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Tuesday, December 05, 2017

OTP 04 December 2017: Baseball group accused of ‘united front’ tactics

New Power Party (NPP) Legislator Hsu Yung-ming (徐永明) said that the baseball association should bear the brunt of the blame for letting Taiwanese players become political tools in China’s “united front” strategy and for giving Chinese media an opportunity to promote the “both sides of the Strait are one family” view without restraint.

China is not a top-tier nation in baseball and positive effects on Taiwanese baseball from the tournament would be limited, Hsu said.

The Chinese Taipei Baseball Association should not go along with China, he said, adding that the Sports Administration should investigate whether the association accepted financial aid and whether it reported issues to the government in advance.

“The government should clearly standardize the guidelines for cross-strait sports exchanges,” Hsu added.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 05, 2017 at 08:57 AM | 1727 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: china, politics, taiwan

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   1001. Omineca Greg Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:35 PM (#5588287)
Mr. Bivens, does that have anything to do with Echo and the Bunnymen?
   1002. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5588288)
Re: #994:
Juanita Broaddrick complaining that she was not adequately recognized as 2017's Time Magazine Person of the Year makes Trump's preemptive "I unchoose YOU!" hissyfit look legitimate.
   1003. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5588289)
Ray, #732:
Stewart, Oliver, Colbert, Bee, now Kimmel....... Leftists flock to these shows every bit as much as the right flocks to Limbaugh/Hannity/Levin/Ingraham.
The only difference is that the rightest entertainers don't hide that they're rightist while the leftist entertainers pretend they're "mainstream" and are presented in so-called "mainstream" outlets.
Folks on the left didn't like it when O'Reilly pretended to be an "independent" with "no spin."



I never tire of Ray's analyses of comedy. I'm 100% sincere in this.

John Oliver and his staff had a very fine idea for a show: a "Daily Show" that features an 18-minute segment on an "underreported" subject. Unfortunately, they're afraid of their own premise and the segments routinely devolve into song parodies, saying "fuck" in between "fucking and "fuck," and Oliver fake-screaming every 2 minutes at a photo of a kitten dressed as a Charlottesville racist watching PornHub, as if they're afraid their audience will flee the very format they're watching for. The show has merit but is missable.

Oliver's standup is quite weak. His delivery has an amusing manic quality. He would have been a good British character actor slotted into the old studio system with Edward Everett Horton and William Demarest.

Samantha Bee remains as insufferable as she has always been. She does the vapid and easy to write "word combination insult" shtick that Ray insists Colbert is doing.

Above all, Bee and Oliver and Trevor Noah have made me realize that I'd started to take Jon Stewart for granted.



Ray, #758:
John Oliver, from what I've seen, is all surface. He thinks standing on a moral soap box and asking Hard Hitting Questions in an inappropriate forum so that he belittles his guest is a substitute for actually thinking about an issue.


In other words, what you've seen is the one Oliver/Hoffman clip that was first posted two days ago.



Ray, #877:
If Matt Lauer is any guide it's _John Oliver_ who is somewhere in the queue.


Do tell us more, O visitor from the East, great seer, soothsayer and sage, in your mystical and borderline divine way. (And remember, it's everyone else that's deranged.)



SBB Larvell, #760:
[Dustin] Hoffman should have just gotten up and walked out, thanked the audience, and grabbed a sandwich. [John] Oliver's behavior desecrated the Y.


Hoffman should put his pride on the shelf. As for the incident, Hoffman was a young man! Are you listening to me? I said young man. I feel the whole world is so jive.
   1004. zenbitz Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:38 PM (#5588290)
WHAT ABOUT CHAPPAQUIDDICK???

But yeah, I'm sorry I voted for Bill in 1992 (for several reasons) and sorry I fell into the trap that his persecution in the late 90s was *nothing* but partisan abuse of congressional authority (It WAS that but Bill Clinton I can safely say in hindsight wasn't morally fit to serve in public office). His wife? Clearly LESS guilty but certainly acted pretty shady w.r.t Bill's shenanigans. Disappointing really because (in my eyes) I was starting to like her (mostly for facing down a storm of patriarchal #### - in more ways than one).

The joke of course is that Republicans certainly didn't hold their own to the same standard THEN (Newt Gingrich anyone?) to say nothing of today. Hell, I *LIKED* Al Franken -- both as a comic and as a politician, and absolutely he should step down (assuming he's guilty, which at this point seems pretty clear). Ditto Conyers. I mean, Democrats were against gay marriage until they were for it, but at least they got it right in the end.
   1005. zenbitz Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:39 PM (#5588291)
Then again, a lot of actresses got careers because they were willing to agree to the casting couch.


What about bribes? Is it OK to accept a bribe to give someone a job? Shouldn't you be fired over it?
   1006. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:41 PM (#5588294)
Andy, #776:
Of course being an ancient geezer, reading about Nightbeat** was my introduction to Wallace, a full decade or so before 60 Minutes came along. IIRC there was a brutal parody of that show that appeared at one point in MAD, but I'd need Gonfalon to do a tracer on that.


I live to serve. You're thinking of "Mike Malice Interviews Mother Goose," from 1958. Mike "Malice" peppers her with questions about whether her nursery rhymes in fact contain Communist propaganda, whether "Old Mother Hubbard" is an ill-disguised attack on Social Security, and so forth. Lots of black, lots of cigarette smoke. It's in the same issue (#38) with the cover painted by J. Fred Muggs the chimpanzee.
   1007. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5588295)
David N, #941:
Mein Kampf is an artistic work,

The charitable interpretation is that SBB doesn't know what Mein Kampf is.



If "Mein Kampf" debuted nowadays, it would appear on the New York Times bestsellers list with a little dagger symbol to indicate it's being bought in bulk and given away as a enticement premium to donors.
   1008. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5588296)
Re: #994:
Juanita Broaddrick complaining that she was not adequately recognized as 2017's Time Magazine Person of the Year makes Trump's preemptive "I unchoose YOU!" hissyfit look legitimate.
Considering all that's she's been through over the years, that's more than a tad unfair.
   1009. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:43 PM (#5588297)
The fact that for a lot of women, the only possible way to advance their careers, is by sleeping their way to the top, is completely unacceptable in any modern society. Period. Full stop. Whether some women would go for that or not is irrelevant.


