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Monday, April 02, 2012

OT: The Soccer Thread: April 2012

Title Run-In’s across the Continent, Champions League Semi-Finals, FA Cup Semi-Finals, and the two month-mark to the start of Euro 2012.

All this—and more—in April!

RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 02, 2012 at 12:30 PM | 1045 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

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   801. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:09 PM (#4115979)
As a neutral I am enjoying how hard Bayern are going after this rather than trying to ride it out after their away goal.
   802. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:22 PM (#4116001)
I think Bayern have been the slightly better team so far, but Mourinho has way more firepower on the bench. Wonder if that makes the difference in the end.
   803. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4116014)
So tense right now...
   804. PepTech Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:42 PM (#4116031)
Before anyone has to ask:

Article 8
Away goals and extra time under the knockout system


8.01 For matches played under the knockout system, if the two teams involved in
a tie score the same number of goals over the two legs, the team which
scores more away goals qualifies for the next stage. If this procedure does
not produce a result, i.e. if both teams score the same number of goals at
home and away, two 15-minute periods of extra time are played at the end of
the second leg. If, during extra time, both teams score the same number of
goals, away goals count double (i.e. the visiting club qualifies).
If no goals are
scored during extra time, kicks from the penalty mark (Article 17) determine
which club qualifies for the next stage.
   805. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4116039)
How has Ribery not been booked by now?
   806. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4116040)
PepTech - Thanks for 804, you read my mind.
   807. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4116045)
I enjoyed this classic bit of shtick from the Guardian MBM:
So, a penalty shoot-out - who would you fancy? The Galactico superstars playing at home in front of their own fans or the Germans? It's a no-brainer, surely? The Germans every time.
   808. Arnett Mead (Arjun) Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4116048)
If Bayern are through, Badstuber, Alaba and Gustavo will be out - sort of hoping this happens, but Boateng and Lahm (or Schweinsteiger) also get yellows in the next bit of extra time, just to make the final especially interesting.
   809. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4116052)
Away goals in extra time is home field disadvantage.
   810. PepTech Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4116053)
@808 Don't forget Muller...
   811. Arnett Mead (Arjun) Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4116055)
810: Or Toni Kroos, I suppose. :p
   812. Swedish Chef Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4116062)
So it would be Bayern Reserves vs Chelsea Reserves in the final...
   813. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4116074)
Bad penalty from Ronaldo
   814. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4116075)
hell of a save.
   815. Arnett Mead (Arjun) Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:19 PM (#4116079)
Back-to-back former World Footballers of the Year miss penalties. Can't think that happens every day.
   816. Swedish Chef Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4116081)
Come on, I could do better!
   817. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:21 PM (#4116082)
Oh Sergio
   818. ursus arctos Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4116089)
Sorry, FPH.
   819. Swedish Chef Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4116091)
I bet these results will result in intense soul searching at the Spanish giants. And a determination to spend more money to build even more ridiculous teams.
   820. Swedish Chef Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4116095)
Competing in the Champions League final at Allianz Arena May 19th:

Bayern München B vs Chelsea FC B!!!
   821. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:32 PM (#4116106)
I don't think Gustavo is much of a loss for Bayern. Alaba and Badstuber will be missed though. Are Breno and Van Buyten still injured?
   822. PepTech Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4116108)
Isn't there some kind of sponsorship thing going on? I read somewhere Allianz was aced out in favor of something called "Fußball-Arena München".

And don't worry, Spain, you still have Europa. Romania is sorta like Germany, if you squint...
   823. Arnett Mead (Arjun) Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4116115)
I don't think Gustavo is much of a loss for Bayern. Alaba and Badstuber will be missed though. Are Breno and Van Buyten still injured?

