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Monday, July 10, 2017

OTP 10 July 2017: Jim Bunning’s Brethren: Baseball Men Who Went Into Politics

But if Bartolo is anything like Jim Bunning, he could go into politics, following the example of the tall right-hander who passed away on May 26 after 224 wins, 3,760.1 innings, and 23 years in the House and Senate as a representative and later senator from Kentucky.

John Tures, a political scientist at LaGrange College, compiled a list of players who went into politics. As with baseball itself, many have tried, but few succeeded, and certainly none so spectacularly as Bunning, whom the Veterans Committee inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1996. (That happened while he was a member of the House of Representatives. Two years later, he ran for the Senate and won. His newfound Hall of Fame status surely cannot have hurt his chances.)

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 07:50 AM | 1411 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, jim bunning, politics

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   1. Traderdave Posted: July 10, 2017 at 10:53 AM (#5490384)
Collusion 2: Electric Boogaloo


   2. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:01 AM (#5490391)
Trial judge denies the state of Hawaii's motion challenging Trump's implementation of the Supreme Court's ruling.

Curiously, the judge held that it wasn't up to him to interpret the Supreme Court's ruling.

On appeal from the state the Ninth Circuit however has in effect directed the judge to interpret and enforce the ruling.
   3. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:03 AM (#5490394)
If Hillary had taken a break and had Chelsea "sit in" Ray would be shitting himself in apoplectic rage while quoting every cartoonist on the planet he could find to prove Hillary was dying.


Wrong again. I am outraged that Trump didn't sit in every second of this silly G20 summit.
   4. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5490396)
Hang on, I'll have a more considered opinion on the matter once I read Mallard Filmore this morning.
   5. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:06 AM (#5490397)
For those that care (sorry Greg K) Trump seems to have stabilized at about 40% approve and 55% disapprove. See: President Trump Job Approval

Those are not great numbers, but not fatal either. Just sort of ... bad. If his presidency was a TV show it would be moved to a who cares slot to make way for better programming, but it wouldn't be canceled just yet.

The Generic Ballot has also stabilized at about a 6.5% spread - currently 45.7% Democrat and 39.2% Republican.

Also a bad but not terrible result for the GOP.
   6. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:06 AM (#5490398)
of this silly G20 summit.


What is it you think the President actually does, Ray? I think the underlying issue here may be that you really don't know what the job entails. That would explain thinking Trump is "just as good as Hillary."
   7. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5490400)
For those that care (sorry Greg K) Trump seems to have stabilized at about 40% approve and 55% disapprove.


He could ass-rape a 12 year old and 5th Ave and his core supporters would cheer him on.
   8. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:08 AM (#5490402)
So many homophobic jokes, so little time to make them all.
   9. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5490405)
Hang on, I'll have a more considered opinion on the matter once I read Mallard Filmore this morning.


I had to check. Its a joke about the new diverse Ken dolls.
   10. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:12 AM (#5490408)
So many homophobic jokes


If this is about me, my post is neither homophobic nor a joke. Perhaps the underlying underlying problem is that you don't know how English works.
   11. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:12 AM (#5490410)
Timely!
   12. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5490411)
So you'd rather have Trump sitting in than Ivanka?
Better Ivanka than Roger Stone.

#silverlinings
   13. Greg K Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:15 AM (#5490412)

Wrong again. I am outraged that Trump didn't sit in every second of this silly G20 summit.

Is the G20 itself particularly silly? Or do you mean global governance in general is?
   14. Greg K Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:15 AM (#5490413)
For those that care (sorry Greg K) Trump seems to have stabilized at about 40% approve and 55% disapprove.

As I'm Canadian, an apology is all I ask for.
   15. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5490414)
Hang on, I'll have a more considered opinion on the matter once I read Mallard Filmore this morning.

Or the slightly more Epsteinish Prickly City, the poster child for affirmative action for right wing cartoonists.
   16. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:20 AM (#5490417)
So you'd rather have Trump sitting in than Ivanka?


What is Ivanka in this administration? Sort of a cross between Valerie Jarrett (advisor) and Michelle Obama (family)? If the seat-filler was always a VP or cabinet member before, then I could see this story making the news cycle. It's going to blow over quickly though, if it hasn't already.
   17. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5490420)
It's going to blow over though, if it hasn't already.


Oh sure, it is trivial, like a million things conservatives went crazy over during the Obama years. I look forward to having a Democrat in the White House again and the hordes of pearl clutching conservatives to return to the roost to cluck over every single detail - it was less annoying than the fawning over a clear incompetent they are up to now.
   18. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5490428)
Oh sure, it is trivial, like a million things conservatives went crazy over during the Obama years.


