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Monday, December 11, 2017

OTP 11 December, 2017 - GOP strategist: Moore would have ‘date with a baseball bat’ if he tried dating teens where I grew up

“I grew up in Mississippi. Every father I knew, if he saw a guy like Roy Moore in his 30s trying to date his 16-year-old daughter, he would have had a date with a baseball bat,” Stevens, a former aide to Mitt Romney’s campaign, said on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.”

Stevens, who worked on former Alabama Gov. Bob Riley’s (R) primary campaign against Moore in 2006, said Moore has violated the “decency standard” of civil society in his previous alleged pursuit of teenage girls.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 08:53 AM | 2653 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bats, bats are afraid, politics

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   1. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 11, 2017 at 09:58 AM (#5589934)
So shall we place our bets on whether the GOP becomes Roypublicans?

I'd put Jones odds at 5-1 -- roughly the same as Trump's last year. Straight up, I suspect Moore wins by 4.

Pretty damn sad.
   2. Lassus Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:08 AM (#5589942)
“I grew up in Mississippi. Every father I knew, if he saw a guy like Roy Moore in his 30s trying to date his 16-year-old daughter, he would have had a date with a baseball bat,”

"Unless it helps Hillary get elected. In which case... sorry, girl. Knock loud when you get brought home."
   3. dlf Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5589944)
FWIW - About one month ago, I drove across Alabama from Auburn to Gulf Shores and back seeing a LOT of Moore yard signs at individual homes and highway rights of way while seeing only one Jones sign. On Saturday, I again drove across, but along I20 from west of Tuscaloosa to east of Anniston and this time I saw no signs for either candidate. I did, however, see one major billboard company that had at least a dozen signs that just said Vote then below put the date of the election.
   4. Nero Wolfe, Indeed Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:23 AM (#5589949)
I'd put Jones odds at 5-1 -- roughly the same as Trump's last year. Straight up, I suspect Moore wins by 4.


I don't think it will be that close, sadly. I believe most of the undecided's will vote for Moore. When a pollster asks the question, it's easier to say you haven't made a decision rather than to admit you're voting for a pedophile.

And I'd love to be wrong.
   5. DavidFoss Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5589951)
Fox: Jones +10
Emerson: Moore +9

It's going to come down to turnout...
   6. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5589952)
I would refuse to vote for Moore on the grounds that he's a child molester. But what the elites of society can't understand while sipping their cocktails at their fancy parties in their fancy buildings is that voting for candidates is an adult decision. As such it typically boils down to more than one factor. Children can't handle more than one issue at a time, and therefore they would almost have to be single-issue voters. But adults are able to function at a higher capacity than that. Adults -- serious ones -- can and do vote having many factors in mind, ranging from ideology to self interest to others. For adults who are struggling -- rather than sipping cocktails at their high society dinners -- and see liberal policies as harmful, either to society or to their own self interest, they can and will vote on multiple issues. They don't like that Moore is a child molester, but voting for candidates is a wider inquiry than that.

You'd think the elites would have learned from the election of Trump that voters don't boil things down to single issues -- particularly those issues that are unrelated to what the politician would actually be doing on the job. But apparently more lessons will have to be given before light dawns.
   7. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:28 AM (#5589953)
Not sure what the linked-to article has to do even tangentially with baseball.
   8. McCoy Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5589954)
Wow
   9. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5589957)
I don't think it's hopeless for Jones - ~20% ain't hopeless, just ask the Orange dumbass - but it's absolutely appalling that he's the underdog at all. Even if he wins, I doubt it would be by more than a point or two.

Even if you choose to set aside the fondling of a 14 yo and chasing 15-16-17 yos when he was a man in his 30s, we're talking about a guy that is 9/11 truther curious... a man that can be accurately described as a theocrat... a man that thinks we went off the rails after the first 10 amendments -- and the cherry on top is that it's ridiculous for him to make arcane procedural arguments on such grounds, given that he has twice been kicked off the state supreme court because he rejects law that was settled way back when he thinks everything was fine to begin with.

David Brooks is right --

The rot afflicting the G.O.P. is comprehensive — moral, intellectual, political and reputational.

The problem for everyone else is that the GOP base appears to have a rot fetish. Does it really matter whether they actually LIKE the rot or just pretend to like it because it pisses off everyone who doesn't?

   10. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5589959)
But what the elites of society can't understand while sipping their cocktails at their fancy parties in their fancy buildings is that voting for candidates is an adult decision.


