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Guess they figured it would be hard for him to have a snit if he was the one who called the shots.
Give him time Chef, give him time.
Wish I was able to watch this game. Looks like Chelsea is doing a hell of a job so far.
Drogba is also doing his occupy-four-defenders-up-top-on-his-own thing.
The match ended the way it did because of cosmic forces. What is the worst thing that can happen to Spurs fans? How about finishing fourth and then watch Chelsea lift the Champions League trophy one week later?
Don't forget world class goal-keeping from Cech. Probably brought his best performance all year. Chelsea was a bit lucky, but they weren't going to win if they weren't. Now we head back to Camp Nou, but we've had success getting tough draws there in the past so I'm a bit encouraged.
I don't think so, Barcelona needs to win with two goals. It should be pretty close, but I think having half of the 1-0 outcomes + all other one goal Barca wins + all the draws + Chelsea wins makes Chelsea slight favorites here. Barcelona has dominated at home, but that has been against domestic resistance, this is another ballgame.
EDIT: Funny thing is that Betfair has Barcelona as huge favorites. Time to put my money where my mouth is.
EDIT2: Done, 200 SEK on Chelsea as finalists at odds 3.1.
I think they're favorites, but maybe not huge favorites. 1-0 isn't terrible to overcome; the question is whether or not Chelsea plays 90 minutes of bus-parking or try to go get that away goal.
Chelsea basically parked the bus at home. Barcelona may make a run at 90% possession at the Camp Nou.
You can always root for them to get crushed by Madrid/Bayern in the final.
I do think Barcelona is much more vulnerable than in years past. That back line is just begging to be exploited and Drogba is pretty much the proto type player a team needs to beat them. In a lot of ways Chelsea has the players to annoy Barcelona. Drogba is perfect. Cole to threaten Alves. Terry, as much as I hate him, is the kind of player you need in that type of match as well. I assume Chelsea will put 10 men behind the ball and try to burn Barcelona over the top on the counter. I think they can do it if they don't get jobbed. If Bendtner wasn't such a clown Arsenal (as badly as they got outplayed) might have won last year despite being a man down. Barcelona has some real cracks, the insane possession time covers a lot of ills. Mascherano is going to really hurt them before its all said and done. I know Pep probably doesn't have much of a choice, but I've always thought playing Masch at centre back was too clever by half. He gets caught out of position too often and his stumpiness is a liability. I don't like Drogba, but I hope he keeps the juvenation going and wreaks unholy havoc.
That's a strange way of spelling 'Bayern'...
Meh. Bayern are just on that Man U, Real, AC Milan, etc. level of evil. Chelsea in their current incarnation and Juventus for all of time will be my bogey teams.
I will never understand the criticism of this (not that you're necessarily critizing, Juan, but even just using the term "parking the bus" seems wrong to me in this context). They entered the 2nd leg, at Camp Nou, up 3-1, and had a man sent off relatively early in the game. Down a man, on the road, with a 2 goal lead. Should they have been trying to score, really?
You're wrong. Bayern are on the Hitler, Stalin, snapper level of evil.
Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing them. Inter did exactly what they had to do.
ursus, Flynn...can I take it that the one poster is speculating that Man U bought Bebe to protect Nani from a doping suspension?
His constant habit of falling to the pitch after every little bump from a Barca player really annoyed me last night. None of the challenges looked overly rough, and a few seconds after lying on the ground he looked as good as new. He really killed the flow of the game in the first half.
I never said he was the most admirable striker! He always looks miserable, too, when he plays. As great as he is, there's nothing romantic about his style or demeanor. Torres when he was good has been my favorite PL striker. These days...I get a kick (no pun intended) out of Grant Holt and Yakubu.
Turnabout is fair play? Every Barcelona player does this, in basically every game. Even when they don't need to(playing a shitty team and already up several goals). I have lost a lot of respect for the Barca players over the last couple of years because of this. Just no idea how you can criticize Drogba like that without mentioning this.
