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Monday, December 11, 2017

OTP 11 December, 2017 - GOP strategist: Moore would have ‘date with a baseball bat’ if he tried dating teens where I grew up

“I grew up in Mississippi. Every father I knew, if he saw a guy like Roy Moore in his 30s trying to date his 16-year-old daughter, he would have had a date with a baseball bat,” Stevens, a former aide to Mitt Romney’s campaign, said on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.”

Stevens, who worked on former Alabama Gov. Bob Riley’s (R) primary campaign against Moore in 2006, said Moore has violated the “decency standard” of civil society in his previous alleged pursuit of teenage girls.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 08:53 AM | 2653 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bats, bats are afraid, politics

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   1801. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:19 PM (#5592824)
A particularly nonsensical reaction given that this all came to light because Mueller dropped Strzok from the investigation.

Ironically, this all came about because of the Clinton camp's complaints that FBI hostility cost Hillary the election. The Department of Justice Inspector General launched an investigation, examined some of the communications between members of the Hillary e-mail investigation team, and discovered two Hillary-loving participants, Strzok & Page, who also worked on Mueller's investigation, displaying anti-Trump animus while carrying on an affair. We'll see what else comes out of the IG probe, but so far it doesn't seem to have worked out how Hillary had hoped.
   1802. Hot Wheeling American in his sleazy salon Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:27 PM (#5592830)
so far it doesn't seem to have worked out how Hillary had hoped

Does The Yankee Clapper think this is all building to impeaching Hillary?? That would show her!
   1803. PepTech, Bane of Epistemological Foundations Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:30 PM (#5592833)
the Supreme Court has expressly ruled that the answer to your question is no, they don't have to let him go.
That's what I thought, but I've been labeled deranged before...
   1804. Larvell B Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:33 PM (#5592835)
Does The Yankee Clapper think this is all building to impeaching Hillary?? That would show her!


No, Hillary was hoping that FBI bias plus Russian collusion plus the Kenyan precedent would put her in the White House.
   1805. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5592836)
Can someone decipher #1804 into something resembling a non-deranged thought?
   1806. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:39 PM (#5592837)

Can someone decipher #1804 into something resembling a non-deranged thought?
Absolutely not. Sean Hannity farts more coherent arguments than that.
   1807. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:41 PM (#5592840)
The only translation that makes sense is non verbal. A Monkey Dance!
   1808. DavidFoss Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:45 PM (#5592842)
Can someone decipher #1804 into something resembling a non-deranged thought?

Most of the hits for 'Kenyan Precedent' point to their recently annulled Presidential Election due to claims of election rigging. This amuses me.

The re-vote didn't change the result, though. Kenyatta still beat Odinga.
   1809. Larvell B Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5592843)
OK, Hillary never discussed the Kenyan precedent. Never happened.

It appears the Pretend in PretendVille has reached dangerous levels today.
   1810. PepTech, Bane of Epistemological Foundations Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5592845)
I believe we had a working hypothesis that Hillary Rodham ran over Ray's dog back during his formative years, explaining his animus both towards HRC and pets in general. Is there any reason we know of why HDS has affected SBB so?

Edit:
It appears the Pretend in PretendVille has reached dangerous levels today.
Well, there's still some semblance of self-awareness, so maybe not all is lost. Keep hope alive!
   1811. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:53 PM (#5592849)
Most of the hits for 'Kenyan Precedent' point to their recently annulled Presidential Election due to claims of election rigging. This amuses me.


Wait.

Has Trump seriously convinced his Trumpkins that the real fear remains Hillary could still be President?

Seriously?

   1812. BrianBrianson Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5592852)
They live to oppose the Clinton presidency. If she's never president, their lives will be meaningless. So of course they believe it'll come to pass.
   1813. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:56 PM (#5592853)
Ok I'm not a fan of the constant handle changes but someone has to claim "The Kenyan Precedent" right?
   1814. Jack Keefe Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:56 PM (#5592854)
Can someone decipher #1804 into something resembling a non-deranged thought?

Let me try Al.

Hillary was hoping that FBI bias plus Russian collusion plus the Kenyan precedent would put her in the White House

Here is the thing Al Putain really wanted Hilary to be Pres. but only after some Delay so he could get a Mooslim ban and Jehosophat as the Capital of Isreal. Now there is president for a president becoming president if he or shall we say she is a Furrier. We know this because Barack Obrella who is as black as Jumbo Kenyatta became Precedent even though born in Deepest Africa Al.

