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Tuesday, July 01, 2014

OTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game

As Time magazine recently reported, Republicans, frustrated by their 22-0 loss in last year’s game, sought a new coach to shake things up on the field this year. Some members even appealed to House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) to fire the coach, Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas). But Boehner said he wasn’t powerful enough to control the baseball diamond, and Barton refused to walk away after spending 28 years with the game. Instead, he brought on Rep. Roger Williams (R-Texas), a former professional baseball player and coach at Texas Christian University, to coach while he stayed on as the team’s manager.

In the face of Wednesday’s loss, according to The Washington Post, Republicans are once again asking Boehner to remove Barton from the game. But with multiple pitchers giving up walk after walk, it seems that what the Republicans really need is a pitcher who can better match Rep. Cedric Richmond (D-La.), who previously pitched on Morehouse College’s varsity baseball team.

Bitter Mouse Posted: July 01, 2014 at 07:53 AM | 4025 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: politics, winning is fun

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   3401. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 05:26 PM (#4759290)
That'd be relevant if Cruz's appeal could ever extend beyond Tea Party sympathizers and other Angry White Men and The Women Who Put Up With Them for God knows what reason.

Bill Clinton was one of the four greatest natural politicians among all the presidential candidates of the 20th century, along with FDR, Kennedy and Reagan.** Don't embarrass yourself by trying to pretend that Ted Cruz will ever be included in that category. You get to that level by projecting wit and optimism, not by sourly railing against the demons in your head while alienating one key group after another.

**You could include Eisenhower in that group, though without his WWII credentials he wouldn't have even been considered a candidate.

blah blah blah

Lucky for Cruz, he won't be running against any of those four.

(By the way, it's funny how Barack "The One We've Been Waiting For" Obama is suddenly absent from such lists.)
   3402. Lassus Posted: July 28, 2014 at 05:32 PM (#4759291)
“We ought to say to these children, ‘Welcome to America, you’re going to go to school and get a job and become Americans. We have 3,141 counties in this country. That would be 20 per county. The idea that we can’t assimilate these eight-year-old criminals with their teddy bears is preposterous.”
George Will speaking to Chris Wallace on FOX.
   3403. rr Posted: July 28, 2014 at 05:48 PM (#4759298)
You want to smear Dungy's record by shouting "Peyton Manning! Peyton Manning!"


Yes, I am very wound up about this. Good thing your calm rationality and even-handed rhetoric is here as a needed counterweight.

I was providing some context to Dungy's record, and to Fisher's. You are focusing on how many times Fisher's teams have made the postseason, and ignoring everything else, since the other numbers--and the presence of Manning on Dungy's best teams--don't suit your preferred narrative.

The fact that Fisher lasted 17 years in Tennessee and that another team wanted him speaks pretty well of him. But recall that this started from the idea that we need to defer to experts like Dungy, but, not, apparently, Jeff Fisher. And again, I simply don't buy that given Dungy's track record on this particular topic, given the fact that he has been out of football for five years, and given the fact that Fisher knows the Rams and the guys on the team a lot better than Dungy does, that we should assume that Dungy has assessed this situation better than Fisher has because of Dungy's record as a coach. Can I prove that I am right? No. But neither can you.

As to the McNair and Young assertions, McNair had a good career and had one good year in BAL, similar to what he did in TN, after he left the Titans. Young's career ended pretty much immediately after he no longer played for Fisher, so I guess you could argue that Fisher ruined him but there is not any evidence that Fisher was holding him back. Manning has been just as successful post-Dungy as he was with Dungy (more so, by some metrics). And there was not a sudden jump in Manning's numbers in 2002. Manning's INTs started going down, and stayed down, beginning in Dungy's 2nd year. That may have had something to do with Dungy. Or it may have just been Manning maturing as a QB and getting better help. Or both.

So, what we are mostly down to is that media people and others bagging on Dungy for his comments about Sam bugs you, like, a lot. That's fine, but that's all you got, and all you are going to have, no matter how many times you complain about unhinged liberals.

   3404. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 28, 2014 at 05:58 PM (#4759305)
Lucky for Cruz, he won't be running against any of those four.

And unlucky for Hillary, she probably won't get to face Cruz, since in the end even the Republicans probably aren't quite that insane. (Although we can dream.) But it's not as if any of the other Republican half-wits are likely to do much better once they've been given the full monty a la Romney once the primaries are over.

(By the way, it's funny how Barack "The One We've Been Waiting For" Obama is suddenly absent from such lists.)

Obama is in the same category as a lot of candidates who look great when the wind is at their backs, and when the opposition is so completely clueless that it keeps playing right into their hands. He'd fall into the same category as Truman or Johnson in that respect. You'll notice that those two and Obama plummeted in the polls in their second terms, while Clinton shook off his impeachment and actually wound up more popular than ever.
   3405. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: July 28, 2014 at 05:59 PM (#4759308)
Clinton's enabling act was the complete lie that the economy in the summer of 1992 was the worst since the Great Depression.

He's a con man.
   3406. BDC Posted: July 28, 2014 at 06:05 PM (#4759312)
Ted Cruz is a guy, I'll give him this much, who's a natural opposition bulldog. Whatever it is, he's against it. Take his recent line that Obama is boycotting Israel by stopping flights into Tel Aviv. If any US plane had been hit going into Tel Aviv, Cruz would be all over the news blaming Obama for not canceling flights sooner. This kind of flakmeister has a place in any legislative system, but it's hard to imagine him actually putting together a coherent message or running an Executive Branch.
   3407. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 28, 2014 at 06:05 PM (#4759313)
Robinred, congratulations for drawing me into a discussion on the level of "Who is better, Jeff Bagwell or Alfonso Soriano?"

Your position that Fisher is on Dungy's level as a coach continues to be absurd, perhaps made to seem less so by the fact that I took your bait in engaging in it.
   3408. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4759331)

#3406 reminds one quite a bit of how Barry O. acted when he was in the minority in the Senate.
   3409. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 28, 2014 at 06:35 PM (#4759333)
Ted Cruz is a guy, I'll give him this much, who's a natural opposition bulldog. Whatever it is, he's against it. Take his recent line that Obama is boycotting Israel by stopping flights into Tel Aviv. If any US plane had been hit going into Tel Aviv, Cruz would be all over the news blaming Obama for not canceling flights sooner.
The best kind of hypocrisy is hypothetical hypocrisy, where the speaker is condemned not for what he actually said, but for what people just know he would say in some nonexistent situation.
   3410. tshipman Posted: July 28, 2014 at 06:40 PM (#4759337)
The best kind of hypocrisy is hypothetical hypocrisy, where the speaker is condemned not for what he actually said, but for what people just know he would say in some nonexistent situation.


