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Monday, October 27, 2014

OT: Wrestling Thread November 2014

Given that the old wrestling thread got shut down, here is a new one that shamelessly links to my Hell in a Cell review!

aberg Posted: October 27, 2014 at 01:47 PM | 1738 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: wrestling

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   1. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 27, 2014 at 03:46 PM (#4828179)
Turns out I don't watch the "special events" any more regularly with the Network than I did without it. I think Wrestlemania, TLC, and Summerslam are the only ones I've watched in real-time, and that was because I had people over for it. There's just too much overexposure for what seems like a thinned out roster right now. I can't really get excited, which sucks, because from the Bryan angle kicking off at Summerslam to about a month after its finale at WM XXX, I was watching more current WWE than I had in probably 10 years.
   2. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 27, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4828192)
Ox Baker died last week, in case anybody remembers the days when professional wrestlers were to be feared by the general populous, rather than regarded as mere entertainers.
   3. Gch exhales the vast drunken folly of Epicurus Posted: October 27, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4828193)
Great, now I have a place to quote Chris Jericho's story about the time Vince McMahon, Dean Malenko, Fit Finlay, and himself almost got into a fight with Mickey Rourke, Frank Shamrock, an Israeli bounty hunter and another unidentified bodyguard:

He motioned at Dean Malenko and Fit Finlay, who were talking at ringside. “You, me, Finlay, and Malenko would’ve beat the #### out of them. I mean look at that one guy. . . . He’s a midget!” The “midget” Vince was referring to was Shamrock, the multiple-time UFC champion. I smiled at Vince and said, “Well, if anything goes down, I’ll take Rourke and you take the midget.” “Damn right I will,” he murmured and swaggered out of the ring.
   4. Bote Man Posted: October 27, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4828196)
Honest question: don't all these off-topic threads belong over in the lounge? That's set up for pure discussions more than the Newsstand is. Although there are some shady characters over in the lounge, I'll grant you that.
   5. aberg Posted: October 27, 2014 at 04:00 PM (#4828197)
I would do just about anything in my power to avoid fighting Fit Finlay.
   6. Gch exhales the vast drunken folly of Epicurus Posted: October 27, 2014 at 04:01 PM (#4828201)
Ox Baker died last week, in case anybody remembers the days when professional wrestlers were to be feared by the general populous, rather than regarded as mere entertainers.


I don't know, Baker's appearance on The Price Is Right is pretty entertaining and not exactly fearsome.
   7. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 27, 2014 at 04:05 PM (#4828210)
I didn't see Bob Barker playing any grabass with him.

I love the way Ox just effortlessly flips the Big Wheel with one hand and send it whirring.
   8. The District Attorney Posted: October 27, 2014 at 04:38 PM (#4828247)
Honest question: don't all these off-topic threads belong over in the lounge? That's set up for pure discussions more than the Newsstand is. Although there are some shady characters over in the lounge, I'll grant you that.
Well, you're not wrong. IIRC, the politics thread devotees proferred the Gamergate-esque logic that it would be censorship not to have their opinions broadcast in the most visible manner possible. Thus, it was decided that OT would remain on the Newsstand, but there would be functionality added to let people filter out OT. Then... that never happened. So I don't know where we're at now.

I don't know, Baker's appearance on The Price Is Right is pretty entertaining and not exactly fearsome.
And Bob Barker was the best Raw "celebrity guest host" in history! (But man, was that whole thing a total waste of time.)
   9. Man o' Schwar Posted: October 27, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4828279)
I don't know, Baker's appearance on The Price Is Right is pretty entertaining and not exactly fearsome.

I love this. I can't imagine any current WWE performer showing up like this, under their real name. Plus you can see he's clearly at ease with a microphone and addressing a crowd - both he and Barker seem to be having fun.

Growing up, I remember all the hoopla around the deadly "heart punch" of Ox Baker. Banned in 49 states! Killed a guy in the ring!

These days, Vince would probably give him El Torito as his mini-Ox sidekick and turn him into a comedy act.
   10. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: October 27, 2014 at 05:11 PM (#4828280)
I had never seen that Ox Baker/TPIR clip before. That's gold! I can only imagine the producers took a look at him and put a special mark on his audience card to get him called.

I was around 10 the first time I saw him heart-punch some jobber. I thought Ox killed him.
   11. Man o' Schwar Posted: October 27, 2014 at 05:12 PM (#4828282)
I would do just about anything in my power to avoid fighting Fit Finlay.

Everyone always says, out of the universe of wrestlers, the one no one ever tangled with was Meng.

But yeah, Finlay, I suspect he'd beat you up with a smile on his face the whole time.
   12. Man o' Schwar Posted: October 27, 2014 at 05:16 PM (#4828289)
Honest question: don't all these off-topic threads belong over in the lounge? That's set up for pure discussions more than the Newsstand is. Although there are some shady characters over in the lounge, I'll grant you that.

From what I remember - when the first forums were posted, the idea was that the Lounge would move over, and then as threads moved off-topic (meaning off-topic from baseball), they would be switched to the forums for the discussion to continue.

But the loudest contingent of loudmouths who wanted nothing more than to call each other diaper babies and preen about their misplaced sense of intelligence complained that they would rather leave the site than be banished to the forums. And rather than letting them all leave, the compromise was that all of the politics and other crap that was clogging up every thread would be channeled into one uber-thread. This then begat the various OT threads, including this one.

Logically, they all belong in the forums. There are even spaces set up in the forums for them. But I believe TPTB long ago gave up trying to convince people to go there. So now it's just the Lounge, a lonely outpost of weirdness.
   13. Gch exhales the vast drunken folly of Epicurus Posted: October 27, 2014 at 07:53 PM (#4828388)
I love this. I can't imagine any current WWE performer showing up like this, under their real name.


Brian Kendrick, come on down! Doesn't count as current, but he was wrestling in TNA at the time.

And Bob Barker was the best Raw "celebrity guest host" in history! (But man, was that whole thing a total waste of time.)