I actually agree. Having a daughter-advisor seated next to heads of state in meetings is incredibly bad optics and deserves its turn in the news cycle. It is much worse than forgetting to wear your flag pin or using a selfie stick in the oval office or whatever conservatives used to get upset about. I just saying that I don't think its going to stick. Ivanka has been seated next to world leaders before (Trudeau, Merkel, Abe). The administration just seems to ignore this critique and that seems to be working.
   19. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:52 AM (#5490435)
I actually agree. Having a daughter-advisor seated next to heads of state in meetings is incredibly bad optics and deserves its turn in the news cycle.


It isn't as if she's isn't an accomplished individual in her own right. How many people have their own handbag and jewelry lines? Not you!

I just saying that I don't think its going to stick.


IOKIYAR. Remember, vote for Trump because Hillary was a warmonger on Iraq.
   20. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5490436)
I am sure some folks here are STILL convinced they are an existential threat to the West though. There is no cure for dumb.
I see that Mouse is going to double/triple/quadruple/infinituple down on this stupid strawman. Nobody claimed that, and it's an incredibly stupid standard by which to evaluate threats.)
   21. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5490438)
John Tures, a political scientist at LaGrange College, compiled a list of players who went into politics.


Tures's list is missing Tony Alvarez and Dennis Martinez.
   22. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 11:58 AM (#5490440)
Nobody claimed that


At the very least SBB claimed it. I believe others chimed in as well, but I have zero intention of trawling through that nonsense again. If you are motivated to do so, feel free.

and it's an incredibly stupid standard by which to evaluate threats.


Well no. It is a critically important attribute of threats that is vital to correctly identify. Hitler and Fascism were existential threats to Democracy and Jews and others as well in Europe. Nuclear obliteration was an existential threat to most of the world. Netflix was an existential threat to Blockbuster and most other video rental businesses.

Of course if what you were trying to say is that existential threat or not is terrible if that is the ONLY attribute you assign to a threat, if it is the ONLY way you evaluate all threats then sure we agree, but so what? I wasn't doing that and I don't think anyone (even SBB) was. But sure, on that one point we agree. Well done.
   23. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 12:11 PM (#5490446)
Hitler was not an existential threat to the U.S. Only Russia, China, and the aliens from Independence Day are.
   24. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 12:23 PM (#5490451)
   25. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 12:31 PM (#5490454)
Trump tweeting on the real G20 scandal! Prove him wrong libtards - you can't!
   26. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: July 10, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5490456)
Or the slightly more Epsteinish Prickly City


That is very Jason-esque. Who, also, would be volunteering his time drafting articles of impeachment if half of this year's news cycle was about a Hillary administration.
   27. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5490463)
Prove him wrong libtards - you can't!


So, to track the logic of Trump's analogy backwards, Ivanka was keeping the seat warm while "her mother father gave our country away"?

But, as I learned from reading the thoughts of Trump supporters in this piece, "He's 70, come on. People will say and do anything as they get older. They don't have a filter."
   28. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 12:49 PM (#5490465)
Hitler was not an existential threat to the U.S.


Gee, I wonder by I used the words "in Europe"? It is a puzzle. Hmmm. Let me think about it and get back to you.
   29. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:04 PM (#5490477)
But, as I learned from reading the thoughts of Trump supporters in this piece, "He's 70, come on. People will say and do anything as they get older. They don't have a filter."


The beauty is this one:

“I think Trump will be a lot better than our previous president. I think he's going to get things done,” said Rich Marshbanks, the owner of a local barbershop. “I think he's basically a good man. His heart's in the right place.”


Basically a good man? The evidence for this is what.... exactly.

The mullet is basically a good haircut. It's style is in the right place.
   30. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:11 PM (#5490481)
Gee, I wonder by I used the words "in Europe"? It is a puzzle. Hmmm. Let me think about it and get back to you.
I wonder why you used the words at all, since we're talking about the U.S., and by your logic Hitler was nothing to worry about.

(In any case, you used "in Europe" with respect to Jews and others, not with respect to Democracy.)
   31. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:18 PM (#5490482)
Basically a good man? The evidence for this is what.... exactly.


Pigmentation.
   32. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:28 PM (#5490486)
Ray, I'm still waiting for a response to this:
514. TDF, situational idiot Posted: July 07, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5489456)

Trump doesn't know anything about health care, but Steve Bannon does


Honest question: What does Steve Bannon know about health care that the average person doesn't?
   33. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5490489)
Hitler was not an existential threat to the U.S. Only Russia, China, and the aliens from Independence Day are.
Half of the crowd here a month or so ago would have said Scalise was an existential threat to America.
   34. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5490490)
I wonder why you used the words at all, since we're talking about the U.S., and by your logic Hitler was nothing to worry about.