I think just using his comments alone illustrate the point nicely. Cruz accused Obama of requiring the FAA to ban flights into Tel Aviv for political reasons. This accusation was both obviously false and transparently opportunistic. Cruz knew the allegation was false, but repeated it because he knew he could score cheap publicity and most of the R base would believe it.
   3411. spike Posted: July 28, 2014 at 06:49 PM (#4759338)
Well in fairness, most of the R base would believe anything if the "right" person said it.
   3412. zenbitz Posted: July 28, 2014 at 06:53 PM (#4759339)
Most of the core of the CPUSA in the Stalinist era should have been in Leavenworth or executed for treason.



The same way papists should be executed for taking orders from the Vatican?

More than a couple members of my family were CPUSA members. To my knowledge none of them committed any crime, espionage, or treason.


   3413. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 06:59 PM (#4759342)
I think just using his comments alone illustrate the point nicely. Cruz accused Obama of requiring the FAA to ban flights into Tel Aviv for political reasons. This accusation was both obviously false and transparently opportunistic. Cruz knew the allegation was false, but repeated it because he knew he could score cheap publicity and most of the R base would believe it.
Well in fairness, most of the R base would believe anything if the "right" person said it.

LOL. Beyond parody.

You guys ever see Obama's Twitter account? "Obviously false and transparently opportunistic" is a charitable way of describing it.
   3414. BDC Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:03 PM (#4759345)
I dunno, isn't Benghazi evidence that O plays fast & loose with American safety? Then when he plays it safe he's an enemy of Israel. Y'all know how permanent opposition politics works. As I said, somebody needs to play that role, just to keep the system honest.
   3415. BDC Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:09 PM (#4759348)
And, run the thought experiment: US flight hit by fire on landing in Israel, Americans die. Ted Cruz says "I stand by our Commander in Chief for bravely keeping economic lines to Israel open." You will sooner see Roger Clemens make out with Mike Piazza.
   3416. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:15 PM (#4759352)
And, run the thought experiment: US flight hit by fire on landing in Israel, Americans die. Ted Cruz says "I stand by our Commander in Chief for bravely keeping economic lines to Israel open." You will sooner see Roger Clemens make out with Mike Piazza.

???

I thought the flight ban was a non-political decision by the FAA that didn't involve the White House?
   3417. tshipman Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:19 PM (#4759357)
I thought the flight ban was a non-political decision by the FAA that didn't involve the White House?


Cruz has shown no compunctions over criticizing Obama for things that Cruz knows that Obama has no control over.

Seriously, do you believe that Obama ordered or pressured the FAA to shut down flights to Tel Aviv?
   3418. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:34 PM (#4759366)
Cruz has shown no compunctions over criticizing Obama for things that Cruz knows that Obama has no control over.

Uh, liberals blamed George W. Bush for a hurricane that hit a corrupt, incompetently run city located below sea level.

Seriously, do you believe that Obama ordered or pressured the FAA to shut down flights to Tel Aviv?

Do you think the FAA issued the flight ban without consulting the White House?
   3419. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:35 PM (#4759368)
The best kind of hypocrisy is hypothetical hypocrisy, where the speaker is condemned not for what he actually said, but for what people just know he would say in some nonexistent situation.

You mean like all those hypothetical hysterical people on this thread who've called for Dungy to be fired for his comments about Sam? The ones that Ray/SBB/GF have been railing against for the last few days?
   3420. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:38 PM (#4759369)
Uh, liberals blamed George W. Bush for a hurricane that hit a corrupt city located below sea level.


They blamed him for not responding to the catastrophe in a timely manner, not for the actual hurricane. Don't let the obviousness of this stop you from being you, Jokey.
   3421. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:40 PM (#4759370)
3418. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:34 PM (#4759366)
Do you think the FAA issued the flight ban without consulting the White House?


3416. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:15 PM (#4759352)
I thought the flight ban was a non-political decision by the FAA that didn't involve the White House?


Thanks for clearing this up.
   3422. tshipman Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:41 PM (#4759371)
Uh, liberals blamed George W. Bush for a hurricane that hit a corrupt, incompetently run city located below sea level.


First of all, this is a non sequitor. Second of all, it's inaccurate. People blamed Bush because he had staffed FEMA with cronies who did a poor job responding to the emergency.

However, it has no bearing on whether or not Cruz has issued opportunistic statements blaming the president for things not under his control, like the FAA ban as a great case in point.

Do you think the FAA issued the flight ban without consulting the White House?


Yes. I think the FAA probably alerted the WH that it was happening, but I do not think they consulted. It's not the President's call unless he issues an EO.

   3423. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:42 PM (#4759372)
They blamed him for not responding to the catastrophe in a timely manner, not for the actual hurricane.

Yeah, if only the MREs and bottled water had arrived a few hours sooner, hundreds of thousands of people whose lives had been destroyed would have been happy and the media coverage would have been different.

LOL.

***
Thanks for clearing this up.

Looks like age is taking its toll. Sad.

***
First of all, this is a non sequitor. Second of all, it's inaccurate.

It's neither.

Yes. I think the FAA probably alerted the WH that it was happening, but I do not think they consulted. It's not the President's call unless he issues an EO.

LOL. You guys are killing me today.
   3424. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:44 PM (#4759375)
You should end all your posts with "I'll be here all week, try the veal", Jokey.
   3425. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:46 PM (#4759377)
Yeah, if only the MREs and bottled water had arrived a few hours sooner


Hours? Try weeks, Jokey.
   3426. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:48 PM (#4759380)
Not for nothing, Jokey, you may be a nice guy IRL, but here you come across as a callous idiot.
   3427. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:49 PM (#4759381)
3424. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:44 PM (#4759375)
You should end all your posts with "I'll be here all week, try the veal", Jokey.

   3425. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:46 PM (#4759377)
Yeah, if only the MREs and bottled water had arrived a few hours sooner
Hours? Try weeks, Jokey.

   3426. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:48 PM (#4759380)
Not for nothing, Jokey, you may be a nice guy IRL, but here you come across as a callous idiot.

