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Monday, December 11, 2017

OTP 11 December, 2017 - GOP strategist: Moore would have ‘date with a baseball bat’ if he tried dating teens where I grew up

“I grew up in Mississippi. Every father I knew, if he saw a guy like Roy Moore in his 30s trying to date his 16-year-old daughter, he would have had a date with a baseball bat,” Stevens, a former aide to Mitt Romney’s campaign, said on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.”

Stevens, who worked on former Alabama Gov. Bob Riley’s (R) primary campaign against Moore in 2006, said Moore has violated the “decency standard” of civil society in his previous alleged pursuit of teenage girls.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 08:53 AM | 2653 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bats, bats are afraid, politics

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   1201. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5591828)
It is not particularly fair to leave out the top five DMC Dancing Monkeys. Boy, that fight/debate should be interesting. Should I go first?

1. Zonk
2. BM
3. Andy
4. BDC
5. Shredder


How is Bivens not on the list?
   1202. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5591830)
Feels. Got it.


??

I wasn't saying "feels," but feels are very important to markets.
   1203. Lassus Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:08 PM (#5591831)
Man, I thought people would be all over the opportunities presented by #1177. Shows what I know.
   1204. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5591833)
My position is that Colbert used the term "cockholster" in a derogatory and thus homophobic fashion.

Of course he did. It's not even debatable.
One person making declarative statements does not close a debate. That's not how sane interactions work.

"Derogatory", certainly. It's only homophobic if your mind was in the gutter to begin with. "Holstering" is gender-neutral, and it's not even debatable.
   1205. Lassus Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5591834)
I wasn't saying "feels,"

What else did you say BESIDES feels?

I thought "He's done nothing, gotcha!" was ridiculous so I had a hard time responding to that.
   1206. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:10 PM (#5591835)
The biggest pure Dem hack on the board, by far, is Andy. No one reduces every single issue to, "Well if we elected Democrats all would be well and if we elect Republicans all will be evil" more or "better" than he does. He has no conception of limited powers, separation of powers, independent judiciaries, norms and procedures applicable to all -- none of it. "Elect Democrats to the presidency and give the president massive powers and he'll appoint Supreme Court justices who will also do Democratic hackery" is his only answer.

He probably also has the biggest case of TDS on the board, though that's certainly more debatable.
   1207. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:10 PM (#5591836)
Shouldn't we be Dancing Donkeys? I mean it seems obvious to me. That said I do support the Democratic Party for the most part and so have no problem being included as a Dancing Donkey, even if I am only nominated and don't win anything.


Dressage Donkeys!

And I appreciate you making my low energy case.

We need someone who will stand up to crooked Ray!

When SBB posts, he's not posting his best - he's posting posts with a lot of problems. Those posts are like discussion drugs. They're ridiculous. And some, I assume, are good posts.

   1208. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:12 PM (#5591839)
How can Clapper satisfy this board when he can't even satisfy SBB?
   1209. Lassus Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5591840)
He probably also has the biggest case of TDS on the board

Not counting you, maybe.
   1210. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5591841)
Homophic or homophobia are horrible terms.

"Phobia" means you're afraid of something. If you hate gays, you're not necessarily afraid of them; you are, however, an assshole.
   1211. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:16 PM (#5591844)
"Phobia" means you're afraid of something. If you hate gays, you're not necessarily afraid of them; you are, however an assshole.


Again, the definition of homophobia is not limited to fear. Hatred or antipathy qualify.
   1212. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:18 PM (#5591846)
Not in the strict definition of "phobia."

I'm going to lunch, so I will [/pedant] for now...
   1213. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:18 PM (#5591847)
Joe: I'm hard pressed to see what value you add to this board.


Like I care what Dancing Monkey #4 thinks of me. Rise in the rankings and I may reassess that.




NOT!!!
   1214. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5591850)
I welcome, nay, ENCOURAGE those in Bivens' list to rank the opposite side accordingly.

Many posters on the left here do little more than deal in non-substantive name-calling & insults directed at those who hold contrary views. Who would want to emulate that? Just because those folks lack the self-awareness to realize that they are labeling themselves as Sam-level stupid doesn't mean that others should follow suit.
   1215. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5591851)
Again, the definition of homophobia is not limited to fear. Hatred or antipathy qualify.
Even so, the comment only describes the relative relationship (dominant vs., ah, "receptive"), it's not all judgey on the morals. Unless you think it is, I suppose. It is crude, but doesn't promote hatred or antipathy.
   1216. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:21 PM (#5591852)
How is Bivens not on the list?