Little Lord Fauntleray gazes down from his NYC apartment to explain to us proles how the working class thinks. Mighty white of him, really.
   11. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5589961)
The rot afflicting the G.O.P. is comprehensive — moral, intellectual, political and reputational.


Only a matter of time before a candidate on the level of Trump/Moore appears as a D.

The sexual harassment / groping scandals should have told you that rot isn't an R/D thing; it's a politicians thing -- because it's a human thing. See Conyers and Franken. And politicians are among the worst humans of the lot.

You're living in a glass house. Throw stones at the risk of looking naive and foolish, now and later.
   12. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5589962)
I would refuse to vote for Moore on the grounds that he's a child molester. But what the elites of society can't understand while sipping their cocktails at their fancy parties in their fancy buildings is that voting for candidates is an adult decision. As such it typically boils down to more than one factor. Children can't handle more than one issue at a time, and therefore they would almost have to be single-issue voters. But adults are able to function at a higher capacity than that. Adults -- serious ones -- can and do vote having many factors in mind, ranging from ideology to self interest to others. For adults who are struggling -- rather than sipping cocktails at their high society dinners -- and see liberal policies as harmful, either to society or to their own self interest, they can and will vote on multiple issues. They don't like that Moore is a child molester, but voting for candidates is a wider inquiry than that.

You'd think the elites would have learned from the election of Trump that voters don't boil things down to single issues -- particularly those issues that are unrelated to what the politician would actually be doing on the job. But apparently more lessons will have to be given before light dawns.


It's cute when Ray pretends to be Common Man Ray.
   13. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5589963)
Not sure what the linked-to article has to do even tangentially with baseball.


Ummm. OK. Even if there is no relation even tangentially to baseball (Really????), so what? I look for articles that sit at the intersection of baseball and politics, that won't be published as baseball articles here. During the off season pickings are slim.

But if you want to start posting these every week, I don't have any investment in spending a few minutes every Monday morning. So I assume you will hanble it next week and show me how it is done?
   14. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5589966)
But what the elites of society can't understand while sipping their cocktails at their fancy parties in their fancy buildings....For adults who are struggling -- rather than sipping cocktails at their high society dinners....

This is why I will never put Ray on ignore.

P. S. I have no idea how Bamalama will vote tomorrow, but either way the Democrats win.
   15. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5589967)
Ummm. OK. Even if there is no relation even tangentially to baseball (Really????), so what? I look for articles that sit at the intersection of baseball and politics, that won't be published as baseball articles here. During the off season pickings are slim.


Typically the OTP article has at least something to do tangentially with baseball. New stadia, a player who dares to say he's not a liberal -- something.

But if you want to start posting these every week, I don't have any investment in spending a few minutes every Monday morning. So I assume you will hanble it next week and show me how it is done?


No thanks. It's not my bag. Clearly it's yours.
   16. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5589969)
Not sure what the linked-to article has to do even tangentially with baseball.

Well, the headline didn't say "a date with a cricket bat".
   17. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5589970)
The rot afflicting the G.O.P. is comprehensive — moral, intellectual, political and reputational.



Only a matter of time before a candidate on the level of Trump/Moore appears as a D.

The sexual harassment / groping scandals should have told you that rot isn't an R/D thing; it's a politicians thing -- because it's a human thing. See Conyers and Franken.


And if that happens, I will no longer be a Democrat.

Again... Moore would be ridiculous even without the child molestation. The guy is an honest-to-goodness theocrat... I cannot imagine the liberal/Democratic parallel - what would it be, something like outlawing churches? I'd be repulsed and absolutely reject such a Democrat.
   18. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5589971)
Only a matter of time before a candidate on the level of Trump/Moore appears as a D.


And I sure won't vote for them, support them in any way. Nor will I "whatabout?" attack those who are against such a candidate. And I expect most of the liberal posters here will act in the same way.

Little Lord Fauntleray gazes down from his NYC apartment to explain to us proles how the working class thinks. Mighty white of him, really.

It's cute when Ray pretends to be Common Man Ray.


I am willing to bet that Ray has attended more "parties in their fancy buildings" while sipping cocktails (or whatever) than I ever have or ever will (by several orders of magnitude). Wasn't he just recently bragging about attending a party where Trump spawn were in attendance? I mean really.
   19. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:43 AM (#5589974)
Only a matter of time before a candidate on the level of Trump/Moore appears as a D.