Mansplain it, brother!!!!
   1010. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5588299)
SBB, your blue quotation has stretchied the thread. Save us!

[EDIT: Our hero!!]
   1011. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:47 PM (#5588300)
Mr. Bivens, does that have anything to do with Echo and the Bunnymen?


It does. I know it needs work, but I think I've laid the foundation for a quality mock.
   1012. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:49 PM (#5588303)
Argentina's Fernandez charged with treason, arrest sought:
BUENOS AIRES (Reuters) - A federal judge in Argentina indicted former President Cristina Fernandez for treason and asked for her arrest for allegedly covering up Iran’s possible role in the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center that killed 85 people, a court ruling said.

As Fernandez is a senator, Congress would first have to vote to strip her of parliamentary immunity for an arrest to occur. The judge, Claudio Bonadio, also indicted and ordered house arrest for Fernandez’s Foreign Minister Hector Timerman, the 491-page ruling said. ...

Fernandez and her allies have been the focus of several high profile cases with arrests and indictments since center-right Mauricio Macri defeated her chosen successor and was elected president in late 2015.

Fernandez left office just a few months before the Congress in neighboring Brazil impeached another leftist female leader, Dilma Rousseff for breaking budget laws.

The cover-up allegations against Fernandez gained international attention in January 2015, when the prosecutor who initially made them, Alberto Nisman, was found shot dead in the bathroom of his Buenos Aires apartment.

An Argentine appeals court a year ago ordered the re-opening of the investigation.
That's what the IRGC did in 1994. They're way more powerful today.
   1013. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5588304)
SBB, your blue quotation has stretchied the thread. Save us!


Hmmmm...

1009. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:43 PM (#5588297)
[ Ignored Comment ]


LOL!!
   1014. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5588305)
The women in the NYT comments section on the Franken resignation story are horrified at today's travesty, and rightfully so. A representative sample, from Santa Monica:

The resignation of Al Franken should trouble every woman who calls herself a feminist and is concerned about workplace harassment and sexual assault. Unless Gillibrand has information the rest of us are not privy to, right now all we know about are accusations of misconduct at worst by Mr. Franken none of which has been substantiated or formerly vetted in any way beyond "she said so, so it's true." What is going to happen when a page says Ms. Gillibrand made a pass at him in a copy room ten years ago. Will she hold herself to the standard she has promulgated with Al Franken? Or that her hand drifted and rested on a constituent's tush during a photo five years ago that she doesn't remember taking. These standards are extremely troubling - and her position seems to be we believe any woman who makes a statement regardless of what the accused says. There will be a swift and merciless backlash to this unjust standard very soon - and then women will be even worse off than before. The standard should be conduct and credibility of the accusation - not simply making an accusation. So while Mr. Franken has seemingly been railroaded in a misguided witch hunt, a real life pedophile is about to enter the senate in his stead. Shame on all the senators who pushed this today.


Al Franken out, Roy Moore in.

Well played, "liberals." Well played. And there was no self-interest involved in Kirsten Gillibrand's activities in this -- oh no, none at all. All she cares about is women being treated well in the workplace. Nothing else.

   1015. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:17 PM (#5588317)
Al Franken out, Roy Moore in.

Well played, "liberals."
First, Moore isn't even in, so this comment is a lie.

Second, if Moore gets in, it won't be because of liberals, so the sneer is completely nonsensical.

Third, it isn't even a sequitur. Whether Franken is out and whether Moore is in are entirely separate issues. If one thinks that politicians should be able to assault people without consequence -- yes, fake lawyer, what Franken is accused of includes the crime of assault -- and therefore Franken ought not to resign, then that's the case independent of what happens with Moore. Lloyd Waner doesn't set the floor for the HOF, and Roy Moore doesn't set the floor for the Senate.
   1016. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:19 PM (#5588318)
Here are the allegations against Al Franken:

1. He said let's rehearse a kiss we have to do, woman said OK, he kissed her harder and with more tongue than she expected. Then, he had a picture taken with his hands close to her flak jacket covered breasts.

2. He did an impromptu picture at the state fair and when he put his arm around the woman for the picture, he grabbed her butt cheek.

3. He did an impromptu picture at a MN political caucus and when he put his arm around the woman for the picture, he grabbed her butt cheek.

4. At a Dem fundraiser, he "cupped" a woman's butt cheek.

5. He did an impromptu picture at a USO Tour event in Kuwait, and when he put his arm around the woman for the picture, he kept his hand on the woman's breast.

6. A woman was introduced to him and went to shake his hand at a radio appearance, and he leaned in and kissed her cheek.

7. He tried to kiss an aide who ducked and rejected the kiss.

8. He did an impromptu picture at a party and when he put his arm around the woman for the picture, he grabbed her waist.

Link
   1017. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5588319)
Whether Franken is out and whether Moore is in are entirely separate issues.


LOL.

OK, then. They're completely unrelated. Who could possibly argue otherwise? LOL again.

what Franken is accused of includes the crime of assault


No, it doesn't. He's never been accused of the crime of assault by anyone. He's never been accused of a crime and he's never even been investigated for committing a crime.

You're inventing again.
   1018. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:27 PM (#5588320)

Sorry, I forgot you were a fake lawyer. Grabbing someone's ass without permission is the crime of assault, fake lawyer.
   1019. BrianBrianson Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:32 PM (#5588323)
Damn, David, if you keep being so reasonable, how are we gonna chew you out?
   1020. Count Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:32 PM (#5588324)
I think it's actually battery.
   1021. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:32 PM (#5588325)
Andy, #776:
Of course being an ancient geezer, reading about Nightbeat** was my introduction to Wallace, a full decade or so before 60 Minutes came along. IIRC there was a brutal parody of that show that appeared at one point in MAD, but I'd need Gonfalon to do a tracer on that.

