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Friday, June 01, 2012

OT: The Soccer Thread: June

Euro 2012 Kicks Off!

Notable Early Round Matches:

Basically anything in Group B, which features teams currently ranked second, fourth, fifth and tenth in the FIFA rankings. That’s insane. Matchdays are June 9 (Saturday), 13 (Wednesday) and 17 (Sunday—Father’s Day). Don’t miss ‘em.

 

 

RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 01, 2012 at 09:52 PM | 2536 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

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   801. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 11, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4153988)
I meant to comment on this earlier, but they can give yellow cards for epic flopping, right? Because someone needs to just start piling them on Ribery until he quits overacting like he's a community theater version of Brian Blessed.

I like to think he was screaming, "My face, my beautiful face!" (Yes, I know how mean that is to say. I'm pretty sure he can't hear me!)
   802. Baldrick Posted: June 11, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4153990)
Reposting on the other side of the flip:

Zlatan really is very good. He has seemed the most threatening in his link-up play. He can win the ball in the middle, hold onto it, and then distribute. Doesn't seem like he WANTS to play that role, though. He's not one of the best in the world as people were saying (and I was sort of believing) a few years ago. But he is an excellent player.

And as I write this, he almost scores.
   803. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: June 11, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4154000)
There's been good chances for both teams, but watching this as I work from home it seems like Ukraine has been the more dangerous side. I'm also amused that I'm chatting with a Swedish friend who isn't watching while I am.
   804. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: June 11, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4154016)
wow that was a terrible clearance by Ukraine leading to that goal.
   805. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4154020)
Ukraine get the goal they deserve.
   806. DA Baracus Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4154021)
This game is a bit of a time warp.

EDIT: This game IS a time warp. We've gone back in time!
   807. Baldrick Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4154034)
Shevchenko is partying like it's 2004.
   808. Textbook Editor Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4154055)
A Ukraine win is sort of bad news for France/England, right? In that it's entirely possible only one of them gets through, now.

   809. Mattbert Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4154062)
A Ukraine win is sort of bad news for France/England, right? In that it's entirely possible only one of them gets through, now.

That's always been possible, but both teams should be able to comfortably beat Ukraine and Sweden. Should.
   810. Baldrick Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:35 PM (#4154064)
What a chance!!! Thought for sure that was going to go in. Great flick from Ibra.
   811. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:35 PM (#4154065)
You have to bury that one. Poor from Elmander.
   812. Baldrick Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4154068)
It's amazing how much more common it is for players on teams that are leading to suffer severe injuries during stoppage time. It's almost like there's some sort of connection there.
   813. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4154072)
In theory the ref should just add more time for that. In practice...
   814. Baldrick Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:38 PM (#4154075)
Would have been a glorious finish if that had gone in. Brilliant last couple minutes here.
   815. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4154079)
FIFA could import Roger Goodell's post-game penalties for flopping after video review. Yellow cards and fines all around! Of course, that would involve FIFA actually giving a crap about the quality of the game.
   816. Textbook Editor Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4154082)
That's always been possible, but both teams should be able to comfortably beat Ukraine and Sweden. Should.


But with the win, you sort of have to go get the 6 points or you could be in real trouble if you're left with just 5 (win, 2 draws). Chasing 6 points over 2 matches doesn't really seem to be in the England game plan, but I could be wrong.
   817. DA Baracus Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:42 PM (#4154089)
Shevchenko's game is a great story. Roger Milla-esque.
   818. Baldrick Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:44 PM (#4154095)
I've always liked Shevchenko as a player. Thought he got a pretty raw deal at Chelsea, where he wasn't as good as his price tag by any means but was still pretty good. So it's neat to see him get a brace here.

Next match is Ukraine-France and Sweden-England. That's better for England, I would have to think. If they get a win, they very much control their own destiny. Win by two goals and it would only take a draw against Ukraine to guarantee going through.

The France/Ukraine game should be intriguing. A draw wouldn't hurt either too badly, but both need a win to completely control their fate.
   819. Swedish Chef Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:46 PM (#4154099)
or you could be in real trouble if you're left with just 5 (win, 2 draws).

It's hard to go out with 5 points. It's only possible if everybody beats Sweden and draw amongst themselves. Then the least impressive Sweden-beater gets the boot.
   820. Swedish Chef Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4154103)
Sweden have no real hope onwards, they will have to savor playing the spoiler.
   821. Baldrick Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4154107)
But with the win, you sort of have to go get the 6 points or you could be in real trouble if you're left with just 5 (win, 2 draws). Chasing 6 points over 2 matches doesn't really seem to be in the England game plan, but I could be wrong.