The whole thing was beyond awful, but it did give us William Shatner covering Motorhead. That's got to be worth something.
   14. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: October 27, 2014 at 08:46 PM (#4828439)
Ox Baker used to get big-time racial heat when Georgia Championship Wrestling would hit our high school gym. He'd commandeer the house mic, look out over the overwhelmingly majority African-American crowd, and bellow stuff like "Big crowd tonight. Welfare checks musta went out this week." "Get out here, Tony Atlas...I gotta bucket of fried chicken!" I know cheap heat was way cheaper 40 years ago...and from every account I've ever heard, Ox was a real sweetheart and a devoutly religious guy outside the ring. But man oh man...he always needed a police escort out of the Buford High School gym.
   15. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 27, 2014 at 09:25 PM (#4828461)
That's gold! I can only imagine the producers took a look at him and put a special mark on his audience card to get him called.


They don't randomly pick audience members. They select a bunch of them before the show and then randomly determine the order they get picked. The contestants don't know they are going to be picked, but the producers do. This is so they can pick some fun ones (like Ox) and also provide a nice spread of the viewing population. It helps them avoid picking an all-male/female/white/black/young/old selection by chance, and guarantees that "fun" contestants make it to the front of the stage. If you aren't enthusiastic when they interview you in line, you aren't going to be on the show.
   16. Man o' Schwar Posted: October 27, 2014 at 09:30 PM (#4828466)
Someone on reddit posted a link to a video of Ox Baker where he apparently turned on his tag team partner in a big match and started heart punching the guy over and over. The crowd got nuts and started throwing things, and then they started rushing the ring. Ox got out of there pretty fast.
   17. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: October 27, 2014 at 09:32 PM (#4828469)
Someone on reddit posted a link to a video of Ox Baker where he apparently turned on his tag team partner in a big match and started heart punching the guy over and over. The crowd got nuts and started throwing things, and then they started rushing the ring. Ox got out of there pretty fast.

Ernie Ladd, who had just been on the business end of those dozen heart punches, got out of there pretty fast, too.
   18. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: October 27, 2014 at 10:57 PM (#4828507)
The whole thing was beyond awful, but it did give us William Shatner covering Motorhead. That's got to be worth something.


Don't sleep on summerfest
   19. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: October 28, 2014 at 12:09 AM (#4828533)
Ditch the Survivor Series name, call it WWE Survival (or something) and lose the Survivor Series-style matches. It takes too many guys you'd rather see in singles matches out of play and, worst of all, it always feels like absolutely nothing is at stake. It's been a rudderless show for years and it doesn't even feel worthy of "Big Four" status anymore.
   20. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 28, 2014 at 08:38 AM (#4828574)
Someone on reddit posted a link to a video of Ox Baker where he apparently turned on his tag team partner in a big match and started heart punching the guy over and over. The crowd got nuts and started throwing things, and then they started rushing the ring. Ox got out of there pretty fast.


"Someone on reddit"? I posted the damn thing right here in #2! Cripes, how many of you pumpkins have me on ignore?
   21. aberg Posted: October 28, 2014 at 12:52 PM (#4828745)
it always feels like absolutely nothing is at stake.


That's the real problem. As soon as there is a reason to have an elimination match, the elimination match will be exciting again.
   22. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 03, 2014 at 11:07 PM (#4834857)
Wow this thread has kinda lost steam. The WWE's booking has been horrendous perhaps thats why. I thought they should've kept the Big Show/Henry team together, put the belts on them, and split them up to feud later
   23. aberg Posted: November 04, 2014 at 11:53 AM (#4835204)
Wow this thread has kinda lost steam. The WWE's booking has been horrendous perhaps thats why. I thought they should've kept the Big Show/Henry team together, put the belts on them, and split them up to feud later


I didn't like that story, but it's like the 5th most important thing on Raw right now. Pretty small potatoes.

I thought the Authority-Orton fall out was executed extremely well last night and the beat down was pretty reminiscent of the Mid-South style we discussed not long ago.
   24. Man o' Schwar Posted: November 04, 2014 at 12:00 PM (#4835211)
Now we have a face Randy Orton, which apparently he doesn't even want to do. Or is it a fake face, only for him to turn back at Survivor Series and help the Authority win? Lord knows what they have up their sleeves at this point.

I wonder if this post-RAW Network-only match is going to become a thing to try to goose subscriptions.
   25. aberg Posted: November 04, 2014 at 12:28 PM (#4835254)
Now we have a face Randy Orton, which apparently he doesn't even want to do. Or is it a fake face, only for him to turn back at Survivor Series and help the Authority win? Lord knows what they have up their sleeves at this point.


I've always thought the really angry anti-hero Orton is the best version of him. He got a great reaction last night. I don't think he turns back quickly. I think it's more likely he stays on his own and gets a shot at Lesnar at some point.

I wonder if this post-RAW Network-only match is going to become a thing to try to goose subscriptions.


Because what everyone wants after 3 hours of wrestling is a fourth hour of the same wrestling.
   26. no STIGGLES...no STIGGLES......you're the STIGGLES Posted: November 05, 2014 at 08:50 PM (#4836641)
darren young on coming out of the closet:
People who are struggling with coming out often ask me for advice, and, in my opinion, the best first step you can take is coming out to those who are closest to you. The most painful experience was hiding my true self from those I loved. I can honestly say that coming out to my inner circle was the best thing I've ever done. I was incredibly fortunate and received nothing but support from them, and my mom is my biggest fan. She's always wearing a Yankees hat with a pin that says "I love my gay son." While not everyone had the same reaction, I've come to grips with that reality. It's OK, because I'm living my life, and that is an amazing feeling.
I feared being alienated when deciding to come out, but instead I felt welcomed. The overwhelming support from WWE, my fellow WWE Superstars and Divas, and my fans has been fantastic. I've been lucky enough to travel the world and use WWE's massive social-media reach to tell my story and connect with my fans. This positive outpouring has eclipsed any negativity, and I only wish I had known that earlier.

Living your life truthfully is such a great feeling, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. If I could go back in time, I would tell myself this: You have more support than you think you do. Being true to yourself is key to reaching your personal potential.


   27. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 05, 2014 at 08:58 PM (#4836643)
Living your life truthfully is such a great feeling, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Being true to yourself is key to reaching your personal potential.

