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Wednesday, April 03, 2013

OT: The Soccer Thread, April 2013

THE key April game:

April 6th Hamburglar v SC FREIBURG: Grudge match of the year featuring two clubs oblivious to the grudginess of the match. Be there!

Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 03, 2013 at 12:49 PM | 916 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off-topic

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   801. ursus arctos Posted: April 29, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4428315)
I doubt that MLS are thrilled about the proposed name either.

My suspicion is that it is being dictated by Mansour, who sees "potential synergies" between the two "Cities". I would also expet them to play in light blue.
   802. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4428317)
I look forward to a really fat YaYa Toure suting up for NYC FC in 2017, at least.
   803. DA Baracus Posted: April 29, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4428331)
Even though there is a cap and the league could certainly use the massive franchise fee, I really don't like the idea of a sugar daddy in MLS.

New York City FC ain't great but it's better than Real Salt Lake, Columbus Crew, DC United and Houston Dynamo.
   804. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 03:40 PM (#4428350)
I really don't like the idea of a sugar daddy in MLS.

But there already is one in LA!
   805. DA Baracus Posted: April 29, 2013 at 04:54 PM (#4428476)
But there already is one in LA!


Though it's not to the extent that Man City is... point taken.
   806. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:11 PM (#4428507)
I guess Di Canio's schtick wore off!

   807. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:16 PM (#4428515)
Shouldn't it be New York City City?
   808. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:19 PM (#4428524)
What a difference a weekend (and a pair of blowouts) makes:

Before:
Newcastle 37points -17gd
Aston Villa 34points -27gd

After:
Aston Villa 37points -22gd
Newcastle 37points -23gd
   809. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4428528)
New York City Queens? The only advantage a sugar daddy in the MLS has are designated players, right? It would still be very difficult to get a good Premier League-quality player in his prime to come over to the US.
   810. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 06:38 PM (#4428608)
New York City Queens?

Something tells me the sheiks would frown on that nickname...
   811. frannyzoo Posted: April 29, 2013 at 07:10 PM (#4428644)
Why not the New York Dolls? Sure, the New York Velvet Underground would be ideal, but this is MLS.
   812. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 07:26 PM (#4428659)
Harry will be managing QPR next year in the Championship.
   813. Swedish Chef Posted: April 29, 2013 at 07:37 PM (#4428688)
Missed the game due to cruising down the Seine and wasting the tech industry's ill-gotten gains on food and wine. But I'm glad that Villa could take down Di Canio a peg. Now they just have to make that last game against Wigan unimportant.
   814. frannyzoo Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:16 PM (#4428735)
Dear Fascists:

Thanks for your outstanding performance today. Up yours.

Sincerely,

Wigan
   815. Mefisto Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:45 PM (#4428785)
Question for the crowd: Should the US women's national team count as a "major American team sport"? I ask not to take anything away from Jason Collins, but I'm curious what others think of the "major team sport" thing.

I think it's true that there's more acceptance of lesbians than there is of gay men. But there is an out gay athlete (Megan Rapinoe), along with obvious but technically closeted cases (Abby Wambach), on the USWNT so I'm trying to sort out if that team doesn't qualify as "major" in most people's eyes, or if the distinction between gay men and gay women accounts for the difference in reaction.
   816. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 09:06 PM (#4428815)
PFA Team of the Year

David de Gea (Manchester United); Pablo Zabaleta (Manchester City), Jan Vertonghen (Tottenham), Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United), Leighton Baines (Everton); Michael Carrick (Manchester United), Juan Mata (Chelsea), Gareth Bale (Tottenham), Eden Hazard (Chelsea); Luis Suárez (Liverpool), Robin van Persie (Manchester United)

Not much to argue about, I think, though, despite some inconsistency, I would take Toure over Hazard. Bale is player of the year and that's fine. I couldn't argue with Bale, Suarez or RVP winning. Also, evidently Man City are already talking to Pellegrini. And West Ham have signed a guy named Rat. I look forward to the puns!
   817. Mefisto Posted: April 29, 2013 at 09:08 PM (#4428817)
I just noticed that ESPN's chyron is adding qualifiers: "male athlete" and "four major American sports".
   818. frannyzoo Posted: April 29, 2013 at 09:12 PM (#4428820)
Trouble is, I think Yaya Toure is PFA if not for the African Cup. That tourney is the bane of so much good play in EPL. I think it should be tied to the Euro (after one time, before another).