Just to elaborate on my previous post:

If England beat Sweden by two goals and draw Ukraine, they will have 5 points and GD of +2. In that circumstance, it's impossible for both France and Ukraine to beat that. If Ukraine wins, France can only get to 4 points. If France wins, Ukraine finishes on 4 points (assuming a draw in the third game). If they draw, Ukraine would end up on 5 points, but with a GD of +1 (again, assuming a draw).

Conclusion: the game against Sweden is a must-win (preferably by a big margin). But it's quite possible for a win and a draw to see them through.

And if Sweden can get anything from France, then a draw/win from England would also be sufficient.
   822. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 11, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4154113)
It's amazing how much more common it is for players on teams that are leading to suffer severe injuries during stoppage time. It's almost like there's some sort of connection there.


I thought the ref properly added time at the end. As I watched it happen I had the same cynical thought you had but he let it play through to just about 95' which was the appropriate adding of time (IMHO). I only saw about 20-25 minutes of the match at various points but I thought the ref did a good job. Not only did he get the stoppage time right not letting Ukraine game the system but I thought he got some tough calls right.
   823. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 11, 2012 at 05:03 PM (#4154126)
One man's thoughts that no one asked for;

Group A - Russia have to feel very good with the big win over the 2nd best team in the group. Good chance that matchday three is a relaxing one for them. Greece and Poland have to be eager but the Czechs should still go through, I think they'll get the 4 points they need.

Group B - The Dutch are in a world of trouble. Germany will look to go for the foot on the throat and I think the Danes will get what they need against Portugal.

Group C - The one group I didn't see so I can't offer much about the Spain-Italy game. Spain should get through and while I am a bit less certain of Italy i think they will too.

Group D - Somewhat similar to Group C. While it's a huge win for Ukraine I imagine both England and France were looking at Ukraine and Sweden as six points to take. Realistically 4 points should be enough because I don't see Ukraine drawing with both.
   824. Mattbert Posted: June 11, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4154160)
For reference, the top Twatball squads in the whole wide world are sitting on 100 points after the first round of games. BTF's "best" are within striking distance!
   825. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 11, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4154167)
Jonathan Wilson is annoyed.

Worse yet, once fans get into the stadium, they're treated like children with attention deficit disorders (and sponsor-appropriate credit cards). Throbbing music makes conversation impossible. Embarrassing cheerleaders attempt to whip the crowd into a frenzy with some terrible version of how they think fans act or talk. (Does any England fan really need a Ukrainian with a microphone shouting "1966" at them?) Then there's the most egregious innovation for this tournament: a countdown to kickoff.

   826. Swedish Chef Posted: June 11, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4154175)
Realistically 4 points should be enough because I don't see Ukraine drawing with both.

They're not all that good and Ukraine is at home. I wouldn't be shocked to see the group finishing something like:

France 7
Ukraine 4
---------
England 3
Sweden 1

Or why not:
Ukraine 6
France 5
-----
England 4
Sweden 1

I don't think England is obvious favorites against Ukraine with home advantage.
   827. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 11, 2012 at 07:52 PM (#4154233)
For reference, the top Twatball squads in the whole wide world are sitting on 100 points after the first round of games. BTF's "best" are within striking distance!
I think it is pretty impressive that of the top 31 Twatball teams, BBTF currently has 3 of them. (Jeffo, tied for 11th & Mattbert and I tied for 23rd.)
   828. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: June 11, 2012 at 10:28 PM (#4154340)
France 7
Ukraine 4
---------
England 3
Sweden 1

Or why not:
Ukraine 6
France 5
-----
England 4
Sweden 1

Oh you unashamed homer!
   829. Juan V Posted: June 12, 2012 at 03:39 AM (#4154431)
I'm watching highlights of France-England. Shocking attendance, you can clearly see the seat colour pattern.
   830. Juan V Posted: June 12, 2012 at 03:42 AM (#4154432)
Even leaving aside England's tendency to drop deep when defending a lead, is it too much to ask to challenge Nasri's shot when he's just outside the box?
   831. Juan V Posted: June 12, 2012 at 03:48 AM (#4154433)
I think it is pretty impressive that of the top 31 Twatball teams, BBTF currently has 3 of them. (Jeffo, tied for 11th & Mattbert and I tied for 23rd.)