I live to serve. You're thinking of "Mike Malice Interviews Mother Goose," from 1958. Mike "Malice" peppers her with questions about whether her nursery rhymes in fact contain Communist propaganda, whether "Old Mother Hubbard" is an ill-disguised attack on Social Security, and so forth. Lots of black, lots of cigarette smoke. It's in the same issue (#38) with the cover painted by J. Fred Muggs the chimpanzee.


That's the one, all right. I was 14 that year, and sold all my comic books and magazines (1400 of them, for a penny apiece) to finance my first date, but that's one of the ones I wish I'd kept. I liked MAD much better when it was in its comic book format, but even after that period it had its moments, and that Wallace parody was one of its best.
   1022. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:34 PM (#5588327)
Sorry, I forgot you were a fake lawyer. Grabbing someone's ass without permission is the crime of assault, fake lawyer.


That's not what you wrote, but even that's wrong. Laughably so.

Here's the definition of misdemeanor assault in Minnesota:

Subdivision 1. Misdemeanor. Whoever does any of the following commits an assault and is
guilty of a misdemeanor:
(1) commits an act with intent to cause fear in another of immediate bodily harm or death; or
(2) intentionally inflicts or attempts to inflict bodily harm upon another.


It's the same in NY and other states.

You're beclowning yourself.



   1023. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:35 PM (#5588329)
The fact that for a lot of women, the only possible way to advance their careers, is by sleeping their way to the top, is completely unacceptable in any modern society. Period. Full stop. Whether some women would go for that or not is irrelevant.

Mansplain it, brother!!!!


One of the problems here is that there's a difference between the sexes. Some men who are disgusting creatures will offer (however tacitly) women career advancement in exchange for sex; some women will accept the offer. But it doesn't work in the reverse. Women don't offer men career advancement in exchange for sex. This isn't so much a result of "society" but is a simple result of the male and female brains working differently in nature. So we can legislate the practice to make it illegal and we can demonize it and pretend no women want it but we can't take the blue out of the sky; the casting couch scenario will always be there. And since it exists, then by definition some women want it. It doesn't exist in the reverse.

Please note for the reading impaired: This is not a "support" of the practice by me. It is simply a recitation of what IS. And we can't discuss what SHOULD BE unless we first discuss what IS and WHY.
   1024. Hot Wheeling American Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:35 PM (#5588330)
@eugenescott:
Moore to an African American asking when he last thought America was “great”: “I think it was great at the time when families were united. Even though we had slavery, they cared for one another…. Our families were strong, our country had a direction.”

A comment:

sicknievers:
"He might be a sexual predator, but at least he's racist." - Moore Supporters


Edit: the comment from Roy Moore, the preferred choice of the Republican Party for the open Alabama senate seat, is from September (2017, not 1817)
   1025. Morty Causa Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:38 PM (#5588331)
There's nothing wrong with owning or reading a copy of Mein Kampf. It's an important historical book and reading it does not mean that you have to endorse the views expressed in it in any way. It's valuable to know the perspectives of those who commit evil in order to recognize and prevent atrocities from repeating themselves.

Of course. Those who persist in not acknowledging this are unregenerate mumpsimuses addicted to contrarianism. They can't let go of that inner child polemicist.
   1026. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:39 PM (#5588332)
beclowning


Behold!
   1027. Lassus Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:42 PM (#5588333)
I am "distanced" from him. As to those who work more closely with him, they know him far better than I do, and I don't believe in shunnings and scarlet letters and heartless and reductionist views of human beings.(*) (With obviously some very, very limited exceptions.) That's just social media-driven nonsense -- which is why the decades long pre-social media treatment of Polanski is normalcy, and the social media-driven hysteria of 2017 is abnormalcy. (*) Or it's obverse -- the reductionist view of certain types of people as across-the-board unalloyed saints. "Believe all Women!!" Bullshit. That's also social media-driven twaddle.
This approaches (although there's a long, long way to go) the null-set word-salad championship form of Morty.
   1028. zenbitz Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:43 PM (#5588334)
I have to admit, I don't have any idea what crime is committed if you grab an ass or breast with intent of sexual gratification. I *DO* know that you shouldn't do it.

Franken is an elected official. No one and nothing can FORCE him to resign. The senate can expel him. He can be voted (or primaried) out. But if he worked for me, I would report him to HR for his behavior (that listed above). HR does HR things but they can and do recommend termination for stuff like that. And it doesn't (or shouldn't, anyway) matter "how important the person is to the company".

   1029. Lassus Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:45 PM (#5588337)
For all the grief I give Jason, I think he is a good guy basically.
I know, right???


The other one.
   1030. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:51 PM (#5588338)
It's a real struggle to just find something he doesn't inevitably make worse...


There are a fair number of very boring, under the radar things (largely ministerial) which I find Trump to be doing a fine job(IMO of course) (judiciary, administrative law/rulemaking pullback, portions of tax reform) but again, these are tasks that countless others could perform to my satisfaction. I don't need to support Trump for this (I didn't vote for him) . Of course that's a problem for voters like me. I wasn't voting for HRC either. He's still a near zero to me. He's not getting my vote (I've said he won't seek or reach a second term) in 2020.

I don't live in AL, but there's no freaking way I'd vote for Moore. The guy's expendable. It's a joke to me people defend him, same as it was feminists hung behind Bill Clinton (again I don't care if he's a relatively good president, why do we tolerate this crap?). Yeah, Levine was (apparently) a wonderful director for the Met Opera. Thank you for your 40 years of service. Next! It's all unnecessarily disruptive at a minimum.
   1031. BrianBrianson Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:52 PM (#5588339)
Women don't offer men career advancement in exchange for sex.


Maybe they don't offer you career advancement in exchange for sex, Ray.
   1032. zenbitz Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:52 PM (#5588340)
Women don't offer men career advancement in exchange for sex.


Sure they do. It's just way less common. Also, men offer men career advancement in exchange for sex.

This isn't so much a result of "society" but is a simple result of the male and female brains working differently in nature.


I don't know how to put this... but Biology is not patent law. Generalizing from average or typical behavior (of males vs. females) might be useful sometimes, but it will also have a reasonably large false positive and/or false negative rate.