A callous idiot who seems to be living rent-free in your rock-filled head.
   3428. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:51 PM (#4759384)
If I offer a PO Box, will you pay?
   3429. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 28, 2014 at 07:58 PM (#4759386)
If I offer a PO Box, will you pay?

He'll pay you from the cut he gets from all those ballplayers he's representing.
   3430. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:01 PM (#4759387)
I'll take it, and put it towards the surgery needed to remove the rocks from my head.
   3431. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:03 PM (#4759389)

Andy is starting to remind me of Drew Barrymore's character in 50 First Dates.
   3432. BDC Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:07 PM (#4759391)
Ted Cruz, a leader who can bring us together and start deep, serious conversations about America :)
   3433. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:09 PM (#4759392)
Romney Would Beat Obama In 2012 Re-Run, 53%-44%
***
Just in case some are missing the point, Obama is still in office - those disaffected Obama voters will have a chance to express themselves again in 2014.

Same Poll that had Romney beating Obama 53-44 had Hilary Clinton beating Romney 55-42

That is missing the point. We do one election at a time in this country. Those disaffected Obama voters who regret their 2012 vote are likely to stay home or vote for the GOP in 2014. There won't be a Hillary - Romney match-up in 2016, Mitt's not running. And, as discussed previously, Hillary's 2016 polling edge is inflated by her name recognition advantage and being above the day-to-day political fray while serving as Secretary of State and since leaving office. Remember Colin Powell's poll ratings? Plenty of time for things to change for 2016, not so much for 2014 - less than 100 days to the election.
   3434. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:09 PM (#4759393)
Ted Cruz, a leader who can bring us together and start deep, serious conversations about America :)

That we still need to be brought together is just one more Obama failure.
   3435. tshipman Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:18 PM (#4759397)
Plenty of time for things to change for 2016, not so much for 2014 - less than 100 days to the election.


Indeed:

GCB 7/28/2010: R+4
GCB 7/28/2014: D+2.5
   3436. rr Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:21 PM (#4759399)
Your position that Fisher is on Dungy's level as a coach continues to be absurd, perhaps made to seem less so by the fact that I took your bait in engaging in it.


Never said that. I just said that I don't think Dungy's record means that he knows what is better for Fisher's team in 2014 than Fisher himself does, especially when it comes to this particular issue, one on which it seems to me that Dungy has an agenda, based on past statements.
   3437. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:29 PM (#4759405)
Those disaffected Obama voters who regret their 2012 vote are likely to stay home or vote for the GOP in 2014. There won't be a Hillary - Romney match-up in 2016,

I guess those RCP polls only matter when they favor Republicans. Hillary doesn't need Romney running against her when she's got Cruz/Rubio/Ryan/Christie/Bush/Paul. All they need is Bashful to fill out the card.

---------------------------------------------
If I offer a PO Box, will you pay?


He'll pay you from the cut he gets from all those ballplayers he's representing.

Andy is starting to remind me of Drew Barrymore's character in 50 First Dates.


I'd more likely remind other people of some of those ballplayers that Mr. Joe Cambria Kehoskie has under contract, although at 70 I might be a few years younger than most of them.
   3438. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:35 PM (#4759411)

That's exactly what I was talking about. I haven't represented players since around the time I posted my first comment here ... in 2010.
   3439. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:37 PM (#4759414)
And now you can fire that loose cannon at will, without fear of alienating clients.
   3440. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:38 PM (#4759415)
Seriously, why did you get out of that business?
   3441. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 08:42 PM (#4759417)

Combination of better opportunities and an unwillingness to commit federal felonies.
   3442. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 28, 2014 at 09:07 PM (#4759436)
I guess those RCP polls only matter when they favor Republicans. Hillary doesn't need Romney running against her when she's got Cruz/Rubio/Ryan/Christie/Bush/Paul. All they need is Bashful to fill out the card.

Folks insisting that 2016 polls are meaningful more than 2 years ahead of the election are ignoring a lot of history. Surprisingly - or not - many of the same folks here have been in denial about 2014 polls for many months.
   3443. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 28, 2014 at 09:34 PM (#4759447)
They blamed him for not responding to the catastrophe in a timely manner, not for the actual hurricane.
Even if your claim were true as a factual matter - but it ignores all the "Bush presided over the destruction of a city" comments - the attacks were ludicrous. Alabama and Mississippi didn't have any of the same kind of problems as Louisiana, because they weren't run by incompetent corrupt fools. (FEMA's job is to respond to requests from the state, not to run things.)
   3444. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: July 28, 2014 at 09:40 PM (#4759451)
Alabama and Mississippi didn't have any of the same kind of problems as Louisiana, because they weren't run by incompetent corrupt fools.


In part, in part. Don't try to pretend it is just as easy to evacuate or get relief to N.O. as it is costal Mississippi.
   3445. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:18 PM (#4759487)
I'd more likely remind other people of some of those ballplayers that Mr. Joe Cambria Kehoskie has under contract, although at 70 I might be a few years younger than most of them.

That's exactly what I was talking about. I haven't represented players since around the time I posted my first comment here ... in 2010.


I stand corrected. Change that "has" to "had".
   3446. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:37 PM (#4759493)

By the way, I didn't realize you're 70. That makes my age-related quip above seem meaner than was intended.
   3447. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 29, 2014 at 12:24 AM (#4759500)
By the way, I didn't realize you're 70. That makes my age-related quip above seem meaner than was intended.


His boyhood hero was Maris. That should fix his age for you.
   3448. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 29, 2014 at 07:23 AM (#4759528)
By the way, I didn't realize you're 70. That makes my age-related quip above seem meaner than was intended.

Joe, if I cared for a second about age-related snark I'd let you know. Given how I've grown up with friends and acquaintances named everything from "Shorty" to "Crip" (AKA "Joe Gimp") to "Half Man", I don't ever take nicknames or putdowns too seriously. So feel free to refer to my senility, my Viagra, or my incontinence. It won't offend me.

-----------------------------------------------------------

His boyhood hero was Maris. That should fix his age for you.

Actually my boyhood heroes are Joe Dimaggio and Manny Machado. Real baseball fans never commit the sin of growing up.
   3449. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 07:44 AM (#4759533)
Joe Dimaggio and Derek Jeter are linked in my mind. Both great players, truly great, and yet someone both manage to end up overrated. And of course both are evil.