I think so. At the very least, they had Diego Contento on the bench for tonight. Alaba'll be replaced by Rafinha most likely (with Lahm moving to the other side) and they have plenty of options in the middle (Muller, Tymoshchuk, maybe Danijel Pranjic, depending on how offensively they want to play. Kroos has played the Schweinsteiger role a lot this season, so they could just have easily push him back and throw Muller on the pitch). Badstuber will be more difficult to replace (especially going up against Didier Drogba, the way he's playing now).
   824. ursus arctos Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4116119)
822, I hadn't heard that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Happened to every German ground during the World Cup.
   825. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 25, 2012 at 06:07 PM (#4116163)
I shudder for Bayern fans if Van Buyten has to go up against an in-form Drogba.
   826. mswift Posted: April 25, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4116176)
[822] According to the UEFA website, the stadium will be called Fussball Arena München.
   827. PepTech Posted: April 25, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4116178)
I say Fußball, you say Fussball... ;)
   828. Swedish Chef Posted: April 25, 2012 at 06:30 PM (#4116187)
I don't see the point of playing UEFA's silly games. Their only purpose is to make some marketdroids in Nyon happy.
   829. ursus arctos Posted: April 25, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4116189)
And to extract as much money as possible from sponsors.

No one who is not contractually obligated to do so actually refers to the stadia using their neutered names.
   830. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 25, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4116212)
I'm thinking of adopting Reading for next season.
   831. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: April 25, 2012 at 07:05 PM (#4116214)
If Chelsea wins the Champions League, UEFA will not allow John Terry to lift the trophy.
   832. ursus arctos Posted: April 25, 2012 at 07:06 PM (#4116215)
How do you feel about Biscuits?

Their traditional nickname is the Biscuitmen, because Reading was the cookie capital of England.

Visual evidence.
   833. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 25, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4116225)
I love biscuits! Especially with sausage gravy. mmm...

   834. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 25, 2012 at 07:37 PM (#4116235)
Just saw it on the replay, wow was Sergio Ramos' penalty horrible.
   835. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 25, 2012 at 07:45 PM (#4116246)
I love biscuits! Especially with sausage gravy. mmm...


Not quite the same. "Biscuits" in England are "cookies" in America.
   836. PepTech Posted: April 25, 2012 at 08:08 PM (#4116267)
Nothing wrong with sausage gravy over cookies, either.

And yes, Ramos stunk. Did Ronaldo and Kaka take the same shot, or was that a replay?
   837. Richard Posted: April 25, 2012 at 08:54 PM (#4116311)
If Chelsea wins the Champions League, UEFA will not allow John Terry to lift the trophy.

I bet he wears his Captain's armband all night anyway...
   838. Mefisto Posted: April 25, 2012 at 09:16 PM (#4116331)
Back-to-back former World Footballers of the Year miss penalties. Can't think that happens every day.


And Messi missed yesterday.
   839. J. Sosa Posted: April 25, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4116357)
I can't believe I might have to root for Bayern in the final. I know this is soccer, therefore, evil always wins(its the lesson I learned earliest when starting to follow club football) but rooting for Bayern in the final would be a new low for me.

Although perhaps not, LFC has made me really uncomfortable this year. Which is more evil, rooting for Bayern in the CL final or supporting a club that did a slow dance with racism? When it comes to soccer I am fickle, but in my defense I will say that Newcastle wears like an old sweater and it's been much more fun rooting for well scouted francophone Africans than a club that looks like a skinhead convention on the pitch.
   840. Juan V Posted: April 25, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4116367)
Some insight that came to me when Sergio's penalty ball struck me in the head: In a competition like the Champions League, being a consistent semifinalist is probably as good as you can plan for. Still, this was as good an opportunity as any to lift the trophy, so I am naturally a bit disappointed.

Anyway, opportunities will come.
   841. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: April 25, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4116387)
Hey, Liverpool only has three skinheads, and one of them is a Spaniard.
   842. Juan V Posted: April 25, 2012 at 10:16 PM (#4116395)
Also, we have an English team traveling to Germany to play a final against a German team. Imagine the tabloids if Chelsea wins.
   843. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: April 25, 2012 at 10:21 PM (#4116399)
I'm thinking of adopting Reading for next season.

Can't be worse than being a fan of the baseball Royals.
   844. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 25, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4116463)
Also, we have an English team traveling to Germany to play a final against a German team. Imagine the tabloids if Chelsea wins.



