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Monday, October 27, 2014

OT: Wrestling Thread November 2014

Given that the old wrestling thread got shut down, here is a new one that shamelessly links to my Hell in a Cell review!

aberg Posted: October 27, 2014 at 01:47 PM | 1590 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: wrestling

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   1201. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: November 24, 2015 at 06:35 AM (#5101163)
Reigns has slowly gained more support as he has worked a lot of good matches.

I like Roman Reigns the wrestler. I think he's consistently delivered above average to good matches better than almost anyone on the roster at this point. However, he's just so damn awful on the mic and the WWE places so much emphasis on the top babyface talking that I don't know if he will ever be ready for that spot.

I'm up to TLC 2012 in my old PPV rewatch and it's hilarious how pasty and flabby Del Rio looked 3 year ago compared to how tanned and ripped he is now.

EDIT: Also, '12 Ryback was kind of fun. And Roman Reigns with only a small shoulder tattoo looks naked.
   1202. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: November 24, 2015 at 09:46 AM (#5101231)
Based on the last couple nights it seems we are now building towards HHH-Roman instead of HHH-Seth for one of the Mania main events. I get that but I don't feel great about it. I'd rather keep HHH away from a one on one loss until a potential "Hey, can't believe you never came to visit me during rehab" returning white hot baby face Seth vs HHH Summerslam match.
   1203. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: November 30, 2015 at 11:25 PM (#5104426)
Charlotte's heel turn makes her a million times more interesting. The problem is that the Women's division is now all heel as far as interesting performers. They need to build Becky Lynch up on the face side and call up Bayley soon it would seem.

   1204. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 03, 2015 at 06:20 PM (#5106778)
I think they're turning Charlotte heel and Sasha face for the eventual Mania match. Becky will just be the next stopgap to get there.
   1205. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: December 03, 2015 at 08:15 PM (#5106802)
[1204] That sucks. I like both as heels, but I know WWE is not a fan of face-face and heel-heel.
   1206. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 04, 2015 at 09:26 AM (#5106954)
It's the only reason I can think of for them - A. not really using Sasha B. still protecting her (I think she doesn't have a pinfall or submission loss yet) and C. making the "we want Sasha" chants a thing. They have to be saving her for something. The women's match at Wrestemania is a big, big moment for the "Divas Revolution", it's the biggest audience for WWE to prove they are serious.

Whether Sasha can work as a face remains to be seen. She started as a face in NXT and the in-ring stuff worked pretty well. The character work was bland, but she was still super young.
   1207. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 06, 2015 at 02:15 PM (#5108506)
I think Sasha can work as a face. She was always a nuanced heel in NXT. She cried genuine tears when she won the belt and she hugged Bayley in front of everyone when she lost - both without breaking character.
   1208. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 09, 2015 at 01:34 PM (#5110988)
Mick Foley:
WWE is at a real crossroads. Allow me to paraphrase Albert Einstein, who said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results". Wrestling historians can argue about when the ‪#‎AttitudeEra‬ in wrestling officially began. But for me, it will always be at a meeting called by Mr McMahon in the Spring of 1997, where he admitted that what had worked for them for so long in the past (I interpreted that to mean one-dimensional characters that tended to be job-related) was no longer working, and that if they were going to survive, the wrestlers themselves were going to have to step up, and help create those dimensions that would establish the emotional bond between the wrestlers and the fans - part of the lifeblood of professional wrestling.

Today's WWE Superstars (I'm including the women here, since the term "Diva" had its time, and that time is done) are at a distinct disadvantage in some ways. They can't flip birds, and use the colorful language. They can't bleed - even when the situation seems ripe for it. Man, Roman Reigns life would be so much easier if he could survive vicious assaults - and be left bloodied, but unbowed - the way guys in my era did. But all the blood, the language and the violence paled in comparison to the real secret weapon of the Attitude Era; FREEDOM! The freedom to CREATE..the freedom to TRY... the freedom to FAIL - the idea that going down swinging (I hope I'm not losing you guys in all the non-baseball playing countries) was almost as important as hitting the ball out of the park - as long as you took your best swings. There's a difference between playing to win, and playing not to lose: one breeds confidence, the other breeds fear.It's the difference between cutting the type of promos Stone Cold Steve Austin and Dwayne The Rock Johnson gave, and the cookie-cutter approach all too often employed these days by WWE creative. One style allowed for creativity and emotion. The other calls for memorization and recitation.