Fantastic advice from Darren Young (real name Fred Rosser). He accidentally outed himself as a preplanned publicity move. His job is pretending to hit people.
   28. The District Attorney Posted: November 05, 2014 at 09:26 PM (#4836660)
I don't disagree that WWE is using it as a way to garner rare positive publicity. Still, it doesn't hurt anybody as far as I can see; it might help someone; and if nothing else, it sure beats the hell out of Kanyon's Celluloid Closet-esque story.

(But man, as a Heathers fan, "I love my gay son" has an unwelcome association.)
   29. aberg Posted: November 06, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4837042)
I'm working on a piece that will be ready in a couple of weeks that led me to about 40 minutes on the phone last night with Nikita Koloff. What an incredibly nice guy.
   30. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 06, 2014 at 11:02 PM (#4837583)
I didn't like that story, but it's like the 5th most important thing on Raw right now. Pretty small potatoes.

I thought the Authority-Orton fall out was executed extremely well last night and the beat down was pretty reminiscent of the Mid-South style we discussed not long ago.


Watching the World Series got me behind on WWE. Looks like the product has improved in the last few RAW and Smackdowns


I'm working on a piece that will be ready in a couple of weeks that led me to about 40 minutes on the phone last night with Nikita Koloff. What an incredibly nice guy.


I look forward to reading this
   31. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 07, 2014 at 01:18 AM (#4837625)
Just when Orton gets more interesting than he has been in years, they write him off so he can make a third-rate movie.

Bo Dallas is also out 6-8 weeks.
   32. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 07, 2014 at 03:49 AM (#4837638)
I'm working on a piece that will be ready in a couple of weeks that led me to about 40 minutes on the phone last night with Nikita Koloff. What an incredibly nice guy.


Everyone in the business who I'd ever heard mentioned him said he was a peach of a guy. I'd never met him but whenever I hear his name I think about how he was known for his total dedication to "kayfabe" during his career, going so far as to bring a phony "interpreter" with him to banks, gyms, or meetings with realtors.
   33. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 11, 2014 at 03:25 PM (#4840532)
There's no way Triple-H leaves his fate up to a team without him on it, right? As it is, I think it's hard to see the Authority story ending here, so they almost have to win. I don't see them having Rusev eat a pin as part of a SS match, even with Cena on the other team. I guess they could DQ him, but that seems pretty cheap for a nominally important match. Orton could make a surprise hometown return to help Cena, but that makes it likely that Team Cena has to win. Maybe this is where the long-rumored Sheamus heel turn comes?

I really don't understand why Mark Henry and Big Show are involved.
   34. aberg Posted: November 12, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4840978)
I find the face team very uninspired and the heel team very sensible. I like the idea of surrounding Rollins with four monsters because it really highlights his uniqueness as a talented technician and athlete. I also like that Rusev is doing something slightly different from what he has done to date and that Harper appears to be getting a very serious spot in his first singles opportunity (I think he has incredible potential- maybe a higher ceiling than Wyatt).

On the other hand, the face team is extremely vanilla. I feel like they need to just throw Kofi Kingston on there to complete the most predictable, bland team they could imagine that will do nothing for anyone involved. Maybe bring John Morrison back from Lucha Underground. He'd fit right in, too.
   35. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 12, 2014 at 12:04 PM (#4841009)
Did not notice there was a new thread. Just finished Survivor Series '07. The Batista-Taker program from '07 has been outstanding. I'm not sure it's over but they've headlined 4 of the 11 PPVs this year and each time they delivered. The Orton-HBK feud is a little disappointing. I expected them to have amazing matches and while the matches have been good, I don't think they've been great. My opinion may also be affected by my knowledge that (I don't think that) HBK ever wins the title during his '02-'10 run other than that first Elimination Chamber match.

Starting to get bored with the current product. I miss Lesnar. I miss Heyman. I have such high hopes for Bray Wyatt but continue to wait for him to get involved in a program that matters.
   36. The District Attorney Posted: November 12, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4841030)
I assume Morrison's time has come and gone, but I feel like they could have had something there. Good-looking, very athletic, and I think he probably could talk but "John Morrison" was just a stupid character. One of a million missed opportunities.
   37. aberg Posted: November 12, 2014 at 12:28 PM (#4841035)
I assume Morrison's time has come and gone, but I feel like they could have had something there. Good-looking, very athletic, and I think he probably could talk but "John Morrison" was just a stupid character. One of a million missed opportunities.


He was on Jericho's podcast recently. Better talker than I expected. On the other hand, he came up with that character, so he gets some blame there. I agree that there was something untapped with him.
   38. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 12, 2014 at 12:36 PM (#4841042)
He was on Jericho's podcast recently

I listened to that. I thought his views on the film industry/his film career were...interesting.
   39. Man o' Schwar Posted: November 12, 2014 at 01:29 PM (#4841073)
I miss Lesnar. I miss Heyman.

This is the problem with putting the belt on someone who only works part time (and why I never thought they'd put him over Cena in the first place). It leaves a big gap in the storytelling, and you end up with the top of the card largely milling around just to kill time.

On the other hand, the face team is extremely vanilla.

Agreed - but who do you slip in there? Ambrose is otherwise occupied. Bryan and Reigns are out. Cesaro isn't really a face, plus he's still being punished for saying what everyone was thinking - even if you put him in the match, he'd just eat the first pin. It would be fun to see them pull up someone from NXT and let him get a surprise pin on someone as a way to elevate them up to the main show, but I can't imagine they'd do it. Hard to believe, but these may be the top 5 faces now (except for Ambrose), which is pretty sad.

Also, I agree with the sentiment that it's hard to see HHH not wrestling here. I really figured he would be on the Authority team, and then, if they were really blowing this off, he'd be the last man standing on that said and take the final pin to put an end to it once and for all. Of course, if they do blow it off, then what? Still no champion on TV, and no Authority story line either, means even more milling around to bide time until the Rumble.
   40. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 12, 2014 at 01:56 PM (#4841093)
I dunno, I think Ryback on the face team is pretty inspired. Two months ago he was in a jobber tag-team and this Monday the whole episode of Raw basically revolved around him.
   41. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 12, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4841196)
It's interesting how the WWE can program fans to believe in Ryback as wrecking machine after several months jobbing.

