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Tuesday, December 05, 2017

OTP 04 December 2017: Baseball group accused of ‘united front’ tactics

New Power Party (NPP) Legislator Hsu Yung-ming (徐永明) said that the baseball association should bear the brunt of the blame for letting Taiwanese players become political tools in China’s “united front” strategy and for giving Chinese media an opportunity to promote the “both sides of the Strait are one family” view without restraint.

China is not a top-tier nation in baseball and positive effects on Taiwanese baseball from the tournament would be limited, Hsu said.

The Chinese Taipei Baseball Association should not go along with China, he said, adding that the Sports Administration should investigate whether the association accepted financial aid and whether it reported issues to the government in advance.

“The government should clearly standardize the guidelines for cross-strait sports exchanges,” Hsu added.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 05, 2017 at 08:57 AM | 1746 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: china, politics, taiwan

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   201. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 12:02 AM (#5587011)
flop
   202. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 12:06 AM (#5587012)

I would think a libertarian would be against a tax code loaded with exemptions. Seems like more government to me. If you must tax, tax at a flat rate at least?
I don't know if liberals are just really bad at understanding the concept of libertarianism, or are insincere, but I keep seeing arguments from them of the form, "I would think libertarians would oppose X as more government" when X is most obviously not more government. The concept of tax exempt organizations might be good or bad policy, but one thing it is indisputably not is "more government." Having more private institutions outside the grasping hands of government revenuers is obviously not unlibertarian.

Certainly, I don't want the government picking winners and losers, whether directly or through the tax code. But saying that all lines of business and all businesses should be treated the same is an entirely different issue than saying that entities that aren't in the business world at all should be taxed.
   203. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 06, 2017 at 12:14 AM (#5587013)
Agree with Count: "The Seder joke was funny and pointed *and* politically correct!" It's always a good idea to identify the actual target of a joke before deciding to be existentially offended by it.

There are numerous rape jokes that are funny/wounded groan or funny/hilarious, sometimes both. I could cite a dozen without taking a breath. Mel Brooks has a top rape joke in each of his three greatest movies. Sarah Silverman has told more A+ rape jokes than Jeff Dunham has jokes. There's been great and/or biting rape comedy from Monty Python, the Onion, MST3K, National Lampoon, Woody Allen, Sam Kinison, George Carlin, Sacha Baron Cohen, Anthony Jesilnik, Norm Macdonald, Ricky Gervais, Louis CK, Looney Tunes, "South Park," "Airplane," "Tootsie"... already that's way over a dozen examples. (You may notice that there aren't a whole lot of Jimmy Fallons and Kathy Griffins on that list.)

Where rape jokes have trouble justifying their place in the world is on that second tier of comedy results. The adequate level, where passable humor can get approval. Nobody wants to applaud a so-so rape joke. If you're going to do a rape joke, you'd better be skilled, smart, trenchant, and confident that the quality makes it worth the likelihood of undiscriminating backlash.
   204. Jay Z Posted: December 06, 2017 at 01:05 AM (#5587015)
I don't know if liberals are just really bad at understanding the concept of libertarianism, or are insincere, but I keep seeing arguments from them of the form, "I would think libertarians would oppose X as more government" when X is most obviously not more government. The concept of tax exempt organizations might be good or bad policy, but one thing it is indisputably not is "more government." Having more private institutions outside the grasping hands of government revenuers is obviously not unlibertarian.

Certainly, I don't want the government picking winners and losers, whether directly or through the tax code. But saying that all lines of business and all businesses should be treated the same is an entirely different issue than saying that entities that aren't in the business world at all should be taxed.


Yes, it is more government. My question is in a revenue neutral way, how can a libertarian be in favor of tax-exempt status? Every dollar that a tax-exempt entity is not paying is going to be paid for by someone else. It is going to be matched dollar for dollar. So the "grasping hands" are missing nothing in my example, they are just taking more of what's left.
   205. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 01:17 AM (#5587017)
So no discussion of the whole moving the embassy to Jerusalem thing today?


I’m there right now. Bit of tension in the air. Interesting times.

Still plan on returning in one piece.
   206. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: December 06, 2017 at 02:12 AM (#5587021)
Of course they didn't fire him because it wasn't funny they fired him for the reasons you listed. I have absolutely zero problem with corporations looking out for their own good and neither should you. Especially neither should you. If you want to be "edgy" and you're a public figure then watch out. It's why I never, ever tweet anything even remotely other than "watch out for this new spyware" on my official business twitter.


I've literally seen some of the exact same people fuming about Sam Seder being fired also being the ones demanding Justine Sacco be fired a few years ago for a similarly distasteful, intentionally over-the-top joke.
   207. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 02:14 AM (#5587022)
Yes, it is more government.
No, it's not. (I don't think this is getting us anywhere.) Generally speaking, the measure of the quantity of government is spending.

My question is in a revenue neutral way, how can a libertarian be in favor of tax-exempt status? Every dollar that a tax-exempt entity is not paying is going to be paid for by someone else.
There are multiple errors in that argument, but the first is that even if this were true, it wouldn't support the underlying statement about "more government." Your claim is an argument about the distribution of the burden of taxation -- not the overall level of taxation. But it's wrong anyway because a libertarian doesn't start with the premise that everyone's money belongs to the government, and that the government not taking someone's is some sort of gift to that person. It's not the case that every dollar not stolen from a tax-exempt entity is going to be paid for by someone else. Every dollar not stolen from a tax-exempt entity is one less dollar for the government. We don't "make up for" tax exemptions by raising taxes on others. Rather, it's just less money for the government.
   208. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: December 06, 2017 at 04:23 AM (#5587024)
Isn't he the one who's led Israel out of international isolation and presided over a booming economy?

