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As for why there are more Americans in England than Mexicans, besides the financial aspect, I would guess the language is a big part of it.
(Looking at the Wiki page I see they have a 2nd and 3rd at the Euro's and a 4th at the WC. I just seems like they went dark as a national team for the 90's and 00's.)
Not that I can blame anyone for it, but people always forget that Jermaine Jones is a starter for Schalke.
Yes, and they're at least on the level of say, France, who have a roster full of players on top teams in England and France (and a few in Spain). Where you play doesn't matter, all that matters is that you are good enough. It didn't matter for Landon Donovan or Gerardo Torrado that they didn't play in top teams in top leagues, they were still excellent players.
That said, it is a very striking example of this particular phenomenon (especially given the weakness of Belgian clubs internationally). The English "Golden Generation" was largely seen as a joke outside the UK.
On the Americans Abroad question, I think people are discounting the cultural, legal and economic factors at play here. US players in the EU are competing for a limited number of non-EU spots, generally against Brazilians, Argentines and very talented Africans. Just look at how much easier it is for a Latin American player who can claim a EU passport to get a job with a EU club, and you have a measure of one barrier to entry.
Though what's interesting is that this Spanish generation didn't have the "golden" tag from the time they were playing in U-19 and U-21 tournaments, the way the others (and the Belgians) did. Their emergence at youth level has actually followed on their success at the top.
I will be the person with the "he's obviously an accountant" look (which in this case is true...)
Any word as to if the game actually starts right at 4 PM, or are there some sort of pre-game entertainment and the like? Just want to best time out how long I have and still be able to make it in time for the start of the match.
We shall see. I have two friends that have had UVerse for two years with no issue. Comcast was a constant issue for me with bandwidth issues for both internet and cable.
In what part of the city do you live? I am in Wicker Park and it seems the facilities over here for UVerse are solid.
That's not going to narrow it down. Can you PM me using my profile?
ursus makes a good point about the difficulty for Americans playing in Europe. Getting a work permit for England requires you to play a lot with the national team or be an "exceptional talent" and, I believe, Serie A limits a team to two non-EU players. There is a ridiculous amount of competition for those non-EU spots. Of course, I also don't think we have as many good players as England, Mexico, etc. If the US is ever going to be a power MLS has to become a better league.
I'm pretty sure the game starts at 4.
I thought I remembered reading something awhile ago where Belgium was using some rather radical development methods. I can't for the life of me remember where I read it though, maybe someone else knows.
re: Gus Johnson
I've started to realize how hard it must be to have announcers that a broad range of people like. Personally I like Gus Johnson, but there are also a lot of people that don't. And yes, Joe Buck sprung forth Athena like from my head as an example of what I don't like in an announcer. Its an interesting move from Johnson. I guess he got tired of waiting for his shot at the NFL and college basketball. I hope it works out for him.
Come on. That's absurd.
I agree on Milner for the most part. But Dempsey's not that much better than him, if he's better at all. James Milner carried Aston Villa, a very good side during Milner's tenure - better than Dempsey's Fulham certainly, on his back for significant periods during his time there. Milner's one of the best utility players in the league, along with Zabaleta. Nothing flashy, just sound and solid play at a variety of positions.
The fact that Milner was subbed off in a bunch of England's matches (including that really bad game he had against the US, prior to which he had been seriously ill, IIRC) says to me that England's squad is really good. It doesn't say to me that Dempsey's better than Milner. Dempsey would struggle to make the England squad, let alone get starts for them. Milner would walk into the US team and, just like Dempsey, be one of the last guys you'd dream of subbing off.
EDIT: Let's also remember that we are comparing one of the worst (really, least good) players who's an England squad regular to the back-to-back winner of the Best American Player award.
Don't you think that has more to do with the depth of the squad than they ability of the player? Hell, RVP was not consistently locked in for Holland the last two major competitions...does that mean he wasn't very good or just that Holland had a #### ton of talent at his position?
EDIT: Coke to Mattbert.
Not sure Joe Hart will E-6 next time we meet up...
This is not a compelling argument.
Not when he's subbed off in almost every game he played in the biggest tournaments.
Damn, I thought SPURS THINK FACTORY would be much more complimentary of Dempsey.
Won't matter. Something else will happen. We are the mountain they shall never climb, the river they shall never pass, the dream they shall never remember as they drink their boggy ales and shake their fist at a gray sky that will never warm...
America never loses to England at anything. We've been kicking (or saving) your ass since 1776. The best you can manage is a draw (1812, 2010).
%
Also, we shouldn't blame the lovely bloke Joe Hart for that howler. That was not his shame!
Milner would be a completely locked on national team starter if he were American. For England, he's competing with a bunch of other good players who would also be locked on starters for the USA Mannschaft.
It was only an argument that James Milner is overrated. I've never been impressed by him. Nice player, nothing more. Yeah, he'd be a starter on the US, but he's not better than Dempsey.