Edit: Oh..and David Silva isn't on the list provided...there must be something wrong. Silva playing in England reminds me of Coltrane playing with Miles...good, but obviously meant for other things.
   819. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 09:15 PM (#4428821)
Trouble is, I think Yaya Toure is PFA if not for the African Cup.

He missed as many games as Hazard did for kicking the ball boy, no?
   820. Baldrick Posted: April 30, 2013 at 12:36 AM (#4429064)
He missed as many games as Hazard did for kicking the ball boy, no?

Ball man.
   821. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 30, 2013 at 12:55 AM (#4429080)
I think it's true that there's more acceptance of lesbians than there is of gay men. But there is an out gay athlete (Megan Rapinoe), along with obvious but technically closeted cases (Abby Wambach), on the USWNT so I'm trying to sort out if that team doesn't qualify as "major" in most people's eyes, or if the distinction between gay men and gay women accounts for the difference in reaction.

It's definitely the difference between gay men (stereotypically non-athletic) and gay women (stereotypically athletic).

There have been multiple out lesbians in the WNBA since its founding, I'm pretty sure.
   822. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: April 30, 2013 at 06:58 AM (#4429182)
FC Evil

I like the concept but well my first pick for documentable true evil would be Juve.

Denied. Places 1 through 13 are already taken, and amply filled by Bayern.
   823. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 07:54 AM (#4429187)
Juventus can be Evil FC.
   824. zack Posted: April 30, 2013 at 09:18 AM (#4429225)
But there already was an FC New York.

And I really don't think all the "good names" are taken, the guys who own teams are just terribly uncreative and pick whichever of the five minute brain storm that the focus group likes best.

MLS didn't have bad nicknames because they're all taken, they had bad nicknames because it was the 90's. And then in the 2000's they just stopped trying.
   825. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 09:53 AM (#4429271)
   826. zack Posted: April 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM (#4429316)
Also, honestly it should be way easier to brand a soccer team than any other big sport, because the only shirt branding is a tiny crest no one can see. Hockey would be the hardest.

If I owned an MLS expansion team, I would probably just pick a nice color set and let the nickname develop organically. It's the OG American way anyhow. And baby blue is a pretty nice feature color that is rare in US sports, though personally I crave more green teams.

Edit: Whoops, forgot about KC. Anything but RWB plz.
   827. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 11:50 AM (#4429407)
Tony Fernandes is very disappointed

So, any QPR players you'd want your club to have? Andros Townsend is already a Spur, so I'm good! Remy is very good but he's also fragile so I think I'd pass. Taraabt should land with a good club. Junior Hoilett--shat a crap year he had. Samba looked completely clownshoes since coming back to England. Granero? Onuoha? Barton?
   828. Ron J2 Posted: April 30, 2013 at 12:13 PM (#4429449)
#816 If he actually made the team on merit that's a big bounce-back from Ferninand. I wonder though. Man U gave up a lot of goals for a title winner and seem somehow over-represented on the defensive side.
   829. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 12:19 PM (#4429458)
#816 If he actually made the team on merit that's a big bounce-back from Ferninand. I wonder though. Man U gave up a lot of goals for a title winner and seem somehow over-represented on the defensive side.

I thought he was pretty good this year. I can't think of anyone I think was obviously better so I'm sure his star power broke the tie for a lot of voters. Chico Flores was good for Swansea and I thought Distin had a good year for Everton. Kompany is always good but he wasn't as good as last year. No one else really sticks out for me.
   830. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 30, 2013 at 01:07 PM (#4429527)
So, any QPR players you'd want your club to have? Andros Townsend is already a Spur, so I'm good! Remy is very good but he's also fragile so I think I'd pass. Taraabt should land with a good club. Junior Hoilett--shat a crap year he had. Samba looked completely clownshoes since coming back to England. Granero? Onuoha? Barton?


The contracts become the problem. I think a guy like Samba would be a pretty good addition to most teams in the EPL either as a regular part of the central defense or as depth but of course at his price, no way. I'd take Remy fragility and all and I agree that Taraabt has some value.

What about Jamie Mackie? I feel like everytime I see him he's contributing in some positive manner or another. I don't know if that's just a function of looking better than the crap he's surrounded by or me just being completely incompetent but I can see him contributing to a mid-table team.
   831. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4429535)
I don't know if that's just a function of looking better than the crap he's surrounded by or me just being completely incompetent but I can see him contributing to a mid-table team.