Ooh, that could be fun.
   845. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 25, 2012 at 11:27 PM (#4116482)
Liverpool has four - Shelvey, Spearing, Skrtel and Reina!
   846. Spivey Posted: April 25, 2012 at 11:46 PM (#4116551)
Bayern outplayed Real on the road. A hell of a performance. Mario Gomez didn't score but he was creating so much havoc and had a lot of really good shots. I think he's the best player on Bayern and one of the 10 best players in the world. I think Chelsea are missing more of their key players. Bayern I think will win possession pretty easily, and I like them as a definite favorite.
   847. Richard Posted: April 26, 2012 at 12:16 AM (#4116572)
English teams vs German teams in CL Finals:

1975 - Bayern beat Leeds 2-0
1977 - Liverpool beat Monchengladbach
1980 - Nottm Forest beat Hamburg
1982 - Aston Villa beat Bayern
1999 - Man Utd beat Bayern

4-1 England so far, though all the games were on neutral territory.
   848. Textbook Editor Posted: April 26, 2012 at 12:39 AM (#4116585)
If Chelsea wins the Champions League, UEFA will not allow John Terry to lift the trophy.


Q: If Terry's not named to the team (and he can't be since he's suspended), then he doesn't get a winner's medal, right? Does only the starting XI + the named subs get medals? How does that work?


   849. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 26, 2012 at 12:50 AM (#4116591)
Q: If Terry's not named to the team (and he can't be since he's suspended), then he doesn't get a winner's medal, right? Does only the starting XI + the named subs get medals? How does that work?


Yes, Terry can still get a medal according to this article.

Terry would be entitled to one of the 30 medals awarded to the teams – gold to the winners, silver to the runners-up – as would Branislav Ivanovic, Raul Meireles and Ramires, who are also suspended after picking up their third cautions of the competition at Camp Nou.

   850. Textbook Editor Posted: April 26, 2012 at 12:53 AM (#4116592)
Thanks, vortex. I really had no idea how the whole medal thing worked.
   851. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 26, 2012 at 02:02 AM (#4116606)
How do you feel about Biscuits?

I thought he had a pretty good game actually. Probably their best player on Tuesday.
   852. Flynn Posted: April 26, 2012 at 04:58 AM (#4116618)
It could easily be England 5, Germany 0 in European Cup finals. Bayern-Leeds in 1975 is one of the more infamous refereeing performances in European football history with the referee denying Leeds two penalties and a goal very shadily disallowed for passive offside (which had not been given by either the referee nor the linesman until an appeal from Beckenbauer). That said, Leeds should have had two players sent off. Terry Yorath brutally tackled Bjorn Andersson and Allan Gray ended Uli Hoeness's career with another hard foul.

Supposedly the referee's panel rated the ref's performance 2/20.
   853. Richard Posted: April 26, 2012 at 06:06 AM (#4116629)
Yes, but Leeds fans removed any sympathy anyone might have had for them (which would have been limited in any event given the team's reputation at the time) by ripping the seats out of the stand they were sitting in at the Parc des Princes.
   854. Textbook Editor Posted: April 26, 2012 at 07:57 AM (#4116635)
BTF acting a bit goofy today. This is page 9 and the comments start at #10. Page 8's comments start at #9, and the Sidebar has disappeared. The chimp must be very mad this morning.
   855. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 26, 2012 at 09:10 AM (#4116666)
1975 - Bayern beat Leeds 2-0
1977 - Liverpool beat Monchengladbach
1980 - Nottm Forest beat Hamburg
1982 - Aston Villa beat Bayern
1999 - Man Utd beat Bayern


As one with little historical knowledge of the sport I see stuff like this and I can imagine how someone must feel when they hear that in the 70s the Orioles and Royals were arguably the two most respected teams in MLB. Leeds? Really?
   856. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 26, 2012 at 09:11 AM (#4116667)
The chimp must be very mad this morning.


The chimp isn't mad, he's busy. The Red Sox are trying him out as a reliever.
   857. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 26, 2012 at 10:02 AM (#4116704)
As one with little historical knowledge of the sport I see stuff like this and I can imagine how someone must feel when they hear that in the 70s the Orioles and Royals were arguably the two most respected teams in MLB. Leeds? Really?