I'm not a fan of frequent title changes but I'd have rather something like seen Cena lose it to Rollins, who traded it back and forth with Ambrose rather than Lesnar take it and never show up
   42. aberg Posted: November 12, 2014 at 03:51 PM (#4841206)
I'm not a fan of frequent title changes but I'd have rather something like seen Cena lose it to Rollins, who traded it back and forth with Ambrose rather than Lesnar take it and never show up


That was pretty much the one other option. I think I would have enjoyed that, but I'm also in the minority of enjoying everything that happened from Summerslam up to Hell in a Cell with little or no Lesnar.
   43. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 12, 2014 at 05:59 PM (#4841317)
I think they should have been a little more aggressive with the NXT guys. Do people like Zayn and Neville still need to be in the minors when the main roster is having depth issues? Surely with the recent big names joining NXT they can afford to promote more guys?

Ryback does have one of the most believable monster looks that I can remember. He looks like he can wreck you without having to plod around to do so. His resurgence is kind of the mini-version of what Lesnar went through this year after multiple losses during his comeback: as soon as the guy is booked like a monster again, everyone forgets the poorer performance.
   44. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 12, 2014 at 07:41 PM (#4841387)
I have no idea what the plan is for Zayn and Neville. Presumably, Zayn will beat Neville for the NXT championship and Neville will be promoted...But that would just leave Zayn languishing in the minors for at least a little while longer at 30 years old. At least Sami has been on Main Event lately and Tyson Kidd is being pushed.
   45. aberg Posted: November 13, 2014 at 07:11 PM (#4842340)
I'm going to pimp something else I wrote here about Lucha Underground. For better or worse, it looks almost nothing like any other wrestling on TV. So far, I would say it has been for the better.
   46. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 14, 2014 at 07:51 AM (#4842547)
berg, link isn't working.
   47. aberg Posted: November 14, 2014 at 11:20 AM (#4842680)
Here's another shot: link.
   48. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2014 at 07:09 PM (#4845991)
TNA is moving to the Destination America channel, which is in about 50% of homes (Spike TV is in 85%).

Not great, although of course they will at least probably have the advantage of having good ratings by the standards of the channel.
   49. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 19, 2014 at 07:24 PM (#4845999)
So the new SS main event stipulation (Team Cena is fired if they lose) basically removes all drama from the result, right? My hopes are not high for this PPV.
   50. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: November 19, 2014 at 07:37 PM (#4846002)
Well, the drama from how the story plays out, sure, but stipulations don't seem to keep JC down, so why not get fired one more time?
   51. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 19, 2014 at 07:47 PM (#4846004)
I'm currently reading Stan Hansen's autobiography, "The Last Outlaw". Hansen is a very unique figure in modern pro-wrestling as he was an established and successful American star on the territorial circuit who left for Japan and decided to stay there for the bulk of his career. He's one of the key figures in the development of the Japanese "Strong Style" of wrestling, a tough, somewhat violent approach that emphases hard hits and toughness as exemplified by fellow gaijin stars Dr Death Steve Williams, Vader, Terry Gordy, and native Japanese stars Misawa, Kawada, and Kobayashi. Hansen is an iconic character whose career spans the eras of Bruno Sammartino and Dory Funk Jr through the Japanese success of the 1990s and he has many interesting stories and opinions, but this book reenforces the opinion that is co-author Scott Teal is a lousy writer with no sense of narrative or structure. Like his book about Ole Anderson, the Hansen biography is just a barely-connected string of anecdotes with a very loose and inconsistent sense of chronology.

Two out of five stars, would spit tobacco on it.
   52. aberg Posted: November 19, 2014 at 08:51 PM (#4846016)
Stan Hansen is tremendous. That match where he knocked Vader's eye out of his damn head and they wrestled another 30 minutes is outrageous.

Even with the SS stip, I still have a hard time believing this Authority storyline ends without HHH in the ring.
   53. Man o' Schwar Posted: November 19, 2014 at 10:25 PM (#4846050)
I'm actually more interested in this PPV than I think I've been since Wrestlemania. Yes, I think the extra stipulation makes it a foregone conclusion, but they've thrown enough wild cards into the match that how it plays out seems completely up in the air. I would not rule out changes to the team personnel right up to the match, including someone getting knocked out backstage during the show and replaced with a returning favorite.

TNA is moving to the Destination America channel, which is in about 50% of homes (Spike TV is in 85%).

Not great, although of course they will at least probably have the advantage of having good ratings by the standards of the channel.


I had to go looking for it on my dial. Given 100 guesses, I couldn't have named Destination America as a TV channel. It doesn't help that AFAICT it's not available on the HD part of the dial, and the rumored signing of Del Rio is probably not going to be enough to significantly move the dial in the US. No one was tuning in to the WWE shows just to see him, and those shows were easy to find. So while I remain glad that there's an alternative to WWE out there, if only for the mild push that it gives WWE in the direction of trying, this seems more akin to giving a drowning man a leaky air raft than throwing him a lifeline. At some point, that raft is going to sink, and you'll be right back where you were.
   54. aberg Posted: November 20, 2014 at 11:29 AM (#4846269)
I don't think a smaller profile for TNA is such a bad thing. I want them to stay in business, but I don't want them to think of themselves as an alternative to WWE where they hire rejects like Mike Knox and Snitsky for major angles. Perhaps this lower profile and presumably smaller budget will force them to focus on being their own company and being more of an old-school wrestling company.
   55. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 21, 2014 at 09:12 PM (#4847195)
Just finished the '08 Royal Rumble. That was a lot of fun.
   56. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 23, 2014 at 11:00 PM (#4848058)
Wow, they turned Dolph Ziggler into a superhero.

I take it Sting vs HHH is booked for Mania.
   57. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: November 23, 2014 at 11:31 PM (#4848061)
You know you've (over)booked a match effectively if The Big Show turning comes off as a surprise.
   58. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 24, 2014 at 05:43 AM (#4848147)
Speaking of wrestling books, can YR or anyone else name any good ones? The Andre the Giant one is garbage.
   59. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 24, 2014 at 06:24 AM (#4848149)
Tag 4-Way - I'm a Mizdow guy, so I loved the finish with Mizdow getting the pin and Miz first being upset then grabbing both belts. The crowd was also really into the match (as well as most matches tonight, enhancing the product) so that made everything feel better. However, I'm not a big fan of overly choreographed aerial spots that require everyone to (slowly) walk to specific positions and get ready to catch someone. As a result, I find myself hating the part of seemingly every tag team match where both everyone decides to go flying outside of the ring. With 8 men and 1 bull involved, yesterday's version was particularly irksome.

