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Tuesday, July 03, 2012

OT: The Soccer Thread: July

So I’m a little late, but come celebrate the Fourth of July with that most American of sports, Soccer!

NB: Soccer is not actually the most American of sports.

RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 03, 2012 at 09:09 AM | 756 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business

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   1. Juan V Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:18 AM (#4171998)
NB: Soccer is not actually the most American of sports.


So, cricket then?
   2. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4172004)
Benoit Assou-Ekotto?@AssouEkotto
Thanks u to have answer to my question lol lets be focus about the season now! Lol


I'm not sure LOL means what Disco Benny thinks it means...
   3. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:34 AM (#4172019)
Grant Holt signs a 3 year contract to stay at Norwich. He couldn't resist Chris Hughton's sad, puppy dog eyes...
   4. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:36 AM (#4172022)
Can I repost my three-sentence take on Villas-Boas to Spurs? Is that ok, guys? I'm doin' it...

Getting AVB is a go-big-or-go-home kind of move. It's only with a visionary manager that a second- or third-tier payroll club can compete at the highest level in the EPL for any real span of time. Villas-Boas may not be that coach, and he might in fact be a total disaster, but he gives fans something to hope on. And that's fun.
   5. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:44 AM (#4172029)
I'm not sure LOL means what Disco Benny thinks it means...
Kids these days use lol weird. I've gotten emails that run something like, "Dear Professor, I couldn't find the book for this week in the library. lol. is it on reserve?" It's basically just a signifier of tone, saying, I'm trying to be light-hearted and don't take this too seriously.
   6. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4172035)

Getting AVB is a go-big-or-go-home kind of move. It's only with a visionary manager that a second- or third-tier payroll club can compete at the highest level in the EPL for any real span of time. Villas-Boas may not be that coach, and he might in fact be a total disaster, but he gives fans something to hope on. And that's fun.


I don't think he's necessarily the visionary manager but I think he's capable of being very good. It feels a bit like a Francona to Valentine move though. In Harry you had a guy who had "his guys" and rode them, with AVB you have a guy who has the potential to really piss off some guys who have been very good but may in fact be better for other, younger players. I think where AVB works is that the guy you least want to piss off (Bale) is so obviously the engine that drives the team that there is no reason to pull a Youkilis on him. It's not like AVB is going to be saying "hmmmm...that young left winger we have on the reserve squad is probably a better player than Bale."

I swear when I started typing that I had a point.
   7. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4172039)
Kids these days use lol weird. I've gotten emails that run something like, "Dear Professor, I couldn't find the book for this week in the library. lol. is it on reserve?" It's basically just a signifier of tone, saying, I'm trying to be light-hearted and don't take this too seriously.


You probably have a better sense of this but it seems to me people are more likely to write like they speak today, particularly in e-mail that is still unfortunately viewed as an informal platform. Including the "LOL" is a way of including those nervous tics most of us have.
   8. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:53 AM (#4172041)
That's probably a better way of putting it. It's more a marker of informality, like a little smile or nervous laugh in the midst of speaking.
   9. Arnett Mead (Arjun) Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:54 AM (#4172043)
Few interesting "my first day" stories from Chelsea players (I didn't know Jose Mourinho spoke French either, Florent). Sam Hutchinson's is somewhat darkly hilarious.
   10. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 03, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4172045)
I don't think baseball managers are a good analogy for football managers. AVB will have significant say in player acquisitions, I'd assume, and tactics have a much larger effect on outcomes than they do in baseball. Spurs going for AVB is a much, much bigger deal than the Sox hiring Valentine, and has a much wider range of possible effects on the club.
   11. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:00 AM (#4172050)
I swear when I started typing that I had a point.

I see where you're going! Bale signed his new contract with the knowledge AVB was the guy, so I think he's on board. The rest of the team...I can't say. My guess is AVB will stress fitness more than Harry and that might rub some players the wrong way. I don't know, we'll see. Definitely heading into the great unknown here but I'm hoping they give him the best chance to succeed, even if it means shipping out club favorites. If anyone isn't on board, they gotta go. They can't afford to half-ass this.
   12. Randy Jones Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:03 AM (#4172053)
My guess is AVB will stress fitness more than Harry and that might rub some players the wrong way.