Wait, I thought they'd already had one in Hillary, or are you now easing off on her?
   20. BrianBrianson Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:43 AM (#5589975)
Throwing stones now is the way to head it off at the pass. Are more (D)s going to get taken down for (molesting/raping/assaulting/whatever)? Yes. And each one that gets turfed makes it easier to turf the next. Are (D)s going to nominate and vote for people they know are openly (molesters/pedophiles/rapists/assaulters)? Seems less likely the more they're cracked down on, and the more people take a moral stance against it.
   21. Swoboda is freedom Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:43 AM (#5589976)
Every father I knew, if he saw a guy like Roy Moore in his 30s trying to date his 16-year-old daughter, he would have had a date with a baseball bat,”

My daughter is 14 and if a 30 year old guy tried to take her out, I would certainly threaten him with the bat. Then call the cops and his job to report him.

I think I would reserve the bat for the second date.
   22. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5589978)
Typically the OTP article has at least something to do tangentially with baseball. New stadia, a player who dares to say he's not a liberal -- something.


Or maybe ... something to do with a piece of baseball equipment? Like say shinguards, baseball caps, or spittoons. Yeah sorry, next time I will try to find an article like that. /snicker.

No thanks. It's not my bag. Clearly it's yours.


Right, I contribute to the community here, by following the wishes of the site owner. And you ... post inane criticisms of people like me. Let's just stay in our lane then, shall we?
   23. dejarouehg Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:46 AM (#5589980)
Not sure what the linked-to article has to do even tangentially with baseball.
You mean this Doug Jones isn't the old Indians reliever? (I knew Moore couldn't be the pitcher from the '20s)


Ray, for the Progressives, I truly believe that they can't fathom that they have to share a country with these people and it galls them that they even have the right to vote. (Funny though, for all their intellectual superiority, they still refuse to take the blame for putting up Ralph Nader and not forcing him to drop out, which begot us GB, and so on.)

This race is so shameful and just continues to show how impotent the Democratic Party is. How many could pick Jones out of a line up of 3 people?

   24. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:47 AM (#5589983)
The sexual harassment / groping scandals should have told you that rot isn't an R/D thing; it's a politicians thing -- because it's a human thing. See Conyers and Franken.


Neither of whom is in office anymore, you may note.

Moral rot may not be a partisan issue, but institutional tolerance of moral rot certainly seems to be.
   25. Larvell B Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5589984)
Dems had their chance to stand up when it was Bill Clinton 20 years ago, and they failed dismally.

Hillary's "vast right wing conspiracy" and Bill was just "ministering to a troubled young woman" is no more sane than the Moore crackers' "vast left wing conspiracy."

And Ray is entirely right about children and adults.
   26. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5589985)
The top stories today on the Mueller investigation that I can find from the-googling:

Mueller Probing the 18 Days Up to Flynn's Firing: Sources

Some of those interviewed by Mueller's team believe the goal is in part to determine if there was a deliberate effort by Trump or top officials in the West Wing to cover up information about the national security adviser


Mueller appears to be looking deep into Trump’s finances

Special counsel Robert Mueller has reportedly subpoenaed Deutsche Bank for financial information on President Donald Trump and his associates as part of the investigation into potential collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia during the 2016 presidential election.


This has started to take on the feel of Capone's vault. Recall that Geraldo had a medical examiner on hand should bodies be discovered; he had IRS agents standing at the ready; etc. And when he finally got in there all he found was trash. And yet he tried to hype it up anyway: "We have some important documents here........ looks like moonshine receipts..." He ordered them to keep digging further and they came up with some gin bottles or some such.

That's the feeling I'm getting with regard to the Mueller investigation. It was said that Flynn had the goods on Trump and had agreed to sing to Mueller. What was Flynn singing about, exactly? We had the ABC Brian Ross fake news story -- and now ABC in full damage control mode has banned Ross from Trump coverage -- but beyond that the evidence for Russia collusion remains scant.
   27. Larvell B Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5589986)
Moral rot may not be a partisan issue, but institutional tolerance of moral rot certainly seems to be.


LOL. The modern era of "moral rot" all started with the rabid defense of Bill Clinton 20 years ago.
   28. Larvell B Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:51 AM (#5589989)
Some of those interviewed by Mueller's team believe the goal is in part to determine if there was a deliberate effort by Trump or top officials in the West Wing to cover up information about the national security adviser


Another non-issue. Presidents and president-elects have every right to conduct secret diplomacy.
   29. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5589991)
I am willing to bet that Ray has attended more "parties in their fancy buildings" while sipping cocktails (or whatever) than I ever have or ever will (by several orders of magnitude).

Well, next Saturday night my favorite pool room is throwing a Christmas bash before the tournament, and they promise to serve only the fanciest Buffalo wings and fries. And does chugging Jager Bombs count as cocktail sipping?