Because, as Ray has rightly alluded to, I rarely add anything to this board other than mockery. I don't think that qualifies me to any position of whatever.
   1217. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:22 PM (#5591853)
Not in the strict definition of "phobia."

I'm going to lunch, so I will [/pedant] for now...


We're talking about the word "homophobia," not the word "phobia."

It's not a pedantic point. Narrowing the scope of homophobia to this extent basically defines it out of existence in 2017 America. There would be vanishingly few homophobic people in the US under that definition. It does gay people a disservice to wrongly define the word in this way.
   1218. Traderdave Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:22 PM (#5591854)
Many posters on the left here do little more than deal in non-substantive name-calling & insults directed at those who hold contrary views. Who would want to emulate that? Just because those folks lack the self-awareness to realize that they are labeling themselves as Sam-level stupid doesn't mean that others should follow suit.


You elected a guy like that. And you hope he gets re-elected.
   1219. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:24 PM (#5591858)
A 2018 Wave Is Building

This is how a wave happens, and the wave heading in 2018 got bigger and bigger during every contest this year — first in Georgia (which Democrats still lost), then in Virginia last month and then Alabama last night.

It took a lot of GOP mistakes for Democrat Doug Jones to get to 50 percent in Alabama. But here’s the thing: He was probably going to get 44 to 45 percent of the vote against a Luther Strange in this environment.

Ultimately, what took down Roy Moore was a combination of the allegations against him, plus the surge of Democratic voters. And don’t lose sight of the second part of that equation.


Click for a list of recent elections past last night and how they show a possible Democratic wave.

Republicans Shouldn’t Assume Roy Moore Was An Outlier

We can go through a similar exercise in Alabama. By the way we usually calculate these things, Alabama is 28 or 29 percentage points more Republican than the country as a whole, but Jones just won an election there by 1 or 2 points,2 representing a 30-point swing from the norm. That is, we have about 30 percentage points worth of blame to assign. So how to divvy them up? Consider:

* First, we can assign about 10 points to the national political environment. That’s because the generic congressional ballot favors Democrats by about 10 points, meaning that you’d expect the Democrat to win the typical swing seat by about 10 points in this political climate.3
* Next, we can assign about 10 points to Moore’s problems as a candidate other than the sexual misconduct allegations. If Republicans ordinarily win in Alabama by 25 or 30 points and the national environment favors Democrats by 10 points, you’d expect a “generic” Republican candidate to be ahead by 15 or 20 points. Instead, Moore’s lead was in the range of 5 to 10 points in polls before the sexual misconduct allegations came to light.4
* And finally, we can assign another 10 points to shifts in voter preferences and turnout patterns because of the misconduct allegations. That roughly matches the swing from the pre-allegation polls to Jones’s eventual margin of victory. It also lines up with empirical research on the electoral effects of scandals. Although many voters didn’t believe the allegations, many others did, and it affected Moore’s campaign in a variety of ways, such as by decreasing Republican enthusiasm.


Looking good GOP.

Note: Hoping to up my "Donkey" rating with this post.
   1220. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:25 PM (#5591860)
Many posters on the left here do little more than deal in non-substantive name-calling & insults directed at those who hold contrary views...


...as they pertain to Trump. With that added, it should be clear that I DGAF what you think.


edit...not that YOU care, but that was a weak effort on your part, DM #1. Be careful, or you'll slip to 1A.
   1221. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:26 PM (#5591862)
Joe: I'm hard pressed to see what value you add to this board.

If others here see it, please do fill me in.


YMMV, but he's sometimes funny, and his analysis makes at least as much sense as yours does.
   1222. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:28 PM (#5591864)
What analysis? He offers none.
   1223. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5591866)
Many posters on the left here do little more than deal in non-substantive name-calling & insults directed at those who hold contrary views. Who would want to emulate that?


Besides your President?

Let me just add what I'm sure are all the necessary cokes I owe upon refresh.
   1224. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5591867)
Again, the definition of homophobia is not limited to fear. Hatred or antipathy qualify.


It's nice that you know what the definition is. If only you could understand when it's appropriately used.
   1225. Traderdave Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:30 PM (#5591868)
Just heard a bit on KQED. A Republican strategist said there's a rumor boiling in DC that WaPo is very close to releasing a story implicating some 40 (Forty, half of eighty) members of Congress in sex harassment.


   1226. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5591872)
What analysis? He offers none.


Usually I don't, you're correct, i simply mock when analysis isn't required.

