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Wednesday, May 07, 2014

OT: The Soccer Thread May, 2014

Real and Atletico go two rounds. Can Liverpool come back? Will Arsenal finally win a trophy?

May 7: Man City v. Aston Villa, Valladolid v. Real Madrid, Copa Liberatadores Quarterfinals (1st legs)
May 8: Copa Liberatadores Quarterfinals (1st legs)
May 10: Inter v. Lazio
May 11: Liverpool v. Newcastle, Man City v. West Ham, Atletico v. Malaga, Celta de Vigo v. Real Madrid, Roma v. Juventus
May 13: Germany v. Poland
May 14: Sevilla v. Benfica, Copa Liberatadores Quarterfinals (2nd legs)
May 15: Copa Liberatadores Quarterfinals (2nd legs)
May 16: Barcelona v. Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid v. Espanyol
May 17: FA Cup Final (Arsenal v. Hull City), DFB Pokal (Dortmund v. Bayern)
May 24: Champions League Final (Real Madrid v. Atletico Madrid)
May 27: USA v. Azerbaijan, Scotland v. Nigeria
May 28: Denmark v. Sweden, Mexico v. Israel, Cameroon v. Paraguay, Honduras v. Turkey
May 29: Chile v. Egypt, Spain v. Bolivia
May 30: England v. Peru, Portugal v. Greece, Netherlands v. Ghana
May 31: Mexico v. Ecuador, France v. Paraguay

Howling John Shade Posted: May 07, 2014 at 03:40 AM | 1176 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

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Page 9 of 12 pages ‹ First  < 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 > 
   801. puck Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:32 PM (#4712801)
Bale bodied off the ball by Villa?
   802. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:33 PM (#4712802)
That is a great couple minutes from David Villa.
   803. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:33 PM (#4712803)
I'd play this to the corner and keep possession.
   804. puck Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4712804)
Kind of confusing when the flip the camera around like that. What is this, cricket?
   805. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4712805)
There are more than 447 Atleti fans at this game.
   806. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:35 PM (#4712806)
Bale bodied off the ball by Villa?


Lovely, just lovely.

C'mon Athleti!!!
   807. puck Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:35 PM (#4712808)
How long has this been going on? It's like a 20 minute penalty kill.
   808. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4712810)
Not a huge fan of the short corner at this point in the game.
   809. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4712811)
And that's why. Dammit.
   810. puck Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4712812)
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   811. Howling John Shade Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4712813)
Holy crap.
   812. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4712814)
Oh noes! Ramos, too. AND I have to go to a Bar Mitzvah so I can't see extra time. Worst day ever!
   813. Mefisto Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4712815)
Holy ####.
   814. puck Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4712816)
Ramos's late season goal scoring has been incredible. That's a helluva header.
   815. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4712818)
It's been coming.

Now, it's ALL to play for.
   816. Howling John Shade Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:38 PM (#4712819)
It's hard to be angry about getting 30 more minutes of this, but I'm not sure that Atletico have anything left.
   817. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:39 PM (#4712821)
Agreed with Darkness here. It's hard to know what Atleti have left. No subs left on either side right? That makes it interesting.
   818. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:39 PM (#4712822)
EXTRA ####### TIME.

Hard to see that Athleti can come through this, it's been one way traffic.
   819. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:41 PM (#4712823)
Heineken makes great commercials, unfortunately, they also make beer ...
   820. frannyzoo Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:49 PM (#4712828)
Heineken makes great commercials, unfortunately, they also make beer ...


As one who is currently on their third Lagunitas Undercover Shut-down Investigation, I can only say that I'm most likely going to need more of them in extra-time. The Derby/Atleti combo today has, to now, confirmed my suspicions that sports is 100% about dealing with losing.
   821. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:49 PM (#4712829)
And now, the "9 minutes" really hurts ...
   822. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:54 PM (#4712832)
Man, I sooooooooooooooooooooooo want Athleti to win this, but if Real does, I can't begrudge them, they've never stopped coming ...
   823. AuntBea Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4712833)
Ronaldo calling for a handball off the wall. What a wanker.
   824. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4712834)
Yeah whoever pulls this out will have an awful lot to be proud of. This game has been everything you'd want from either a derby or a CL final.
   825. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4712836)
I don't think that was a corner. Didn't look like it got all the way over on that replay.

