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Monday, April 02, 2012

OT: The Soccer Thread: April 2012

Title Run-In’s across the Continent, Champions League Semi-Finals, FA Cup Semi-Finals, and the two month-mark to the start of Euro 2012.

All this—and more—in April!

RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 02, 2012 at 12:30 PM | 1045 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

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   901. Swedish Chef Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4118391)
There is a level of insanity to the off field shenanigans in soccer that doesn't exist in any other sport. As crazy as Boras is he has never called a manger mentally ill (I don't think).

You also wouldn't expect Boras to be paid an annual retainer by the team like Raiola was, before he made that comment that is.
   902. Swedish Chef Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:58 AM (#4118395)
I don't think I'm going to say a peep about the possibility of scoring in the Villa game.
   903. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:14 AM (#4118406)
Newcastle should definitely try signing a few defenders in the transfer window...
   904. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 28, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4118446)
Tottenham have to be thrilled with this morning. Despite this miserable run-in they have a shot at that fourth CL spot.
   905. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 28, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4118458)
Tottenham have to be thrilled with this morning. Despite this miserable run-in they have a shot at that fourth CL spot.

Even with their miserable form lately, you'd have to make them favorites for 4th again, I think. They still have a shot for 3rd as well.

Of course, that all gets thrown out the window when they lose to Blackburn tomorrow.
   906. frannyzoo Posted: April 28, 2012 at 02:43 PM (#4118541)
That Newcastle goal differential is something else...+ seven.

My French is even worse than my English, so "Go Quevilly!" or whatever it would be in the best French.
   907. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: April 28, 2012 at 02:49 PM (#4118544)
Allez Quevilly!

Alternately, "Allez l'USQ!"
   908. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 07:22 PM (#4118701)
I'm just going to be petulant and say that West Ham failing to win automatic promotion is pretty ####. Weak, weak.
   909. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:20 PM (#4118762)
"Can he be trusted? I think for this game yes. Only in this game," [Mancini] said. "Mario is a player like others who is available for Monday and I will decide. "He has apologised for the sending-off at Arsenal. He is training well. Mario can score two or three goals if he wants."
He added, "of course, he could also be sent off in the first 10 minutes if he wants, and cost me my job and us the title. But I might play him anyway, because I am apparently in some kind of contest for dumbest man in Europe."
   910. frannyzoo Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4118791)
RB: You are being petulant today. Petulant and 100% correct. In both posts.
   911. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:36 PM (#4118797)
RB: You are being petulant today. Petulant and 100% correct. In both posts.
And drunk. I'm also drunk.
   912. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4118799)
I just watched the Liverpool-Norwich highlights. What the hell got into Suarez today? As far as I understand, his finishing has been crap all year. Well, not in that game!
   913. Mefisto Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:02 PM (#4118807)
Yeah, I can't stand Suarez, but all 3 goals were just terrific.
   914. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:06 AM (#4118941)
Rumours of Fernando Torres' demise have apparently been greatly exaggerated...
   915. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:43 AM (#4118958)
Spurs are controlling this game by much more than the 1-0 score suggests.

And I don't think we needed the close up of Sandro puking on the field.
   916. Swedish Chef Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4118974)
Spurs are controlling this game by much more than the 1-0 score suggests.

I hate that, when your team is leading by one goal and in total control. Because it only takes one slip to ruin the day*.

*) Not that Aston Villa is above slipping more than once, often in a hilarious fashion.
   917. Spivey Posted: April 29, 2012 at 02:35 PM (#4119057)
Predictions for tomorrow Man City/Man U game? I'll go 1-1.
   918. Mefisto Posted: April 29, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4119067)
I say City 2-0.
   919. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 03:26 PM (#4119113)
I'll go 1-1. I predicted United to win the title back in September, and I'm sticking with that.
   920. Swedish Chef Posted: April 29, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4119122)
Roy Hodgson has been selected for the England job, whatever the poor man has done to deserve that.

