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Monday, October 27, 2014

OT: Wrestling Thread November 2014

Given that the old wrestling thread got shut down, here is a new one that shamelessly links to my Hell in a Cell review!

aberg Posted: October 27, 2014 at 01:47 PM | 2252 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: wrestling

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   2101. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 16, 2017 at 07:04 PM (#5577703)
flip
   2102. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 19, 2017 at 08:32 AM (#5578466)
Even when NXT looks like the less impressive show going in, it always knocks it out of the park. Great show.
   2103. aberg Posted: November 20, 2017 at 12:24 PM (#5578779)
I enjoyed Survivor Series quite a bit for a show with basically no storyline supporting it. New Day-Shield was a good, hot opener and a matchup I enjoyed more than I expected to. Brock-AJ was a great example of how good Brock can look when he's motivated and in with the right guy. The both worked their asses off and it mostly looked great. The main event elimination match was mostly good, but I felt like the finish was odd and confusing. Couldn't HHH have just won the match and then turned on Kurt? What did the in-match swerve accomplish? It was also kind of weird that the last four guys were all old guys, except Braun, who didn't factor in the finish.

I think it was pretty clear from last night that Brock, Braun, and AJ are the three most over guys in the company (not counting semi-retired guys). Shield, Miz, New Day, KO are a level beneath them, and Joe, Balor, Nakamura, Orton, Usos, and probably a few others a tier below that. The goal should be to feature those top guys and keep them hot and to see if there is anyone from the lower levels they can get to level-up.
   2104. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 20, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5578796)
I honestly expected a lot more from Shield / New Day. New Day has been having great matches lately and Shield always did, so I expected something epic. What we got was not as good as New Day's matches against the Usos.

AJ/Brock was basically perfect except for a brief stretch where they seemed to not be on the same page.

NXT wins again.
   2105. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 20, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5578808)
AJ/Brock was fantastic even though I knew the final result because they HAD to have a 3-3 tie going into the final match.

I'd be perfectly fine if AJ/Brock go again in the near future.

That main event finish was terrible. If the crowd is standing around not sure of what is happening (or why), that's not how you end the match.
I was hoping the KO/Zayn interference was going to be the reason for RAW winning but they made probably the weakest interference I've ever seen.
They double-teamed Shane and then got run off 10 seconds later when he got his hands on a chair? Sad.

   2106. aberg Posted: November 20, 2017 at 01:04 PM (#5578812)
I honestly expected a lot more from Shield / New Day. New Day has been having great matches lately and Shield always did, so I expected something epic. What we got was not as good as New Day's matches against the Usos.


That's fair. I'd also add that the Usos are awesome and pretty much always deliver on PPV. The list of tag teams that are better in the ring is very short. I think I enjoyed the "feel" of this match more than the actual competition, but that was pretty much the point of this entire show.

AJ/Brock was basically perfect except for a brief stretch where they seemed to not be on the same page.


Agreed, and Brock is so unique that even his mistakes look cool. That spot in the corner where he didn't sell/counter the tornado DDT properly and basically just did a flatliner was so much better than your garden variety botch. And that made up about 5% of the match, so I almost feel bad fixating on it.

One little thing I liked from the main event was how much HHH and the newer WWE guys (Roode, Balor, Nakamura) clearly enjoyed being in the ring with each other. It's one thing for those guys to like being with HHH given his accomplishments and stature, but it's cool that he likes it as much as he does, too.

They're clearly going somewhere with some combination of HHH/Braun/Kurt/Jordan/Cena. I assume Shane peels off to deal with KO rather than staying engaged with HHH/Kurt. Lots of moving pieces, but the broad strokes of Mania are starting to becomes visible.
   2107. rconn23 Posted: November 20, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5578965)
AJ Styles should be the champion heading into Mania. The Jinder experiment is hopefully over. But who do you have heated up to face him on the Smackdown side? It should be Nakamura but they've made him look like just another guy.

They've done Owens/Styles. Maybe Orton? But ... they'll probably give the belt back to Jinder and have him face Cena at Mania. That, with ANOTHER Reigns/Lesnar match with ANOTHER Reigns coronation would make a lackluster Mania card, IMO.
   2108. aberg Posted: November 20, 2017 at 04:57 PM (#5578976)
I remember hearing after Mania last year that the plan was to get to another Reigns/Lesnar match and do Styles/Nakamura on the SD side to balance it out for the sub-groups of the fan base. While Nakamura has cooled down since Summerslam, there's plenty of time to get him heated back up before Mania if that's still the plan.

If I had to guess, I think the top of the Mania card will look something like this:

1. Lesnar vs. Reigns UHC
2. Styles vs. Nakmura WHC
3. HHH vs. Angle
4. Shane vs. Owens
5. Singles match for Cena
6. Singles match for Strowman
   2109. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 20, 2017 at 06:22 PM (#5579059)
I think Jinder is winning the title back tomorrow and will hold it for Cena at Mania.

Roman/Brock is certain
AJ/Shinsuke is probably happening but not for the belt
HHH/Angle is probably happening. HHH/Braun seems to be in the works as well, so maybe one of those matches happens at Rumble.

Four Horsewomen vs Four Horsewomen is happening and will probably be a heavily promoted match due to Rousey's involvement

Asuka vs Alexa will probably happen. I could see them doing a Women's Rumble and have Asuka win it to set up Mania.
   2110. aberg Posted: November 20, 2017 at 07:08 PM (#5579079)
I think Jinder is winning the title back tomorrow and will hold it for Cena at Mania.


There are people who hate Jinder a lot more than I do, but I have to say that this seems so stupid. Crowds just tune him out. The shows had notably worse attendance with him as champion. The PPVs were markedly worse. They couldn't even sell tickets for that India tour with him as the headliner.
   2111. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 21, 2017 at 03:32 PM (#5579642)
I don't read the rumors so Paige's return was an unexpected & pleasant surprise. Its interesting who the WWE kept from Tough Enough and who they did not
   2112. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 21, 2017 at 05:55 PM (#5579815)
Mandy Rose hasn't been used on NXT TV much, but from house show accounts I've seen she is a surprisingly good worker with a lot of potential.