I gave three different examples. Two of which had locations (world and Europe) and one did not (Netflix, Blockbuster). I didn't mention the US, and the original post I made (which you quoted) talked about "the West". Here it is: "I am sure some folks here are STILL convinced they are an existential threat to the West though. There is no cure for dumb."

So why on Earth (yet another location) do you think we were just talking about the US? Seriously dude try harder.

(In any case, you used "in Europe" with respect to Jews and others, not with respect to Democracy.)


Reading, the lost art. There was one location and it applied to Democracy, Jews and others. Because you know that is where Hitler was an actual existential threat to those things. I am sorry my use of English confused you. next time I will write: Democracy in Europe, Jews in Europe, and other things in Europe; so it is perfectly clear.
   35. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5490491)
I didn't mention the US
Except in 705 of the last thread, when you did.

next time I will write: Democracy in Europe, Jews in Europe, and other things in Europe; so it is perfectly clear.
That would be a lot clearer.

Still puzzled as to why you keep bringing up these strawmen about "existential threats," "debunking" these strawmen, and then thinking you've demonstrated something, though.
   36. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:42 PM (#5490494)
Ray, I'm still waiting for a response to this:

514. TDF, situational idiot Posted: July 07, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5489456)

Trump doesn't know anything about health care, but Steve Bannon does

Honest question: What does Steve Bannon know about health care that the average person doesn't?


Oh. That stemmed from this post of mine:

510. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 07, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5489442)

Trump doesn't know anything about health care, but Steve Bannon does, and as Bannon observed:

“It is not sufficient for us simply to add more people to Medicare or Medicaid to increase the rolls, to increase coverage in the absence of cost controls and reform. Another way of putting it is we can’t simply put more people into a broken system that doesn’t work."

But of course, since Bannon said it people here will dismiss it.


And my post was a trick, an exercise to show that people here are basically on autopilot, reacting one way to a quote when they think a Republican said it and another way to the same quote when they think a Democrat said it. People predictably fell into the trap.

Bannon didn't say the above quote; President Obama did.
   37. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:44 PM (#5490495)
Wait, you think I introduced the idea into the original discussion? I am bringing up the fact that OTHERS seemed to think the danger was (third time alert!) existential in nature. I think the idea is insane and farcical (and it sounds like you agree).

Don't end up on the wrong side just because you want to fight with me over foreign affairs. There are still plenty of areas where we disagree.
OK, you've lost me.

Onward and upward!
   38. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:45 PM (#5490497)
Except in 705 of the last thread, when you did.


Well yes David, I have in the past mentioned the US. I quoted the very post that you quoted in this very thread talking about the West. But yes in the past I have before mentioned the nation called (to avoid confusion) the United States of America.

Still puzzled as to why you keep bringing up these strawmen about "existential threats," "debunking" these strawmen, and then thinking you've demonstrated something, though.


Stupid deserves to be mocked. Those who thought that ISIS and other similar groups are an existential threat to the US deserve to be mocked. Since there is recent news about ISIS it was a good time to mock those morons for their dumb belief.

Were there any confusing words or phrases above? I will be glad to clear them up for you.

Note: You are misusing the term "strawman". I am mocking people who actually talked about the existential threat. Real people, in as much as SBB and however many others agreed with him, are real.
   39. Lassus Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:45 PM (#5490498)
And my post was a trick lie

Clever.
   40. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:50 PM (#5490500)
And my post was a trick


A trick that seemingly failed. :(

President Obama knows a great deal about healthcare, certainly relative to Trump. Everyone knows Obama is well read and smart, so no one would ask why does Obama know more about healthcare than the average person, no one sane anyway. The poster was asking why Bannon "knows anything about healthcare" which is a reasonable question to ask.

I guess the answer is "he doesn't". Unless you are done misquoting people in a juvenile attempt to "trick" people and care to try to argue he does.
   41. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2017 at 01:53 PM (#5490502)

President Obama knows a great deal about healthcare, certainly relative to Trump. Everyone knows Obama is well read and smart, so no one would ask why does Obama know more about healthcare than the average person, no one sane anyway. The poster was asking why Bannon "knows anything about healthcare" which is a reasonable question to ask.

I guess the answer is "he doesn't". Unless you are done misquoting people in a juvenile attempt to "trick" people and care to try to argue he does.