Men are physically stronger than Women. (unstated: on average)
1st basemen are better hitters than Catchers (unstated: on average) -- but Buster Posey out hit 16/28 1st basemen last year (caveat: he did play 1/4 of his innings at 1B).
   1033. Morty Causa Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:52 PM (#5588341)
If one can't distance oneself from Roman Polanski - not just accused, but convicted, and a fugitive from justice - there wouldn't seem to be any moral compass in play. And that truly appears to be the case for some - the film industry not only overlooked Polanski's sordid past, but was willing to turn a blind eye to the Harvey Weinstein types until it became impossible to do so.

If one can't distance oneself from facile moralism in order to fully free one's aesthetic sense, one really has nothing intelligent to say about art, any kind of art.

A biography of Ezra Pound, entitled The Bughouse, just out demonstrates this in spades. Pound was immensely talented, top-tier talented, poet, and a very influential literary theorist who was rabidly anti-Semitic and pro-fascist. After WWII he was incarcerated in a mental hospital for some 12 years, and while there he was awarded the prestigious Bollingen Prize in 1948 for the Pisan Cantos. This led to a backlash of seismic dimension. No one really questioned Pound's poetic abilities or the literary quality of his poetry. The uproar was all about his politics, which some even on the Bollingen committee found horrendous to a degree that bordered on the highly immoral.
   1034. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:55 PM (#5588345)
Or Wagner. No one sane thinks that listening to a Wagner record makes you an enabler of fascism, or complicit in same, and people don't rummage through their collections making sure the Wagner is taken to the bedroom instead of staying in the living room.

This is all for show, all theatrical, all virtue signaling, all demonstration of solidarity with the (absurdist) zeitgeist of the times. That's all it is. Nothing more.
   1035. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:04 PM (#5588347)
Who had Trent Franks in the "next to resign under a cloud" pool?
   1036. Lassus Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:06 PM (#5588348)
This is all for show, all theatrical, all virtue signaling, all demonstration of solidarity with the (absurdist) zeitgeist of the times.

Say, the times when Wagner was actually alive:
The initial publication of the article attracted little attention, but Wagner wrote a self-justifying letter about it to Franz Liszt in 1851, claiming that his "long-suppressed resentment against this Jewish business" was "as necessary to me as gall is to the blood".[12] Wagner republished the pamphlet under his own name in 1869, with an extended introduction, leading to several public protests at the first performances of Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg.


No one sane thinks that listening to a Wagner record makes you an enabler of fascism, or complicit in same, and people don't rummage through their collections making sure the Wagner is taken to the bedroom instead of staying in the living room.

Except maybe those virtue-signalling wackos, Israel:
Wagner's operas have never been staged in the modern State of Israel, and the few public instrumental performances that have occurred have provoked much controversy.

Despite Wagner's known writings against Jews, there was no opposition to his music in the early Zionist movement and its founders; Theodor Herzl, the founder of Zionism, was an avid admirer of Wagner's music.[38] The Palestine Orchestra, founded in 1936 by Bronisław Huberman in what is now the state of Israel (and which became the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra), 'during its first two years [...] programme[d] several works by Richard Wagner who was recognised as one of the great Western composers despite the well-known fact that he had been a fanatical anti-Semite'. However the orchestra banished his works from its repertoire after Kristallnacht in 1938 (to be followed shortly after by the exclusion of works of Richard Strauss).[39]

Although Wagner's works are broadcast on Israeli government-owned radio and television stations, attempts to stage public performances in Israel have raised protests, including protests from Holocaust survivors. In 1981 Zubin Mehta, as an encore at an orchestral concert on Tel-Aviv, played extracts from Tristan und Isolde, after offering those who wished (including two members of the orchestra who had asked to be excused) the opportunity to leave. Despite a few vocal protests, most of the audience stayed to the end of the piece.[40][41] In 1992, Daniel Barenboim programmed works by Wagner at a concert of the Israel Philharmonic, but this was cancelled after protests, although a rehearsal was opened to the public.[42] The first documented public Israeli Wagner concerts were in 2000, when the Holocaust survivor Mendi Rodan conducted the Siegfried Idyll in Rishon LeZion, and in August 2001 when a concert conducted by Barenboim in Tel Aviv included as an encore an extract from Tristan und Isolde, which divided the audience between applause and protest.[43] A concert with works by Wagner was announced for 18 June 2012 in Tel Aviv;[44] however these plans were abandoned after protests.[45]
   1037. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:06 PM (#5588349)
He tried to kiss an aide who ducked and rejected the kiss.


Wait, a couple of pages ago you and Ray were talking about a middle aged married man doing it to a younger subordinate in the workplace? The way you were describing it, I was sure you were talking about 2 teenagers on a date at the movies.
   1038. Greg K Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:07 PM (#5588350)
Stephen Fry did a little documentary, Wagner and Me, about how a Jew can love Wagner.
   1039. Hot Wheeling American Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:07 PM (#5588351)
The Onion:
RNC: 'We Warned You Gay Marriage Would Be A Slippery Slope Toward Accepting Pedophilia'
   1040. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:09 PM (#5588352)
Jolly Andy, #1021:
I was 14 that year, and sold all my comic books and magazines (1400 of them, for a penny apiece) to finance my first date


I hope you got laid, 'cause I know you got screwed. Today, MAD #38 goes for $225 in near mint condition, down to $18 in raggedy beat-up condition.



I liked MAD much better when it was in its comic book format, but even after that period it had its moments, and that Wallace parody was one of its best.


It had its moments in the 1970s, and in the 1990s, and also right now. If someone ever compiled the best ten articles from each year of MAD's history, it would be hard to make a linear case to identify its indisputable heyday.
   1041. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:11 PM (#5588353)
#1035:
Who had Trent Franks in the "next to resign under a cloud" pool?


