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Tuesday, January 01, 2013

OT: The Soccer Thread: January 2013

Because the first sporting event of 2013 that I watched was a soccer match.

fra paolo Posted: January 01, 2013 at 03:38 PM | 1784 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

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   1301. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM (#4355879)
Goal LEEDS!!

Is there an evil team you don't like?
   1302. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: January 27, 2013 at 11:03 AM (#4355888)
Ugh. Naughton in his natural position at RB has been execrable, Huddlestone's still useless, and the 4-6-0 formation stopped producing good chances at about the fifteen minute mark. That young Leeds fullback who has been winning most of his battles against Bale - Aiden White, I think - looks like a hell of a player.
   1303. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 27, 2013 at 11:10 AM (#4355890)
Nice goal by Leeds.
   1304. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 27, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4355895)
Big draw today! Hope Everton gets Luton at home!
   1305. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 27, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4355905)
I can't even get upset as that felt so inevitable. I don't know what it is, but Spurs just can't get the adrenaline pumping for cup games the last few years. Seemed like Caulker and Naughton had a post Man U big game hangover, too. 'Arry never seem to care so much about the cups and maybe that's gotten into the DNA a little. Still, Leeds played well. Brown and Diouf are pricks but they did a great job breaking up play and frustrating Spurs. I thought they deserved to go through.
   1306. DA Baracus Posted: January 27, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4355907)
   1307. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 27, 2013 at 12:10 PM (#4355908)
Jeez, have the games been fixed today to promote the "magic" of the FA Cup?
   1308. fra paolo Posted: January 27, 2013 at 12:13 PM (#4355911)
Catania vs Fiorentina was certainly an entertaining match. Three goals, a sending-off, and a very 'Latin' game with a cerebral first half followed by some pacy moves on the break together with a mano a mano contest for the ball at the third goal to add a bit of visceral interest to the second half. Catania reminded me of Prandelli's Fiorentina, a bit outplayed tactically in the first half, but making half-time adjustments that work well.

But that's about all I'm going to say about it.

Fiorentina's Ljajic is lacking something when going for goal, but I think he could work well in the right system. I've really gone off Jovetic. Something has messed his attitude up. I don't know if he's afraid of injuring himself again or what. There's some good stuff to work with in the side, but the 3-5-2 they are playing might not be best suited to the players available, which is down to Montella.
   1309. Mattbert Posted: January 27, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4355912)
That young Leeds fullback who has been winning most of his battles against Bale - Aiden White, I think - looks like a hell of a player.

Sam Byram was the right back.
   1310. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: January 27, 2013 at 12:22 PM (#4355915)
Yeah, I think it was when Bale had swapped sides a couple times. He beat the right back pretty soundly.
   1311. Langer Monk Posted: January 27, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4355919)
How long before there's a fistfight between Oldham and Liverpool?
   1312. Mattbert Posted: January 27, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4355922)
Yeah, I think it was when Bale had swapped sides a couple times. He beat the right back pretty soundly.

Oh, okay. Yes, Aiden White was the left back. He handled Bale reasonably well but got skinned by Lennon a number of times. Couldn't tell if he was a right-footer playing left, but that would explain it.
   1313. ursus arctos Posted: January 27, 2013 at 12:49 PM (#4355935)
Excellent analysis of a frustrating match for the Viola by fra paolo.

I would have taken Jovetic off in the second half. Perhaps it is the combination of the incessant transfer speculation and the fear of injury that lies at the root of the problem, but he isn't close to being the player he was before the injury.
   1314. Langer Monk Posted: January 27, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4355949)
Terrific header for 3-1 lead.
   1315. ursus arctos Posted: January 27, 2013 at 01:12 PM (#4355950)
Well, at least Tottenham wont be the victim of the day's most notable upset.
   1316. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 27, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4355958)
   1317. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 27, 2013 at 01:57 PM (#4355974)
Owls! Owls are everywhere! GAHHHHH!
   1318. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: January 27, 2013 at 01:59 PM (#4355975)
I thought Chelsea was bad lol
   1319. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: January 27, 2013 at 02:40 PM (#4355994)
5th round draw looks pretty blah. Though I guess this one did too, and we got some fun upsets.

