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Thursday, February 28, 2013

[OTP - March] Scott wants money for spring training teams

While working at the Detroit Tigers’ spring facility in Lakeland, Gov. Rick Scott announced today he will ask the Florida Legislature to set aside $5 million a year for projects specifically aimed at improving the Major League Baseball training facilities in the state.

“It’s my job as governor to make sure Florida remains the number one destination for spring training and that is why we will work to provide $5 million annually to only be used for spring training facilities,” Scott said in a statement that was released while Scott was participating in one of his “work days” with the Tigers at Joker Marchant Stadium in Lakeland.

Tripon Posted: February 28, 2013 at 02:05 PM | 2909 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baseball, florida, ot, politics, spring training

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   2701. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:10 AM (#4396684)
I actually feel bad for you and find this point of view very unfortunate. To toss these two 16 year old boys overboard for the rest of their lives, to give up on them, to deem them so evil that even after they pay their punishment and serve their time and learn their lesson there is no hope for them is a fairly abhorrent attitude. I truly expected more from you.

And _I_ am called a robot with no emotion?

EDIT: Oh, I guess I referred to your statement as having been "revised." Fine. I withdraw that. But it's not like your 2601 is unfairly read (absent clarification) as you simply having nothing to offer these two 16 year old criminals, so upon reading it I basically put you with Snapper.


Ray, I never said they were irredeemable. I said they may very well redeem their souls, and who knows, they may make something of their lives, especially given the laughably light sentence they got. They'll be on the streets, at the absolute latest, in 4 and 5 years. More likely, 1 and 2.

What I said is I don't care about them redeeming their lives. If they do, good for them. If they don't it's on them. Society owes them nothing, and should only be interested in enforcing justice.

The idea that society has some moral responsibility towards evil doers, is repellent to me. There are millions of teenagers out there who haven't committed vicious crimes, who are leading tough lives. Focus your empathy and compassion on them.
   2702. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:13 AM (#4396688)
1: You didn't watch it


Stipulated.


Then WTF are you talking about?

I didn't watch it, either. In a related development, I'm not delivering pronouncements on whether it was or wasn't this, that or the other.

What a concept!
   2703. Lassus Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:15 AM (#4396691)
and people (including me) figure that it's pointless to expect that he or guys like him would have behaved differently in similar circumstances,

This is the "boys will be boys" thing that Sam was fervently denying.


so people (including me) want to change the circumstances for the future in an attempt to prevent future rapes, because people (including me) feel that there is a good chance he wouldn't have behaved that way in different circumstances.

And yet any OTHER method of preventing further rapes focusing on those committing the rapes should be met with scorn.


My GF at 14 got passed out walking and not-walking dead drunk at a high school dance. Her friends and acquaintences, all male, and all 14-17, well, they.... they... this is just hard to talk about... They - gulp - called her parents and brother to have them pick her up. This scenario has played out an unbelievable number of times throughout the American experience - that scenario is far more common than rape by a great degree. Saying that the default is rape, so there is no point is focusing on the people and gender committing basically all the rape, is completely nonsensical.
   2704. formerly dp Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:17 AM (#4396696)
I am amused that by your own admission, education is apparently useless when it comes to impacting human behavior.
Not if you're educating them with the wrong "facts". Your presumption to know better than people who study this stuff for a living is predictable, but also misguided.
Nothing in any of that documentation answered my questions.
Your inability to read doesn't change the contents of the studies. Numbers from the Mass study: "on college campuses 46% of individuals chose not to disclose their sexual victimization to law enforcement." The numbers from the military are worse-- only 13% of all sexual assaults are reported. But you'll handwave away, and continue to insist that victims' actions are the cause of victims' sexual assault, and that a culture where victim actions are made the focus of public discourse does not contribute to the problem of underreporting. Also predictable, also ugly. Remember: if rapes are underreported, then they're underprosecuted as well. Which means there are more rapey dudes running around being rapey.

#2664 could have been the last word on the subject-- a reminder of how the tone of this discussion comes across to those not participating in it-- but that same point has been made and ignored many times, so why stop now.
   2705. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:17 AM (#4396697)
My GF at 14 got passed out walking and not-walking dead drunk at a high school dance. Her friends and acquaintences, all male, and all 14-17, well, they.... they... this is just hard to talk about... They - gulp - called her parents and brother to have them pick her up. This scenario has played out an unbelievable number of times throughout the American experience. Saying that the default is rape so there is no point is focusing on the people and gender committing basically all the rape is nonsensica.

This.

It's amazing that some don't view the behavior by the criminals here as hugely aberrant. Normal people don't do what they did, regardless of the opportunity. Normal people have some scintilla of compassion for a passed out teenage girl.
   2706. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:18 AM (#4396698)
Replace "dickheads on internet message boards" with "the criminal justice system" and not a thing about the substance and import of the words changes. Thus, as noted, the criminal justice system fits snugly within the prevailing definition of the "rape culture."


As do a number of other things. But by all means, let's isolate it to random dickheads on message boards. Yeah, that's the reason rape victims don't come forward (and it's not even in evidence anyway that they don't come forward more than victims of other crimes don't come forward, but whatever).
   2707. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4396702)

According to reports by several newspapers, Alameda County, in the San Francisco Bay Area, is paying its County Administrator Susan Muranishi, north of $400,000—for life. This includes a generous base salary of $301,000, plus taxpayer-funded deferred pension plans paid for by the county.