Although Ozzie Guillen told me never say Black say Rhythmically Gifted American.

Now all the Efby Eye has to do is say Donald Rump ha ha we caught you in a Golden Shower of Russian Yurin and bingo the Election is Null and Void Al and we switch to the other Party. Even Mike Penis is no longer Legible Al. Of course Hilary was not born in Kenya. But where was she born Illinoise and claims to be a Cub Fan Al. But she is not from the North Side she is some sort of Suburban and in my books Al Suburbans and South Siders should be Sox Fans like all good folk and so she is essentially a Furrier. She has no Jus Solace nor Mets Rhea. She might as well be a Wisconsonian Citizen and that is where the President comes in.

Half I made myself clear.
   1815. PepTech, Bane of Epistemological Foundations Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:58 PM (#5592856)
Has Trump seriously convinced his Trumpkins that the real fear remains Hillary could still be President?
No, just Sugar Baby, dutifully seeking to protect OTP lurkers; the digital equivalent of a Japanese soldier still holed up in a cave in New Guinea.
   1816. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:58 PM (#5592857)
Can someone decipher #1804 into something resembling a non-deranged thought?


Hmmm...

 1804. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: December 14, 2017 at 04:33 PM (#5592835)
[ Ignored Comment ]


lol
   1817. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:01 PM (#5592862)
[1815] It's not just Sugar Bear. Sean Hannity is all over it. Hillary fear mongering has been a quite successful business model for Fox News in general even.
   1818. Larvell B Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:01 PM (#5592863)
Wait.

Has Trump seriously convinced his Trumpkins that the real fear remains Hillary could still be President?

Seriously?


No, there is no chance she ever will be. Which makes her delusions about and study of The Kenyan Precedent all the more comical. (And yes, they really did happen and really were reported on and really were commented upon in OTP in real time. No shock that the TDS brigade didn't notice; after all, Donald Trump might have tweeted something inconsistent with what Rex Tillerson's deputy said that day -- and we can't miss out on that!!)
   1819. Count Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:03 PM (#5592867)
I believe it's a reference to this interview (excerpted below) in which Clinton references an election being overthrown in Kenya and notes that we do not have a mechanism to do the same thing here.


Q: I want to get back to the question, would you completely rule out questioning the legitimacy of this election if we learn that the Russian interference in the election is even deeper than we know now?

A: No. I would not. I would say —

Q: You're not going to rule it out.

A: No, I wouldn't rule it out.

Q:So what are the means, like, this is totally unprecedented in every way —

A: It is.

Q: What would be the means to challenge it, if you thought it should be challenged?

A: Basically I don't believe there are. There are scholars, academics, who have arguments that it would be, but I don't think they're on strong ground. But people are making those arguments. I just don't think we have a mechanism. You know, the Kenya election was just overturned and really what's interesting about that — and I hope somebody writes about it, Terry — the Kenyan election was also a project of Cambridge Analytica, the data company owned by the Mercer family that was instrumental in the Brexit vote.

There's now an investigation going on in the U.K., because of the use of data and the weaponization of information. They were involved in the Trump campaign after he got the nomination, and I think that part of what happened is Mercer said to Trump, "We'll help you, but you have to take Bannon as your campaign chief. You've got to take Kellyanne Conway and these other people who are basically Mercer protégés."

And so we know that there was this connection. So what happened in Kenya, which I'm only beginning to delve into, is that the Supreme Court there said there are so many really unanswered and problematic questions, we're going to throw the election out and redo it. We have no such provision in our country. And usually we don't need it.

Now, I do believe we should abolish the Electoral College, because I was sitting listening to a report on the French election and the French political analyst said, "You know in our country the person with the most votes wins, unlike in yours." And I think that's an anachronism. I've said that since 2000.

   1820. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5592871)
Following up on yesterday's cloture vote, the Senate today confirmed the nomination of James Ho to the 5th Circuit, on a 53-43 vote. Only 3 Democrats voted for the first Asian-American on the 5th Circuit: Donnelly, Heitkamp & McCaskill, all of whom are facing potentially difficult 2018 elections.
   1821. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:09 PM (#5592874)
Following up on yesterday's cloture vote, the Senate today confirmed the nomination of James Ho to the 5th Circuit, on a 53-43 vote. Only 3 Democrats voted for the first Asian-American on the 5th Circuit

So clearly the other 43 Democrats all hate Asian-Americans. Does that make them despicable?
   1822. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5592875)
1810...that would only make sense if Ray was a weirdo. Why blame the dog for getting run over? That's something Trump would do.