I hope I don't sound like I'm picking on WWE. There is a big part of me that loves this company, and always will. Why else would I be up at 4:15 am, writing things that are likely to banish me deeper and deeper into the WWE doghouse? One of my favorite wrestlers proposed a storyline that would allow me a four of five week storyline that would allow me to dig in deep, and swing for the fences - and in the process, maybe advance a few of the super-talented but underutilized athletes on the roster. I would love to do it....but I doubt it's going to happen. After all, I might want to do something crazy like go out there without a script, and try to create some real emotion - in other words, the type of thing that saved WWE in the late 90's.

The talent pool has never been deeper. But the creative flow is stagnant...and it's been stinking for a while. I quoted Einstein to begin this thing. Let me conclude with the immortal words of Owen Heart: "Enough's enough: it's time for a change!"


And Foley, a week or so before that:
I'm going to quote an article from July, 2014, called "The Sad Case Of Zack Ryder" in which I wrote: "Eventually, people get tired of finding out that the WWE Superstars they have supported with their cheers, their signs, their purchases, their follows, and their likes aren't real Superstars - and, little by little, those fans lose interest in WWE, find other interests, and become former WWE fans."

I am one of those people on the verge of becoming a former WWE fan. I'm tired of being told through Raw, Smackdown and PPV's that WWE superstars I have rooted for - from Ziggler to Cesaro to Kevin Owens - aren't really top stars, no matter how strongly crowd reaction seems to disagree. I'm tired of NXT stars getting their big "break" in WWE, just to be treated like jokes.

Six months ago, my son and I traveled 12 hours – from Eastern Tennessee to Orlando, Florida to watch Sasha Banks wrestle Becky Lynch at ‪#‎NXTTakeover‬.- one of the greatest women's matches of all time. Last night, in what I believe was their first singles match on ‪#‎RAW‬ Sasha and Becky were given four minutes. At a time when WWE desperately needs to make new stars – when they need to give wrestlers with talent the opportunity to break through – they gave Sasha and Becky four minutes. I turned the channel, and watched a pretty good football game instead. I think I can get used to watching football games on Monday night again.
   1209. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2015 at 01:46 PM (#5111006)
Lucha Underground returns on 27 January, in case you'd like to watch something a little more daring an innovative than the WWE's canned vanilla pudding of a product.
   1210. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 13, 2015 at 05:04 PM (#5113632)
Just a head's up, Becky and Sasha are doing the pre-show match for TLC today.
   1211. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 13, 2015 at 08:37 PM (#5113694)
The tag team division pretty much always has solid PPV matches. Tonight's was really good.
   1212. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 13, 2015 at 10:03 PM (#5113715)
So the solution for the tepid reaction to Charlotte is to make her act even more like her dad? Ugh.
   1213. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 13, 2015 at 11:00 PM (#5113723)
Did Roman just get over?
   1214. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: December 13, 2015 at 11:24 PM (#5113728)
Now...just keep him away from a mic tomorrow.
   1215. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: December 14, 2015 at 12:19 AM (#5113735)
Yes Roman is more over now but Triple H can't be the sacrificial lamb to get him over every week
Owens/Ambrose was the singles fight of the night, tag match was best overall
   1216. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 14, 2015 at 09:02 AM (#5113782)
Reigns will be even more over when the audience isn't chanting for NXT, Daniel Bryan and John Cena during his match.
   1217. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 14, 2015 at 09:54 AM (#5113828)
Well, that's the point. The crowd went from booing Roman and chanting "We want Cena" to chanting "Thank you, Roman". So, at least with that crowd he got over. The crowd even seemed ready for him to win after the superman punch off the ladder spot, but the match aftermath totally put an exclamation point on it. Chances are they will ruin it with a promo segment tonight, but if last night signaled an actual change in how they use him, maybe it will stick.
   1218. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: December 14, 2015 at 08:09 PM (#5114329)
And of course he opens the show in the ring with a mic.
   1219. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 14, 2015 at 09:33 PM (#5114375)
Re: #1217--
Yeah, but they also cheered Reigns on last week's Raw, after Sheamus did his interminable segment and Reigns popped up to surprise punch him. That obviously didn't take.