   30. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:53 AM (#5589993)
Throwing stones now is the way to head it off at the pass. Are more (D)s going to get taken down for (molesting/raping/assaulting/whatever)? Yes. A


If we get the details of the sexual harassment taxpayer settlements I guaranfuckingtee you that as many Democrats will be on the list as Republicans.

(But few if any women, despite the desperate attempts of the pro-Science left to pretend that men and women act the same.)
   31. Lassus Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:53 AM (#5589995)
And Ray is entirely right about children and adults.

Are the adults referred to in this situation fondling the children?

   32. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5589998)
Right, I contribute to the community here, by following the wishes of the site owner. And you ... post inane criticisms of people like me. Let's just stay in our lane then, shall we?


Wait... let me save Lassus and Srul the trouble:

Which lane are you referring to? The CATCHER'S THROWING LANE??????
   33. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5590000)
The sexual harassment / groping scandals should have told you that rot isn't an R/D thing; it's a politicians thing -- because it's a human thing. See Conyers and Franken.

Neither of whom is in office anymore, you may note.


Franken still is, and may well decide to stay there if Moore is elected. He's already whined about how unfair it all is that he couldn't grope women and remain in the job despite WhatABOUTTheseOthers worse offenders than himself.
   34. Lassus Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5590001)
and they promise to serve only the fanciest Buffalo wings and fries. And does chugging Jager Bombs count as cocktail sipping?

Ray only wishes he was there instead of taking photos with the Trump children, like the common working-class men of earth he represents.
   35. reech Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:58 AM (#5590002)
Soooooooo...
Will there be more outrage here if Moore wins than there was yesterday when Morris was elected?
   36. Lassus Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5590003)
Will there be more outrage here if Moore wins

No one's going to be outraged. We're used to it by now.
   37. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5590005)
Fox News and Emerson are both well respected pollsters (yes, I realize that Fox News is basically the Trump Propaganda Network these days, but their polling is separate from that) who have been around a long time. Fox has Jones +10, while Emerson has Moore +9. That’s ridiculous and shows how nobody knows how to model the electorate. I think Zonk is way underestimating Jones right now- it’s a coin flip.
   38. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:00 AM (#5590006)
A nickel's worth of free advice....

Maybe limit to EITHER "It's complicated and adults have to consider many things" OR "It's all just binary" arguments on a single page.

Making both arguments within minutes of each other - depending on who you want to defend or attack at any given moment - is not... as they say... a good look.
   39. Lassus Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:01 AM (#5590007)
That’s ridiculous and shows how nobody knows how to model the electorate. I think Zonk is way underestimating Jones right now- it’s a coin flip.

One can only hope it is a very very interesting day.
   40. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:02 AM (#5590009)
I can definitely understand this criticism. As a realist, I think she is absolutely being stupid.

What I can't do though, is reconcile this criticism coming from anybody who has ever voted libertarian. Or regularly argues that people in the US should elect libertarians.
This is sort of an odd criticism directed at someone who expressly announced he would vote for Hillary Clinton (and encouraged others to do so) if necessary to defeat Trump. (Spoiler alert: they didn't listen to me.)
Either voting based on your ideals and principles - regardless of how futile - is reasonable, or it is not. Either standing up for what you believe, despite certain electoral defeat, is reasonable, or it is not.
No, this poses a mistaken binary. Sometimes it's reasonable to vote libertarian (whether futile or not) and sometimes it isn't. It depends on who's running and how the contest is shaping up. When I vote libertarian, it's because I don't think one of the two major candidates is sufficiently better than the other (from a libertarian perspective) to warrant my vote. If one of the two major party candidates is significantly more libertarian than the other, then I see nothing wrong with supporting that candidate to move the city/state/country a bit more in the libertarian direction.


This person, on the other hand, recognizes how awful Moore is and recognizes that Jones is much better, but wants to (a) punish him for not going far enough, and (b) is concerned about his tone at least as much as substance.
   41. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5590014)
Ray learned about the needs of the common man from listening to Don’t Trump, Jr host tenants in posh Manhattan digs.
   42. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5590015)
Fox: Jones +10
Emerson: Moore +9


When I first saw this, I thought you were referring to an older Fox poll that also had Jones way ahead. But now I see you meant their newest poll, which I didn't see on RCP until a minute ago.

So maybe there's hope after all, but one thing's for sure: At least one or two pollsters are going to look pretty foolish, no matter how this thing turns out.

It's going to come down to turnout...