Atleti have to do better on that chance.
   826. AuntBea Posted: May 24, 2014 at 04:59 PM (#4712837)
Yeah I don't understand that about soccer. I've been watching and playing all my life, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen the refs and linesmen still call balls that are clearly only on the line, out of bounds. There is definitely a bias towards ruling them out of bounds, not sure why.
   827. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:00 PM (#4712839)
Simeone still has pretty good wheels.
   828. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:01 PM (#4712840)
Ugh, ####, don't be a #### Simeone ...
   829. AuntBea Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:02 PM (#4712841)
If that had been called a handball (and penalty kick), it might have been the very worst call in the history of champions league finals.
   830. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:04 PM (#4712842)
15 from pks.
   831. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:05 PM (#4712843)
Certainly would've been awfully harsh. I think he stuck the elbow out but that NEVER gets given.
   832. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:05 PM (#4712844)
This really is the FA Cup all over again.
   833. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4712845)
Ugh.
   834. puck Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4712847)
Dammit, during the break before the 2nd 15 I was going to post that Bale would score, I swear.
   835. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4712848)
Jesus Carlo, smile.
   836. Howling John Shade Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:09 PM (#4712849)
Wow. Just magic from Di Maria.
   837. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4712850)
Blargh ... Bat Boy to Bale.

Meh.
   838. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4712851)
I just can't see how Atleti can do this.
   839. Swedish Chef Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4712852)
Di Maria is easily the man of the match.
   840. greenback calls it soccer Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4712853)
Real might score again the way this is going.
   841. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:12 PM (#4712854)
Di Maria is easily the man of the match.


No question. He has been sensational.
   842. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:12 PM (#4712855)
Athleti must remember and believe this: "There is only one god, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: 'Not today'."
   843. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:13 PM (#4712856)

No question. He has been sensational.


Bat Boy has been a ... monster???
   844. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:15 PM (#4712859)
I go back to that 90th minute free kick on the edge of the box Atleti had. The shot was handled easily by Casillas and the pressure was on again. I really would have liked them to go to the corner with it and get some respite.

Ugh.
   845. puck Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:15 PM (#4712860)
It is finished.
   846. Howling John Shade Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:16 PM (#4712861)
And that's it.
   847. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:16 PM (#4712862)
And ... done.

I stand by [822], but it still stinks like ... death.
   848. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:17 PM (#4712863)
Oh this doesn't deserve to be like this.
   849. frannyzoo Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:18 PM (#4712864)
Thank you Atletico. It's been a wonderful, wonderful season o' fandom.
   850. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:18 PM (#4712865)
Nice FLOP to finish this one off ...
   851. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:19 PM (#4712866)
Real have earned these celebrations but it just feels wrong. Atleti have been so terrific all year and all night.
   852. Langer Monk Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:19 PM (#4712867)
Do they salt the earth next?
   853. puck Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:19 PM (#4712868)
Someone please kick him in the balls for ripping his jersey off at 3-0.
   854. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:19 PM (#4712869)
C'mon Diego. Finish with honor.
   855. Howling John Shade Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:20 PM (#4712871)
Man, a Simeone/Ronaldo throwdown would really complete the experience.
   856. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:20 PM (#4712872)
What did I say earlier?

828. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:01 PM (#4712840)


Ugh, ####, don't be a #### Simeone ...


C'mon, Ronaldo's a ####'s ####, be better than that ...
   857. Howling John Shade Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:21 PM (#4712874)
When Sergio Ramos is lecturing you on class, something has gone terribly wrong.
   858. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:23 PM (#4712875)
Brutal for Athleti, no matter their effort and heart, just brutal.

Gah.
   859. Howling John Shade Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:23 PM (#4712876)
Terrific game. Sucks that Real won, but Atleti left everything out there.
   860. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:25 PM (#4712878)
Man, anyone who goes ahead and actually punches Ronaldo, I'll stand his bail ...
   861. puck Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:25 PM (#4712879)
#859 nails it for me. What a game even though I wanted Atleti to win.
   862. JuanGone..except1game Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:26 PM (#4712880)
This ####### sucks. Athleti had a spectacular season, but just ran out of steam.