OTOH I think we can all condemn Hillary Clinton for calling on Russia to release Donald Trump's tax returns!
   42. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 02:00 PM (#5490504)
Stupid deserves to be mocked. Those who thought that ISIS and other similar groups are an existential threat to the US
There, you did it again!
deserve to be mocked. Since there is recent news about ISIS it was a good time to mock those morons for their dumb belief.

Were there any confusing words or phrases above? I will be glad to clear them up for you.

Note: You are misusing the term "strawman". I am mocking people who actually talked about the existential threat. Real people, in as much as SBB and however many others agreed with him, are real.
SBB is a troll, not a real person. He doesn't believe anything he says, so even if he did say it (and I'm not sure one way or the other), it wouldn't represent a real person thinking that. And he's not here; he hasn't posted in like a week. So you're rebutting a troll who isn't even here. Good show!

It's a strawman because nobody actually holds the position that ISIS is or was an existential threat to anyone. (Well, not to the U.S. or the West. They may represent an existential threat to minority religious groups within the territory under their control.) It's stupid because "X isn't an existential threat" is not a rebuttal to an argument that we should be concerned about X. And I'm mocking you for that unserious argument, which is your version of Ray's I-don't-care.
   43. madvillain Posted: July 10, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5490506)
ISIS is the JV, at least compared to some of the more hardened Islamist fighters in Afghanistan and Syria. And they proved it being routed by the Iraqi army and SDF.
   44. PepTech Posted: July 10, 2017 at 02:17 PM (#5490513)
And my post was a trick, an exercise to show that people here are basically on autopilot, reacting one way to a quote when they think a Republican said it and another way to the same quote when they think a Democrat said it. People predictably fell into the trap.
Here is every response to the quote:

Lassus: What is he referring to by cost controls and reform?
madvillain: Bannon > Price.
TDF: Honest question: What does Steve Bannon know about health care that the average person doesn't?
Gef (in response to TDF): By the looks of it, he gets a new liver every month or so.

That's it. How can you justify your statement that "people" fell into some "trap"? The only reaction to your quote was request for clarification. No one attacked it. If anything, your exercise proved that "people" other than yourself have an open mind - even when it comes to Bannon. Whereas even after your "trap" failed you appear to believe you have achieved some sort of victory.

So to sum up, you lied in 510 (that the quote was from Bannon), and you lied again today (when you said people "fell into the trap"). And then declare that your two lies, together, constitute "winning". Not that you care about anything.
   45. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5490516)
International Amateur Hour Makes America Great Again

Donald Trump's White House has become the target of mockery yet again after making an awkward diplomatic boo-boo on an official release at the G20 over the weekend. In a White House transcript of remarks made by Trump prior to his meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Hamburg, Xi is referred to as "President Xi of the Republic of China" by the Office of Press Secretary Sean Spicer.

Of course, Xi is, in fact, the President of the People's Republic of China, while the Republic of China is what the government of Taiwan calls itself


Meanwhile, Singapore's Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong was also misidentified as the "President of Indonesia" on Trump's official Instagram account,
   46. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: July 10, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5490522)
And my post was a trick, an exercise to show that people here are basically on autopilot, reacting one way to a quote when they think a Republican said it and another way to the same quote when they think a Democrat said it. People predictably fell into the trap.

Bannon didn't say the above quote; President Obama did.
So to sum up, you lied in 510 (that the quote was from Bannon), and you lied again today (when you said people "fell into the trap"). And then declare that your two lies, together, constitute "winning". Not that you care about anything.
And the ACA did institute reforms to begin fixing Medicaid and Medicare.
   47. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 10, 2017 at 02:52 PM (#5490527)
Mouse, #5:
For those that care (sorry Greg K) Trump seems to have stabilized at about 40% approve and 55% disapprove. See: President Trump Job Approval

Those are not great numbers, but not fatal either. Just sort of ... bad.



For some context, the worst Obama ever got in the Gallup poll was -14%, in two of 419 surveys over eight years. He never hit 55% disapproval in any Gallup poll. Trump has been at 55% disapproval or worse in 68 of 169 Gallup daily polls. George W. Bush-- in his first term, anyway-- peaked at 51% disapproval for a single weekly Gallup average in May 2004. Bill Clinton never hit 55% disapproval in any Gallup weekly poll for eight years. Roughly, Trump's honeymoon period looks like George W. Bush's 2005. (And then came 2006.)

---------

Rickey to Ray, #10:
So many homophobic jokes

If this is about me, my post is neither homophobic nor a joke.



There's a "mind-boggling" estimate out there that about a third of the public doesn't possess the capacity to recognize humor.