The pension accounts are set by a formula that multiplies years of service by 2 to 3 percent of the top salary to calculate the benefit, the San Jose Mercury News reports. With 38 years of service under her belt, the top Alameda official, along with two top county executives, benefit lavishly.

The publication notes, “Muranishi, for example, was the highest-paid county administrator in the Bay Area, with $422,268 in salary last year. In addition, she received $137,196 toward her pension and another $46,500 dumped into a pair of deferred compensation accounts.” Most pension plans require the employee to pay in—but not in this case.

Even without the extra pension plans, Muranishi’s base salary alone stands out. Her salary is more than the rate for similar positions in San Francisco ($153,000), Chicago ($128,000) and New York City ($152,000).

President Barack Obama’s base salary, by the way, is $400,000.

Pensions are determined by the board of supervisors, but officials sign up for the special accounts.

A column from the San Francisco Chronicle asserts that Muranishi’s salary includes “$24,000, plus change, in ‘equity pay’ to guarantee that she makes at least 10 percent more than anyone else in the county. About $54,000 a year in ‘longevity’ pay for having stayed with the county for more than 30 years; an annual performance bonus of $24,000; and another $9,000 a year for serving on the county’s three-member Surplus Property Authority, an ad hoc committee of the Board of Supervisors that oversees the sale of excess land.” She also gets a $8,292 yearly car allowance.

It's not bad, considering that Alameda County is facing budget deficits and residents have a per capita income of $34,937, according to the latest figures from the U.S. Census Bureau.
   2708. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:22 AM (#4396703)
As do a number of other things. But by all means, let's isolate it to random dickheads on message boards. Yeah, that's the reason rape victims don't come forward (and it's not even in evidence anyway that they don't come forward more than victims of other crimes don't come forward, but whatever).

Maybe the reason rape victims don't come forward is pathetically light sentences?

If the punishment is going to be a joke, why put yourself through the trauma of testifying, and face ridicule and threats from your community?
   2709. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:28 AM (#4396712)
It's amazing that some don't view the behavior by the criminals here as hugely aberrant.


It's almost enough to make one wonder about their (&/or their acquaintances') own behavior under comparable circumstances back in the day, isn't it?

Almost.
   2710. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:34 AM (#4396723)
Ray, I never said they were irredeemable. I said they may very well redeem their souls, and who knows, they may make something of their lives, especially given the laughably light sentence they got. They'll be on the streets, at the absolute latest, in 4 and 5 years. More likely, 1 and 2.

What I said is I don't care about them redeeming their lives. If they do, good for them. If they don't it's on them.


So... you're offering them the chance for redemption not in this life, but in the next one, if there is one. I know you may find that as something valuable, but to me it's meaningless.

Society owes them nothing, and should only be interested in enforcing justice.


The fact remains that they will be released back into society, so society's interest is that they not rape again.


   2711. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:38 AM (#4396728)
and people (including me) figure that it's pointless to expect that he or guys like him would have behaved differently in similar circumstances,

This is the "boys will be boys" thing that Sam was fervently denying.


Huh? Now who's lying? I understand "boys will be boys" to be something that excuses the rape. I have not excused the rape, nowhere, no how. I didn't say "Hey, boys will rape, so what's the big deal?" I said I am assuming _this_ boy, or others like him, will rape in similar circumstances. That in no way excuses anything; it assumes behavior on the part of this and other boys like him in an effort to protect the victims of said behavior in the future.

And yet any OTHER method of preventing further rapes focusing on those committing the rapes should be met with scorn.


I didn't meet any OTHER methods with scorn, except for the method that lies to young women by withholding material information from them.

   2712. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:40 AM (#4396731)
This.

It's amazing that some don't view the behavior by the criminals here as hugely aberrant. Normal people don't do what they did, regardless of the opportunity. Normal people have some scintilla of compassion for a passed out teenage girl.


Yes. And? These boys were not normal. That is the entire freaking point, that young women should be taught how to guard against boys who aren't normal.
   2713. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:41 AM (#4396733)
It's almost enough to make one wonder about their (&/or their acquaintances') own behavior under comparable circumstances back in the day, isn't it?

Almost.


And so by actively missing the point we're back to "quite possibly, the folks here are rapists themselves." Wonderful.
   2714. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4396738)
And so by actively missing the point we're back to "quite possibly, the folks here are rapists themselves." Wonderful.

Accusing people they disagree with of being rapists.

You stay classy, leftists.
   2715. formerly dp Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4396743)
That is the entire freaking point, that young women should be taught how to guard against boys who aren't normal.

Courtesy of The Internet:

researchers found that many rape survivors may not tell anyone about their experiences if they were under the influence of alcohol or drugs at the time of the incident (Pitts & Schwartz, 1993). These women may remain hidden rape victims because of self-blame due to perceptions that women are somehow more culpable for their victimization if they have consumed alcohol.
If you're trying to actually reduce the incidence of rape, publicly shaming victim behavior is counterproductive.
   2716. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4396749)
If you're trying to actually reduce the incidence of rape, publicly shaming victim behavior is counterproductive.

Everyone gets that this is your argument. You also said, more than once, that it's part of the "rape culture."

You also may want to consult a dictionary and look up "may."
   2717. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:55 AM (#4396753)
Accusing people they disagree with of being rapists.


Rapists, racists, bigots... depending on what the issue is. Someone should draft up a flowchart for this.