Until Leeds basically went bankrupt, they were a very formidable team, with a solid reputation. Not equal to the top tier juggernauts like ManU/Liverpool, but probably around the level that Tottenham are now. They reached the CL semi-finals as recently as 2001...
   858. Borussia, Du bist so wunderschön! (Mark Edward) Posted: April 26, 2012 at 10:20 AM (#4116719)

The best thing about yesterday's result is I now have a team to actively root against in the final! The 2011 final was a bit boring because I didn't really have a rooting interest.

So, go Chelsea (if nothing else, they're Damon Albarn's favorite team)!
   859. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 26, 2012 at 10:42 AM (#4116732)
The best thing about yesterday's result is I now have a team to actively root against in the final!

The best thing about getting ass raped, is that I now have AIDS!
   860. ursus arctos Posted: April 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM (#4116749)
   861. Flynn Posted: April 26, 2012 at 11:21 AM (#4116768)
As one with little historical knowledge of the sport I see stuff like this and I can imagine how someone must feel when they hear that in the 70s the Orioles and Royals were arguably the two most respected teams in MLB. Leeds? Really?


Check out who won the European Cup in 1979. It'll blow your mind, baby.
   862. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 26, 2012 at 11:24 AM (#4116771)
Mersey Shore. Coming this Fall on Fox!

Hard as hell!
   863. Ron J Posted: April 26, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4116774)
So it would be Bayern Reserves vs Chelsea Reserves in the final...


More like Chelsea (more or less) regular attack versus Bayern reserve defenders and vice-versa.

Given how well Chelsea played at Man U down to 10 (when they went to a back 3) as well as against RM, maybe they should ...
   864. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 26, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4116778)
Check out who won the European Cup in 1979. It'll blow your mind, baby.

I find it 100x more amazing that Malmö reached the final. Then again, I already knew about Forest...
And looking over the teams in that year, I now really want a Progrès Niedercorn shirt. That's just an awesome name, I don't care that they lost 12-0 to Real on aggregate! Black & yellow too!
   865. Borussia, Du bist so wunderschön! (Mark Edward) Posted: April 26, 2012 at 11:50 AM (#4116790)

I watched The Damned United just as I was getting into soccer a few years back. At one point in the film, there's a montage of a league table with Derby County jumping over teams to the top of the first division. So weird to see Huddersfield Town, Southamption Coventry City, & Ipswitch Town (Leeds & Derby County too) in that first division table.
   866. ursus arctos Posted: April 26, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4116879)
So, the "it looks increasingly likely that Pep will step down" of an hour or so ago is now "multiple outlets are reporting that he's gone".

Official word will come at a press conference with Rosell tomorrow morning in Barcelona.

The current hot names in Spain are Bielsa, Laurent Blanc (who was at the Camp Nou on Tuesday) and Ernesto Valverde (who recently left Olympiakos for "family reasons").
   867. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 26, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4116891)
At one point in the film, there's a montage of a league table with Derby County jumping over teams to the top of the first division. So weird to see Huddersfield Town, Southamption Coventry City, & Ipswitch Town (Leeds & Derby County too) in that first division table.


Ipswich Town the early 1960s pulled off an amazing feat. They won Division Three in 1957, then won the Second Division in 1961. In their first season in Division One, they won the League, a feat no-one else has ever accomplished. In 1963 Alf Ramsey resigned as manager to take over the national side, and the team collapsed. Two years after winning the League, they got relegated.
   868. Swedish Chef Posted: April 26, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4116895)
Pep should go get himself a national team to manage for a couple of years, it's well-paid with a relaxing schedule.
   869. Mefisto Posted: April 26, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4116922)
That's a real shame if it's true about Pep.
   870. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: April 26, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4117007)
1979 European Cup quarterfinalists, ranked by current UEFA coefficient

50 Glasgow Rangers
92 Austria Wien
113 Wisla Kraków
186 Grasshopper Club Zürich
216 Malmö FF
N/A 1.FC Köln (currently 10th in Bundesliga)
N/A Nottingham Forest (currently 20th in Football League Championship)
N/A Dynamo Dresden (currently 9th in Bundesliga 2)


   871. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: April 26, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4117063)
No pre-game handshake for Chelsea-QPR because of John Terry. Great week for him.
   872. puck Posted: April 26, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4117126)
Do you guys watch the CL games live (if you're in the States)? I had to record it, and work late, but still had internet access, so I really had to fight the habit to go to sports news sites and such so as not to see the score. As soccer gains acceptance here, it's getting harder to avoid scores.