And regarding Romney beating Obama I want* three things over the next few years (politically). I want the GOP to impeach Obama, I want the GOP to shut down the government, and I want Romney to run again for President. The world needs Mittmentum again.


* Note: I think two of the three would be bad for the nation and so as a citizen I am against them, but the popcorn factor would be really high for all of them.
   3450. Ron J2 Posted: July 29, 2014 at 09:19 AM (#4759557)
#3404 I think it's more like Obama is an extremely gifted campaigner, but the set of skills that make his so effective on the campaign trail aren't important in office.
   3451. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 10:20 AM (#4759582)
#3404 I think it's more like Obama is an extremely gifted campaigner, but the set of skills that make his so effective on the campaign trail aren't important in office.


I think Obama is a very gifted politician (well duh, you almost have to be to become President). His strong attributes are organization, discipline, and speech making. He rarely panics and he negotiates very well.

Like everyone though he has plenty of flaws, he is a bit centrist, technocratic and really seems to want to have the big compromise deal. He is more than a little aloof, with a biographical charisma and great story, but one that is not at all like the personal friendly charisma of a Clinton or Bush II.

I don't think many presidents would have done much better given the situation. There is a fair amount of luck in being president, Reagan with the fall of the USSR, Clinton with the roaring economy, Bush with 9/11. All three had major administration changing events that they didn't have much (if any) control over that still defined to one degree or another their presidency.

There is a reason you can't truly evaluate a president fairly from a historical perspective until time has passed (and certainly not during it), because when you are so close you really can't see the forest because those darn trees are in the way. For example as time passes I am becoming less and less enamored with Bill Clinton's presidency. It was not a disaster, but as time passes it keeps looking worse to me.

But hey like everyone else I plan on continuing to evaluate politicians during their terms, but I also plan on remembering that it is not the best practice.

And #3450 has a good point, the attributes for campaigning do not translate 100% over to governing, but that is true for all presidents.
   3452. BDC Posted: July 29, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4759583)
Reagan with the fall of the USSR

It's astonishing how little credit GHWB gets for presiding through that one :)
   3453. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM (#4759588)
Obama is in the same category as a lot of candidates who look great when the wind is at their backs, and when the opposition is so completely clueless that it keeps playing right into their hands. He'd fall into the same category as Truman or Johnson in that respect. You'll notice that those two and Obama plummeted in the polls in their second terms, while Clinton shook off his impeachment and actually wound up more popular than ever.

#3404 I think it's more like Obama is an extremely gifted campaigner, but the set of skills that make his so effective on the campaign trail aren't important in office.


Here's how I see those presidents with a bit more contextual detail:

FDR began with the country in its worst condition since the end of the Civil War. He immediately took dramatic action to restore confidence in the financial system, and with solid majorities in both houses of Congress he was able to pass one bill after another, with the country willing to give him a free reign. In this respect, only LBJ in 1965 had it quite as easy, with every wind behind his back.

He was an extraordinarily charismatic campaigner, but he did have one disastrous electoral cycle in 1937-38, when his ill-fated court packing scheme coincided with a slump in the economy and a botched attempt to purge anti-New Deal Dixiecrats in several primaries. But then by 1940 his campaign magic returned, and even in 1944 when he was near death, he still had a lot left in him.

Truman was a great campaigner for exactly one election (1948), but he was helped by the complacency of the Republicans who believed all the polls, and in the "Do-Nothing" 80th Congress he had a perfect foil, even if that Congress actually passed a fair amount of important legislation, most notably the Marshall Plan.

But no president could have had the political skills to overcome runaway inflation and the stalemated Korean war, not to mention a Republican opposition that by 1951 was every bit as rabid in their hatred of him as the Tea Party mad dogs are of Obama today. He would have been absolutely crushed by Eisenhower if he'd chosen to run for a second full term.

Kennedy was young, handsome and casually witty, as well as being a war hero, and a natural on the campaign trail. But IMO the main reason that he's seen the way he is today is because of his martyrdom. If he'd survived Oswald, there's no guarantee that he would've gotten the civil rights bill passed, as his charisma didn't work that well on Congress, and by the middle of 1963 he was hated by southern whites at near Obama-like levels. Being martyred was the only way he was going to change that.

LBJ had enormous political skills, but they were of a type that worked only with Congress. He won his landslide in 1964 due to two factors that had nothing to do with those skills: He was seen as the martyred Kennedy's torchbearer, and he had the unbelievable good fortune to be running against Barry Goldwater, who was born with both feet in his mouth. As soon as he sent the first ground combat troops into Vietnam, whatever political magic he had quickly dissolved.

Reagan was lucky he was running against Carter, but you can't imagine a better combination of personal traits for an American politician: Tall, handsome, good hair, friendly, optimistic, impossible to dislike unless you already hated his political positions, able to tell a good story seemingly off the cuff, able to articulate a set of principles in soundbite format without seeming to be "intellectual" (the worst trait any candidate can display), and pre-existing name recognition on a level greater than any previous candidate other than Eisenhower.

But like nearly all of the other great candidates, his skills weren't transferable. His party lost 9 Senate seats and 27 House seats during the time he was in office, in spite of his continuing personal popularity, and the fact that his successor won the presidency. (He could in part thank Michael Dukakis for that.)

Clinton was the ultimate chameleon candidate. No presidential contender in the 20th century could better adapt himself to nearly every conceivable type of constituency. He was the "first black president" who still was able to win several southern states.** He was the policy wonk supreme while able to speak Good Ole Boy with the best of them. He was even a sports fan of sorts, and a golfer whose well-publicized Mulligans were easy for other hackers to relate to, even if they wouldn't admit it. His IQ was off the charts but he didn't rub it in. His only real liabilities were his unchecked libido and Hillary, who was utterly tone deaf when it came to dealing with people that her husband needed to pass key legislation. Hopefully she's learned something from that experience, but we won't know for sure until 2016.

Obama was a very good campaigner for himself, a terrible campaigner for anyone else, and he had the misfortune to govern during a time when the opposition was out to destroy him from Day One. FDR, LBJ and Reagan didn't have to contend with an intense and numerical opposition remotely like that. FDR and LBJ had overwhelming majorities when they enacted their key legislation, and Reagan didn't have half of Congress controlled by the SDS or MoveOn.org. at any point during his presidency, which would have put him in the equivalent of Obama's shoes of today.