I'm a one man CITY THINK FACTORY who thinks Milner is a better player than Dempsey (though it's a weird comparison because they're very different), but I think Mattbert made the most relevant point, which is that Milner being subbed off and Dempsey not being subbed off has everything to do with the talent (or lack thereof) around them.
Dempsey-Gomez
Jones-Bradley-Zusi
Williams
Johnson-Bocanegra-Cameron-Chandler
Howard
Not at all surprised to see Klinsmann go with Gomez over Altidore.
EDIT: Now reading a more specific assignment of midfielders.
I think overpaid/overvalued would be more accurate- City paid a boatload more for him than he was probably worth. But I don't think he's particularly overrated. He's good enough to merit a rotation spot on the 2nd best team in the league.
Whatever happens tonight, I don't think we should forget that the senior team is only half of the job Klinsmann signed up for. He said he also wanted to revamp the way talent is developed domestically but, obviously, that's harder to judge in the short term.
Zusi-Jones-Bradley
Williams
Johnson-Bocanegra-Cameron-Chandler
Howard
That's kind of yech. Hopefully Clint has his magic boots on today.
That lineup will require lots of running by Johnson. I hope he's up to it.
But Klinsmann had to find a way to include both Jones and Williams in his midfield. Ugh.
With this lineup I'll be happy with a point.
You make a good point.
It should be the opposite way. Gomez has a history of being a very good off the bench player, both for club and country, Altidore doesn't. I'd rather start the better and bigger Jozy and have him wear down the opposition for 60-75 minutes then bring in Gomez.
Klinsmann said yesterday he considers Jones to be one of the most important players on the team. So we need to resign ourselves to the fact that unless he's suspended he's starting. Jones is also apparently, for lack of a better term, a coach's pet with Klinsmann. After his experiences in Germany with his players complaining to him that is probably one factor why Klinsmann rates him highly.
I'm guessing Bradley will be lined up on the left with Johnson. He probably won't have to run that much. Timmy Chandler on the other hand ....
And in his first test he failed spectacularly when the US failed to qualify on home soil for the Olympics with his hand picked roster and his hand picked coach.
I didn't like the hiring when it happened and Klinsmann has done nothing to win me over. I think this team is going to barely qualify.
Bradley is in the middle. Johnson will have Jones in front of him. Good luck with that Fabian. Chandler has Zusi in front of him, that should be okay. Danny Williams will be doing god knows what.
Milner always seemed like one of those guys who would do whatever the coach asked him to do. Hard worker, versatile and a decent crosser of the ball. I think most good teams could use that type of guy, plus he is skilled enough to be that kind of player on the reigning PL champions, and Mancini seems to agree. He's not the same kind of player as Dempsey.
I haven't watched a US game in quite a while. Not familiar with Zusi at all. So is a draw a good result?
(Gomez v Altidore points caveated by the fact that I've seen all of two, maybe, AZ games and even less of Gomez.)
I do.
I see your point, but Gomez is playing in his normal time zone in weather he's completely used to while Jozy is coming from a cold weather environment and is dealing with jet lag. I'd prefer Jozy but I can see the logic of going with Gomez.
Hart; Johnson, Cole, Cahill, Smalling, Gerrard, Walcott, Wilshere, Cleverley,Rooney, Welbeck.
4-3-3? 4-2-3-1?
Yes.
I'd rather see Sacha Kljestan. Jones is a turnover machine with little ability to get the ball forward and of course is a yellow card waiting to happen. He doesn't bring anything to the table not already on the field that Bradley and a holding midfielder don't. When Kljestan has played, the offense has flowed.
No Spurs. Well done, Roy. Let the other clubs get their players crocked.
Count me as one who would take Japan over the US. I think this current team is a mess. I don't think Klinsmann is helping, but even a good coach is going to struggle to get results with this player pool.
D 2 Dani Alves
D 3 David Luiz
D 5 Ramires
D 6 Adriano
M 4 Dante
M 8 Paulinho
M 10 Ronaldinho
F 7 Oscar
F 9 Luis Fabiano
F 11 Neymar
Luis Fabiano!
(*)WhoScored has him rated at a 7, but given the rankings everyone else in the game received, that appears to be right around average. That seems right -- I'm not trying to say he was bad, just that I don't quite understand your clammoring over his inclusion.
Ronaldinho! They're "only" 32, they seem older than that to me.
With this roster as weak as it is, I really don't like that both Bradley and Dempsey are sitting on yellows.
I recall that DA (I'm assuming) and I sided on this a few months back but "our" argument I think is mostly that he is starting and playing reasonably well for Anderlecht. It's worth seeing what he can do instead of putting Germans-with-American-Serviceman-fathers in an unnatural position.
[Edit] I don't think that Kljestan has done enough based on my reading and viewing (I've seen little of his actual play, although thanks to the CL I saw some) to take a spot over somebody that is entrenched in the lineup. But he wouldn't be doing that.