Sure. I can see Mackie at Norwich or backing up Benteke at Villa, etc. He's definitely a first tier player.
   832. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 30, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4429536)
Kompany could not be named to the team of the season, there is a rule limiting participation to no more than two Belgians.
   833. Rennie's Tenet Posted: April 30, 2013 at 01:38 PM (#4429561)
In countries with relegation, are there ever contracts where players are paid more if they get promoted to a higher league, or less if they get relegated? I guess a primary question to that would be does each step of the pyramid have its own minimum salary?
   834. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 01:41 PM (#4429564)
In countries with relegation, are there ever contracts where players are paid more if they get promoted to a higher league, or less if they get relegated?

Yes, both ways.

I guess a primary question to that would be does each step of the pyramid have its own minimum salary?

Good question. I have no idea. What are the minimum salaries, not just for first teamers, but reserve players? Do academy players get paid?
   835. Swedish Chef Posted: April 30, 2013 at 01:59 PM (#4429587)
I guess a primary question to that would be does each step of the pyramid have its own minimum salary?

I don't know any league in Europe with a minimum or maximum salary (the latter would be illegal, of course), clubs sometimes toy with the idea of signing players as amateurs (who can't get paid) to get around transfer windows, but I don't think it has been done for real. Imported players may need to be paid a livable wage to get a permit from the government.

Do academy players get paid?

They get paid a little spending money, but they max out at a couple of hundred pound a week before they sign professional terms.
   836. Swedish Chef Posted: April 30, 2013 at 02:04 PM (#4429597)
I just did a search to see if a minimum wage had been under discussion for the Football League, and came up with this article on the grim life in the football coal seam.
   837. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 02:27 PM (#4429640)
Real: Diego Lopez; Essien, Varane, Ramos, Coentrao; Modric, Alonso; Di Maria, Ozil, Ronaldo; Higuain

Subs: Casillas, Pepe,Khedira, Benzema, Kaka, Albiol, MOrata

That's Jose's go for broke line up. Pepe and Khedira get the bench for Essien and Di Maria.
   838. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 30, 2013 at 02:43 PM (#4429657)
Howard Webb is the ref. Expect a lot of whistle-swallowing.
   839. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4429678)
Dortmund look a little skittish early.
   840. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 02:59 PM (#4429688)
Hoo boy. Dortmund have given up some great chances.

And...Ozil blows a one on one with the keeper.
   841. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4429692)
It looks to me like Dortmund aren't spacing themselves well. Everyone is creeping towards the ball and allowing way too much space for runners.
   842. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: April 30, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4429693)
Damn, Dortmund shipping some real chances ...
   843. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: April 30, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4429704)
deleted
   844. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 03:12 PM (#4429714)
Real look like they're going full dark arts in this game.
   845. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4429730)
A great game so far for Dortmund after a shaky start. Modric has been good for Real but Higuain is having a stinker and Dortmund have taken Alonso out of the game. Sergio Ramos has hit Lewandowski in the face at least twice. Now I gotta wait until I get home for the second half.
   846. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: April 30, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4429741)
Shaky start, 45 minutes to go...
   847. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: April 30, 2013 at 04:01 PM (#4429762)
On come Benzema and Kaka, hopefully too late (I'm unabashedly rooting for Dortmund to win it all)
   848. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: April 30, 2013 at 04:40 PM (#4429824)
Holy ####### #### w00t
   849. AuntBea Posted: April 30, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4429826)
You have to admire that last second dive by Ronaldo.

Until the last 15 minutes I thought Dortmund had outplayed them today. Certainly they had the better chances on goal. Especially, for large parts of the second half Real seemed to be sleepwalking. Unbelievable how Dortmund almost gave it away.
   850. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 30, 2013 at 04:44 PM (#4429832)
That header by Sergio Ramos off the corner around the 92nd minute could have been it. Up three with 10 minutes to play if they had blown that where does it rank?

I didn't see much at all but the Yahoo game tracker and a co-worker who did watch quite a bit make it sound like Madrid could have won 5-1 very easily today.
   851. AuntBea Posted: April 30, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4429843)
The 2-0 scoreline flatters Madrid. Before Benzema's goal, the 2 best chances (at least) were Dortmund's.
   852. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: April 30, 2013 at 04:52 PM (#4429851)
Madrid got off to a great start, totally dominated the first 15 minutes or so. The next 65 minutes or so were back and forth, Lewandowski hit the post & Lopez made a great save on Gundogan.