I'm pretty sure AVB understands the concept of squad rotation, which should also help with the team's fitness levels in the later parts of the season.
   13. Mattbert Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:16 AM (#4172071)
Kids these days use lol weird. I've gotten emails that run something like, "Dear Professor, I couldn't find the book for this week in the library. lol. is it on reserve?" It's basically just a signifier of tone, saying, I'm trying to be light-hearted and don't take this too seriously.

Benny uses LOLs like the rest of us use periods lol
   14. The Voice of America Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4172073)
I wonder how Bale fits in AVB´s system if not at left back. I think having Bale play even higher up the pitch ina 4-3-3 negates his biggest asset, which is his speed.
   15. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:25 AM (#4172080)
I'm pretty sure AVB understands the concept of squad rotation, which should also help with the team's fitness levels in the later parts of the season.

I was thinking more about training regiments. Juande Ramos, by many accounts, drove some players nuts with all the exercising and lack of pies and what not.

I wonder how Bale fits in ABV´s system if not at left back. I think having Bale play even higher up the pitch ina 4-3-3 negates his biggest asset, which is his speed.

Not sure. As a left-sided mifielder in a 4-3-3? Will he play him as a forward? Like I said, I'm not sure what AVB has planned but I think I will check out that friendly in New York now to get a sneak preview. I can't see Bale moving back to LB, though. Those days are gone forever.
   16. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4172082)
Few interesting "my first day" stories from Chelsea players (I didn't know Jose Mourinho spoke French either, Florent). Sam Hutchinson's is somewhat darkly hilarious.
What's interesting is that the first three (Torres, Maluda, Mata) were all welcomed by different managers. That might tell us something about Chelsea's league struggles lately.
   17. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:27 AM (#4172084)
Juande Ramos, by many accounts, drove some players nuts with all the exercising and lack of pies and what not.
Whereas 'Arry just ate all the pies himself, which solved that problem.
   18. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4172089)
Whereas 'Arry just ate all the pies himself, which solved that problem.

Naw, he smuggled them to the Queen Vic and sold them for half price, the dodgy geezer.
   19. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:32 AM (#4172093)
Naw, he smuggled them to the Queen Vic and sold them for half price, the dodgy geezer.
And I'm sure he paid his Inland Revenue on the "Pie-Finder Fee" he got for it.
   20. Randy Jones Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:35 AM (#4172098)
Rumors are Man United are going after Joao Moutinho because Spurs are asking too much for Modric.

And Ganso turned down a new deal from Santos, but he is still signed for 3 years so who knows what that means.
   21. The Voice of America Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:40 AM (#4172102)
I can't see Bale moving back to LB, though. Those days are gone forever.


I don't know. This Euro´s best left back was a winger not that long ago. If he moves to Barca or Real he will probably have to be a left back. And as a left sided midfielder he still would not be able to use his speed as much. Dribbling technique is more important in the center and he is not as good in that department.

The other solution is Villas Boas switching to a 4-2-3-1.
   22. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:54 AM (#4172119)
Kids these days use lol weird. I've gotten emails that run something like, "Dear Professor, I couldn't find the book for this week in the library. lol. is it on reserve?" It's basically just a signifier of tone, saying, I'm trying to be light-hearted and don't take this too seriously.


I recently sold a computer (via Craigslist) to a guy whose first email to me was, "i want to buy your laptop lol."
   23. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 03, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4172133)
If he moves to Barca or Real he will probably have to be a left back.

And is probably one of the reasons he just signed another contract with Spurs. He's a pretty meh defender and like to play as far up the pitch as he can anymore. I don't put too much stock in those Real and Barcelona rumors, to be honest. It's the Italians I worry about when it comes to snatching Bale, but they all seem to be broke right now. Whew!
   24. bjhanke Posted: July 03, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4172218)
Futbol (soccer) may well be the most American of sports, if you include Latin America. - Brock Hanke
   25. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 03, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4172227)
Futbol (soccer) may well be the most American of sports, if you include Latin America. - Brock Hanke
Well, yes, but in fairness to my intro, few do when they're celebrating the Fourth of July
   26. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 03, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4172336)
I thought lacrosse was the most American of sports.
   27. Obi One Kenobi Nil Posted: July 03, 2012 at 02:47 PM (#4172363)
And is probably one of the reasons he just signed another contract with Spurs. He's a pretty meh defender and like to play as far up the pitch as he can anymore. I don't put too much stock in those Real and Barcelona rumors, to be honest. It's the Italians I worry about when it comes to snatching Bale, but they all seem to be broke right now. Whew!