I think my analysis of BLM, using the "pie is wonderful doesn't mean cake isn't" analogy qualifies as analysis. That was yesterday. Maybe you missed it.
   1227. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:33 PM (#5591873)
Even so, the comment only describes the relative relationship (dominant vs., ah, "receptive"), it's not all judgey on the morals. Unless you think it is, I suppose. It is crude, but doesn't promote hatred or antipathy.


All the dictionaries seem to agree with Ray.

See?

Vote Zonk for Dressage Donkey! Only I can drain the OTP swamp and reach across the aisle. I will build a big, beautiful firewall to keep out the Clapperbots!
   1228. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:33 PM (#5591874)
Joe: I'm hard pressed to see what value you add to this board.

If others here see it, please do fill me in.


Like so many other things in life that seem to puzzle you, if you have to ask, you'll never know.
   1229. BrianBrianson Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5591876)
Jeez. It doesn't take a ton of nuance to understand why Trump blowing Putin might reflect poorly on Trump, while still being pro-blowing people. Like, aggressively (but consentually) pro-blowing people.
   1230. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5591878)
Many posters on the left here do little more than deal in non-substantive name-calling & insults directed at those who hold contrary views. Who would want to emulate that? Just because those folks lack the self-awareness to realize that they are labeling themselves as Sam-level stupid doesn't mean that others should follow suit.

Mighty rich coming from the message board poster that shamelessly referred to BM as a 'slimy little weasel'. But The Clapper likely has IOKIYAR coded on his DNA, so it's no surprise he reaches for the fainting couch when someone like Mr. Bivens dishes The Deplorables some of their own ####-posting.
   1231. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:36 PM (#5591879)
Vote Zonk for Dressage Donkey!

Only if you provide the suppressed 1979 photo of SBB fondling Hillary.
   1232. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:36 PM (#5591880)
Republicans Shouldn’t Assume Roy Moore Was An Outlier

For the entire special election, especially the last month, Democrats here & elsewhere argued strenuously that Roy Moore was such an outlier that he didn't deserve Republican support, and many GOP voters shared that concern. So it's a bit of a stretch to now suggest that Moore's loss is symptomatic of a GOP malaise. Moore's loss is the most candidate-specific result I can think of in recent years, if not decades.
   1233. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:37 PM (#5591881)
Moore's loss is the most candidate-specific result I can think of in recent years, if not decades.



Try about 13 months. Almost every race is "candidate specific", as the GOP strategists noted last night. You can't take anything for granted. You run a #### candidate, even in the reddest of red states, and you'll lose on occasion.
   1234. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:43 PM (#5591884)
Yeah, I mean who could possibly think a child molester was an outlier??

The mysteries -- they are so mysterious.

I'd prefer the Senate in Dem hands, obviously -- but only a nut would think the seat is confirmed blue. It was a total fluke.
   1235. BDC Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:43 PM (#5591885)
I have been voting in Republican primaries for quite a while now, often for candidates so far right they would be unimaginably caricatury to people who live in Brattleboro or Seattle – voting for them because they're the alternative to people even farther right. So I may have to bow out of the Dancing Donkey fraternity, though I am honored to be nominated. Perhaps I can join the nonpartisan Dancing Tired Wannabe Old New Leftist Addicted to the Failed Modern Liberal Policies of the Decline Monkey group.
   1236. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5591887)
For the entire special election, especially the last month, Democrats here & elsewhere argued strenuously that Roy Moore was such an outlier that he didn't deserve Republican support, and many GOP voters shared that concern. So it's a bit of a stretch to now suggest that Moore's loss is symptomatic of a GOP malaise. Moore's loss is the most candidate-specific result I can think of in recent years, if not decades.


1) "Many GOP voters" -- but not the GOP President.... and not his favorite Rooster Cogburn look-a-like

2) It was Alabama. Where even super-charged D turnout and somewhat lackadaisical R turnout still yielded an electorate that puts abortion above everything else.

But, hey - absolutely... I fully and without equivocation support Republicans believing everything is fine. I encourage it.
   1237. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5591888)
It is crude, but doesn't promote hatred or antipathy.

All the dictionaries seem to agree with Ray.
Well, maybe it's a Seattle thing. I can easily imagine that term being applied (in a derogatory fashion) to a slutty female, or alternatively, happily claimed by a recipient-type willing to be known for it.

Which doesn't deny that Colbert meant it as derogatory - he clearly did. I just don't automatically also assign an anti-gay component. I don't have a problem if Ray or others *do* see it that way, I'm just saying it isn't *necessarily* so.