Replace 'Israel' with 'Germany' and this could be a defense of Hitler. Doesn't make Hitler not terrible...
   209. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: December 06, 2017 at 04:34 AM (#5587025)
There are multiple errors in that argument, but the first is that even if this were true, it wouldn't support the underlying statement about "more government." Your claim is an argument about the distribution of the burden of taxation -- not the overall level of taxation. But it's wrong anyway because a libertarian doesn't start with the premise that everyone's money belongs to the government, and that the government not taking someone's is some sort of gift to that person. It's not the case that every dollar not stolen from a tax-exempt entity is going to be paid for by someone else. Every dollar not stolen from a tax-exempt entity is one less dollar for the government. We don't "make up for" tax exemptions by raising taxes on others. Rather, it's just less money for the government.

This is pie in the sky "If Libertarians Were In Power This Is How Things Would Be" reasoning. Libertarians are not in power, or going to be within the lifetime of anybody here, therefore it is complete nonsense. The government does not care what Libertarians think. Not one bit. There is no "less money" for the government, just because you will it. The government sets its spending first, and then figures out how to pay for it. It very much is the case, that every dollar not "stolen" from a tax-exempt entity is going to be paid for by someone else. Whether you will it or not.

The question is, given that fact, how should that money be "stolen", and from whom. If you want to say "not from tax-exempt" entities, then you have to accept the fact that this means it is going to be "stolen" from others.
   210. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 06:22 AM (#5587027)
I don't know that "fascist" is quite the right word, but I'd say that government employees plotting against their appointed leadership and hiding their activities from their bosses with secret communications is... undesirable.


Another norm taken for granted for decades -- an essentially apolitical professional civil service -- starts to badly fray.

But *Donald Trump* is the one shattering norms.

Uh-huh. Sure.
   211. Morty Causa Posted: December 06, 2017 at 06:37 AM (#5587029)
Trump acts like a wildcatter. (Let's drill here. My scrotum itches.) He's got no sense of organization. He does everything from the seat of his pants, kind of like James Garner in The Wheeler Dealers. That apparently worked in his other life to some extent. That's not how to a big government works (or Exxon for that matter--he could ask Tillerson about that). He's reduced the presidency to a bad joke, the kind where if he worked for big corporation he'd be fired. Our allies don't respect us, and our enemies don't fear us. That's not good. The world doesn't, and shouldn't, run like a casino.
   212. manchestermets Posted: December 06, 2017 at 06:51 AM (#5587031)
Generally speaking, the measure of the quantity of government is spending.


The more complex a tax system is, the more it will cost to administer it, surely? And whether you like those specific exemptions or not, exemptions for certain organisations are additional complexity.
   213. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 06, 2017 at 06:55 AM (#5587032)
"For many pedophiles, it’s impossible to make ends meet. These sex criminals are often shunned both socially and professionally, making it extremely difficult for them to find any sort of gainful employment. But now a group called the GOP is trying to change all that: This amazing organization helps disgraced pedophiles rebuild their lives by getting them elected to political office."


Their new logo is also fitting.
   214. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 06, 2017 at 07:48 AM (#5587035)

Their new logo is also fitting.

RTG, you're the third person who's linked to that new GOP logo. May there be many more, since it's the perfect expression of what today's GOP is willing to tolerate. Telnaes should get a Pulitzer for it.
   215. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:10 AM (#5587038)
People not named Trump like to preserve their credibility. Catching them in outright lies doesn't do that. But at the same time he needs to please his boss.


Plus, by issuing this carfully worded, but strong denial, they get useful idiots like our very own bear to proclaim loudly "Fake news". The low information voters who make up Trump's base will lap it up.
   216. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:11 AM (#5587039)
Generally speaking, the measure of the quantity of government is spending.


This is crazy, by the way. I mean I am not a Libertarian, so the Libertarians out in the world can define their own terminology however they want, but in non-Libertopia spending is only one part of the government.

Governments can grow larger in impact without spending more. If one were to reduce the military by 90%, take half the savings and reduce taxes (or the debt, whatever) and then take the other half and spend on new laws, regulations, licensing and so on there would be less spending, but it would be a much more interventionist government.

If David wants to suggest it would be smaller, OK, then maybe he and I can agree on "shrinking" the government by reducing the military and using some of the savings as described. My support depends on the details, but hey smaller government!

But if that is not what you meant, if spending is only a very rough guide, then, well OK, but for example Social Security has a very low "footprint" based on the money spent, while other part of the government are much larger.
   217. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:22 AM (#5587043)
Regarding the Jerusalem change, I am personally agnostic on the issue. However, when I look at all the administrations that kept the US status quo and compare them to the administration that decided to change the status quo - well my money is that the Dumpster Fire administration has likely made a mistake.

Pretty much everything they do is likely wrong, but especially going against the precedent of multiple administrations on both sides - yeah the odds they are right and everyone else was wrong are pretty low IMO. Still, I hope I am both wrong and pleasantly surprised.
   218. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:29 AM (#5587045)
This is crazy, by the way. I mean I am not a Libertarian, so the Libertarians out in the world can define their own terminology however they want, but in non-Libertopia spending is only one part of the government.

Governments can grow larger in impact without spending more. If one were to reduce the military by 90%, take half the savings and reduce taxes (or the debt, whatever) and then take the other half and spend on new laws, regulations, licensing and so on there would be less spending, but it would be a much more interventionist government.

If David wants to suggest it would be smaller, OK, then maybe he and I can agree on "shrinking" the government by reducing the military and using some of the savings as described. My support depends on the details, but hey smaller government!

But if that is not what you meant, if spending is only a very rough guide, then, well OK, but for example Social Security has a very low "footprint" based on the money spent, while other part of the government are much larger.