Velveteen Dream is also from the last TE batch, and seems like a future top guy considering how good he is already at 22. Match of the Night on a Takeover show is no easy accomplishment.

   2113. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:48 PM (#5579872)
Three more NXT women got call-ups on Smackdown. I think they are probably padding the roster for a Women's Rumble.
   2114. Chokeland Bill Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:23 PM (#5579878)
Suddenly Mahal's rematch is not tonight but instead at the next PPV. That sounds to me like AJ's performance and reception might have changed Vince's plans.
   2115. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: December 06, 2017 at 07:38 PM (#5587736)
Based on my recollections of Tough Enough, Sonya Deville (Daria) was overly confident and shocked when she got eliminated relatively early.

Velveteen Dream (Patrick) seemed talented but was hella-obnoxious, he called out another competitor in front of everyone for not knowing wrestling history but it backfired on him. He reminded me of if the Brian Fellow character from Saturday Night Live tried to be a wrestler. I don't watch NXT regularly but I need to check out his progress

Mandy Rose seemed the most like who the WWE would pick so I'm not surprised she made it. I remember she accused Sara lee of being a "ring rat"--not sure if that was true, gossip, or kayfabe. Hogan was a judge and got replaced by the Miz who double crossed Paige and saved Mandy (which was no suprise to me, Mandy reminds me of his wife Maryse). Now paige and mandy are in a gimmick together

It's funny because the fans chose Sara Lee & Josh Brendl who are no longer with the WWE & also liked Z who seemed like he could've been in a quick one off gimmick with the wyatt family lol. Goes to show you that when you let the Humanoids decide they won't always pick who you want but looks like the WWE picked up who they had in mind in the long run (Mandy, Daria, and Patrick )
   2116. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: January 03, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5599985)
I was excited to see Balor reunited with the underutilized Gallows & Anderson
I guess we'll see a few NXT stars and some used in the Mae Young classic for the women's royal rumble
   2117. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 05, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5601561)
Various Wrestle Kingdom thoughts:

1. Almost certainly Jericho's best match of the decade. More and more I think the biggest difference in match quality between NJPW and WWE comes from the house style rather than the workers involved.

2. Okada/Naito wasn't one of the greatest matches of all time, and thus was maybe a disappointment. It was probably still the best match of the night.

3. I really liked the Okada video for his entrance. Just a simple thing that made him feel like a really big deal.

4. All that said, there might not be a better thing in wrestling than the Tokyo Dome crowd singing the chorus for Minoru Suzuki's theme.
   2118. aberg Posted: January 11, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5604934)
2. Okada/Naito wasn't one of the greatest matches of all time, and thus was maybe a disappointment. It was probably still the best match of the night.


I'll admit that Okada's matches are almost always my favorite. Just something about his style that fits my tastes and his great finishes. I agree that it was the best of the night. Oddly, Meltzer had it tied for 4th best behind a fairly pedestrian Suzuki-Goto match in the middle of the card.

Jericho and Omega told a great story with lots of theatrics. I think the 5* rating Meltzer gave that was a little bit of a make-good since he never gave Jericho that rating in his prime. I don't think any serious wrestling fan would say that was the best match of his career, but I was entertained, so who cares.

It's going to be fun to see what they do with Kitamura in these upcoming singles matches. Very rare for a guy to come straight from the Dojo into big event singles matches.
   2119. rconn23 Posted: January 11, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5604951)
The Jericho/Michaels ladder match from (No Mercy?) 2008 was the best Jericho match and I think, the best one-on-one ladder match in WWE history. The Michaels/Razor match from Mania gets the hype because it was one of the first on a grand stage, but the Jericho match was superior and had a great ending.
   2120. aberg Posted: January 11, 2018 at 06:49 PM (#5605050)
The Jericho/Michaels ladder match from (No Mercy?) 2008 was the best Jericho match and I think, the best one-on-one ladder match in WWE history. The Michaels/Razor match from Mania gets the hype because it was one of the first on a grand stage, but the Jericho match was superior and had a great ending.


+1

That run was the best of Jericho's career and that match was the crown jewel. This is coming from someone who has Jericho on his mount rushmore of all-time personal favorites.
   2121. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 17, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5608271)
Forbes: WWE's Roman Reigns Linked To $10 Million Steroid Ring:
Roman Reigns has been named as an alleged client of jailed steroid distributor Robert Rodriguez, whose Miami-based Wellness Fitness Nutrition LLC (WFN) was raided by the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) last February as part of a yearlong investigation. ...According to the United States Attorney's Office, WFN's client list included "at least 50 customers in the Eastern District of New York" in a massive ring that made at least $10 million in the distribution of illicit anabolic steroids.

...In June 2016, Reigns was suspended for 30 days over a wellness violation, but his suspension was later linked to Adderall, which is used to treat ADHD but is banned in all major sporting leagues.

...WWE's handling of the Signature Pharmacy scandal in 2007 may or may not bode well for Roman Reigns, who is the reigning Intercontinental champion and has long been rumored to be main-eventing WrestleMania 34 in April.

WWE acted swiftly as the Signature Pharmacy scandal went national, suspending Charlie Haas, Edge, Gregory Helmes, John Morrison, William Regal, Mr. Kennedy, Umaga, Funaki and Chavo Guerrero, as well as Booker T, who denied the allegations and quit soon after being notified of a 60-day suspension for a second offense.

Here's where it gets interesting in terms of Roman Reigns, unquestionably WWE's top star. An ESPN report linked top star Batista to the Signature Pharmacy doping ring, a report he vehemently denied in an official statement on his website. Batista went on to insist he was being tested regularly by WWE and was in full compliance with the WWE wellness program.
Batista's protest proved successful as he avoided suspension.

Orton was one of a few WWE Superstars who also received a stay of execution as WWE noted he was already punished for this offense in the past. Should there be legs to the accusations being leveled against Reigns, it's hard to imagine WWE using a similar excuse for Reigns' suspension in 2016, as it was linked to Adderall.

