I haven't done any whining. I've simply pointed out

Opined. You've been opining.

But they're not "federal responsibilities" at all.

Yes, an opinion with which right-wingers like Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, et al., seem to agree.

you're not eliminating the need for that money to be sent, you're just shifting the burden of taxation.

Let's vote, who comes closest to being an orthodox liberal here?

I vote Andy.

taken from earlier 1040 tax forms gathered and stored on the flash drives.

A free abortion.

On demand?

Have you read his positions on feminism? ;-)

I haven't done any whining. I've simply pointed out that Dem voters value style over substance, and none of your thousands of words in response have refuted that basic claim.

Principles or preferences? Reason investigates "choice" at the Democratic National Convention:

How 'Pro-Choice' are Democrats?

Funny stuff.

Bitfloor, the largest Bitcoin exchange market in the US, is temporarily halting trading until further notice after an attack on their system that led to hackers running away with US$250,000 worth of Bitcoins.

The GOP has drummed its serious policy people out of the party, and now it's just these Mayberry Machiavellis who see policy as just another campaign in which the party is always right.

By contrast, in 2012, Mitt Romney's major policy proposals are the repealing of Obama's policies. He has no health care plan, no financial regulation plan, no tax plan beyond "I'll cut taxes and it'll be revenue neutral because... look! it's Halley's Comet!"

Should I have a choice to not wear pants in public?

But it's kind of funny how liberals criticize the "oppose everything Obama does" tactic used by the Republicans, since that's precisely what Democrats did to Bush for 8 years.

But it's kind of funny how liberals criticize the "oppose everything Obama does" tactic used by the Republicans, since that's precisely what Democrats did to Bush for 8 years.

I was going to say something, but 724 came first...

Democracy, Democrat-style

Wow! That's ridiculous.

Should I have a choice to not pay taxes? Should I have a choice to not educate my children? Should I have a choice to smoke in a public library? Should I have a choice to not wear pants in public?

No. Yes. No. Yes.

Principles or preferences? Reason investigates "choice" at the Democratic National Convention:

How 'Pro-Choice' are Democrats?

Funny stuff.

But it's kind of funny how liberals criticize the "oppose everything Obama does" tactic used by the Republicans, since that's precisely what Democrats did to Bush for 8 years.

And what a revelation that Democrats are universally pro-choice, provided that those choices are based on sound reasoning.

That's why I use the adjective "modern." Today's "liberals" are, as you note, highly illiberal.

Um, I think there's more than 3 Democrats in the entire universe.

but it's a shame that they've assumed a title that doesn't befit them in any way. It's even more of a shame that Republicans have bought into that little scam.

among those united to oppose Bush were Jim DeMint and Bernie Sanders.

You have it all backwards, it's the conservatives who have labeled what they don't like as "liberal" and it's those that the conservatives who have labeled "liberal" who "have bought into that little scam."

Other than that, yes you are right, the so-called "libertarians" are closer to what used to be called (100+ years ago) liberals, than current day "liberals"

As far as libertarian being a hideous portmanteau, I disagree, it's a nice little riff on liberty.

You have it all backwards, it's the conservatives who have labeled what they don't like as "liberal" and it's those that the conservatives who have labeled "liberal" who "have bought into that little scam."

Other than that, yes you are right, the so-called "libertarians" are closer to what used to be called (100+ years ago) liberals, than current day "liberals"

As far as libertarian being a hideous portmanteau, I disagree, it's a nice little riff on liberty.

By contrast, in 2012, Mitt Romney's major policy proposals are the repealing of Obama's policies. He has no health care plan, no financial regulation plan, no tax plan beyond "I'll cut taxes and it'll be revenue neutral because... look! it's Halley's Comet!"

Kind of like how the more wars a president starts, the more "presidential" he gets rated by "presidential historians."

On this refrain, what's so conservative about current conservatives today? Their platform is actually pretty radical.

The funniest might have been Newt Gingrich selling himself as an outsider.

How you raise your kids is your business. I suppose I would say you have to educate your kids but how you do it isn't up to me.

As to the smoking in a public library - if I stipulate that public libraries are truly public then, no, you can't subject people in a public place to harmful agents. I don't think you should be free to fire guns off anywhere you like, either.

I think people should be a lot more free in their choices than they are; doesn't mean there should be NO curbs on behavior. If that means I'm not "pro-choice" fine, what a zinger. It's like pointing out that if a "pro-life" person steps on a bug, they aren't really pro-life. Those terms are well defined in the social lexicon as pertaining to abortion.

I know lots of pro-death penalty, pro-life people and plenty of pro-choice folks who think they should be able to tell me what ingredients to use in the kitchen. I agree, if read literally, those are silly terms. But they aren't literal.

