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Thursday, February 28, 2013

[OTP - March] Scott wants money for spring training teams

While working at the Detroit Tigers’ spring facility in Lakeland, Gov. Rick Scott announced today he will ask the Florida Legislature to set aside $5 million a year for projects specifically aimed at improving the Major League Baseball training facilities in the state.

“It’s my job as governor to make sure Florida remains the number one destination for spring training and that is why we will work to provide $5 million annually to only be used for spring training facilities,” Scott said in a statement that was released while Scott was participating in one of his “work days” with the Tigers at Joker Marchant Stadium in Lakeland.

Tripon Posted: February 28, 2013 at 02:05 PM | 2909 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baseball, florida, ot, politics, spring training

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   2201. BDC Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4393732)
Seems clear from this survey that there's no one-fits-all recommended sleep pattern. I get 8 hours – straight through, or less with an afternoon nap to make up the difference. And I feel much better if I sleep with an empty stomach, so I tend to eat at unsociably early times.

The newest meme is that people "naturally" go to sleep just after sundown, wake up and hang out (or whatever) in the middle of the night, and then sleep some more till dawn. This may explain the existence of infomercials, but it has never suited me. The siesta pattern suits me better: get up very early and then nap in the heat of the day.
   2202. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4393733)
Your go to night snack should be water. Although water does tend to act as a wake up for the body if you drink too much of it.
   2203. Publius Publicola Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:09 PM (#4393734)
Things are not as bad for Cyprus as they may seem:

Cyprus is sitting on a natural gas gold mine

Cyprus" and "luck" haven't exactly been synonyms lately, but at the end of 2011, American firm Noble Energy (NBL) made a find that was very lucky indeed: A giant natural gas field off the country's southern coast.

The field is modest by international standards. Noble estimates it could yield between 5 trillion and 8 trillion cubic feet of gas.

...That means Cyprus, currently trying to secure a European bailout to cover huge budget deficits and bad bank holdings, could start exporting the gas to raise money. There's also the possibility that some energy companies might offer the country cash upfront in return for a share of the gas.


An interesting twist to this is that the field Noble Energy has discovered for Cyprus adjoins a field that Israel is developing, and the two countries have agreed to work together to best exploit these finds, perhaps even enter a joint venture to build a liquefaction plant or pipeline to the European mainland through Cyprus for export. This has Turkey very upset, who want in on the profits from this field, but has through its own political shortsightedness precluded any mineral rights settlement they may find favorable without kicking up a shitstorm they don't want.
   2204. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:10 PM (#4393735)
I looked out one night maybe a month back and realized I had absolutely no idea where I was, on a road I've traveled every day for the last 2 years.


In grad school I got up, went to school, went to my internship, went to work, went home (watched an hour or two of recorded - VHS baby - TV to relax), went to sleep and then did the same thing every day (weekends were more work less school). I got enough sleep thank goodnes or I woulod have gone mad, it was bad enough as it was. I got freakishly good grades and did well everywhere, but yuck.

Recently I programmed my smart phone to yell* at me when it was bedtime. It has worked so far. You can program self control now, I love technology.

* The screen dims, blue tooth turns off, and it buzzes and puts up a message telling me to go to bed.
   2205. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:11 PM (#4393736)
About six weeks ago I read a newish book called Dreamland: Adventures in the Strange Science of Sleep that, among other things, posited (IIRC; undoubtedly, I'm screwing up some details) that biologically we're set up to sleep about 4 hours, then get up for an hour or so, then go back to sleep. Apparently, that was SOP only a couple of centuries ago.


Edit:
Which I think echoes what BDC posted above, which I didn't see till now --

The newest meme is that people "naturally" go to sleep just after sundown, wake up and hang out (or whatever) in the middle of the night, and then sleep some more till dawn.
   2206. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:11 PM (#4393737)
I'm just not comfortable wearing it anymore, so I don't, except when the 2-3 nights a year when I'm in a hotel room with someone else & so need to eliminate the snoring. *sigh*


You're lucky that you can skip it. When they did my sleep study last year, I had 151 breathing incidents in an hour, or an average of one every 20-30 seconds. My doctor told me that I might die if I fall asleep without using it.

The thing that motivated me to go in and get checked was falling asleep in the middle of taking a morning shower. Standing up - I just kind of slumped over against one of the walls, and I didn't snap back to reality for about 10 or 15 minutes.
   2207. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:11 PM (#4393738)
The newest meme is that people "naturally" go to sleep just after sundown, wake up and hang out (or whatever) in the middle of the night, and then sleep some more till dawn. This may explain the existence of infomercials, but it has never suited me. The siesta pattern suits me better: get up very early and then nap in the heat of the day.


Natural sleep patterns require natural lighting, which no one on the planet outside of rural Africa gets much of these days. If you want to see the power of natural circadian rhythms on your sleep cycle, go rent a cabin 1000 acres from any light source and get up when your body tells you to. Leave the watch and phone off for a couple of days and then recheck. You'll have recalibrated to a completely different schedule.
   2208. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4393741)
You're lucky that you can skip it. When they did my sleep study last year, I had 151 breathing incidents in an hour, or an average of one every 20-30 seconds. My doctor told me that I might die if I fall asleep without using it.


"Lucky" probably isn't the word. I don't remember the number of incidents recorded in my sleep study, but I know it was bad enough that the tech woke me up after 30 minutes becaus it was so dire that a full hour wasn't needed to document that.
   2209. Greg K Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4393742)
Your go to night snack should be water. Although water does tend to act as a wake up for the body if you drink too much of it.

Water does me no good! Though I do tend to drink a ton of it. Pretty much the only liquids I drink are booze and water. The amount of times I wake up in the middle of the night made me think I had an enlarged prostate*...but then I realized I was drinking about 6 litres of water between dinner and bed-time.

*But that's kind of par for the course. I'm a bit of a worrier, and when I have nothing real in my life to worry about my mind drifts to insane things, like being convinced I had polio in high school, or becoming convinced I'd have to have my foot amputated a few months ago for no apparent reason. About seven years ago I couldn't sleep for about two weeks because I was convinced my toes were too close together. I had to actually stuff tissue between them while in bed. Once I get over the episode of insanity it's quite re-assuring actually. It usually just means I don't have any legitimate professional, personal, or financial worries.
   2210. Lassus Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4393746)
You're lucky that you can skip it. When they did my sleep study last year, I had 151 breathing incidents in an hour, or an average of one every 20-30 seconds. My doctor told me that I might die if I fall asleep without using it.