Divas Survivor Series Match - I was shocked they gave this match so much time and shocked that the crowd was as patient with it as they were because it wasn't very good. Considering that Paige's team consisted of Paige and 3 awful workers I thought there was a chance they would have Paige's partners eliminated early then have Paige come back and take the win. Not sure what direction they go with Paige from here. Did anyone else notice Paige wasn't as pale as she usually is?

Bray vs. Dean - I love Bray, I really like Dean, I hated the build for this match, but I thought it was Bray's best match since Last Man Standing with Cena and Dean's best match since the RAW match with Seth that ended with the cinderblock spot. The only downside here was that the schmozz finish was pretty predictable. The clothesline Bray delivered in this match was outstanding.

Adam Rose & Bunny vs. Slater Gator - Awful and stupid.

Nikki vs. AJ - I was actually really looking forward to this one because Nikki has been my favorite Diva, in-ring and on mic, for the past few months. Not sure what the thought was in not allowing them to have a real match, but I'm glad the belt is on Nikki. I'm also assuming Brie is a heel now? Seems like an unsatisfying finish to the twins who hate each other storyline.

Team Cena vs. Team Authority - Match of the year candidate for me. I have little clue what happened in the WWE from No Way Out 2008 through Royal Rumble 2014. Everything I've seen from Dolph Ziggler this year is the only Dolph Ziggler stuff I've ever seen. Perhaps because of that I never understood why people on the Internet loved him so much. That is no longer the case. He's been great the last 4-6 weeks and was amazing last night. Big Show apparently does turns like this all the time, based on what I saw on Twitter, but I was legitimately shocked. The idea of someone on Team Cena turning never occurred to me. The crowd was so great and the match was so hot that Erick Rowan (!!!!) was getting his name chanted. 2 months ago, he was The Other Guy in The Wyatt family and now he's main eventing a PPV and looking like he belongs. Everyone came out of this match looking better...except maybe Mark Henry. Then again, Cena was pinned easily immediately after a WMD, so in a way, Mark Henry is just as tough as John Cena and there's no shame in that.

EDIT: Rowan working on the rubik's cube in the locker room was gold.

EDIT 2: I wasn't a fan of Sting when he was young, so I really hope he isn't on tv too much now that he's old. I texted my buddy before the show last night and told him that if/when Sting interferes, I anticipate it being the beginning of a build towards HHH-Sting at Mania.
   60. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: November 24, 2014 at 07:53 AM (#4848152)
Speaking of wrestling books, can YR or anyone else name any good ones? The Andre the Giant one is garbage.

Any of the books written by Chris Jericho or Mick Foley are well worth reading. Both of those guys are surprisingly engaging writers and their stories come across like actual peeks behind the curtain (as opposed to the officially sanctioned books published by WWF/WWE where guys totally sound like they're working readers). The single best wrestling book I've ever read, though, is Bret Hart's autobiography from a couple of years ago. In it, he does a ton of score-settling and demonstrates the mother of all persecution complexes...but the level of intimate detail he goes into about the business makes it a must-read.
   61. Conor Posted: November 24, 2014 at 08:57 AM (#4848173)
Mick Foley's first book is really awesome.
   62. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 24, 2014 at 10:32 AM (#4848244)
The two wrestling books I've repeatedly heard lauded as excellent are JJ Dillon's and Gary Hart's, both of which are out of print, neither of which I have read. They both cover the period that I find most interesting in pro-wrestling, the 70s and 80s territorial era.

I've had occasion to read several wrestling biographies and other books. I'll summarize a few:

Stan Hansen The Last Outlaw: As mentioned about this wasn't really well-constructed as a book but I appreciated Hansen's candor and honesty in reflecting on his own career and choices. He comes across as a very principled and independent man who nonetheless recognizes his shortcomings. There are some fun stories here I hadn't heard before, like Verge Gange and Hulk Hogan actually getting into a scrap backstage at an AWA event (!!!) and Hogan stuffing Gagne's takedown attempts, which surprises me even if Verne was in his 50s. The best parts about Hansen's book are obviously his stories about working in Japan in the 80s and 90s with all sorts of backstage machinations with New Japan and All-Japan, and his respect for All-Japan owner Giant Baba is a key theme of the book. After finishing the book I went on YouTube and watches a few old Hansen matches and enjoyed them even more than usual, and Hansen is always fun to watch.

Ole Anderson Inside Out: Anderson could have written one of the great historical accounts of the NWA territorial system in the 70s and 80s, but gets so bogged down with bitterness and sniping that he breezes over much of the relevant substance. In fact, what I recall from reading the book is mainly the aspects of it I found nonsensical. There is no reference to the 4 Horsemen, almost certainly the role in his career for which he is best known. There are only two passing references to Arn Anderson, who is well-respected and a good wrestler who owes a good deal of his career success to being allowed the Anderson name. He calls Ric Flair an average worker, which absolutely blows my mind.

On the plus side, it was interesting for me to read about Ole's approach to booking (he was booking two major NWA territories concurrently at one point, and successfully) and the way house shows were set up and run during the territorial era. But any good to come out of this book is buried under a heap of bile, and that's unfortunate.

Eric Bischoff: Controversy Creates Cash. Self-serving crap.

Ric Flair: To Be the Man. Some interesting background on Flair, the man who many consider the greatest champion of his era and arguably the greatest all-around wrestler of all-time. It's been polished to remove any rough edges, as all books under the WWE imprint are, and that's unfortunate because Flair likely has more and better road stories to tell than what was included here. He doesn't shy away from his personal foibles but this is Ric Flair here, he could write a book twice this length and still have material.

The Solie Chronicles. Gordon Solie was probably the most important and influential person in my early wrestling fandom. Solie was the primary announcer for Florida Championship Wrestling and always made a great effort to represent wrestling as a sport with sports-focused commentary and detail, and his serious and measured approach allowed me to take it seriously as well. Sadly this book was written after Solie's death and so the stories are related second-hand. There are some good ones of course, but overall I found the book a bit disappointing with too much focus on Gordon's announcing duties at the various promotions, his alcoholism, and other personal stories, when I was really hoping for more insight from the man who defined the sound of NWA wrestling for two decades.

