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Friday, June 01, 2012

OT: The Soccer Thread: June

Euro 2012 Kicks Off!

Notable Early Round Matches:

Basically anything in Group B, which features teams currently ranked second, fourth, fifth and tenth in the FIFA rankings. That’s insane. Matchdays are June 9 (Saturday), 13 (Wednesday) and 17 (Sunday—Father’s Day). Don’t miss ‘em.

 

 

RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 01, 2012 at 09:52 PM | 2536 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

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   1501. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 18, 2012 at 11:47 AM (#4159886)
Drogba heading to China for 12 million EUR a year.
One of my friends is spending the summer and China and having a rough time of it. Although she's also not making $12 million EUR per year--even prorated for the summer--so perhaps that's a factor.
   1502. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 18, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4159889)
I tentatively suggest a plan where you spend lots and lots of money.

Is there a UK version of stubhub?
Speaking of which, I shall be in London Sept. 13-19, any ideas on the best game to attend those days? Fulham is home to WBA that Saturday, which is a thought, although I have no idea if I could get tickets to that. But there's also some lower league action I'm considering, Orient is hosting...someone, on the Tuesday which would be a nice way to spend my last night in London.

Basically, if someone would like to tell me how to maximize my fun and minimize my cost (besides the obvious that going to Orient will be cheaper than Fulham) and save me having to think about this in a meaningful way, that would be super.
   1503. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4159903)
Basically, if someone would like to tell me how to maximize my fun and minimize my cost (besides the obvious that going to Orient will be cheaper than Fulham) and save me having to think about this in a meaningful way, that would be super.

When I asked this same question the locals made Charlton sound like a pretty good option.
   1504. Spivey Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4159909)
I know Croatia has Modric... nevertheless, is Spain expected to thoroughly beat them? Or is Croatia considered one of the better teams in Europe?
   1505. Mattbert Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:18 PM (#4159919)
Fulham is home to WBA that Saturday, which is a thought, although I have no idea if I could get tickets to that.

You'll be able to get tickets to that. Also, depending on where you're staying in London the price difference between Fulham and Orient may not be that great once you factor in travel (both the opportunity cost of your time and the direct expense).
   1506. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4159922)
I know Croatia has Modric... nevertheless, is Spain expected to thoroughly beat them? Or is Croatia considered one of the better teams in Europe?

Croatia are probably a better side than Italy right now, but Spain are supposed to beat them handily because Spain are supposed to beat everyone handily. I don't think it would be shocking if Croatia pulled this off today, though. I'm looking forward to this one!
   1507. ursus arctos Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:20 PM (#4159924)
Looking at it quickly, I'd say Fulham on Saturday, and Palace at home to Forest on Tuesday night. Currently the Fulham match will clash with Charlton hosting Palace, but that may change by the time you get there.

I would expect that you could walk up and buy tickets to any of those.

Shooty, StubHub has a UK operation, but I've never found it useful for football.
   1508. Mattbert Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4159928)
I know Croatia has Modric... nevertheless, is Spain expected to thoroughly beat them? Or is Croatia considered one of the better teams in Europe?

I'd peg them as one of the good but not elite sides in Europe. They're sort of like the Everton of national teams; solid if unspectacular, perennially overperforming in spite of serious structural handicaps (finances for Everton, tiny population for Croatia).

Spain should be favored by a goal or two, I would think.
   1509. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:28 PM (#4159932)
Shooty, StubHub has a UK operation, but I've never found it useful for football.

This is going to be a tough one, I fear. Spurs v Chelsea, outside a CL game, is probably the ultimate, too.
   1510. Baldrick Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:28 PM (#4159933)
I don't agree that Croatia are probably better than Italy. They're pretty close, and it's possible that Croatia is the better team. But I was pretty impressed by Italy against Spain. Croatia will play Spain differently, but I don't see it being more effective.

That said, in any world where Greece is going onto the quarterfinals is a world where predictions are meaningless.
   1511. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4159938)
But I was pretty impressed by Italy against Spain.