I confess I was rooting for Real Madrid mostly because I wanted Mourinho to get another title. It's like rooting for super-evil, I know. But if I don't have a more natural attachment to a team involved, I find myself rooting for people going to exemplary achievements. Usually.

Despite the first half goal (and PK), does Ronaldo deserve flack for not being more of an influence in the 2nd half? (I know he'll receive the flack, but is it warranted.) A star can only influence a match so much, but it seems like he tired (there was that odd stumble when he uncharacteristically couldn't get the ball out from under his feet).
   873. puck Posted: April 26, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4117130)
Re: Pep. Is this mostly voluntary? There must be a lot of pressure to have to win.

I wonder how much their style of play would change without him. I assume the passing and possession style are a club-wide thing, but perhaps certain emphases would be different? Maybe not as much pressing, or not quite so much passing? Could there be an overreaction to being unable to crack Chelsea's D in the 2nd half and see them playing big target men, etc?
   874. Swedish Chef Posted: April 26, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4117136)
Could there be an overreaction to being unable to crack Chelsea's D in the 2nd half and see them playing big target men, etc?

They already tried to create a tactical plan B with the purchase of Zlatan Ibrahimovic from Inter. That was a financial disaster, I think the net result was that they paid 40 million euros for the privilege of sending Etoo to Italy. It didn't work out very well on the field either.
   875. puck Posted: April 26, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4117137)
Oh, and Mexico has now won 7 straight continental club championships. Supposedly that's the most any federation has done. Monterrey beat Morelia, Pumas and Santos Laguna in knockouts to win.
   876. Textbook Editor Posted: April 26, 2012 at 07:30 PM (#4117168)
So, the "it looks increasingly likely that Pep will step down" of an hour or so ago is now "multiple outlets are reporting that he's gone".

Official word will come at a press conference with Rosell tomorrow morning in Barcelona.


If true, I'll dream a little dream that Daniel Levy lets Redknapp go for nothing and hired Pep. 0% chance of happening, I know, but it's a nice dream.

If he's out there to be gotten, regardless of Chelsea's CL final result, won't they just throw a blank contract at the guy and say "You fill in the numbers, we'll countersign when you're done"?
   877. ursus arctos Posted: April 26, 2012 at 07:32 PM (#4117169)
Re: Pep.

It is completely voluntary. If he leaves in 12 hours (and I expect he will), it's because he feels that he needs to take a break.

I'd be very, very surprised if he goes anywhere over the summer.
   878. Juan V Posted: April 26, 2012 at 07:43 PM (#4117174)
I really, really, really, really, really, really hope they don't get Bielsa. Don't want to root against him.
   879. Mefisto Posted: April 26, 2012 at 08:28 PM (#4117188)
does Ronaldo deserve flack for not being more of an influence in the 2nd half? (I know he'll receive the flack, but is it warranted.)


Michael Cox is of the view that both coaches told their teams to play on the counter-attack in the second half and in overtime. That meant neither team had any real opportunities.

I record the games and watch them in the evening. I have the same problem you do trying to avoid the scores.

Could there be an overreaction to being unable to crack Chelsea's D in the 2nd half and see them playing big target men, etc?


I kind of doubt it, though I could see somebody like Llorente coming if they named Bielsa as Pep's replacement.

It's sad, really, how much pressure there must be on even the most successful coaches. I mean, the difference in the semi-finals was that Barca hit the woodwork 5 times (off memory) and an excellent goalkeeper made about 10 fine saves. If even a single one of those had gone in, Barca would almost certainly be in the final.

Maybe Pep is just stressed out and would have needed a break anyway. If so, that makes the longevity of SAF and Wenger all the more remarkable.
   880. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 26, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4117227)


Not quite the same. "Biscuits" in England are "cookies" in America.