Still, it's no secret that WWE, like most organizations, seems to carry a different set of rules and standards for its biggest stars. The fact that heads rolled in the wake of the Signature Pharmacy scandal should concern Reigns as the WFN story continues to pick up steam. But the fact that the vast majority of punished WWE Superstars in the Signature Pharmacy scandal were not perennial world champions could be an indication that Reigns' road to WrestleMania will not be obstructed.

Batista and Orton, whom the promotion was building around at the time, conveniently avoided the wrath of WWE. Although Edge — an 11-time world champion and the face of SmackDown in 2007 — was "suspended," he was already out of action because of a pectoral injury. It's fair to question if he, too, would have avoided discipline if he had been an active performer.

In 2013, WWE introduced a redemption program that allowed Superstars with two violations to have one of the violations deleted provided they remained clean for 18 months. Many refer to the policy as the "Randy Orton rule" because the program seemed to be fine-tuned for Orton's situation as a WWE Superstar with two wellness violations to his name.
   2122. Man o' Schwar Posted: January 17, 2018 at 07:30 PM (#5608437)
They'll never suspend Reigns leading up to Wrestlemania. They've been building to him beating Brock Lesnar for over a year. They can't skip it now and keep it going for another year. They have to cut Lesnar loose and get the title back on TV regularly.

I'm sure he'll deny it, and WWE will say they're investigating, and then everyone will hope that time passes and this just fades from the headlines.
   2123. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: January 17, 2018 at 07:38 PM (#5608441)
The initial case was from 2016, the clip that started the story first made the rounds on Saturday. Nobody else named is paying any attention. They'll just ignore the thing altogether unless more evidence shows up. This is why WWE has a testing program, so they can ignore accusations that don't come with proof.

Edit: only the wrestling fan community is giving this any play, and I think anyone but Reigns it would be the same in wrestling fandom.
   2124. Man o' Schwar Posted: January 23, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5611721)
Anyone watch RAW 25 last night? It started well, and then seemed to completely fall apart.

Apparently the people who paid $400 for their seats in the Manhattan Center are talking about suing to get their money back.
   2125. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 23, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5611876)
Enzo Amore fired by WWE, after rape charges are filed.
   2126. aberg Posted: January 24, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5612817)
I thought Raw 25 was a big letdown in terms of progressing the current stories or promoting the full-time wrestlers. It had some pretty decent stuff built around the old guys, which will probably make the show a little more re-watchable down the road. On the other hand, part of the goal of having that balloon audience is to give them reason to want to tune back in next week. The only really good element featuring current guys was Miz-Roman, and Roman is at least partially responsible for that audience eroding in the first place. Featuring him- even in a good light- probably won't reenergize the fans.
   2127. SouthSideRyan Posted: January 24, 2018 at 06:54 PM (#5612863)
Caveat Emptor to the dorks who paid $400 so they could cosplay in the front row. I was shocked at the numbers Raw 25 got, and they held the audience pretty well. The one mistake I think they made was not hyping the Rumble match enough to get some lapsed fans to give the Network a shot. Something as simple as 20 second old Rumble highlights as bumpers in or out of commercials could've done the trick.
   2128. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 27, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5614530)
The Gargano/Almas match was insane.
   2129. Nero Wolfe, Indeed Posted: January 27, 2018 at 11:30 PM (#5614538)
I was listening to the Jim Cornette podcast and he ripped it, saying it was all people coming out and waving and very little actual wrestling.
   2130. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 28, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5614557)
Yeah but that’s what he says about the WWE product in general.
   2131. Nero Wolfe, Indeed Posted: January 28, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5614674)
Yeah but that’s what he says about the WWE product in general.


Hard to argue with him on that. I remember watching hour-long shows in which there would be 3-4 matches each. It feels like they need twice as much time to fit in that much wrestling on TV nowadays.
   2132. MikeinMI Posted: January 28, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5614688)
My fantasy book for tonight is that Cena and Reigns are the only two left after 29 are in then Punk comes out and wins. Or Punks music starts and Miz comes out at any time in the match.
   2133. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 28, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5614783)
Hey, WWE did a good main roster PPV with smart booking decisions for the Rumble winners!

Who knows what's up with Rousey. I think they should do Rousey/Charlotte and have Sasha take the Raw title at the Chamber PPV and face Asuka. Then you have the mainstream match and the workrate match, just like we're getting with the men (Roman/Brock and AJ/Nakamura). Too early for Asuka/Ronda, which is where the streak inevitably ends. Do that at Summerslam or Survivor Series when you know a little more about what you have with Ronda.

NXT still wins the weekend.
   2134. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 29, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5614917)
I thought the Heath Slater bit during the Rumble was great. I'm a sucker for running gags, and everyone beating him down as they came down the ramp was hilarious.

So is Seamus now the co-holder for shortest Rumble appearance at 00:01?
   2135. Man o' Schwar Posted: February 26, 2018 at 04:04 PM (#5630732)
Thoughts about Elimination Chamber? I thought the women's chamber match was surprisingly good, with a minimum of everyone just sitting around like you saw at the Women's Rumble.

The men's match was a foregone conclusion, which kind of deflated the whole thing. It was only a matter of how Roman would win, not whether he would win, and he won in the most Roman way possible - by defeating the man who had defeated everyone else and had already kicked out of about a dozen finishers (and a couple of super finishers). Now he can beat Brock at WM, and then start the road to erasing CM Punk's 450+ day streak with the title. That takes us to about Survivor Series 2019 before it's likely he'll lose again.

I'm holding out a secret hope that the post-match shenanigans will lead to a triple-threat match at WM rather than just Roman and Brock (not that I think Strowman would win, just that it would be nice to have him be a part of it). I don't know what you do with everyone else from the match. They've got something with Elias, though they need to capitalize on it quick before the crowds start to turn. Finn, Cena, Rollins (especially) all deserved better than what they got in the match.

The Rousey thing was a mess until it wasn't, though it's amazing that Steph still gets to slap someone with no repercussions. Ronda should have grabbed her and (not really) snapped her arm in half right there, not just watched her walk out of the ring.