I like the choice, he's a good coach and he has managed national teams before, a plus when catapulted in shortly before the tournament starts.
   921. Mefisto Posted: April 29, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4119126)
Selected? FoxSoccer only says that Hodgson has "been approached". I think he'd be a very strange choice for the job.
   922. Swedish Chef Posted: April 29, 2012 at 03:47 PM (#4119129)
Selected? FoxSoccer only says that Hodgson has "been approached".

Which means the job is his if he wants it. If he had been unwilling it wouldn't have been made public.

Bet Redknapp has sent word that he isn't available.
   923. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:03 PM (#4119156)
Roy Hodgson has been selected for the England job, whatever the poor man has done to deserve that.
Hodgson's career prospects the last few years have been like a roller coaster: Fulham make Europa League Final (Up!) Liverpool goes 13-9-9 (Down!) Takes West Brom to top half of EPL Table (Up!)

And, inevitably: England disappoints at Euro 2012 (Down!)
   924. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4119190)
I only just now read the Wiki article on Hodgson. As a relatively new follower of the game, all I had known about him was his career from Fulham forward. I had no idea he had such an extensive history.
   925. Swedish Chef Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4119206)
Hodgson's career prospects the last few years have been like a roller coaster:

It's been like that from the beginning, starting with a massive UP at Halmstads BK, followed by a huge DOWN at Bristol; and then returning to Sweden to lick the wounds.

That he started so young also makes him kind of a relic, active managers that were managing in the 70's are rare (there's Ferguson, any more?).
   926. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4119210)
Bizarre end to the Udinese-Lazio game. Udinese up 1-0 with 4 minutes of extra time. At 3:45 or so of extra time, Lazio stops playing because they thought the ref had whistled for full time. However, the referee hadn't and Udinese put another goal in past a lack of defense. That goal could end up being huge if the 3rd spot in Italy comes down to goal difference. Now Napoli, Udinese, Lazio, and Inter are all on 55 points. Napoli is +19, Udinese is +12, Lazio is +5, and Inter is +5 on goal difference.
   927. Arnett Mead (Arjun) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4119212)
Lille's second goal in the PSG-Lille match was set up by a *really* audacious behind-the-leg chip by Eden Hazard, who has very clearly looked like the best player on the pitch the whole day.

Pastore, on the other hand, despite scoring a goal, has played awfully. No bite, no pace, and his passes have been pretty off as well. I've seen PSG a fair bit this year and Pastore has looked like a complete waste of money.
   928. Swedish Chef Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:46 PM (#4119215)
That goal could end up being huge if the 3rd spot in Italy comes down to goal difference.

Head-to-head is the tiebreaker in Italy, first after that goal difference. I'm a bit sad that they changed the tiebreaking games they used to have for teams that were level on points in important spots (first place, european places and relegation).
   929. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4119220)
Head-to-head is the tiebreaker in Italy, first after that goal difference.

Ah, I just assumed every league was on goal difference tiebreaker these days.
   930. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 29, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4119250)
Eden Hazard is teh awesomeness.
   931. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: April 29, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4119262)
That he started so young also makes him kind of a relic, active managers that were managing in the 70's are rare (there's Ferguson, any more?).

It sounds bizarre but 'Arry Hedgenappi himself not only spent 1976-79 playing for the original Seattle Sounders, but he was the assistant manager under fellow player-coach Jimmy Gabriel.
   932. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 06:11 PM (#4119306)
If you guys haven't seen the CPU v CPU things, you're missing out. This one--featuring tomorrow's game--is especially masterful.
   933. Flynn Posted: April 29, 2012 at 07:12 PM (#4119357)
A mate and I are discussing with excitement Hodgson's impending England reign. Or I'm discussing with excitement. I am usually anybody but England yet I hope he does really well.