The thing with Bale is that he seems to think it is still 1996 when 4-4-2 ruled English football and Ryan Giggs was King. Now, because of the way teams often set up, the "out" ball is very often to the fullback and why they are so important for good teams.

It's why Alba was so critical for Spain, why Maicon was critical for Brazil, Dani Alves for Barcelona and Glen Johnson was often England's most threatening attacker.

My observation of Bale is that he simply doesn't have the level of in close ball control and general awareness needed to be anything buy sporadically effective pushed up the pitch and is most dangerous when afforded space to run into and drive either towards goal to shoot or down the touchline to deliver a cross. Something which in modern formations is best accomplished from fullback, in those same formations not having the defensive solidity of Arbeloa style fullbacks is not so important if you have a holding midfielder capable of screening the centerbacks or dropping in between them so they can push wide as the fullbacks get forward to support the midfield.
   28. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: July 03, 2012 at 03:14 PM (#4172415)
The thing with Bale is that he seems to think it is still 1996 when 4-4-2 ruled English football

So does the prawn sandwich brigade in the FA.
   29. Mattbert Posted: July 03, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4172466)
So does the prawn sandwich brigade in the FA.

Ha ha. But it's not just them.
   30. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 03, 2012 at 04:02 PM (#4172473)
I'm not sure LOL means what Disco Benny thinks it means...


David Cameron reportedly thought it stood for "Lots Of Love"...
   31. bjhanke Posted: July 03, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4172477)
RB - You CERTAINLY have a point in #25 there, and I didn't want to deny you that. I was more or less making a joke with a point about Latin America. I spent a couple of weeks in Mexico City several years back, and there was no shortage of people who wanted to tell me that they really did harbor some resentment of the "United States of America", because their form of government is also a unification of individual states, and is also in America. Sometimes that's worth keeping in mind, although it being close to the 4th of July, which is certainly our holiday here, I don't want to demean that, either. There are surely many full-bore partriots on this site. - Brock
   32. ursus arctos Posted: July 03, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4172588)
   33. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: July 03, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4172600)
Man Utd file for a NYSE-listed IPO.


I hope this goes as well as Facebook stock did.
   34. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 03, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4172607)
Daniel Sturridge has viral meningitis. That can't be good...
   35. Swedish Chef Posted: July 03, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4172610)
Man Utd file for a NYSE-listed IPO.

Lot to digest in that one. They seem to have cleaned out the debt closet really well, they have a lot of debt of course, but it's not toxic sludge anymore; they can keep from snickering when discussing the DHL training kit deal, that can't be easy; and they get seventeen ####### million pounds in revenue from mobile.

I hope this goes as well as Facebook stock did.

So you want the Glazers to make out like bandits?
   36. ursus arctos Posted: July 03, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4172611)
When Congress passed the JOBS Act, it clearly had a Caymans-registered Manchester United in mind as the ideal "Emerging Growth Company"
   37. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: July 03, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4172618)
So you want the Glazers to make out like bandits?


Probably not the best analogy. I meant in terms of being a dud. Facebook made a boatload though, so good for them?
   38. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: July 03, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4172619)
Curious, how does ManU stock fit into Financial Fair Play, if at all?
   39. Swedish Chef Posted: July 03, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4172623)
Curious, how does ManU stock fit into Financial Fair Play, if at all?

They discuss FFP in the prospect, they are within bounds already and believe it will work to their advantage.
   40. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: July 03, 2012 at 11:30 PM (#4172814)
Mathias Sammer :: Anakin Skywalker
   41. Mattbert Posted: July 04, 2012 at 09:33 AM (#4172945)
Noted money-grubbing, unscrupulous rogue Gylfi Sigurdsson will be joining Tottenham Hotspur.

I am pretty happy with this addition. Sigurdsson isn't a big name (yet?), but he has considerable talent and is one of those "tactically flexible" players that the younger managers seem to love. A nice first step for the Villas-Boas Era.
   42. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: July 04, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4173009)
Rangers have been officially denied entry to the SPL and are applying to the Scottish Football League.
   43. Swedish Chef Posted: July 04, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4173020)
As if having an expiring TV deal wasn't enough for the SPL.

SPL clubs will now hope their Scottish Football League counterparts accept the newco into the First Division amid warnings that £16m could be lost to the Scottish game if they go down to the Third.


Warnings have been made in the last few days that up to half the SPL clubs could go into administration if the Ibrox club are in the bottom tier.