Not the worst PPV ever, but it's tough to be great when the main event finish has been telegraphed for the better part of a year.

ETA: The wild card in this is the steroid story with Roman that's gurgling in the background. I imagine Vince will find a way to sweep it under the rug, but if he can't then things get interesting again.
   2136. SouthSideRyan Posted: February 26, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5630787)
Nothing on TV telegraphed Reigns/Lesnar II(Though I’m excited for it since the first version was amazing). If you let Meltzer ruin it for you that’s on you.

And lol at pinning those hopes on some random dudes steroid accusations
   2137. SouthSideRyan Posted: February 26, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5630788)
But yes if people keep swearing that Reigns will break Punks “record” it super seriously will.
   2138. Chokeland Bill Posted: February 26, 2018 at 05:25 PM (#5630790)
I only watched the last half of both chamber matches. The women's match at least seemed logically booked if your goal is Alexa/Nia. The men's match was a big example of the worst aspects of Vince booking.

A couple of really bad moments that result from planning a match around the outcome and spots rather than actually telling a story:

1. Finn Balor goes on a rampage taking everyone out, then hits Roman with his finishing sequence, which has successfully pinned him before. Braun Strowman, rather than letting his most dangerous opponent get pinned, hits his move on Finn and pins him. Then, instead of immediately going after Roman, waits for Finn to be let out and the two remaining opponents to recover. It can't be pure sportsmanship, seeing as he attacked Finn from behind.

2. Roman hits Braun with a Samoan drop outside the ring, where no pinfalls count. Instead of laying in this relatively safe spot to recover, Braun rolls into the ring, allowing Seth to hit a frog splash.

Both Chamber matches also had sequences where one partner betrayed the other too early. At least in the women's match they could explain it with Sasha's poor 1-on-1 record against Bayley, so maybe she felt she needed a surprise attack. I'm pretty sure Seth leads the h2h against Roman and just pinned him on Monday, so why not wait until taking out Strowman? It's dumb to make your babyfaces look like idiots.

At least with Roman/Brock the match will probably be good. AJ/Shinsuke should be good. Charlotte/Asuka could go either way, it depends on which version of Charlotte shows up.

Taker/Cena will probably suck. Cena really has never recovered from his time off last spring.

Alexa/Nia is going to suck so bad. They are basically the worst possible opponents for each other. Two heels, Alexa has crappy offense, and Alexa can't bump. Maybe they save the match by making it a four-way, but I doubt it.

Strowman/Miz is a laughable match. Does anyone want to see Strowman as a midcard champion? He should be Universal champ or go to Smackdown and go after the WWE belt.

Rousey's first match is likely a mixed tag where Kurt and HHH will do the majority of the work. It remains to be seen how she works out. She doesn't seem ready for WWE style promos, so I think most of her feuds will be Steph siccing various people on her. Once it gets to actual wrestling, I can't imagine Nia is a good opponent for her. Rousey shouldn't be selling for a monster and Nia shouldn't be getting physically outmatched. Alexa is more likely to kill Rousey's momentum than help it.

The rest of the mania card is a pretty big mystery, which is rare for this time of year. There are a lot of big names w/o matches. I guess Orton/Roode/maybe Jinder for the US title? KO/Sami break up already? Bayley/Sasha go one-on-one and/or do the remaining women all get dumped in a battle royal like the leftover men? Usos vs Bludgeon Brothers? Does anything come of this Shane/Bryan angle?
   2139. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 26, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5630796)
Why the negativity? A person who's literally spent his entire life in the wrestling industry has called Roman Reigns "the best performer, in-ring, in the world right now."
   2140. Man o' Schwar Posted: February 26, 2018 at 05:52 PM (#5630801)
But yes if people keep swearing that Reigns will break Punks “record” it super seriously will.

Right, and Nikka Bella beating AJ Lee's Diva's record by less than a week was totally an accident and had nothing to do with how she and Punk left the company.

Also, you said Punk's 'record' - I said Punk's streak. I'm aware it's not a record.

And if you don't think they've been telegraphing this match for a year on TV, then you haven't been paying attention - as soon as Roman retired Undertaker at WM, the seeds were planted for the two of them to meet at the next WM. Look at how Lesnar has been booked, particularly his match against Strowman from No Mercy and the finish of the Summerslam match. He's been unbeatable since the fluke loss to Goldberg. This goes all the way back to WM31, and closes the loop on Lesnar and Roman not getting to a clean finish between them. Lesnar is unbeatable, and Roman just beat one unbeatable monster who singlehandedly pinned every other top name on RAW in one match. Now Roman will beat Lesnar, and the circle will be closed on putting him at the top of the mountain.

Meltzer didn't ruin anything. You think the only reason Reigns is drowning in boos every night is because everyone in the WWE crowds subscribes to the Observer? Everyone has known this was coming, and while wrestling is definitely scripted, it takes a lot of the fun away when you know the result is inevitable (particularly given that no one seems to really want Reigns to be the face of the company in the first place). At this point, I'm just glad it's going to finally be done. I have no illusions that Reigns is going anywhere - they've got another 4 or 5 WM main events just lined up in a train for him to win (Reigns/Ambrose/Rollins, Reigns/Cena retirement match, even Reigns/Rock, etc.) - but at least it will be nice to have the title back on TV more than once every 6 months. I like Lesnar, but either commit to a full schedule or stay home. You can't be the champion and show up 10 times a year.
   2141. SouthSideRyan Posted: February 26, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5630821)
Reigns lost all the ####### time this past year, including getting pinned by Lesnar in a multi-man. Strowman had the booking that smark fanboys like to claim Reigns had, but they're so worked up about Vince being an idiot that they don't realize Strowman was made by Reigns. Fans boo Reigns because wrestling fans are self-loathing weirdos who think they know wrestling better than the most successful promoter of all time.

If the WWE was as obsessed with Punk's "streak" as his jilted fans were, he'd have broken it by now.