--------

Greg K to Ray, #13:
Wrong again. I am outraged that Trump didn't sit in every second of this silly G20 summit.

Is the G20 itself particularly silly? Or do you mean global governance in general is?



Ray uses "silly" as a synonym for "the."

--------

David N to Mouse, #42:
It's a strawman because nobody actually holds the position that ISIS is or was an existential threat to anyone.


John McCain: "What does it mean to the American people? It means that we are now facing an existential threat to the security of the United States of America."

Lindsey Graham: "[There is no] strategy to deal with an existential threat to the homeland. ...If he does not go on the offensive against ISIS, ISIL, whatever you want to call these guys, they are coming here. This is not just about Baghdad. This is not just about Syria. It is about our homeland... Do we really want to let America be attacked? ...Mr. President, if you don't adjust your strategy, these people are coming here."

John Lloyd, Reuters: "This, I think, adds up to war: and an existential threat. A threat to our existence, our way of life."

Investor's Business Daily, reporting on an April 2016 IBD/TIPP poll: "Some 77% of those polled believes “ISIS is a serious threat to the existence or survival of the U.S.” Fully 52% said they “agree strongly” that ISIS is an existential threat."
   48. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 02:53 PM (#5490528)
Basically a good man? The evidence for this is what.... exactly.


Pigmentation.


Orange is the new white?
   49. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:09 PM (#5490535)
and you lied again today (when you said people "fell into the trap").


Maybe he's using the alternate translation of that phrase, which, if I understand how the kids are using the living language online, means "Solicited the services of a transexual prostitute", which of course absolves me of any involvement. The rest of you?

ಠ_ಠ
   50. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:11 PM (#5490537)
(#5490506)
ISIS is the JV, at least compared to some of the more hardened Islamist fighters in Afghanistan and Syria.

Whom the US finances, arms, and trains to help bring down Assad. Same groups we've been funding long before the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan to help being down that government. Some of the same people who did bring down the WTC.
   51. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:13 PM (#5490538)
Is the G20 itself particularly silly? Or do you mean global governance in general is?

The emperors wear no clothes.
   52. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:19 PM (#5490543)
It's a strawman because nobody actually holds the position that ISIS is or was an existential threat to anyone.


This is not true. There are millions of Americans who believe that ISIS is the great Satan in their holy war of Christendom. The fact that you don't hang out them doesn't blink them out of existence. Now, of course ISIS (nor al-Q before them, nor Saddam Hussein before them, etc, et al) is not an existential threat to the west or the USA. But that doesn't mean "nobody actually holds the position."
   53. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:20 PM (#5490545)
How can you justify your statement that "people" fell into some "trap"?


*mumble mumble mumble* HYPNOTIST!
   54. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:22 PM (#5490547)
Whom the US finances, arms, and trains to help bring down Assad.


Join the Glorious Revolution, Comrade!
   55. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:22 PM (#5490548)
a campaign official who gets lured into a meeting by a promise of revealing dirt on the opposition


Thr meeting between Veselnitskaya and Junior was allegedly set up by an operative with ties to Fusion GPS, the firm DNC hired to do oppo research on Trump. Also hired by Michael Steele who used Russians to concoct his infamous dossier.

Spy vs. Spy stuff, all connected deserving of mockery, not just Diaper Don.
   56. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5490549)
Thr meeting between Veselnitskaya and Junior was allegedly set up by an operative with ties to Fusion GPS, the firm DNC hired to do oppo research on Trump. Also hired by Michael Steele who used Russians to concoct his infamous dossier.


The former RNC chair is a quadruple double agent?
   57. The Good Face Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5490553)
This is not true. There are millions of Americans who believe that ISIS is the great Satan in their holy war of Christendom. The fact that you don't hang out them doesn't blink them out of existence.


BM keeps insisting that those people post HERE. Can't seem to name any names other than SBB though, who you all agree is the trolliest troll that ever trolled.
   58. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5490554)

The former RNC chair is a quadruple double agent?

Pretty much.
   59. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5490557)
The former RNC chair is a quadruple double agent?

Pretty much.


Everybody not wearing tinfoil looks alike to you, I know...
   60. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:36 PM (#5490561)
Christopher Bouzy on Twitter:
Bush: Did you destroy our Towers?

Bin Laden: No.

Bush: Ok I believe you. We shall build an anti-terrorism unit together to stop attacks.
   61. Lassus Posted: July 10, 2017 at 03:37 PM (#5490562)
Can't seem to name any names other than SBB though, who you all agree is the trolliest troll that ever trolled.

Actually, many folks, myself among them, are comfortable that he believes all the batshit things he writes.