And to Ray's point, *if* you find 'holster' to be homophobic, *then* you should also find the Gillenbrand parenthetical to be sexist, and vice versa.
   1238. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:47 PM (#5591889)
Joe: I'm hard pressed to see what value you add to this board.


Other than paying off his gambling debts?
   1239. Lassus Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:48 PM (#5591891)
Yeah, I mean who could possibly think a child molester was an outlier??

He outlied himself to a 1.5% loss with over 650,000 votes.
   1240. SteveF Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:49 PM (#5591892)
Other than paying off his gambling debts?

Ouch.
   1241. BDC Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:50 PM (#5591893)
And as for Donkey Dressage … you may think that is a joke, but awhile back I proposed Rule 34 of sport studies, which is "If you can think of it, there's a sport of it" (with subclauses 34b "There is a Sport Literature about It" and 34c "There is a Children's Sport Literature about It"). So inevitably there is donkey dressage, or at least mule dressage.
   1242. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:50 PM (#5591894)
But, hey - absolutely... I fully and without equivocation support Republicans believing everything is fine. I encourage it.


100%. Everything is great guys. No worries. Bad ratings and poor poll results didn't hurt Trump before. Trump won and like he promised you will keep winning so much you get tired of it.
   1243. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:52 PM (#5591897)
Other than paying off his gambling debts?


Yeah, he came up big on that front. Compare and contrast Dancing Donkey #1, who when things started going South, came up with an absurd pretext to welsh on a bet he routinely challenged people to make for months and months.

Who can possibly forget his "Well, if you really think Hillary's a bad candidate why don't you put your money where your mouth is" slapstick routine?? Then people do, and he welshes.

Quite the performance.
   1244. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:53 PM (#5591898)
Lassus has traditionally been very concerned about same-sex issues.

Thus I wonder if Lassus agrees with me that "homophobia" does not include as a necessary element "fear" of homosexuals or homosexuality.

Lassus?
   1245. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:55 PM (#5591901)
Ha!

Roger Stone has already started penning a book on Trump's downfall.

One Trump ally is making plans to commercialize Trump’s downfall. Longtime Trump confidant Roger Stone told me he is working on a book titled The Fall of Trump as part of a multi-book deal with Skyhorse Publishing. (Last fall, Skyhorse published Stone’s campaign account, The Making of the President 2016.) “I’ve been writing it as we go along,” he told me.

Stone said he got the idea to write a book chronicling Trump’s removal from office after watching how the White House responded to the Robert Mueller investigation. “It’s painfully obvious Mueller will bring charges,” Stone said. “The theory is Mueller will indict him on some process-related matter” such as obstruction of justice. “The only people who don’t seem to know it are Ty Cobb, [John] Dowd, and the president.”

Stone also believes Trump could be removed from office because he has surrounded himself with disloyal Cabinet members and other top officials. “Nikki Haley stuck a knife in his back,” Stone said, referring to her comments about Trump’s accusers. According to Stone’s back-of-the-napkin tally, only two Cabinet members would vote against invoking the 25th Amendment, the provision by which the president can be deemed unable to serve (Congress would have to vote by a two-thirds majority to remove him permanently).

Stone made it clear he’s not writing the book because he wants to, he’s just planning ahead. “I hope it’s a book I don’t have to publish,” he said, expressing dismay at Trump’s political prospects. “I just don’t think Trump is being told the truth about how bad things are.”
   1246. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5591902)
Ouch.




Ashtray money, bro.
   1247. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5591903)
The only Dem lockstepers I see are Zonk and Andy. The GOP locksteppers are Clapper and Jason. TGF and Blanks are off somewhere on an island. Ray is his own island.
   1248. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:59 PM (#5591905)
Yeah, he came up big on that front. Compare and contrast Dancing Donkey #1, who when things started going South, came up with an absurd pretext to welsh on a bet he routinely challenged people to make for months and months.


The Trumpkins are trying to steal my nomination!

Andy wins the SBB caucus and Zonk wins everywhere else? UNFAIR!

I'm representing a tremendous many, many millions of posters!. We'll have riots!
   1249. dlf Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:01 PM (#5591907)
For the entire special election, especially the last month, Democrats here & elsewhere argued strenuously that Roy Moore was such an outlier that he didn't deserve Republican support, and many GOP voters shared that concern. So it's a bit of a stretch to now suggest that Moore's loss is symptomatic of a GOP malaise. Moore's loss is the most candidate-specific result I can think of in recent years, if not decades.