Huddersfield Town or Leicester City v Wigan Athletic
MK Dons v Barnsley
Oldham Athletic v Everton
Luton Town v Millwall
Arsenal v Blackburn
Man City v Leeds United
Man Utd v Reading
Middlesbrough v Chelsea or Brentford
   1320. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 27, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4356002)
Cape Verde and South Africa are through to the knock out stage. Cape Verde is becoming quite a story.
   1321. ursus arctos Posted: January 27, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4356013)
An interesting aspect of the draw is that notwithstanding the fact that none of the matches pair current Premier League clubs, with the exception of the first two pairings, all of those fixtures have featured in the English top flight at some time in the past.

You could reduce that to one if you were willing to grant MK Dons' Wimbledon's history, but I'd never do that. Wigan's relatively recent ascent to League status (1978) and genuinely recent rise to prominence (2005) seriously limits the number of clubs they've met in the top flight.
   1322. Langer Monk Posted: January 27, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4356020)
I'd post that Messi's got 4 today - but he may score a fifth before I finish.
   1323. ursus arctos Posted: January 27, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4356026)
33 goals in 21 Liga matches so far this season.

First Barca player ever to score 200 in La Liga.

25 years old.
   1324. fra paolo Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:08 PM (#4356050)
MK Dons v Barnsley
Luton Town v Millwall
Man City v Leeds United
Middlesbrough v Chelsea or Brentford


MK 'Dons' used to be Wimbledon FC, the side whose matches I used to go to, as I didn't live far from Selhurst Park and you could always get a ticket. (I was also an Expos' fan.) It's kind of shame that they are having a good run this season while AFC Wimbledon (Wimbledon's real successors) looks like they might fall out of the Football League at the first attempt.

Luton vs Milwall has a dimension that might be lost on people here. Luton employed a number of good players of Afro-Caribbean heritage at the turn of the 1980s, who carried them into the First Division where they spent a decade until falling out of it in 1991. Milwall, meanwhile, who used to (and may still do) bandy about the slogan 'Nobody likes us and we don't care' is traditionally seen as a 'white working class' club with racist fans. (They had some of the most feared fans in the South, along with Portsmouth's, in the 'punch-up' days prior to Heysel and such.) We had some African cleaners in one place I worked and a London wide-boy type production editor who was an ardent clubber and Milwall fan. He would bring a Milwall mug to work, and it would quickly get chipped and then broken by the cleaners. It would be nice, with Luton and "Sarf Lun'nen" so close, if some 1970s/1980s-style crowd trouble occurred, just for nostalgic types like me.

As long as Leeds and Chelsea are in with a chance of meeting, this FA cup competition has the potential for something we haven't seen much of in recent years. Those two clubs really don't get on, and in the past produced some of the nastiest, dour, physical engagements on a football pitch in English history. It is possibly the purest expression of England's North vs South rivalry in sports.
   1325. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:35 PM (#4356065)
Torino even with Inter at the half. I've actually been able to see all Shooty teams except Partick this weekend. A rarity!
   1326. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:57 PM (#4356082)
Torino! Meggiorini with his second!
   1327. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:14 PM (#4356101)
Goddam Cambiasso. Get old already!
   1328. ursus arctos Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:33 PM (#4356116)
   1329. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:40 PM (#4356122)
A draw for Inter and Torino. Torino had 3 great chances to win it and just couldn't quite make it happen. This is obviously not a vintage Inter team but that would have been a very nice 3 points to take in Milan.
   1330. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: January 27, 2013 at 06:15 PM (#4356148)
As long as Leeds and Chelsea are in with a chance of meeting, this FA cup competition has the potential for something we haven't seen much of in recent years. Those two clubs really don't get on, and in the past produced some of the nastiest, dour, physical engagements on a football pitch in English history. It is possibly the purest expression of England's North vs South rivalry in sports.