I mean this honestly, why do you bother? You're already complaining about the next 5 year's worth of Wrestlemanias.
   2142. Chokeland Bill Posted: February 26, 2018 at 08:22 PM (#5630829)
Vince is the most successful promoter of all time. That does not mean all of his decisions are correct. He's done a miraculous job with Strowman. If he had actually booked 2014-15 Reigns like 2016-17 Strowman, Seth Rollins wouldn't have needed to cash in to save the Mania 31 main event. Strowman spent 2016 killing people in entertaining ways and working his way up the card. Roman spent 2014 ducking the Shield blood feud and immediately hanging with main-eventers. Instead of putting him into that MitB title match, how about having him get screwed out of it and spend the PPV killing those responsible? Instead of a long, boring match with Orton at Summerslam, how about having him get his hands on Rollins for a while? Not much you can do about his injury time off, but how about keeping him far, far away from Daniel Bryan when he comes back? You can still have him win the Rumble, but maybe don't have all of the babyfaces get eliminated by Big Show and Kane to kill the crowd? Maybe have Daniel Bryan face Lesnar at the Rumble instead of being in the Rumble match itself, fulfilling the original plan for the two of them (otherwise just don't bring DB back until after Mania). Then have Reigns defend the title shot (maybe against Cena) at Fast Lane. I think that path probably would have kept the crowd behind him.
   2143. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 26, 2018 at 08:33 PM (#5630832)
Vince is the most successful promoter of all time


Sports-entertainment promoter perhaps. Tex Rickard is the greatest promoter of all-time. Even Wrestlemania 3’s bogus attendance doesn’t stack up to the second Dempsey vs Tunney crowd.
   2144. Chokeland Bill Posted: February 26, 2018 at 08:35 PM (#5630834)
It's a wrestling thread. Of course the discussion about greatest promoters is talking about wrestling promoters.
   2145. Chokeland Bill Posted: February 26, 2018 at 08:42 PM (#5630835)
It hasn't been said yet, but with the exception of last night's PPV, Raw has actually been pretty darn good since the Rumble.
   2146. SouthSideRyan Posted: February 26, 2018 at 09:09 PM (#5630844)
Of course Vince isn't infallible, and Reigns's Rumble win was terrible booking. As was the following year, after freakin Philadelphia cheered Reigns winning the title. But the prevailing notion of fans online seems to be that Vince is some sort of buffoon who is accidentally a billionaire, and everything good has come from HHH(which is funny enough in its own right)
   2147. Man o' Schwar Posted: February 26, 2018 at 09:11 PM (#5630847)
I mean this honestly, why do you bother? You're already complaining about the next 5 year's worth of Wrestlemanias.

Why do you bother? If wrestling fans are nothing but self-loathing weirdos, then you're wasting your time. You seem perfectly happy with the product as is, so why do you care what the weirdos think?

And baseball fans certainly know about looking down the line and complaining about the next 5 years. I lived through it with the Cubs more than once - you can see that, barring a miracle, there's no playoffs in the future, no 5* prospect coming to save the day, no monster free agent signing that's going to turn everything around. Instead, you hope for the best and you keep watching anyway. People are wrong. Things happen. Prospects come out of nowhere. The owner dies, and the new owner opens the checkbook, and suddenly things are better.

Anyway, I'm certainly not going to change your mind on this, and you're not going to change mine. And while Vince may be the most successful wrestling promoter of all time, WWE history is littered with mistakes that he's made along the way. I think this is one, and you don't. To each his own. I'll keep rolling my eyes watching the hand-chosen WWE golden boy be portrayed as a plucky underdog who has to overcome the odds, and you can just enjoy the show.
   2148. Man o' Schwar Posted: February 26, 2018 at 09:14 PM (#5630848)
It hasn't been said yet, but with the exception of last night's PPV, Raw has actually been pretty darn good since the Rumble.

That gauntlet match was terrific, and really boosted Rollins and Elias. I agree - RAW's been really good since the Rumble. I hope they figure out a good way to shake out all of the pieces into some compelling matches at WM, rather than just dumping everyone into a 6-man tag match or putting them in the battle royal.
   2149. Chokeland Bill Posted: February 26, 2018 at 09:31 PM (#5630853)
Man, Seth really seems inspired now. He never really got back to where he was before the knee injury, but the last week he's been white hot on offense.
   2150. Chokeland Bill Posted: February 26, 2018 at 10:03 PM (#5630858)
If Roman was delivering promos in 2015 like the one he just did on Raw, they wouldn't have needed MitB to save the Mania 31 main event.
   2151. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 26, 2018 at 10:13 PM (#5630864)
That was just a John Cena promo they had left over.
   2152. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 26, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5630866)
Vince is a top promoter, but it's rather astonishing to see how many of his company's biggest stars were not according to plan, and were often impeded by the company for reasons totally unrelated to maximizing business.

My cat could have figured out how to book a yearlong WCW Invasion. Or how to schedule the Hogan-Flair PPV match that never happened.
   2153. Chokeland Bill Posted: February 26, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5630879)
Rousey was much better tonight. Loved the bit where Steph marched forward menacingly and then apologized profusely. Kind of a flat ending, though.
   2154. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 27, 2018 at 06:54 AM (#5630907)
My cat could have figured out how to book a yearlong WCW Invasion. Or how to schedule the Hogan-Flair PPV match that never happened.


If you cat could get Hogan to sell for Flair and put him over he’d be a miracle worker.
   2155. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 27, 2018 at 07:43 AM (#5630914)
It's a wrestling thread. Of course the discussion about greatest promoters is talking about wrestling promoters.


Vince is a sports-entertainment promoter.
   2156. aberg Posted: February 27, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5631214)
Rousey was much better tonight. Loved the bit where Steph marched forward menacingly and then apologized profusely. Kind of a flat ending, though.


Steph was phenomenal last night. There were two other highly entertaining moments. One was when she called Kurt out, Ronda's music hit, Ronda walked onto the stage and halfway down the ramp, and the camera showed Steph very seriously saying to HHH off mic, "that's not Kurt."