"I like dogs that DON'T get run over."


Maybe you're on to something.
   1823. PepTech, Bane of Epistemological Foundations Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5592876)
The Kenyan Precedent
Yes, SBB, readers of this space are able to recall this is very much not made up. HRC saying goofy things does not make Trump palatable. CNN posting that story about TRUMP HAS NO DOG!!! is goofy; it doesn't excuse Trump's behavior. Andy and Sam say goofy #### sometimes; that doesn't mean Flynn is innocent of Russian shenanigans. These points aren't even debatable ;)

-------------

Joe, I believe the theory went that the memory was repressed; Ray loved that dog and rather than replace him, he built himself a Wall (yep, just like Pink!). BTF is what he used to fill the empty spaces where they used to walk.
   1824. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5592877)
Ironically, this all came about because of the Clinton camp's complaints that FBI hostility cost Hillary the election. The Department of Justice Inspector General launched an investigation, examined some of the communications between members of the Hillary e-mail investigation team, and discovered two Hillary-loving participants, Strzok & Page, who also worked on Mueller's investigation, displaying anti-Trump animus while carrying on an affair. We'll see what else comes out of the IG probe, but so far it doesn't seem to have worked out how Hillary had hoped.


OMG it is.

It is EXACTLY that Trump has convinced his Trumpkins to still fear Hillary. But with the neat little touch that the Vast Clinton Conspiracy is so well-honed, fine-tuned and evolved that it can now operate as like little hybrid terrorist/biological cells, operating independently, biologically reproducing, but sharing some sort of hive mind capable of working towards a unifying, ethereal goal that only Hillary and people that took the red pill can see.

I honestly didn't get it before, but I think I get it now....

It's like some weird sort of post modern political science fiction.

Everybody colluded with anybody to frame somebody and nobody has proven otherwise.

Hence, Trump is the victim of a witch hunt and Hillary must be guilty.

   1825. BDC Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:12 PM (#5592878)
Trump has convinced his Trumpkins to still fear Hillary

I've said it before, but every Big Brother needs an Emmanuel Goldstein.
   1826. BrianBrianson Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5592891)
I believe it's a reference to this interview (excerpted below) in which Clinton references an election being overthrown in Kenya and notes that we do not have a mechanism to do the same thing here.


Only Trumpkins still care what she has to say, and so she's gotta cater to that base so they'll buy her next book for burning.
   1827. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:24 PM (#5592893)
Wait.

Has Trump seriously convinced his Trumpkins that the real fear remains Hillary could still be President?

Seriously?


No, there is no chance she ever will be. Which makes her delusions about and study of The Kenyan Precedent all the more comical. (And yes, they really did happen and really were reported on and really were commented upon in OTP in real time. No shock that the TDS brigade didn't notice; after all, Donald Trump might have tweeted something inconsistent with what Rex Tillerson's deputy said that day -- and we can't miss out on that!!)


When SBB comes down off his meth high and sees that somebody hacked his account to make him post something even stupider than the #1804 that shall live in infamy, he's gonna complain to Jim and one of you is going to be in BIG trouble.
   1828. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:31 PM (#5592904)
When SBB comes down off his meth high and sees that somebody hacked his account to make him post something even stupider than the #1804 that shall live in infamy, he's gonna complain to Jim and one of you is going to be in BIG trouble.

I know nothing.
   1829. PepTech, Bane of Epistemological Foundations Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:37 PM (#5592908)
I know nothing
Well, he *is* a waste of space... ;)
   1830. DavidFoss Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:38 PM (#5592909)
I believe it's a reference to this interview (excerpted below) in which Clinton references an election being overthrown in Kenya

Wow. I was actually joking when I posted the results of my google search. I thought it was a Birther reference with a typo.
   1831. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:38 PM (#5592910)
I'm so happy to see more and more citizens coming around to the Council's view on SBB.
   1832. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:40 PM (#5592911)
The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:38 PM (#5592910)

I'm so happy to see more and more citizens coming around to the Council's view on SBB.


I blame the one true Morty.
   1833. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:42 PM (#5592914)
I blame the one true Morty


The Council acknowledges your theory, but deducts points for going with the secondary reference and not the origination.
   1834. BurlyBuehrle Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:52 PM (#5592915)
That Yankee Clapper would discuss judicial appointments while pretending that competence is the crucial criterion for appointment displays astonishing temerity.
   1835. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 05:56 PM (#5592917)
Fortunately, existing absolute middle on the central finite curve, I don't answer to councils.