Granted, there's a vast difference between the FA Cup and the League Cup, but they did play each other in the League Cup this year.
   1331. ursus arctos Posted: January 27, 2013 at 07:09 PM (#4356174)
Turkish television is reporting that Drogba is on his way to Galatasaray for the remainder of this season and the next.
   1332. DA Baracus Posted: January 27, 2013 at 08:36 PM (#4356204)
Galatasaray is putting together quite the team for 2010.
   1333. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 27, 2013 at 11:42 PM (#4356287)
So I'm not going to pretend to understand soccer TV rights, but I'm watching Fox Soccer news and the picture quality of some Serie A highlights are terrible - like bad stream quality. Its not like its the Thai league or college soccer - its Serie A!
   1334. SuperGrover Posted: January 28, 2013 at 12:49 AM (#4356319)
So I'm not going to pretend to understand soccer TV rights, but I'm watching Fox Soccer news and the picture quality of some Serie A highlights are terrible - like bad stream quality. Its not like its the Thai league or college soccer - its Serie A!


Welcome to BEiN!

I honestly cannot tell the difference between their SD and HD channels. It really is terrible.
   1335. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 08:08 AM (#4356411)
Bild is reporting Spurs have a deal with Schalke to bring in Lewis Holtby now instead of in the summer.

Egypt is the big story of the day, of course. Honestly, I don't really know enough about the situation there to comment in an even faux constructive way--the way I usually do about soccer related things. It seems like hell on earth there right now. I'm not ignoring it, I just don't know how to process it right now.
   1336. ursus arctos Posted: January 28, 2013 at 09:51 AM (#4356430)
It's horrible, all the more so given the euphoria following Mubarak's fall.

Zeman has been given the unusual "vote of no confidence" by Roma, who are "evaluating their options". He may not last the week.
   1337. Swedish Chef Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:13 AM (#4356435)
Schalke got 2 million euros and a friendly for Holtby.
   1338. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:18 AM (#4356438)
There's maybe something to be said about the weird way that sports can intersect with politics, as the riots and the response have much more to do with a combination of revolutionary opposition to the Mubarak-like state apparatus Morsi is now building, and significantly regional concerns in Port Said that I don't have nearly the expertise to understand - but it comes out of sports in a real way, and our affiliations with our teams and our localities, and that affiliation is an undeniable part of the protests. But that's all kind of bloodless, and what's going on in Egypt is just awful.

------------

And moving on, the Holtby deal is one Spurs need to make. It appears he can play deeper or more advanced positions in central midfield, and Spurs need depth in the deeper positions and a more creative player in advanced midfield has been a clear need for the last month or so. Reportedly the differences were in the range of €500k, so I figure it ought to be done now, and it'll get done if it isn't.
   1339. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:21 AM (#4356441)
Everton spend 8.5 million on Leroy Fer from Twente. I have not heard of him before though I assume if Everton are forking over that much he must be pretty good. I'm surprised Twente would weaken their squad since their in a tight battle for the Dutch championship. Balotelli to Milan looks more and more likely.
   1340. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:24 AM (#4356445)
Everton have signed midfielder Leroy Fer from FC Twente. The fee is being reported at around £8.5M, though the sourcing on that is weak. He's a central midfielder who appears to have played in more of an attacking role for Twente, but could also play a defensive role. Assume he pairs with Fellaini as the spine of the club in midfield, but which will play where?

EDIT: misread my , plus coke to Shooty
   1341. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:25 AM (#4356448)
It would be nice, with Luton and "Sarf Lun'nen" so close, if some 1970s/1980s-style crowd trouble occurred, just for nostalgic types like me.
You didn't get enough of that during the Milwall-Hammers FA Cup game from a couple of seasons back?
   1342. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:27 AM (#4356452)
Fer's their most expensive signing in years, and he's a DM. So, looks like Fellaini is gone in the summer.