I was too, but they've looked so crappy in so many other games I'm not willing to jump back on the bandwagon yet.
   1512. zack Posted: June 18, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4159960)
I gotta say, this new "ESPNFC" branding is totally lame. Soccernet was awesome, charmingly 1995 internet.

ENSPFC runs the impressive double of pretentious and nonsensical.
   1513. ursus arctos Posted: June 18, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4159966)
It's also a complete ripoff of ScoreFC from Toronto.
   1514. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: June 18, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4159976)
What's ScoreFC from Toronto?
   1515. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: June 18, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4159986)
What's ScoreFC from Toronto?

An ESPNFC ripoff.
   1516. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4160007)
Sky, FWIW, is reporting Spurs are in negotiations with Blanc. Maybe England is just trying to do a Redknapp to the French team?
   1517. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 18, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4160015)
ENSPFC runs the impressive double of pretentious and nonsensical.


So it represents the ESPN brand perfectly?
   1518. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 18, 2012 at 01:46 PM (#4160018)
No. It isn't shouted at you by an ugly man in a bad suit wearing too much makeup.
   1519. Randy Jones Posted: June 18, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4160055)
It will be, just give them time.
   1520. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4160147)
It feels like they are averaging about 10 free kicks a minute in this game...
   1521. Baldrick Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:11 PM (#4160153)
"The only pact the Spanish players have is with the ball."

Just shoot me now.
   1522. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4160160)
That could have been a penalty. Dumb for Charlie get a booking for yapping, though.
   1523. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4160166)
A tapas of tiki-taka, huh?
   1524. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4160175)
I don't think the performance from the referee has been stark...
   1525. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4160176)
Italy had been looking dangerous and finally get the goal.
   1526. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4160178)
And Spain seem to be hoofing a lot of long balls forward. I thought I would be getting at least until tomorrow before I had to put up with that...
   1527. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4160179)
Croatia shouldn't have been hoping for an Ireland result, anyway.
   1528. Mattbert Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4160191)
I don't think the performance from the referee has been stark...

A gang of wolves could do better!
   1529. Mattbert Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4160195)
My twatpick of Srna finally pays off with a booking!
   1530. I am going to be Frank Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4160206)
I "watched" the first half of the Spain game. Wow that was boring, I mean it is what was expected. I just can't imagine Ireland-Italy being any sort of entertainment either.
   1531. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:45 PM (#4160214)
A sucker punch by Croatia knocks Spain out. That would be hilarious.
   1532. zack Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4160217)
I think as it stands at halftime, Italy advances on the third tiebreak (goals for among the subgroup). What's interesting is that Croatia and Spain could trade goals, erasing that advantage, where they would both advance on the 4th tiebreak, since both have had the better Whacking Day so far. Assuming Italy doesn't pot 3.

Unfortunately Spain can't be sent home without losing, so they don't have much incentive to do much other than control the ball.
   1533. Swedish Chef Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4160226)
What's interesting is that Croatia and Spain could trade goals, erasing that advantage

There has been a lot of talk of that, Italians are paranoid after the oh so convenient 2-2 draw between Sweden and Denmark that knocked them out in 2004.
   1534. nick swisher hygiene Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4160228)

So: halftime 0-0 Spain-Croatia encourages Italy to play too defensively, Ireland score on a set-piece late, Italy goes out?
   1535. Swedish Chef Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4160233)
So: halftime 0-0 Spain-Croatia encourages Italy to play too defensively, Ireland score on a set-piece late, Italy goes out?