DOES THE ISSUE HAVE TO DO WITH RACE?
YES--> CALL THE PERSON A RACIST
NO--> DOES THE ISSUE HAVE TO DO WITH RAPE?
YES--> CALL THE PERSON A RAPIST
NO--> DOES THE ISSUE HAVE TO DO WITH GAY MARRIAGE OR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?
YES--> CALL THE PERSON A BIGOT


You stay classy, leftists.[ /quote]

They always do.
   2718. formerly dp Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:55 AM (#4396754)
You also may want to consult a dictionary and look up "may."
I understand it quite well in the context that the authors use it. Do you?
   2719. The Good Face Posted: March 26, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4396758)
I am amused that by your own admission, education is apparently useless when it comes to impacting human behavior.

Not if you're educating them with the wrong "facts". Your presumption to know better than people who study this stuff for a living is predictable, but also misguided.


Getting blackout drunk leaves a person vulnerable in a way that tipsy or sober people are not vulnerable. That is a fact. No scare quotes necessary. And no amount of argument from "authority" can change that fact.

Numbers from the Mass study: "on college campuses 46% of individuals chose not to disclose their sexual victimization to law enforcement."


Yes, I read that. Since these events were never reported to law enforcement, how do we know a rape took place? I realize that for an activist, all it takes is a woman saying she was raped, but thinking people want evidence, and there isn't any.

But you'll handwave away, and continue to insist that victims' actions are the cause of victims' sexual assault, and that a culture where victim actions are made the focus of public discourse does not contribute to the problem of underreporting.


Strawman. A victim's responsibility can be additive, but can never subtract responsibility from the perpetrators. But certain behaviors can increase risk factors, and political wishcasting doesn't change that underlying reality.
   2720. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4396762)
What kind of job is Muranishi doing? Is she a better-than-average administrator?
   2721. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4396763)
So... you're offering them the chance for redemption not in this life, but in the next one, if there is one. I know you may find that as something valuable, but to me it's meaningless.

Ray, are you deliberately misreading me? I said they should have a chance to redeem themselves in this life, but it's on them, not society to make it happen, and I don't much care if it does.

The fact remains that they will be released back into society, so society's interest is that they not rape again.

So you think treating rapists nicely will make them less likely to rape again? That flies in the face of most of what we general assume about incentives.

I would think if they were "breaking rocks in the hot sun" 12 hours a day, six days a week, for 5 years, that might encourage them not to rape again, and revisit the pen.

Yes. And? These boys were not normal. That is the entire freaking point, that young women should be taught how to guard against boys who aren't normal.

I've never argued against you on that point.
   2722. Ron J2 Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:02 PM (#4396764)
it's why I think the language about blackout drinking is so counterproductive. What percent of rapes would be eliminated if absolutely no women ever drank to the extent that they blacked out? The fact of the matter is that this is a relatively uncommon scenario.


I've had the extreme pleasure of dealing with the aftermath of teen parties gone bad on a couple of occasions. In one case I had the joy of getting a phone call that basically went, there's an unconscious girl in the bath tub and we're all wasted. Can you deal with it.

The point here being that the consequences to the girl (she ended up in the hospital) were plenty bad enough, but as best I can tell at no point was she in any danger of being raped.

And there's a public awareness campaign out there that features a pretty girl lying on the floor in the bathroom with a friend at the door saying, 'you OK in there?"

It strikes me that to the extent that anything is likely to be effective (given that we're talking about teen. God knows I was a moron at that age), "drink too much and you'll get really, really sick" is likely to be more effective than "drink too much and you'll get really, really sick -- and you just might get raped". From what I know about teen they'll see the last bit as hyperbole and feel free to ignore the entire message.
   2723. formerly dp Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4396766)
Yes, I read that. Since these events were never reported to law enforcement, how do we know a rape took place? I realize that for an activist, all it takes is a woman saying she was raped, but thinking people want evidence, and there isn't any.
They were treated at hospitals.
   2724. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:06 PM (#4396772)
Yes, I read that. Since these events were never reported to law enforcement, how do we know a rape took place?


Because activists have never encountered a false rape claim.

I wish I were being sarcastic, as Andy was, but I'm not. This is sincerely what they believe. One data point is the statements of Tara Levicy, the SANE nurse who first examined Crystal Mangum in the Duke LAX case:

Two people were vital in sustaining a case with no evidence and a complaining witness utterly lacking in credibility for Nifong to exploit. After the DA took over the case, the duo did everything possible to help him keep the charges alive.

The first was Tara Levicy, the sexual assault (SANE) nurse who wrote up Mangum’s Duke Hospital report. A women’s studies major in college, Levicy worked for several years for a Maine company that ran nature tours. She then changed careers, got a nursing degree through an accelerated program for liberal arts majors, and moved to Durham. Eight months later, she was a SANE trainee.

Levicy later told a defense attorney that she had never encountered a woman who lied about rape. She came across as an ideologue. And she applied her women-don’t-lie ideology to the lacrosse case regardless of the evidence.

Link.
   2725. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:11 PM (#4396780)
Accusing people they disagree with of being rapists.


Rapists? I thought we were talking juvenile delinquents, at your own insistence.

I knew a few of those (wasn't one myself, mainly because I rarely got out; holing up in one's bedroom reading science fiction tends not to bring one to the attention of the authorities); I assume most of us did.
   2726. Ron J2 Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4396782)
I'm more disturbed by the numerous people around the girl who failed to intervene on her behalf while the act was being committed


Yeah this has disturbed me too. I'd have expected that the mere presence of witnesses would have stopped things cold. I know in my youth the received wisdom was that as long as the girls stuck with their friends nothing bad was likely to happen.