But Obama did leave one legacy with long-term effects: He brought his party's fundraising into the 21st century, and how. I know that's not really an accomplishment by normal standards, but this is what it's come to these days.

**Imagine our actual black president being able to twice win West Virginia!

   3454. spike Posted: July 29, 2014 at 10:33 AM (#4759589)
Watching the con media spin jam into reverse on impeachment this week has been nothing short of hilarious. I guess since even they have figured out it's an electoral loser there's not much choice than to blame it Obama and hope reverse psychology works on the base.

Fox Host Claims Conservatives Aren't Talking About Impeachment 12 Days After One Called For Impeachment On His Show

Conservatives Blame Democrats For Conservative Impeachment Threats

Glenn Beck: Obama Wants To Be Impeached

"We have no plans to impeach the president. We have no future plans," a visibly frustrated Boehner said. "Listen, it's all a scam started by Democrats at the White House."

Hi-larious.
   3455. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 10:34 AM (#4759591)
It's astonishing how little credit GHWB gets for presiding through that one :)


Fair enough, in fact RDF. My bad.
   3456. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 11:17 AM (#4759612)
So things continue to go well for Putin and Russia. Putin's Strategy Is Complicated by Rebel Setbacks in Ukraine, Sanctions

At the same time, the U.S. and Europe said they would adopt the harshest economic sanctions yet on the Kremlin this week. The European Union—Russia's largest trading partner—is expected to move as early as Tuesday to restrict transactions with Russia's state banks, as well as limit technology exports vital for the country's oil and weapons industries. The U.S. has vowed to follow suit.

The new sanctions were agreed to during a conference call Monday that included U.S. President Barack Obama, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French President François Hollande, U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron and Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi.

The leaders agreed Moscow hadn't done enough to deprive the separatists of arms or to push the separatists toward a truce with the Kiev government, U.S. and European officials said. Although Russia offered modest concessions for international monitoring, it has actually substantially stepped up supplies of weapons to rebels across the border, according to Western officials.

"We expect the European Union to take significant additional steps this week, including in key sectors of the Russian economy," said Tony Blinken, Mr. Obama's deputy national security adviser. "In turn, and in full coordination with Europe, the United States will implement additional measures itself."


Hey look Europe leading the way. Excellent.
   3457. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 11:47 AM (#4759641)
Consumer Confidence in U.S. Jumps to Highest Since 2007

Confidence among U.S. consumers soared in July to the highest level in almost seven years as Americans grew more upbeat about the labor market and the outlook for the economy.

The Conference Board’s index rose to 90.9, the highest since October 2007, from a revised 86.4 in June, according to the New York-based private research group said today. The gauge exceeded the most optimistic forecast in a Bloomberg survey in which the median called for an 85.4 reading.

More employment opportunities, fewer firings and resilient equity markets are buoying spirits against a backdrop of geopolitical tension in Ukraine and the Middle East. Faster wage growth would help to further spur sentiment and provide the wherewithal for bigger gains in consumer spending.


Wonder if it will show up in polls YC doesn't post here?
   3458. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 29, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4759664)
. . . I want the GOP to impeach Obama . . .

It's a sign of how politically weak Obama has become that he presides over the first White House to gin up talk of its own impeachment. It's a desperate ploy to rally support and raise funds from base Democrats. Seems to have worked with Bitter Mouse.
   3459. Lassus Posted: July 29, 2014 at 12:28 PM (#4759679)
...the first White House to gin up talk of its own impeachment.

They did what?

EDIT: Ah, I see the story now on Yahoo. Huh. Why are you listening to the liberal media NOW all of a sudden?
   3460. Mefisto Posted: July 29, 2014 at 12:31 PM (#4759683)
It's a sign of how politically weak Obama has become that he presides over the first White House to gin up talk of its own impeachment.


It was particularly devious for him to get Sarah Palin to advocate it.
   3461. spike Posted: July 29, 2014 at 12:31 PM (#4759684)
It's the only thing the Party Of Stupid has left to deploy - The Kenyan Boomerang. "We WOULD have impeached Obama, until we figured out HE WANTED US TO!".
   3462. spike Posted: July 29, 2014 at 12:47 PM (#4759700)
It was particularly devious for him to get Sarah Palin to advocate it.

Among many, many others, this is just the first batch that came to mind -

Steve King

Tom Coburn

James Inhofe

Lindsey Graham

Michelle Bachmann
   3463. Shredder Posted: July 29, 2014 at 12:49 PM (#4759705)
It was particularly devious for him to get Sarah Palin to advocate it.
You don't give him enough credit. His decision to run for Senator in 2004 was the first step in his long game which would eventually lead to him calling for his own impeachment. If he'd never been elected, Republicans would never have brought up impeachment! He made them do it!
   3464. Mefisto Posted: July 29, 2014 at 12:58 PM (#4759709)
The best part is that Obama not only advocates his own impeachment, he's convinced a majority of Republicans to agree (see p. 16, cross tabs for Question 34). Man that's devious.
   3465. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 29, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4759711)
By the way, I didn't realize you're 70. That makes my age-related quip above seem meaner than was intended.

His boyhood hero was Maris. That should fix his age for you.


To correct your typo, Andy's boyhood hero was Mars, the god of war.
   3466. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 29, 2014 at 01:00 PM (#4759713)
Steve King

Tom Coburn

James Inhofe

Lindsey Graham

Michelle Bachmann


Do we have long-form birth certificates of all of these likely double agents?
   3467. zonk Posted: July 29, 2014 at 01:14 PM (#4759723)

It's a sign of how politically weak Obama has become that he presides over the first White House to gin up talk of its own impeachment. It's a desperate ploy to rally support and raise funds from base Democrats. Seems to have worked with Bitter Mouse.


Let me just add my own guffaws to this...

It's more than easy enough to find additional examples - but if the WH is so mind-numbingly stupid as to NOT fundraise and frighten against the caterwauling of the GOP fringes (otherwise known as the GOP "base"), then I'd support impeachment, too... because it would political malpractice not to shine a really bright light onto the dumbest of your opponents.

   3468. McCoy Posted: July 29, 2014 at 01:17 PM (#4759725)
To correct your typo, Andy's boyhood hero was Mars, the god of war.

Wrong century, buddy. Mars was the remake for the youngsters. Andy is old school. His boyhood hero was Ares.
   3469. Ron J2 Posted: July 29, 2014 at 01:25 PM (#4759729)
Cook Political on the Senate races

Race by race.