Do we think Varane brought out the chocking sign or something? It was go time for Simeone
   863. Langer Monk Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:30 PM (#4712882)
Juanfran's ankle injury sure made things that much more difficult for Atletico.
   864. I am going to be Frank Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:40 PM (#4712883)
Hindsight being 20/20 but 9 minutes of Costa did not help. Sigh... a couple weeks of friendlies and then the World Cup!
   865. frannyzoo Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:41 PM (#4712884)
See you all in a few weeks. I'm taking a break until the WC madness descends. Go Ghana (well, go whoever is playing the USMNT).
   866. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:47 PM (#4712887)
Go Ghana (well, go whoever is playing the USMNT).


Is this a Donovan thing?
   867. Swedish Chef Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:50 PM (#4712891)
See you all in a few weeks. I'm taking a break until the WC madness descends. Go Ghana (well, go whoever is playing the USMNT).

Is there a better sign that the US has evolved into a real football nation than having fans so disgusted by their national team that they actively root for them to lose? Every great football nation has those.
   868. frannyzoo Posted: May 24, 2014 at 05:51 PM (#4712892)
No, just the typical anti-American American thing. Let it pass. Sorry I brought it up. Instead, can we just talk about how Atletico came within 2.5 minutes of the greatest Double possible?
   869. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 06:06 PM (#4712894)
Let it pass. Sorry I brought it up.


Fair enough ...
   870. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: May 24, 2014 at 06:38 PM (#4712908)
Man, Bat Boy had a hell of a game today ...
   871. Howling John Shade Posted: May 24, 2014 at 08:42 PM (#4712939)
Something I saw mentioned elsewhere which hadn't occurred to me but rings very true: that was a fantastic refereeing job by Kuipers.
   872. Baldrick Posted: May 24, 2014 at 09:00 PM (#4712947)
What a depressing conclusion to a really amazing game.

Still, the amazingness is going to stick with me longer than being bummed about the result. Truly impressive performance by Atletico, dogged work by Real, some wonderful skill on display. And the final 30-40 minutes of agonized players with bursting lungs giving every single ounce of energy was incredible to watch.

It's been a fun year. Great lead-in to the World Cup.
   873. Mefisto Posted: May 24, 2014 at 09:10 PM (#4712955)
Truly, that was one of the greatest defensive fights I've ever seen from any team.
   874. DA Baracus Posted: May 24, 2014 at 09:39 PM (#4712973)
I'm going to miss the last 15 minutes of this game, so of course that's when the game will be decided.


Like clockwork.
   875. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 24, 2014 at 09:44 PM (#4712977)
Something I saw mentioned elsewhere which hadn't occurred to me but rings very true: that was a fantastic refereeing job by Kuipers.


I assume he was the referee today? It says a lot that I didn't catch the name. Other than Ronaldo screaming for the handball nothing too contentious and I think he generally did a good job of letting Atleti tactically foul without making a mockery of things. I.E. the anti-Howard Webb.
   876. frannyzoo Posted: May 24, 2014 at 10:51 PM (#4713011)
A few hours to "calm" down now and relish in agreement with the comments above. Great game and almost. Kuipers did do a good job, although Atletico wasn't quite as chippy as in the league/Copa. Maybe that's another sign that he did a good job.

   877. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: May 25, 2014 at 05:29 AM (#4713057)
Truly, that was one of the greatest defensive fights I've ever seen from any team.

I would still take Chelsea's win over Barcelona for the top spot.
   878. puck Posted: May 25, 2014 at 02:31 PM (#4713135)
EPL free transfer list.