"Lucky" probably isn't the word. I don't remember the number of incidents recorded in my sleep study, but I know it was bad enough that the tech woke me up after 30 minutes becaus it was so dire that a full hour wasn't needed to document that.


I hate to sound old or something, but I admit I lately doubt these things. I assume you're not 22 or so, so between say 18 and last year, were you at a 50/50 chance of death from SIDS every night of your life? 25%? 10%?

Considering the frequency of this sort of story recently (I/THEY/HE MAY DIE IN THEIR SLEEP) I also end up wondering what the cause of death was listed at for the past 150 years or so of people dying in their sleep due to breathing problems/sleep apnea. I just don't recall a lot of stories from my youth or history of sleep suffocation. Were they all listed as midnight heart attacks?

What am I missing?
   2211. BDC Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:23 PM (#4393751)
Yes, gef – Elizabeth Kolbert recently wrote on that pattern in the New Yorker, and I've seen it cited in several stories elsewhere. It's a little hard to imagine – particularly in the higher latitudes, where nights become interminable in winter and very short in summer. That would seem to require seasonal adjustments, and certainly could explain restless winter or summer midnights (you've either been in bed too long since sunset, or you can't sleep because the sun never went down). But in the tropics, the siesta pattern seems more natural for many reasons, partly because people start a lot of activities as or after the sun goes down, and also the whole mad-dogs-and-Englishmen thing. Hard to say. I've never known anyone who really woke naturally at predictable times in the middle of the night, though as Sam says that could be due to our fallen light-polluted condition.
   2212. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4393753)
What am I missing?


I don't kow about die, but everyone I know who has gone to a CPAP has had it change their life for the better. One dude's whole attitude changed once he started sleeping. I dated a girl once who had sleep apnea and I woke up all night long when she stopped breathing. It was terrible.
   2213. Greg K Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4393754)
I'm not exactly sure how to describe them, but "breathing incidents" sound about right for a friend of mine. When we have cottage weekends he sleeps in the one-room cabin up the hill from the main cottage because a few of the lighter sleepers aren't capable of sleeping in the same building as him. He also sleep-walks...which can be frightening to witness. Once we were sharing a hotel room after a friend's wedding and he had just had shoulder surgery. His arm was in a sling and it was very important that he not move it, so he said if he started sleep-walking to wake him up immediately. There was an interesting scene that night that consisted of him standing guard by the window, looking for...something, still not sure what...and me and my other friend yelling at him to wake up.
   2214. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4393756)
I assume this is pretty common, but I'm much better off just staying up all night if the alternative is 4 hours or less of sleep.

I believe research supports this as well.

My deal is temporary, doing the work of three people for the next two months, while selling a house, and a half-time single dad of two young kids, one having behavioral issues (the dad part isn't changing anytime soon). Really sucks for now, but should be better by summer.

I can't nap, at least not effectively. If I sleep six hours, then take an hour long nap later that day - it's like I slept an hour the night before, my sleep clock completely resets.

***

Sorry, Greg - that sucks.
   2215. Greg K Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:29 PM (#4393760)
But in the tropics, the siesta pattern seems more natural for many reasons, partly because people start a lot of activities as or after the sun goes down

I went to Seville a couple summers ago. We arrived at around 10am and thought it would be fun to get to know the city on foot all day before hitting some of the pubs later. The progression was:

11am - wow, what a bustling city! Paella! Tinto de Verano! Hooray!
12:30 pm - wow, this place sure is deserted. What fun it is exploring in this ghost town!
1pm - how far is the hotel?
1:30pm - where can we get some water?
2pm - I think I've forgotten my name
   2216. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:31 PM (#4393763)
I hate to sound old or something, but I admit I lately doubt these things. I assume you're not 22 or so, so between say 18 and last year, were you at a 50/50 chance of death from SIDS every night of your life? 25%? 10%?

Considering the frequency of this sort of story recently (I/THEY/HE MAY DIE IN THEIR SLEEP) I also end up wondering what the cause of death was listed at for the past 150 years or so of people dying in their sleep due to breathing problems/sleep apnea. I just don't recall a lot of stories from my youth or history of sleep suffocation. Were they all listed as midnight heart attacks?

What am I missing?


I hear you. I apparently didn't develop apea till maybe the last 6-7 years or so (in the sense that I didn't snore before that, judging from the testimony of wives/gf's), but if the sleep study people are correct, I don't have any business being alive at this point.

As it happens, just last night I finished watching a movie called The Shadow People about young, healthy people dying in their sleep because of, of course, the titular menace, though of course everyone denied that & instead was mystified about the cause of death. Sleep paralysis was invoked more than once, of course, & god knows that's a real (& frightening, when it happens) thing.
   2217. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4393772)
Cyprus banks took a lot of deposits from Cypriots and Russian businessmen. They invested in real estate, particularly in Greece. Oops. The total owed is several times the GDP of the nation. They don't have the money to cover the losses. The troika offered to cover some of the losses, but not all, because they don't want to bail out Russian mobsters. They also want Cyprus to embark on austerity, even though before the crisis Cyprus was running surpluses. In order to save the banks, the Cypriots need to come up with $5.4 billion. They could take it all from uninsured deposits, but that would mean no future Russian mobster business, which they don't want to give up. Also, as a result of all the money that flowed into the country wages and prices shot up, and now they aren't competitive with the rest of Europe (as Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece). If they had their own currency they could devalue it, but they don't, so they can't even rely on tourist money to help them recover as visiting Cyprus is comparatively very expensive.

I assume this is pretty common, but I'm much better off just staying up all night if the alternative is 4 hours or less of sleep.


No, no no no no! Sleep is always better. In fact, I've never stayed up all night. I always make sure to get at least some sleep. Much better for you.

   2218. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4393773)
I hate to sound old or something, but I admit I lately doubt these things. I assume you're not 22 or so, so between say 18 and last year, were you at a 50/50 chance of death from SIDS every night of your life? 25%? 10%?