It appears that most if not all of the SPL's commercial contracts include exit clauses for sponsors and partners allowing them to pull out or renegotiate if the Old Firm of Celtic and Rangers are not present.

The clauses were inserted amid speculation over the Glasgow pair moving to England or into a European league but they have proved costly after Rangers went into liquidation last month.


Before the meeting on Wednesday morning, Doncaster said: "There are probably three options for dealing with Rangers. Rangers coming into the SPL with an appropriate range of sanctions is one option. Rangers going into the second tier is another option.

"The option that a lot of people have talked about, Rangers in the fourth tier, ultimately that would wreak huge financial damage on the whole game and it's difficult to see why 41 innocent clubs should pay the price for the misdeeds of one.


On the other hand, the SPL has now given the decision about where the Rangers end up to the SFL, and for them three years of games against Rangers must seem far yummier than Rangers slumming it in First for a year, right?
   44. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 04, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4173050)
Robin Van Persie knows how to run football clubs, too

Because it's not about the money. As a Spurs fan, I should be mocking this, but that is one condescending open letter from Van Persie and his people.

Good news about Sigurdsson. He's young AND makes Spurs immediately better even if he's too dumb to understand the privilege it would have been to play for Lverpool Football Club. Vertonghen should be done soon, as well. Those rumors about Spurs having 80 millions pounds to spend? I want to smoke what they're smoking!

On the other hand, the SPL has now given the decision about where the Rangers end up to the SFL, and for them three years of games against Rangers must seem far yummier than Rangers slumming it in First for a year, right?

It's fascinating. They have, of course, to be admitted into the SFL first. The SPL have threatened to create their own second division outside the SFL, too. Scotland is drunker and more violent than usual right now!

Enjoy the holiday!
   45. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 04, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4173054)
Those rumors about Spurs having 80 millions pounds to spend? I want to smoke what they're smoking!
The rumor is that Spurs have ~£40M to spend, and then that they'll sell Modric and Van Der Vaart for another ~£40M, giving AVB a total of ~£80M to work with. I have no idea how plausible it is that the club has a transfer kitty of £40M to begin with, but the second half of it seems perfectly reasonable.
   46. Swedish Chef Posted: July 04, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4173066)
Maybe the plan for the first 40 mill assumed that Modric was to be sold?
   47. Mattbert Posted: July 04, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4173119)
Saved myself a couple cokes by reading #45 and #46 before responding to Shooty.

I do think it's a reasonable estimate that Villas-Boas would be given £40M to spend right off the bat. Harry spent very little the last two years, so Spurs should have some money to burn. I don't know the exact figures, but I reckon they've already brought in £10-15M from the transfers of Kranjcar and Corluka.

If the last member of Tottenham's Croatian trio goes, I would imagine a good chunk of that fee will be sunk back into the squad.
   48. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 08:28 AM (#4173383)
Usmanov is declaring war on Kroencke at Arsenal. Usmanov, huh? That would be a deal with devil, wouldn't it? Or more accurately, a deal with Jabba the Hutt.

Corinthians are champions of South America for the first time!

And there are a crap load of Europa games today, a few of which involve teams I've heard of.
   49. Flynn Posted: July 05, 2012 at 09:25 AM (#4173405)
Usmanov is the ultimate the enemy of my enemy...figure. He's a shady oligarch, but the board sucks and deserves criticism for the constant ways they've ###### up since David Dein left the club.

Twente are by far the most relevant team in today's Europa games, though MTK and Honved have the impoverished gentry aspect to them.
   50. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 09:36 AM (#4173410)
Usmanov is the ultimate the enemy of my enemy...figure. He's a shady oligarch, but the board sucks and deserves criticism for the constant ways they've ###### up since David Dein left the club.