*cough cough*
   832. Flynn Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:58 AM (#4154439)
The impression I've got is that everybody seems pretty happy with Poland, but that Ukraine is a much more difficult place to visit for a major tournament.
   833. Juan V Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:05 AM (#4154440)
Shameful demostration of how much attention I've paid to league football this year: I thought Yohan Cabaye was black.
   834. Howling John Shade Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:15 AM (#4154441)
If you can find the time between euro games, Brazil-Argentina from this weekend is about as fun as it gets.
   835. ursus arctos Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:07 AM (#4154478)
Donetsk, where France-England was played, is particularly hard to get to, as well as being short on accommodation. Add to that the fact that the stadium is quite large, that tickets are over-priced for locals, and that France doesn't have a large travelliing support , and you were always going to have empty seats.
   836. Mattbert Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:54 AM (#4154511)
If you can find the time between euro games, Brazil-Argentina from this weekend is about as fun as it gets.

Messi's goal to finish off his hattrick was something else. The first two were pretty nice too, although they were as much about the two perfectly weighted through balls (were those both from Higuain?) as they were about the great finishes from Messi. The third goal, though...man, that was a golazo even by Messi's standards.
   837. Mattbert Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:56 AM (#4154514)
*cough cough*

RB is simply recognizing that your current standing is tainted by the spurious decision to overrule UEFA and award Given an own goal.
   838. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:13 AM (#4154524)
the two perfectly weighted through balls (were those both from Higuain?)
The first was from Higuain, the second from di Maria.
   839. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:18 AM (#4154529)
Rangers are being liquidated and will reemerge as a NewCo.

Not sure what this means re: their placement in the Scottish pyramid. I'm assuming they'll be parachuted right back into the SPL for financial reasons, no?

Rumors!:

PSG are after lil Luka. Rumors are flying in the Spurs blogosphere that 'Arry is getting the sack. Liverpool want Steven Caulker for 8 million. Liverpool also, supposedly, want Solomon Kalou. And in my favorite BS story of the day, Juventus are sending Pavel Nedved to the Euros to sweet talk Robin Van Persie.
   840. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:19 AM (#4154530)
My impression is that international tournaments nearly always have a ton of empty seats, until the semifinal/final stages. Has this not always been true?
   841. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:28 AM (#4154539)
My impression is that international tournaments nearly always have a ton of empty seats, until the semifinal/final stages. Has this not always been true?

Not in the U. S. of ####### A! Actually, I have no idea what % of capacity that tourney had though it remains, I will note, the highest attended Soccer tournament of all time despite the expansion to 32 teams. Enjoy Qatar FIFA!
   842. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM (#4154543)
PSG are after lil Luka. Rumors are flying in the Spurs blogosphere that 'Arry is getting the sack.
I have no idea what Spurs should do, but they need need need to do it quickly. If they're sacking Harry, do it during the Euros (or is that considered bad form?) so they can have a manager in place by the time the transfer market heats up. Since they're almost certainly moving Modric, do it as soon as possible so they can have the money in hand to rebuild the team. My fear is that they're just going to drag it all out and end up with a random collection of 7th place talent.
   843. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4154560)
but they need need need to do it quickly.

This is not Spurs way. I wouldn't worry about the presence or not of 'Arry ahving an effect on transfers. That's mostly done above his head these days. It just means you won't see any veteran goodness coming in the squad, ie. Joe Cole or Rio Ferdinand. I have mixed feelings about Redknapp and I'm ok with him going or staying but, yeah, they need to #### or get off the pot at this point. Either extend him or sack him.

As for Luka, I think they're stuck until after Euros as Luka will have to negotiate personal terms with his suitors and I doubt that heats up until Croatia are out of the tournament. I am through all 5 stages of grief with him leaving, though. Now it's just about how much business Spurs can do and who will replace him. (I actually like the idea of Van der Vaart dropping into a deeper playmaking role and that money spent on a striker or two, FWIW. That would also open up some playing time for Iago Falque.)

   844. Mattbert Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:54 AM (#4154564)
Congratulations to Celtic on your 2013-2038 SPL titles.
   845. Mattbert Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4154571)
I actually like the idea of Van der Vaart dropping into a deeper playmaking role and that money spent on a striker or two, FWIW. That would also open up some playing time for Iago Falque.

A striker or two would be nice, but I'm not as wild about VDV playing deeper. I don't think he's mobile enough or a good enough defender to play that role successfully, especially given his periodic fitness problems.