Madrid didn't exactly dominate the game. Dortmund lost their composure during the last 5 minutes but any team would lose their #### in that circumstance. Wiedenfeller had a great game.
   853. AuntBea Posted: April 30, 2013 at 04:52 PM (#4429852)
According to those gametracker sites, Real had 10 shots in the last 15 minutes of the game.
   854. AuntBea Posted: April 30, 2013 at 04:54 PM (#4429855)
Well that makes a little more sense. I started watching at the 16 minute mark. From then until the end of the first half I would say that Madrid might have had the better of it, but only slightly, and certainly they were uninspiring. For the first 35 minutes of the second half Dortmund outplayed Madrid. Then all hell broke loose.
   855. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 30, 2013 at 06:37 PM (#4429957)
Ausgezeichnet! Congrats to the Dortmund fans here.
   856. Mefisto Posted: April 30, 2013 at 08:17 PM (#4430035)
One evil empire down, one to go.
   857. AuntBea Posted: April 30, 2013 at 11:01 PM (#4430260)
Of Madrid's 23 shots, 7 came in the first 20 minutes, and 10 more in the last 10 minutes (last 15, if you include extra time). That leaves just 6 shots for the middle 60 minutes.

If Dortmund had scored on one of their chances in the second half, I'm fairly sure that flurry at the end never would have come about. I'm just glad they won.
   858. Swedish Chef Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:32 AM (#4430331)
One evil empire down, one to go.

Unfortunately, I don't see Barca winning 5-0....
   859. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:10 AM (#4430406)
So, Mourinho's reign at Real can't be considered anything other than a failure, no? I remember when he took over he sounded as if he was already polishing the place on the mantel where the CL trophy would go. A league title and (probably) two domestic cups isn't bad, but I don't think that's what Real gave him so much money and control for. Assuming he goes, who replaces him? Clarence Seedorf as player-manager would make me a temporary Real fan, but, I mean, realistically what will happen?
   860. zack Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:17 AM (#4430414)
The imbecilic time wasting was disappointing if Dortmund are supposed to be the light in the darkness, but I guess everybody does it.
   861. Swedish Chef Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:18 AM (#4430415)
Assuming he goes, who replaces him?

Heynckes has to be the frontrunner, he doesn't seem set on retirement.
   862. jmurph Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:21 AM (#4430417)
So, Mourinho's reign at Real can't be considered anything other than a failure, no?


I'm certainly not a Madrid fan, so my perspective doesn't count as much as theirs does, but I think the league title was a pretty big deal. Let's rewind a couple years (and heck, even look at this year) and remember that Barcelona's reign seemed pretty unstoppable. I agree with you, though, that the CL performance hasn't matched the bluster.
   863. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:23 AM (#4430421)
Heynckes has to be the frontrunner, he doesn't seem set on retirement.

That's a good call. I get the feeling he'll want to prove a point to Bayern, too.
   864. Spivey Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:30 AM (#4430425)
I tend to come down on jmurph's side of the ledger regarding Mourinho. The fact he had Real win the regular season title - convincingly - over that Barcelona team is pretty incredible. They made very deep runs into the CL 3 years in a row now. It's unfortunate for them they didn't win one - but it's an extremely tough competition to advance that far consistently in. Just ask Man City and Man U.

I bet he considers it incomplete since he didn't win the CL.
   865. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:41 AM (#4430431)
Zombie transfer.

Also, looks like Chelsea will bring back Lampard. Goetze has a torn hamstring and is a doubt for the CL final. I wouldn't play him anyway.
   866. AuntBea Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:56 AM (#4430442)
The imbecilic time wasting was disappointing if Dortmund are supposed to be the light in the darkness, but I guess everybody does it.
.

I despise the whole "clock" system in soccer. The extra-time absolutely never reflects the time actually wasted on the field. It's pathetic when unsportsmanlike activity is rewarded. I challenge anyone to time a game, stopping the clock for every second that is being intentionally wasted. Invariably the time is much greater than whatever has been added on to the clock.

In the case of the player going down right at the 90 minute mark and the ref calling the stretcher out, the problem actually goes beyond a mere clock issue. Dortmund gained a large advantage merely from having time to settle down from a moment when they were playing very poor soccer. After the sub came in they played much better; they saw the last few minutes out in a much more composed way. While a clock problem could be fixed relatively easily, it is less clear what could be done about this.
   867. Mefisto Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:56 AM (#4430443)
Unfortunately, I don't see Barca winning 5-0....