He's sort of being a downer, by discussing whether the FA will force Hodgson to pick Gerrard to sell more shirts and the inevitable media hounding of Hodgson, calling him a clown and clamoring for Redknapp. Somebody on Talkshite already compared Redknapp to Brian Clough, as if Clough didn't have more European Cups than Redknapp has major trophies.
   934. puck Posted: April 30, 2012 at 01:27 AM (#4119545)
Now Napoli, Udinese, Lazio, and Inter are all on 55 points


I'm sure they won't make it to 3rd, but how nuts is it that Inter somehow made it back into the race.
   935. frannyzoo Posted: April 30, 2012 at 07:57 AM (#4119577)
Puck: Don't be so sure. I'd say they are the favorite, much to my distaste. Each of the other 55s has had injury problems, but their collective sink/choke to allow Inter back in has been almost laughable. Napoli, in particular, have had an underperforming season...and could have prevented all this Chelsea CL crap so, so easily. What a waste of talent. The English-language announcer this weekend mentioned Mazzari for the Lazio job, but I don't know that he's done much with the Napoli one.
   936. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 30, 2012 at 08:15 AM (#4119579)
Inter has by far the toughest run to the finish, though. They play Parma, then a Milan clasico/derby/whatever-the-Italian-word-is, then at Lazio to finish the season.

Udinese and Napoli have what should be the easiest schedules (@Cesena, Genoa, @Catania and Palermo, @Bologna, Siena, respectively), and Lazio's run is pretty smooth other than the Inter match.
   937. Flynn Posted: April 30, 2012 at 08:25 AM (#4119581)
Derby della Madonnina, I believe.
   938. ursus arctos Posted: April 30, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4119765)
Got in one, Flynnie.

The Madonnina is the gilt statue of the Madonna at the peak of the Duomo in Milano.

I used to be able to see it from our front windows. Sniff.
   939. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 30, 2012 at 03:06 PM (#4119971)
United playing a defensive lineup - City is not.
   940. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 30, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4120001)
All a bit disjointed so far.

I do enjoy the Man City "Adult SS Shirts" ads they have going on though. I mean fascism is nothing if not unsubtle...
   941. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: April 30, 2012 at 03:48 PM (#4120012)
How big is that late collapse against Everton now? United are going to have to be a lot more aggressive in the second half which will leave them vulnerable on the break.
   942. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4120024)
Giggs is just not good enough any more, especially against better sides. He doesn't track back and he's slow and soft. Any benefit in possession is negated when he plays on the wing because he has one person ahead of him - Rooney.
   943. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4120051)
Just following the text-based updates but it seems like United has done absolutely nothing this half.
   944. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4120055)
They didn't really do anything the entire game.
   945. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4120057)
Just following the text-based updates but it seems like United has done absolutely nothing this half.

Either half really. They did get slightly better towards the last 15 mins, but too little too late. City deserved the win, but it wasn't a good game.
   946. ursus arctos Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4120058)
Definitely the kind of game that will convince the people of 200+ countries that this is the best league in the world.
   947. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4120059)
Just following the text-based updates but it seems like United has done absolutely nothing this half.


United did nothing all game. Just two shots, and I don't think Hart was challenged all night. A poor performance, but all credit to City. They deserved it.
   948. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4120061)
Missed the first half but the second half was great.
   949. PepTech Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4120062)
City deserved to win, certainly - much more liveliness most of the game. Compared to last week's CL, though, this was practically MLS.
   950. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: April 30, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4120063)
United starting defensive-minded is understandable but it never looked like they got in gear and I think SAF took too long to start getting his bigger guns on the pitch.
   951. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: April 30, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4120070)
Oh glorious day! Sing it with me, folks:

Blue moon -- you saw me standing alone...
   952. Textbook Editor Posted: April 30, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4120092)
What are the bookies putting the odds now for a Man City title? If they beat Newcastle, you'd have to think there's no way they're losing to QPR on the final day.
   953. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 30, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4120102)
What are the bookies putting the odds now for a Man City title?

City 1/2
United 2/1
   954. Textbook Editor Posted: April 30, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4120106)
Just for giggles... what's the next tiebreaker after GD? Does City have the lead in that as well?
   955. ursus arctos Posted: April 30, 2012 at 06:08 PM (#4120109)
It's goals scored. City lead in that at the moment, but if United somehow catch them on goal difference, they will lead that as well.
   956. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: April 30, 2012 at 06:08 PM (#4120110)
Just for giggles... what's the next tiebreaker after GD? Does City have the lead in that as well?