I heard from a very reliable source it was either going to be Trent Franks or John Oliver.
   1042. Morty Causa Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:25 PM (#5588358)
The resignation of Al Franken should trouble every woman who calls herself a feminist and is concerned about workplace harassment and sexual assault. Unless Gillibrand has information the rest of us are not privy to, right now all we know about are accusations of misconduct at worst by Mr. Franken none of which has been substantiated or formerly vetted in any way beyond "she said so, so it's true." What is going to happen when a page says Ms. Gillibrand made a pass at him in a copy room ten years ago. Will she hold herself to the standard she has promulgated with Al Franken? Or that her hand drifted and rested on a constituent's tush during a photo five years ago that she doesn't remember taking. These standards are extremely troubling - and her position seems to be we believe any woman who makes a statement regardless of what the accused says. There will be a swift and merciless backlash to this unjust standard very soon - and then women will be even worse off than before. The standard should be conduct and credibility of the accusation - not simply making an accusation. So while Mr. Franken has seemingly been railroaded in a misguided witch hunt, a real life pedophile is about to enter the senate in his stead. Shame on all the senators who pushed this today.

Some of us have been so cautioning since the beginning of all this. Glad to see some people who count (women, of course) are starting to try to make themselves heard on this score. What chew gunna do when they come for you? (Wait for your time to be on Time's cover?)
   1043. PepTech Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:30 PM (#5588360)
And we can't discuss what SHOULD BE unless we first discuss what IS and WHY.
Just because you're intellectually limited in this way doesn't mean the rest of us are. When you catch up, feel free to contribute in a meaningful way, rather than from some soapbox where you define words differently than others.
   1044. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:32 PM (#5588361)
If you didn't have Harold Ford Jr. as next in the pool... you lost!
   1045. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:38 PM (#5588364)
Who had Trent Franks in the "next to resign under a cloud" pool?
Details are lacking. This ought to be interesting.

BTW, the AP article on Franks describes the House Freedom Caucus as "far right." If anyone has seen the MSM label Conyers or the CBC as "far left," please advise and send a link. Thanks.
   1046. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:39 PM (#5588365)
Trent Franks is weird.
   1047. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:46 PM (#5588370)
I've gotta run to a condo board meeting in a few minutes but will leave the latest nothing-to-see-here for your pleasure...

Top DOJ official demoted amid probe of contacts with Trump dossier firm
EXCLUSIVE: A senior Justice Department official was demoted this week amid an ongoing investigation into his contacts with the opposition research firm responsible for the anti-Trump “dossier,” the department confirmed to Fox News.

Until Wednesday morning, Bruce G. Ohr held two titles at DOJ: associate deputy attorney general, a post that placed him four doors down from his boss, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein; and director of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces (OCDETF), a program described by the department as “the centerpiece of the attorney general’s drug strategy.”

Ohr will retain his OCDETF title but has been stripped of his higher post and ousted from his office on the fourth floor of “Main Justice.”

Initially senior department officials could not provide the reason for Ohr’s demotion, but Fox News has learned that evidence collected by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI), chaired by Rep. Devin Nunes, R-Calif., indicates that Ohr met during the 2016 campaign with Christopher Steele, the former British spy who authored the “dossier.”

Later, a Justice Department official told Fox News: "It is unusual for anyone to wear two hats as he has done recently. This person is going to go back to a single focus—director of our organized crime and drug enforcement unit. As you know, combating transnational criminal organizations and drug trafficking is a top priority for the attorney general."

Additionally, House investigators have determined that Ohr met shortly after the election with Glenn Simpson, the founder of Fusion GPS – the opposition research firm that hired Steele to compile the dossier with funds supplied by the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee. By that point, according to published reports, the dossier had been in the hands of the FBI, which exists under the aegis of DOJ, for some five months, and the surveillance on Carter Page, an adviser to the Trump campaign, had started more than two months prior.

Former FBI Director James Comey, testifying before the House in March, described the dossier as a compendium of “salacious and unverified” allegations against then-candidate Donald Trump and his associates. The Nunes panel has spent much of this year investigating whether DOJ, under then-Attorney General Loretta Lynch, used the dossier to justify a foreign surveillance warrant against Page.

The contacts between Ohr and Steele, and between Ohr and Simpson, have not been publicly disclosed nor shared with HPSCI staff.
   1048. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:52 PM (#5588372)
Jason is in full fledged “vast left wing conspiracy “ mode.
   1049. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:53 PM (#5588373)
The House “freedom caucus” is far right.
   1050. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:54 PM (#5588375)
On a related note, here's Alex Moe, NBC News:
AND the House Ethics Committee CLEARS House Intel Chairman Rep Nunes - says information he was accused of disclosing was NOT classified
Oh.
   1051. spycake Posted: December 07, 2017 at 07:07 PM (#5588377)
BTW, the AP article on Franks describes the House Freedom Caucus as "far right." If anyone has seen the MSM label Conyers or the CBC as "far left," please advise and send a link. Thanks


I know where you are going, but isn't the House Freedom Caucus largely a Tea Party group, by definition? I seem to recall its founders wanted it to be more conservative than the larger Republican Study Committee, so is it really problematic to note that? Especially since its generic name doesn't really make clear its political affiliation (at least to readers who may not know the modern "Freedom" = conservative code).

Conversely, the CBC's name more clearly identifies its composition / advocacy goals, so further description probably isn't necessary. (And aren't there a couple Republican members?) Change the name of the Freedom Caucus to the White Caucus and I imagine plenty of news outlets would deem the "far right" description as superfluous. :)
   1052. spycake Posted: December 07, 2017 at 07:18 PM (#5588381)
I've gotta run to a condo board meeting in a few minutes but will leave the latest nothing-to-see-here for your pleasure...

Top DOJ official demoted amid probe of contacts with Trump dossier firm
EXCLUSIVE


Is it too much to ask, if an item is labeled as an "exclusive", to also note its source? In this case, Fox News?

And wasn't Steele in contact with the FBI during the campaign about the dossier? Is it really that odd that a DOJ official would have met him? And the FBI had the dossier by the time he is alleged to have met Simpson?