Is there a 3rd option? There's gotta be a 3rd option, right? The good news about Van Persie's public letter is it's making it more likely Adebayor comes back to Spurs as Man City are even more desperate to clear room. Rumors in Spurs land are that Adebayor and Vertonghen will be done by the end of the weekend. Still, that letter was a dick move by Van Persie.
   51. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 05, 2012 at 09:47 AM (#4173416)
Usmanov is declaring war on Kroencke at Arsenal. Usmanov, huh? That would be a deal with devil, wouldn't it? Or more accurately, a deal with Jabba the Hutt.
Not that I'm in the business of defending Kroencke (or Usmanov, for that mattter) but calling out Kroencke for Van Persie's (dick) letter is an odd choice.
   52. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 09:49 AM (#4173417)
Brendan Rodgers is a quick FSG study

You don't try to bring a player to a club like LFC for Swansea wages and expect him to be grateful for the opportunity. I'm not usually a smack-talker, but I'm hoping Gylfi Sigurdsson scores a couple against Liverpool this year as it looks more and more like it's LFC's own fault they didn't lock this down. It's not Gylfi's fault Joe Cole is making 90K a week for the next couple of years or that Stuart Downing makes more that 2 quid a week so that they have to find players on the cheap. Now I have to watch the Anfield Rap video a couple of times to rekindle the affection I want to maintain for them.
   53. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 09:51 AM (#4173419)
Not that I'm in the business of defending Kroencke (or Usmanov, for that mattter) but calling out Kroencke for Van Persie's (dick) letter is an odd choice.

It would seem Usmanov's grand plan is to get Arsenal supporters to hate Kroencke so much that Kroencke will sell out to Usmanov and run back to America in tears. It doesn't really sound like a great plan.
   54. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 05, 2012 at 10:00 AM (#4173423)
It would seem Usmanov's grand plan is to get Arsenal supporters to hate Kroencke so much that Kroencke will sell out to Usmanov and run back to America in tears. It doesn't really sound like a great plan.
Perhaps he should take some lessons from Vince McMahon
   55. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 10:24 AM (#4173434)
Perhaps he should take some lessons from Vince McMahon

You're internet skills frighten me.
   56. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 05, 2012 at 10:37 AM (#4173444)
You're internet skills frighten me.
Child of the digital age, baby, child of the digital age!
   57. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: July 05, 2012 at 10:50 AM (#4173458)
You don't try to bring a player to a club like LFC for Swansea wages and expect him to be grateful for the opportunity. I'm not usually a smack-talker, but I'm hoping Gylfi Sigurdsson scores a couple against Liverpool this year as it looks more and more like it's LFC's own fault they didn't lock this down. It's not Gylfi's fault Joe Cole is making 90K a week for the next couple of years or that Stuart Downing makes more that 2 quid a week so that they have to find players on the cheap.

That's certainly one way to look at it. The other is, as the article mentions, that Rodgers has a good idea of what the player is capable of, given that he's had him for two separate clubs and he simply decided the money could be better spent elsewhere. Taking either view requires going off of a fair bit of speculation(*) and if you enjoy making pronouncements on that then hey, knock yourself out. Still doesn't pass as actual, worthwhile analysis, though.

(*)Which is why the "Bravo, Brendan!" in the linked piece comes off as rather silly.
   58. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4173469)
That's certainly one way to look at it. The other is, as the article mentions, that Rodgers has a good idea of what the player is capable of, given that he's had him for two separate clubs and he simply decided the money could be better spent elsewhere. Taking either view requires going off of a fair bit of speculation(*) and if you enjoy making pronouncements on that then hey, knock yourself out. Still doesn't pass as actual, worthwhile analysis, though.

Except the gracious thing to do is say good luck to him and we're moving on and not to feed the story that the Liverpool media have been pushing that he's asking for outrageous wages and cares more about money than playing football. I'm pretty sure Rodgers got a bump in wages moving from Swansea to Liverpool, himself. Also, I'm pretty sure Tottenham plan on playing Sigurdsson so I'm not sure where Rodgers' crack about playing time comes from, either.
   59. Flynn Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:07 AM (#4173473)
Is there a 3rd option? There's gotta be a 3rd option, right?


There would be - David Dein rejoins the board.

Not that I'm in the business of defending Kroencke (or Usmanov, for that mattter) but calling out Kroencke for Van Persie's (dick) letter is an odd choice.


It's a failure to sell van Persie on their plans as much as anything, which is the effect when you have a tennis ball-headed numpty in Gazidis running the show. Their inability to close out transfers and manage a squad doesn't help. Part of that is nobody is there who can really negotiate a transfer, and nobody is there who can challenge Wenger.

   60. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:08 AM (#4173474)
UEFA so crazy!