Cosign, but to a degree. Moore's defeat in the general is as candidate specific a case as we can ever see. Toss Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, and Richard Mourdock into a blender then add a heaping dose of molestation (unknown during the primary & runoff) and you've concocted a blend uniquely bitter that was very much specific to one person, not the party generally.

Where I'd differ is that I think the issue of so-called GOP malaise was highlighted not by his loss in the general by his victory in the primary where his entire campaign was an attack on McConnell and the GOP. That he won on such a campaign over hard right Mo Brooks and Trump endorsed Luther Strange points to a great degree of dissension in the ranks.
   1250. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:02 PM (#5591909)
Yeah, he came up big on that front.


BFD, I paid off on a bet. No matter how Trump won, I would never ask for the money back should it be proven that he stole the election, which I think he did.

I find it offensive that anyone can defend Trump on any level whatsoever. That's what people should be ashamed about, defending Trump, using terms like "TDS" or whatever, not for failing to pay off on a bet, or keeping said gains even though they will ill gotten. And I mean all of that sincerely.
   1251. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:04 PM (#5591911)
Wait, wait.... say that again - louder. I want to make sure we have nice, clear audio of it for ads next year.

“I will say, we have to get more senators and more congressmen that are Republicans elected in ’18. And then you’ll see a lot more of what we’re doing right now,” he said.


   1252. Lassus Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5591913)
So it's a bit of a stretch to now suggest that Moore's loss is symptomatic of a GOP malaise.

I have zero problem agreeing with this.

But is this an argument that there is NO GOP malaise? Because that's probably questionable.
   1253. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5591914)
That's what people should be ashamed about, defending Trump, using terms like "TDS" or whatever, not for failing to pay off on a bet,


No, welshing on a bet is far more shame-worthy than correctly diagnosing TDS. TDS is obviously a real thing, and there's no serious dispute otherwise.
   1254. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:06 PM (#5591915)
Yeah, I mean who could possibly think a child molester was an outlier??

He outlied himself to a 1.5% loss with over 650,000 votes.

Which also happened to be 2.3% better than America's favorite pussy grabber got.
   1255. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:07 PM (#5591916)
Here's a question for the Dancing Monkeys:

If Franken and Conyers had to go, how can Trump be allowed to stay? There's more evidence about Trump than there is about the other 2, so what's the difference?

I brought this up on or about the day the Franken thing broke, and got little feedback. I wonder why?

Go ahead, Monkeys. DANCE!
   1256. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:08 PM (#5591917)
No, welshing on a bet is far more shame-worthy than correctly diagnosing TDS. TDS is obviously a real thing, and there's no serious dispute otherwise.


Well, with all due respect, you're a ####### idiot.
   1257. Srul Itza Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:10 PM (#5591920)
So it's a bit of a stretch to now suggest that Moore's loss is symptomatic of a GOP malaise.


The fact that he was nominated is symptomatic of a GOP malaise (and absurdist GOP-infighting/incompetence, and ALABAMA).

The fact that it was as close as it was, in Alabama, BEFORE he was outed as Chester the Molester is symptomatic of a GOP malaise.

The fact that he actually lost is a combination of GOP malaise, Moore being an unhinged theocratic nutwing, and the molestation charges.

But for the combination, this would have been another in a line of recent "moral victories" where the Democrats came unusually close in bye-elections in Republican-dominated constituencies.

As I noted above, the Democrats should be rooting for Bannon to take this as a personal challenge, and to re-double his efforts to get the wingiest, nuttiest Republicans throughout the land nominated, especially in place of sitting Republican senators.

Go to it, Stevie Boy.
   1258. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:11 PM (#5591921)
If Franken and Conyers had to go


They didn't. Franken being forced out was a travesty. The standard has never been, "Any allegation of sexual harassment warrants job termination." The troubled culture that has recently (and what will prove to be provisionally) come up with it is utterly untrustworthy, and should be ignored.

This culture is to serious issues what the early 70s were to fashion, and the new "standard" on sexual harassment is the leisure suit of serious thinking.
   1259. Srul Itza Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5591924)
with all due respect, you're a ####### idiot.


He's an idiot, yes.

Is there any evidence that he ever ######-ed?
   1260. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5591925)
They didn't. Franken being forced out was a travesty. The standard has never been, "Any allegation of sexual harrassment warrants job termination."