At this point, this seems like an inference designed to undermine credibility rather than any meaningful evidence of anything on its own. (A Google search for this dude indicates that "Gateway Pundit" is now running with this torch...)
   1053. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 07:20 PM (#5588383)
Is it too much to ask, if an item is labeled as an "exclusive", to also note its source? In this case, Fox News?


Dancing Monkey #4 is off to whine about condo assessments.
   1054. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 07, 2017 at 07:32 PM (#5588385)
Who had Trent Franks in the "next to resign under a cloud" pool?

Details are lacking. This ought to be interesting.
Well, here's some "details":
"I have recently learned that the Ethics Committee is reviewing an inquiry regarding my discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates, making each feel uncomfortable," Franks said in a statement. "I deeply regret that my discussion of this option and process in the workplace caused distress."
I'm just going to go ahead and say his statement is bullfeathers, and we'll find out how deep the bullfeathers are pretty quickly.

EDIT: Of course, I could be wrong. But saying "Hey, my wife can't have kids. Can you help a brother out?" would certainly qualify as harassment, I'd think.
   1055. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 07, 2017 at 07:35 PM (#5588387)
Trent Franks apparently asked female staffers to be his surrogates because his wife had had 3 miscarriages and they were having infertility problems.

EDIT: Coke to TDF
   1056. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 07, 2017 at 07:35 PM (#5588388)
BTW, the AP article on Franks describes the House Freedom Caucus as "far right." If anyone has seen the MSM label Conyers or the CBC as "far left," please advise and send a link. Thanks.
If you listed what each believe or have pushed for, I'm confident more people would agree with Conyers' positions than with the HFC's. Which, by definition, would make him more mainstream.
   1057. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: December 07, 2017 at 07:49 PM (#5588390)
There's discussion about football and violence in the NFL thread, and I wanted to share this from Klosterman, but it's less about the game itself than its cultural/political relevance so figured I'd post here instead.
There's an embedded assumption within all arguments regarding the doomed nature of football. The assumption is that the game is even more violent and damaging than it superficially appears, and that as more people realize this (and/or refuse to deny the medical evidence verifying that damage), the game's fan support will disappear. The mistake made by those advocating this position is their certitude that this perspective is self-evident. It's not. These advocates remind me of an apocryphal quote attributed to film critic Pauline Kael after the 1972 presidential election: “How could Nixon have won? I don't know one person who voted for him.” Now, Kael never actually said this.†† But that erroneous quote survives as the best shorthand example for why smart people tend to be wrong as often as their not-so-smart peers—they work from the flawed premise that their worldview is standard. The contemporary stance on football's risk feels unilateral, because nobody goes around saying, “Modern life is not violent enough.” Yet this sentiment quietly exists. And what those who believe it say instead is, “I love football. It's the last bastion of hope for toughness in America.” It's not difficult to imagine a future where the semantic distance between those statements is nonexistent. And if that happens, football will change from a popular leisure pastime to an unpopular political necessity.
Link
   1058. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 07:57 PM (#5588393)
There's an embedded assumption within all arguments regarding the doomed nature of football. The assumption is that the game is even more violent and damaging than it superficially appears, and that as more people realize this (and/or refuse to deny the medical evidence verifying that damage), the game's fan support will disappear. The mistake made by those advocating this position is their certitude that this perspective is self-evident. It's not. These advocates remind me of an apocryphal quote attributed to film critic Pauline Kael after the 1972 presidential election: “How could Nixon have won? I don't know one person who voted for him.” Now, Kael never actually said this.†† But that erroneous quote survives as the best shorthand example for why smart people tend to be wrong as often as their not-so-smart peers—they work from the flawed premise that their worldview is standard. The contemporary stance on football's risk feels unilateral, because nobody goes around saying, “Modern life is not violent enough.” Yet this sentiment quietly exists.


The problem is that even this misses the issue: there can be a billion bloodthirsty NFL fans who like the violence. But it's not really these idiots who matter; if the SPONSORS feel that they have to distance themselves from the NFL the league will die. (Or be played in obscurity like my softball games are.)
   1059. Lassus Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:00 PM (#5588394)
Meh. That Kael non-quote is long past its sell date to apply to everything. Or perhaps anything. YMMV.
   1060. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:02 PM (#5588395)

That's not what you wrote, but even that's wrong. Laughably so.
Well, in fact it is what I wrote. But since I am not a troll like you, I admit when I am mistaken. While what Franken did would be a crime in most states, it would likely not be in Minnesota. Minnesota weirdly expressly carves out of their criminal sexual contact statute groping someone's ass through their clothing. (Groping other body parts through clothing would be a crime there, but not the ass.) In NY it would be forcible touching; in NJ criminal sexual contact; in DC sexual abuse; in California sexual battery... but assuming Franken only touched them through their clothing (and they were older than 16) and it happened only in Minnesota, then he would likely not be a criminal.

(As I said before, it's not clear to me what jurisdiction's law would apply on his USO tour, so I can't address that one. But if he actually grabbed Tweeden's breasts rather than merely posing his hand over them, that would be a crime pretty much everywhere.)
   1061. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:03 PM (#5588396)
MSNBC has reversed its decision to fire Sam Seder for his old Roman Polanski tweet.

Seder: “I appreciate MSNBC’s thoughtful reconsideration and willingness to understand the cynical motives of those who intentionally misrepresented my tweet for their own toxic, political purposes. We are experiencing an important and long overdue moment of empowerment for the victims of sexual assault and of reckoning for their perpetrators. I’m proud that MSNBC and its staff have set a clear example of the need to get it right.”
   1062. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:08 PM (#5588397)
This is the next phase. Actresses pointing the finger at other actresses:

Renée Zellweger denies giving ‘sexual favors’ to Harvey Weinstein: ‘He’s full of s--t’

Renée Zellweger is pushing back against a claim that she traded sexual favors to Harvey Weinstein in exchange for more work.

“If Harvey said that, he’s full of s--t,” a rep for the actress said in a statement.

On Wednesday, six women sued Weinstein, claiming that Miramax, The Weinstein Company and its board conspired with the disgraced producer to “perpetuate and conceal widespread sexual harassment and assault.”