....by African Americans, fed up women, younger whites, and suburban Republican whites who are tired of seeing their state being the butt of all jokes. Whether that'll be enough is anyone's guess.
   43. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5590017)
Either ideology and principles matter, or results are everything.
As mentioned, no.
If it is the later, you should never vote libertarian, and always vote for the candidate that has a chance to win, who is more libertarian than his/her opponent(s).
And this mistakenly assumes that there is always one (major party) candidate that is more libertarian than his/her opponents.
   44. Larvell B Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5590023)
Both sides (####### insanely) look at politics as a Manichean death struggle in which a political loss means potential tribal suicide. Therefore all manner of tactics and inventions about the other side pollute the civic square and civic life.

Both sides just completely suck, and the shrill claims that the other side is "worse" look simply ridiculous from the sane center. We have a juvenile, irrational public life and a country filled with religious freakery and guns everywhere and an absurd gun culture and mass shootings and police killings routinely.

D-E-C-L-I-N-E.
   45. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5590024)
One party being slow, but eventually excising the moral rot is not equivalent to the other party actively adding to and deepening the moral rot.
   46. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:10 AM (#5590028)
I would refuse to vote for Moore on the grounds that he's a child molester. But what the elites of society can't understand while sipping their cocktails at their fancy parties in their fancy buildings
Uh, Ray, that's you. You don't speak for the common man.

is that voting for candidates is an adult decision. As such it typically boils down to more than one factor.
No, that's actually wrong. It boils down to one factor: abortion. If Jones were pro-life, it wouldn't be a choice between a child molester and an abortionist. Alabama Republicans aren't voting for Moore because they like his policy on tax reform better.
   47. Larvell B Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:11 AM (#5590029)
One party being slow, but eventually excising the moral rot


They're only doing it for partisan advantage. They don't really mean it. If they really meant it, they would have acted on it 20 years ago. Instead, they did the exact opposite.

Way too late now.

The nutty leftists made the Clintons (LOL) the center of American political life for 25 years and they wanted to make it at least 8 more. If Hillary had been elected, the Clinton regency would have been 1992-2025. Thirty-three years, with Chelsea in the wings and more young patrons to come. If Hillary Clinton had been elected, she would have kept sheltering Weinstein, Bill would have been reborn and feted and re-empowered, and you wouldn't have heard a single peep about #metoo.

That's the reality; the rest is just noise.

   48. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:12 AM (#5590030)
Fox News and Emerson are both well respected pollsters (yes, I realize that Fox News is basically the Trump Propaganda Network these days, but their polling is separate from that) who have been around a long time. Fox has Jones +10, while Emerson has Moore +9. That’s ridiculous and shows how nobody knows how to model the electorate. I think Zonk is way underestimating Jones right now- it’s a coin flip.


Maybe... I mean - I certainly hope so for all sorts of reasons, where the laundry rooting is actually a distant 2nd.

I suppose another potentially good 'movement' sign is that Moore has been in hiding for pretty much the past week while Jones has been hitting the trail hard and Dems are certainly going all out for him.

Who knows, maybe there's a wee bit of Coakley/Scotty Pickup Truck to be in play, too.... IDK.
   49. PreservedFish Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5590033)
Primey for #6
   50. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5590034)
Both sides just completely suck, and the shrill claims that the other side is "worse" look simply ridiculous from the sane center. We have a juvenile, irrational public life and a country filled with religious freakery and guns everywhere.


Co-signing with da Bear.

What the hell...?
   51. Greg K Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:14 AM (#5590037)
They're only doing it for partisan advantage. They don't really mean it. If they really meant it, they would have acted on it 20 years ago. Instead, they did the exact opposite.

This reminds me of a Stewart Lee line about Tories and Labour.

They both say they want to throw the poor into a sack, beat them, and toss them into the river. But the Tories at least look like they mean it.
   52. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:15 AM (#5590039)
Which lane are you referring to? The CATCHER'S THROWING LANE??????


I promise next week I will look for an article on the venerable Catcher's throwing lane, rules and traditions, but if I can't find one I might have to link to an article with less to do with America's pastime.
   53. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5590040)
I would refuse to vote for Moore on the grounds that he's a child molester.

Then,

Children can't handle more than one issue at a time, and therefore they would almost have to be single-issue voters. But adults are able to function at a higher capacity than that. Adults -- serious ones -- can and do vote having many factors in mind, ranging from ideology to self interest to others.



Yes, DM #4, you are a child. We know that.
   54. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5590041)

Only a matter of time before a candidate on the level of Trump/Moore appears as a D.