You say that like Italy is in need of any encouragement to play too defensively, that is their thing.
   1536. zack Posted: June 18, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4160234)
Don't read this comment.
   1537. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:01 PM (#4160240)
Spain just refuses to play with any width in this game and on the other side, Modric has no one to pass to when he wins possession. This could be the first 0-0 game in the tourney.
   1538. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:03 PM (#4160243)
I'm going to miss the little no chicken badge kisser.
   1539. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4160246)
Yeah, that was just brilliant. Deserved a goal.
   1540. Swedish Chef Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4160247)
It's not easy to play with width when it takes four passes to move the ball from one touchline to the other, for some strange reason the spaces that existed when the move started always seem to have disappeared when it arrives.
   1541. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4160248)
Spain playing without a true striker again
   1542. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4160249)
That pass from Modric...jeez.
   1543. Mattbert Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4160251)
So, to sum up del Bosque's tactics: Because f**k you, that's why.

It's like he and Pep just got bored with blowing the doors off everybody and decided to see how extreme/tedious they could push the tiki-taka formula.
   1544. I am going to be Frank Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4160254)
He put on a winger - but that winger has NOONE TO CROSS TO!
   1545. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4160257)
Navas supplying some width now.
   1546. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4160259)
Spain needed width, which Navas gives them - and he's been very good so far. It's not clear to me why del Bosque believes its pick one, a winger or a striker.
   1547. Baldrick Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4160262)
Spain needed width, which Navas gives them - and he's been very good so far. It's not clear to me why del Bosque believes its pick one, a winger or a striker.

So, to sum up del Bosque's tactics: Because f**k you, that's why.
   1548. zack Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4160263)
I just find it hard to believe that 2012 Fernando Torres is the best finisher that the best national team in the world can come up with. I realize Villa is hurt, of course.

It's not like that team needs a playmaker than can finish, or a great defender, either; they just need somebody to put a last touch on the ball.
   1549. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4160266)
It's not like that team needs a playmaker than can finish, or a great defender, either; they just need somebody to put a last touch on the ball.

They have Llorente and Negredo. Does Llorente's Basque-ness play any part in his being glued to the bench?
   1550. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4160268)
You're up 1-0 with 15 minutes left, the other team is pressing forward, you need stability. So you bring on Balotelli?
   1551. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4160269)
This is as good as I've seen Luka all year. He's inspired today.
   1552. Swedish Chef Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4160272)
I just find it hard to believe that 2012 Fernando Torres is the best finisher that the best national team in the world can come up with.

Fortunately the best team don't have to put up with Torres, they have Neymar and Hulk.
   1553. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4160274)
Thankfully the best team don't have to put up with Torres, they have Neymar and Hulk.

And Leandro!
   1554. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4160275)
Modric has been the best player on the field, which is incredibly impressive in this match.

Meanwhile the Spanish look like they just don't want to shoot at all.
   1555. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:26 PM (#4160277)
Thanks all for the advice, I'll see if I can wrangle any of my friends into coming to the games with me, I might leave it up to them to be the tiebreaker.
   1556. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:27 PM (#4160278)
These games haven't been enjoyable, but they've been sort of wonderfully perverse.

On top of the Spanish tactics laid out here, the Italians have sat back and defended a 1-0 lead for most of the last forty minutes.
   1557. Baldrick Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4160280)
I have a very bad feeling about this.
   1558. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4160284)
On top of the Spanish tactics laid out here, the Italians have sat back and defended a 1-0 lead for most of the last forty minutes.

That was always the likely outcome after they scored, right? Sit back and rely on the Irish to muck up any half chances they get.
   1559. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4160285)
Gah, there it is. Where was the Croatian defense?
   1560. Baldrick Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4160286)
I have a very bad feeling about this.

Or, precisely the opposite, I suppose.
   1561. Swedish Chef Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4160288)
Clearly offside.
   1562. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4160289)
Ugh.

Now the Croatians have to hope for help from the Irish...and Andrews gets sent off. So much for that
   1563. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4160290)
I could have scored that.

Maybe.
   1564. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4160292)
and now that they've scored, he brings on a striker. wtf.
   1565. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4160293)
Offside.