Fer, nicknamed "The Bouncer" due to his physical strength, hit headlines last year when he spent 22,000 on a horse for his girlfriend, only to find she could not keep it as she lives in a block of flats.


Hahahahaha.
   1343. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:27 AM (#4356453)
Fer, nicknamed "The Bouncer" due to his physical strength, hit headlines last year when he spent 22,000 on a horse for his girlfriend, only to find she could not keep it as she lives in a block of flats.

This is all I know about Fer from The Guardian. Oh, and he's supposed to be the next Patrick Vieira.

edit: I'll take my coke from Matt and give it straight to DA.
   1344. Swedish Chef Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:28 AM (#4356454)
I don't see how Roma can be disappointed with Zeman, they got what they bought, an exciting but insane coach. Maybe it looked like a better idea on paper.
   1345. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:35 AM (#4356461)
Fer's their most expensive signing in years, and he's a DM. So, looks like Fellaini is gone in the summer.
Fellaini's been a revelation playing off the striker this year, though, and Everton only shifted him back because of recent injuries. You don't think it's at least possible they want to go a season and a half with Fellaini and Fer playing together? With Fellaini's contract locked down through 2015-2016 and the huge tv deal kicking off next year, Everton shouldn't have to sell Fellaini unless he makes trouble, right?
   1346. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM (#4356464)
This is all I know about Fer from The Guardian. Oh, and he's supposed to be the next Patrick Vieira.

Maybe Arsenal should have been in on him then.
   1347. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM (#4356467)
5th round draw looks pretty blah. Though I guess this one did too, and we got some fun upsets.

Huddersfield Town or Leicester City v Wigan Athletic
MK Dons v Barnsley
Oldham Athletic v Everton
Luton Town v Millwall
Arsenal v Blackburn
Man City v Leeds United
Man Utd v Reading
Middlesbrough v Chelsea or Brentford


I'm actually excited about this draw. There are at least two non-EPL teams going to the quarterfinals and I think both games involving Manchester teams have the potential to be very interesting. The only uninteresting draws to me are Arsenal/Blackburn and Middlesborough/Chelsea (assuming). I think in each case you have a clear difference in class but both teams are recent enough EPL contestants that they won't be taken lightly.

I don't think Everton is a cinch to beat Oldham. They should be but Everton have the capacity to lay an egg whenever they step on the field and I don't think Leicester or Huddersfield should view Wigan as an insurmountable behemoth.

Now watch Blackburn and 'Boro advance.
   1348. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:46 AM (#4356468)
You don't think it's at least possible they want to go a season and a half with Fellaini and Fer playing together?


I'm sure they want to keep Fellaini for years. But someone's likely going to give them an offer they can't refuse or an offer that Fellaini can't refuse and they'll sell him. This looks like a pre-emptive replacement signing to me. I like Everton so I hope I'm wrong.
   1349. jmurph Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4356474)
Maybe Arsenal should have been in on him then.


No no, it's impossible to get value in the transfer market. Just ignore what Everton, Newcastle, and Tottenham have been doing.
   1350. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:15 AM (#4356487)
Aresenal supposedly after Jovetic. Yeah, right...

In the biggest news of the window, Alan Hutton is off to Real Mallorca, proving that La Liga is on the verge of collapse. Spurs officially announced Lewis Holtby signing and then immediately took it off their official site. I imagine it will be officially official momentarily.
   1351. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:26 AM (#4356494)
Cavani has been sold!

edit: And Holtby is now officially Spurs.
   1352. Mattbert Posted: January 28, 2013 at 12:10 PM (#4356515)
I am happy the Holtby deal got done now. He gives Spurs some more depth in midfield, which is just as critical a need as striker in my view. If Dembele gets another knock and has to sit a few games out again, they'd be pretty cooked. Adding Holtby should relieve Dembele of some of the creative burden and hopefully result in a more dangerous attacking thrust from the middle.
   1353. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 28, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4356533)
In the biggest news of the window, Alan Hutton is off to Real Mallorca


Ahem, did you not hear that Bolton signed their youth team striker Tom Eaves to a new three-year contract?
   1354. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4356538)
Ahem, did you not hear that Bolton signed their youth team striker Tom Eaves to a new three-year contract?