They did this several times during the games. I don't know, does it bug anyone else? Can't they just show the games live and uncut anymore? I don't really need to manipulated anymore than I already am during a broadcast.
   61. BDC Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:10 AM (#4173476)
OK, I'll wander in with a question, and I'll be happily referred to some other thread where it's been discussed ad nauseam, as I reckon it has been. In international football, what's the objection to sudden-death overtime? Watching a match go 0-0 as both teams wait for the shootout is sometimes not that great a sport experience, and the shootout might as well be the toss of a coin. It seems to me that if both teams were told that nobody leaves till one of them scores in the course of regular play, their minds might be better-concentrated on the task. But I am sure there are also good objections. It just seems inertial to stick with the current system.
   62. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:12 AM (#4173480)
The other is, as the article mentions, that Rodgers has a good idea of what the player is capable of, given that he's had him for two separate clubs and he simply decided the money could be better spent elsewhere.
The thing for me is that they were willing to spend £7M for his services. Don't players typically get a nice raise themselves when they're purchased for a significant fee? It's an odd bit of budgeting to be willing to pay the transfer but not the raise. There's no guarantee that Gylfi is worth the money, but it seems odd to say that he would be worth a £7M transfer fee, but not a wage increase.
   63. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4173481)
In international football, what's the objection to sudden-death overtime?

Unlimited sudden-death overtime, such that the match could theoretically last 6 hours, like in the NHL playoffs?

The objection is that the players are all tired and there aren't any substitutes left. And practically, the players being all tired makes it LESS likely that a goal will be scored, until you reach the point that defenders just start lying down on the ground.
   64. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4173482)
In international football, what's the objection to sudden-death overtime?
Injuries. There's lots of data on this - for every minute past 90, injury rates skyrocket. It's not safe to play sudden death football.
   65. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:14 AM (#4173484)
It seems to me that if both teams were told that nobody leaves till one of them scores in the course of regular play, their minds might be better-concentrated on the task. But I am sure there are also good objections. It just seems inertial to stick with the current system.

Players would die of exhaustion, I think, is the main objection. They used to replay the game in the entirety but that's not an option anymore for logistical and television reasons. No one likes PK's but coming up with an alternative is tough.

eedi: I'm just going to head out and buy some cokes and stuff. Be right back!
   66. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:17 AM (#4173487)
I think they should bring back replays for serious championship games - World Cup, Euros, Champions League, that kind of stuff. Those things draw crazy crowds and ratings, I have to imagine that the money would be there to make it work. (As in, just for the final of those tournaments. I don't see how you make the logistics work for games before the final.)
   67. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4173497)
I think they should bring back replays for serious championship games - World Cup, Euros, Champions League, that kind of stuff. Those things draw crazy crowds and ratings, I have to imagine that the money would be there to make it work. (As in, just for the final of those tournaments. I don't see how you make the logistics work for games before the final.)

I wonder how that worked for traveling support back in the day, or was that not such a big thing then?
   68. Obi One Kenobi Nil Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4173500)
One of the problemns is that it's also a lot of hassle to get the support structure back in place 3-4 days later for handling a major replay, i.e. Police, Ambulance, Traffic, Public Transport etc. You also have to sell a #### tonne of tickets in a short space of time and hope all the supporters don't have to bugger off home because they've booked hotels, flights and have to go back to work.
   69. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4173509)
For (a), with a big tournament, stadiums and cities and countries are competing to host. You just write the "be ready for a finals replay" into the contract and you have them keep all the support structure prepared and under contract for several days beyond the end of the tournament.

For (b), I have a really hard time believing that selling out the final match of a world class tournament would be problem.
   70. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4173524)
The thing for me is that they were willing to spend £7M for his services. Don't players typically get a nice raise themselves when they're purchased for a significant fee? It's an odd bit of budgeting to be willing to pay the transfer but not the raise. There's no guarantee that Gylfi is worth the money, but it seems odd to say that he would be worth a £7M transfer fee, but not a wage increase.

It does seem strange, particularly if you add to it FSG's recent moves with Boston(*). Even so, I don't know that any hard numbers have been released, i.e. what Spurs were offering compared to Liverpool. I think the Liverpool Echo said something like double the money, but like Shooty I'm hesitant to have much faith in that figure.

(*)I mean, as a White Sox fan I'm more than happy to have Youkilis for $2 million, a useful bench player and a fringe bullpen arm, but from Boston's perspective it seems odd to have not received more/paid less of the contract.

Except the gracious thing to do is say good luck to him and we're moving on and not to feed the story that the Liverpool media have been pushing that he's asking for outrageous wages and cares more about money than playing football.