Hell, many terrible instances of government growing to far are actually revenue generators - the opposite of spending. Things like civil asset forfeiture are an abomination, and among the worst examples of "big" government.
   219. McCoy Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:31 AM (#5587046)
In other news the Trump administration wants to change the tipping laws so that the employer can control to whom the tips go to.
   220. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:41 AM (#5587048)
Trump Thinks Shutdown Might Be Good for Him

President Trump “has concluded that a government shutdown might be good for him politically and is focusing on his hard-line immigration stance as a way to win back supporters unhappy with his outreach to Democrats this fall,” the Washington Post reports.


GOP Lawmakers Don’t Think Shutdown Will Help Them

Playbook notes: “You won’t find many Republicans on Capitol Hill who think that a shutdown is good for them.”


Voters Warn Against a Government Shutdown

A new Politico/Morning Consult poll finds 63% say members of Congress should should avoid a government shutdown at all costs. Only 18% of voters surveyed say members should allow a temporary government shutdown if it helps them achieve their policy goals. The remaining 19% of voters are undecided.
   221. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:43 AM (#5587049)
Subpoena for Trump Financial Records Confirmed

Though President Trump’s lawyers deny a subpoena had been issued to Deutsche Bank for the president’s financial records, the Wall Street Journal confirms earlier reports that one had been given.
   222. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:47 AM (#5587050)
Moving the embassy is a sop to the same American jihadi base that’s going to vote the pedo into the senate.
   223. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:48 AM (#5587051)

This is crazy, by the way. I mean I am not a Libertarian, so the Libertarians out in the world can define their own terminology however they want, but in non-Libertopia spending is only one part of the government.

Governments can grow larger in impact without spending more. If one were to reduce the military by 90%, take half the savings and reduce taxes (or the debt, whatever) and then take the other half and spend on new laws, regulations, licensing and so on there would be less spending, but it would be a much more interventionist government.
Look, if you want to willfully misinterpret what I say so you can pull a gotcha a la SBB, go ahead. If I said, "Generally speaking, the number of laws is a measure of the size of government," and you said, "Oh yeah? What if they erased all the laws on the books and just passed one law saying, 'Anything the government wants you to do is required and everything else is forbidden"? That would be fewer laws but bigger government! What do you have to say about that? Huh? Huh?"

Yes, it's possible to have a worse, more intrusive government with less spending. That's why I said "generally" rather than calling it a hard and fast rule. There are cases that don't exist in U.S. politics where the generality doesn't hold.
   224. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:49 AM (#5587052)

actually revenue generators - the opposite of spending
Huh? Revenue generation is the complement of spending, not the opposite.
   225. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:50 AM (#5587053)
In other news the Trump administration wants to change the tipping laws so that the employer can control to whom the tips go to.


Including the employer*.

More populism!

I'm tired of those fatcat waiters and waitresses - most of whom are just underage hussies trying to entrap men of Jesus anyway! Elitists!

*Back in the late 90s - under the rules Trump wants to put back in pace - waiting tables for a chain, we pooled tips on weekends.... and the house took 10% (whether that went in the manager's pocket or facility take, IDK). You're damn right I hated when people tipped on credit cards.
   226. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:51 AM (#5587054)
Though President Trump’s lawyers deny a subpoena had been issued to Deutsche Bank for the president’s financial records, the Wall Street Journal confirms earlier reports that one had been given.


I guess this means SBB, Sekulow, and girl spicey will be getting four week suspensions...
   227. Lassus Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:52 AM (#5587055)
Subpoena for Trump Financial Records Confirmed - Though President Trump’s lawyers deny a subpoena had been issued to Deutsche Bank for the president’s financial records, the Wall Street Journal confirms earlier reports that one had been given.

Curious if Mr. F. News, esq. will show up to correct himself.
   228. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:52 AM (#5587056)
Look, if you want to willfully misinterpret what I say so you can pull a gotcha a la SBB, go ahead.


I didn't willfully misinterpret. I interpreted. I even said "But if that is not what you meant, if spending is only a very rough guide, then, well OK", but perhaps I should have been more clear in my qualifier.

I would have thought spending would be behind regulatory intrusion on the list of governmental evil as per Libertarians - but I am not a Libertarian expert.
   229. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:55 AM (#5587058)
More charges could be coming against former Trump aide in Russia probe

Robert Mueller may not be through with Rick Gates, a deputy Trump campaign aide and one of the four people who have been charged as part of the special counsel probe into Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

In a court appearance Monday in Manhattan, Gates' attorney Walter Mack said that federal prosecutors have told him that more charges, called superseding indictments, may be coming.


And the Mueller investigation just keeps slowly grinding along.
   230. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:55 AM (#5587059)
Plus, by issuing this carfully worded, but strong denial, they get useful idiots like our very own bear to proclaim loudly "Fake news".


??

It *was* fake news.
   231. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:56 AM (#5587060)
Though President Trump’s lawyers deny a subpoena had been issued to Deutsche Bank for the president’s financial records, the Wall Street Journal confirms earlier reports that one had been given.


But not for the president, i.e., the critical point. The reporting has gone from a subpoena for "financial records of the president" to merely a subpoena "concerning people or entities affiliated with the president." Even the "financial records" part has come out -- no surprise, given that I believe (though am not going to do the legwork; the PATRIOT Act may have changed this) the RFPA still requires customer notice if an agency seeks customer financial records in an investigation.

Another embarrassment for the press.
   232. Lassus Posted: December 06, 2017 at 08:58 AM (#5587062)
It *was* fake news.

Are you responding to the WSJ in #221?


But not for the president, i.e., the critical point.