   62. zenbitz Posted: July 10, 2017 at 04:01 PM (#5490576)
That was a clever ruse, Ray. But I think it missed on 2 levels:
1) The quote is sort of reasonable. I just read it as "you can't put people on Medicare/Medicaid without paying for it"... which is true.
2) The part that eyebrow raising is "broken system" -- but since you attributed it to Steve Bannon - it seemed like the kind of dumb thing conservatives say without basis all the time, and seemed to be a minor part of the quote so I ignored it.



   63. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 04:15 PM (#5490586)
Investor's Business Daily, reporting on an April 2016 IBD/TIPP poll: "Some 77% of those polled believes “ISIS is a serious threat to the existence or survival of the U.S.” Fully 52% said they “agree strongly” that ISIS is an existential threat."
There are people who (say they) believe in a flat earth. None of them, with the possible exception of SBB, post here. TPFKA Bitter Mouse is talking to people here, not to random people who responded to some poll somewhere.
   64. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 04:20 PM (#5490589)
Dershowitz:

OPINION: Comey didn't commit a crime -- neither did Donald Jr.

...

So now the shoe is truly on the other foot. Trump's political enemies have accused the president of engaging in illegal behavior, including obstruction of justice, witness tampering, extortion, even treason. And now it is President Trump who is accusing Comey of illegal behavior.

But turnabout is not fair play. Both sides are wrong in trying to expand existing criminal laws to cover the questionable conduct of their political opponents. ...

Not to be outdone by President Trump, a former ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush, has accused Donald Trump, Jr., of treason - yes, treason - for meeting with a Russian lawyer during the campaign in an alleged effort to obtain negative information about Hillary Clinton. This is what Richard Painter, Bush's ethics lawyer, said on MSNBC: "We do not get our opposition research from spies, we do not collaborate with Russian spies, unless we want to be accused of treason." He said that if the story is true, those who met with the Russian lawyer should be "in custody by now."

But even if these allegations are true, this does not even come close to the legal definition of treason.
The crime of treason is explicitly defined in the Constitution as limited to the following conduct: "Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." (Emphasis added.) It does not include receiving aid from a Russian lawyer, whether that lawyer was acting in a private capacity or as a surrogate for her government.

...

Republicans tried to do that with Clinton by stretching the word "espionage" to cover her improper but innocent use of home computer system to send and receive emails. Comey got it right when he declined to prosecute her, saying that nobody had previously been prosecuted for comparable conduct. He then went on the criticize her - a decision that many regarded as beyond the scope of his authority.

But his critical words directed against Clinton may now come back to haunt him because if it is true that he leaked classified material, he too, is subject to the kind of criticism he leveled at Clinton. But he, too, should not be prosecuted for leaking the material, based on the evidence that we now know.

If the allegations against Comey and President Trump's son are true, they should both be criticized for what they did. It is unseemly, at the very least, for a former director of the FBI to launder potentially classified material through a law professor in order to get it to the media. It was also cowardly for Comey to use this indirect method to seek the appointment of a special counsel. He can be rightly criticized for failing openly to seek the appointment of a special counsel. But his conduct does not seem to rise to the level of illegality, notwithstanding President Trump's hasty tweet.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/341299-opinion-james-comey-didnt-commit-a-crime-and-neither?amp



   65. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 04:20 PM (#5490590)
Actually, many folks, myself among them, are comfortable that he believes all the batshit things he writes.
The problem with that is that one day he says "A" and the next day -- or the next post! -- he says "Not A."
   66. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 04:22 PM (#5490592)
Maybe he really is a lawyer!
   67. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 04:23 PM (#5490594)
Ray uses "silly" as a synonym for "the."
I thought that was how he used "unhinged."
   68. zenbitz Posted: July 10, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5490602)
But even if these allegations are true, this does not even come close to the legal definition of treason.


The Trump Administration's byline: "Does Not Meet the Legal Definition of Treason"
   69. PepTech Posted: July 10, 2017 at 05:02 PM (#5490610)
Commonly employed Trump Apologist methodology - mock the most extreme interpretation out there, and ignore everything else. Of course it's not treason.

Refuting "treason" is not the same as "nothing to see here". At the very least, it's another walkback on "no one in the campaign ever met with Russians" statement, which by now has been trod on more than any revolutionary rattlesnake. But I guess when one is so busy not beating one's wife, logic escapes one.
   70. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 10, 2017 at 05:04 PM (#5490613)
Mr. N, #67:
Ray uses "silly" as a synonym for "the."

I thought that was how he used "unhinged."