Falque is a mildly interesting talent, but if he's anything but a Plan C for next season then Spurs are in some trouble.
   846. Richard Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4154572)
I think SPL rules mean that Rangers should be thrown out and made to begin in a lower league but there is likely to be some sort of shameful deal conducted whereby they will stay in the league as a new company and will be debt free. the other teams will vote for this because they think they "need" Rangers, which is nonsense in my view.
   847. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:03 AM (#4154573)
This is not Spurs way
I've gathered that. I just hope that maybe they realize it's a dumb way.
I wouldn't worry about the presence or not of 'Arry ahving an effect on transfers. That's mostly done above his head these days.
Sure, but that's also bad, right? The lack of squad rotation that helped lose 3rd place had a lot to do with Harry only liking a subset of the players he was given. Spurs aren't moving Modric for money to spend on just one guy, it should be several. It's really important that the manager likes those players and wants to give them all a reasonable shot.

I guess maybe what I'm saying is they should sack 'Arry if he's not going to either (a) be significantly involved in and committed to the transfers or (b) be willing to play whoever he's given.
I actually like the idea of Van der Vaart dropping into a deeper playmaking role and that money spent on a striker or two,
I like that a lot. It's a little worrisome to drop VdV deeper given that he doesn't defend, but if they rotate two of Parker/Sandro/Livermore in holding positions, they should be able to do ok. He's certainly got the creative skills to be effective there, though you need a sub from the 75th minute on to pick up the slack.
   848. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:11 AM (#4154584)
A striker or two would be nice, but I'm not as wild about VDV playing deeper. I don't think he's mobile enough or a good enough defender to play that role successfully, especially given his periodic fitness problems.

I think he'd have to be paired with SANDRO!, but he's great at keeping possession and his long passes to unleash Bale and Lennon are works of art. Of course, he'd have to want to change roles, too. Thud should be back to pick up some of the slack when VDV needs time off, too. I'm under no illusion he'd be as good as Modric in that role, but getting a Modric level replacement ain't going to happen, sadly.

   849. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM (#4154587)
Falque is a mildly interesting talent, but if he's anything but a Plan C for next season then Spurs are in some trouble.

Plan C is fine. I'd like to see him brought along, though. He could develop into a Juan Mata-like player, I think.
   850. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4154608)
I think he'd have to be paired with SANDRO!, but he's great at keeping possession and his long passes to unleash Bale and Lennon are works of art.
I was imagining a 4-2-3-1 with Sandro and another holding mid (Parker/Livermore) behind a midfield three of a deeper, central VdV and Bale/Lennon on the wings. Plus, you know, a striker who could strike and be good and score those goal-things.
   851. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:38 AM (#4154616)
I was imagining a 4-2-3-1 with Sandro and another holding mid (Parker/Livermore) behind a midfield three of a deeper, central VdV and Bale/Lennon on the wings. Plus, you know, a striker who could strike and be good and score those goal-things.

Sounds good to me--I think that tilts Spurs back a little more to a counterattacking team which is fine with me. That's a good team, assuming we get a decent striker. If I had a few hours, I could list all the strikers we've been linked with...
   852. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4154628)
I think that tilts Spurs back a little more to a counterattacking team which is fine with me.
I think moving to more of a counter-attack focus would really help Bale. He seemed to get lost sometimes last year when he'd start rampaging down the field, but there would already be two guys sitting in deep positions waiting for him. If Spurs were playing more on the counter, it would be harder for defenses to game him like that. Given that Bale is clearly the best player on the squad if Modric leaves, they should tailor their strategies to maximize his impact.

One other thing. Where does Dos Santos play when he's amazing for Mexico? Am I right that they play him in a sort of #10 role, sitting off of Hernandez at striker? If that's right, and they'd actually play him, he could be a very useful substitute for Spurs - they could bring Dos Santos in to play behind the admittedly still hypothetical striker if they needed a more offensive-minded squad.
   853. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:57 AM (#4154634)

So Poland will probably park the bus today- Smuda's already announced he's replacing attacking midfielder Rybus with defensive mid Dudka. Which is fine I guess; the best Poland can hope for today is a draw and I think they do better on the counter anyway.

In the other game I think I'm hoping for a Czech win. At the very least that will give Poland a chance to control their own destiny heading into Saturday (assuming Greece can't defeat Russia, even Russia's B-team).
   854. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:01 PM (#4154635)
I hate this shitty game already.
   855. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4154639)
One other thing. Where does Dos Santos play when he's amazing for Mexico?