Sure, of course! But Alan Hutton laying waste to Spain's venerable football team--nay!--to their entire culture is just slightly more important. Only slightly, though.

Seriously, though, how crap do you have to be for Aston ####### Villa not to want you back right now?
   1355. ursus arctos Posted: January 28, 2013 at 12:58 PM (#4356549)
Alan Hutton follows in the footsteps of other untalented Brits who have plied their trade in Spain.

I'm thinking of Vinny Samways at Las Palmas or Mark Draper at Rayo. These guys are different from the failed phenom strain exemplified by Jermaine Pennant (Zaragoza), Dalian Atkinson (Sociedad) or Raphael Meade (Betis).
   1356. Jeffo has an El Camino full of Rampage Posted: January 28, 2013 at 01:01 PM (#4356550)
Well as someone who supports Everton that was a nice little bit of news this morning. I think, as #1345 says, the increase in TV money for next season means this is easier for the banks to allow now. I did see something online (not sure if correct) that the deal has a low upfront payment of the total agreed fee, which obviously makes it easier for a club like Everton to pay.

And while I love the horse story, just the possibilty of less "Phil Neville - midfielder" experiences is good enough for me. This helps somewhat to cover for the Gibson and (to a lesser extent since he plays wide) Mirallas injuries, which have really slowed the team down the last month or so.

Moyes certainly did a good job keeping this one quiet, first I heard of anything was today. Should be an entertaining next few days with the mid-week matches and the deadline on Thursday.
   1357. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: January 28, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4356555)
These guys are different from the failed phenom strain exemplified by Jermaine Pennant (Zaragoza), Dalian Atkinson (Sociedad) or Raphael Meade (Betis).
And of course, we can't forget stars who did nothing, hello Michael Owen and Jonathan Woodgate. I guess that's a smaller group than the list of stars who moved and actually accomplished something: Beckham, Lineker, McManaman and so on.
   1358. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 01:21 PM (#4356558)
And of course, we can't forget stars who did nothing, hello Michael Owen and Jonathan Woodgate. I guess that's a smaller group than the list of stars who moved and actually accomplished something: Beckham, Lineker, McManaman and so on.

It's the great near miss I wonder about--Brian Clough managing Barcelona.
   1359. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 01:58 PM (#4356585)
   1360. zack Posted: January 28, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4356620)
Becoming a pilot seems to be a semi-common hobby for retired athletes. It's something to spend a shitload of money on, it requires above-normal physical and geospatial skills, and it's somewhat dangerous.
   1361. ursus arctos Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:00 PM (#4356631)
Drogba to Galatasaray is official.

Their Champions League tie with Schalke looks a bit different than it did when the draw was made.
   1362. zack Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4356640)
Their Champions League tie with Schalke looks a bit different than it did when the draw was made.

Is Sneijder cup-tied, because he played in the Europa league? How does that work, exactly?
   1363. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:19 PM (#4356644)
Looks like Defoe will be out 4 weeks or so and Togo has a good chance to advance in the ACON so no Adebayor. Looks like this is Jonathan Obika's big chance at Spurs unless the Gary Hooper or Alvaro Negredo rumors are true.
   1364. ursus arctos Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4356668)
1362, I'm pretty sure that Sneijder isn't cup tied, because the rule (as I recall it) allows you one joker who played for another club in the same competition. Drogba wouldn't be an issue, as you are allowed a total of three new players.

See Section 18 here.
   1365. SuperGrover Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:50 PM (#4356679)
Looks like Defoe will be out 4 weeks or so


But didn't AVB just state he will be available for Norwich?