OK, er, I would interpret the end of that quoted sentence to mean that "one had been given" for the president's financial records. No?


EDIT: I see what you mean prior to the WSJ fading out my ability (or willingness) to read the rest of it.
   233. McCoy Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:02 AM (#5587066)
Including the employer*.

More populism!

I'm tired of those fatcat waiters and waitresses - most of whom are just underage hussies trying to entrap men of Jesus anyway! Elitists!

*Back in the late 90s - under the rules Trump wants to put back in pace - waiting tables for a chain, we pooled tips on weekends.... and the house took 10% (whether that went in the manager's pocket or facility take, IDK). You're damn right I hated when people tipped on credit card


They should just do away with tipping. If people want to give other people some money fine but there shouldn't be a line on the credit card receipt for it and the employees should get paid a salary that doesn't factor in tipping.
   234. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:03 AM (#5587067)
Are you responding to the WSJ in #221?


221 quoted a blogger who interpreted the linked WSJ story completely wrong.

OK, er, I would interpret the end of that quoted sentence to mean that "one had been given" for the president's financial records. No?


I don't care what a blogger who can't read said.
   235. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:03 AM (#5587068)
But not for the president, i.e., the critical point. The reporting has gone from a subpoena for "financial records of the president" to merely a subpoena "concerning people or entities affiliated with the president." Even the "financial records" part has come out -- no surprise, given that I believe (though am not going to do the legwork; the PATRIOT Act may have changed this) the RFPA still requires customer notice if an agency seeks customer financial records in an investigation.


Wait, you mean plutocrats - especially plutocrats engaged in malfeasance - may not be sluicing the cash through a personal checking account?
   236. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:04 AM (#5587069)
OK, er, I would interpret the end of that quoted sentence to mean that "one had been given" for the president's financial records. No?


He is just grasping at straws. Every news report out there specifically includes the President.

Bloomberg (for example) - "Mueller issued a subpoena to Germany’s largest lender several weeks ago, forcing the bank to submit documents on its relationship with Trump and his family, according to a person briefed on the matter, who asked not to be identified because the action has not been announced."

But of course no one here knows exactly what was requested, yet.
   237. BrianBrianson Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:06 AM (#5587070)
Indeed - as long as the embassy moves to West Jerusalem and the pronouncement doesn't use a word like "Unifed", it really changes nothing, and the people posturing would posture about anything before they even know what it was, so I don't see why you'd care.

East Jerusalem, or "United Jerusalem is Israel's Capital" does change things, although as long as the people opposing it insist on the obviously unworkable two state solution as the way forward, I don't see that there's much point in trying to cater to them.
   238. Count Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:14 AM (#5587075)
It's at best pointless and inflammatory. What is your non two state solution?
   239. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:17 AM (#5587078)
"Mueller issued a subpoena to Germany’s largest lender several weeks ago, forcing the bank to submit documents on its relationship with Trump and his family, according to a person briefed on the matter, who asked not to be identified because the action has not been announced."


Which is a million miles away from "the president's financial records."

Just like the Flynn thing, we have another example of someone telling the press something that is nominally true, exaggerating it, the press running with it, only to later have to walk it almost entirely back.
   240. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:18 AM (#5587079)
It's at best pointless and inflammatory.


It's almost as if there's a theme to Trump...
   241. BrianBrianson Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:20 AM (#5587080)
It's inflammatory if everything is inflammatory to you. So, like, no difference.

The only solution that doesn't involve "slaughter millions of people" is (some updated version of) the three state solution that worked quite well from 1949-1967.
   242. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:32 AM (#5587089)
In other news the Trump administration wants to change the tipping laws so that the employer can control to whom the tips go to.
Nope. Yet another misunderstanding of what's happening in a legal context.

As an initial matter, let me point out that under our labor laws, there's no federal preemption, so any state law that provides more restrictions on employers will control regardless of what Trump does. (So, for instance, what you're referring to would have zero effect in the state of NY, since NYLL § 196 strictly controls the distribution of tips.). Now, on to substance. The Fair Labor Standards Act sets (in essence) two different minimum wages. One is for normal employees ($7.25, currently) and a much lower one for tipped employees ($2.13). An employer can pay as little as $2.13 if it jumps through the right hoops and the employee gets a sufficient amount in tips so that its wages+tips combined are at least at the $7.25 floor. One of the prerequisites for paying the lower tipped minimum wage is that tipped employees keep all of the tips. The employer can create a tip pool, or require the employees to tip out other tippable employees, but no portion of those tips may be shared with management or any non-tipped employee. So if, e.g., management gives 5% of tips to the dishwasher (a non-tippable position) at the restaurant, then the employer cannot claim the tip credit, and must pay all workers the full $7.25 per hour; if it has been paying less it's liable for the difference. However, the FLSA (unlike, e.g., NY) doesn't impose any restrictions on the distribution of the tips as long as everyone is paid $7.25 per hour. The employer can keep a portion -- or all -- of the tips if it wants. (The only limits are imposed by the market; you're not going to find any waiters to hire if you don't let them keep tips.)

But, in 2011 the Obama DOL¹ issued a regulation that made the system more like NY's, saying that employers couldn't control any portion of tips no matter what, even if the employer paid the full $7.25. Every single court to consider the matter -- except the Ninth Circuit, over a vigorous dissent -- has said that the regulation in question was unlawful, invalid, and unenforceable, that the DOL had no statutory authority to issue such a rule. As a result, the regulation has essentially not been in effect, outside of the west coast. Trump is planning to repeal that mostly-unenforceable regulation, keeping the status quo everywhere other than the west coast (and returning the west coast to the way things were up until 2011). For other legal reasons, even on the west coast the new regulation was rarely enforced.