If they just get 1 goal next week, they make Barcelona have to score 3 in order to advance (and basically remove the possibility of PKs); I'd argue that trying to get that goal (and force Barca to net at least 3) is a better play than hoping you'll keep a clean sheet again. If Barcelona have 75% possession again I have a hard time believing they won't get at least one goal.
No love for your boy Cisse?
The underlying hypothesis is that Ferguson bought Bebe to buy Quieroz' silence as to a doping regime that Nani had undertaken with his club.
As for Juan, it would seem to me that Bayern is the perfect German club for a Madrid die hard.
Personally, I am curious to see whether Juan collapses into a singularity of evil.
What's most bizarre to me is that the pieces fit so well even if it's not true. The Bebe transfer was just so weird that it couldn't have been made for actual football reasons. Remember how awful Bebe looked against freaking Crawley Town in the FA Cup? You either have to believe Sir Alex had a moment of insanity in the transfer market or there were ulterior motives there. I suppose there's no chance for any kind of journalistic investigation.
I guess I'm still in denial Spurs didn't buy him despite all of my e-mails to Daniel Levy. The result of my current campaign of harassment will see Leandro playing for Liverpool next year.
This version, which I hadn't heard before, but appears to be relatively well known in Portugal, takes that one step further, casting Mendes in the role of conduit.
The other theory is simpler, and therefore to me more plausible.
BTW, Bebe is currently under indefinite suspension at Besiktas for "indiscipline".
FPH, I think that Juan would also have to adopt Juventus and the Yankees to approach that boundary.
MLS? China? Qatar? UAE? I'm going to guess the Middle East.
Messi excluded, I assume. But I watch Barca pretty regularly and I don't see it. Yes, Busquets goes down with every little tap and he rolls around like a 3 year old. The rest of them don't. Barca players, like CR7, get fouled a LOT. Their style of play makes this inevitable: they waith until the last second to pass and they aren't afraid to dribble the defenders.
Alves and Sanchez do, too. I haven't noticed any excessive diving from Messi, Iniesta or Xavi.
Yes, Busquets is the worst of the bunch, but the last couple years, Xavi and Iniesta and Messi and Pedro and Villa and others have increasingly been getting in on the act. I give Messi some slack because, yes, he gets fouled constantly. I used to watch Barca and be impressed by their play and sort of root for them. Now I root against them constantly because of the diving. As to you not seeing it, take off the blaugrana tinted glasses.
Spaniards seem to think that Raul is off to Qatar. Would be a shame if true.
I think you have me confused with someone else. But if you think Messi dives, I'd have to say that's crazy talk.
I haven't seen Sanchez enough, so I'll take your word for it. Alves has a bad reputation, but I personally haven't seen it.
They're also very small and, when running, it's substantially easier for a smaller player to fall to a slight touch from a larger player than two similar-sized players. It's one of those things that can be hard to differentiate from diving, but is actually fairly common (I used to have this problem in high school where, being 5'5"/5'6" is a serious disadvantage against players half a foot taller/maybe fifty pounds bigger than you. You have to keep your balance perfectly - if you're pushed in your leg even slightly, for the most part it's just really hard to stand upright). Messi's actually really good at staying on his feet, but because of the constant pressure, it *seems* like he falls a lot (Iniesta is another player for whom this is true. He's very compact in the way he runs).
Alexis and Busquets are the only two on the current Barca team who I honestly think like to exaggerate things, and not nearly at the level of many other sides (or a lot of teams in Serie A, to pull out a random example. I actually love Serie A). Honestly, I'm not sure where this "Barcelona are divers" meme has appeared, but the English tabloids sure love it.
You're correct that at high speed, any contact will cause you to fall; however, as a smaller player, you're more likely to *need* your speed, since height or strength are less accessible to you. I'm skipping a step with that connection, but you're taught as a smaller player to rely more on speed, trickery or positioning; and the first two of these makes it easier for you to fall to simple contact.
(of course, this is nowhere near an iff statement, and can apply more closely to someone like Jesus Navas than Andres Iniesta if you want to see it that way)
EDIT: it's exacerbated by the fact that larger players are often stronger, so a challenge from a larger player is often not equal to that of a smaller player, making the "mismatch" more obvious
video compilation of Barca players diving
EDIT: I have watched a lot of Barcelona games the last 4 years and the diving seems to have started to get really bad the last two years. This coincides with Mourinho taking over at RM and I don't think it's a coincidence. The new tendency to dive hasn't been limited to Clasicos though.