Going only off of the quotes in the article, as I did not see the actual interview as it's behind a paywall on LFC.tv -- I'm not reading those quotes the same way you are. I'm just seeing an honest, "We didn't want to match what Spurs were offering." Now the bottom quote they link -- the one about Liverpool being a "real footballing institution" -- now that puts a big grin on my face, but I could see why you might either be irked or simply laugh uncontrollably at that.
   71. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:47 AM (#4173525)
Of course, what do you do if the replay ends in a draw?

Looking very likely Everton is getting Pienaar back which is good news for them, I think, as he looked great back in Everton down the stretch. His days at Tottenham will become a hazily remembered interlude of surreality...He helped beat Milan, though, so good luck to him!
   72. BDC Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4173526)
Was a World Cup final or late-round match ever replayed in its entirety? By the time I started to watch (1982), the PK shootout was in effect (though IIRC the championship final match would have been replayed that year if drawn, and only later was shootout extended to the ultimate match. I could very well be wrong.)

I take the point that exhaustion would ensue. I guess I wondered if strategies would changed based on the threat of exhaustion. But the risks of losing seem so colossal …

I guess that leaves baseball as one of the few one-way-substitution team sports where a game can go on indefinitely.

   73. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:49 AM (#4173530)
For (b), I have a really hard time believing that selling out the final match of a world class tournament would be problem.


How many days later is the replay? Because fans aren't planning to stick around for days "just in case."
   74. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4173532)
now that puts a big grin on my face, but I could see why you might either be irked or simply laugh uncontrollably at that.

Just irked a bit. I've seen a couple of other stories about what Rodgers said that seem a little softer, so that's good. Sigurdsson seems like a good enough kid and, while his choosing Spurs over LFC is a bit of an upset win for Spurs, but it's not like he's going to play for Anzhi and babbling about he just admires the project and the beauty of Dagestan so much.
   75. Swedish Chef Posted: July 05, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4173542)
Was a World Cup final or late-round match ever replayed in its entirety?

In the European Championship in 1968 there was a replay in the final. But they also used the other common tiebreaker for the other rounds, Italy won the semi on a coin toss.
   76. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: July 05, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4173545)
That's fair enough. I certainly would've been more than happy to have him at that (transfer fee) price. We obviously don't have anything like WAR framework to evaluate soccer players, but intuitively it seems like a good bit of business -- young player with a history (albeit in a small amount of games) of success at this level. Sell-on value if he breaks out, and even if he flops the price paid isn't all that large (just think of it as one-half of a Stewart Downing. Sigh...).

---------------

Grant Wahl is tweeting that the wheels are apparently moving on the USMNT's involvement in Copa America 2016, with the possibility of even hosting it. From the US' perspective, that would be all kinds of cool.
   77. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4173546)
Grant Wahl is tweeting that the wheels are apparently moving on the USMNT's involvement in Copa America 2016, with the possibility of even hosting it. From the US' perspective, that would be all kinds of cool.

This would be fantastic and hopefully a step in the direction of a merger with CONMEBOL. I guess the Brazilian and Argentine FA's enjoyed all the cash they got from that friendly in Jersey.
   78. ursus arctos Posted: July 05, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4173550)
There was a replay in the 1973-74 European Cup Final.

Bayern and Atletico Madrid drew 1-1 in the first leg in Brussels (both goals came in extra time, with Bayern's equalizer coming at the death). Bayern then won the replay (two days later) 4-0. The crowd at the replay was roughly half that at the first match.
   79. Borussia, Du bist so wunderschön! (Mark Edward) Posted: July 05, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4173563)
Summer soccer reading list (if I ever make it through Infinite Jest first):
Jonathan Wilson- Behind the Curtain: Travels in Eastern European Football
Tim Parks- A Season With Verona
   80. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: July 05, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4173585)
Grant Wahl is tweeting that the wheels are apparently moving on the USMNT's involvement in Copa America 2016, with the possibility of even hosting it. From the US' perspective, that would be all kinds of cool.


Hosting it would be awesome. Not getting out of the group stage again, not so much.
   81. The Voice of America Posted: July 05, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4173593)
Sportingbet is paying 63/1 on spurs winning the EPL. What do you think?

EDIT: I'm sorry I had not read the rules. They are actually paying 23/1.
   82. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4173599)
Sportingbet is paying 63/1 on spurs winning the EPL. What do you think?

Worth a tenner, no?