Neither do I. But it would be epic if they did.
   868. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 01, 2013 at 09:59 AM (#4430446)
The imbecilic time wasting was disappointing if Dortmund are supposed to be the light in the darkness, but I guess everybody does it.


Dortmund played a very open game for about the first 80 minutes or so, even without arguably their best attacker in Goetze. Really they only parked the bus for the last 15 minutes, and they would've been completely foolish not to.

If you're referring to the Bender injury, he could have been faking it but Bender's not one to flop.
   869. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:00 AM (#4430449)
I despise the whole "clock" system in soccer.

I've often wondered why they don't have a time official whose sole job would be to keep track of all the dead time and then decide on the proper amount of extra time. Also, why does it take so long to set up free kicks? That drives me nuts sometimes.
   870. zack Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:09 AM (#4430452)
If you're referring to the Bender injury, he could have been faking it but Bender's not one to flop.

I'm referring mostly to two things: Weidenfeller falling on the ball and going fetal on it, after a goal had clearly been scored and there were 3 Madrid players in the net. He got a yellow card, which is meaningless for a GK at that point. Then on the Bender injury, I'm sure it hurt, but I'm also sure he didn't need a stretcher. As soon as the stretcher reached the sideline, he stood up and was helped walk to the bench. I guarantee you if they had been trailing, he would have miraculously limped to the sideline, and then been back on 90 seconds later.
   871. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:10 AM (#4430453)
That the timing is unique to soccer is something that makes me enjoy it. The problem with trying to track the time is there is no clarity as to what is time wasting and what is acceptable. If you had clock stoppages the moment the ball went out of play or on a dead ball the way say basketball does it the time would be vastly different. Dortmund weren't doing anything that every other team in the world does in the same situation.
   872. AuntBea Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:15 AM (#4430457)
Dortmund weren't doing anything that every other team in the world does in the same situation.


This is precisely the problem. Some teams do it more or better than others, some refs allow it more than others. Sometimes the activity helps decide the result. None of it has anything to do with playing actual soccer, the sport played with feet and a ball. On top of all that, it is unaesthetic and interrupts the actual game.
   873. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:26 AM (#4430464)
Robbie Rogers is training with the Galaxy. I wonder if he's going to attempt a comeback? (I don't think the Galaxy will sign him, they're just doing him a favor.)
   874. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:30 AM (#4430467)
This is precisely the problem. Some teams do it more or better than others, some refs allow it more than others. Sometimes the activity helps decide the result. None of it has anything to do with playing actual soccer, the sport played with feet and a ball. On top of all that, it is unaesthetic and interrupts the actual game.

If the alternative is the NBA style clock, where the end of the game turns into a hack-a-thon, in order to "stop the clock", I'll take football's solution every time.
   875. AuntBea Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:34 AM (#4430468)
If the alternative is the NBA style clock, where the end of the game turns into a hack-a-thon, in order to "stop the clock", I'll take football's solution every time.


Agreed. But I don't at all see how that would happen. Intentional fouls in soccer normally receive yellow cards.

This is one of the reasons I seldom watch basketball anymore.
   876. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:37 AM (#4430470)
I don't think it really helps decide the result, not in an amount I worry about anyway. Just use this week as an example. RM lost by a goal after 180 minutes of soccer. Did Dortmund dicking around help? Yeah it did but Real had ample opportunities to get that extra goal over the two legs.

Part of the problem for me is that the running clock is a big part of soccer's appeal and I'm not sure how you retain that and do something fairer on the time wasting. In theory the tool exists for referees to be more aggressive in giving yellows but that obviously isn't always used and is often a reasonable trade off for the team that is ahead.
   877. AuntBea Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:44 AM (#4430474)
Part of the problem for me is that the running clock is a big part of soccer's appeal and I'm not sure how you retain that and do something fairer on the time wasting


I think this is the best (only) argument for keeping the system the way it is. The beauty of the running clock balanced against the ugliness of time wasting. I know which side I would come out on if this were the only consideration, and it's the opposite side that you have chosen.

The fact that teams do it constantly, despite the condemnation of many, indicates that there is an advantage in time wasting. Every advantage counts.