I'm not a Barca partisan. In fact, I'm not a partisan of any futbol team. I enjoy watching Barca play, but I enjoy watching most good teams play, whether that's Barca or Real or Man Utd. or Arsenal or even Bayern. I don't lose any sleep if those teams lose, I just want to see fast-paced, skilled, exciting games. Mourinho's tactics sometimes annoy me no less than, say, the behavior of Holland in 2010, but when he's not being an ass Real is a joy to watch.
The same holds true for individual players. I value skill players like Messi, CR7, Ozil, Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Robben, etc. I don't want to see players like DeJong on the pitch at all.
The funny thing is that even the video you linked starts out with Arbeloa standing on Villa's leg. The third clip is Pepe spiking Dani Alves in the shin. How is either of those remotely diving? Those belong in a compilation of Real Madrid's astoundingly dirty play in clasicos since Mourinho took over.
The second clip is a clear Mascherano dive, and I would definitely add him to Busquets and Sanchez as Barcelona players who do dive. I don't remember seeing too many Alves dives. He does do the roll around on the ground in immense pain thing, but it's usually following a legitimate foul.
The idea that Messi dives routinely is bizarre to me. He frequently runs through tackles that would have most players in pretty much any league down on the ground and screaming. Any particular examples you're thinking of?
I do dislike the frequency with which Barcelona players surround the ref and demand cards.
On diving/embellishment in general: Americans often act as if it's the worst thing in the world, and often seem to act as if they're shocked every league doesn't do video review and handout retroactive punishments in order to stamp it out entirely. The English also seemed offended by it, but perhaps are more resigned to it.
Isn't there quite a bit of cultural variation to how much of this is tolerated? I mean to ask about this, and post a quote from Seattle's Alvaro Fernandez, an Uruguyan who was recently given a retroactive fine for embellishment:
I also agree that Real has become a lot chippier since Mourinho came on board.
The one criticism from the jealous that I buy into is that they get away with a lot of fouls because when they foul it's pressing high up the field, not on defense.
This requires a (mostly) case by case response:
Tokyo Giants: C'mon who wouldn't root for the Ham Fighters? Even if calling them that is inaccurate.
Collingwood: I barrack for Hawthorn and Sydney
Lakers: My NBA team is the Spurs
Maple Leafs: I like the Habs
Tiger: Not after his revelations
Cowboys: Not an NFL fan
Man United: One of my English favourites I must admit, but in European competitions I'm more generally an Anglophile
Italy: Happily root for them when they are playing Brazil or Argentina.
Soviet Hockey: Don't know that much about international hockey.
Not into collegiate sports.
Djurgardens: I think fondly of them thanks to a good run in Football Manager. I don't think we're talking about the football team here, though.
Cadel Evans: How about Lance Armstrong?
I guess you can add Ferrari to the list ("Fernando is faster than you" and all that), but I actually go against them.
Carry on.
Alves has done similar things trying to draw cards on opponents. As Shooty mentioned, Sanchez is another guilty party. Masch has less opportunity but isn't above that sort of thing. Xavi is borderline but generally is looking to set people up and isn't as often in a position to dive. It hasn't been good for Fabegras, he appears to have been influenced as well. As someone mentioned upthread, I have only noticed it to a higher degree the past two seasons. Perhaps it is due to Madrid's tactics as someone suggested. I don't know, but I do know that the notion that Barcelona, poor noble Barcelona, dives because they are short... Short guys have a low center of gravity. I forget which game it was (I think it was one of the Leverkusen matches) watch what happened when the comparatively giant Leverkusen defender rode Messi down the field like a scooter. He couldn't knock him off the ball. The game plays that way. Sure if you lower your shoulder and barge a smaller man you can knock him off the ball, but even Howard Webb in the mezzanine can spot that kind of play. Its mainly about gravity and lower body strength. Was Barry Sanders easy to knock off balance? Its a similar principle to running backs.