At this point, shouldn't we just have football beat writers make up their own quotes like I did in high school English comp? Seems just as valuable to the average fan.
   1366. Mattbert Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:50 PM (#4356680)
1362, I'm pretty sure that Sneijder isn't cup tied, because the rule (as I recall it) allows you one joker who played for another club in the same competition.

This is my reading as well. Same reason Holtby can suit up for Tottenham against Lyon in the Europa League if desired, despite having already played for Galatasaray's pending opponent in the Champions League.
   1367. Mattbert Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4356693)
Looks like Defoe will be out 4 weeks or so and Togo has a good chance to advance in the ACON so no Adebayor. Looks like this is Jonathan Obika's big chance at Spurs unless the Gary Hooper or Alvaro Negredo rumors are true.

Where are you getting this stuff about Defoe?

Togo play Tunisia on January 30th to determine who goes through. Tunisia need to win outright. Togo only need a draw. I don't know how much influence the outcome of this game will have on Tottenham's approach on deadline day, but it's probably more than zero and less than frenzied fans think.

The winter window is a lousy time to be shopping for a striker, but if Defoe's really out for a month and Adebayor could be stuck in Africa for another couple weeks then Levy's finger may be hovering closer to the panic button than before.
   1368. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4356709)
Where are you getting this stuff about Defoe?

From one of the couple Spurs Community ITK's that seem reliable. Defoe being hurt would explain his absence from the bench yesterday.

The winter window is a lousy time to be shopping for a striker, but if Defoe's really out for a month and Adebayor could be stuck in Africa for another couple weeks then Levy's finger may be hovering closer to the panic button than before.


True, but shopping for strikers in the summer doesn't seem a good time for Spurs, either. Obika has been destroying teams at the reserve/youth level. Maybe he's not such a terrible option in the short term? He looked lively against Leeds--if he'd had slightly quicker feet he could've had a brace. Obviously it's not great he didn't have slightly quicker feet, but it was promising he was making the runs to get himself in position to score.
   1369. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4356710)
And of course, we can't forget stars who did nothing, hello Michael Owen and Jonathan Woodgate.


What about Robbie Keane? Not British but from the British Isles.
   1370. zack Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:14 PM (#4356712)
Thanks ursus and mattbert. Reading through the rules, it looks like there is an additional wrinkle:
a player who has been fielded in the first, second, third qualifying round or the play-offs [of a European competition] to play in [another] for another club as from the group stage.

[an additional player] may exceptionally be registered, provided that the player has not been fielded:
a) in the same competition for another club; or
b) for another club that is currently in the same competition.

So it sounds like you aren't cup tied if you only played before the group stages, or if you did play in the group stages, as long as it was in the other tournament. For the latter, only 1 of the 3 new players can play by that standard. And an un-used substitute doesn't count as playing.

So Sneijder is fine on both counts, since he didn't play in the group stage and Inter is in the Europa League.
   1371. ursus arctos Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4356713)
Keane never played in Spain. His non-Anglophone flop was at Inter.
   1372. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:19 PM (#4356720)
Damnit - for some reason I thought his, "I've followed that club since I was a boy" was about Barcelona or Madrid.
   1373. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:23 PM (#4356726)
So, what Brit player had the best career on the continent? Kevin Keegan? It wasn't very long but it seems he did well for them.

edit: "Them" being Hamburglar, of course. 2 player of the year awards, a domestic championship and a trip to the Euro Cup finals against Forest.
   1374. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4356733)
Damnit - for some reason I thought his, "I've followed that club since I was a boy" was about Barcelona or Madrid.


In fairness, it's about every club.
   1375. ursus arctos Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:27 PM (#4356734)
It's very difficult to beat Keegan's peak, those player of the year awards were Ballons d'Or.
   1376. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:29 PM (#4356740)
In fairness, it's about every club.