I've probably always had apnea to one degree or another, since I've been snoring and falling asleep on car trips since I was a kid, and had occasional bouts of sleep paralysis back then as well. But for whatever reason, it's gotten much worse over the last couple of years. I was routinely going from asleep to fully awake four or five times a night, every night, and at least once or twice a night I'd get cramps in my legs because there wasn't enough blood flow.

I just don't recall a lot of stories from my youth or history of sleep suffocation. Were they all listed as midnight heart attacks?


From what I've read, most of the sudden deaths directly attributable to apnea are as a result of heart attack, stroke, or seizure, so my guess would be that it'd go on the certificate as one of those three.
   2219. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:50 PM (#4393774)
There are also a fair number of urban legends about breathing-related sudden sleep death, like this and this and this, which might be related.
   2220. Ron J2 Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4393777)
Shouldn't eat ice cream (diabetic) but ... salted caramel does sound very appealing (never tried it). And what doesn't kill me ...



The problem with this, Ron, is that sometimes it kills you :P


Not quite to date, but my blood sugar was up near 30 when I was admitted so I guess there's a question as to how close it was.

I worked with somebody who got tired of trying to eat like a responsible diabetic. He got his doctor to put him on insulin, eats what he wants, tests and uses the insulin as required. Personally I think it's nuts. I had to have insulin injections when I was first admitted and didn't enjoy it at all. Nor did I enjoy the need to test 4 times a day.
   2221. Blastin Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4393781)
Yay a fan death mention!
   2222. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:19 PM (#4393785)
Natural sleep patterns require natural lighting, which no one on the planet outside of rural Africa gets much of these days. If you want to see the power of natural circadian rhythms on your sleep cycle, go rent a cabin 1000 acres from any light source and get up when your body tells you to. Leave the watch and phone off for a couple of days and then recheck. You'll have recalibrated to a completely different schedule.

Interesting you mention that, since probably the best sleep I've had over the past 23 years has been whenever we've had power outages that lasted through the night.

Worst sleeping conditions I've ever faced was in the 70's, when I had to stay at a KOA outside Phoenix, with about an acre of floodlights and an interstate just a hundred yards or so away. Some ####### "Kampground" that was.

We live in an extremely quiet cul-de-sac, and what I've never been able to understand is how someone can sleep in a non-high rise building that's right on a busy artery.** Between Kensington and DC there are scores of expensive single family houses within 25 yards of Connecticut Avenue, which has traffic roaring by at 45 to 60 MPH at all hours of day and night. I have no idea why anyone would ever want to live in houses in those locations, especially since there's relatively little price difference between them and houses that are well beyond the Avenue's noise reach.

**Soundproofing is the standard answer to traffic noise, but it always seems to work a lot better when you don't need it (in the daytime) than when you do (late at night, when the noise is more sporadic, and therefore individual cars whooshing by are a lot more noticeable).
   2223. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:25 PM (#4393786)
I find traffic noise very soothing, as long as there is no honking. I loved living next to Storrow Drive in Boston.
   2224. CrosbyBird Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:25 PM (#4393787)
If I knew I was a few hours from dying & thus didn't mind the consquences, I'd go to town with vanilla ice cream floats made with red cream soda.

What is this red cream soda you're talking about? I've heard it mentioned but never tried it.
   2225. CrosbyBird Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4393788)
Cyprus is sitting on a natural gas gold mine

When you think about, isn't everyone?
   2226. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4393789)
   2227. CrosbyBird Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:33 PM (#4393790)
I find traffic noise very soothing, as long as there is no honking. I loved living next to Storrow Drive in Boston.

Me too. I leave the terrace door open most of the time when the weather cooperates, even though I live on 8th Avenue in Manhattan.
   2228. Greg K Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:37 PM (#4393793)
I find traffic noise very soothing, as long as there is no honking.

My parent's house is within earshot of the 401 (massive 16-lane highway that runs through Toronto). After about 20 years living there I don't even hear it anymore. It's like ocean white-noise.

I also like sleeping in the woods as there is usually plenty of ambient sound, and I somehow like the enclosure the trees give you.

I once slept at a girl-friend's parents' farm in the middle of the Manitoba prairie. That was unsettling...just way too quiet and wide open.
   2229. Blastin Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4393794)
That was unsettling...just way too quiet and wide open.


This always freaks me out, too. Sleeping in the Amazon also kept me up the first night because I coulda sworn I was about to be snakebit.

But the other days I tired myself out so much it didn't matter.
   2230. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:43 PM (#4393798)
Barq's Red Creme Soda.


Yep. Couldn't swear I've had Barq's, but every version I've ever had, from Nehi to Big Red to store brand (Kroger has its own, & so does Winn-Dixie down here, or at least they did when I was buying it up till about 8 years ago), is the nectar of the gods.
   2231. Ron J2 Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:52 PM (#4393804)
the nectar of the gods


Is Dad's Root Beer
   2232. Greg K Posted: March 21, 2013 at 04:53 PM (#4393805)
You guys are way off. Ginger Beer is clearly the way to go.
   2233. Canker Soriano Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:01 PM (#4393807)
Me too. I leave the terrace door open most of the time when the weather cooperates, even though I live on 8th Avenue in Manhattan.

I lived on the 40th floor of a high-rise, and always slept with the windows open. The traffic noise is kind of nice. Even now, the house backs up to a rather large road, and I prefer the window open at night. It's only really a problem when idiots on motorcycles roll through and insist on revving their engines and loudly peeling out at 3 AM.
   2234. formerly dp Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4393811)
Me too. I leave the terrace door open most of the time when the weather cooperates, even though I live on 8th Avenue in Manhattan.
I used to appreciate/not mind Manhattan traffic noise when I lived in NYC. Now I live in housing complex in the suburbs, and, when it's warm/cool enough to sleep with the windows open, the intermittent traffic going out of the gate in the morning wakes me up. A lot of people in our complex work at the hospital, so around 5 AM there's a lot of noise about 60 feet from our bedroom. One dude guns his bike as he exits the gate, at precisely 5:15 every morning. Just can't get used to it.
   2235. Morty Causa Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4393814)
The Uzzo family in my hometown had the 7up bottling plant when I was growing up in the '50s and '60s. They also bottle a line of their own, including a U-ZO cream soda that was scrumptious--it was very yellow, a canary bright yellow like as I remember. They also had a red pop (like the cream soda), that was a strawberry flavor, an orange that was remarkably like Orange Crush, and a root beer that was like Frostie. The cream soda and the red pop made great floats. When the plant closed in the '70s, that was that. Of course nostalgia may have tainted objectivity, but I remember those two--the cream soda and the red--as better than any mainstream brands. Here's the bottle:

U-ZO pop bottle
   2236. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4393822)
You guys are way off. Ginger Beer is clearly the way to go.