But this is the ride they're on, and they're not getting off until next summer at the earliest. They're all in. They'll probably have Vince's grandkids debut next week to throw Legos at Roman. So we'll find out soon enough whether this three-year plan can develop a new Batista, or if they've just made a full commitment to laboriously pushing and pushing and pushing another Sheamus or Alberto Del Rio or Mark Henry up the slope of Mount Whatever.
   1220. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: December 14, 2015 at 11:14 PM (#5114426)
They got Roman over in Philly. That is ####### impressive. Now, time to see how far Roman can take this thing.
   1221. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 14, 2015 at 11:32 PM (#5114433)
Yep, this is the same crowd of mutants that booed him out of the building at the Royal Rumble. Vince got a hero's welcome tonight, and they still popped for him taking out Vince.
   1222. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 15, 2015 at 09:11 AM (#5114517)
The most innovative, original wrestling show on TV just released the trailer for their new season. If you want to see what all the other wrestling promotions will be trying to emulate for the next decade, check it out. This is the ECW for the 21st century.
   1223. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 15, 2015 at 10:01 AM (#5114539)
Why didn't you say something earlier?
   1224. aberg Posted: December 15, 2015 at 11:40 AM (#5114602)
The most innovative, original wrestling show on TV just released the trailer for their new season. If you want to see what all the other wrestling promotions will be trying to emulate for the next decade, check it out. This is the ECW for the 21st century.


There was lots of stuff about ECW that sucked, even in the mid 90s. There's nothing about LU that sucks. I recently changed my TV service and made damn sure I still have El Rey.
   1225. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 15, 2015 at 11:58 AM (#5114618)
There was lots of stuff about ECW that sucked, even in the mid 90s. There's nothing about LU that sucks.


Sexy Star's booking in Season 1 was an abomination. She is the worst worker on the roster and get booked cleanly over much better, and more over male luchadores, including PENTAGON ####### JUNIOR.

Having said that...wow, that short scene of her in the trailer...chills.
   1226. smileyy Posted: December 15, 2015 at 12:50 PM (#5114663)
I'm really curious to see how well the "season story arc" concept takes hold in wrestling.
   1227. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 15, 2015 at 12:51 PM (#5114664)
There was lots of stuff about ECW that sucked,


Looking at you Justin Credible.
   1228. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 15, 2015 at 01:24 PM (#5114690)
I'm really curious to see how well the "season story arc" concept takes hold in wrestling.


From a storytelling/angle standpoint I think it's great, it forces the writers/bookers to pace their angles and have definitive payoffs at various points, with a clear finish line. Of course what makes it work for LU is their production values and the quality of the writers, just like good episodic TV and bad episodic TV can follow the same format.

From a wrestler point of view I think everyone agrees, at least theoretically, that an off-season to allow the workers to rest and heal is something the business could really use to reduce the number of injuries and painkiller abuse associated with the rigors of performing at modern levels. Of course in practice all this means is that you've opened up a long block of time to work independent shows, so you have the risk of your top talent getting injured working at some circus tent in Tijuana.
   1229. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 15, 2015 at 03:03 PM (#5114799)
Vince was way more entertaining last night than he was in the Survivor Series build-up last year
   1230. smileyy Posted: December 15, 2015 at 03:41 PM (#5114857)
[1228] Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Presumables, at some point you're successful enough to pay your top talent to not get hurt elsewhere?
   1231. aberg Posted: December 15, 2015 at 03:56 PM (#5114877)
Vince was way more entertaining last night than he was in the Survivor Series build-up last year


He really played the hits last night. Strut to the ring, "you're fired," testicle references, "in this very ring," interfering in a match, manipulating a referee, overselling a babyface finisher. That's giving Roman the star treatment.
   1232. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 15, 2015 at 06:11 PM (#5115028)
Raw did huge numbers last night(relatively speaking at least. Up to 3.88M from 3.05M last week. Numbers went up for hour 3 as well, which almost never happens. An actual WHC match in doubt + Vince clearly seems to be the main reason, but Hour 1 did big numbers too, so I guess people were pretty intrigued by the end of TLC as well.
   1233. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 16, 2015 at 08:41 AM (#5115230)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TVRUnyvAs8

Let him go off script.
   1234. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 16, 2015 at 09:31 AM (#5115251)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TVRUnyvAs8

Let him go off script.