And yes, I get the point that it's a bad idea to leave your safety in the hands of others. Even so, the risk should have been really low.


   2727. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4396783)
One of the factors inhibiting reporting cited by the MASS study was the "desire to avoid using the term 'rape.'"(*) In other words, insisting that what a woman experienced was "rape" -- and its blood relative "rape is rape" -- inhibits reporting.

The Ohio rape statute -- a charter member and cornerstone of the "rape culture."

(*) Page 12.
   2728. Lassus Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4396785)
" I said I am assuming _this_ boy, or others like him, will rape in similar circumstances. [/em

I misunderstood this to mean the average boy confronted with a dead drunk girl at a party. I retract what I wrote in error.
   2729. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4396788)
Wow. I want to watch that, but then again I don't.


Here you go

I might add that the video seems to depict WWII/Korean War era military tactics... which didn't work too well for the Norks in the first go-around (basically the NK military was all but annihilated before China bailed them out)

Also the destruction of a US Carrier is incredibly ineptly done from an FX POV(explosions superimposed over fade-out of carrier- but carrier never completely fades out...)
   2730. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4396790)
Yeah this has disturbed me too. I'd have expected that the mere presence of witnesses would have stopped things cold. I know in my youth the received wisdom was that as long as the girls stuck with their friends nothing bad was likely to happen.


It has disturbed me also. The only thing I can figure is that they didn't understand it was wrong. That seems far-fetched to me, but I can't think of another explanation (*). Everyone in this collection of high schoolers happens to be horrible people? I think it's more likely that society has changed in ways that have stripped young people of clear understandings of what is right and wrong.

I think. I mean, even that seems far-fetched. I am at a loss to explain it.

(*) I can assume that a couple of people in the group were too afraid to step up and say something, but all of the people in the group?
   2731. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4396791)
Lassus, please fix the italics...
   2732. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:34 PM (#4396803)
Because activists have never encountered a false rape claim.


Anecdotal evidence, and all that: I've never known anyone who was falsely accused of rape, but I've known at least three women who were raped but didn't report it. One was raped by a friend (who admitted the rape to his parents) after falling asleep during a movie marathon, another was molested as a child by her grandfather, and the third was a stereotypical "forcible rape" by a masked assailant.
   2733. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:36 PM (#4396806)
It has disturbed me also. The only thing I can figure is that they didn't understand it was wrong. That seems far-fetched to me, but I can't think of another explanation (*).


The boys who did it knew that it was wrong but didn't care, and the observers didn't interfere because of the bystander effect.
   2734. Lassus Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM (#4396807)


whoops, fixed, sorry.

You do realize anyone can do that, right, with a close tag thing? FYI
   2735. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4396808)
With Lassus, we see, public shaming does work.
   2736. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:41 PM (#4396812)
another was molested as a child by her grandfather,


Ugh. My first wife had that happen to her. She later learned that the same thing had befallen her two younger sisters.

They didn't tell their dad (the grandfather's son) until they were in their 20s, AFAIK.
   2737. Ron J2 Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4396813)
#2735 I'm holding out for a branded /em on his forehead.
   2738. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4396816)
They didn't tell their dad (the grandfather's son) until they were in their 20s, AFAIK.


And these late reportings of incidents occurring decades ago were all because of random dudes posting on the internet.
   2739. Lassus Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:48 PM (#4396819)
Duke LAX


I just figured I'd keep repeating it. Maybe they'll show up, like Candyman.
   2740. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:49 PM (#4396820)
Actually, I think it was out of consideration for their grandmother. (Though she would've been dead about 4 years by the time that, AFAIK, the sisters told their dad.)
   2741. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:51 PM (#4396822)
Actually, I think it was out of consideration for their grandmother. But still.


You mean... there were factors at play other than The Rape Culture?

That is shocking.
   2742. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:52 PM (#4396823)
And here is the Raybot we all know & ... know.
   2743. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4396825)
Though in rural SW Arkansas in the '60s, one could probably make the argument for the existence of The Incest Culture.
   2744. The Good Face Posted: March 26, 2013 at 01:02 PM (#4396828)
Yes, I read that. Since these events were never reported to law enforcement, how do we know a rape took place? I realize that for an activist, all it takes is a woman saying she was raped, but thinking people want evidence, and there isn't any.

They were treated at hospitals.


They were treated by medical professionals, not necessarily hospitals. Regardless, that's hardly compelling evidence that a rape took place. For all we know, most of them were showing up at the campus clinic to get some morning-after pills or antibiotics to clear up their chlamydia. There's still no evidence other than one person's say-so.
   2745. Lassus Posted: March 26, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4396831)
You mean... there were factors at play other than The Rape Culture? That is shocking.

Ray knows Jeter's a great fielder. He saw him jump into the stands. All other data is invalid.
   2746. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 26, 2013 at 01:18 PM (#4396835)
North Korea is an amusing "Villain" (In the movie sense). I mean Hollywood needs a villain, the Nazis are too old, communists are not relevent (USSR) or too big an audience to piss off (China), gangsters work (especially scary foreign ones), but they don't apply to every movie, so we are left with North Korea, which is just not very scary, and scary Islamists (which has gotton old and more than a little racist/religionist? very quickly).

The movie should collectively come up with an open sourced nation/villain conspiracy to use across movies and even books. Sort of like comic book universes do where they invent nations and conspiricies that end up getting used across multiple book lines.