I'm just assuming he's leaving unless 1) Spurs really have a new manager 2) That new manager makes it a point at the press conference to talk about how much he wants to play Dos Santos. Can't really blame Dos Santos for wanting to leave at this point.

GOOOAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL!
   856. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4154641)
Now that was shitty defensive play.
   857. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4154642)
Really bad start for Greece. With Russia looming they need all 3 points.
   858. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4154643)
So now what do I do for the next 2 hours?
   859. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4154644)
What Greece need more than anything else are bodyguards.
   860. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4154648)
Katsouranis should think about his dignity, taking a straight red would be far more manly than being humiliated like this. That I have him in twatball is in no way related.
   861. DA Baracus Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4154652)
So now what do I do for the next 2 hours?


Work?

Great, Gekas is on the bench. My Twatball team is not amused.
   862. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4154653)
Work?

Now, now, no need to panic like that.
   863. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4154656)
Watching Greece is work!
   864. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4154664)
you're not bleeding, dude.
   865. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:28 PM (#4154668)
This has the potential for escalation.
   866. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:38 PM (#4154675)
Flopping when offside should earn #### points.
   867. Mattbert Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:38 PM (#4154677)
Bad, bad Greek defending but that was a very classy first touch and finish from Jiracek for the opener. Keystone Cops for the second, of course.

As for Spurs, there are some matchups where playing two defensive mids (Sandro, Parker, Livermore in some combination) is a good idea, e.g. against the most potent attacking sides like the Manchesters, Arsenal, etc. The problem with being a counterattacking team, though, is that it takes two to tango. You have to be attacked in order to counter effectively, and in the vast majority of their games Spurs are going to have the onus of breaking the other team down.

There are only five, maybe six, out of the nineteen other teams that would do Spurs the favor of committing men forward and giving them regular opportunities on the break. When you're one of the top sides in the league, you have to be able to find a way through teams who set out their stall to defend. Because that is going to happen a lot.

One other thing. Where does Dos Santos play when he's amazing for Mexico? Am I right that they play him in a sort of #10 role, sitting off of Hernandez at striker? If that's right, and they'd actually play him, he could be a very useful substitute for Spurs - they could bring Dos Santos in to play behind the admittedly still hypothetical striker if they needed a more offensive-minded squad.

When the Mexicans played mostly 4-3-3, Gio was usually deployed on the right-hand side of the front three. I think that's still his best position. I have not seen much of Mexico lately, but I get the sense they have changed their tactics a bit and Gio is indeed playing more centrally. I think he can do the proverbial job there, but it wouldn't be my first choice of a role for him at club level.

Gio plays with a lot more confidence for Mexico--and often against lesser opposition than he sees for Spurs--so his game seems to play up a bit on international duty. When he gets a cameo with Tottenham, I feel like he often tries to do too much in a vain attempt to impress.
   868. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4154679)
Almost game on...
   869. squatto Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4154682)
What Greece need more than anything else are bodyguards.

Will UEFA grant Greece some extra goals if they find themselves short?
   870. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4154684)
I think he can do the proverbial job there, but it wouldn't be my first choice of a role for him at club level.

And in Harry's world there is no such thing as second fiddle.
   871. Mattbert Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4154686)
Will UEFA grant Greece some extra goals if they find themselves short?

It's really too bad that Greece didn't join Spain, Italy, and Ireland in Group C. Lots of people are still calling that the Group of Debt, even with Croatia in there instead - but Greece would have made it perfect.
   872. Mattbert Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4154687)
And in Harry's world there is no such thing as second fiddle.

That's a different issue. Harry is quite happy to play guys in positions that are not their best, provided they are his first-choice guys.
   873. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4154695)
Advice for the punters or things you will never see in American sports.

Can you imagine Tom Coughlin giving gambling advice?
   874. squatto Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4154696)
It's really too bad that Greece didn't join Spain, Italy, and Ireland in Group C. Lots of people are still calling that the Group of Debt, even with Croatia in there instead - but Greece would have made it perfect.

Excellent.
   875. ursus arctos Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4154699)
846 is correct on the Rangers' analysis.

A post-liquidation Newco should start in the Scottish Third Division, but many believe that some kind of deal will be done to prevent them from falling that far (or, perhaps, at all).
   876. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4154703)
There are Russia supporters in Poland? I am confused.
   877. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4154704)
A post-liquidation Newco should start in the Scottish Third Division, but many believe that some kind of deal will be done to prevent them from falling that far (or, perhaps, at all).