Sorry if it really seems like I'm that dumb. I was making a "dumb American" joke. I'm actually a professor of British Literature. Go Reading, too! Come on you biscuitmen!
   881. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 26, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4117237)
Sorry if it really seems like I'm that dumb. I was making a "dumb American" joke. I'm actually a professor of British Literature. Go Reading, too! Come on you biscuitmen!


Sorry - no disrespect intended.
   882. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: April 26, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4117259)
Yeah, I'm also someone who has to avoid (weekday) scores all day long and watch the game(s) later that night. Avoiding this thread and sites like, say, The Guardian and Soccer by Ives is easy enough; avoiding Twitter is a bit more difficult. Even so, I managed to avoid scores for both CL games this week, as well as Roma/Fiorentina and Juve/Cesena.

I root for Mourinho, too, puck. Mostly because of this WWE promo(*). Actually, I think Mourinho would make a great Raw General Manager.

(*) Come on, his kids wearing DX gear? How adorable is that?
   883. Ron J Posted: April 27, 2012 at 12:28 AM (#4117312)
Could there be an overreaction to being unable to crack Chelsea's D in the 2nd half and see them playing big target men, etc?


Big Sam to Barca!

Don't know how much fun it would be to watch the game, but I'd pay money to watch the first training session.
   884. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 27, 2012 at 12:36 AM (#4117314)
Big Sam to Barca!

Don't know how much fun it would be to watch the game, but I'd pay money to watch the first training session.


Nah. How could anyone be happy in Barcelona when they've seen Blackpool, Blackburn, and Preston?
   885. Dale Sams Posted: April 27, 2012 at 01:22 AM (#4117325)
Leeds? Really?


MUCH more recently then 1975, Leeds were a top-notch, dangerous (in terms of being thugs as well as winning) team.
   886. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 27, 2012 at 05:03 AM (#4117346)
Santos Laguna destroyed both Toronto FC and Seattle Sounders in the home leg...that was after the Mls sides had played well at home. MLS teams just suck in Mexico.
   887. Richard Posted: April 27, 2012 at 05:27 AM (#4117348)
MUCH more recently then 1975, Leeds were a top-notch, dangerous (in terms of being thugs as well as winning) team.

There are two period when Leeds were really good:

1964 to 1975 - 2 league titles, 1 FA Cup, 1 League Cup, 2 Fairs Cups (predecessor to the Europa League), defeat in 5 other major finals and league runners up on several other occasions. A great but flawed team, mixing incredible skill and stamina with dirty play and gamesmanship and choking at the final hurdle. Widely disliked by fans of other teams.

1992 to 2002 - 1 league title, Champions League participation, several qualifications for Europe, and at least mid table in other seasons. Also widely disliked by fans of other teams, but more for the reputation of their supporters this time around, as they did not cover themselves with glory between the early 1970's and 1990.
   888. Flynn Posted: April 27, 2012 at 09:14 AM (#4117394)
2008 to 2012 - still in the Championship, widely disliked for their fans and being owned by Ken Bates.
   889. Juan V Posted: April 27, 2012 at 09:43 AM (#4117425)
Tito Vilanova promoted to the top job to replace Pep. I mentally called it.
   890. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 27, 2012 at 09:48 AM (#4117430)
Could there be an overreaction to being unable to crack Chelsea's D in the 2nd half and see them playing big target men, etc?

They already tried to create a tactical plan B with the purchase of Zlatan Ibrahimovic from Inter. That was a financial disaster, I think the net result was that they paid 40 million euros for the privilege of sending Etoo to Italy. It didn't work out very well on the field either.
Somebody on the Guardian podcast - I think it was Michael Cox - argued that Barca learned the wrong lesson from the Ibrahimovic saga. If you're going to spend a small country's GDP for a world-class striker, he has to be Plan A. He's not going to settle for being the first man off the bench, and you're wasting him if he's sitting through big games. What Barca should have done was acquire a target man / goal-scorer of lesser quality, who is happy to be Plan B. Cox made the comparison to Dimitar Berbatov, who has been happy to be the Plan B striker off the bench for United.
   891. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 27, 2012 at 09:54 AM (#4117440)
If you're going to spend a small country's GDP for a world-class striker, he has to be Plan A. He's not going to settle for being the first man off the bench, and you're wasting him if he's sitting through big games. What Barca should have done was acquire a target man / goal-scorer of lesser quality, who is happy to be Plan B. Cox made the comparison to Dimitar Berbatov