I like the ginger beer from this place. It's made in Pittsburgh at a little plant down by the river in Natrona Heights. Very gingery.
   2237. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:57 PM (#4393841)
The best sleep I have ever had has been on boats/ships. Far and away the best part of the cruise last year was the sleeping. I love being on the water.
   2238. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:07 PM (#4393846)
You guys are way off. Ginger Beer is clearly the way to go.

I love ginger beer. Nice and spicy.
   2239. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:11 PM (#4393850)
Half of BBTF appears to be descended from French aristocrats who spent their every waking moment sitting around eating soft cheese. Those of us from hardier stock enjoy the freedom of being able to easily digest anything we can wrestle into our stomachs.

I do spend a lot of waking moments sitting around eating stinky cheese.

I eat a lot of raw stuff, too. I eat a disturbing amount of steak tartare. And I'm notorious for leaving things out for very long periods of time and eating them anyway. Add that to the very moldy cheese I eat a lot of and I'm probably *way* up there in bacteria percentage eaten.
   2240. CrosbyBird Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4393853)
One dude guns his bike as he exits the gate, at precisely 5:15 every morning. Just can't get used to it.

I think it is legal to kick that guy in the nuts in most jurisdictions.
   2241. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:18 PM (#4393855)
"Loud pipes save lives" is the mantra I keep hearing from all my cycle riding friends, but I think it is BS.
   2242. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:26 PM (#4393859)
A good summary of how Cyprus got into its current mess.
   2243. SteveF Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:42 PM (#4393866)
Cyprus banks took a lot of deposits from Cypriots and Russian businessmen. They invested in real estate, particularly in Greece. Oops. The total owed is several times the GDP of the nation.


Yes. A country with a GDP of ~18 billion euros simply cannot guarantee 60 billion euros worth of deposits. This is what they mean when they say the Cyprus banking system isn't sustainable. As a comparison, the US has $13 trillion of deposits and a GDP of $15 trillion.

The troika offered to cover some of the losses, but not all, because they don't want to bail out Russian mobsters.


Two other issues in play. First, if the ECB (i.e. Germany) lent Cyprus all the money it needs, Cyprus would be at a 145% debt/GDP ratio which is not sustainable. Second, German popular opinion is against bailing out any more countries and Merkel has to run for reelection in 6 months.

Honestly, the ECB plan all along might have been to force Russia to contribute to part of the bailout. Though perhaps that's giving them too much credit.
   2244. zenbitz Posted: March 21, 2013 at 07:34 PM (#4393885)
I have a non-seasonal cyclical (maybe 7 months?) Sleep/energy pattern where i go from wanting 9-10 hrs (and getting barring alarm clocks) and then getting 5-6/night and bursting with energy all day. Apparently i am too rational to be diag'd manic, but will drop into depression every so often.

Now i am in a manic phase, except for the concussion from the bike accident last week. Hit a bump on a flat and my front wheel released. Or something. Cracked my helmet in three places, if i wasnt wearing it i might be eating out of tube.
   2245. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 07:51 PM (#4393900)
Two other issues in play. First, if the ECB (i.e. Germany) lent Cyprus all the money it needs, Cyprus would be at a 145% debt/GDP ratio which is not sustainable.


Well, if Cyprus' economy totally collapses, it will have a debt of 145% of GDP even if it doesn't borrow a single dime more.
   2246. SteveF Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:00 PM (#4393905)
Well, if Cyprus' economy totally collapses, it will have a debt of 145% of GDP even if it doesn't borrow a single dime more.


Sure, but not on Germany's dime. What Cyprus needs is a handout from Germany, and that's precisely what they can't get.
   2247. Tripon Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:03 PM (#4393908)
Cyprus can get that handout from Russia. I doubt Russia is going to allow all that Russian money disappear.
   2248. SteveF Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:10 PM (#4393913)
Cyprus can get that handout from Russia. I doubt Russia is going to allow all that Russian money disappear.


Cyprus better hope so. I think the ECB is quite willing to let them default and leave the euro, if only just to see what would happen.
   2249. Lassus Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:59 PM (#4393938)
I eat a lot of raw stuff, too. I eat a disturbing amount of steak tartare.

If you haven't so far, go now to your nearest Ethiopian restaurant and have the kitfo, served traditional style.
   2250. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:59 PM (#4393939)
Sure, but not on Germany's dime. What Cyprus needs is a handout from Germany, and that's precisely what they can't get.


Europe (Germany) has got to decide do they want a EU or not? Do they want all the benefits of the Euro and the costs? Because over time you don't get one without the other, and that is what they want. Boo hoo on their dime, if they don't like it then don't form the EU in its current form and let in who they let in.
   2251. SteveF Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:11 PM (#4393945)
Because over time you don't get one without the other, and that is what they want. Boo hoo on their dime, if they don't like it then don't form the EU in its current form and let in who they let in.


Alternatively, Cyprus has to decide whether they are in or out. The price of staying in is the bank tax (and likely some changes to their banking system). Membership in the EU has its benefits, but also its costs.
   2252. Lassus Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:11 PM (#4393946)
Let's talk politics AND comics AND science fiction!

Artist Exits Orson Scott Card Superman Story - Plagued by controversy because of the “Ender’s Game” author’s anti-gay views, the DC Comics project has lost illustrator Chris Sprouse.

Chris Sprouse, the artist who had been slated to collaborate with Orson Scott Card on a Superman comic-book story, has departed the project.

The prolific sci-fi author behind the Ender's Game series of books has been outspoken in his views against same-sex marriage and gay rights. Because of those views, DC Comics received backlash when on Feb. 6 it announced Card as one of several authors who would contribute a chapter to new Superman anthology series.

Sprouse announced Tuesday that the media attention the story received prompted him to drop out of the project.


But I'm sure that upcoming Ender's Game film has nothing to worry about.

Oh wait...
Now Summit faces the tricky task of figuring out how to handle Card’s involvement. The first big challenge will be whether to include him in July's San Diego Comic-Con program. Promoting Ender’s Game without Card would be like trying to promote the first Harry Potter movie without J.K. Rowling. But having Card appear in the main ballroom in front of 6,500 fans could prove a liability if he’s forced to tackle the issue head-on during the Q&A session.