I think a nation in South America founded by Nazi refugees and surviving on drug money would be ideal (though perhaps a bit stale).
   2747. Publius Publicola Posted: March 26, 2013 at 01:21 PM (#4396836)
What I said is I don't care about them redeeming their lives. If they do, good for them. If they don't it's on them. Society owes them nothing, and should only be interested in enforcing justice.


snapper, without taking sides either way, this statement is antithetical to Christianity.
   2748. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4396839)
Ugh. My first wife had that happen to her. She later learned that the same thing had befallen her two younger sisters.

They didn't tell their dad (the grandfather's son) until they were in their 20s, AFAIK.


My friend's story is even worse than that. Well, maybe. Her mother knew (because my friend told her), and did nothing, because the grandfather had money and she wanted to get her hands on it when he died.

He ended up leaving my friend like $20k when he died, which the mother took and frittered away.
   2749. Publius Publicola Posted: March 26, 2013 at 01:28 PM (#4396843)
With Lassus, we see, public shaming does work.


2734. Lassus Posted: March 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM (#4396807)


whoops, fixed, sorry.

You do realize anyone can do that, right, with a close tag thing? FYI


But then he passes the buck. Some people you just can't...
   2750. Publius Publicola Posted: March 26, 2013 at 01:39 PM (#4396857)
I might add that the video seems to depict WWII/Korean War era military tactics..


I like the part where they charge uphill across an open field without artillery, air or armored support. One attack helicopter would have annihilated the entire battalion.
   2751. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 02:11 PM (#4396888)
I have no idea what's behind formerly dp's claim that the "problem" is "notorious" on college campuses. (See post 2678). The very MASS study he quotes notes that, over the 11-year period studied, a mere 4% (*) of incidents prompting a visit to a "medical provider" and reported as sexual assaults were on college campuses and not all of those involved college students.

(*) 446 of 10,895. Of the 446, 123 were "forced sexual acts other than rape (e.g. forced fondling, kissing, or touching)" and 18 instances of attempted rape.
   2752. rr Posted: March 26, 2013 at 02:19 PM (#4396898)
The villain in the new Gerard Butler action flick Olympus Has Fallen (basically Die Hard in the White House) is a Korean (I assume North).
   2753. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4396917)
The villain in the new Gerard Butler action flick Olympus Has Fallen (basically Die Hard in the White House) is a Korean (I assume North).


Olympus was a sillier and more unrealistic version of Die Hard. The movie has to be seen for this to be believed.
   2754. Greg K Posted: March 26, 2013 at 02:39 PM (#4396921)
Olympus was a sillier and more unrealistic version of Die Hard. The movie has to be seen for this to be believed.

Plus I imagine it doesn't have Alan Rickman.

Though I suppose playing a Korean may be a stretch, even for a man of Rickman's talents.
   2755. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4396922)
To expand on 2751: Of the 285 incidents that the Mass. report refers to as "rapes" on college campuses between 2000 and 2011 (*), 178 were reported to campus police. So the number of unreported rapes was 107. This is a ceiling figure, as the report can't account for reports to non-campus police but not campus police.

So, at most, we have 9 unreported rapes per year on Massachusetts college campuses according to the very report that was trotted out with such fanfare. Now that's too many, one's too many. But a "notorious problem"?

Ummm, no.

(*) 83% of which involved victims between 18 and 21 years old.
   2756. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 26, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4396932)
Olympus was a sillier and more unrealistic version of Die Hard. The movie has to be seen for this to be believed.


The TV commercials have been flying lately, and wow, does this look stoopid


and apparently there's ANOTHER terrorists take the WH movie coming out later this year too.


(Olympus has Fallen = Deep Impact)

(White House Down = Armageddon)

and (Morgan Freeman = Morgan Freeman)
   2757. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 26, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4396941)
and (Morgan Freeman = Morgan Freeman)


Honestly if you are a bad but big budget movie, why wouldn't you try to get Freeman? He adds instant gravitas to any role/movie he is in. But yeah Olympus had fallen looks terrible and I have no intention in seeing it (well maybe Netflix someday). And I loved Die Hard (maybe the best action movie ever made), and generally like the DH clones well enough.

Edit: Misc typos.
   2758. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4396950)

snapper, without taking sides either way, this statement is antithetical to Christianity.


Antithetical, no.

Responsibility for behavior and salvation in Christianity is purely individual. Society has no responsibility for individual behavior.

We are called to individual charity. But we can't be charitable towards everyone. So we pick and choose who we give charity to. That's our personal decision.

Are there better Christians than me who would have charity for these creeps, yes. I'm not that good a person.
   2759. The District Attorney Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:13 PM (#4396954)
The villain in the new Gerard Butler action flick Olympus Has Fallen (basically Die Hard in the White House) is a Korean (I assume North).
Yes. As Mouse says, it would be more logical to speculate China launching a meaningful offensive against the US, but they're too big to piss off. There was a kerfuffle a little while back where a video game called Homefront was originally intended to depict a Chinese invasion, but the Chinese were very unhappy and so everything got changed to North Korea.

(And, of course, it's not merely a market of 1.3 billion Chinese vs. a market of 25 million North Koreans, it's 1.3 billion versus zero, since they weren't going to show your movie in North Korea anyway.)

(That being said, I'm sure our diplomats would rather not have the North Koreans annoyed either -- one wonders if this is connected -- but I suppose that's not a movie studio's problem.)