TL;DR: Trump is simply proposing to repeal an unenforceable and almost entirely unenforced regulation, maintaining the status quo.



¹Leftists who complain that Obama was too centrist or the like are basically ignorant people who don't understand that most government control of the economy in the U.S. is done by regulatory agencies, not by statute. They see that Obama didn't pass major laws in a lot of areas and think he didn't do stuff. But his agencies, particularly in the labor and employment fields, went crazy with regulation.
   243. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:33 AM (#5587090)
Wait, you mean plutocrats - especially plutocrats engaged in malfeasance - may not be sluicing the cash through a personal checking account?


Well, it's SBB. In that he "means" anything - meaning is a nebulous concept for trolls - he means "what bullshit can I vomit up today to defend and deflect for my authoritarian overlords."
   244. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5587091)
Indeed - as long as the embassy moves to West Jerusalem and the pronouncement doesn't use a word like "Unifed", it really changes nothing, and the people posturing would posture about anything before they even know what it was, so I don't see why you'd care.


As I said I don't really care one way or the other, but my question is if your presentation of the situation is accurate and complete, why did none of the previous administrations take this step? Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama - there is plenty of differences there, and in general I trust their collective opinion over Trump's.
   245. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:38 AM (#5587093)

"Mueller issued a subpoena to Germany’s largest lender several weeks ago, forcing the bank to submit documents on its relationship with Trump and his family, according to a person briefed on the matter, who asked not to be identified because the action has not been announced."

Which is a million miles away from "the president's financial records."
No, it's actually the same thing as the president's financial records. It may not be all the president's financial records, but it is his financial records.
   246. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:38 AM (#5587094)
Swamp? What swamp? Republican tax bill polling at a disastrous 29 percent support in two consecutive polls

Two polls of GOP tax plan today with near identical results.

Gallup: 29% approve, 56% disapprove

Quinnipiac: 29% approve, 53% disapprove


Those are bad numbers. Really bad. I guess the GOP believes it is totally worth it to keep the donor class happy. Bought and paid for indeed.
   247. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:41 AM (#5587096)
It may not be all the president's financial records, but it is his financial records.


No, actually it's not. Those things have both legal definitions (for RFPA purposes) and common parlance meanings. The common parlance meanings are things like his bank account statements and the like. People don't typically refer to things like a mortgage on their house, or the note they signed to the bank, as "their financial records." You could squint and stretch and pedant your way to perhaps technically fitting it in the definition, but at that point we're far away from the actual usage.

   248. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5587098)
And obviously the underlying "principle" that you can't run for office or are somehow compromised if a bank in a foreign country has bought a loan you owe is preposterous, much in the same vein as the "principle" that you can't run for office or are somehow compromised if you've met with foreign nationals or have foreign clients.
   249. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:49 AM (#5587100)
Those are bad numbers. Really bad. I guess the GOP believes it is totally worth it to keep the donor class happy. Bought and paid for indeed.


Imagine the polling numbers once everyone finishing deciphering the margin scrawls!
   250. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:50 AM (#5587101)
When responding last night to David's assertion that Trump's announcement regarding Jerusalem is no big deal, I forgot to mention the recently decided Supreme Court case involving passports; now, new US passports for those born in Jerusalem will say "Israel."

One more thing: It's a big F-U to Obama's abstention of UNSCR 2334.
   251. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:52 AM (#5587102)
As I said I don't really care one way or the other, but my question is if your presentation of the situation is accurate and complete, why did none of the previous administrations take this step? Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama - there is plenty of differences there, and in general I trust their collective opinion over Trump's.


Because doing so alienates pretty much every government in the region EXCEPT Israel. But it polls well with the Christian Dominionist base that is the core nutwing support for Team Cockholster, and it distracts them from the fact that the GOP is ####### them over repeatedly with tax policy. Bread and circuses.
   252. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:53 AM (#5587103)
Imagine the polling numbers once everyone finishing deciphering the margin scrawls!


I don't have a WSJ subscription, but ... Link. WSJ Link.

The Wall Street Journal's Kate Davidson and Joshua Jamerson have a great rundown of pet provisions that mysteriously snuck into the Senate bill at the last minute, including:

A favor for mortgage servicers from Mike Rounds
A favor for car dealerships from Rand Paul
A favor for the cruise ship industry from Dan Sullivan
A favor for the oil and gas industry from John Cornyn


Aside: Hey Andy, SBB has gone entertainingly insane again, claiming that financial records are not really financial records, because of reasons and stuff. I am not totally sure it is worth taking him off ignore, but it is really funny.
   253. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:54 AM (#5587104)
One more thing: It's an overt US repudiation of Obama


Another primary reason for Trump to do it. Because his only driving instinct is to erase the Jungle Savage from history.
   254. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:56 AM (#5587106)
Because doing so alienates pretty much every government in the region EXCEPT Israel.


That is the obvious answer, but I am curious as to what Brian, son of Brian thinks.

To me it seems like a classic little upside, massive down side play that Trump seems to glory in, but the ME is so screwed up and has been for so long that I can see making a case that "do the opposite of what has been done" is actually maybe rational. Maybe.
   255. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:56 AM (#5587107)

It's at best pointless and inflammatory. What is your non two state solution?
It's at worst pointless and inflammatory. At best, it advances the peace process by letting the Palestinians know that the US isn't going to play Let's Pretend anymore, and that if they want peace they need to face reality.
   256. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:57 AM (#5587109)
While Feinstein, a Jerusalem embassy move supporter before Trump became POTUS, attacks Trump from the left, Schumer appears to be needling him from the right, saying he shouldn't be issuing any more waivers.
   257. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:57 AM (#5587110)
When responding last night to David's assertion that Trump's announcement regarding Jerusalem is no big deal,
That's not what I said; the thing I indicated that was no big deal was his proposal about the embassy.
   258. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5587112)
To me it seems like a classic little upside, massive down side play that Trump seems to glory in, but the ME is so screwed up and has been for so long that I can see making a case that "do the opposite of what has been done" is actually maybe rational. Maybe.
The folks who put the Iranian regime on a glide path toward nuclear weapons and regional dominance are afraid of acknowledging the reality that, at the barest of minimums, western Jerusalem will always be in Israel's hands?