Fantastic.
   1235. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 16, 2015 at 05:03 PM (#5115675)
Both Balor and Joe's bext NXT match.
   1236. aberg Posted: December 17, 2015 at 06:26 PM (#5116487)
I thought Asuka and Emma was the best match on the show. Emma is much more technically sound than I usually hear.
   1237. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: December 18, 2015 at 07:29 AM (#5116636)
I thought Asuka and Emma was the best match on the show. Emma is much more technically sound than I usually hear.

Busy week for me so this is the only match I've had the chance to watch, it was really, really good. I actually liked main roster Emma, but NXT Emma is awesome and Asuka is just incredible.
   1238. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 22, 2015 at 07:22 PM (#5118909)
Since I don't think anything in the next week will change my mind:

Matches of the Year

1. Sasha/Bayley II NXT Women's Title
2. Cena/Lesnar/Rollins WWEWHC
3. Sasha/Bayley I NXT Women's Title
4. Owens/Cena I
5. Sasha/Becky NXT Title
HM - Owens/Zayn I NXT Title - Rewatched this recently and the wrestling is below several other matches but the lead-up and storytelling in this one is nearly unmatched.

Wrestlers of the Year
1. Sasha Banks
2. Kevin Owens
3. John Cena
4. Seth Rollins
5. Brock Lesnar
HM - The New Day - Not too many great matches but they do everything else well.

It's all WWE, I don't watch enough of the other promotions and I know it.
   1239. Chokeland Bill Posted: December 22, 2015 at 10:01 PM (#5118977)
Really good IC Triple Threat on Smackdown tonight
   1240. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 23, 2015 at 01:49 AM (#5119044)
Strictly a WWE guy(been meaning to force myself to watch NXT regularly, but haven't done so yet)

1. Cena/Rollins/Lesnar
2. Reigns/Lesnar(+ Rollins)
3. Cena/Owens I
4. Cena/Cesaro I
5. Cena/Rollins I

1. Cena
2. Reigns
3. Lesnar
4. Rollins
5. Owens
   1241. aberg Posted: December 23, 2015 at 11:51 AM (#5119224)
I will be posting a really detailed top 10 (with extensive honorable mention) over the next couple of weeks and I'll post it here. The other guy who writes with me on our site is doing a MOTY thing, but my personal short list would include RR main event, Owens-Cena I, Sasha-Bayley I, Cena-Neville, Cena-Zayn, Mil Muertes-Fenix Grave Consequences, Prince Puma-Mil Muertes title match, Prince Puma-Johnny Mundo Ironman match, Jay Lethal-Roddy Strong I, and Tanahashi-Okada from WrestleKingdom (if you include Japan).
   1242. Conor Posted: December 23, 2015 at 02:08 PM (#5119339)
Very happy to say I was at 3 of my 5 favorite matches of the year (Rumble 3 way, Sasha-Bayley at Summerslam, and Cena-Rollins the next night.) Live I really loved the Cena-Rollins match. Would also probably throw in the first Owens-Cena match.

For me I think Cena has to be the wrestler of the year.
   1243. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 28, 2015 at 08:10 PM (#5121413)
10 minutes in and Brooklyn can go #### themselves.
   1244. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: December 28, 2015 at 08:17 PM (#5121415)
This is one of the worst opening segments in the history of ever. Why do I watch this ####?
   1245. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 04, 2016 at 08:52 PM (#5125637)
Rumor is that WWE might be raiding several guys from New Japan, including AJ Styles and Shinsuke Nakamura.
   1246. Man o' Schwar Posted: January 04, 2016 at 09:32 PM (#5125667)
Rumor is that WWE might be raiding several guys from New Japan, including AJ Styles and Shinsuke Nakamura.

I look forward to their wacky East-West tag team feuding with the New Day.

Seems like it would be hard to screw up a roster with a potential lineup like Styles, Nakamura, Cesaro, Rollins, Ambrose, Balor, Zayn, Owens, Itami, Harper, and Joe. Maybe they'll resurrect the brand split, send all of these guys to Smackdown, and just make it 2 hours of kickass wrestling every Thursday. Leave RAW to Sheamus, Reigns, Kane, New Day, the Usos, Big Show, the Miz, the Authority, and the Divas.
   1247. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 06, 2016 at 09:36 PM (#5127854)
Cena is injured and will miss Wrestlemania.
   1248. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 06, 2016 at 11:26 PM (#5127964)
Hate to see Cena injured. This Wrestlemania could go horribly wrong or be an awesome era change.
   1249. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: January 06, 2016 at 11:44 PM (#5127977)
Dr. James Andrews of all folks will be performing Cena's surgery.
   1250. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 07, 2016 at 08:36 AM (#5128044)
It looked to me like they might have put Cena against either Reigns or Taker, now they are really hard up on who to have those guys face. Just an unreal amount of injuries right now.