"Unhinged" is his synonym for "at." "TDS" is "Submit Your Comment." Get it straight.
   71. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 05:06 PM (#5490618)
What was the middle thing?
   72. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: July 10, 2017 at 05:16 PM (#5490624)
Ya know, I've been stewing all day on what Alan Dershowitz had to say about the weekend's news. Hopefully, Scott Adams will chime in soon too!
   73. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: July 10, 2017 at 05:34 PM (#5490631)
there are people who (say they) believe in a flat earth.


That's.... well, that's something...
   74. zenbitz Posted: July 10, 2017 at 05:51 PM (#5490633)
Flat Earth is obviously false. Cats would have knocked everything off the edge by now.
   75. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:01 PM (#5490635)
   76. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:12 PM (#5490636)
Flat Earth is obviously false. Cats would have knocked everything off the edge by now.
You fail to account for the ice walls.
   77. PepTech Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:16 PM (#5490637)
There's an article out headlined 20 times Team Trump denied any connections to Russia. Trump Apologists will say that the headline is misleading, because several of the denials contained the caveat that there were no meetings intended to influence the election (such as Conway on December 18 and Pence on January 15). However, there's clearly some untruths somewhere in here:
July 9, 2016
Donald Trump Jr. met with a Russian national (Note: he admitted today this was in part to obtain "helpful information")

July 24, 2016
Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, appearing on ABC’s This Week, is asked by host George Stephanopoulos whether there are any connections between the Trump campaign and Russia or its president. “No, there are not,” he said. “That’s absurd. And you know, there’s no basis to it.” (Note: Reports have stated that Manafort, himself, attended the meeting)

November 11, 2016
In a statement responding to Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov’s interview with Interfax that “there were contacts” with Trump’s team, campaign spokesperson Hope Hicks said, “It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”
So Manafort with an outright lie. Hicks could have just not known, but Manafort obviously knew what he was saying was untrue.

Trump Jr taking the meeting is *not* the primary issue. The primary issue is all the lying. Trump Apologists keep saying these meetings were no big deal, and they're probably right - at least about the ones that have come to light. How many more are there, and how many do there have to be before the lying part bothers anyone in the Trump Apologist camp? The answer is probably "doesn't matter, we got Gorsuch on SCOTUS, suckas!"


   78. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:17 PM (#5490638)
Reince Priebus is a weasel.
Or, he was watching a game on TV (he's looking up in that picture) while wining and dining on Jerry Jones' tab.
   79. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:18 PM (#5490639)
Ya know, I've been stewing all day on what Alan Dershowitz had to say about the weekend's news. Hopefully, Scott Adams will chime in soon too!


It's amazing how hostile people here are to a point of view that differs from their own.

It's one thing to make fun of Adams. His brand of observation is not really anchored to anything scientific. I mean, granted he picked Trump as the election winner 15 months in advance when almost all of the rest of you couldn't pick the election winner an hour in advance, but fair enough; Adams makes you look and feel stupid so I get why you need to destroy him.

But Dershowitz is another matter entirely. He clearly knows about criminal law and has read the Constitution a million times more than your hero Khizir Khan has -- as well as the court decisions in the relevant areas. And Dershowitz can understand the subject matter. I get that Dershowitz disagrees with you so he has to be destroyed also, but you look really dumb trying to make fun of him.
   80. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:24 PM (#5490642)
The primary issue is all the lying.

"I did not have sexual relations with that Russian woman."
   81. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:29 PM (#5490644)
Saying that politicians and politicsl operatives lie to the media is like saying the sun rises in the morning. Also remember the huge deal about Sessions and the Russian ambassador and then the same denials by Dem pols that they met him, too.

Politicians who live in glass houses...
   82. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:34 PM (#5490646)
But Dershowitz is another matter entirely. He clearly knows about criminal law and has read the Constitution a million times more than your hero Khizir Khan has -- as well as the court decisions in the relevant areas. And Dershowitz can understand the subject matter. I get that Dershowitz disagrees with you so he has to be destroyed also, but you look really dumb trying to make fun of him.
How do you reconcile this brilliant statement:
It is unseemly, at the very least, for a former director of the FBI to launder potentially classified material through a law professor in order to get it to the media. It was also cowardly for Comey to use this indirect method to seek the appointment of a special counsel. He can be rightly criticized for failing openly to seek the appointment of a special counsel. But his conduct does not seem to rise to the level of illegality, notwithstanding President Trump's hasty tweet.
with:
18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information
...

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

He either gave classified information to his friend, who was an "unauthorized person", and committed a crime, or he didn't. Right? I mean I haven't seen the info and the friend says it wasn't marked classified, so maybe it's all bluster on the part of the POTUS? I don't know.