Too funny. Too, too funny.
   259. BrianBrianson Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5587113)
I mean, that's probably the biggest reason, although the amount which it "alienates" vs "gives an opportunity to piss and moan" is debatable. I dunno - there may be practical reasons as well, starting with the obvious - doing nothing requires no work, and thus is the easiest thing to do. But when the consequences of a move are actually minimal, the motivations to do it are also minimal. Like, if your reaction is "Oh my god, who the hell cares?!" - well, then you can't much motivate doing it, nor much motivate not doing it.
   260. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:00 AM (#5587115)
That's not what I said; the thing I indicated that was no big deal was his proposal about the embassy.
Fair enough.
   261. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:01 AM (#5587117)
The heart and soul of the 2017 Republican Party speaks:

Bannon rails against Romney in Alabama speech: ‘You hid behind your religion’ to avoid Vietnam
“Judge Roy Moore has more honor and integrity in that pinkie finger than your entire family has in its whole DNA,” Bannon said in his 30-minute speech at Oak Hollow Farm. “You hid behind your religion. You went to France to be a missionary while guys were dying in rice paddies in Vietnam. Do not talk to me about honor and integrity,” he said, referencing Romney’s Mormon faith.

But please tell us how there's a straight line from cracks about #bindersofwomen to this garbage. You guys voted Donald Trump to lead your party. You're going to vote an impeached judge with credible allegations of molestation into the Senate and Steve Bannon speaks for your base. No whataboutism. No Democrats did this or that. This is modern Republicanism.
   262. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:06 AM (#5587118)
The folks who put the Iranian regime on a glide path toward nuclear weapons and regional dominance is afraid of acknowledging the reality that, at the barest of minimums, western Jerusalem will always be in Israel's hands?


Sigh. Did you even bother to read my posts on the subject? Clearly not because my feelings (again) are the subject at hand* are "I don't care much" and also "but I trust the last several administrations way more than this one and they all kept the status quo", with a side of "But the region is so screwed up with that status quo, so that is why I am currently agnostic."

Only you would read it as you did and then try to make this about Iran. Sometimes dude you are a tool.

* Note: The subject at hand is not Iran. But whatever.
   263. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:07 AM (#5587120)
In other news the Trump administration wants to change the tipping laws so that the employer can control to whom the tips go to.


Who told you this? Vox?
   264. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:09 AM (#5587122)

This is pie in the sky "If Libertarians Were In Power This Is How Things Would Be" reasoning. Libertarians are not in power, or going to be within the lifetime of anybody here, therefore it is complete nonsense. The government does not care what Libertarians think. Not one bit. There is no "less money" for the government, just because you will it. The government sets its spending first, and then figures out how to pay for it. It very much is the case, that every dollar not "stolen" from a tax-exempt entity is going to be paid for by someone else. Whether you will it or not.
You have this backwards. If libertarians were in power, that is how things would work; we would decide what's a legitimate function of government, figure out how much it would cost, and then raise that much money. But in this world, they set their spending first and then spend it, without any connection to whether they have the money. That’s why they continually have to raise the debt ceiling. If they repealed the concept of tax exemption, they wouldn't say, "Okay, we can lower everyone else's taxes because we're getting this money in"; they would say, "Great. What can we spend this new money on"?
   265. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:10 AM (#5587123)
But please tell us how there's a straight line from cracks about #bindersofwomen to this garbage. You guys voted Donald Trump to lead your party. You're going to vote an impeached judge with credible allegations of molestation into the Senate and Steve Bannon speaks for your base. No whataboutism. No Democrats did this or that. This is modern Republicanism.
Wow, Bivens' prescriptions sure do get around. "You're going to vote an impeached judge" is about those in Alabama casting votes, fella, not me.

It's worth noting too that Bannon's the only one of note who stuck out his neck for Moore. Not wanting to look ineffective after losing with Strange, Trump extended his endorsement only after it became evident that Jones' chances were fading. Similarly, McConnell's behavior, while cowardly, is merely a reflection of that reality.

And of course, kudos to folks in the Senate who have much to lose like Gardner and Sasse for continuing to openly express their disgust.
   266. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:12 AM (#5587126)
It's at worst pointless and inflammatory. At best, it advances the peace process by letting the Palestinians know that the US isn't going to play Let's Pretend anymore, and that if they want peace they need to face reality.


And David's "less government" beliefs magically disappear.
   267. BrianBrianson Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5587127)
If libertarians were in power, that is how things would work; we would decide what's a legitimate function of government, figure out how much it would cost, and then raise that much money.


This is also true of non-Libertarians. Mostly, in practice, once you figure out how much it would cost, you realize that's more than you can actually raise, so you're forced to pivot to the question of how much you can afford.
   268. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:14 AM (#5587128)
* Note: The subject at hand is not Iran. But whatever.
It is about Iran, Obtuse Mouse. It's true that, often when confronted with facts, you seem to fall back on the "I don't care" line, but anyone (whether it's you, Brian, or whomever) who backed the nuke deal and shrugged over Iran's regional expansion has no standing to clutch their chest in horror over an embassy move.
   269. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:15 AM (#5587131)
Who told you this? Vox?