Re: the movie itself: I feel like I never to see another movie again whose appeal is the mock destruction of famous landmarks. It does elicit some bad 9/11 feelings in me, which would be fine, except for the fact that it doesn't elicit outrage, shock, excitement or anything interesting to make up for it. They really can't do anything more shocking than what actually happened.
   2760. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4396957)
I have no idea what's behind formerly dp's claim that the "problem" is "notorious" on college campuses. (See post 2678). The very MASS study he quotes notes that, over the 11-year period studied, a mere 4% (*) of incidents prompting a visit to a "medical provider" and reported as sexual assaults were on college campuses and not all of those involved college students.

(*) 446 of 10,895. Of the 446, 123 were "forced sexual acts other than rape (e.g. forced fondling, kissing, or touching)" and 18 instances of attempted rape.


I guess someone ran out of space or something, because he left out the last three words of that sentence. He didn't even have enough room to add "...." in order to indicate that there were more words at the end.

But that sentence didn't end there. There was no period at the end of that excerpt. Here's the full sentence:

Of the 446 reported cases of sexual victimization at a campus, there were 123 sexual
acts other than rape, 18 instances of attempted rape, and 285 rapes.


I guess maybe those 285 rapes were just being sarcastic.
   2761. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:20 PM (#4396959)
I guess maybe those 285 rapes were just being sarcastic.

Andy, please try to follow along. More was written on this downthread, but the 285 is the 446 less the other two categories.

No one was hiding anything.

Nice try, though.

Now address the fewer than ten unreported rapes per year over 12 years in a state with a lot of college students and how that possibly represents a "notorious problem."
   2762. Greg K Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4396970)
Who was the enemy in the recent Red Dawn re-make?
   2763. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4396971)
And while you're at it, you might also address how the four percent of sexual crimes at college campuses get such outsized attention -- rhetorical and otherwise -- as compared with the numbers of similar crimes off-campus that dwarf them.

Could it be that the victims on college campuses are primarily white educated liberals? Or could it be that leftists/modern liberals obsess over their own bugaboos, to the exclusion of the entire world around them, more than Rain Man trying to get a flight on Qantas Air? (Evidence: This entire thread and a bunch of other threads.)
   2764. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4396973)
Who was the enemy in the recent Red Dawn re-make?


North Korea.
   2765. Greg K Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4396976)
Speaking of which, I recall seeing a trailer in the past couple years set in Nazi-occupied Wales (a counter-factual period piece obviously). Does anyone recall off-hand what its name might be?
   2766. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4396977)
I guess maybe those 285 rapes were just being sarcastic.

Andy, please try to follow along. More was written on this downthread, but the 285 is the 446 less the other two categories.

No one was hiding anything.


Yeah, I guess it would have been too much trouble to include those last three words, just to put your excerpt in a bit of perspective.

Now address the fewer than ten unreported rapes per year over 12 years in a state with a lot of college students and how that possibly represents a "notorious problem."

That's between you and dp, but if you're as selective in interpreting the rest of the data in that report as you are about quoting the words in that sentence above, it's not exactly something to induce confidence in your interpretations of anything that's in the rest of it.
   2767. Greg K Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4396980)
Google wins the race:

It was Resistance
   2768. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4396983)
college campuses are primarily white educated liberals


Odd, educated people in college. How strange. And yes educated people tend to more liberal (a huge strike against liberalism). It is a conspiracy, clearly. Have you a newsletter, and might I subscribe?

Or could it be that leftists/modern liberals obsess


Says the guy who went for how many posts about how terribly important it was that some state other than the one the crime occured in defined things differently? Yeah that is not obsessive at all.
   2769. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4396985)

That's between you and dp, but if you're as selective in interpreting the rest of the data in that report as you are about quoting the words in that sentence above, it's not exactly something to induce confidence in your interpretations of anything that's in the rest of it.


Nice try.
   2770. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:51 PM (#4396993)
Right, I'm going to go back to read a bunch of posts I didn't read in the first place, then read the three provided links in their entirety, just so that I can make a comment about something I never commented on to begin with, only to have you omit half of what I've said and misrepresent the other half. I may spend more time here than a sane person ever should, but I'm not that crazy.
   2771. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4397004)
The TV commercials have been flying lately, and wow, does this look stoopid


The President in the movie makes a series of galactically stupid decisions that cost a great many people their lives. He is also portrayed as an utter weakling. The President is played by Aaron Eckhart, a middle aged white guy.

I am trying to imagine whether Hollywood would ever produce a movie with a stupid/weak black president.
   2772. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:01 PM (#4397007)
.
   2773. Greg K Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:11 PM (#4397013)
I am trying to imagine whether Hollywood would ever produce a movie with a stupid/weak black president.

The black president in Idiocracy was pretty stupid. But then again, everyone in that movie was...that was kind of the point.
   2774. Lassus Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4397026)
The President is played by Aaron Eckhart, a middle aged white guy.

How unrepresentative!
   2775. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:27 PM (#4397029)
Well, it does seem kind of out of place now to cast a white guy as president, now that we have a black president.
   2776. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:29 PM (#4397034)
Google wins the race:

It was Resistance


Sounds interesting. Not yet available from Netflix, I see. Dammit!

In a somewhat similar vein, have you ever seen It Happened Here, from 1965? Pretty good.
   2777. Greg K Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4397041)
In a somewhat similar vein, have you ever seen It Happened Here, from 1965? Pretty good.

No, looks interesting.

Certainly can't be any worse than Jackboots on Whitehall.