The other was when Ronda threatened to rip her arm out of her socket and Steph slowly turned to look fearfully down at her own arm.
   2157. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 27, 2018 at 07:45 PM (#5631362)
From Chris Jericho shouting "Hey! Give me my holds!" to Christian and Goldust arguing over who was going to win their upcoming tag title match like two kids sharing a backseat ("We're taking 'em back!" "No, you're not." "Yeah, we are.")
random throw-ins and unscripted asides are some of the best parts about wrestling.

Another fine example: CM Punk telling John Cena, "Sir, I'm afraid your music is just too loud."

Honorable mention to some random person in the crowd:
Randy Orton: "Unfortunately, something else is a part of me. Something that I have been living with for quite some time."

Random Person: "Herpes!"
   2158. Chokeland Bill Posted: March 20, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5640484)
   2159. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5640504)
booker T: "ho kogan, we coming for you, n......."

*instant surrender cobra*
   2160. Man o' Schwar Posted: March 20, 2018 at 05:37 PM (#5640588)
For those who haven't heard, Daniel Bryan has been cleared to wrestle for the WWE.
   2161. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:21 PM (#5640613)
The adamant three-year quest to finally clear the end level, and anoint Roman Reigns no matter what, continues. And last night's "Raw" was can't-miss TV.

*Fans were reminded that Roman had been unfairly "suspended."
*But Roman showed up anyway!
*Then Roman did another of his new promos, which are John Cena's old promos.
*Then Stone Cold Roman did the badass "defy authority" routine.
*Then Roman did the "I'm here every damn week working for the people, but where's Lesnar?" material.
*Then Roman did the "I'm not leaving this ring until he faces me" sit-in-a-chair bit.
*Then Roman was unfairly handcuffed by some wrestler cops.
*Then Roman beat up those wrestler cops despite being handcuffed.
*Then Roman was savagely attacked by Brock Lesnar while handcuffed, and unable to defend himself.
*Then Lesnar left, but came back to attack Roman some more.
*Then Lesnar left, but came back and attacked Roman some MORE.
*Then Roman was put on a stretcher.
*Then Lesnar came back and attacked Roman even yet some MORE.
*Throughout all of this, Michael Cole was aghast at how heinous all this was for Reigns.

You know, basic booking.

And despite this direction, while Lesnar was whacking Roman Reigns over and over with a steel chair, some in the crowd started a chant of "You deserve it! You deserve it!"
   2162. Man o' Schwar Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:22 PM (#5640615)
And despite this direction, while Lesnar was whacking Roman Reigns over and over with a steel chair, some in the crowd started a chant of "You deserve it! You deserve it!"

I fully look forward to Reigns pinning Lesnar after kicking out of 3 or 4 F5s, immediately followed by WWE muting the crowd so that we can't hear the boos raining down on the end of their showcase PPV.
   2163. Chokeland Bill Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:32 PM (#5640623)
With the gains he's made on the mic since retiring, and his previously established in-ring talent, Bryan is probably the best all-around sports entertainment performer WWE has available. I'm sure he won't be working full-time, but I'm really curious how they'll use him.

Well, other than the obvious match at Mania where you'll have three of the best in-ring workers in the world and yet the focus will be on Shane McMahon. The pop that night will make it worth it.
   2164. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:59 PM (#5640634)
I fully look forward to Reigns pinning Lesnar after kicking out of 3 or 4 F5s, immediately followed by WWE muting the crowd so that we can't hear the boos raining down on the end of their showcase PPV.
i can't wait to see austin and rock come out after the match and hoist reigns on their shoulders.


i haven't watched more than 5 minutes of WWE in the last 2 years, but isn't WWEs best option to have reigns make a deal with heyman and do a "fingerpoke of doom" to end wrestlemania. that would give heyman a reason to be his mouthpiece while he runs interference for lesnar until next year's royal rumble.


   2165. SouthSideRyan Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:05 PM (#5640636)
I’m excited to drink all your tears
   2166. Man o' Schwar Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:39 PM (#5640648)
i haven't watched more than 5 minutes of WWE in the last 2 years, but isn't WWEs best option to have reigns make a deal with heyman and do a "fingerpoke of doom" to end wrestlemania. that would give heyman a reason to be his mouthpiece while he runs interference for lesnar until next year's royal rumble.

As funny as that would be, they wouldn't dare end their biggest show of the year with a total screwjob like this. People pay big money to go to WM. The backlash would be immense. When WCW did the fingerpoke, I believe it was just an episode of Nitro, not any kind of PPV.

I think pairing Reigns with Heyman would be interesting. It certainly works for Brock.

The pop that night will make it worth it.

The pop when he comes out tonight is going to be insane. The crowd is going to go ape-poopy when his music hits, and they're not going to stop for quite a while.
   2167. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:41 PM (#5640649)
As funny as that would be, they wouldn't dare end their biggest show of the year with a total screwjob like this. People pay big money to go to WM. The backlash would be immense. When WCW did the fingerpoke, I believe it was just an episode of Nitro, not any kind of PPV.


The main event of Starcade 97 was a bigger screwjob that the finger poke of doom. That was the biggest PPV in WCW history.
   2168. Chokeland Bill Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:47 PM (#5640651)
I think there's a good chance Ronda main-events over Brock.
   2169. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:50 PM (#5640652)
I predict Bryan's pop will be commensurate with his talent, a B-plus reaction.
   2170. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5640702)
As funny as that would be, they wouldn't dare end their biggest show of the year with a total screwjob like this. People pay big money to go to WM. The backlash would be immense. When WCW did the fingerpoke, I believe it was just an episode of Nitro, not any kind of PPV.

I think pairing Reigns with Heyman would be interesting. It certainly works for Brock.

there are bunch of differences between WWE now and WCW then. key among them:
people were hungry for nash/hogan; not so much for reigns/lesnar.
the fingerpoke made fans the butt of the joke; this doesn't have to.
pro wrestling was mainstream in 1998; now, not so much.