A couple years ago Marc Albrighton was getting a lot of playing time and it seemed like he was a cromulnet winger. Now he's free.
   879. Mefisto Posted: May 25, 2014 at 05:09 PM (#4713187)
Donovan's interview comments in today's LA Times pretty strongly suggest that he thinks the decision was personal. I'd like not to believe that, but it's hard to come up with another reason.
   880. Howling John Shade Posted: May 25, 2014 at 10:20 PM (#4713288)
No idea how true it is, but the rumor is that Spurs cleared an additional £20 million from the Modric and Bale sales due to RM's win.
   881. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 26, 2014 at 12:29 AM (#4713321)
I would still take Chelsea's win over Barcelona for the top spot.


I thought Atletico were better yesterday, at least for the first 90. Barca did score two goals that night, hit a couple of posts and Messi missed a penalty. Real did not really generate a lot of chances other throughout the match and I thought Atleti did a terrific job of getting back and stopping Real's transition game. In fairness Chelsea were down to ten men for close to an hour so there is a case for them but I just thought Atletico were excellent and Chelsea were frankly a bit lucky.
   882. Manny Coon Posted: May 26, 2014 at 01:02 AM (#4713328)
Donovan sure didn't look out of shape or out of form tonight, in case there was any question about whether the decision was personal. But at least Team USA has Brad Davis and Julian Green to save the day and Davis is a young 32 years old unlike old man Donovan.
   883. Baldrick Posted: May 26, 2014 at 03:11 AM (#4713338)
The more I think about this Donovan thing, the more it frustrates me.

I don't like the idea of taking a guy simply because he has a history. But as long as Donovan has a reasonable case as being in the best 23 guys, he should be there. I've never been his biggest fan, but if we're down 0-1 to Germany in the 80th minute and we need a point to get through, I want Landon out there.
   884. Scott Lange Posted: May 26, 2014 at 09:03 AM (#4713361)
How can there be any question that it was personal after the tweet from Klinsmann's son? The case was pretty close to open-and-shut just based on what we know about Donovan and what we know about several of the players taken in front of him, but the tweet really seals it for me.

I'm finding it very hard to imagine enthusiastically rooting for the team this summer. I'm sure I'll come around, but man, its tough right now.
   885. DA Baracus Posted: May 26, 2014 at 09:37 AM (#4713367)
“I asked Jurgen for an explanation,” Goodson said. “It was something that he was unwilling to give me. He said that he would speak with me after the World Cup about it, and I said that I thought I certainly deserved an explanation. And it was something that he was unwilling to give.”

Goodson allowed that Klinsmann could have already had his 23-man roster in mind before the USMNT training camp convened at Stanford on May 14.

“It’s certainly possible,” Goodson said. “We trained in two groups. There were some guys I never really saw. I was one of the best in the things that I did, I felt. I was winning games and did a good job. If you’re basing it just upon the camp, I certainly think that I was deserving to go. And even outside of the camp, the things I’ve done in the past would have earned me a spot.”


Welp.
   886. Mefisto Posted: May 26, 2014 at 10:29 AM (#4713380)
That sucks that Klinsmann wouldn't give Goodson an explanation, even it's something simple like "Cameron is faster than you are" or "Gonzalez is better in the air" or whatever. Still, Goodson was always on the bubble in my view, so I can understand that call. Donovan's a completely different story.
   887. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 26, 2014 at 04:53 PM (#4713547)
So it's clear a few folks have axes to grind with Klinsmann, justifiable or not. But we don't really know the whole story and I doubt we'll find out the truth through press interviews with Donovan, Goodson, or Klinsmann. So I'm hesitant to lump this all on Klinsmann.

I go back to that 2013 SI article after the US got off to a poor start in qualification. Just a nasty, borderline-xenophobic article claiming the German-Americans on the team were ruining "team chemistry" and bullshit like that. So I'm not sure if all those questioning Klinsmann's methods are doing it for legitimate, or if they're just upset he's brought in some new guys.

Then the US won the Gold Cup and placed first in CONCACAF qualification. So for the time being I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Personally, I think Klinsmann should've just swallowed his pride and gave Donovan a roster spot. That snubs sucks. But are we really upset Clarence Goodson didn't make the roster?