Goals scored, City up by 2 in that department. They're also up 8 in GD so it would take quite the beat down by United the rest of the season to make up for that.
   957. Textbook Editor Posted: April 30, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4120126)
Thanks, FPH, ursus & DA!

It certainly seemed to this untrained eye that United played "not to lose," and, in doing so, lost. I mean, I know Spurs' collapse may cost them the CL spot, but if Man U wind up losing the title, I think that would be seen as the bigger collapse, right?
   958. ursus arctos Posted: April 30, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4120130)
Yes, which is why some United hotheads busted windows at the City Store.
   959. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 30, 2012 at 06:38 PM (#4120133)
Yes, which is why some United hotheads busted windows at the City Store.

Maybe they just wanted some of that ####### SS fashion they had displayed?
   960. Ron J Posted: April 30, 2012 at 09:10 PM (#4120289)
#939 Frankly glad to see that the lineup they put out there didn't work.

Valencia has been their second best player all year and can't get into the lineup? Park can't get a game in months and is playing in the most important game of the year?

Yeah, no choice about Evans. Injuries are a fact of life. Still, something I've been meaning to do is a plus/minus for every player (adjusting for quality of opposition). Never got around to it, but I'd bet serious money that the least successful alignment for Man U features Giggs out wide with Park playing any kind of role.

This is the worst defensive Man U team in a long time, and any success (quite a bit mind you) is built around two wide players supporting two strikers with plenty of support from the left and right backs. That's not how they played this game. Didn't work and I'm glad of it.

EDIT: Yeah Valencia has had a rough couple of games. Still, Giggs didn't rate to be an answer. Hasn't been effective all year out wide, and as noted he's lost enough speed that he's just not dangerous on the break -- important to the way United intended to play.
   961. Mattbert Posted: April 30, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4120357)
More like Manchester Poo-nited, amirite?
   962. Baldrick Posted: April 30, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4120366)
I'd put down a bet on United at those odds.
   963. Mefisto Posted: April 30, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4120386)
I agree with 960. I couldn't believe the lineup when they announced it. It's not the first time this year that SAF has gotten it completely wrong, either.
   964. Padgett Posted: May 01, 2012 at 10:57 AM (#4120589)
Interesting piece by Jen Chang on how Everton use analytics, implying that they have something like the Peter Brand of English soccer. Though it's not mentioned directly, I wonder if this helps explain Everton's tendency to perform better later in the season, when presumably the data on opposing sides is based on a larger sample and therefore more reliable.
   965. Flynn Posted: May 01, 2012 at 11:20 AM (#4120629)
The Madonnina is the gilt statue of the Madonna at the peak of the Duomo in Milano.

I used to be able to see it from our front windows. Sniff.


What's Milan like, ursus? I know that's quite a broad question, but I'm becoming intrigued by visiting there. And what is Rome like?

I know the broad regional differences and the idiosyncrasies of Italy as a whole, but I want to know a bit more from someone who's lived there.
   966. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: May 01, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4120639)
I'd put down a bet on United at those odds.
Me too. I could easily see City slipping up at Newcastle--even a draw probably puts United in the driver's seat heading into the last weekend.
   967. Textbook Editor Posted: May 01, 2012 at 11:42 AM (#4120658)
Me too. I could easily see City slipping up at Newcastle--even a draw probably puts United in the driver's seat heading into the last weekend.


I agree with this. City simply must have 2 wins; they cannot bank on United dropping points in their last two games.

   968. ursus arctos Posted: May 01, 2012 at 12:32 PM (#4120720)
Flynn, I greatly enjoyed my time in Milan, but I wouldn't rank it in the top 20 Italian cities for tourists, unless you are extremely interested in one or more of the following: a) luxury shopping, b) model stalking, c) opera, in which case it may break the top ten. Most Italians will have a similar view, and will tell you that the coffee is horrible, the people arrogant Austrians and the food lacking of flavor. It is a great place from which to explore other parts of the north, and the Meazza is a great stadium, but it really can't hold a candle to the likes of Bergamo, Naples, or Lucca, let alone Rome, Florence or Venice.