I wish that were right, but the existence of hundred-year-old leftist groups across the pond who've used "liberal" in the same way that most Americans do leads me to believe that it's the lefties who coopted it, not the neocons. I'd be interested to see a dedicated study on the ideological drift of the language of political identification.

I didn't pay attention to the primaries, but if this is what Gingrich did I'll agree it is hilarious.

I didn't pay attention to the primaries, but if this is what Gingrich did I'll agree it is hilarious.

His moonbase was pretty outsiderish.

Not all that different. Both see immigrants as taking jobs away from Americans. Their ideas about what would be ideal working conditions for Americans probably differ: Sanders's tending toward some pipe dream of protected, unionized industries and DeMint's tending toward some pipe dream of rugged unregulated entrepreneurship. But both see a steady supply of immigrant workers as damaging to that ideal.

He did, and it is. And I actually like Newt. He's probably the smartest guy who ran for president this year. I think he'd be a terrible president, but I hope he doesn't go away.

1: it wasn't the neocons who labeled american dems "liberals"
2: the fact that in Europe some lefties were called liberals would be a reason for america righties to label their opponents as being liberals, not a reason for American non-conservatives to name themselves such.

2: "Liberal" had a meaning long before it was co-opted by 19th-/early 20th-century leftists who were influenced by socialist thought. Locke and Jefferson were liberals; what happened between then and now that so twisted the word?

Evolution of language, which has been happening since the first grunt?

Evolution of language, which has been happening since the first grunt?

Irregardless, I'm disinterested and could care less about it.

On this refrain, what's so conservative about current conservatives today? Their platform is actually pretty radical reactionary.

Get this:

The group allegedly obtained the files from PricewaterhouseCooper’s Tennessee office on Aug. 25, in what was described on PasteBin as a Mission Impossible-like caper:

Romney’s 1040 tax returns were taken from the PWC office 8/25/2012 by gaining access to the third floor via a gentleman working on the 3rd floor of the building. Once on the 3rd floor, the team moved down the stairs to the 2nd floor and setup shop in an empty office room. During the night, suite 260 was entered, and all available 1040 tax forms for Romney were copied. A package was sent to the PWC on suite 260 with a flash drive containing a copy of the 1040 files, plus copies were sent to the Democratic office in the county and copies were sent to the GOP office in the county at the beginning of the week also containing flash drives with copies of Romney’s tax returns before 2010. A scanned signature image for Mitt Romney from the 1040 forms were scanned and included with the packages, taken from earlier 1040 tax forms gathered and stored on the flash drives.

I haven't done any whining. I've simply pointed out that Dem voters value style over substance, and none of your thousands of words in response have refuted that basic claim.

Appears to be a hoax, since the links to the story seem to be disappearing. However, it is somewhat surprising that a purported Watergate-stlyle burglary to obtain Romney's tax returns has been referred to several times by the Democratic partisans here without a word of disapproval. Interesting.

However, it is somewhat surprising that a purported Watergate-stlyle burglary to obtain Romney's tax returns has been referred to several times by the Democratic partisans here without a word of disapproval. Interesting.

On this refrain, what's so conservative about current conservatives today? Their platform is actually pretty radical.

Kind of like how the more wars a president starts, the more "presidential" he gets rated by "presidential historians."

Similarly, how come progressives are so opposed to progress?

Similarly, how come progressives are so opposed to progress? They want to revert to conserve the New Deal and revert to 19th century ideas about economics.

They do want to progress.

Most of the rest of the world now has some sort or government mandated/controlled/provided health care. We don't
Most of the rest of the world has disbanded the death penalty. We haven't.
Most of the rest of the world has a progressive tax system. We don't.

Did you read the thread? Several posts point to this story without any indication that story is a hoax or that the poster disapproves of the tactic.

Most of the rest of the world has a progressive tax system. We don't.

Concern troll is concerned.

b) Most of the rest of the world or Europe? Careful now.

a) If you liked WW2 ration booklets, you'd love government mandated/provided/controlled health care. "Progress" =)

3. I wasn't aware that my betters in government had done away with Social Security, according to which the young/relatively poor are forced to give money to the old/relatively rich according to the "progressive" model. Needless to say, you made my day.

Please be advised #782 is a download.

That is some shitpoor form, Prior.

Please be advised #782 is a download.

That is some shitpoor form, Prior.

Lassus's mock outrage and scolding at having downloaded a 15K spreadsheet is absolutely absurd. He could've said "Hey, that link isn't clearly labeled, can you take care of that so people don't worry about downloading a virus?" instead of accusing me of "shitpoor form." Tell me, how many people did you scold in the flame wars of these political threads for actual bad behavior? Zero?

And yet...most developed countries "most like us" have it and most of their citizens are happy with it.

The fact that this fascist,