(same Nazi invasion plot, but with clay-mation and the over-the-top Scottish stereotypes the English so love)

EDIT: I may not have my lingo down...it's possible it is stop-motion, not clay-mation
   2778. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:38 PM (#4397046)
Stop-motion=Ray Harryhausen movies

Clay-mation=Gumby & Pokey
   2779. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:43 PM (#4397050)
Breaking... MCOA has posted on the site within the hour so I see that his "I may never talk to you horrible people again, I am serious" threat lasted all of five days.
   2780. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:45 PM (#4397054)
Well, 5 days strikes me as a reasonable interval for letting all the accumulated toxins drain out, or whatever.
   2781. Greg K Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4397056)
Unfortunately due to my deficient popular culture milieu, neither of those help me much.

I'd have gone with the Delgados music video for The Weaker Argument Defeats the Stronger and Creature Comforts as examples.
   2782. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4397058)
Breaking... MCOA has posted on the site within the hour so I see that his "I may never talk to you horrible people again, I am serious" threat lasted all of five days.

You are too much for me, BBTF, you sonofawhoresonbitch!! I wish I knew how to quit you ....
   2783. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4397061)
Well, 5 days strikes me as a reasonable interval for letting all the accumulated toxins drain out, or whatever.


A good leeching would do wonders to purge the ill-humours ...
   2784. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4397062)
I'd have gone with the Delgados music video for The Weaker Argument Defeats the Stronger and Creature Comforts as examples.


Clay-mation, then.
   2785. Morty Causa Posted: March 26, 2013 at 04:57 PM (#4397070)
Of the 446 reported cases of sexual victimization at a campus, there were 123 sexual
acts other than rape, 18 instances of attempted rape, and 285 rapes.



I guess maybe those 285 rapes were just being sarcastic.

Just because someone feels they've been rape doesn't make it rape--and that applies to any crime.

The term "rape" is used to represent acts that fall within a pretty wide ambit, both legally and informally, but especially in the lay sense. I would like to know more specifics of those 285 rapes. How many of those women were beaten and forced to submit to sex? How many were threatened with lethal force? How many were slipped date rape drugs? How many had sex drunk, ostensibly willing, then felt bad about it later, so decided that was rape? How many didn't want to have sex with a partner they were growing weary of but weren't quite willing to cut their losses yet and submitted to his urgency, then felt that they had been unfairly coaxed or subjected to duress, and that was rape. The variations are extensive and traverse a continuum from the very ambiguous and indeterminable to the violently incontrovertible. There's a reason the law historically has not wanted to get involved in this unless it was clear cut and violent. Relations between the sexes can get awfully complicated and seem even more so to a third-party decider of the issue.
   2786. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 05:01 PM (#4397078)
Relations between the3 sexes


I know I've been out of circulation for awhile, but I didn't realize this had happened.

The term "rape" is used to represent acts that fall within a pretty wide ambit or continuum, both legally and informally, but especially in the lay sense.


Well ... yeah.
   2787. Greg K Posted: March 26, 2013 at 05:03 PM (#4397081)
I know I've been out of circulation for awhile, but I didn't realize this had happened.

Must have been too busy with your Gumby cartoons. You're missing quite a party, man.
   2788. Morty Causa Posted: March 26, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4397083)
Breaking... MCOA has posted on the site within the hour so I see that his "I may never talk to you horrible people again, I am serious" threat lasted all of five days.

You are too much for me, BBTF, you sonofawhoresonbitch!! I wish I knew how to quit you


He's of the curse me, beat me, make me write hot checks coterie of victimology.
   2789. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 26, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4397084)
Re: the movie itself: I feel like I never to see another movie again whose appeal is the mock destruction of famous landmarks.


I heard the phrase, "disaster porn" after 2012 came out.

These Bay/Emmerich movies are what Irwin Allen would have done had he the $ and the FX technology...
   2790. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 26, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4397095)
Breaking... MCOA has posted on the site within the hour so I see that his "I may never talk to you horrible people again, I am serious" threat lasted all of five days.


five days?, the last time I swore off a thread for good I broke down after 5 hours...

   2791. Lassus Posted: March 26, 2013 at 05:33 PM (#4397103)
   2792. Lassus Posted: March 26, 2013 at 05:37 PM (#4397104)
I heard the phrase, "disaster porn" after 2012 came out.

Obligatory.
   2793. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 06:26 PM (#4397147)
Gentlemen, gentlemen ... can't we all just get along? Or at least join together in the bonhomie of schadenfreude and laugh at Donald Trump???


LONDON (Reuters) - Eleven giant wind turbines are to be built off the east coast of Scotland, the government announced on Tuesday, a move that has infuriated U.S. billionaire Donald Trump who says they will spoil the view from his nearby state-of-the-art golf course.

Trump completed the first phase of his 750 million pound course at Menie near Aberdeen in 2010 after a fierce battle with conservationists who accused him of ruining a pristine coastal site.

The 66-year-old property magnate has long been railing against plans for what he calls the "huge and unsightly" turbines and has threatened to scrap plans to build a hotel at the course.

The 640-feet turbines will be in the sea an estimated mile and a half (2 km) from Trump's links course.

On Tuesday, he issued a statement saying: "We will put our future plans in Aberdeen on hold, as will many others, until this ridiculous proposal is defeated.

"Likewise, we will be bringing a lawsuit within the allocated period of time to stop what will definitely be the destruction of Aberdeen and Scotland itself."

The statement added: "We will spend whatever monies are necessary to see to it that these huge and unsightly industrial wind turbines are never constructed. All over the world they are being abandoned, but in Scotland they are being built."