   2171. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5640861)
i haven't watched more than 5 minutes of WWE in the last 2 years, but isn't WWEs best option to have reigns make a deal with heyman and do a "fingerpoke of doom" to end wrestlemania. that would give heyman a reason to be his mouthpiece while he runs interference for lesnar until next year's royal rumble.
This...is not a good idea.
*Then Roman was unfairly handcuffed by some wrestler cops.
You dare call US Marshals 'some wrestler cops'??
   2172. Chokeland Bill Posted: March 26, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5643423)
Shane apparently has diverticulitis. Could be storyline, but seems oddly specific. Obviously he's out of the Mania match if legit. Do they go all in on Bryan and do it handicapped? Or do a surprise partner, which was apparently the backup plan if Bryan wasn't cleared? I hope it's not Ziggler.
   2173. Man o' Schwar Posted: March 26, 2018 at 05:57 PM (#5643429)
Or do a surprise partner, which was apparently the backup plan if Bryan wasn't cleared? I hope it's not Ziggler.

If they do a surprise partner, I would hope it would be Kane - not because I'm dying to see Kane, but because it makes the most sense given his history with Bryan.

I'm not sure who else is out there without a match that could be dropped in. I guess they could pull up the timing on bringing back the "reborn" Bray Wyatt, but they'd have to bring him back as a face or have him turn on Bryan after the match... but if he does that, does anyone want to see another Bryan/Wyatt feud? Especially if Wyatt is on RAW and Bryan is only wrestling part-time?

Beyond that, there's pulling up someone from NXT, or going with a part-timer. Or something boring, like Ziggler.
   2174. Chokeland Bill Posted: March 26, 2018 at 07:46 PM (#5643467)
They could do the ultimate babyface team with Gargano, but I think he and Bryan could ultimately be too similar.

Could also be a good time to bring back Neville and push him back to the normal roster. That would be one hell of a match.
   2175. Man o' Schwar Posted: March 26, 2018 at 08:00 PM (#5643473)
Funny, I thought about Gargano too for the same reason, but I figured unless they're ready to bring him to the main roster they wouldn't just bring him up for one high-profile WM match.

I saw someone suggest Samoa Joe, which makes no sense from a storyline perspective but would be an awesome match. Neville is a great suggestion too. Bryan's running knee into a Red Arrow finish would be something to see.
   2176. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 07, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5649831)
Even when NXT looks like the less impressive show going in, it always knocks it out of the park. Great show.

   2177. Meatwad Posted: April 08, 2018 at 02:39 AM (#5649841)
So who is going to be braun strohmans tag partner or will they let him go it alone? Seems like its time to break seamus and cesaro (sp?) So this would be the time to do it either during the match or after.
   2178. MikeinMI Posted: April 08, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5649869)
Happy Raw after Wrestlemania eve!
   2179. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 08, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5649872)
They won't let him go it alone, but I don't think they're going to break up Sheamus/Cesaro either. My money is on Elias.

NXT last night, not bad if you like stacked cards with 4*+ matches from start to finish. WM will struggle to come close to what NXT did, wrestling-wise - too many matches, too many guys who we know just don't do that kind of work.
   2180. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 08, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5649880)
I think Braun's partner will either be Big Show or Ambrose.

I thought this Mania could be the first show in a while that could top the matching Takeover, but that's probably no longer possible. It should still be a pretty good Mania.
   2181. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 08, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5649905)
Rumor has it that Ambrose is still nowhere near returning from his injury. I guess they could put him in a limited capacity for this match, but I'm not sure he'd be able to continue on a weekly basis at this point.

Big Show would be such a letdown. I like the rumors that it might be Ellsworth - perfect way for Braun to say I don't really need a partner, and would bring the Ellsworth story full circle. (Again, unless they re-sign him though there's no place for him to continue as a regular partner for Braun.)
   2182. MikeinMI Posted: April 08, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5649911)
I think Braun will partner with Samoa Joe. They will lose because they will be arguing and start their own program.
   2183. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 08, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5650066)
So who had the 2nd best debut match in modern wrestling history?
   2184. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 09, 2018 at 12:46 AM (#5650108)
That show was utterly perplexing

The good news:
1. Ronda Rousey did great, better than anyone could have expected. I think HHH and Steph probably took too much of the match, and man if Ronda had hit that move on HHH it would have been great.
2. Daniel Bryan's return was handled perfectly.
3. Although the match was a bit of a letdown, Nakamura's heel turn should inject some nice life into the title scene and sets up a perfect feud with Bryan for Summerslam (I think Shinsuke wins the title in Saudi Arabia).

The bad news:
1. Charlotte and Asuka were having one of the best women's matches ever and then the match and streak ended on the first Charlotte finisher, while they had a built in reason for it not to work. I don't understand ending the match so abrubtly. I would have cut some time from Rousey and given it to Charlotte.
2. Cena / Undertaker was a dream match and got turned into a squash.
3. Jinder
4. Usos/New Day/Bludgies got no time and was a dud.

The mixed
1. Braun and Nicholas was a cute moment, but ehhhh
2. The amount of Roman kick outs was justified by the end result, but that match really fell flat to me. Started hot, but too much time spent on F5-kickout-wait.
   2185. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 09, 2018 at 02:58 AM (#5650114)
Reigns-Lesnar I is my favorite Mania ME of all time. Reigns-Lesnar II sucked. And the IWC is wrong yet again about what they know to be true with Reigns. Oh well, the irrational hate was worth it I'm sure. I'm indifferent on the outcome until I see the next beat, but it'd be nice if people stop hating things based on what they read will happen in the future from Dave Meltzer.
   2186. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 09, 2018 at 09:02 AM (#5650144)
The post-match made it very clear it is still all about Roman. They just delayed it, again. Which, as I've said before, is a mistake. You have to just run with him as champion.
   2187. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 09, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5650153)
You have to just run with him as champion.

Yeah, I don't get this at all. Do we get another 3 months of Brock staying off TV while Roman complains? He beat everyone that RAW has except Brock, so now what? There's no point in having him beat them all again. What does he do for the next 3 months until Summerslam - feud with a returning Samoa Joe? Bobby Lashley? Or will they meet at that Saudi Arabia thing and do the title change there?