Of course, with Cena there is always the possibility of him being ready anyway.
   1251. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 07, 2016 at 04:27 PM (#5128613)
Does New Japan's network thing have archives?
   1252. don't blame me, i voted for STIGGLES Posted: January 07, 2016 at 09:26 PM (#5128828)
It looked to me like they might have put Cena against either Reigns or Taker, now they are really hard up on who to have those guys face. Just an unreal amount of injuries right now.

if it was me; i know, i know; i'd throw a ton of money at cm punk and have him win the rumble as a surprise entrant (bonus points if he's the 2nd entrant, with colt cabana as the 1st), main event wrestlemania against HHH (bonus points if he breaks HHH's nose before hitting the GTS) and drop the title to someone like ambrose (or rollins or owens or ryback or cesaro) the next night on raw (bonus points if he gets pinned after a pepsi plunge).

   1253. vagab0nd is still a champion Posted: January 07, 2016 at 10:29 PM (#5128864)
Does New Japan's network thing have archives?


Are you looking for recent stuff or further back?
   1254. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 08, 2016 at 08:44 PM (#5129749)
Pretty much the Okada/Tanahashi series and then I'll probably check out some Nakamura stuff as well.
   1255. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 24, 2016 at 08:33 PM (#5141487)
Ambrose v Owens was incredible.
   1256. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 24, 2016 at 08:34 PM (#5141489)
Probably Ambrose's best singles match.
   1257. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 24, 2016 at 08:42 PM (#5141497)
Easily Ambrose's best singles match for me. I was just talking to my buddies before the match about how I was excited in theory...but worried because almost all of Ambrose's big one on one matches have disappointed me.
   1258. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 24, 2016 at 09:13 PM (#5141511)
New Day-Usos was a lot of fun.

Kalisto-Del Rio was okay. A few botches in the second half of the match didn't help.
   1259. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 24, 2016 at 09:45 PM (#5141535)
And the Boss is back
   1260. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 24, 2016 at 09:53 PM (#5141545)
The Hour has come for some Hungry new blood to get a Huge victory
   1261. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 24, 2016 at 09:54 PM (#5141547)
The Sasha return!!!!!!!!!!!!
   1262. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 24, 2016 at 10:17 PM (#5141558)
R-Truth is the greatest.
   1263. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 24, 2016 at 11:00 PM (#5141577)
This was a well-booked, but very predictable Royal Rumble
   1264. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 24, 2016 at 11:03 PM (#5141579)
I love HHH. Really enjoyed that PPV except for the part where Roman napped for 70% of the main event but got put over as heroic by the announcers. I just ####### hate Roman Reigns so much. Anyone but you, Roman.
   1265. Mark Edward Posted: January 24, 2016 at 11:03 PM (#5141580)
Aside from the Reigns & HHH stuff that was a pretty cool Rumble.
   1266. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 24, 2016 at 11:18 PM (#5141583)
I haven't been watching much lately, but clearly Roman's brief period of being over is... over

The difference between this year and last year is that WWE picked the story they wanted, then actually picked a smart way to get there. The medical spot with Roman was dumb, but the Wyatt stuff worked great, AJ got eliminated by a guy the smarks wouldn't boo, the everyone-knew-it-was-coming-because-of-course Zayn/Owens bit, having Ambrose be runner-up instead of Reigns (less chance of HHH getting cheered), etc. I would have had Sheamus help eliminate Ambrose as well (more boos and sets up a feud), but I guess you need HHH to get some legitimacy since he really isn't a credible threat to Roman in kayfabe. Still, really awkward situation for WWE with HHH getting the face reaction.

So Mania so far looks like

HHH-Roman
Lesnar-Wyatts
Charlotte-Sasha-(Becky)
New Day vs ....
Taker vs ....