Erik Wemple at WaPo has an interesting take.
   83. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:42 PM (#5490649)
Adams makes you look and feel stupid so I get why you need to destroy him.


To be fair he makes you look pretty stupid too.
   84. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:43 PM (#5490650)
Saying that politicians and politicsl operatives lie to the media is like saying the sun rises in the morning.

It is more than that. Several people have failed to mention these foreign meetings when they were cleared to join the administration which isn't normal. Two members of the campaign have had to register as "foreign agents". Every time there is a hearing whoever is testifying (Comey, Yates, Clapper, Coats, Rogers) has to clam up and say 'cannot discuss in open setting'. Its all very tantalizing. Even if it is all very innocent, it seems to be edited like one of Trump's reality shows where you're left hanging waiting what will happen next and it'll be months/years before we find out what happened (if anything).
   85. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:44 PM (#5490651)
It's one thing to make fun of Adams. His brand of observation is not really anchored to anything scientific. I mean, granted he picked Trump as the election winner 15 months in advance when almost all of the rest of you couldn't pick the election winner an hour in advance, but fair enough; Adams makes you look and feel stupid so I get why you need to destroy him.

But Dershowitz is another matter entirely. He clearly knows about criminal law and has read the Constitution a million times more than your hero Khizir Khan has -- as well as the court decisions in the relevant areas. And Dershowitz can understand the subject matter. I get that Dershowitz disagrees with you so he has to be destroyed also, but you look really dumb trying to make fun of him.
It's not that Dershowitz disagrees with me - I have no idea whether what he says is true or not, because I don't know constitutional law well enough. And it's not that Adams was right about the election - even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. It's just that it's laughable you keep dipping into these 2 wells only because you can't find anyone else that buys into your worldview so you quote both of them over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

   86. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:47 PM (#5490653)
Jim Comey acted like a sheriff in a one-horse town the past year, to the applauss of whomever wasn't getting dicked at the moment. If he doesn't go to jail it's because he's got all of Hoover's old files and then some.
   87. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:50 PM (#5490654)
it seems to be edited like one of Trump's reality shows where you're left hanging waiting what will happen next and it'll be months/years before we find out what happened (if anything).

It's good for ratings.
   88. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: July 10, 2017 at 06:51 PM (#5490655)
With that in mind...

Dershowitz: Not treason to serve as #### holster for Putin
   89. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2017 at 07:04 PM (#5490660)
BM keeps insisting that those people post HERE. Can't seem to name any names other than SBB though, who you all agree is the trolliest troll that ever trolled.


Yawn. I don't feel compelled to trawl through that nonsense again to satisfy weird demands by you. Reading them once was more than enough.
   90. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 07:08 PM (#5490661)
To be fair he makes you look pretty stupid too.


Perhaps. But perhaps not as stupid as one who uses the word "hippies" every two and a half posts looks.
   91. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 07:24 PM (#5490666)
   92. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 07:27 PM (#5490668)
Dershowitz: Not treason to serve as #### holster for Putin

Homophobic insults will never get old.
   93. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 07:41 PM (#5490675)
To be fair he makes you look pretty stupid too.

Perhaps. But perhaps not as stupid as one who uses the word "hippies" every two and a half posts looks.


Maybe I should be quoting Wavy Gravy's latest musings. I don't see any of you squares getting an ice cream flavor named after you.
   94. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 07:49 PM (#5490680)
Jimmy Carter says hi:
The Trump administration has 133 nominees waiting for a vote and we learned a new word in the briefing, "stagflation"!

The scariest part? She's not even a Millennial.
   95. dog poop god (SS) Posted: July 10, 2017 at 07:53 PM (#5490681)
Twitter dumbs down a lot of smart people.
   96. zenbitz Posted: July 10, 2017 at 08:30 PM (#5490700)
Twitter probably smarten UPs Trump. Can you imagine how incoherent he'd be with 1400 characters?
   97. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2017 at 09:25 PM (#5490737)
I don't see any of you squares getting an ice cream flavor named after you.

They discontinued that flavor. If they every bring it back, let me know.
   98. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: July 10, 2017 at 09:26 PM (#5490740)
Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

Has Junior joined the "why didn't he just say 'no comment'?" club yet?
   99. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2017 at 09:40 PM (#5490747)

The Trump Administration's byline: "Does Not Meet the Legal Definition of Treason"

And don't forget: "He is not a crook"
   100. John Shade has yet to hear the Squeak Posted: July 10, 2017 at 09:50 PM (#5490751)
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