They were allegations that he admitted to, #######.
   1261. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5591926)
Wait, wait.... say that again - louder. I want to make sure we have nice, clear audio of it for ads next year.
“I will say, we have to get more senators and more congressmen that are Republicans elected in ’18. And then you’ll see a lot more of what we’re doing right now,” he said.

He also said this:
“We wish we would have gotten the seat. A lot of Republicans feel differently. They’re very happy with the way it turned out,” Trump told reporters at the White House. “But I would have — as the leader of the party, I would have liked to have had the seat. I want to endorse the people that are running.”

And you know what else I'd love to have a nice clear audio of? I'd love to hear JE and Clapper say out loud, "Donald Trump is the leader of my Republican Party".

Which is about as likely as Roy Moore winning a recount.
   1262. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:15 PM (#5591927)
This culture is to serious issues what the early 70s were to fashion, and the new "standard" on sexual harassment is the leisure suit of serious thinking.


Please tell me you don't have any daughters.

edit...or sons.
   1263. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:16 PM (#5591928)
As I noted above, the Democrats should be rooting for Bannon to take this as a personal challenge, and re-doubles his efforts to get the wingiest, nuttiest Republicans throughout the land.


If he's capable of actually finding someone worse than chemtrail Kelli in Arizona or Blackburn in Tennessee, I'd sure like to see him try.... and not even because it would be even better for Dem fortunes, but because worse would be absolutely fascinating.
   1264. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:17 PM (#5591930)
They were allegations that he admitted to, #######.


He did no such thing.
   1265. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5591931)
He did no such thing.


Yet he apologized. He has integrity. You don't.
   1266. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5591932)
Please tell me you don't have any daughters.

edit...or sons.


I have a son five years from college. The obvious worry there is that he has a couple, meets a girl who's had a couple, they do something willingly, somebody somewhere turns it into something else, and the college's kangaroo court kicks into gear against him.

Given the obvious dangers and threats, I'll have to have "the talk" with him before he goes away. Same thing with cops, although people will continue to try to pretend that's somehow a "black" issue only.
   1267. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:20 PM (#5591933)
Yet he apologized.


Concession accepted.
   1268. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:20 PM (#5591935)
It is not particularly fair to leave out the top five DMC Dancing Monkeys. Boy, that fight/debate should be interesting. Should I go first?

1. Zonk
2. BM
3. Andy
4. BDC
5. Shredder


Sam, I presume, is sui generis.

(My state of origin & attendant college football leanings presumably make me sooie generis.)
   1269. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:21 PM (#5591936)
Concession accepted.


Evidently you either don't see the nuance in the word "yet", or, more likely, don't have the integrity to acknowledge it.
   1270. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5591937)
Bivens, you obviously don't listen to the Spice Girl enough. The people knew about the allegations, weighed them appropriately, and decided in favor of Trump by duly electing his Orangeness. That issue is now in the past, and even bringing it up again is TDS.

Whereas the voters didn't have sufficient knowledge of Franken and Conyers, therefore it's only proper they be purged.

Note: I'm finding it far too easy to construct this kind of logic-free argument. :)
   1271. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:23 PM (#5591938)
   1272. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:23 PM (#5591939)
Evidently you either don't see the nuance in the word "yet", or, more likely, don't have the integrity to acknowledge it.


An apology isn't an admission, you dunce.
   1273. -- Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5591940)
Sam, I presume, is sui generis.


He's a whack job and awful citizen.
   1274. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5591942)
Ashtray money, bro.


I am glad my comment wasn't "too soon". Sometimes I take things too far in the name of humor.
   1275. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:26 PM (#5591945)
I know I always apologize for things I didn't do.

"Everyone, I am really sorry for that time I ... err ... that thing ... it happened ... and I am sorry, but I ... ummm .... totally ... probably didn't do it. So, yeah, sorry about ... something."
   1276. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:26 PM (#5591946)
Sam, I presume, is sui generis.


Outrageous!

He didn't even run and you're trying to hand him MY nomination!

DRAIN THE SWAMP!
   1277. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:27 PM (#5591947)
An apology isn't an admission, you dunce.


Yeah ok boss. Whatever you say. I guess you think that a real lawyer could make that argument with a straight face.
   1278. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:30 PM (#5591948)
I am glad my comment wasn't "too soon". Sometimes I take things too far in the name of humor.


Since Trump has personally chaperoned the market to record levels, that money has been recouped and then some! It was a no lose, amirite?
   1279. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:33 PM (#5591952)
The Trump administration official who could fire Mueller says there's no reason to do so

But on Wednesday, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein backed the Mueller probe in an exchange with the House Judiciary Committee’s Ranking Member Jerry Nadler (D-NJ) during an oversight hearing.