Lots of people are reporting it, Ray. Here's a wire report from Reuters, for example.
   270. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:15 AM (#5587132)
But in this world, they set their spending first and then spend it, without any connection to whether they have the money. That’s why they continually have to raise the debt ceiling.


Weird causality aside, fiat currency means the Federal government always has the money to do what they want. There are consequences to spending the money, to piling up the debt (both good and bad consequences).

And of course the reason they raise the debt ceiling is dumb. the whole construct of a debt ceiling is silly, especially since they just raise it anyway and if they don't it would be disaster. If you don't like the spending then pass laws to spend less. If there is not enough revenue then pass laws to raise more. But screwing around with the ridiculous debt ceiling is just dumb on every level.

* Yes, there are good consequences to having US debt around. One example is there are many people who want to loan money, invest it, in a super safe way. They want a liquid market where they can put money in, know it will be safe, and be able to pull money out easily. If the US Treasury debt market were to disappear, the debt were to magically go away, it would actually be a huge problem until alternate markets evolved able to handle the volume.
   271. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:15 AM (#5587134)
"You're going to vote an impeached judge" is about those in Alabama casting votes, fella, not me.


You support the party that supports the pedo. That's you, #####.
   272. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:15 AM (#5587135)

Bannon rails against Romney in Alabama speech: ‘You hid behind your religion’ to avoid Vietnam
“Judge Roy Moore has more honor and integrity in that pinkie finger than your entire family has in its whole DNA,” Bannon said in his 30-minute speech at Oak Hollow Farm. “You hid behind your religion. You went to France to be a missionary while guys were dying in rice paddies in Vietnam.


If only Romney had had the patriotic courage to develop a bone spur.
   273. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:16 AM (#5587136)
But please tell us how there's a straight line from cracks about #bindersofwomen to this garbage. You guys voted Donald Trump to lead your party. You're going to vote an impeached judge with credible allegations of molestation into the Senate and Steve Bannon speaks for your base. No whataboutism. No Democrats did this or that. This is modern Republicanism.
Wow, Bivens' prescriptions sure do get around. "You're going to vote an impeached judge" is about those in Alabama casting votes, fella, not me.

It's worth noting too that Bannon's the only one of note who stuck out his neck for Moore. Not wanting to look ineffective after losing with Strange, Trump extended his endorsement only after it became evident that Jones' chances were fading. Similarly, McConnell's behavior, while cowardly, is merely a reflection of that reality. Kudos to folks in the Senate who have much to lose like Gardner and Sasse for continuing to openly express their disgust.


This doesn't seem to address the point.

It's the Bannon/Trump party now. At some point, wouldn't it be a good idea to engage in a little self-reflection as to why that is and how you got there?

   274. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:17 AM (#5587139)
It is about Iran


Son, you think the outcome of Monday Night Football is about Iran. How and when you can get the US to wage war against Iran is literally the only thing you ever think about.
   275. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:18 AM (#5587140)
It's worth noting too that Bannon's the only one of note who stuck out his neck for Moore.

Well, other than that insignificant organization known as the Republican National Committee, formerly known as the Republican National Committee.
   276. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:18 AM (#5587141)
It's the Bannon/Trump party now. At some point, wouldn't it be a good idea to engage in a little self-reflection as to why that is and how you got there?


That would not help the donation buckets, bruh.
   277. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:18 AM (#5587142)
It is about Iran, Obtuse Mouse. It's true that, often when confronted with facts, you seem to fall back on the "I don't care" line, but anyone (whether it's you, Brian, or whomever) who backed the nuke deal and shrugged over Iran's regional expansion has no standing to clutch their chest in horror over an embassy move.


Good lord dude, you are in quite a mood. No it is not about Iran, it is about Israel. Not everything Israel is about Iran and only Iran, despite your weird obsessions. Secondly, I once more ask that you actually read my positions on the subject and not just make it up as you go along (as you currently are). Finally, even if your "understanding" of what I wrote is correct, yes I do get to have any opinion I like, regarding Israel, Iran, or whatever. You don't get to police what I do or do not "clutch my chest in horror over". Promise.

So yeah, really, be less of a tool. Go get coffee or something.
   278. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:20 AM (#5587145)
And David's "less government" beliefs magically disappear.
See, this is a perfect example of the phenomenon I was discussing yesterday, in which liberals try to employ weird anti-libertarian gotchas about the size of government about issues that have absolutely nothing to do with the size of government.

Whether the U.S. says that Tel Aviv or Jerusalem is the Israeli capital is completely orthogonal to the size of the U.S. government.
   279. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5587146)
It's the Bannon/Trump party now. At some point, wouldn't it be a good idea to engage in a little self-reflection as to why that is and how you got there?
Yes, from the safety of your perch north of the border, that appears to be the outcome you desire. The reality is that If Bannon had triumphed already, he wouldn't be lashing out against Romney with these over-the-top accusations.

But go ahead, keep being disingenuous about "self-reflection."
   280. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:23 AM (#5587147)
Everyone here is talking about Iran. Lots of talk about how Iran is a moron with a bad combover and a fat ass. Presumably this is about Iran Barkley, I didn’t even know he was still alive.
   281. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:24 AM (#5587148)
Aside: Hey Andy, SBB has gone entertainingly insane again, claiming that financial records are not really financial records, because of reasons and stuff. I am not totally sure it is worth taking him off ignore, but it is really funny.

Thanks for the tip, but I think I'll let you continue to be my Sugar Bear Whisperer for the time being. JE and Ray are amusement enough, and at least with them you get the occasional flash of humor, even if in Ray's case it's mostly unintentional.
   282. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:24 AM (#5587149)
It's at worst pointless and inflammatory. At best, it advances the peace process by letting the Palestinians know that the US isn't going to play Let's Pretend anymore, and that if they want peace they need to face reality.