The Bottom Line: We give Republicans about a 50-50 chance of taking the majority. They are halfway there, but picking up the other three seats won’t be easy. They can afford to lose one of their own seats and still have a chance at 51 seats, but they can’t lose both Georgia and Kentucky.

As Jonathan Bernstein notes "Cook Report traditionally is very conservative about predicting defeat for incumbents, which in this case favors Democrats." (Though Cook also sees Kentucky as being in play)
   3470. Howie Menckel Posted: July 29, 2014 at 01:26 PM (#4759730)
I was surprised to hear that Lindsey Graham had called for Obama to be impeached, per Post 3462. so I clicked the link from last month and found this instead:

"Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) warned Wednesday that Republican lawmakers would call for President Obama’s impeachment if he released more prisoners from Guantanamo Bay without congressional approval. Republicans worry Obama may try to shut down the prison camp unilaterally after congressional opposition has repeatedly stymied efforts to pass legislation to close it."


   3471. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 29, 2014 at 01:29 PM (#4759731)
It's a desperate ploy to rally support and raise funds from base Democrats.


of course it's a "ploy"

the question is whether or not it's a "desperate ploy"

lets' see,
1; Does Obama really "fear" impeachment? Hell no, of course not, just the opposite.
2: Are they getting desperate because they see a GOP wave barreling down the tracks towards them? Well despite YC's and others best [worst] efforts, no they don't see that- but they do see losing the Senate as a very real possibility- but how do they see the possibility of losing the Senate?

Obama? Losing the senate would be bad, he'd pretty much lose the only thing he has left, the ability to make appointments, Congress might even get its act together up and start reversing his executive orders... he'd be the lamest of lame ducks for 2 years...

Other Dems? This is trickier - keeping the Senate means a continuation of the past 2 years- which isn't so great for either party- losing the Senate puts the GOP in the perceived drivers seat when the [seemingly] inevitable Obama v. GOP showdown/shutdown/trainwreck occurs... Hilary is probably praying for a GOP takeover of the Senate
   3472. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 01:38 PM (#4759733)
The article linked in 3469 is pretty good. Thanks.
   3473. spike Posted: July 29, 2014 at 01:43 PM (#4759737)
Does Obama really "fear" impeachment? Hell no, of course not, just the opposite.

Actually, either way is fine. It's a classic heads I win tails you lose prop bet - the Republican leadership has been telling the base nonstop of Obama's lawlessness and tyranny, the rubes are demanding action before Obama leaves office which is an electoral loser, but the price of not doing it is to be being labelled a RINO and primaried. The fig leaf of "Obama is calling for his own impeachment!" isn't fooling anyone, but what the hell else can they say at this point?
   3474. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 29, 2014 at 01:43 PM (#4759738)
To correct your typo, Andy's boyhood hero was Mars, the god of war.

I'm afraid in my case it was more like Mars, the King of Cavities.
   3475. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 29, 2014 at 02:06 PM (#4759747)
From Cook:

Republicans, of course, have a very different take on where the battle for control of the Senate stands today. First, they point to the overall political environment. President Obama is unpopular, particularly in many of the stats hosting competitive Senate contests.


Despite what the YCs of the world would have you believe Obama's personal popularity (or lack thereof) is only part of the overall political climate. What's also part is that GOP favorability is in the toilet.

the "competitive" races, by most accounts there are 6 of them, Alaska, Colorado, Georgia, Iowa, Kentucky, and Louisiana.
2012:
Alaska: went for Romney 55:41
Colorado: went for Obama 51:46
Georgia: went for Romney 53:45
Iowa: Went for Obama 52:46
Kentucky: went for Romney 60:38
Louisiana: went for Romney 58:41

or 9 if you add Arkansas, Michigan and North Carolina
2012:
Arkansas: went for Romney 61:37
Michigan: went for Obama 54:45
North Carolina: went for Romney 50:48

All but 2 of those seats are Dem held, basically the Dems are defending a bunch of seats in GOP territory, one could argue that if Obama was really dragging the Dem ship down those seats shouldn't even be competitive, but that's not where I'm going to look,
Colorado, Iowa and Michigan. Currently Dem seats, went for Obama in 2012- losing those seats would be REALLY bad news for the Dems.

Colorado: There's been a fair amount of polling, Udall (the Dem) has a small lead in most. Colorado is a bit of a microcosm of the Country there's quite the urban/rural divide there.
Iowa (open seat), not as much polling as Colorado, the most recent poll has a 1 point lead for the Rep (Ernst), the one before that was a tie. I don't know much about this except that Ernst was the one who ran the hog castration ad in the primaries.
Michigan (open seat) good amount of polling, the Dem (Peters) has a healthy lead in all but 1 where the Rep (Land) leads by 1.
   3476. tshipman Posted: July 29, 2014 at 02:14 PM (#4759749)
Despite what the YCs of the world would have you believe Obama's personal popularity (or lack thereof) is only part of the overall political climate. What's also part is that GOP favorability is in the toilet.


Yeah, I've been making this point somewhat snarkily with my posts of the generic congressional ballot, but it's very interesting that since the middle of May, Obama's ratings have gone in the toilet. He had rebounded from the Obamacare rollout to get back to about -8 or so, but has now gone back in the tank down to about -12. That's a pretty significant change that can probably be attributed to general "bad things happening" abroad.

The interesting thing about this is that the GCB has gone the other way, from about even in May to D+2.5, which is actually a fairly significant number. This is somewhat surprising (to say the least) given that Obama is the face of the Democratic party.

The most likely explanation would simply be randomness or error, but the size of the change seems to preclude that explanation. A drop of 4 points in net approval is pretty significant, as is a change of around 3 points in the GCB. This is actually a somewhat unique political environment that doesn't have great precedent in the modern era. Perhaps the closest direct comparison might be Truman's second term, with the Do-Nothing Congress? Not really sure. Really no great examples of something similar.
   3477. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 29, 2014 at 02:31 PM (#4759753)
Perhaps the closest direct comparison might be Truman's second term, with the Do-Nothing Congress? Not really sure. Really no great examples of something similar.