“If you were ordered today to fire Mr. Mueller, what would you do?” Nadler asked. “I would follow regulation,” Rosenstein replied. “If there were good cause, I would act. If there were no good cause, I would not.”

And when Nadler pushed further, asking if Rosenstein had seen any cause to terminate Mueller, Rosenstein said he had not.


I must admit I do love the fact that it is a Trump administration official, aided by Sessions recusing himself, that is in charge of this. And he has total faith in Mueller, as well he should.

But Rosenstein also told lawmakers during Wednesday’s hearing that no one so far has asked Rosenstein to fire Mueller. And Rosenstein even went so far as to defend Mueller himself, saying, “It would've been difficult to find anyone more qualified for this job.”
   1280. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:35 PM (#5591953)
Chuck Schumer reminds everyone this morning that the Democrats delayed the Obamacare vote until Scott Brown could be seated and his "41st vote" could be counted. What are the odds McConnell does the same with the tax cut?
I didn't see the quote, but that doesn't make sense. There is no "41st vote." It takes 60 votes to invoke cloture, not 41 votes to block it. Once Kennedy died, they didn't have the votes; they had to delay in order to seat Coakley. That Coakley ended up not winning doesn't mean they were delaying the vote for Brown.
   1281. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:36 PM (#5591954)
Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein


A Jew lawyer sighting (I presume)! Someone tell Kayla Whoore!
   1282. BDC Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5591956)
I do love the fact that it is a Trump administration official

Yes, it does tend to undermine the theory that the Deep State is using Mueller to overturn the election and instate Hillary as President.
   1283. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:40 PM (#5591957)
1217

It does gay people a disservice to wrongly define the word in this way.


Agreed. I did just wish to highlight that homophobic people, in general, tend to be asssholes.
   1284. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:41 PM (#5591959)
Oops. I was assured, repeatedly, that I was being a partisan hack and making much ado about nothing, but maybe not ... WH withdrawing Trump judicial pick who has never tried a case

President Trump nominated Talley to a lifetime Alabama federal judgeship, and he quickly became one of the president’s most controversial nominees. The American Bar Association deemed him “not qualified” and his lack of experience drew criticism from lawmakers.

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, on Tuesday urged Trump to “reconsider” Talley and another judicial pick.


Funny how that worked out I guess.
   1285. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:41 PM (#5591960)
Rosenstein did a good job today not allowing either side to paint him into any corners. They tried.

Ciccalini (sp?) and Maxine Lee on one side, and that doofus from Ohio, Jordan, on the other.

edit..Cicailline and Sheila Jackson Lee.
   1286. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:43 PM (#5591961)
I didn't see the quote, but that doesn't make sense. There is no "41st vote." It takes 60 votes to invoke cloture, not 41 votes to block it. Once Kennedy died, they didn't have the votes; they had to delay in order to seat Coakley. That Coakley ended up not winning doesn't mean they were delaying the vote for Brown.


That's not quite right either --

After Kennedy died, Paul Kirk was appointed to the seat (and I think he was appointed specifically because he said he wouldn't run in the special election). I know it took a few weeks - so I suppose that for a brief period, they were missing 60 votes -- but the vote was basically 'available' when they needed it.

The seat wasn't vacant from Kennedy's death until seating of the winner of the SE.
   1287. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:47 PM (#5591964)
the theory that the Deep State is using Mueller to overturn the election and instate Hillary as President.
Deep State? I thought that it was "despite thousands of hours wasted and many millions of dollars spent, the Democrats^ have been unable to show any collusion with Russia".

^ You know, those noted Democrats: Rosenstein and Mueller. The latter of which has indicted people for lying about something which is OBVIOUSLY not collusion with Russia.
   1288. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:48 PM (#5591965)
Deliciously catty post mortem on Omerosa's departure, on CNN, just now. Pretty funny.
   1289. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:48 PM (#5591966)
They were allegations that he admitted to, #######.

Yet he apologized.

In his resignation speech, Franken neither admitted to wrongdoing nor apologized to his accusers. He said he was resigning because he could no longer effectively represent his state.
   1290. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:52 PM (#5591970)
Deep State? I thought that it was "despite thousands of hours wasted and many millions of dollars spent, the Democrats^ have been unable to show any collusion with Russia".