Last Man Standing usually ends a feud but there is still heat between Ambrose and Owens, and no obvious follow ups. I thought they might setup Ambrose-Sheamus, but... They could do Zayn-Owens, but Sami is supposedly getting groomed for the next NXT show so I doubt he gets a Mania match. So many guys need matches that at this point I kind of expect there to be some kind of tag match with the League of Nations against some mixed group of faces. No one was really set up for Taker tonight.
   1267. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: January 24, 2016 at 11:20 PM (#5141584)
Agreed the Rumble was pretty fun (especially compared to the last few)...until Lesnar's bs elimination. WM card looks like ruff stuff.
   1268. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 24, 2016 at 11:33 PM (#5141586)
I haven't been watching much lately, but clearly Roman's brief period of being over is... over

PPV was in NXT country, there was no way in hell he was going to be over there. I think Roman still is over to the kids/women.

HHH-Roman
Lesnar-Wyatts
Charlotte-Sasha-(Becky)
New Day vs ....
Taker vs ....


HHH-Roman
Lesnar-Bray
Charlotte-Sasha
New Day-TBD
AJ-Owens
Taker-TBD

Is a Mania I can get behind in theory. The biggest problem would be that the finishes for HHH-Roman, Bray-Lesnar, and Charlotte-Sasha are too obvious.
   1269. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: January 24, 2016 at 11:55 PM (#5141590)
Chekov's Tables: When two tables are set up on top of each other in Act One, someone must go through them in Act Three.
   1270. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: January 24, 2016 at 11:57 PM (#5141591)
An AJ/Owens/Sami Triple Threat would be killer.
   1271. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 24, 2016 at 11:59 PM (#5141592)
Is a Mania I can get behind in theory. The biggest problem would be that the finishes for HHH-Roman, Bray-Lesnar, and Charlotte-Sasha are too obvious.


HHH-Roman is obvious, but the other two have outs. They could do a handicap match with the Wyatts and actually beat Lesnar without making him look weak. I think the women might get a triple threat where Becky wins by beating Charlotte, ending that story the right way and leaving Becky to feud with Sasha.

I forgot that they actually have a bit of build for Ambrose-Jericho (the Night of Champions match and Ambrose eliminated Jericho tonight), so that will probably happen. AJ-Owens is a good use of those two guys.
   1272. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: January 25, 2016 at 12:32 AM (#5141603)
Surely Sami is going to do something at Wrestlemania, right?
   1273. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 25, 2016 at 06:42 AM (#5141629)
Sami is in the middle of a #1 contender story in NXT and the rumor a month or so ago is that he faces Balor for the title at the NXT event the night before Wrestlemania. I don't think they'll have him at both levels. I think AJ is going to be getting all of their "new guy" focus for now.

It doesn't look like they'll do it, but I hope they have AJ dump the Styles Clash. A move that doesn't look like it hurts but has actually caused serious injuries is basically the antithesis of pro wrestling.
   1274. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 26, 2016 at 08:22 AM (#5142644)
The main event of Fast Lane is Ambrose-Reigns-Lesnar for the right to face HHH. Putting Reigns and Lesnar in the same ring completely voids the reason they had Reigns do the medical spot in the Rumble, and puts Reigns against two more popular faces. In Ambrose's home state. Really, really stupid. Clearly the Wyatts will take out Lesnar and Reigns will pin Ambrose to massive booing. The smart thing to do would be to have Ambrose win, but I don't know what you would do with Roman afterwards.

   1275. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: January 26, 2016 at 08:39 AM (#5142652)
So is HHH just going to squat on the title for the next two months and change? Bleargh. As much grief as The Rock gets for part-timing, even he defended the title the next month at Elimination Chamber after winning it at the Rumble during his last part-time run in '13.
   1276. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 26, 2016 at 09:42 AM (#5142700)
So is HHH just going to squat on the title for the next two months and change? Bleargh. As much grief as The Rock gets for part-timing, even he defended the title the next month at Elimination Chamber after winning it at the Rumble during his last part-time run in '13.

Brock squatted on the title during his run as PT champ. I don't have an issue with that. I'm a fan of the idea that the champ is above the fray and can/should wait until his contenders are sorted through before defending.
   1277. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: January 26, 2016 at 09:47 AM (#5142709)
Putting Reigns and Lesnar in the same ring completely voids the reason they had Reigns do the medical spot in the Rumble, and puts Reigns against two more popular faces. In Ambrose's home state. Really, really stupid. Clearly the Wyatts will take out Lesnar and Reigns will pin Ambrose to massive booing. The smart thing to do would be to have Ambrose win, but I don't know what you would do with Roman afterwards.