“I don't think you take him to any fanboy event,” says one studio executive. “This will definitely take away from their creative and their property.” Another executive sums up the general consensus: “Keep him out of the limelight as much as possible.”
   2253. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:27 PM (#4393955)
Artist Exits Orson Scott Card Superman Story - Plagued by controversy because of the “Ender’s Game” author’s anti-gay views, the DC Comics project has lost illustrator Chris Sprouse.
Sad to see Sprouse go, but good on him. Been a fan of his since he did "Tom Strong."
   2254. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:37 PM (#4393959)
then getting 5-6/night and bursting with energy all day. Apparently i am too rational to be diag'd manic, but will drop into depression every so often.


If these were capital-M Manic phases, you'd be more likely bursting with energcy despite getting 5-6 minutes rather than hours per night, judging (unfortunately) from my experience. Well, that's an exaggeration, but probably more like 1-2 hours.
   2255. Tripon Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4393960)
Card's novels always seem to fit a pattern. He starts out really strong, and then it just gets weird, out there, and creepy, which makes you want to stop to read.

I still don't know what to make of Xenocide or Children of the Mind. Just weird, weird #######.
   2256. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:42 PM (#4393963)
DC has been screwing PR up left, right & center for months now. I haven't paid attention to any of their comics (or Marvel's) in ages, with a couple of rare exceptions, but I know a couple of high-profile writers have quit before their first issues came out, citing editorial interference. (Oddly, one such instance opened the door for a former night cops reporter at my old paper in Little Rock to be the new writer on Green Lantern Corps, not that I'd ever heard of the guy, since he came along about 6 years after my departure.)

As for Card, he's not merely a homophobe, but a raving Mormon (he could just as easily be a raving fundamentalist or a raving Muslim or whatever, of course, or for that matter I suppose a raving atheist) who's a big wheel on the National Organization for Marriage, or whatever the thing is called, & is putting big(gish) bucks into rolling back the trend toward allowing gay marriage. #### him, & #### anybody who'd give him money to propagate his hatefulness, DC obviously included.
   2257. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:53 PM (#4393972)
DC has been screwing PR up left, right & center for months now. I haven't paid attention to any of their comics (or Marvel's) in ages, with a couple of rare exceptions, but I know a couple of high-profile writers have quit before their first issues came out, citing editorial interference.
Yeah, and it's a shame since a lot of their new 52 titles have been very good. (Some have been exceptionally violent even by comic book standards, far too much for young readers IMO, and some have been outright sexist and near-pornographic in their artwork.)
   2258. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:53 PM (#4393973)
Alternatively, Cyprus has to decide whether they are in or out. The price of staying in is the bank tax (and likely some changes to their banking system). Membership in the EU has its benefits, but also its costs.


If it was just Cyprus that would have more force. But there is Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Spain ...

As was said up thread when you meet an a-hole you met one, when you meet them all day however it is probably you (meaning Germany, not you you).

Card aside: He can write, but I always feel like he is preaching at me when I am reading his books and it is always years between his books, because I just don't like it (and this is an opinion from long before I knew about his views).
   2259. Lassus Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:55 PM (#4393974)
I still don't know what to make of Xenocide or Children of the Mind. Just weird, weird #######.

Yeah, Xenocide was where I checked out, years and years ago, prior to any knowledge of Card's more recent high-profile ugliness.
   2260. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:56 PM (#4393976)
"Ender's Game" is a great book.

I don't care much for Card as an individual.

I don't see any reason why you'd necessarily need to have an author do PR work for a movie based on one of his novels. There are lots of movies made from books written by people who are dead, or who don't speak English, and most of them turn out OK.
   2261. SteveF Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:06 PM (#4393982)
If it was just Cyprus that would have more force. But there is Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Spain ...


My larger point is that there are no principles involved here. The question is simply whether giving Cyprus €7 billion (we can call it a loan, but it's one they will never repay) is more in Germany's interest than risking a Cypriot default.

The calculus was different in the case of Ireland/Spain/Greece because those are larger economies with a greater potential to affect German interests.

Cyprus has less leverage and the calculus involved is less clear. First, handing them a loan in the short term doesn't solve the long term issue of Cyprus's inability to backstop its own banking sector. Second, there's the potential for Russian involvement. Let Russia save its own Oligarchs from the haircut. Third, there's the issue of contagion (mainly first to Greece). What happens if the proposed haircut causes a bank run in Greece?

The other factor here is the German electorate. The German electorate does not want to bail out Cyprus. Should Merkel bail them out anyway, in contravention of the will of the German people?
   2262. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4393984)
Yeah, and it's a shame since a lot of their new 52 titles have been very good. (Some have been exceptionally violent even by comic book standards, far too much for young readers IMO, and some have been outright sexist and near-pornographic in their artwork.)


Only two I've read to any extent were the first 8 or so issues of Wonder Woman (OK, I suppose, but that's no more Wonder Woman than I am, & while Cliff Chiang is one of my favorite artists, he must've been doing these issues really fast or something) & of Birds of Prey (pretty darned decent). And also the first World's Finest (so-so) & Dial H (very promising, but subsequent back issues' refusal to turn up really cheap on eBay has meant I haven't seen them).

In the meantime, I'm in one of my periodic I-have-no-interest-in-reading-any-comics-by-anyone phases. *sigh*
   2263. spike Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:13 PM (#4393987)
"Loud pipes save lives" is the mantra I keep hearing from all my cycle riding friends, but I think it is BS.

It is BS. This biker hates the damn things, and they don't do much of anything from a safety POV, IMO. And I'm a Harley guy.
   2264. tshipman Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:27 PM (#4393991)
My larger point is that there are no principles involved here. The question is simply whether giving Cyprus €7 billion (we can call it a loan, but it's one they will never repay) is more in Germany's interest than risking a Cypriot default.


It's more than default. If the ECB lets Cyprus default, they leave the Euro (because why the #### would you stay?). So the risk is not just letting Cyprus default, but also allowing a bank run ripple effect throughout the EU and having more countries leave the Euro.

The calculus was different in the case of Ireland/Spain/Greece because those are larger economies with a greater potential to affect German interests.