I was inclined to like Barcelona a few years ago because Messi seemed like a decent dude and one of the most amazing players I've ever seen in any sport. That's degenerated over time based on their actions on the field. Its not like I dislike them beating Man U like a drum in the Champions League (quite the opposite) I just don't like the histrionics. They should be above that kind of stuff. As mentioned up thread, they do that crap all the time, diving and crying and calling for cards, even in games where they are ahead by a substantial margin. I hope they get beat, but I think they go through on a couple of cheap pens.
edit: for typo
The only way I can see Alves' reaction as a dive is if he has the reflexes of a mongoose.* It sure looks to me like he was caught.
*A mongoose can, it's said, dodge a striking snake.
As for Barcelona, aside from the histrionics mentioned above some of the refereeing decisions in their favour have to be seen to be believed (although they are by no means alone in that). I think they will beat Chelsea fair and square but would not be surprised if at least one terrible refereeing decision plays a part in the victory.
It was the Leverkusen game. Doesn't that play rather serve as evidence against the assertion that Messi dives?
Messi doesn't dive.
Further, he did not need to have the reaction of a mongoose, because he could see the raised leg coming, and his foot made contact with the ball which might have started his spinning motion (it is hard to tell exactly)
I actually like Barcalelona, but it's people like you who turn me off from the team. Can't you see that you are enabling this behavior?
Are you at least going to take back your agreement that the video shows Pepe spiking Alvez on the shin?
It looks to you like he was caught . LOFL you are as incorrigible as Busquets. Watch the video I posted.
Well at least we know now why you like Barca. Kindred spirits.
The football team isn't among the heavyweights, though they have had their moments, try Malmö FF or IFK Göteborg for that.
The hockey team used to be good, but they were relegated just this year* (after starting the season as one of the favorites). They certainly haven't been anything like Real for several decades, there's a kind of interregnum now, Färjestad is probably the most consistent top (and evil) team.
*) And it's damn hard to get relegated in Swedish hockey.
Hee! I still like the big lug, or, more accurately, I like that he fits my stereotype of the classic English striker.
Man, nothing like a diving thread to bring the lurkers out. I can't wait for the Euros to watch the Italians remind us all how much of an art diving can be.
and, subsequently, for the English announcers to act all sanctimonious about it, as if their dear old English boys would never think of doing such a thing.
1. Red cards for blatant dives, especially in the Area. Think Krasic last year kinda dives.
2. Fair Play rewards for refusals to fall at contact in the Area. As I understand literally ZERO about "Fair Play" I'll just throw this out unsubstantiated...it could already be in the formula.
3. Permission and encouragement to kick CR7 in the crotch whenever he does that stupid step-over thing repeatedly, whether in the Area or not. Oh..wait, that would be subjective and biased. Sorry.
4. PK option for raping/pillaging "professional" fouls committed just prior to an attacker reaching the Area.
5. A rethinking of the Area. There are points currently inside it that are too far away in many positional contexts to be truly dangerous. Things like levels of "dangerousness" should be taken into account...and yes I realize the idea of Howard Webb having such arbitrary control is heinous.
Now back to the "but Country/Club X is the worst at diving!!!!1!!!!11! But before I go, Franck, no problem here..I've always wanted to punch Arjen Robben, too. Only problem is, I'd much rather punch you, Franck, if I had only one punch to give.
Does anyone like Arjen Robben?
edit: Oh, and I can confidently say on the other side of the scale, that the Japanese hardly dive at all which makes them fun to watch. I wonder if that will change as their players play more and more for big Euro clubs, though.
Part of the disagreement may be on terminology. I separate "dive" and "embellish". I don't like either one, but I think true dives -- that is, player not actually touched or touched too lightly to fall -- are pretty rare. Embellishment is a bigger problem, but it's hardly unique to given players like Busquets and certainly not to entire teams.