And I sure won't vote for them, support them in any way. Nor will I "whatabout?" attack those who are against such a candidate. And I expect most of the liberal posters here will act in the same way.
No, but you'll mouth platitudes about "democracy" and the "will of the voters" and all that meaningless crap.
   55. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5590042)
They both say they want to throw the poor into a sack, beat them, and toss them into the river.


Jonathan Swift: "Yumyum! Eat 'em up! Eat 'em up!"
   56. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5590043)
SBB wouldn’t know anything about sanity or the center.
   57. Shredder Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5590044)
I would refuse to vote for Moore on the grounds that he's a child molester. But what the elites of society can't understand while sipping their cocktails at their fancy parties in their fancy buildings is that voting for candidates is an adult decision.
Wasn't Ray just like a week ago bragging about sipping cocktails at a fancy party in a fancy building with the Trump spawn?
   58. Lassus Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5590045)
and the shrill claims that the other side is "worse" look simply ridiculous from the sane center.

When you get there, let us know.
   59. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5590046)
Another non-issue. Presidents and president-elects have every right to conduct secret diplomacy.
Once more: presidents-elect have no rights at all relating to the presidency or foreign policy. There are certain courtesies customarily extended to them, but as a matter of grace, not right.
   60. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:19 AM (#5590049)
They both say they want to throw the poor into a sack, beat them, and toss them into the river. But the Tories at least look like they mean it.


Except of course for the analogy to be true it would be one party actively hates the poor while the other didn't follow through on something twenty years ago. Except of course they couldn't because 20 years ago the chance to do something had passed. But darn it, still the two parties in this example are totally the same!
   61. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:20 AM (#5590054)
No, but you'll mouth platitudes about "democracy" and the "will of the voters" and all that meaningless crap.


Democracy is neither meaningless nor crap. It is imperfect but still the best available option.
   62. Morty Causa Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:22 AM (#5590055)
Certain people here - you know who you are - like to pretend that the left side of the aisle is reasonable in contrast to the right side, which is full of crazy people who move farther to the right each year and refuse to compromise at all. So here's someone from the left making the case why she won't support Doug Jones in Alabama, because he's not leftist enough. In Alabama. And expressly denounces him for appearing to have a willingness to try to compromise. In Alabama. (Not for actually compromising on any issue, but merely for implying that he wants to compromise - the sort of platitude that 90% of politicians mouth.)

She's not arguing that people in NY or MA should elect a flaming lefty; she's arguing that people in Alabama should.


In a roundtable discussion on NPR a couple of weeks ago the liberal Democrat anti-Trump talking head couldn't understand why the Trump administration wasn't doing more for "diversity". She was incensed, outraged, all but at a loss for words. It's, like, you wanted to say to her, duh, you do know the diversity element's candidate wasn't elected, don't you? But some people think even when they lose they should get their way. That's the big problem when people don't think process means anything, and think that its result should always bow before one's state of the art sensibilities.
   63. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5590056)
“I grew up in Mississippi. Every father I knew, if he saw a guy like Roy Moore in his 30s trying to date his 16-year-old daughter, he would have had a date with a baseball bat,” Stevens, a former aide to Mitt Romney’s campaign, said on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.”


I didn't RTFA. Is this similar to broomstick hazing? Kinky.
   64. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5590057)
Both sides just completely suck, and the shrill claims that the other side is "worse" look simply ridiculous from the sane center. We have a juvenile, irrational public life and a country filled with religious freakery and guns everywhere.
Uh huh.
   65. Lassus Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:26 AM (#5590059)
Democracy is neither meaningless nor crap. It is imperfect but still the best available option.

It's probably both, and probably still the best available option.
   66. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:27 AM (#5590061)
The dumbest possible political stand is that the two major parties are the same. I can see a rational argument as to why one would prefer Republicans over Democrats, and I can obviously see the reverse. But anyone who doesn't see any difference between them, who suggests they are the same, is a moron.

The two parties have a shrinking sliver of agreements and a huge chasm of differences. It would take quite a political and moral system to have both come out equal.
   67. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:28 AM (#5590063)
I actually have some empathy for Ray and his envious suspicion that he's only being invited to the shit-fancy NYC parties, not the good ones.
   68. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:29 AM (#5590065)
And politicians are among the worst humans of the lot.


Well, many of them do start out as lawyers...
   69. Srul Itza Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:33 AM (#5590068)
I think Zonk is way underestimating Jones right now- it’s a coin flip.


Heads Moore wins
Tails Jones loses.


Moore will win easily.