Robbie Keane has dreamed of playing for clubs not yet in existence. A lunatic? To some. A visionary? Well, no, not that, either.
   1377. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:30 PM (#4356741)
So, what Brit player had the best career on the continent? Kevin Keegan? It wasn't very long but it seems he did well for them.


If Keegan, then Lineker?

EDIT: Keegan. Ballon d'Or FTW.
   1378. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:31 PM (#4356743)
Robbie Keane has dreamed of playing for clubs not yet in existence. A lunatic? To some. A visionary? Well, no, not that, either.


He's a dreamer. Also it's not the teams, but the nations that count too. He always wanted to play in America.
   1379. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4356760)
Well I don't think anyone will ever top Beckham's record of jerseys sold. I wonder if Pennant's Ferrari (or other insanely expensive sports car) is still in the airport parking lot.
   1380. ursus arctos Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:56 PM (#4356764)
Some other British and Irish players who were quite successful on the continent: Steve Archibald (Barcelona), Liam Brady (Juventus), Glenn Hoddle (Monaco), Chris Waddle (Marseille), Tony Woodcook (Koln).

Special distinction to Michael Robinson, who parlayed a good spell at Osasuna into a career as one of Spain's leading pundits.
   1381. Mattbert Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4356784)
How about Gazza's adventure in Rome? Not long enough?
   1382. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:37 PM (#4356837)
Some other British and Irish players who were quite successful on the continent: Steve Archibald (Barcelona), Liam Brady (Juventus), Glenn Hoddle (Monaco), Chris Waddle (Marseille), Tony Woodcook (Koln).

Leaving out Paul Lambert? For shame. he did win the CL...
   1383. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:46 PM (#4356850)
Owen Hargreaves has the rare distinction of being better on the continent, than he was on the isle.
   1384. ursus arctos Posted: January 28, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4356892)
Gazza's spell at Lazio was too short and his performances too erratic.

I shouldn't have left out Lambert.

Agree with FPH about Hargreaves, though I still thought of him as Canadian when he started at Bayern.
   1385. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 28, 2013 at 06:41 PM (#4356916)
Isn't there a Scottish guy playing for one of the bigger Russian clubs?
   1386. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 06:51 PM (#4356921)
Are you thinking of Irish Aiden McGeady on Spartak?
   1387. user Posted: January 28, 2013 at 06:59 PM (#4356927)
So, what Brit player had the best career on the continent?


John Charles?
   1388. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 07:22 PM (#4356939)
Hey it's another discussion about the state of player development in America.

Put up or shut up Klinsmann. Probably better to write that before a meaningful game and not tomorrow's B team matchup.
   1389. ursus arctos Posted: January 28, 2013 at 09:57 PM (#4357038)
Charles is an excellent old school call.

Still revered at Juventus.
   1390. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:23 PM (#4357080)
Brek Shea does move to Stoke. $3.5-$4M.
   1391. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:35 PM (#4357083)
Yea McGeady - he came from Celtic or Ranger, right?
   1392. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:40 PM (#4357086)
Yes, he played for Celtic. And it turns out he is Scottish but qualifies for Ireland through his grandparents. So you were right.

Earlier today I read that Wigan was trying to sign him.
   1393. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 29, 2013 at 01:07 AM (#4357129)
How difficult for someone born in the UK to just switch from Welsh/Northern Irish/English/Scottish nationality?

Is Wigan going to do anything else? I know there isn't a ton of money there, but I can't imagine them not fighting to stay up.
   1394. puck Posted: January 29, 2013 at 01:54 AM (#4357145)
Marca versus Real Madrid?

Is it odd for them to contradict the Real president? I always thought they were Real's mouthpiece.

What is the story out there? So maybe there's no ultimatum, but the benching of Casillas meant something, and clearly some of the players are unhappy. How did the Chelsea players regard Mourinho? Essien obviously loves him. Inter's players seemed very fond of him and seemed to buy into his program completely. Are Real's stars just too entrenched for the manager to be a star, even if Mourinho is good at winning player loyalty? Is he too conservative? (In general, he seems to like to kill off 1-0 or 2-0 leads rather than blitz the other team off the pitch.)