Edit: Speaking of foul shots in basketball, I think the game would be better if there were none. At all. Maybe (and I have not thought this through) just give the offensive team that was fouled an extra point, and have them retain possession. A foul on a missed shot would be one point + possession. A foul on a made shot would be an extra point. The game would be so much faster and better. Teams would be forced to use their bench because the game would be much more tiring.
   878. zack Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:49 AM (#4430476)
I don't really care so much about the clock, because I fear the alternative as FPH says. It's just hate the obvious gamesmanship and interruption of what is often the most furious part of the game. If they enforced the rules like they did in the Canada/US Olympic game it would disappear in an instant.
   879. Swedish Chef Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:54 AM (#4430481)
Stop right there. Part of the deal with FIFA that gave the World Cup 94 to the US was a moratorium on Americans complaining about the rules of football. At least it ought to have been.
   880. richallen Posted: May 01, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4430484)
Clock management/delaying the game has long been one of Sam Allardyce’s tricks. Against better teams, his sides have always played very very slowly, delaying anything they can. That way the game might go from 50 minutes of ball in play (I think this is about the average) to about 40, effectively condensing the time available for the better team to make this superiority tangible.
   881. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 01, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4430493)

Clock management/delaying the game has long been one of Sam Allardyce’s tricks. Against better teams, his sides have always played very very slowly, delaying anything they can. That way the game might go from 50 minutes of ball in play (I think this is about the average) to about 40, effectively condensing the time available for the better team to make this superiority tangible.


This is true of any sport with a clock. American football has the same thing, some teams dragging out the full 40 seconds between snaps, basketball definitely has moments where players take their time going to put the ball inbounds (the five second count doesn't start immediately).

I agree with Zack in 878 completely. I don't like the gamesmanship but I think the alternatives are worse.
   882. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4430506)
The one rule I really want them to add is that the opposing team gets to punch Sergio Ramos in the fase at least once per game without punishment.
   883. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 01, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4430520)
Is a referee allowed to give a straight red for, let's say, excessive gamesmanship?
   884. richallen Posted: May 01, 2013 at 11:34 AM (#4430521)
No, you get a yellow card for it. Then another if you do it again.
   885. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 11:34 AM (#4430522)
Sid Lowe on Mourinho

Drama queens! Sometimes people need to take a deep breath. It really is just a soccer team.
   886. Swedish Chef Posted: May 01, 2013 at 02:18 PM (#4430753)
Drama queens! Sometimes people need to take a deep breath. It really is just a soccer team.

There are talk radio dedicated to all things Real 24/7*, of course there will be drama.

*) And that was what was on when I went to the airport at 5AM this winter. As far as I could tell the main subject of the call-in show was exactly how great Casillas was, much animated discussion was had.
   887. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 02:45 PM (#4430804)
Enjoy Gus Johnson, suckers. I'm watching with Brit announcers as is proper.
   888. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 02:47 PM (#4430808)
Alex Song lives!
   889. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 02:49 PM (#4430811)
That was a pass back!
   890. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4430818)
There is no way in hell Barca are scoring 4 in this game.
   891. I am going to be Frank Posted: May 01, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4430821)
It was a back pass. I think the color guy is worse than Gus Johnson.

These are some weird lineups - although if I was Barca I woul d be salivating at a van Buyten/Boateng central partnership.

Edit: "weird" in that a lot of players are playing based on suspensions/injuries.
   892. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4430849)

Edit: "weird" in that a lot of players are playing based on suspensions/injuries.


On that note if it's still 4-0 at the half I think Lahm and/or Schweinsteiger should probably come off. Both are a yellow away from a suspension and there is no need to lose them.
   893. Baldrick Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4430852)
Messi would have buried at least one of these chances so far. Maybe two.
   894. I am going to be Frank Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4430860)
I would assume Messi comes on at the half. I don't know if I would take Lahm and Schweinie off at half - at 60 minutes for sure.
   895. Mefisto Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4430861)
Is there a worse announcer than Gus Johnson? I cut him some slack early on because he was new, but he's no better. He doesn't understand the game, but he can't even get the pronunciation of players' names right. Listening to him is more painful than watching this Barca team try to score.
   896. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4430863)
It's probably not great for Barca that Song has completed the most passes for them.
   897. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4430872)
Is there a worse announcer than Gus Johnson?

I got Gary Neville! Woot!
   898. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:37 PM (#4430874)
Chelsea and Mourinho are already negotiating.
   899. Mefisto Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:40 PM (#4430881)
I actually like Neville. He's refreshing. Johnson is just bad.

But I didn't mean to limit it to soccer. I'm hard put to come up with an announcer in any sport who's worse.
   900. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 01, 2013 at 03:42 PM (#4430882)
But I didn't mean to limit it to soccer. I'm hard put to come up with an announcer in any sport who's worse.

There's probably a thousand way tie for the honor of worst announcer.
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