   888. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 26, 2014 at 05:03 PM (#4713550)
Yeah, the snub of Donovan is the thing that bothers me, it strikes me as a power play. If Klinsmann feels like he still doesn't have full respect from the team a month before the World Cup, that's a very bad thing. If Klinsmann is just being a jackass, that's also a bad thing, but not as worrisome. But it's clearly not because Donovan didn't deserve to make the team. The US has done well enough over the last couple years that I'm happy to give Klinsmann the benefit of the doubt, he's earned it, but I'm still sad that Donovan isn't going to Brazil.
   889. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 26, 2014 at 06:13 PM (#4713608)
I think part of the issue here is why it is often tough for great players to become great managers. Someone with more knowledge of Klinsmann's playing career can correct me but a late-prime elite player taking time off to tour Cambodia like Donovan did last year has to be perplexing to Klinsmann.
   890. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 27, 2014 at 07:51 AM (#4713785)
Manager news!

Looks like Pochettino will be named Spurs manager either today or tomorrow. At Milan, Inzaghi takes over for Seedorf. I guess Seedorf is just the Tim Sherwood of Serie A...

WahWah Toure would be honored to play for PSG. He is really pushing for that raise and/or cake.
   891. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: May 27, 2014 at 08:43 AM (#4713798)
The cake is a lie.
   892. I am going to be Frank Posted: May 27, 2014 at 08:46 AM (#4713799)
So does anyone know what Turkish players I should be looking forward to watching for Sunday's friendly? I'd imagine Sahin and Turan probably won't get called up because of injuries, so I guess Yilmaz... and?
   893. I am going to be Frank Posted: May 27, 2014 at 08:54 AM (#4713801)
Nm - it looks like Sahin played on Sunday against Ireland and Yilmaz didn't seem to be called up. I guess that could all change by Sunday.
   894. Flynn Posted: May 27, 2014 at 09:31 AM (#4713810)
Klinsmann's like a BigSoccer poster who's never forgiven Landycakes for pussying out of the Bundesliga. I go either way on it. He's still clearly one of the 23 best American players, but he's never been the player he could be due to his unwillingness to test himself. I can see how Klinsmann, who excelled in the club game in Germany, Italy and England, doesn't respect that.
   895. DA Baracus Posted: May 27, 2014 at 10:27 AM (#4713846)
Klinsmann's like a BigSoccer poster who's never forgiven Landycakes for pussying out of the Bundesliga.


Grant Wahl pretty much says the same thing, that Klinsmann's still pissed at him for being one of the reasons Klinsmann would up laying out the blueprint for David Moyes on how to miss every expectation and be fired before the end of the season and be replaced by Louis van Gaal.
   896. Topher Posted: May 27, 2014 at 01:15 PM (#4713955)
(I'm not buying it but ...) Klinsmann could have a legitimate problem with Donovan in that he sees him as a Samir Nasri type player that if he isn't starting is going to perhaps more trouble than he's worth. If that were Klinsmann's thinking, it is not the type of thing you mention to the public. Klinsmann would also have some first hand experience with how Donovan adjusts to coming off the bench going back to the Bayern Munich days.
   897. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 27, 2014 at 01:17 PM (#4713958)
Pochettino is official. Sorry Southampton! Laudrup the early favorite for the Soton job but I think they'll go with McLaren or Yakin with Eddie Howe the dark horse.
   898. ursus arctos Posted: May 27, 2014 at 01:18 PM (#4713960)
Pochettino now officially Tottenham manager.

Five year contract.

I'm very positive about this appointment from a Spurs perspective, though it will be interesting to see what his approach is to the current squad. A major clear out (particularly of players who were injured this season) would be a black mark in my book.

I think this is just lazy journalism, but a QPR defense "anchored" (literally) by Rio Ferdinand and Michael Dawson would be entertaining.
   899. DA Baracus Posted: May 27, 2014 at 01:22 PM (#4713966)
Klinsmann could have a legitimate problem with Donovan in that he sees him as a Samir Nasri type player that if he isn't starting is going to perhaps more trouble than he's worth.


If Klinsmann thinks that then he's off his rocker. That's not Donovan.
   900. Swedish Chef Posted: May 27, 2014 at 01:25 PM (#4713971)
Five year contract.

And this time they mean it!
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