Is Wrestling Fake: The Bear Facts. Ivan Koloff's book was a surprising great read. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, because Ivan's career spans the biggest promotions from the 60s through the early-90s, but I wasn't expecting to enjoy it as much as I did. Koloff talks about being a reviled heel in the kayfabe era which is always something worth reading in light of today's "it's all just a show" approach. Ivan has some good insights into wrestling psychology that I enjoyed as well. He's seen and done it all, and I'm hoping his upcoming documentary is well-done and does him justice.

Superstar Graham: Tangled Ropes. Mostly self-serving and evasive, and I loved Graham as a kid. He's one of the most influential wrestlers of all-time but his later years devolved into a fairly shameless trek through carny chicanery and doubletalk. As another WWE imprint much of this was likely edited heavily given his well-documented conflicts with the promotion in the early-90s.

Wrestling Babylon. This book, really a compiled series of published articles spanning the 80s through the 2000s, is well-written and has compelling stories about interesting subjects. It starts with the tragedies of the Von Erich family in Dallas and ends with the Chris Benoit murders, and covers lots of ground in between - the Jimmy Snuka murder, the WWE sex scandals, and lots and lots of writing about steroids. If I had to fault the book for anything it would be its WWE-centric focus, but you write about the stories you have access to.
   63. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 24, 2014 at 10:53 AM (#4848262)
Oh yeah, I also want to mention an interesting book written by a longtime friend: Shooters: The Toughest Men in Professional Wrestling. It's a general account of wrestlers with legitimate combat credentials going back to the days of Farmer Burns and George Hackenschmidt, up through Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, and Meng. Snowden is a good writer and did a great deal of research on the wrestlers from the first half of the 20th century, there's really nothing else like this.

On a related note, I'm sorry but I agree with wrestling journalist Dave Meltzer on this one point: yes, every wrestler today says Meng/Haku/Tonga Fifita is the toughest man they ever met, in a whole 'nother level of toughness, blah blah blah, but there's no way he's in any sense "tougher" than Ken Shamrock, Don Frye, Josh Barnett, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, etc., in the sense that he would be expected to win a fight. About the best thing you could say in Meng's defense is that he's probably more willing to initiate foul tactics (eye gouging, biting, etc) but if he did so against a trainer shootfighter like then men above they'd probably escalate and kill him. It didn't save noted dirty fighter Jon Hess from Vitor Belfort.
   64. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: November 24, 2014 at 11:26 AM (#4848290)
Wow...I remember a Jonathan Snowden who was a prolific poster to several USENET wrestling groups in the late 90s/early aughts. If it's the same guy, that's pretty cool.
   65. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 24, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4848334)
Yep, same guy.
   66. aberg Posted: November 24, 2014 at 02:49 PM (#4848501)
Nice, just bought that book.

The thing that impressed me about the main event of Survivor Series (that I wrote about in my review) is that they balanced 3 things in the main even that are really hard to balance- good, compelling wrestling, storyline payoff, and enough questions to make me excited to see what comes next. I kept thinking of War Games 92 throuh the night.
   67. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 24, 2014 at 03:01 PM (#4848514)
I kept thinking of War Games 92 throuh the night.


Funny you mention that, I just started re-watching Bill Watts-era WCW this last weekend and WrestleWar 92 was on my list of PPVs. It was a good show but not as much fun as Beach Blast 92. The main even was amazing of course but the undercard was pretty "meh". Knowing that the "Super Invader" was just Hercules Hernandez under a mask made his clumsy attempts at martial arts even funnier.
   68. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 24, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4848538)
Finished No Way Out '08.

HHH going over Jeff Hardy to face Randy Orton at WM 24 is just bad business. Jeff (by my ear/eye) is the most popular wrestler on the roster right now and you have a shot at giving him a Wrestlemania Moment. Why not go with that? Do we really need to see ANOTHER HHH-Orton match? And Orton over Cena was a schmozzy finish so I'm assuming it's probably HHH-Orton-Cena Triple Threat...which still wouldn't be as great as giving Jeff Hardy his moment.

Speaking of which, Jeff Hardy singles wrestler has thus far been a shockingly great thing. As a kid, I loved the Hardyz and Edge & Christian, but it always seemed to me that their singles potential was Edge-->Christian-->Jeff-->Matt. Instead, from watching the PPVs I have it as Christian-->Jeff-->Matt-->Edge.

Shocked Khali is still getting main event level matches, but at least the crowd chants "You can't wrestle" every single time he's in.

Batista is awesome. Who knew!? Batista-Taker is the best feud I've seen either guy in and they always bring out the best in each other. Easily one of the best feuds I've witnessed in watching all this stuff. '08 PPVs are off to a good start.
   69. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: November 24, 2014 at 03:28 PM (#4848550)
Shawn Michaels, in a DX promo, once called Christian "the ugliest pretty boy in the business." Matt Hardy gives him a run for his money. Maybe they should've teamed up.
   70. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 24, 2014 at 03:32 PM (#4848561)
The Wrestlecrap people have put out two books: "Wrestlecrap: The Very Worst of Pro Wrestling" and "The Death of WCW." I haven't read either, but presumably they're in the snarky vein of the entertaining website.
   71. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: November 24, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4848586)
Buy used copies of the Wrestlecrap books. Big print and two inches of blank space at the top and bottom of pages. New ones will set you back 40 bucks with shipping and I promise you'll go cover-to-cover with both books the day they arrive. The WCW book is the Bizarro Planet version of Bischoff's book. There's still a great WCW book out there waiting to be written.
   72. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 24, 2014 at 04:06 PM (#4848603)
The WrestleCrap books are not worth reading, IMO. Well, I guess they're worth reading for free.
   73. aberg Posted: November 24, 2014 at 04:12 PM (#4848606)
I read that Death of WCW book. It was entertainig but not very well written.
   74. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: November 24, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4848645)
And the other Wrestlecrap book just details every stupid thing you've seen dozens of times on YouTube with light "What the hell were they thinking?" commentary. It doesn't even have very many pictures.
   75. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 24, 2014 at 05:25 PM (#4848666)
Awesome, thanks so much guys, especially YR.