Rome, on the other hand, can be a pain if you have to work there, but is a fabulous city to visit. We also lived there for several months, and the only thing that Milan does better is ethnic restaurants (which still pale to the likes of London or Paris, let alone New York or San Francisco).
   969. Arnett Mead (Arjun) Posted: May 01, 2012 at 05:04 PM (#4121051)
Can't find the may thread (has it been created yet), but I just want to say that the last fifteen or so minutes of this Montpellier-Evian Thonen game were insane. Montpellier score a tying goal after going down 2-0 (it looked offside to me), then Evian have a goal disallowed (which looked about as offside as the Montpellier goal), then Remy Cabella was taken down in the area (this one seem legit, even if he dived a little), a brawl erupted, about four players were sent off (including Younes Belhanda, who is probably going to be suspended for the rest of the season for continuing to yell/slap, even after being sent off. That's quite a blow to Montpellier, as he's their creative lynchpin), and then Souleymane Camara (who had been fantastic ever since coming on for Ait Fana around the 60th minute) *missed* the penalty.

It's very exciting stuff, and the big winners seem to be PSG.
   970. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 01, 2012 at 05:57 PM (#4121091)
The important thing is Torino won again today. It's tight, but 5 games to promotion and not have to deal with shitty feeds anymore to watch the games.

Just to catch up, I'm kind of disappointed about the Hodgson appointment as I thought the Redknapp exit plan was in place. It's not that I think Harry is crap but his habit of burying useful players makes me frustrated. I just feel Harry has reached the level of where he can take the club. With Modric, Adebayor, King and Defoe likely not coming back, it would have been a good time for a new manager--cough, David Moyes, cough--to get a chance to reinvent the team a little. Ah well.

What else is going on? Freiburg is safe! They're are actually midtable-ish now, thankfully.

Marko Marin to Chelsea? Is that to make Juan Mata feel like a big man?

edit: Oh yeah, and I read The Miracle of Castel di Sangro. It was good, but I found myself cringing at some of McGinniss's doofusness.
   971. Ron J Posted: May 01, 2012 at 06:08 PM (#4121098)
#970 I think it's dead easy to understand in that apparently it was going to cost the FA somewhere around 10 million pounds.

Ah found some details:

Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy put a five million pounds release clause in Redknapp’s contract when he was appointed, and FA would also have to pay the remaining 15 months of a deal worth a basic 3.1 million pounds a year, should they want him as manager for the England squad.

   972. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 01, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4121103)
The thing I don't get about the Hodgson appointment is why give him 4 years?Does anybody think he has a snowballs chance in hell of staying on past the next WC?
   973. Swedish Chef Posted: May 01, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4121111)
Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy put a five million pounds release clause in Redknapp’s contract when he was appointed

That was modest considering that Spurs paid Portsmouth five million for Redknapp.
   974. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 01, 2012 at 07:40 PM (#4121172)
Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy put a five million pounds release clause in Redknapp’s contract when he was appointed, and FA would also have to pay the remaining 15 months of a deal worth a basic 3.1 million pounds a year, should they want him as manager for the England squad.


Yeah, but if they pay him to his Monaco account, they can cut the income tax right out of it!
   975. Mefisto Posted: May 01, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4121190)
I guess it depends on how much they have to pay Hodgson. IMO he might get the team organized in time for the Euros, but he's not the guy for 2014. A short term deal would have made sense; if they don't have to pay him too much, a longer term one will be fine even if they eat the contract.

The real question will be whether he'll take his chances with the aging players, who don't really listen to anyone and who aren't likely to listen to Roy any more than the Liverpool team did, or will he go with younger players who might follow his system.
   976. Juan V Posted: May 02, 2012 at 09:02 AM (#4121467)
ZM has what I think is a nice piece

Assuming the FA wasn't going to punt the tournament and build for the future, appointing Hogdson instead of Redknapp makes sense. But, 4 years?
   977. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 02, 2012 at 09:07 AM (#4121471)
   978. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: May 02, 2012 at 09:08 AM (#4121472)
May thread should be up shortly
   979. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: May 02, 2012 at 09:42 AM (#4121496)
Yeah, but if they pay him to his Monaco account, they can cut the income tax right out of it!