By a whisker, and only his head. I think hardly any linesman would have called that.
   1566. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4160295)
That goal is actually fairly meaningless to Croatia. A 0-0 draw and an Italy win sends them home. If they draw 1-1 Italy goes home unless they win by 2 goals AND score more than 2 goals, so another Italy goal doesn't get it done in that situation.
   1567. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4160296)
Now the Croatians have to hope for help from the Irish

Andrews just got sent off with a second yellow for the Irish. And now Balotelli scores. So... not happening.
   1568. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4160297)
Why always you, Mario
   1569. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4160298)
Ok, that was cool.
   1570. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4160300)
I could not have scored that.
   1571. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:35 PM (#4160304)
I could have scored that.

Maybe.

I definately would have scored that. Torres would have uffed it though.

And bringing on Balotelli = genius
   1572. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4160306)
I definately would have scored that. Torres would have uffed it though


I definitely would have scored, since I have scored on a play like that. Just a bit of self-depreciating humor.

Yeah, Torres would have put it into row Z.
   1573. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4160307)
Very disappointed for Croatia. Vaya con dios Luka. Watching you week in and week out the last few years was an education.
   1574. Baldrick Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4160312)
"Croatia has absolutely nothing to be disappointed about."

Well, except for being eliminated from the tournament. They have that.
   1575. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4160313)
Spain were pretty uninspired today but Croatia couldn't get enough good chances and missed the one glorious one they had.

Corluka had his jersey grabbed on the Croatian corner before the goal that wasn't called as well (where he headed wide).
   1576. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:41 PM (#4160314)
It looked to me like Modric tired in the final fifteen minutes, and the Croatian attack suddenly became a lot of disjoined long balls. Even in that time, though, they still probably should have had a penalty on that wrestling takedown of Corluka in the box.
   1577. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: June 18, 2012 at 04:42 PM (#4160315)
I'll say this about Ballack: he's brutally honest about what he thinks. Lots of "I don't know."
   1578. zack Posted: June 18, 2012 at 05:04 PM (#4160357)
I think half the goals I have seen in this tournament, if not preventable, could at least have been forced to be spectacular if the defender waited to appeal to the ref until after they scored.
   1579. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: June 18, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4160459)
My girlfriend (not much of a sports fan) commented on Spain: "They just look like they're playing keep away".
   1580. Spivey Posted: June 18, 2012 at 08:34 PM (#4160551)
I was thinking what someone else mentioned - where are Spain supposed to get their goals from? Ok, Silva can score and so can Iniesta. Who else? Danny Alves being out hurts their team too. But no Villa and no Pedro (is he hurt) makes them look very different.
   1581. Mefisto Posted: June 18, 2012 at 08:47 PM (#4160569)
Your question is a better one than you give yourself credit for.

Silva isn't much of a scorer. In 259 games for his various clubs, he's scored just 40 goals (I left out his first season because I assume his minutes were limited then). His season high is 8. He's done a bit better for Spain: 17 in 61. Still, you can't really count on him for more than a goal every 4-6 games.

Iniesta scores even fewer, about 1 every 7 to 10 games.

Cesc is about the same as Silva.

I suspect all of them need someone else to be making penetrating runs in order to be effective. Otherwise Spain is going to grind out victories by narrow margins and will generally be a fast break or two away from elimination.
   1582. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: June 18, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4160622)
Even with Villa, they won every game in the World Cup 2010 knockout stages 1-0. That's a fine line to be treading.
   1583. Mattbert Posted: June 18, 2012 at 11:33 PM (#4160722)
Danny Alves being out hurts their team too.

Yeah, him and Messi. Real drag.
   1584. I am going to be Frank Posted: June 19, 2012 at 12:09 AM (#4160734)
Maybe they could play Navas at RB.

Spain needs to drop Silva and put in Cesc and replace Alonso with Navas. I would continue to start Torres.
   1585. Mefisto Posted: June 19, 2012 at 12:20 AM (#4160739)
I'm inclined to agree with Frank, though I'm ambivalent about Torres. He's not much use in games like today where the opponents just pack the defense. A more open game suits Torres better, though not many teams will play that way against Spain.