David Shoemaker's The Squared Circle is also very good, but its basically a collection of his Dead Wrestler of the Week columns on Deadspin.
   76. RJ in TO Posted: November 24, 2014 at 05:37 PM (#4848677)
David Shoemaker's The Squared Circle is also very good, but its basically a collection of his Dead Wrestler of the Week columns on Deadspin.


I read it last month. It was alright, in that it did a decent job with the pre-WWE eras, but so much of the stuff in it has been covered by so many people in so many places online, so there was very, very little that was new information.
   77. aberg Posted: November 24, 2014 at 05:38 PM (#4848679)
David Shoemaker's The Squared Circle is also very good, but its basically a collection of his Dead Wrestler of the Week columns on Deadspin.


I have several other wrestling books at home that were enjoyable. I'll look them up and post more info later.
   78. no STIGGLES...no STIGGLES......you're the STIGGLES Posted: November 24, 2014 at 06:36 PM (#4848707)
Speaking of which, Jeff Hardy singles wrestler has thus far been a shockingly great thing. As a kid, I loved the Hardyz and Edge & Christian, but it always seemed to me that their singles potential was Edge-->Christian-->Jeff-->Matt. Instead, from watching the PPVs I have it as Christian-->Jeff-->Matt-->Edge.
edge and hardy get into a great feud about a year (maybe 2) from what you're watching. when they have their ladder match, you need to start watching smackdown. forget about CM punk breaking the 4th wall; the smackdown main event promos from that ladder match to that year's royal rumble are the best mic work of the last 10 years.


Batista is awesome. Who knew!? Batista-Taker is the best feud I've seen either guy in and they always bring out the best in each other. Easily one of the best feuds I've witnessed in watching all this stuff. '08 PPVs are off to a good start.
i won't feel too bad about spoiling this since i know you're only watching the PPVs, but by the time he left, batista was damn good on the mic. most people didn't give him credit for it, but this was outstanding work. #kissingbabies #huggingfatgirls

   79. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: November 25, 2014 at 12:31 AM (#4848916)
Wow...wow...WOW. I don't know if RAW has ever dropped the ball after a hot PPV as egregiously as it did tonight. That was dire.
   80. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 25, 2014 at 01:30 AM (#4848932)
Just watched RAW, guess berg's website name isn't so out of date after all.
   81. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: November 25, 2014 at 10:52 AM (#4849166)
edge and hardy get into a great feud about a year (maybe 2) from what you're watching. when they have their ladder match, you need to start watching smackdown. forget about CM punk breaking the 4th wall; the smackdown main event promos from that ladder match to that year's royal rumble are the best mic work of the last 10 years.


Although I've sadly lurked at (and often contributed to, whether watching or not) wrestling boards since ~'99, I have no memory of anything between 2006 - mid-2011, except (i) Randy Orton punting; (ii) some guy (just looked it up - Homicide) unable to escape from a cage during the return of the Monday Night Wars on 1/4/10; and (iii) Punk's supposedly incredible feud with Hardy. My dream for the network (which I realize was always a dream, though now after a year I realize will never happen) was to have a category devoted to feuds wherein all promos/segments/matches of a feud would be included, so you could watch it seamlessly. Punk/Hardy would be the first I'd watch in such a setup. I hadn't gotten around to piecing together my own viewing of that feud until this weekend, when I started with their match at The Bash 2009. Good stuff so far.

My Network viewing is very random and so when I caught a recent reference to a great Mysterio performance in an elimination chamber in 2009, I flipped it on (it's No Way Out '09). He's legit incredible in that match. Highly recommended. Bonus: you'll learn that someone named Mike Knox (i) exists and (ii) was once in a ppv match for a world title.
   82. aberg Posted: November 25, 2014 at 12:46 PM (#4849332)
Mike Knox has been a fairly prominent mid-card guy in TNA for the last couple of years. Still dumb. I hate when TNA thinks its place in the world is to hire failed WWE wrestlers (particularly big guys who can barely wrestle) and give them a gimmick that centers on hating WWE. TNA could fill the void of a more adult-oriented (not raunchy, but competitive and snug). I hope that going to a smaller network makes it clear that their role is not to snipe at WWE but to create a different sort of product.

I was at the Night of Champions PPV that helped to initiate the Hardy-Punk feud. The way it went from Punk cashing in MITB as a face to slooooooowwly turning on Hardy was brilliant and really helped launch the WWE part of his career. I have mixed feelings about Hardy due to his unreliability but he has been nothing but solid the last couple of years.
   83. Gch exhales the vast drunken folly of Epicurus Posted: November 27, 2014 at 02:14 PM (#4850427)
   84. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 27, 2014 at 03:33 PM (#4850454)
Haven't had time to listen to the podcast but read the main points in the article. Punk is less than complimentary of Ryback and it sounds like "The Big Guy" is a sloppy worker. I remember hearing Jack Swagger is also a sloppy worker--Bad News Barrett's unnecessary injury backs this up
   85. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 27, 2014 at 03:43 PM (#4850457)
I love the idea of putting the belts on Miz/Mizdow. It's odd to have a booed and cheered heel teaming, I hope they keep this team together for a while

Is Wrestling Fake: The Bear Facts. Ivan Koloff's book was a surprising great read. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, because Ivan's career spans the biggest promotions from the 60s through the early-90s, but I wasn't expecting to enjoy it as much as I did. Koloff talks about being a reviled heel in the kayfabe era which is always something worth reading in light of today's "it's all just a show" approach. Ivan has some good insights into wrestling psychology that I enjoyed as well. He's seen and done it all, and I'm hoping his upcoming documentary is well-done and does him justice.


I got Ivan Koloff's autograph in the mid-90's, for some reason he was signing autographs at a table at our Wal-Mart. He wasn't rude or anything but he was more interested in goofing around with a little boy who was there with his dad than talking about wrestling with me. I was a teenager at the time so there is a possibilty he may have suspected I would sarcastic. Not sure if I mentioned anything about him dethroning Sammartino
   86. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 28, 2014 at 01:35 PM (#4850673)
Watching Wrestlemania 24. Spent the first 5 minutes of Big Show-Mayweather thinking this is stupidest thing ever...but the match really picked up towards the end. If I'm Show, not sure I would have felt safe/comfortable doing a lot of these spots with Mayweather.