Madrid sure has gone through a lot of managers since del Bosque, and had a pretty bad streak in the Champions League before Mourinho.
   1395. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 29, 2013 at 05:10 AM (#4357162)
How difficult for someone born in the UK to just switch from Welsh/Northern Irish/English/Scottish nationality?

For the most part, from a government perspective it doesn't matter. E.g. you get a UK passport, not an English passport. Scotland has a few perks, but most of them are available to all residents. Really the only main difference I can think of, is that Scottish students at Scottish universities don't pay tuition fees. So in short, I have never heard of anyone actually trying.

For footballers, you don't have to actually switch. You just have to qualify either through nationalization or ancestry, and if you qualify for more than one, you can pick which ever one you want. Once you have played an international for one country, you are tied though. No switching after that.
   1396. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 29, 2013 at 08:33 AM (#4357183)
   1397. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 29, 2013 at 08:41 AM (#4357187)
It'll be interesting to see Brek Shea at Stoke. He's a good enough athlete for the league but his game really stagnated last year. I wonder if he's one of those athletes that needs to be at the highest possible level of competition to be motivated. Sometimes in baseball a player that is clearly ready for the majors but is still in AAA will have mediocre production but then, when they get called up, they're fine. Whatever happens, here's hoping he actually gets minutes so we can find out either way.
   1398. ursus arctos Posted: January 29, 2013 at 09:46 AM (#4357213)
France Football published a ten page dossier this morning on how Qatar got the 2022 World Cup that alleges a combination of old school bribery of a number of voters and new school geo-political arm twisting by Sarko and others.

I'll get a copy in due course, but here is a brief precis in English from Who Ate All the Pies

After conducting an investigation of their own, French football magazine France Football - yes, the Ballon d’Or monsieurs – have claimed that they are sitting on empirical evidence that the bidding process for the 2022 World Cup was rigged in Qatar’s favour.

In a brief summary article posted on their website entitled ‘Should the 2022 World Cup be reassigned?‘, the magazine published the following passage:

“France Football has conducted an investigation on the appointment, without any apparent logic, of Qatar as the host country of the World 2022 , made twelve years before the competition.

“The result is instructive. Between acts of collusion and corruption that FF identifies in (our Tuesday edition), the designation has an odour of scandal that forces us to ask the only question that matters: should the 2022 World Cup vote be cancelled?”

The results of the probe allegedly prove that, back in December 2010, Qatar bought the votes of FIFA executives and won the bid – beating off strong competition from the USA, South Korea, Japan and Australia.

France Football claim the votes of Issa Hayatou and Jacques Anouma from the African Football Confederation (CAF) were purchased for $1.5 million each.

Also in 2010, Qatar spent $1.25 million to secure the four votes from FIFA’s African executives. In addition, the then-French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, asked UEFA president Michel Platini to support Qatar’s bid for “geopolitical reasons.”

France Football reckon that Sarkozy and Platini then met with Qatar’s Crown Prince Sheikh Tamim Bin Hamad Al Thani to discuss Qatar giving French football a little something back in return and, lo and behold, skip forward a year or so and the Qatar Investment Authority are purchasing 70% of Paris Saint-Germain.

Shock and… wait for it… horror!

We cannot stress enough that nothing has been proven at all, but France Football are adamant that their findings will stand up and have submitted their evidence to FIFA.
   1399. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 29, 2013 at 09:51 AM (#4357217)
We cannot stress enough that nothing has been proven at all, but France Football are adamant that their findings will stand up and have submitted their evidence to FIFA.


Well done to them for investigating this and publishing it, but is there anyone who didn't already believe this is what happened? I'm sure FIFA will be all over this investigation...Maybe Placido Domingo and Henry Kissinger have some free time to get to the bottom of it.
   1400. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 29, 2013 at 09:54 AM (#4357218)
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