Summer soccer reading list (if I ever make it through Infinite Jest first):
Jonathan Wilson- Behind the Curtain: Travels in Eastern European Football
Tim Parks- A Season With Verona


Anyone read the Jonathan Wilson book about Clough, yet? It's still not available in the States except as an e-book.
   83. The Voice of America Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4173601)
I thought you could make a combined bet about them winning and reaching the top 4. It shows that I have never bet in my life that I didn't know this wasn't possible.
   84. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4173609)
I thought you could make a combined bet about them winning and reaching the top 4. It shows that I have never bet in my life that I didn't know this wasn't possible.

I also know nothing about gambling, so don't feel bad.
   85. Swedish Chef Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4173613)
I thought you could make a combined bet about them winning and reaching the top 4. It shows that I have never bet in my life that I didn't know this wasn't possible.

Bookies sometimes make mistakes with the independence of events, they lost a massive amount when they allowed combinations of leading goalscorer and winner in WC2002. Not that they would ever have made the mistake of allowing one to combine a bet with a bet that's a superset of the first.
   86. Swedish Chef Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4173618)
I also know nothing about gambling, so don't feel bad.

Aren't you working in finance? Gambling is just like buying European bonds or setting money on fire, except that you sometimes don't lose when gambling.
   87. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4173621)
EDIT: I'm sorry I had not read the rules. They are actually paying 23/1.
Looks like the best you can do on Spurs is 33/1.
   88. Swedish Chef Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4173636)
I think I like Villa better at 940/1 than Spurs at 30 something. Funny thing is that you can put real money (about a hundred pounds) on 1000/1 on 11 teams on Betfair. I guess that Villa would be there too, except there's somebody totally insane that is offering to take Villa as winners at 1000/1.

   89. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4173645)
Anyone read the Jonathan Wilson book about Clough, yet? It's still not available in the States except as an e-book.


This might be my next read.
   90. Sean Forman Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4173652)
Proposed rule change.

Any player who goes down on the pitch has to stay off for at least as much time as they went down for. So if Drogba writhes around for five minutes, he can return five minutes after the restart. Just a thought. It might curtail some of the stalling that happens.

I suppose it's possible this could lead to more dirty play by defenders to force opposing players off the pitch, but I'd be curious what the result would be.
   91. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4173661)
Aren't you working in finance? Gambling is just like buying European bonds or setting money on fire, except that you sometimes don't lose when gambling.

Let me rephrase that to sports gambling. Investing seems less like gambling and more like musical chairs...
   92. Randy Jones Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4173665)
Two problems. First, you are now punishing players who are legitimately injured. Second, they will just stretcher players off really quickly(this could be dangerous to an actually injured player) so it won't matter anyway.
   93. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: July 05, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4173678)
So if Drogba writhes around for five minutes, he can return five minutes after the restart.


This will have minimal effect because it would so rarely be implemented and it might be worth the trade off. It's rare that a player writhes around for more than a minute or two and is either not carted off and replaced or receives treatment on the sideline and then re-enters the game. The dicking around at the end of games is problematic but they don't spend five minutes flailing about. And would you trade a minute without a striker for a minute of wasted time? I might.
   94. The Voice of America Posted: July 05, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4173680)
I found 35/1 by unibet. I would take those odds. I think their chances are better than just 3%.
   95. PepTech Posted: July 05, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4173684)
First, you are now punishing players who are legitimately injured


If they're legitimately injured, they're subbing out anyway. If there's a way to prevent writhing followed by sprinting with a 10 second turnaround, I'm all for it.

I don't know about keeping a stopwatch on them, but maybe sitting out until your next legit stoppage of play occurs (same rule as a sub coming on).
   96. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: July 05, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4173690)
   97. Randy Jones Posted: July 05, 2012 at 02:19 PM (#4173707)
If they're legitimately injured, they're subbing out anyway.


Fine, replace "injured" with "hurt".
   98. Borussia, Du bist so wunderschön! (Mark Edward) Posted: July 05, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4173713)
AKA: New kits!


Best: Swansea's home kits, Stoke's red/white/blue combo, Everton's away kits.
Worst: Fulham's black/yellow thing. Please don't have Clint Dempsey wear that.
   99. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: July 05, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4173714)
Liverpool's 3rd, Aston Villa's away (Aston Villa anything really, that color combo is an eyesore) and Swansea's Xmas theme are awful.
   100. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 05, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4173718)
Swansea gets a pass for me because those actually are the national colors of Wales.
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