More specifically the most popular theory here had it that it was people who were ENRAGED that the GOP candidate won the presidency, so they didn't HAVE to be Democrats.
   1291. Lassus Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5591972)
Sam, I presume, is sui generis.
He's a whack job and awful citizen.


Nah.
   1292. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5591973)
In his resignation speech, Franken neither admitted to wrongdoing nor apologized to his accusers. He said he was resigning because he could no longer effectively represent his state.


And then he whined about how unfair it all was that couldn't continue to remain senator despite the multiple groping allegations when other men have done worse than he has.
   1293. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:58 PM (#5591976)
Does the esteemed Lassus want to weigh in as to whether he agrees with me that "homophobia" does not include as a necessary element "fear" of homosexuals or homosexuality?

It seems that this is an issue of traditional concern to him so I imagine he has some informed and intelligent thoughts on the matter.

Lassus?
   1294. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 13, 2017 at 02:59 PM (#5591978)
That's not quite right either --

After Kennedy died, Paul Kirk was appointed to the seat (and I think he was appointed specifically because he said he wouldn't run in the special election). I know it took a few weeks - so I suppose that for a brief period, they were missing 60 votes -- but the vote was basically 'available' when they needed it.

The seat wasn't vacant from Kennedy's death until seating of the winner of the SE.


Wasn't David just mocking the other side for the "Franken not wanting to leave an open seat" thing just a couple of pages ago?
   1295. Lassus Posted: December 13, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5591979)
Same thing with cops, although people will continue to try to pretend that's somehow a "black" issue only.

No one pretends this, they simply acknowledge that it is generally a significantly worse issue for blacks than for whites.
   1296. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 13, 2017 at 03:08 PM (#5591984)
With respect to the Democrats re-taking the Senate in 2018...

Even if they pick up both vulnerable seats (AZ and NV), they're almost going to certainly lose at least one of IN or OH. Winning AZ and NV while losing either IN or OH leaves the Senate 50/50 with Pence as the tie-breaking vote. And the race in MN is going to be competitive, so the Democrats have yet another potentially vulnerable incumbent. Point being, it's not the 48% chance that the betting markets having following the upset in AL, IMHO.

The only way they do it is by another vacancy in a state where they can win. DJT is unlikely to nominate any sitting member of congress after AL (and GOP underperforming in a few special elections for safe seats). So that leaves death, resignation, or another unexpected retirement in a purplish state (not sure Corker in TN quite qualifies). And sadly that leaves Democrats probably needing McCain's cancer to create a second vacancy in AZ. It's a really crappy position to find ourselves in, because regardless of policy differences, McCain's a honorable man, a devoted public servant, and a hero for what he endured in Vietnam.

In May or June, I posited that it was basically a coin flip with whether the Democrats retook the House, but that the Senate had no chance at retaking the Senate. I'll update that to: Democrats have better than 50/50 chances of retaking the House, but it's more like 60/40 than 80/20 or even 70/30. I'm basing a lot on what I see happening in my district (currently held by GOP and on the list of possible races that the Democrats could win).

At the same time, I just don't see how they retake the Senate absent a death, resignation, or unexpected retirement. That is, there is nontrivial chance, but one that's most likely predicated on tragedy. That's a really crappy position to be in.


EDIT: And of course winning a second AZ seat in 2018 is no sure thing for the Democrats, even if the opportunity presents itself.
   1297. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: December 13, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5591988)
And then he whined about how unfair it all was that couldn't continue to remain senator
Franken's statement wasn't stellar, but kindly point out the whine:
I of all people am aware there is some irony in the fact I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party.
I interpret this as "they should go too" not that "I should stay". There is some irony in what he stated.
   1298. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 13, 2017 at 03:11 PM (#5591989)
Does the esteemed Lassus want to weigh in as to whether he agrees with me that "homophobia" does not include as a necessary element "fear" of homosexuals or homosexuality?

Not Lassus, but you're right. Modern usage is hostility toward homosexuals rather than fear of them.
   1299. Lassus Posted: December 13, 2017 at 03:14 PM (#5591992)
And then he whined about how unfair it all was that couldn't continue to remain senator
Franken's statement wasn't stellar, but kindly point out the whine:
I of all people am aware there is some irony in the fact I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party.


It's slightly whiny, but when all you care about is words and not actions, that's what you highlight. He stepped the fuck down, and of all the people that I've quoted above, he certainly is the one whining the least.
   1300. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 03:15 PM (#5591993)
1285

Ciccalini


'Ey! At's-a putty good, boss!
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