A game against Germany would probably require both Busquets and Alonso.
   1586. Spivey Posted: June 19, 2012 at 09:29 AM (#4160899)
I don't know why I thought Alves played on Spain... I must have been remembering Nava from last year's WC.
   1587. I am going to be Frank Posted: June 19, 2012 at 10:00 AM (#4160917)
Barcelona usually only played with a one defensive/holding midfielder - Busquets. Alonso is a good player but he's not as mobile and more useful when you have wingers with attacking fullbacks.

I am not able to watch much Spanish football but isn't Llorente more of a target man, while Negredo a poacher type? I think Del Bosque doesn't want to use those type of players. Torres is a mobvile, willing runner, still has decent speed and can run at defenders (at least he's been trying). He's not the same player he was but even during the Croatia game he did well with the ball when he got some service.

Looking at the Spanish squad they don't have too many options for pure pace (out-of-form Pedro) or width (just Navas). Seeing as how they have so many great creative midfielders, I was a little shocked that Modric was head-and-shoulders above everyone yesterday until he got tired.
   1588. Chicago Joe Posted: June 19, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4160960)
So, Chicagoans... best place to watch football here in the city?
   1589. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 19, 2012 at 11:05 AM (#4160965)
The rumor pendulum has swung back towards Andres Villas-Boas for Spurs today. Sirius Soccer channel--I didn't know this existed--is the only outlet reporting it as a done deal, though. If AVB is the guy, I MUST get tickets for that Spurs - Chelsea game in October. I can already feel the hype.
   1590. Spivey Posted: June 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4160999)
Modric looked good (and quicker than I remember, which probably just means I haven't watched him enough), but I think it's easier to look good when you're the main guy trying to occupy that space and role in the team. I do think Modric is better than Alonso, though.
   1591. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 19, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4161006)
Modric looked good (and quicker than I remember, which probably just means I haven't watched him enough), but I think it's easier to look good when you're the main guy trying to occupy that space and role in the team. I do think Modric is better than Alonso, though.

I wonder if Real will be that much more determined to get him after that game yesterday.
   1592. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: June 19, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4161017)
So, Chicagoans... best place to watch football here in the city?


The Globe on Irving Park. Plenty of TVs and beer selection, cromulent bar food.
   1593. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: June 19, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4161129)
England: Hart, Johnson, Terry, Lescott, Cole, Milner, Gerrard,
Parker, Young, Rooney, Welbeck.

Ukraine: Pyatov, Gusev, Khacheridi, Selin, Rakitskiy,
Yarmolenko, Tymoschuk, Konoplianka, Garmash, Devic, Milevskiy.

Shevchenko is on the bench.

edit: France going with Ben Arfa in place of Menez and Diarra in place of Cabaye today.
   1594. Mattbert Posted: June 19, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4161242)
Does anyone have the link to that site where you can show last season's Premier League standings as of any game day you select? I seem to have misplaced it.
   1595. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: June 19, 2012 at 03:14 PM (#4161245)
Carroll would have scored there Wayne.
   1596. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 19, 2012 at 03:20 PM (#4161252)
Does anyone have the link to that site where you can show last season's Premier League standings as of any game day you select? I seem to have misplaced it.


Here you go Mattbert.
   1597. Swedish Chef Posted: June 19, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4161259)
Does anyone have the link to that site where you can show last season's Premier League standings as of any game day you select? I seem to have misplaced it.

I can't even begin to imagine why a Tottenham fan would want such a thing.
   1598. Swedish Chef Posted: June 19, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4161271)
The group of light snoozing.
   1599. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 19, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4161272)
I have no clue why England looks like they're playing for a draw when a win might give them the group win. The way they're playing, Ukraine looks much more likely to score...
   1600. Mattbert Posted: June 19, 2012 at 03:37 PM (#4161275)
Thanks, Jose.

I can't even begin to imagine why a Tottenham fan would want such a thing.

Masochism is part of the deal, man.
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