The funny thing to me was how dead the crowd was for the whole thing. No one was really cheering Brock, but no one was doing anything for Roman. Even the boos were half-hearted after he made his entrance. It's not surprising - after 7 hours of wrestling, people had to be exhausted. I'd love to go to WM, but showing up early, then staying for 7 hours, then trying to get home through 75,000 people... makes my chair and my TV seem pretty inviting for $9.99.

WWE made some weird choices last night - the Cena squash, Jinder, the kid with Braun, and now this. I wonder if people in the WWE front office think Jinder is close enough to Middle Eastern that the Saudis will cheer him, because I don't know how you don't pull the trigger on Rusev in that match. The crowds are eating up this Rusev Day thing, and it would have been a nice crowd pop to keep the energy going.

I think as Scott Keith used to say, thumbs squarely in the middle for this WM.

(Also, WTF happened to Paige? She looks like she's aged 30 years in the last 6 months.)

EDIT: As I think more about the Main Event, there is the (remote) possibility that with Daniel Bryan cleared to wrestle again, management has decided to switch courses and go with Brock/Bryan in the near future, and that might explain why Roman is now on the outside looking in. After chasing Brock for 4 years and then failing, though, what do you do with him? Maybe Bryan can be the big face that the company wanted Roman to be, and Roman can now be the heel that everyone's been dying to hate.
   2188. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: April 09, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5650170)
(Also, WTF happened to Paige? She looks like she's aged 30 years in the last 6 months.)

That very tight close-up from the spot where she introduced the clip from her movie did her no favors. I recoiled every time. Her makeup is horrific.
   2189. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 09, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5650239)
Her makeup is horrific.

That seemed to be a theme among the women last night. Ronda's makeup was bad as well - way too much eye shadow that starts to run the longer they're out there. She kind of looked like a raccoon at times.

Maybe it's exaggerated to make it stand out to the crowd, but in close up on TV it looks not great.
   2190. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: April 09, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5650240)
As I think more about the Main Event, there is the (remote) possibility that with Daniel Bryan cleared to wrestle again, management has decided to switch courses and go with Brock/Bryan in the near future, and that might explain why Roman is now on the outside looking in. After chasing Brock for 4 years and then failing, though, what do you do with him? Maybe Bryan can be the big face that the company wanted Roman to be, and Roman can now be the heel that everyone's been dying to hate


Nah, I don't think they meant to, but they killed Reigns last night. No heel turn can save him, he's just done. They'll try to find upper card stuff for him for the next several months, but he'll be in the mid-card permanently by 2019. They just put too much into this, and since they "knew" that they were going to put him over tonight they've spent too much of the last calendar year having him put over other people. It's a shame, because he did everything everybody ever said he needed to do to win them over.
   2191. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: April 09, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5650287)
And the IWC is wrong yet again about what they know to be true with Reigns

nope. i was right:
i haven't watched more than 5 minutes of WWE in the last 2 years, but isn't WWEs best option to have reigns make a deal with heyman and do a "fingerpoke of doom" to end wrestlemania. that would give heyman a reason to be his mouthpiece while he runs interference for lesnar until next year's royal rumble.
   2192. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 09, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5650363)
The Rousey/Angle/HHH/Steph match was WAY more entertaining than I expected.

Rousey played the crowd great, but I LOVED Stephanie in this match. She played an fantastic exaggerated heel, and her body language and shouting sold everything that was going on out there.
I did like that last little touch when Rousey was just about to lock in the arm bar when she was pleading for mercy and shouted "Sorry! I said sorry!"

I think the place would have gone absolutely bonkers if Rousey submitted HHH, and that would have been a great finish.

Angle, on the other hand, looked REALLY old and immobile for most of the match.
   2193. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 09, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5650398)
Angle, on the other hand, looked REALLY old and immobile for most of the match.

Yeah, I don't want to see a whole lot more of Kurt in the ring after that. Special attraction fine, but he looked about as bad as the Undertaker did last year.

And you're right, Steph played her part perfectly. It's always nice when she gets her comeuppance given how she usually acts, and they played it up to the max.
   2194. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: April 09, 2018 at 05:26 PM (#5650430)
have reigns make a deal with heyman and do a "fingerpoke of doom" to end wrestlemania

Do you understand what that expression means? Do you just mean 'have Heyman turn on Lesnar'?
   2195. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 09, 2018 at 06:04 PM (#5650437)
Brock officially re-signs with WWE and Roman gets a rematch at Greatest Royal Rumble. Maybe they'll pull the trigger there.
   2196. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 09, 2018 at 06:04 PM (#5650438)
And they just announced that Brock has resigned with the WWE and will be facing Roman for the title at the Saudi Arabia event.

Which likely means they dumped the WM Main Event so that they could do the title change in a more "friendly" environment (read: one where Roman won't get booed out of the building). Plus I'm sure a title change adds another 0 to whatever the Saudis are paying to have this supercard there.

This kind of sounds like Vince being a genius again.
   2197. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 09, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5650512)
First call up - Ember Moon

I really hope the women are due to become an even bigger part of the show. They are starting to build up a real depth of women who should have regular TV time. Ember hasn't really impressed on talking segments, but she's perfect as an in-ring workhorse who can be moved to the top of the card for short periods.

   2198. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 09, 2018 at 08:34 PM (#5650518)
Second call up - No Way Jose

Probably destined to be something like the next Santino, but that's not an insult.

Edit - ehh, he's worse than I remember from NXT. He's been off tv for a long time.
   2199. MikeinMI Posted: April 09, 2018 at 09:37 PM (#5650547)
I miss Paige already. I hope she can be healthy even if she can't compete.
   2200. rconn23 Posted: April 10, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5650750)
"The post-match made it very clear it is still all about Roman. They just delayed it, again. Which, as I've said before, is a mistake. You have to just run with him as champion."

So in Saudi Arabia he gets the belt, which is ... fine. They need to give him a semi-long run with the title so they can finally see he's not the guy. Vince is trying to make him into the next Cena, Hogan or Austin. He's not that guy. He has the look and in-ring ability, but not the charisma. Not even close. His upside is Batista, which is really good. But he'll never be a Mt. Rushmore guy.
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