Because ALABAMA.
   70. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5590069)
“I grew up in Mississippi. Every father I knew, if he saw a guy like Roy Moore in his 30s trying to date his 16-year-old daughter, he would have had a date with a baseball bat,” Stevens, a former aide to Mitt Romney’s campaign, said on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.”
This appears to be an attempt to move Mississippi up one rung from #48 to #47, in the US State Pecking Order. I'm not sure I buy it.

Of course CNBC has Mississippi six places ahead of AL. Their system might overweight all the premature dying happening in AL, though.
   71. Larvell B Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5590070)
The two parties have a shrinking sliver of agreements and a huge chasm of differences.


That's the Manichean perspective. They really don't. There are some, but "huge chasm" is batshit insane.

I mean, Jonathan Chait -- formerly sane -- said the Trump tax bill was a "horror unleashed on the nation." You can't have a sane public life with that kind of thinking and writing from some of your better thinkers.
   72. Srul Itza Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:35 AM (#5590071)
we're talking about a guy that is 9/11 truther curious... a man that can be accurately described as a theocrat... a man that thinks we went off the rails after the first 10 amendments -- and the cherry on top is that it's ridiculous for him to make arcane procedural arguments on such grounds, given that he has twice been kicked off the state supreme court because he rejects law that was settled way back when he thinks everything was fine to begin with.


In Alabama, these things are a feature, not a bug
   73. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:35 AM (#5590073)
I would refuse to vote for Moore on the grounds that he's a child molester. But


What's that phrase? Everything after the "but" is meaningless?

Look, if all Moore was was the republican equivalent of Al Franken, an otherwise competent and effective public servant who had one major flaw concerning women (or in Moore's case, girls), that would be one thing. But in addition to the alleged child molestation, Moore is a guy who was twice removed from office for failure to follow the law, has spoken out in favor of slavery, has called for homosexual acts to be illegal, and on and on. Adults can and should hold more than one thought in their head. What that has to do with excusing Moore supporters is beyond me.
   74. Morty Causa Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:36 AM (#5590074)
Dems had their chance to stand up when it was Bill Clinton 20 years ago, and they failed dismally.

I may have missed where Bill Clinton tried to put the make on young teens? And if this refers to any assault allegations, that's all they are--allegations. Clinton, unlike Weinstein, et al., has admitted and confessed to nothing. That means the burden is on his accusers. I would hope this is a distinction that isn't fobbed off.
   75. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:36 AM (#5590075)
A democratic process that ends in Donald Trump is so flawed as to be trashed. The Constitution isn’t a suicide pact.
   76. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5590079)
Roy Moore is George Wallace who molests children. And he is the vanguard of today’s GOP.
   77. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5590080)
I actually have some empathy for Ray and his envious suspicion that he's only being invited to the ####-fancy NYC parties, not the good ones.


The party I was at last week was quite good, actually. Best California and avocado rolls I've ever had. Free wine and desserts and other food.

Tonight I have the party for my actual building - as opposed to just the general party for all Trump unit owners. (This was the first year they've done the combined one. Eric and Don promised they'd run it again next year.)
   78. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5590081)
The Alabama Senate election is most definitely a coin flip.
   79. Lassus Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5590084)
What's that phrase? Everything after the "but" is meaningless?

Before, actually.
   80. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5590085)

The dumbest possible political stand is that the two major parties are the same. I can see a rational argument as to why one would prefer Republicans over Democrats, and I can obviously see the reverse. But anyone who doesn't see any difference between them, who suggests they are the same, is a moron.

The two parties have a shrinking sliver of agreements and a huge chasm of differences. It would take quite a political and moral system to have both come out equal.
I'm not sure who you're responding to here, but since it's relevant to my libertarian views, I'll respond: I would rarely say that the two parties are "the same." However, they could be and frequently are bad in different ways, such that their overall distance from my ideal is similar.

(That having been said, I disagree with your premise. The parties pretend to disagree big time on every issue, but there's no huge chasm on most issues. (A few, like abortion, yeah.). The differences are minor. A liberal or conservative might think it's a big deal that one party wants to spend 3% more than the other or raise taxes 2% or the like, but there's no reason the rest of us need to agree.)
   81. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5590086)
Adults can and should hold more than one thought in their head. What that has to do with excusing Moore supporters is beyond me.


Explaining, not excusing, although your pretend objective advice for Republicans to just vote for the Democrat as ever is noted.
   82. Morty Causa Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5590087)
The Constitution isn’t a suicide pact.

Neither is BBTF OTP. But, you can commit suicide anyway.
   83. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:42 AM (#5590088)
Did Eric and Don tell you about the common man, Pip?
   84. DavidFoss Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:43 AM (#5590089)
What's that phrase? Everything after the "but" is meaningless?