In the lawsuit, Melissa Sagemiller, one of the plaintiffs, claimed that Weinstein tried to persuade her to have sex in the summer of 2000, promising he would help her career.

Weinstein allegedly claimed other actresses, including Zellweger and Charlize Theron had made similar arrangements.

Zellweger worked on multiple films with Weinstein, including “Bridget Jones’ Diary,” “Chicago,” “Cold Mountain” and “Miss Potter.”

Theron has not yet commented on the allegations, but said in October she wasn’t surprised as more women accused Weinstein of sexual harassment and assault.


But again setting Zellweger and Theron aside it stands to reason that SOME actresses willingly went along with Weinstein's offerings. He can't have gone 0-for-35-years.
   1063. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:09 PM (#5588398)

Franken is an elected official. No one and nothing can FORCE him to resign. The senate can expel him.
That's sort of a bizarre argument. By definition, a resignation is voluntary; nobody can force anyone to resign from anything. If you force someone to leave any job, the term for that is "firing" (or in the case of a Senator, "expelling"). (I mean, you could literally point a gun at someone and say, "Resign or I'll shoot you," but I assume we're only discussing legal activities.)

Someone pointed out on Twitter that if Franken really believes that what he did isn't a big deal, he could pull a BM and Let the Voters Decide: he could resign and run for the empty seat. If they reelect him, then he can justify staying on. If they reject him, well, then, there you go.
   1064. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:09 PM (#5588399)
It wouldn't be forcible touching in NY state either because the touching has to be for no legitimate purpose and "for the purpose of degrading or abusing such person, or for the purpose of gratifying the actor's sexual desire." It wouldn't be a sex crime in MN either, but not for the reason you stated but because a similar required element to NY is also missing.

It's not a crime to touch a person's body against their will or else I would have been the victim of a crime on the subway today when someone leaned against me to try to get on a car. That alone should have steered you away from the initial claim.
   1065. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:12 PM (#5588400)
This is the next phase. Actresses pointing the finger at other actresses:


Tell us, Dancing Monkey #3, how your excerpt shows "actresses pointing fingers at each other".

Please. Tell us.
   1066. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:13 PM (#5588401)

I don't live in AL, but there's no freaking way I'd vote for Moore. The guy's expendable. It's a joke to me people defend him, same as it was feminists hung behind Bill Clinton (again I don't care if he's a relatively good president, why do we tolerate this crap?). Yeah, Levine was (apparently) a wonderful director for the Met Opera. Thank you for your 40 years of service. Next! It's all unnecessarily disruptive at a minimum.
It's worse than that. Moore is awful substantively as well as personally. At least with Clinton you had people legitimately approving of his job performance. Moore is a disgrace.
   1067. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:14 PM (#5588402)

It wouldn't be forcible touching in NY state either because the touching has to be for no legitimate purpose and "for the purpose of degrading or abusing such person, or for the purpose of gratifying the actor's sexual desire.
Uh, yeah. I know. Which your subway example does not fit, but grabbing someone's ass for fun does.
   1068. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5588403)
It's not a crime to touch a person's body against their will or else I would have been the victim of a crime on the subway today.


You're missing the intent element.
   1069. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5588405)
Ray, that story is t about actresses pointing fingers at each other.
   1070. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:18 PM (#5588406)
Uh, yeah. I know.


Actually, you don't know that because it's wrong. Grabbing someone's ass "for fun" doesn't meet the element of the crime.

Probably best here to just give it up. It's not even close to assault, your initial claim, and it isn't any of the other things you mentioned. There's more to sex crimes than touching someone's ass when she's let you put her arm around her for a picture.
   1071. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:19 PM (#5588407)
Minnesota weirdly expressly carves out of their criminal sexual contact statute groping someone's ass through their clothing.

I must have missed the Minnesota tourism ads promoting that. Maybe they want to keep it to the residents?
   1072. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:20 PM (#5588408)

The Nunes panel has spent much of this year investigating whether DOJ, under then-Attorney General Loretta Lynch, used the dossier to justify a foreign surveillance warrant against Page.
Strangely, I haven't heard anyone make the argument, "If Nunes has been investigating this for a year and hasn't found anything, there must not be anything to find."
   1073. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:24 PM (#5588410)
Ray, that story is t about actresses pointing fingers at each other.


Dancing Monkey #3 is a troll.
   1074. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:26 PM (#5588412)
You're missing the intent element.


They intentionally did it, if that's what you mean.
   1075. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:27 PM (#5588413)
The problem is that even this misses the issue: there can be a billion bloodthirsty NFL fans who like the violence. But it's not really these idiots who matter; if the SPONSORS feel that they have to distance themselves from the NFL the league will die. (Or be played in obscurity like my softball games are.)
If there are a billion bloodthirsty NFL fans, the sponsors won't feel that they have to distance themselves from the NFL. No, the problem isn't sponsors; the problem is trial lawyers. It doesn't take millions of disapproving people to kill the NFL; it takes 12.
   1076. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:28 PM (#5588415)
Empirical SCOTUS has some thoughts on The Next Nominee To The Supreme Court.
   1077. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:32 PM (#5588417)

Weinstein allegedly claimed other actresses, including Zellweger and Charlize Theron had made similar arrangements.
That long NYT expose the other day about Weinstein's efforts over the years to cover up his acts reported that Gwyneth Paltrow -- who says she had turned down Weinstein -- was rather perturbed to learn that Weinstein was going around using her as a selling point to his prey. (You know, along the lines of, "Gwyneth Paltrow had sex with me, and look what I did for her. If you want to have her career, you know what you need to do.")
   1078. zenbitz Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:33 PM (#5588418)
@1063 perhaps it was muddled but it wasn't an argument, just a statement.

I generally agree that if Franken wanted to maintain his behavior was acceptable he could stay in office. I don't think any Senator "takes one for the team" like that.
   1079. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:34 PM (#5588419)

Actually, you don't know that because it's wrong. Grabbing someone's ass "for fun" doesn't meet the element of the crime.
Apparently you don't understand the words "for the purpose of degrading or abusing such person, or for the purpose of gratifying the actor's sexual desire." That's okay; there are lots of other words you don't understand too.
   1080. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:38 PM (#5588421)
Ray, that story is t about actresses pointing fingers at each other.