Fluminense (Brazil) vs. Internacional (Brazil)
Union Espanola (Chile) vs. Boca Juniors (Argentina)
Universidad de Chile (Chile) vs. Deportivo Quito (Ecuador)
Libertad (Paraguay) vs. Cruz Azul (Mexico)
Corinthians (Brazil) vs. Emelec (Ecuador)
Lanus (Argentina) vs. Vasco de Gama (Brazil)
Santos (Brazil) vs. Bolivar (Bolivia)
Velez Sarsfield (Argentina) vs. Atletico Nacional (Colombia)
Well there's an oxymoron.
You're overthinking it. All they need to do is have a panel that awards yellow cards for each instance of diving after the match. That would cut down diving by >90%.
Also, just realized that Bayern has an ugly quotient close to Liverpool's.
I love that Real Madrid didn't want to sign Ronaldinho because he was too ugly to market, even if the story is apocryphal.
"Beckham cherishes his family, and Japanese women like a man who takes good care of his wife and children," he said. "Japanese people also tend to admire British traditional culture, and books related to Britain sell well in the Japanese market.Then there are his looks. "They are quite acceptable to Japanese people," Mr Kiminami said. "It is much easier for Japanese women to accept his moderately sexy appearance than Italian soccer player Francesco Totti, who is too sexy for Japanese women."
I'm too sexy for Milan
Too sexy for Milan New York and Japan
There were ceratinly many scenarios there were yellows (at least) were in order, and a player like the aforementioned Alvaro Fernandez would have eaten enough grass to feed a herd of cattle. Which is interesting, as I believe Uruguay borders Argentina, they can't be THAT different culturally vis a vis embellishment...
EDIT: Before I step into a culture war regarding Uruguay and Argentina, I was referring to the Fernandez quote above where he talks about "South America" generally.
Yes
It's would be a small plus for Newcastle as they wouldn't have to waste time on the Europa League.
The big loser would be... ah, just read post #505.
But seriously, missing out on Europa League is no big deal. Losing a Champions League slot is a disaster.
Of course I get what you're saying, and I believe that's true for the Big Four, and probably the same for Spurs/City. Is Newcastle - or Everton, say - in the same boat? I'm sure we've had this discussion before, I just don't remember the details... what do EPL clubs get from a couple of rounds worth of Europa, and does it compare to their EPL swag?
If it were, say, newly promoted Swansea, would they rather get the Euro slot, or have less fixture congestion? If there's any correlation to Europa newbies getting relegated due to exhaustion, or whatever, then yeah, why bother...
Europa League money is considerably less than that of the Champions League. Swiss Ramble usually makes it a point of emphasis for teams who are on that Europa League/Champions League border. I will look for a post of his to confirm, but I seem to remember that a team could go all the way through and win the Europa League and still not get half as much $$$ (from TV and gate) as a team that gets knocked out of the group stages of the CL.
EDIT: Cleaned up my sloppy writing.
For a lower/middle table club like Swansea, a Europa League run would result in a non-insignificant amount of money, but it comes with a rather large caveat. If playing in the Europa League put a strain on their squad and resulted in a relegation battle, they'd almost certainly be better off punting the competition, as getting relegated would be a much bigger financial hit than the gain from an extended Europa League run (even with the recently-instituted parachute payments).
I do. He's actually very well liked in Holland as he's a surprisingly average bloke. He's from a small town, played for his local club, married his childhood sweetheart and lives a pretty low-key lifestyle. The Dutch really like players they can relate to - Kuyt is the most popular player in Holland as he's basically the epitome of average Dutch boy (working class, dad was a sea captain, seems to be photographed stuffing herring down his face all the time). Willem van Hanegem, who was a working class guy whose dad died in a gunfight with the Germans, is even more popular than Cruyff in Holland, though van Hanegem, unlike Kuyt, was a monstrously talented, classy player.
On the other hand, the long knives will be out for Sneijder if he has a bad Euro 2012 as he married a proper Dutch WAG named Yolanthe Cabau who appeared in the Dutch version of Footballers' Wives, is spending a lot of his time recently partying with Afrojack and Paris Hilton, and
appears to be hiding ######### in the ads for the new Oranje shirt.
Me too. I dig the fact he looks 50 but is actually less than 30.
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