Really interested to see berg's (or anyone else) thoughts on the Punk podcast. I've heard all the raves about Punk and watched his pipebomb interview countless times and he is part of the reason I decided to get back into WWE...but I started watching again with the 2014 Royal Rumble. While I did go back and watch his match with The Rock from RR '13 and have seen his PPV matches from '06-WM '08, he hasn't really been given much of an opportunity yet for me to judge him.
   87. aberg Posted: December 01, 2014 at 01:00 PM (#4851768)
The guys who are known as overly stiff tend to be really big guys who are also at least fairly athletic- Ryback, Swagger, Goldberg, Sid, Vader, Bam Bam. I suppose it is not surprising that it would hurt more when those guys hit you because they happen to be really powerful. I would imagine that the smaller guys do less damage and the less mobile giants just do not do as many things that can hurt.

I will have a post up about Punk later in the day.
   88. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 01, 2014 at 01:04 PM (#4851772)
There's a difference between "stiff" and sloppy.
   89. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: December 01, 2014 at 03:55 PM (#4852038)
andrewberg, I read your CM Punk post. Good stuff. Unfortunately, my sabbatical from watching wrestling spanned the whole Punk era. I did read the entire transcript of his Colt Cabana appearance and I was glad to see, other than the McMahon's, HHH, and Ryback, he stayed away from ripping his fellow wrestlers.
   90. aberg Posted: December 01, 2014 at 04:07 PM (#4852055)
other than the McMahon's, HHH, and Ryback, he stayed away from ripping his fellow wrestlers.


Yes, that's true. I think he was basically saying that Ryback was too rough and green. That can be solved and I think he'd probably say as much if he and Ryback somehow worked together down the road and Ryback got better. It might not be clear from the transcript, but he was probably hardest of all on Jericho without saying his name much. He basically said that Jericho is not his friend and tried to manipulate him into giving exclusive content for his podcast. There were a few other times when I inferred that he was angry with Jericho over other little things. That made me sad because they're my two favorite wrestlers of my adult life.
   91. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 01, 2014 at 04:58 PM (#4852156)
That's interesting, I remember hearing that the Punk and Jericho once came up with a storyline that would end with Jericho tattooing his name on Punk. They were very excited to do this, but Vince vetoed that because it could draw blood. I assumed they were friends based on that alone.
   92. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 03, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4853938)
The card for TLC is looking pretty good so far. Cena/Rollins, Ambrose/Wyatt, and Ziggler/Harper should all be good matches, and the tag match will likely be solid as well.
   93. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: December 03, 2014 at 06:12 PM (#4853979)
I just watched a promo package where JBL knocks John Cena out, props him up against a car and then gets in a second car and crashes into Cena's body/the 1st car. I assume JBL was tried for murder following this?
   94. Gch exhales the vast drunken folly of Epicurus Posted: December 06, 2014 at 11:39 PM (#4855879)
CM Punk's signed with UFC; internet's exploding as I type.
   95. no STIGGLES...no STIGGLES......you're the STIGGLES Posted: December 07, 2014 at 01:23 AM (#4855919)
CM Punk's signed with UFC; internet's exploding as I type.
he'd be a great announcer for them.
   96. aberg Posted: December 08, 2014 at 01:42 PM (#4856706)
I don't know if anyone watched ROH Final Battle last night. It was a really good show. The main event was a weapons match between Jay Briscoe and Adam Cole. It was a little gory but it didn't distract from the overall match and those two work very well together. It's really startling to watch a 3-hour wrestling show when I am so accustomed to WWE, which puts on about 1 hour of wrestling over three hours.
   97. smileyy Posted: December 08, 2014 at 02:36 PM (#4856805)
TNA thinks its place in the world is to hire failed WWE wrestlers (particularly big guys who can barely wrestle) and give them a gimmick that centers on hating WWE. TNA could fill the void of a more adult-oriented (not raunchy, but competitive and snug). I hope that going to a smaller network makes it clear that their role is not to snipe at WWE but to create a different sort of product.


So, sort of like the NWA/WCW as a contrast to the WWF of the 80s? But they had so much success when they hired former WWE wrestlers and made an angle about how bad the WWE is...
   98. aberg Posted: December 08, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4856864)
So, sort of like the NWA/WCW as a contrast to the WWF of the 80s?


Supposedly, the best financial year WCW ever had was 1992 when Bill Watts was running it. The stars at the time were guys like Ron Simmons, Vader, Sting, Steve Williams, young Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, etc. They had a good relationship with Japanese promotions that allowed for a healthy talent exchange (can do that today), and the sprinkled in former WWF- Rick Rude, Ricky Steamboat, Jake Roberts- guys who could help develop their younger talent (can also do that today).
   99. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 08, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4856875)
Supposedly, the best financial year WCW ever had was 1992 when Bill Watts was running it.


That was a great year for WCW. One of the things I absolutely have to give Watts credit for is his insistence on clean finishes in the majority of matches, even to the point of allowing heels like Vader to cleanly and fairly pin top faces Sting and Ron Simmons in the middle of the ring. Having so many matches end with chicanery devalues the product and to his credit Watts addressed this correctly. Nobody should be above doing a clean job in the middle of the ring.

On the downside I also thought Watts' edict banning top rope maneuvers took the wind out of WCW's newly-emerging lightheavyweight division before it even really got started. Also removing the mats from ringside was just a dumb move.

Still, overall I loved the Watts era of WCW and it gave me two of my favorite title runs as a wrestling fan - Vader as world champion, and the Miracle Violence Connection of Williams & Gordy as tag champs.
   100. aberg Posted: December 08, 2014 at 04:02 PM (#4856908)

On the downside I also thought Watts' edict banning top rope maneuvers took the wind out of WCW's newly-emerging lightheavyweight division before it even really got started. Also removing the mats from ringside was just a dumb move.


At least that gave us the persistently funny gag of Steve Corino thinking every over-the-top is a DQ in every ROH match.
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