Dancing Monkey #3 is a troll.


I hope everyone can see -- even though it appears nobody will ever concede the point -- that Joe's only contributions to this board is to call others trolls and names. He offers nothing of substance, ever. He calls people names and engages in trollery. He displays no familiarity with the facts of any issue.

In this case my "pointing fingers at each other" was based on the following excerpt from the plaintiffs' filing and was not based on what *Weinstein* is alleged to have said but is based on what one of the *plaintiffs*, Melissa Sagemiller, said:

88. Sagemiller went to Weinstein’s room at the scheduled time. Weinstein answered the door in his robe. He had poured drinks.

89. Weinstein asked Sagemiller if she would give him a massage, and then he demanded a kiss. In response to her refusal, Weinstein responded that he would not allow her to leave until she kissed and touched him. He blocked the door, placing Sagemiller in fear of an impending assault.

90. Weinstein then told Sagemiller that Renée Zellweger, Charlize Theron and other actresses gave sexual favors. Weinstein asked her, “Don’t you want your career to be more than just this little teen film?”


That is the good faith basis with which I made the statement. Now, that's not quite "pointing fingers at each other," but my statement was shorthand for "the actresses being outed as allegedly complicit are being outed not by Weinstein but by other actresses."
   1081. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:42 PM (#5588422)
No. It’s an actress listing the way in which Weinstein was a broken skeeve and the people he lied about bedding in an attempt to get in other pants saying he was lying.
   1082. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:43 PM (#5588423)
Apparently you don't understand the words "for the purpose of degrading or abusing such person, or for the purpose of gratifying the actor's sexual desire."


No, I do -- that's the problem.
   1083. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:44 PM (#5588425)
Mocking isn't trolling. You're a troll. You made a ridiculous claim that wasn't supported by your excerpt, and then when called on it , you supply more info that MAY back up your original claim. That is trolling and you are a troll, and for that and other things I mock you. Because you're an idiot. And a troll. And a Dancing Monkey. Dancing Monkey #3, in fact.
   1084. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:48 PM (#5588426)

You're missing the intent element.

They intentionally did it, if that's what you mean.


That's not what intent means in this context. They have to have had the requisite mens rea to commit the crime. So if you're riding the subway and it comes to a sudden stop and in an effort to prevent yourself from falling backwards you wrap your arms around a woman's waist touching her rear end, you haven't committed sexual assault.
   1085. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:50 PM (#5588427)
And a Dancing Monkey. Dancing Monkey #3, in fact.


Yawn. Don't you have medicine to take?
   1086. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:50 PM (#5588428)
Random thought: Weinstein's got to have tapes somewhere of these encounters, doesn't he?
   1087. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:51 PM (#5588429)
Yawn. Don't you have medicine to take?


Laughter is the best medicine, Dancing Monkey #3. Keep up bringing the unintentional funny, you dolt.
   1088. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:51 PM (#5588430)
Just curious: Who are Dancing Monkeys #1 and #2?
   1089. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:53 PM (#5588431)
Mocking isn't trolling.
Anything designed to hijack the conversation to yourself is trolling, and that's all you're doing at this point.
   1090. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:53 PM (#5588433)
Clapper is #1. SBB is #2. Ray is #3, but Jason is making a good push for overtaking him. TGF is #5, but he has potential. He just needs to participate more and I'm sure he could shoot up to #3 with little effort. But for now, those are the rankings.
   1091. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:55 PM (#5588435)

No, I do -- that's the problem.
Oh, so you were lying rather than being stupid? Possible. I mean, it's always hard to tell with you. (And as always, "both" is a likely answer.). But in fact grabbing women's asses in the Franken context fits that description, while squeezing against you solely to fit onto a subway car does not.
   1092. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:55 PM (#5588436)
No. It’s an actress listing the way in which Weinstein was a broken skeeve and the people he lied about bedding in an attempt to get in other pants saying he was lying.


So he was never successful in getting a single actress to go willingly to his casting couch, in 35 years?
   1093. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:55 PM (#5588437)
Anything designed to hijack the conversation to yourself is trolling, and that's all your doing at this point.


I disagree. I'm unwilling to engage Dancing Monkeys on any level that they wouldn't find offensive. That's not trolling, that's mockery. Your opinion is noted, however.
   1094. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:56 PM (#5588439)
Clapper is #1. SBB is #2. Ray is #3, but Jason is making a good push for overtaking him. TGF is #5, but he has potential. He just needs to participate more and I'm sure he could shoot up to #3 with little effort. But for now, those are the rankings.

Wait, there's five dancing monkeys designated and Sam doesn't make the list? How does that happen?

   1095. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:57 PM (#5588441)
So he was never successful in getting a single actress to go willingly to his casting couch, in 35 years?


Clueless idiot, what makes him desirable other than his ability to further a career? That's coercion. Moron.
   1096. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5588443)
Wait, there's five dancing monkeys designated and Sam doesn't make the list? How does that happen?

You're auditioning to be #6, I see.
   1097. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:00 PM (#5588446)
And Weinstein has had SO MANY long term consensual relationships with beautiful actresses (none, actually, but, whatever, the Raybot thinks he's making a point here...)

Dumbass.
   1098. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:01 PM (#5588447)
They have to have had the requisite mens rea to commit the crime.


They do. But the underlying act isn't a crime. They intentionally put their arm on my body, without my consent, for the purpose of shoving me forward into the subway. And so shoved.

But it isn't a crime (or anything else) to simply intentionally touch someone's body against their will.
   1099. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:02 PM (#5588448)
You're auditioning to be #6, I see.

I don't give a f**k. I just don't see how you can put together a list of regular OTP posters to be mocked for general absurdity or whatever and not include Sam. He's batshit insane.
   1100. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 07, 2017 at 09:04 PM (#5588449)
But in fact grabbing women's asses in the Franken context fits that description,


It doesn't get any more true on the 25th repetition.
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