The bailout would also be smaller.


Cyprus has less leverage and the calculus involved is less clear. First, handing them a loan in the short term doesn't solve the long term issue of Cyprus's inability to backstop its own banking sector. Second, there's the potential for Russian involvement. Let Russia save its own Oligarchs from the haircut. Third, there's the issue of contagion (mainly first to Greece). What happens if the proposed haircut causes a bank run in Greece?


The haircut is a terrible, terrible idea. A much better idea that Felix Salmon wrote about was to convert every bank account over EUR100K to a 5 or 10 year CD. That raises the same amount, while technically not arbitrarily setting aside peoples' deposits.

It's very easy for Germany to say, let Russia handle this, but what will they say when it affects Germans?


The other factor here is the German electorate. The German electorate does not want to bail out Cyprus. Should Merkel bail them out anyway, in contravention of the will of the German people?


This is the biggest reason why the Troika is playing hardball. Isn't that sort of an awful commentary, though? The whole Euro project was elite-led, by the way, so saying that it's in contravention of the "will of the German people" is sort of silly.
   2265. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:29 PM (#4393992)
My larger point is that there are no principles involved here.


Well I guess, but I think there is a principle. When you set up the EU don't go half way. Set up a real currency union or don't, but this half baked bullcrap is in danger of driving the world economy into a ditch for no good reason. More clearly the EU is not stable. It can't be stable with the set up they have. But they continue to screw around and nibble at the edges and it is very annoying.

So I have no tolerance for German whining about "being forced to pay for other countries" because they were the main driver in setting the system up. No one forced this on them and they love the benefits. They (Many of the complaining voters) are the European equivalent* of the Tea Party morons with signs reading "keep government away from my medicare".

* Meaning a bit smarter and much more suave (and a cool accent), but still basically morons.

EDIT: And a coke to tshipman who said much the same thing, but nicer, faster and better.
   2266. SteveF Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:41 PM (#4393995)
It's more than default. If the ECB lets Cyprus default, they leave the Euro (because why the #### would you stay?).


It's not clear why the ECB should care if Cyprus leaves the EU. (To be clear, I think they should care about the default. If Cyprus leaves the EU after that, I can't see why that would cause additional worry.)

The bailout would also be smaller.


Much.

It's very easy for Germany to say, let Russia handle this, but what will they say when it affects Germans?


"Oops"?

The whole Euro project was elite-led, by the way, so saying that it's in contravention of the "will of the German people" is sort of silly.


The EU or the bailout? I'm just acknowledging public opinion polls that indicate the German electorate doesn't want to bail out any more countries. I am unsure of what the Germans think of EU membership. Saying a bailout would be in contravention of the will of the German people in that context doesn't strike me as silly. (Edit: Never mind. I understand the point now. The entire idea for the EU was in contravention of the will of the German people, so what's another €6 billion.)

Frankly, the best 'principled' argument in favor of bailing out Cyprus is that the problems the Cypriot banking sector is having now were caused by the haircut they had to take in the bailout of Greece. So really, bailing out Cyprus now is just an extension of the decision to bail out Greece then. (The counter argument being that the Cypriot banks were unwise to invest in Greece and deserved to take the haircut.)

Ultimately, part of the problem is people in Germany don't think of Cyprus the way a person in New York probably thinks about California. That's fairly evident in the way the issue is even being discussed. It's not the ECB bailing out an EU bank. It's Germany bailing out a Cypriot bank. That's a potential problem for the long term viability of the EU.
   2267. tshipman Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:48 PM (#4393999)
Frankly, the best 'principled' argument in favor of bailing out Cyprus is that the problems the Cypriot banking sector is having now were caused by the haircut they had to take in the bailout of Greece. So really, bailing out Cyprus now is just an extension of the decision to bail out Greece then.


####, I meant to make this point. But yeah.

Ultimately, part of the problem is people in Germany don't think of Cyprus the way a person in New York probably thinks about California. That's fairly evident in the way the issue is even being discussed. It's not the ECB bailing out an EU bank. It's Germany bailing out a Cypriot bank. That's a potential problem for the long term viability of the EU.


Yes. I sort of think that Cyprus should just say #### it and leave the Euro. Dealing with the Troika is a nightmare where arbitrariness is everywhere, and you yoke your country to the bizarre national German phobia of inflation.
   2268. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:26 PM (#4394017)
If Cyprus tried to leave the Euro, the population would move all their money into German banks. The only way to stop that is capital controls; the government could take advantage of the current bank closure to do it quickly, but it's just the sort of thing that can't really be done quickly. And the banks can't stay closed forever.

The flip side is that if Cyprus accepts the bailout terms, depositors are out 5-10% of their savings, but if they leave the Euro they would lose 60% of their savings to bail out the banks. Recall that the amount of dead money in the banks is greater than the country's GDP.
   2269. bunyon Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:40 PM (#4394024)

Ultimately, part of the problem is people in Germany don't think of Cyprus the way a person in New York probably thinks about California. That's fairly evident in the way the issue is even being discussed. It's not the ECB bailing out an EU bank. It's Germany bailing out a Cypriot bank. That's a potential problem for the long term viability of the EU.


I haven't thought terribly deeply about the EU but it has seemed to me that the EU as currently constituted is similar to the US under the Articles of Confederation and the time has come, as it must, for them either to truly unify under a much more powerful central government or go their separate ways. Unfortunately, it appears that those in power want to centralize power while the citizens want to disband. Seems a recipe for catastrophe.

But it also seems a simplistic analogy. A lot of you appear to have more knowledge and have studied it better than I; how far off base am I and in which direction?
   2270. SteveF Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:59 PM (#4394037)
Reading further on the issue, Merkel doesn't even really have the option of contravening the will of the German people. She couldn't get any bailout through the Bundestag without a haircut on depositors.

Reading up on the Buchheit plan mentioned by tshipman, there is still the issue of recapitalizing the banks. So some form of additional aid would be needed beyond merely converting the accounts in excess of €100,000 into 5/10 year CDs.

Buchheit's track record, however, is pretty impressive when it comes to issues of sovereign debt.
   2271. tshipman Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:06 AM (#4394041)
The flip side is that if Cyprus accepts the bailout terms, depositors are out 5-10% of their savings, but if they leave the Euro they would lose 60% of their savings to bail out the banks.