Absolutely. The US has a tough run to start the hex so every point that avoids too much desperation later is a plus. NBC Sports had a nice piece this morning detailing that 15 points is probably the magic number. The average for CONCACAF third place teams has been 4.25 road points so stealing one early in a losable game would be a nice get.
No Altidore makes absolutely no sense to me at all. I agree with CWS in the "starter vs. closer" comp for Jozy and Gomez. I like Zusi a lot so I'm fired up for that but I'll join the chorus unhappy with Jones' inclusion.
He doesn't "wow" me either, but Jones does nothing for me. Kljestan has gotten the job done. He's an upgrade in areas the US really need upgrades in when Jones is on the field. And FWIW, Anderlecht plays much better with him in the lineup. I am trying to find details but their record with and without him is impressive.
Yeah that was me, if only because I'm the only person here that has called for Kljestan to get a shot. I'm not expecting great things. I'm just tired of seeing Jones out there game after game, like we all are, and tired of the midfield struggle to get the ball forward, struggle to get good service to the strikers. This team needs offense and Klinsmann keeps putting three defensive midfielders out there and it never works. He's got options and he doesn't use them.
As much as I like Jozy, he doesn't run enough to wear down the defense.
I'm guessing Jones will be on the left. He can provide the work rate to cover Johnson's overlaps, and Bradley will be freer to help up top.
I don't see Kljestan replacing Jones. Kljestan would replace Zusi.
Johnson--Cameron--Bocanegra--Chandler
Jones--Bradley
Zusi?--Kljestan--Dempsey
Altidore
I don't know the US roster very well (for example, I have no idea who Zusi is), but isn't that a more balanced team than the mooted starting lineup? Either that or replace Zusi with Edu and push Bradley farther forward into something like his Roma role at the top of the midfield triangle, with Kljestan and Dempsey coming inside to combine with him and Altidore.
Serious question: when has Klinsmann put the best lineup on the field? Every game he's got people out of position, seemingly every game he's got someone on the bench that is better than someone who is starting. And then the team struggles to score. It's frustrating.
Klinsmann's lineup is a little too conservative for my taste but I understand where he's coming from.
Dempsey-Altidore
Williams-Jones-Bradley-E. Johnson
F. Johnson-Cameron-Gonzalez-Chandler
Howard
It's unclear how exactly the midfielders lineup, but that's the order they gave them in.
Oops, yeah. I got the fullbacks on the wrong sides. Bradley would be the guy making most the forward runs from deep in my hypothetical 4-2-3-1. Jones would be playing the more defensive half of that pivot, so Bradley should be spending more time forward in a game that should see the US have the advantage in possession.
Dempsey-Altidore
Williams-Jones-Bradley-E. Johnson
F. Johnson-Cameron-Gonzalez-Chandler
Howard
That's not bad. I'm assuming that's more of a 4-3-1-2, though. Williams, Jones, and Bradley as the three midfielders. Dempsey as the trequartista. Altidore and Johnson up top.
Wales lead Austria 1-0. No points for guessing who scored the goal.
That makes sense to me. Klinsmann loves the 4-3-3 despite it being a square hole for this round peg of a team. They've listed before a line up of 2 strikers and 4 midfielders with Johnson apparently wide only for him to play up high. So I think it will look like:
Dempsey-Altidore-E. Johnson
Williams-Bradley-Jones
Two triangles with Altidore and Bradley each playing higher up, the midfield being tight. We'll find out in a little bit.
I don't know. Also based on the Welsh lineup, I would guess he has a free role behind Bellamy in a 4-4-1-1. Allen, Ledley, Collison, and Vaughan are all central midfielders, so I'm not sure how that shakes out. If I had to guess, it's probably Allen and Ledley in the middle with Vaughan and Collison pushed slightly wider.
That also makes sense. It's pretty much the same either way. I think the only real mystery is whether Klinsmann will ask Dempsey to play centrally a la Tottenham or drift in from the left a la Fulham.
The commentator for The Guardian has it as 4-1-2-3. But yes, they have been attacking throughout the first half, from the report (I can't actually watch it, so I'm going by the match report).
There's been a fair amount of wayward passing and weak tackling from both sides. But on the whole, it's looked good.
Klinsmann hasn't impressed me yet, tonight is his first real chance to show that yes, this team is progressing and that it has the quality to not only qualify but do so in style.
Pity. That 2 banks of 4 lineup in the Euros was absolutely setting the world on fire.
If you are Brazilian, it counts as 'exotic'.
I'm playing football manager in the background, just got FC Halifax into League 1. I always stall out in the Premiership, can never get the budget to work.
I used to work with a guy who had a boat named Fred. He let his 6 and 4 year old kids pick the name and that's what they came up with.
If it's really hot and humid, like it is in Honduras, it's not the worst idea for the opening 15 minutes or so and try to tire them out for later. But only if that's the game plan. And counter attacking hasn't been the game plan under Klinsmann.
The Greeks owe money on their safe deposit boxes in Zurich and the Swiss wanted to go somewhere warm for a couple of days.
Voices in your head?
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