I believe they would then have to officially appoint his dead dog England manager.
   980. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 02, 2012 at 09:51 AM (#4121503)
I believe they would then have to officially appoint his dead dog England manager.

It probably wouldn't make a difference. They could probably put me in charge of the team and they'd still get out of the group and then flame out in the quarters. It's their destiny. England is the red-shirted ensign on Star Trek--just handsome enough so you care a little, very dull so you don't care too much, and very, very doomed.
   981. Flynn Posted: May 02, 2012 at 10:01 AM (#4121510)
Ajax play Venlo tonight, it's going to be a coronation. 12 in a row, 13 if they win tonight, the magic number 14 if they win their last game.

They will lose Jan Vertonghen, but the rest of the team will stick around. They're my dark horse pick for next year's Champions League - not that a team will come from outside the big 4 and win, but that they are the likeliest team from outside the big 4 to lift Big Ears.

And they're playing beautiful ball doing it too. De Boer is nominally a Cruijff guy, but he played under Van Gaal and melds Van Gaal's more direct 4-3-3 with Cruijff's possession based game. It works very, very well.
   982. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 02, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4121556)
I was just reading a blog post that was talking about scoring actually being up in the Dutch league this year -- pretty incredible, given they were already one of the highest scoring leagues (the figure was around 3.25 GPG, although the blog post is at this point a bit dated). I'm really hoping I'll have ESPN3 by the start of next season, as it seems like they're good for at least one Eredivisie game per weekend.
   983. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 02, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4121674)
England is the red-shirted ensign on Star Trek--just handsome enough so you care a little, very dull so you don't care too much, and very, very doomed.
So, I'm probably wrong about all of the following, but your "very dull" sort of got me thinking. The England roster looks strong to me across the back - Cole in goal, Terry and Lescott in the center with Cole at one fullback and one of Richards/Walker/?? at the other. Add Scott Parker as a holding mid with Michael Carrick helping out, plus a coach who really likes his zonal marking schemes, and they could be a really boring but effective side in the Euros.
   984. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 02, 2012 at 12:42 PM (#4121701)
Add Scott Parker as a holding mid with Michael Carrick helping out, plus a coach who really likes his zonal marking schemes, and they could be a really boring but effective side in the Euros.

Don't get me wrong, I think England are a solid team, but they really don't have much quality up top and the midfield lacks creativity. What are their options at striker to play off Rooney (who is missing the first 2 games anyway)? Welbeck? Bent? Sturridge? France, just as an example, blows England away when it comes to options at striker. Crazy things can happen--hell, if Greece or Denmark can win, England can--but they sure seem like a long shot to me. Aside from England, I'm really disappointed Belgium didn't qualify. It would have been interesting to see if all that talent they have can come together at some point.
   985. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 02, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4121708)
Also, what do you guys think of Kinsale's on May 13th for the various finales across Europe?
   986. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 02, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4121718)
All of the second-tier (assuming Spain + Germany + Orange are top-tier) Euro teams have their issues, though. Italy, for example, has the same problems up front. Balotelli? Cassano? Prandelli doesn't seem to rate ADN, and the other options (Matri, Pazzini, etc.) are sketchy. We're talking about three group stage games and knockouts, so it's definitely possible Hodgson finds an effective formation/set of tactics that, although not aesthetically pleasing, gets En-guh-land into the QFs and perhaps even the semis.
   987. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 02, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4121732)
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the English players play together less than the other top countries' players do. The English team seems to be more in line with what I perceive as an "All Star team" while teams like Germany, Spain and Italy seem to get the core of their teams from the same club teams.

That could just be me perceiving something that isn't true, the top teams in those countries consolidating talent more or maybe an effort to keep "groups" together to build familiarity.
   988. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 02, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4121735)
so it's definitely possible Hodgson finds an effective formation/set of tactics that, although not aesthetically pleasing, gets En-guh-land into the QFs and perhaps even the semis.