He's not for him or Trump, he's against their critics.

It is TDSDS. He has more DS about TDS-ers than most TDS-ers have against T.

But we have to be tolerant of his intolerance about people's intolerance of the intolerant -- otherwise we're hypocrites! We would not have a good look.
   85. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:43 AM (#5590090)
Oh Morty. I’m going to hang around long enough to piss on yours and a few other graves.
   86. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:43 AM (#5590091)
Right, I contribute to the community here, by following the wishes of the site owner. And you ... post inane criticisms of people like me. Let's just stay in our lane then, shall we?


Your efforts are appreciated by this space mouse.

it's a tough job, in that new articles have to be posted every Monday. There might not be anything on Monday. there might have been a really good one on Saturday. Hell, tomorrow there may be a story about Steve Garvey out electioneering for Moore tomorrow. Many is the time some story was posted on a Wednesday or something and i find myself saying "Why couldn't this be the OTP article.

Give a rodent a break. Yeah, this blasts Moore, and I guess that even though you totally oppose him, you have to lash out because you find yourself on the same side as the lefties. It's what you do.
   87. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5590092)
How many times have you been to Alabama Ray?
   88. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5590094)
And Ray is entirely right about children and adults.


Yes he is. And as this space pointed out in #73, he is totally wrong in applying that principle to Moore.
   89. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:46 AM (#5590095)
How many times have you been to Alabama Ray?
Don't know about Ray, but I've seen My Cousin Vinny multiple times.
   90. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5590097)
I’m sure Mrs Nieporent knows tons about engines and tire tread.
   91. GordonShumway Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:52 AM (#5590103)
Roy Moore is George Wallace who molests children. And he is the vanguard of today’s GOP.


That's terribly unfair and insulting to Wallace.

Wallace was a legit war hero as a young man during WW2, had a reputation as being one of the fairest and racially tolerant judges in Alabama in the early and mid 1950s, and was a strong supporter of education in his state. By the time he was in late 50s, or over 10 years younger than Moore is now, he strongly renounced his segregation past and sought forgiveness from the black population. In his final term in office, he appointed more blacks for state positions than any previous AL governor.
   92. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5590104)
How many times have you been to Alabama Ray?


Does refusing to set foot in Alabama allow me to answer this with a negative number?
   93. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5590105)
(That having been said, I disagree with your premise. The parties pretend to disagree big time on every issue, but there's no huge chasm on most issues. (A few, like abortion, yeah.). The differences are minor. A liberal or conservative might think it's a big deal that one party wants to spend 3% more than the other or raise taxes 2% or the like, but there's no reason the rest of us need to agree.)


I said "a shrinking sliver of agreements and a huge chasm of differences", in other words there are few places they agree or are the same and many many places where they are different. Not all of those differences are huge, but the number of differences is huge.

Also, a change in spending or taxes by 3% each way is a big difference. Not to Ray, sure, but to the rest of us it is a very large difference.
   94. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:58 AM (#5590107)
Dancing monkey Moore supporter on CNN right now defending Moore's statement that America was last great when we had slavery. Not ironically. He even went back to the Hebrew bondage in Egypt as an example of families loving each other even though they were in slavery. So he hit the perfecta of tangentially speaking well of both Black and Jewish slavery in the same breath. Moore just went up 3 points. Do they get CNN in Alabama, or has the legislature banned it?

That's your party Clapper. Well done.
   95. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5590108)
Then how’s about you shut your simpering yap lecturing others on What Alabama Really Thinks, Wormtongue.
   96. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5590109)
[69] Your comment is noted and prepared to be used against you in 36 hours.
   97. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 11, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5590110)
Moore and Trump are the Republican Party. People who support them can’t be reasoned with any more than you can hug it out with an ISIS jihadi.
   98. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 12:02 PM (#5590111)
Explaining, not excusing, although your pretend objective advice for Republicans to just vote for the Democrat as ever is noted.


No. I'm fine with them staying home.
   99. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5590112)
No. I'm fine with them staying home.


Keep wondering why you lose elections to people like Trump and Moore. Eventually you might understand something about the subject other than OUTRAEG.
   100. Larvell B Posted: December 11, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5590115)
They lose elections to Trump and Moore because they other side believes the modern left will badly overreach if it gains power. There's certainly ample reason for that belief -- just look at how we've gone from gay marriage to bankrupting business who don't want to prepare custom gay wedding cakes in like 18 months.

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