The "Do-Nothing" 80th Congress was elected during the midpoint of Truman's first term, and he used it as a pinata to get re-elected in 1948. But after that, his popularity sank like a lead balloon for several reasons, and the Dems wound up losing the presidency and both houses of Congress in the next presidential cycle.
   3478. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 29, 2014 at 02:48 PM (#4759762)
I agree with # 3475 that if Democrats can't hold their Senate seats in Blue or Purple States, they have virtually no chance of holding the seats in Red States that they need to retain control of the Senate. And it's looking like some of those Blue/Purple seats will be a problem - Braley's Missteps Have Iowa Democrats Worried:
The Iowa race has been seen as tightening since GOP candidate Joni Ernst won the June 3 primary convincingly. That sense culminated this weekend with the news that Braley's campaign had parted ways with its pollster and ad-maker earlier this summer (first reported by Politico).

Chief among Braley's missteps this year, and appearing most frequently in GOP ads, are his now-infamous comments from a fundraiser in which he described GOP Sen. Chuck Grassley as "a farmer from Iowa who never went to law school."

Polls find the race is now a toss-up: The most recent, from NBC/Marist, found Braley and Ernst tied at 43 percent each. Other recent public polling has given a slight edge to either Braley or Ernst—a far cry from the consistent high-single-digit leads Braley was commanding earlier this year.

"This race did a 180 when [Braley] stubbed his toe on that 'farmer' comment," said former Des Moines Register political reporter David Yepsen. "He may have mortally wounded himself with that, because he wasn't well-known to a lot of people."
. . .
Several stories since the "farmer" comment have helped reinforce, at least in national circles, Braley's unfortunate penchant for putting his foot in his mouth: At a parade earlier this month, Braley appeared to answer a voter's cheer of "We're farmers!" with "So am I!" (The campaign said Braley thought the voter had said "We're for farmers," which is why he agreed.)

Republicans also seized on a story about Braley and his wife complaining to the local homeowners association about a neighbor's chickens running free, a story that helps fit into the GOP portrayal of Braley as an elitist trial lawyer. Another report this week found he had missed the majority of Veterans Affairs Department oversight hearings in 2011 and 2012.

A foot-in-the-mouth candidate who has already fired his campaign manager and pollster may not be the best bet to change the momentum of the race. Unless there is a crazy-quilt of state results that defy traditional voting patterns, Democrats won't retain control of the Senate if they lose in Iowa.
   3479. tshipman Posted: July 29, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4759785)
Seriously, does the RNC pay you or something?
   3480. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 29, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4759792)
He had rebounded from the Obamacare rollout to get back to about -8 or so, but has now gone back in the tank down to about -12. That's a pretty significant change that can probably be attributed to general "bad things happening" abroad.


-8 to -12 is where he's been bouncing since last November/December... if he breaks that bracket then I'd pay more attention.

Other polls/races/topics have really seem to have been divorced from Obama's approval rating.

Speaking of which, looking at some polls in depth, American disapproval of Congress is pretty bi-partisan, but there are some differences, those who identify as being independent or "moderate" really really really disapprove of Congress


right direction/wrong direction, again interesting splits, a slim majority of blacks seem to think we're in the right direction, a majority of Hispanics think we're in the wrong direction, a vast majority of whites think we're in the wrong direction
   3481. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 03:38 PM (#4759807)
JSLF - That's why I posted the stuff regarding "Consumer Confidence in U.S. Jumps to Highest Since 2007" because I think that might change the right track/wrong track dynamic a bit and could result in a shift. Right now a large number of races are stuck in coin flip mode and I think "wrong track" numbers in net hurt the "incumbent" party (which in this election is team blue). It is the first real positive note I have seen in a while (well second if you want to include the jobs surge a little while ago).

Right now the GOP has been too unpopular to capitalize on how unpopular the other side is, but one side or the other is likely I think to get an advantage (I hope, race to race monitoring for the dreaded gaff is tedious as all get out, especially with no real national story line*).

* Naturally the GOP keeps hoping for its break out story: Obama scandals, ACA, Immigration crisis, and foreign events (Israel, Ukraine). None of the impress me much I admit, the scandals are duds, ACA is really old news, the Immigration issue cuts both ways and if not careful will make the GOP look heartless, and foreign events tend to bore the heck out of your typical voter (sadly). Of course YC and others have a different spin on the list.
   3482. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 29, 2014 at 03:38 PM (#4759808)
Jesse Ventura awarded $1.8M from a jury in his defamation suit. Looks like jury was deadlocked, the parties then agreed the jury's less than unanimous verdict would be accepted. 8-2 in favor of the Body. I'm guessing Kyle's estate was running out of $, and this is actually far from the worst outcome. (the Body wanted $5-$15m)
   3483. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 29, 2014 at 03:45 PM (#4759817)
* Naturally the GOP keeps hoping for its break out story: Obama scandals, ACA, Immigration crisis, and foreign events (Israel, Ukraine). None of the impress me much I admit,

Didn't see that coming.
   3484. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 29, 2014 at 03:45 PM (#4759818)
That's why I posted the stuff regarding "Consumer Confidence in U.S. Jumps to Highest Since 2007"
I thought you were saying that the fact that Obama is polling so badly is causing consumers to be more confident.
   3485. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 03:56 PM (#4759826)
I thought you were saying that the fact that Obama is polling so badly is causing consumers to be more confident.


OK, I laughed.
   3486. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:04 PM (#4759832)
8-2 in favor of the Body. I'm guessing Kyle's estate was running out of $, and this is actually far from the worst outcome. (the Body wanted $5-$15m)


I'm experiencing flashbacks right now to a really sad civil trial I covered about 25 years ago in Little Rock in which the defendant, who had burned down (or at least badly damaged) her boyfriend's residence by setting a fire in the utility room, attributed the deed to one of her multiple personalities, several of which we heard from at various times during her testimony. If memory serves, they all referred to her (for lack of a better term) core self as "the body." Truly creepy.

(At that time, I didn't know Jesse Ventura or his nickname from a hole in the ground; I hadn't even seen Predator. Which I still haven't, come to think of it, since my BluRay player hasn't seen fit to allow me to get more than halfway through the movie; a 3rd disc with the flick should be in my mailbox courtesy of Netflix when I get home this evening.)
   3487. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:14 PM (#4759842)
That's why I posted the stuff regarding "Consumer Confidence in U.S. Jumps to Highest Since 2007"

So, Democrats should run on the economy in 2014? I believe their own consultants disagree.