Last year Trump told The Scotsman newspaper he would never have gone ahead with the development had he not been given assurances that the turbines would not be built.

But Scottish Energy Minister Fergus Ewing said the experimental wind farm in Aberdeen Bay was important.

"Offshore renewables represent a huge opportunity for Scotland; an opportunity to build up new industries and to deliver on our ambitious renewable energy and carbon reduction targets," he said in a statement.

The go-ahead was warmly met by the environmentalist charity Friends of the Earth Scotland.

"Offshore wind will be a huge part of our energy future and this scheme is a big step forward," said director Richard Dixon.

"Well done to the Scottish Government for standing up to Donald Trump's threats and bluster."

The project, called the European Offshore Wind Centre, will be able to generate enough energy for almost half of the homes in Aberdeen.


   2794. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 06:35 PM (#4397152)
The statement added: "We will spend whatever monies are necessary to see to it that these huge and unsightly industrial wind turbines are never constructed. All over the world they are being abandoned, but in Scotland they are being built."


Does Trump really have standing, given what is on top of his head, to argue on the basis of something being "unsightly"?

   2795. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 26, 2013 at 06:41 PM (#4397157)
"Likewise, we will be bringing a lawsuit within the allocated period of time to stop what will definitely be the destruction of Aberdeen and Scotland itself."


All that stands in the way of the end of the centuries-old history of Scotland is a Donald Trump TRO.

Hey, that would make a great reality show.
   2796. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 26, 2013 at 07:02 PM (#4397167)
Does Trump really have standing, given what is on top of his head, to argue on the basis of something being "unsightly"?


I think that giant wind turbines off in the distance might actually be cool looking...

Any way there is an article in the Atlantic this month on Trump- in it he is quoted that one of the reasons he sues so much, even when he knows he won't win is to cause "pain" to make his target suffer and expend time effort and worry...

Well Donald, that statement is going to come back to bite you in one of your myriad lawsuits...

   2797. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 07:43 PM (#4397189)
I think that giant wind turbines off in the distance might actually be cool looking...


Speaking of which, there's this wind project in development for Arizona near US/Mexico border:


A Maryland energy company is planning to deliver 500 megawatts of power to the electrical grid from a giant hollow tower on the Arizona-Mexico border that would be the second-tallest structure ever built.

Known as a downdraft tower, the project by Solar Wind Energy, Inc., is an untested and hugely ambitious endeavor. It has, however, attracted some heavyweight partners, including GE Energy and Whiting-Turner Contracting Co., which has built everything from steel foundries to the Baltimore Ravens’ football stadium. The company has sought no funding from the government.
Your Energy Skyscraper Questions, Answered David Ferris David Ferris Contributor
A Wind Power Innovator Dies Too Young David Ferris David Ferris Contributor

Solar Wind Energy is negotiating for a lease from the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) for a 1,700-acre parcel of flat, empty desert on the Mexican border, right next to an Air Force bombing range. The project must also win the blessing of the city of San Luis, Arizona, because the site is within city limits even though it lies five miles from any habitation.

If the tower and a proposed second one were built, San Luis — a town of less than 28,000 people, many of them migrant lettuce farmers — would have on its skyline two colossal towers that would each rise 2,250 feet, almost 500 feet taller than the uncompleted Freedom Tower in New York City. The only structure in the world that would be taller is the 2,722-foot Burj Khalifa in Dubai.


Link.
   2798. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 26, 2013 at 10:02 PM (#4397228)
how there's no bissinger discussion on this site today, i have no idea.
   2799. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: March 26, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4397231)
It started three years ago. I have never fully revealed it, and am only revealing it now in the hopes that my confession will incite a remission and perhaps help others of similar compulsion. If all I buy is Gucci, I will be fine. It has taken a while to figure out what works and what doesn't work, but Gucci men's clothing best represents who I want to be and have become—rocker, edgy, tight, bad boy, hip, stylish, flamboyant, unafraid, raging against the conformity that submerges us into boredom and blandness and the sexless saggy sackcloths that most men walk around in like zombies without the cinematic excitement of engorging flesh.

I own eighty-one leather jackets, seventy-five pairs of boots, forty-one pairs of leather pants, thirty-two pairs of haute couture jeans, ten evening jackets, and 115 pairs of leather gloves. Those who conclude from this that I have a leather fetish, an extreme leather fetish, get a grand prize of zero. And those who are familiar with my choices will sign affidavits attesting to the fact that I wear leather every day. The self-expression feels glorious, an indispensable part of me. As a stranger said after admiring my look in a Gucci burgundy jacquard velvet jacket and a Burberry black patent leather trench, "You don't give a ####."

I don't. I finally don't.

Some of the clothing is men's. Some is women's. I make no distinction. Men's fashion is catching up, with high-end retailers such as Gucci and Burberry and Versace finally honoring us. But women's fashion is still infinitely more interesting and has an unfair monopoly on feeling sexy, and if the clothing you wear makes you feel the way you want to feel, liberated and alive, then ####### wear it. The opposite, to repress yourself as I did for the first fifty-five years of my life, is the worst price of all to pay. The United States is a country that has raged against enlightenment since 1776; puritanism, the guiding lantern, has cast its withering judgment on anything outside the narrow societal mainstream. Think it's easy to be different in America? Try something as benign as wearing stretch leather leggings or knee-high boots if you are a man.


Buzz.
   2800. Tripon Posted: March 26, 2013 at 10:16 PM (#4397233)
And I am going to play Thrift Shop by Macklemore as a protest.
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