And David's "less government" beliefs magically disappear.


You'd need some magic in your statement to make it coherent, yes.
   283. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5587150)
Good lord dude, you are in quite a mood. No it is not about Iran, it is about Israel. Not everything Israel is about Iran and only Iran, despite your weird obsessions. Secondly, I once more ask that you actually read my positions on the subject and not just make it up as you go along (as you currently are). Finally, even if your "understanding" of what I wrote is correct, yes I do get to have any opinion I like, regarding Israel, Iran, or whatever. You don't get to police what I do or do not "clutch my chest in horror over". Promise.

So yeah, really, be less of a tool. Go get coffee or something.
David Axelrod, this morning:
Apparently defying his national security advisers and the counsel of all our allies but one, @POTUS recklessly and needlessly lights a fuse that could further inflame the Middle East.
"Further inflame the Middle East?" Oh.

Isn't Iran in the Middle East, Mouse? Aren't there Iranian soldiers and bases in Lebanon? In Iraq? Haven't Iranian missiles been launched against Saudi from Yemen?

And yeah, the coffee I'm drinking right now tastes fine. But thanks so much for the advice.
   284. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5587153)
The folks who put the Iranian regime on a glide path toward nuclear weapons and regional dominance
You keep saying crap like this, while completely ignoring the fact that Iran was said to be months away from having enough fuel for a bomb...2 1/2 years ago.

IOW, your constant bleating about how disastrous the deal is has actually delayed things for 2 years. And counting.
   285. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5587154)
You keep saying crap like this


And he will continue to say crap like that, or any other crap that spins the narrative, until bombers are flying over Tehran.
   286. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5587155)
You support the party that supports the pedo. That's you, #####.


So'd the Democrats -- Gerry Studds. Seventeen, not 14, which is enough of a difference for me not to get too worked up about it, but supporting Congressmen who diddle U-18 congressional pages isn't the greatest of looks.

It's sometimes wise to know something about recent history; it helps vitiate (or even eliminate!) the beclowning process.

Roy Moore shouldn't be anywhere near the Senate, and my working assumption is that he'll be seated and then expelled if he's voted in.
   287. Lassus Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5587156)
Apparently defying his national security advisers and the counsel of all our allies but one, @POTUS recklessly and needlessly lights a fuse that could further inflame the Middle East.
"Further inflame the Middle East?" Oh.


Now I'm totally lost. So Trump IS ####### up Israel or is not?
   288. Lassus Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5587158)
So'd the Democrats -- Gerry Studds.

Censured in '83, left office in '97, died in '06. Topical.
   289. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5587159)
It's the Bannon/Trump party now. At some point, wouldn't it be a good idea to engage in a little self-reflection as to why that is and how you got there?


Asked and answered. Because of identity (*) liberalism and globalism.

Duh.

(*) "Modern" is still better, but whatever.
   290. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5587160)
Censured in '83, left office in '97, died in '06. Topical.


It's "topical" in every way.
   291. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:38 AM (#5587162)
Censured in '83, left office in '97, died in '06. Topical.


Was that SBB? Does this mean he's actually Sheve, or is he just lurking on Jason's FB page picking up idiotic talking points from the crowd of morons?
   292. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5587163)
Does this mean he's actually Sheve, or is he just lurking on Jason's FB page picking up idiotic talking points from the crowd of morons?


I create my own "talking points." No need to just regurgitate the latest on Vox, like many here do.
   293. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5587164)
Yes, from the safety of your perch north of the border, that appears to be the outcome you desire. The reality is that If Bannon had triumphed already, he wouldn't be lashing out against Romney with these over-the-top accusations.

But go ahead, keep being disingenuous about "self-reflection."


Good luck with your not completely pregnant plan.
   294. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5587165)
You keep saying crap like this, while completely ignoring the fact that Iran was said to be months away from having enough fuel for a bomb...2 1/2 years ago.
So instead of at minimum, strengthening our sanctions against Tehran or, if necessary, taking out their facilities through force, you capitulated, got rid of all of the sanctions, and said that, after a decade, they're free to do what they like? And meanwhile, the mullahs are now stronger than ever in the region.

Brilliant, dude. Just brilliant.
   295. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5587166)
So instead of at minimum, strengthening our sanctions against Tehran or, if necessary, taking out their facilities through force


*ding ding ding*

The only solution is for other men to blow up Tehran and die in the desert. It's Jason's way.
   296. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:44 AM (#5587168)
So instead of at minimum, strengthening our sanctions against Tehran or, if necessary, taking out their facilities through force, you capitulated, got rid of all of the sanctions, and said that, after a decade, they're free to do what they like?
You forgot about giving them $100B+ so that they could afford to do whatever they wanted.
   297. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:44 AM (#5587169)
In fairness, next to being upset about the cancellation of Tales of the Gold Monkey - nothing bothered 9 yo me more than Stubbs.
   298. -- Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5587170)
In fairness, next to being upset about the cancellation of Tales of the Golden Monkey - nothing bothered 9 yo me more than Stubbs.


That's good, but it didn't bother the adults in the D party or the voters who kept voting him in.
   299. Stormy JE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:47 AM (#5587171)
You forgot about giving them $100B+ so that they could afford to do whatever they wanted.
Indeed. And what's most rich of all is remembering how Rhodes, Kahl, Psaki, Power, Axelrod, and the members of the echo chamber over these past few years were silent about Iranian aggression in the region but have suddenly percolated both when America's ALLIES (e.g., Israel, Saudi, UAE) defend themselves or we strengthen their hand.
   300. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 06, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5587172)
You forgot about giving them $100B+


Wait. Can the government "give" someone their own money, David?
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