Are you estimating that is what Cyprus's currency would depreciate to?

I mean, yeah, it sucks, but at least they'd be in control of their currency again. If you accept the bailout, you're out the savings, plus whenever the ECB feels like it, they screw you over again.

Staying in the EU just means that Cyprus will get screwed at some point in the future again.
   2272. SteveF Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:30 AM (#4394046)
The only way to stop that is capital controls; the government could take advantage of the current bank closure to do it quickly, but it's just the sort of thing that can't really be done quickly.


The funniest part about this is the EU is pushing for Cyprus to impose capital controls, yet capital controls violate the treaty that formed the EU (one of the four freedoms -- free movement of capital), as far as I can tell.
   2273. zenbitz Posted: March 22, 2013 at 12:55 AM (#4394052)
If these were capital-M Manic phases, you'd be more likely bursting with energcy despite getting 5-6 minutes rather than hours per night, judging (unfortunately) from my experience. Well, that's an exaggeration, but probably more like 1-2 hours.


Yes, for sure. In fact, one theory I have is that when you go from depressed to "normal" (maybe "above average energy normal") it feels kinda manic.
   2274. Jim Wisinski Posted: March 22, 2013 at 02:21 AM (#4394055)
I love DG and have played for ... nearly 20 years now (not that I am all that good mind you). Fun to get out with friends and the dog and play. Snow golfing this weekend at a pay-for-play 27 hole course in the area. Should be fun in a tiring and cold sort of way. Can't wait for actual spring and warmth.


I love DG and have been playing for 10 years now. Got to a pretty good level, then, effed up my knee a couple years ago (plant leg) and can't really let it go anymore. I'm hoping to give it a good go again this year, but, I'd really like to have some firm ground to throw on... this winter just won't go away.


I've at a little over four years now. Played a ton originally and was pretty close to being able to legimately compete at Advanced level in tourneys but then due to various circumstances barely played for about a year and a half. I've been playing a lot more lately and am generally getting close to previous form but definitely not back there yet. No worries here about snow or anything, worst that happens is an early morning round might start in the mid-30s. I did wade waist deep into a lake once in 37 degree weather to retrieve a disc - wasn't as bad as you might think. I can sympathize with your problem somewhat Griffey, my plant leg has a metal rod in it from a car accident that occurred long before I started playing and I sometimes get pain from that, it definitely affects my driving and causes me to throw with less power and a tendency to throw high due to not being able to finish properly.

Getting random cold snaps down here still, did go biking a couple hours ago for 6.5 miles when it was 47 degrees. With the exception of anything involving outdoor swimming pretty much any sport/activity is year-round in Florida.
   2275. SteveF Posted: March 22, 2013 at 02:30 AM (#4394056)
The funniest part about this is the EU is pushing for Cyprus to impose capital controls, yet capital controls violate the treaty that formed the EU (one of the four freedoms -- free movement of capital), as far as I can tell.


Just on the off chance someone wastes time to look this up, this is completely wrong. The current situation would fall under one of the exceptions for imposing capital controls under the treaty, as common sense would dictate.
   2276. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 08:03 AM (#4394073)
There is no easy solution for Cyprus, soI am probably being too hard on the "Dither and maybe it will go away" factions in Europe, but the whole thing is annoying and a bit like the US under the Articles of Confederation (as suggested up thread).
   2277. Lassus Posted: March 22, 2013 at 08:10 AM (#4394075)
I wonder how much crossover there is between DG and Ultimate, because I've played DG - even on that championship course in Santa Cruz - and all I can think every time is that those discs just fly wrong.
   2278. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 08:31 AM (#4394082)

Are you estimating that is what Cyprus's currency would depreciate to?


60% is the figure from the link I gave, and I don't know how much of that, if any, is depreciation.
   2279. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:01 AM (#4394094)
even on that championship course in Santa Cruz


De Laveaga? I played there once many years ago on a business trip (got a rental car basically just to be able to drive out there and play). It was a fantastic course (though I was alone and had never played, so I spent a fair amount of time wandering trying to find my disc or where the next hole was).

I need to get out there again. When I traveled for business I would generally try to play wherever I went, which makes me sad I don't really travel for work any more.
   2280. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:08 AM (#4394096)
Yes, for sure. In fact, one theory I have is that when you go from depressed to "normal" (maybe "above average energy normal") it feels kinda manic.


Could very well be. I know that when I feel "up" for any length of time, I find myself wondering whether I'm in a normal good mood or verging on a manic episode.
   2281. formerly dp Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:26 AM (#4394104)
One dude guns his bike as he exits the gate, at precisely 5:15 every morning. Just can't get used to it.

I think it is legal to kick that guy in the nuts in most jurisdictions.
There's another biker in the complex who is really careful not to rev the bike much on his way out of the lot. He's not a fan of Loud Guy (or "a$$hole" as my wife and I groggily refer to him when he wakes us up 45 minutes before the alarm), because Loud Guy gives them both a bad rep in the complex. Quiet Guy leaves around 6:30, and practically walks the bike until he hits the main street.
==
DC stuff: I did not realize Morrison killed off Robin until earlier this week-- read the issue, and it was pretty weak writing. I generally love everything Morrison puts his hands on, but Batman, Inc was a bad idea from the start.

Also read the new Swamp Thing/Animal Man books-- they were dark dark dark stuff, but almost gratuitously so, and not particularly clever. I only recently read Moore's Swamp Thing run; it's possible having that fresh in my head set my expectations too high. JLA has been enjoyable. Have not been following the "Before Watchmen" stuff.
   2282. Rants Mulliniks Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:29 AM (#4394106)
My go-to midnight snack is a slice of bread packed into a dense ball.


Yummy!
   2283. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:29 AM (#4394107)
Also read the new Swamp Thing/Animal Man books-- they were dark dark dark stuff, but almost gratuitously so, and not particularly clever. I only recently read Moore's Swamp Thing run; it's possible having that fresh in my head set my expectations too high. JLA has been enjoyable. Have not been following the "Before Watchmen" stuff.