... who also cost ManU the GDP of a small country.
   892. Juan V Posted: April 27, 2012 at 10:22 AM (#4117479)
I guess the idea behind Ibrahimovic is that he had the broad skills to be Plans A and B at the same time. The problems were that, until this season at least, he had trouble performing against the elite clubs, and also they'd want the Plan A striker to be somewhat more mobile.
   893. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: April 27, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4117483)
What Barca should have done was acquire a target man / goal-scorer of lesser quality, who is happy to be Plan B.

"There's only one Andy Carroll!"
   894. puck Posted: April 27, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4117590)
and also they'd want the Plan A striker to be somewhat more mobile.


It's hard to picture him being part of their pressing, even just from the pov of making the effort. He's done some amazing things for Milan this year, though.
   895. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: April 27, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4117941)
Shooty is not going to be happy. They still have a game in hand, so they're probably still fine, but automatic promotion looks slightly more precarious.
   896. Swedish Chef Posted: April 27, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4117990)
I guess the idea behind Ibrahimovic is that he had the broad skills to be Plans A and B at the same time.

Yeah, that was the catch, he needed to slot into their normal game too, he wasn't bought as a complementary player or anything like that. It also didn't help that Zlatan semi-publicly* disdained the way the players in Barcelona checked their egos at the door. Pep certainly wasn't as good as Mourinho at stroking Zlatan's ego, and he probably didn't care for nannying such a high-maintenance player when he had a perfectly good team without him.

*) And later publicly put it in his** book. Where he after 300 pages about how wonderful he is and how he made everybody dance to his pipe, he criticized Freddie Ljungberg for being a diva. Not much for irony, that Zlatan.

**) Well, it was ghostwritten, but aren't they all?
   897. Obi One Kenobi Nil Posted: April 27, 2012 at 06:44 PM (#4118029)
They already tried to create a tactical plan B with the purchase of Zlatan Ibrahimovic from Inter. That was a financial disaster, I think the net result was that they paid 40 million euros for the privilege of sending Etoo to Italy. It didn't work out very well on the field either.


Yeah. The problem is that the "Plan B" guy also has to be able to fit into "Plan A" so they can rotate without disruption. Difficult.

Was Pep going voluntary


For sure. He's been on the verge of walking out for the last two summers and said from the very start he would probably quit sooner rather than later. He also looks like death warmed over.

Yeah, that was the catch, he needed to slot into their normal game too, he wasn't bought as a complementary player or anything like that. It also didn't help that Zlatan semi-publicly* disdained the way the players in Barcelona checked their egos at the door. Pep certainly wasn't as good as Mourinho at stroking Zlatan's ego, and he probably didn't care for nannying such a high-maintenance player when he had a perfectly good team without him.


Ibra also started well at Barcelona and looked like he would fit in. Then got injured, came back, got a red card, then went on an epic streak of not scoring until Messi gave him a pity penalty. Then his agent called Guardiola mentally ill and that was that.
   898. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 27, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4118083)
Ibra also started well at Barcelona and looked like he would fit in. Then got injured, came back, got a red card, then went on an epic streak of not scoring until Messi gave him a pity penalty. Then his agent called Guardiola mentally ill and that was that.


There is a level of insanity to the off field shenanigans in soccer that doesn't exist in any other sport. As crazy as Boras is he has never called a manger mentally ill (I don't think).
   899. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:44 AM (#4118350)
More news that is not going to make Shooty happy. Bale wants to leave Spurs if they fail to make the CL: "I think everybody always wants to test themselves against the best players in the world. We have to wait and see what happens. Obviously if we don't [qualify for Champions League], we'll have to sit down and discuss and see what's best for myself."
   900. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:39 AM (#4118382)
Wigan is in some kind of form right now, 3-0 up on Newcastle.

Swansea-Wolves is fun in a "defense?" sort of way. Everton dominating Fulham too.
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