BTW, I believe Bitter Mouse is engaging in the very "cherry picking" he accuses others of practicing, even when others are producing cherries by the bushel.
   3488. tshipman Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:15 PM (#4759843)
* Naturally the GOP keeps hoping for its break out story: Obama scandals, ACA, Immigration crisis, and foreign events (Israel, Ukraine). None of the impress me much I admit, the scandals are duds, ACA is really old news, the Immigration issue cuts both ways and if not careful will make the GOP look heartless, and foreign events tend to bore the heck out of your typical voter (sadly). Of course YC and others have a different spin on the list.


I think immigration is a pretty big win for the GOP in this cycle. You don't have to worry so much about brown voters during a midterm, and the issue plays really well to white voters. They have a narrative that on the surface seems compelling (we're getting all these immigrants due to Obama's lawlessness) and ties back to some of their core brand identities.

It will likely have bad effects in 2016, but for 2014, I think it's hard to deny that the immigration stuff favors Rs. It's an issue that they already had a strong position on, that position happens to be popular, especially with their core demographics.
   3489. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:23 PM (#4759853)
So, Democrats should run on the economy in 2014? I believe their own consultants disagree.

BTW, I believe Bitter Mouse is engaging in the very "cherry picking" he accuses others of practicing, even when others are producing cherries by the bushel.


Posting a consumer confidence jump not seen since 2007 is cherry picking? Says the guy who only posts positive polls and screams bloody murder "It's not my job to look for polls good for your position" when people mention it? That is really funny dude, thanks!

And by the way, I never said they should run on the economy or anything like it. I explicitly said it helps democrats with right track/wrong track as they are essentially the incumbent party.

I think immigration is a pretty big win for the GOP in this cycle. You don't have to worry so much about brown voters during a midterm, and the issue plays really well to white voters. They have a narrative that on the surface seems compelling (we're getting all these immigrants due to Obama's lawlessness) and ties back to some of their core brand identities.


I think it can help them, but the GOP has shown a strong tendency to push too far, and the danger in it is that they end up rousing the normally slumbering off cycle voter AND end up looking heartless to all those suburban moms they really need to romp to victory. They have to appeal to their base and not go so far as to turn off the lower information voters and not excite the other base.

Yes it is possible (heck maybe even likely), but I don't see it as a slam dunk. We have all seen the base when they get riled up, it generates a bit of crazy that tends to spill out.
   3490. tshipman Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:26 PM (#4759857)
And by the way, I never said they should run on the economy or anything like it.


I think Ds should run on the economy. They own it anyways, might as well try to make chicken salad. Pelosi on Colbert was trying to push some middle class investment program. I think that's as good a line as anything.
   3491. Ron J2 Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:28 PM (#4759859)
#3456 Does Dan Drezner read BBTF? two flavors of foreign policy analysts
   3492. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4759870)
I think Ds should run on the economy. They own it anyways, might as well try to make chicken salad. Pelosi on Colbert was trying to push some middle class investment program. I think that's as good a line as anything.


That may be, and I am not sure I would argue it (especially if the economy continues to improve), but it isn't what I said (shockingly YC was less than honest about his portrayal about what I said).
   3493. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4759872)
The Jesse Ventura verdict is interesting because it's very hard for a low-level public figure to ever win a defamation case, let alone a wrestler/movie actor/governor/author/television host.
   3494. zenbitz Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4759886)
Mike Tanier's article on Michael Sam and other Distractions

Money Quote (although not on Sam):
We just may have societal problems that transcend the opinions of Stephen A. Smith.
   3495. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:54 PM (#4759890)
We just may have societal problems that transcend the opinions of Stephen A. Smith.

The real issue is that we have societal problems that transcend the narrative of either party. i.e. all the solutions offend one or more shibboleth of both parties.
   3496. zenbitz Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:54 PM (#4759892)
The problem I have with the "Reality Creators" on foreign policy is that it's it seems rather difficult to determine WHICH levers to push in WHAT direction, before you even get into how HARD to push them. That is - I agree, in principle, that action "on the ground" can move the needle. I just have no confidence that we'd (ever) move it in the correct direction. (Counter example: WW2)
   3497. zenbitz Posted: July 29, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4759895)
The real issue is that we have societal problems that transcend the narrative of either party. i.e. all the solutions offend one or more shibboleth of both parties.


I am not sure I disagree with you there, buddy. I guess, (like the above w.r.t foreign policy)- just because there's a third way doesn't automatically imply that it's better than the other two (bad) way. It could be even worse!
   3498. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 29, 2014 at 05:03 PM (#4759900)
I am not sure I disagree with you there, buddy. I guess, (like the above w.r.t foreign policy)- just because there's a third way doesn't automatically imply that it's better than the other two (bad) way. It could be even worse!

It could be. The issue is that we need both a major economic restructuring and a major social restructuring to combat the economic and social forces that are destroying working and middle class prosperity.

The economic restructuring is anathema to the "country club and prosperity Gospel conservatives", and the social restructuring is anathema to the "Hollywood and Upper West Side" liberals.

Neither more free-trade and tax cuts for the rich, or more regulation (that is easily controlled by corporate interests) and an expansion of the dole, will solve our issues. So, I see no way for either existing political agenda to do anything but dig us deeper in the hole.

In 50 years, we're going to look like Brazil.
   3499. The Good Face Posted: July 29, 2014 at 05:13 PM (#4759908)
#3456 Does Dan Drezner read BBTF? two flavors of foreign policy analysts


The Zen whatsits have the better policy preferences, but for the wrong reasons. History is not on anybody's side. No matter who you are.

It could be. The issue is that we need both a major economic restructuring and a major social restructuring to combat the economic and social forces that are destroying working and middle class prosperity.

The economic restructuring is anathema to the "country club and prosperity Gospel conservatives", and the social restructuring is anathema to the "Hollywood and Upper West Side" liberals.


It's a real pity that the left won the culture war and what passes for the American right won the economics war. If those victories were reversed, we'd be in much better shape.

In 50 years, we're going to look like Brazil.


It won't take 50 years.
   3500. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 29, 2014 at 05:20 PM (#4759912)
I think immigration is a pretty big win for the GOP in this cycle.

It may be in the short run, but in the long run it's fool's gold. Look at what happened to the Republicans in California after Pete Wilson foreshadowed today's GOP by crusading for Proposition 187. All it accomplished in the long run was to alienate an entire generation of Latinos against the state party, since the law itself was thrown out and never reinstated.
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