That's the key, though, right? Is Hodgson the guy to come up with a tactical plan the players will actually carry out? I'm neutral about England but it seems, when watching them, that they don't really have a defined style of play like the Italians do or the German do or the Spanish. If Hodgson can find 11 players to buy into his system then, yeah, England can do some damage. First up, though, is the John Terry/Rio Ferdinand problem. Good luck with that one, Roy. I'm sure the FA will have your back! Talent-wise, Terry seems clearly the better player at this point, but if you take Terry instead of Ferdinand it looks bad. If you take both, you risk creating factions on the squad. It should be a fun soap opera.
   989. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 02, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4121740)
That could just be me perceiving something that isn't true, the top teams in those countries consolidating talent more or maybe an effort to keep "groups" together to build familiarity.

I think it's sort of true of Spain and Germany (because Bayern dominates the Bundesliga financially as Barca/Real do in Spain) but Holland's players are spread all over Europe and they do fine. I do agree with you that England always seem more of an "all-star" team than a coherent squad.
   990. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 02, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4121750)
I'd have to do some research to see how much this is actually borne out, but my instinct is to say that the vast majority of Dutch talent goes through the Ajax academy (even if they don't end up staying there), which could help give them some cohesion, and familiarity with the system etc.
   991. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 02, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4121754)
I'd have to do some research to see how much this is actually borne out, but my instinct is to say that the vast majority of Dutch talent goes through the Ajax academy (even if they don't end up staying there), which could help give them some cohesion, and familiarity with the system etc.

This makes sense, actually. Have you not started drinking yet?
   992. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: May 02, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4121775)
Also, what do you guys think of Kinsale's on May 13th for the various finales across Europe?
I'm in.
   993. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: May 02, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4121780)
Let's see, the Dutch team at the 2010 World Cup.

Stekelenburg - Ajax 1997-2011
van der Wiel - Ajax 1996-2002, 2007-present
Heitinga - Ajax 1990-2008
de Jong - Ajax 1993-2006
Sneijder - Ajax 1991-2007
Ooijer - Ajax 1986-94
Elia - ADO Den Haag, then Ajax ages 13-15, then ADO again?
Babel - Ajax 1998-2007
van der Vaart - Ajax 1993-2005

not from Ajax youth system:
Mathijsen - Willem II, then AZ
van Bronckhorst - Feyenoord
van Persie - Feyenoord
Kuyt - Quick Boys, then Utrecht, then Feyenoord
van Bommel - Fortuna Sittard,then PSV
Robben - Groningen, then PSV
Afellay - PSV
Boulahrouz - Waalwijk
de Zeeuw - Apeldoornse Geheel Onthouders Voetbalvereniging, then Go Ahead Eagles, then AZ, joined Ajax at 26
Braafheid - Utrecht
Vorm - Utrecht
Schaars - Vitesse, then AZ
Huntelaar - de Graafschap, then PSV, then Apeldoornse Geheel Onthouders Voetbalvereniging, then Heerenveen, joined Ajax at 23
Boschker - Twente

Van Marwijk - played for or coached 10 different teams, including Feyenoord but not Ajax.
   994. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 02, 2012 at 02:24 PM (#4121800)
This makes sense, actually. Have you not started drinking yet?

I never drink when I have work the next day.
   995. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 02, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4121827)
I never drink when I have work the next day.

I ONLY drink because I have work the next day.
   996. I am going to be Frank Posted: May 02, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4121862)
Great goal by Cisse. Barca-Malaga is on ESPN2. Is Malaga the team that is owned by some oil sheik?
   997. ursus arctos Posted: May 02, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4121865)
Messi just tied Gerd Mueller's all-time record for goals in a season (67)
   998. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: May 02, 2012 at 03:19 PM (#4121867)
Great reception for Muamba at Spurs-Bolton too.
   999. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 02, 2012 at 03:44 PM (#4121876)
Apologies if this has been discussed upthread, but I'm guessing that if Liverpool takes the FA Cup, they take that berth in next year's Europa, and they yield the League Cup berth to Cardiff? Is that right?
   1000. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 02, 2012 at 03:49 PM (#4121880)
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