Hadn't thought about this. Man...that seems like a serious lack of foresight on the part of the WWE.
   1278. SouthSideRyan Posted: January 26, 2016 at 10:21 AM (#5142781)
There's really no reason for Reigns to be booed anymore. Those people remind me of those telling Cena he can't wrestle.
   1279. SouthSideRyan Posted: January 26, 2016 at 10:26 AM (#5142787)
I'm curious to see if Styles's pops carry over outside of heavy smark towns. It was a great idea to bring him in in NXT/TNA's home, and I'm thinking watching him get those crowd reactions is going to give him a lot of goodwill with crowds who otherwise wouldn't have a clue who he was. The Clash is tough because crowds were popping huge for it, and they could easily build that to the point that they erupt when he finally hits it. That said I agree it looks kinda stupid, and it can easily go wrong.
   1280. Mark Edward Posted: January 26, 2016 at 11:08 AM (#5142849)
There's really no reason for Reigns to be booed anymore. Those people remind me of those telling Cena he can't wrestle.


To be fair the way he was booked in the Rumble gave no reason for the fans to cheer him.
   1281. SouthSideRyan Posted: January 26, 2016 at 11:13 AM (#5142860)
I don't think the fans could foresee that when they booed him out of the building when his music hit.
   1282. smileyy Posted: January 26, 2016 at 02:51 PM (#5143119)
It doesn't look like they'll do it, but I hope they have AJ dump the Styles Clash.


One of the things that makes a good wrestling move is the illusion of high power/impact, while actually not being all that impactful.

The Styles Clash looks like a combination of "I'm going to make it look like I'm breaking your neck with your bodyweight" and "I actually might break your neck", which is the antithesis of those two ideals.
   1283. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 26, 2016 at 03:51 PM (#5143202)
Another problem with the Fastlane main event - The Wyatts hate all three guys, but no one more than Roman Reigns. Why would they take out Lesnar and leave Reigns to get the title shot?

Ambrose is probably getting the spots Cena would have w/o the injury. Put Cena in the final two of the Rumble and the finish is less predictable. Put him in the Triple Threat and then you have the Wyatts take out Lesnar, and maybe Taker interferes as well to set up a match with Cena. I don't think Cena and Reigns should face each other before getting a big 1-on-1, but that's the way they probably would have gone.
   1284. don't blame me, i voted for STIGGLES Posted: January 26, 2016 at 04:29 PM (#5143247)
The main event of Fast Lane is Ambrose-Reigns-Lesnar for the right to face HHH. Putting Reigns and Lesnar in the same ring completely voids the reason they had Reigns do the medical spot in the Rumble, and puts Reigns against two more popular faces. In Ambrose's home state. Really, really stupid. Clearly the Wyatts will take out Lesnar and Reigns will pin Ambrose to massive booing. The smart thing to do would be to have Ambrose win, but I don't know what you would do with Roman afterwards.

personally, i'd have taker lay out all 3, setting up a HHH/taker main event for wrestlemania. let taker win the title and send everyone home happy, then pull an edge the next night on raw.
   1285. SouthSideRyan Posted: January 26, 2016 at 04:43 PM (#5143255)
That's putting a lot of faith in HHH to put him/Taker on last. He didn't disappoint in '14 and was perfectly cromulent against Sting, but I just don't know about a Taker match.
   1286. don't blame me, i voted for STIGGLES Posted: January 26, 2016 at 04:59 PM (#5143271)
That's putting a lot of faith in HHH to put him/Taker on last. He didn't disappoint in '14 and was perfectly cromulent against Sting, but I just don't know about a Taker match.
even better, overbook the whole thing. bring out shawn michaels and kane, rock and mick foley, austin and sting, mankind, jericho, dude love. set it up as 20 minutes of insanity and nostalgia until taker is the last one standing.

if taker retires the next night, you don't need to set him up as a viable champion, so for this one match, they can forget the reality era angle and play into the camp.
   1287. Man o' Schwar Posted: January 26, 2016 at 07:02 PM (#5143351)
if taker retires the next night, you don't need to set him up as a viable champion, so for this one match, they can forget the reality era angle and play into the camp.

I love this idea, which means it will never happen. Put on a bunch of kick-ass wrestling matches down the card, and top it off with pure spectacle guaranteed to make the crowd go home happy.