How are the creditors going to get their money? Are they going to sell every first team player and the stadium?
   878. Baldrick Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4154708)
Hey people, there is a tournament going on here. Will the new BBTF have a separate Spurs micro for talk about 'Arry? I look forward to the day!

For the Czech-Greece game, I missed the opening 10 minutes (the first 10 minutes I've missed of the tournament so far) and it was already 2-0. Bad time to be on the road...
   879. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4154716)
How are the creditors going to get their money? Are they going to sell every first team player and the stadium?

The administrators have sold the club's assets to Charles Green for £5.5M, so they'll split that.

EDIT: Also, the taxman wants to go after the former owners. Which is a big part of why they didn't want administration.
   880. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4154718)
Hey people, there is a tournament going on here.

There's no football game on now, though.
   881. DA Baracus Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4154724)
It's really too bad that Greece didn't join Spain, Italy, and Ireland in Group C. Lots of people are still calling that the Group of Debt, even with Croatia in there instead - but Greece would have made it perfect.


Yeah, we were hoping for that when they made the draw--it was a real possibility--but 3 out of 4 ain't bad.
   882. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4154728)
Great, Gekas is on the bench. My Twatball team is not amused.

Happy now?
   883. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4154735)
I think Cech was just getting bored, too.
   884. DA Baracus Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4154737)
Happy now?


No, I just lost points.
   885. Baldrick Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4154744)
If there were a tournament of only second halves, Greece would be a lot better.
   886. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4154749)
I think Cech was just getting bored, too.

Mabe if he didn't wear that stupid head pad, he wouldn't play like a rugby player...
   887. Mattbert Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4154776)
If any of you had Daniel Kolar in Twatball, congratulations. He came on for Rosicky at halftime and then got subbed off himself on 90 minutes. Also picked up a booking while he was out there.

18 points right there!
   888. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4154793)
What is the political/historical significance/purpose behind the Russian march on Warsaw today? Or is it just a bunch of excited fans (probably naive)?
   889. Bowling Baseball Fan Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4154795)
Poland pick(+125) Over 2.5(+120) Moneyline (+230)
Russia pick(-155) Under2.5(-155) Moneyline (+130)
Draw (+235)

Any picks out there?
   890. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4154797)
Evidently today's the anniversary of Poland breaking off from the Soviet Union, but I'm not sure what point the Russian fans are trying to make by marching to mark the occasion. It seems kind of dickish of them but I have to admit I am ignorant of what's behind all of this.
   891. Textbook Editor Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4154800)
Normally, as I married into it, I'd root for Italy were Ireland to fall by the boards, but after this, I'm not sure I can root for Italy. The knuckle-dragging really is quite awful to see laid bare.
   892. ursus arctos Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4154814)
Today is the national holiday of the Russian Federation, a holiday that marks the 1990 declaration of sovereignty by Russia (and thus, implicitly, the end of the USSR).

The march is provocation, pure and simple.
   893. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4154816)
The crowd looks insane. Partly in a "this should be fun" way, partly in an "acts of violence likely" sort of way.
   894. Bowling Baseball Fan Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4154817)
I'm going Russia -155. Its the safest.
   895. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:42 PM (#4154820)
According to Yahoo UK the referee has handed out 12 red cards in 39 matches this year. Gotta think with everything surrounding this game there is a high likelihood of someone getting sent off today.
   896. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:47 PM (#4154826)
I'm going Russia -155. Its the safest.

Unless I am reading that wrong you get better odds on Russia (+130). Which strikes me as pretty good, although maybe an overreaction to 1 game...

The -155 is for the under 2.5 (i.e. less than 3 goals scored in the game). Which looks horrible. I like the over at better than even odds.
   897. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:47 PM (#4154828)
And more from Yahoo UK;

We're getting reports from our colleagues in Poland that a Russian fan died after those clashes earlier. Also that at least nine more from both sides have been injured, with dozens arrested. More as it comes...
   898. Bowling Baseball Fan Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:49 PM (#4154830)
Yeah, I think the 1-1 draw is a very real possibility. But Russia is more talented and on the road. I put a small one on the draw, too.
   899. DA Baracus Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:51 PM (#4154834)
From my twitter feed, the reports of a dead fan seem to be wrong.
   900. ursus arctos Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4154842)
Yes, the Polish police have denied it.

The massive "This Is Russia" banner with the medieval soldier on it will not go down well in Warsaw (or my office, for that matter).
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