Back in the day I followed all that stuff by reading friends comics and I never got in the habit of buying the darn things. TIme to get more friends to sponge off of I guess (well or start paying), because I miss following the super soap opera (I was more of a Marvel guy back then).
   2284. Rants Mulliniks Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:37 AM (#4394111)
Russia will never bailout Cyprus as long as they stay in the EU. I don't believe the EU will let Cyprus leave, so either they will get a bailout from Germany or default. All the banks have been closed since this started, so as soon as they open, the regular folk with money in the bank will drain their accounts. Is anyone here going to lie and say they wouldn't do the same thing if they were a Cypriot?
   2285. formerly dp Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:38 AM (#4394113)
Back in the day I followed all that stuff by reading friends comics and I never got in the habit of buying the darn things. TIme to get more friends to sponge off of I guess (well or start paying), because I miss following the super soap opera (I was more of a Marvel guy back then).
Tablets make it insanely easy-- the 10-inch versions were virtually engineered to read comics on, and both Marvel and DC have wisely jumped on board digital distribution. I still order a decent amount of graphic novels, but the superhero stuff isn't really worth having to keep around. If you want to see the genre done right, though, do yourself a favor and grab Mark Waid's Irredeemable.
   2286. formerly dp Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:40 AM (#4394114)
To insulate myself from this whole currency mess, I just turn my paychecks immediately into Linden dollars-- way more stable than the Euro.
   2287. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:43 AM (#4394117)
Have not been following the "Before Watchmen" stuff.


I bought Silk Spectre & Minutemen cheap on eBay purely out of devotion to the creators involved (Darwyn Cooke, Amanda Conner) & need to do the same with Dr. Manhattan (Adam Hughes).
   2288. formerly dp Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:46 AM (#4394120)
Any good?
   2289. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:54 AM (#4394128)
No idea -- haven't read them yet. As noted a bit earlier, I've been very apathetic toward comics the last couple of months, as happens every now & then.
   2290. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:06 AM (#4394141)
Staying in the EU just means that Cyprus will get screwed at some point in the future again.


I dislike Germany and the German people abject denial of their role in all this, but at a not insignificant level this was a self-inflicted wound by the Cypriots.

I think the currency union is in a wholly untenable place, it either needs more central economic authority or countries have to go back to their own currencies.
   2291. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4394149)
What JSLF said in 2290. Agreed 100%.
   2292. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:13 AM (#4394154)
Tablets make it insanely easy


But that would mean spending money! I know I am stupid cheap, because it is not like I couldn't afford it.
   2293. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:30 AM (#4394172)

I dislike Germany and the German people abject denial of their role in all this, but at a not insignificant level this was a self-inflicted wound by the Cypriots.


Cyprus didn't behave perfectly, but they did run budget surpluses in the two years before the crisis, they did attempt to crack down on crooked money coming into the country (their anti-money laundering rules are stricter than Germany's) and they did attempt to rein in overinvestment in Cyprus itself (which is why all that money was invested in Greece instead).

A currency union that requires every participant to behave perfectly cannot be stable. In the US, when a bank in Utah or Wisconsin goes under, we don't hear the Fed scolding the habits of Utahns or Wisconsonians in public. Those banks are shut down and resolved in an orderly fashion, and nobody says a peep.
   2294. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:47 AM (#4394184)
In the US, when a bank in Utah or Wisconsin goes under, we don't hear the Fed scolding the habits of Utahns or Wisconsonians in public.


Question. How are banks in Puerto Rico and other non-state US territories handled? I honestly have no idea and that seems to me to be a bit closer to the state of the EU (not exact of course).
   2295. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:59 AM (#4394194)
All the banks have been closed since this started, so as soon as they open, the regular folk with money in the bank will drain their accounts.


The ATMs have been working, however, and have been restocked, so although the banks are closed the accounts are being drained.

Lines outside a Cyprus bank ATM (from The Guardian)
   2296. Dale Sams Posted: March 22, 2013 at 11:01 AM (#4394197)
I was really impressed with DC with 52 and the direction Batman was in, same with the GLC. I loved how they meshed it all into their MMO....and then they did another reset and lost me forever. I understand GL and Batman are supposed to be largely unchanged, but the changes to Superman (IMHO) are not forgivable. And of course what they did with John Constantine. And Amanda Waller.
   2297. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 11:11 AM (#4394203)
Big things are afoot at the Cypriot K ...


Insured deposits -- below the European Union ceiling of 100,000 euros ($129,000) -- would go into a so-called good bank and not sustain any losses, while uninsured deposits would go into the bad bank and be frozen until assets could be sold, said the four officials.

Losses to unsecured creditors, including uninsured depositors, could reach 40%, which has support from the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank.


Here are the capital controls that Cyprus is going to institute


We now have details of the 'capital controls' which Cyprus intends to vote into law (sometime) today, thanks to star blogger @YiannisMouzakis:

It's a remarkable set of restrictions on the usual nuts and bolts of the financial system - particularly given the final point:
•Restrictions in daily withdrawals
•Ban on premature termination of time savings deposits
•Compulsory renewal of all time savings deposits upon maturity
•Conversion of current accounts to time deposits
•Ban or restrictions on non cash transactions
•Restrictions on use of debit, credit or prepaid debit cards
•Ban or restriction on cashing in checks
•Restrictions on domestic interbank transfers or transfers within the same bank
•Restrictions on the interactions/transactions of the public with credit institutions
•Restrictions on movements of capital, payments, transfers
•Any other measure which the Finance Minister or the Governor of Cyprus Central Bank see necessary for reasons of public order and safety
   2298. Ron J2 Posted: March 22, 2013 at 11:18 AM (#4394212)
Tough to say, there are always plotters. Watching. Hating. Eating ice cream and posting nonsense.


It's not possible to plot while eating ice cream.
   2299. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 22, 2013 at 11:23 AM (#4394215)
You can plot to eat more ice cream.
   2300. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 22, 2013 at 11:31 AM (#4394223)
In the US, when a bank in Utah or Wisconsin goes under, we don't hear the Fed scolding the habits of Utahns or Wisconsonians in public. Those banks are shut down and resolved in an orderly fashion, and nobody says a peep.


No but Southern GOPer types screamed bloody murder about bailing out the domestic auto industry... while having no qualms whatsoever with respect to tax breaks and public leases given to energy companies in their states...

It's because for whatever reason banks are not seen as regional (even though there are regional banks) and the public has not seen bank failures are a uniquely regional issue- if banks in New England were failing at a far higher rate than in Texas/Arix/Okla, I'm sure you'd hear plenty of squawking from Texans and whatnot.



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