They have an opportunity now to pull back on Reigns and try to rehabilitate his character. Throwing him right back into the WM main event is not going to accomplish anything. No one wanted him to win last year, and no one will want him to win this year.

If they really wanted to do HHH/Reigns at Wrestlemania, they should have just let Ambrose win the title. Reigns could have helped Ambrose win (setting up the HHH-Reigns feud), and the pop for Ambrose winning would have been astronomical. He doesn't have to be a long-term champion, but the WWE could do with a couple of months of having someone crowd-pleasing as the champion again.
   1288. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 27, 2016 at 02:22 PM (#5143996)
That's putting a lot of faith in HHH to put him/Taker on last. He didn't disappoint in '14 and was perfectly cromulent against Sting, but I just don't know about a Taker match.

even better, overbook the whole thing. bring out shawn michaels and kane, rock and mick foley, austin and sting, mankind, jericho, dude love. set it up as 20 minutes of insanity and nostalgia until taker is the last one standing.

if taker retires the next night, you don't need to set him up as a viable champion, so for this one match, they can forget the reality era angle and play into the camp.


Do you want me to mark out? Because that's how I'd mark out.

(But don't include Jericho/Sting)
   1289. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 27, 2016 at 02:25 PM (#5144003)
Lucha Underground's second season begins tonight. You should watch it!
   1290. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 27, 2016 at 09:04 PM (#5144348)
Nakamura's first match will be against Sami Zayn at NXT Dallas. Jeeeeeeez that's good.

Other matches

- Finn Balor vs. Samoa Joe (Men's championship)
- Bayley vs. Asuka (Women's championship)
- Dash & Dawson vs. American Alpha (Tag team championship)
- Austin Aries vs. Baron Corbin

That card is amazing, but it also heavily implies Sami, Bayley, and Finn are probably all getting moved up soon after. Those all feel like "last match" types, except for the championship rematches.
   1291. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 27, 2016 at 09:18 PM (#5144353)
On a related note, HHH is going to be walking out as the top babyface at Mania 32.
   1292. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 28, 2016 at 09:54 AM (#5144508)
Well if you didn't catch the debut of the new Lucha Underground season last night...your loss.
   1293. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: January 31, 2016 at 01:39 PM (#5146557)
It will be interesting to see how the WWE handles Styles, Guns & Gallows, & Balor. I could see the Bullet/Balor Club getting over very quickly. The WWE lacks a strong faction. The New Day are awesome but they're more of a tag team than a faction. The Authority is really the McMahons & Triple H vs. Reigns. Does anyone really care about the horribly named League of Nations? Barrett just seems to round it out so that there is four but he rarely appears and has lost a step since his 2014 injuries. Barrett can handle the mic but is rarely given much time.
   1294. Chokeland Bill Posted: February 02, 2016 at 05:36 PM (#5148257)
Ambrose had been slumping since the Rollins program last summer but he's had a pretty great couple of weeks. This promo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWX6EkFvx1g - especially once it comes around to Lesnar, is really great. Probably his best promo since the early days of the Shield breakup.
   1295. aberg Posted: February 02, 2016 at 05:54 PM (#5148265)
My bookmark for this thread mysteriously disappeared, so I was glad to see it back in hot topics so I could stop by to say Cero Miedo.
   1296. SouthSideRyan Posted: February 02, 2016 at 10:03 PM (#5148382)
League of Nations was in enough trouble from the word go, and then every single one of them has dealt with injuries. Only Rusev is currently healthy.
   1297. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 03, 2016 at 04:50 AM (#5148493)
My bookmark for this thread mysteriously disappeared, so I was glad to see it back in hot topics so I could stop by to say Cero Miedo.


Poor Pentagon, he was having such a nice run, but then he had to go stick his nose where it didn't belong and now Mil Muertes will make him pay. Pentagon's fat, drugged master Hampiro is the lucky one, he'll be going back to the loony bin afterwards. But Pentagon is going straight to the grave.
   1298. NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!) Posted: February 08, 2016 at 01:12 PM (#5151947)
Bryan just announced his retirement via Twitter and I'm honestly emotional at work. Figured it was coming but didn't want to believe it.
   1299. aberg Posted: February 08, 2016 at 01:15 PM (#5151950)
I'm going to Raw tonight. I was afraid this was going to happen. Crushing.
   1300. aberg Posted: February 08, 2016 at 01:21 PM (#5151958)
Hoping it's a work.
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