It's why my political sextant score came out so symmetrical.
   1836. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:01 PM (#5592920)
Does that make them despicable?

I believe "politically craven opportunists" may be the term you're looking for.
   1837. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:01 PM (#5592921)
In the end you’ll all answer to the Council.
   1838. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:04 PM (#5592922)
That Yankee Clapper would discuss judicial appointments while pretending that competence is the crucial criterion for appointment displays astonishing temerity.


or that the dems should have voted for the Ho guy because of affirmative action or some ####.
   1839. Lassus Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:11 PM (#5592924)
In the end you’ll all answer to the Council.

Not John Byrne, who laughs in your face.
   1840. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:12 PM (#5592925)
Clapper, #1820:
Following up on yesterday's cloture vote, the Senate today confirmed the nomination of James Ho to the 5th Circuit, on a 53-43 vote. Only 3 Democrats voted for the first Asian-American on the 5th Circuit: Donnelly, Heitkamp & McCaskill, all of whom are facing potentially difficult 2018 elections.


I shudder to think of the devastating attack ads that are certainly coming against the 40 openly racist Democratic Senators who failed to vote to confirm the the first Asian-American on the 5th Circuit:
[scary music and photo-negative image] "Call Senator Nelson and ask him why he refused to vote for cloture so that a vote to consider the first Asian-American nominee for the 5th Circuit could proceed as scheduled?"
But while we await that electoral apocalypse... still no thoughts about this week's march to judicial glory and the two nominees killed by Ch_ck Gr_assl_y, Clap? A blast from the barely past:
Nov. 13:
It's also worth noting that it's rather difficult to come up with even a hypothetical case in which Talley would need to recuse from a case due to his wife's employment that wouldn't also be affected by his own role at the Justice Department. This is a non-issue, with a biased media making something out of nothing, most likely after being spoon fed the "info" by one of the special interest organizations opposed to Talley's confirmation.
Well, now it's literally impossible to imagine Brett Talley needing to recuse from a federal case.

We may assume that Senator Grassley only stuffed Talley down the garbage chute because Grassley is NOT facing potentially difficult 2018 elections. Either that or the biased media got to him, too.


BDC, #1825:
I've said it before, but every Big Brother needs an Emmanuel Goldstein.


Isn't he the WaPo reporter who was willing to pay good hard cash for sex lies about Roy Moore?
   1841. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:16 PM (#5592926)
Not John Byrne, who laughs in your face


The Council is confused as to why they would concern themselves with the opinions of Booster Cogburn.
   1842. dlf Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:18 PM (#5592927)
I am, more often than I'd like to admit, ignorant of a lot of historical precedent. I know that many Presidents and their off-the-record spokespeople spend a lot of energy blaming their predecessors for problems. Obama certainly did towards Bush the Younger, and Bush towards boy Clinton and on backwards in time. But I can't recall any President still running, a year later, against his defeated opponent who never held office. I don't remember Obama criticizing McCain, Bush mocking Kerry, Clinton dredging up Dole ... back to Reagan and Mondale, I just don't recall any obsession about the defeated opponent long after the race. Am I forgetting something or is this new?
   1843. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:26 PM (#5592929)
I am, more often than I'd like to admit, ignorant of a lot of historical precedent. I know that many Presidents and their off-the-record spokespeople spend a lot of energy blaming their predecessors for problems. Obama certainly did towards Bush the Younger, and Bush towards boy Clinton and on backwards in time. But I can't recall any President still running, a year later, against his defeated opponent who never held office. I don't remember Obama criticizing McCain, Bush mocking Kerry, Clinton dredging up Dole ... back to Reagan and Mondale, I just don't recall any obsession about the defeated opponent long after the race. Am I forgetting something or is this new?


As time goes on and the alligator jaws of approve/disapprove swing wider and wider - the one unifying principle of Trump's bare-bones base.... and everybody knows the man knows how to play to his base.
   1844. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:28 PM (#5592931)
OMG it is.

It is EXACTLY that Trump has convinced his Trumpkins to still fear Hillary. But with the neat little touch that the Vast Clinton Conspiracy is so well-honed, fine-tuned and evolved that it can now operate as like little hybrid terrorist/biological cells, operating independently, biologically reproducing, but sharing some sort of hive mind capable of working towards a unifying, ethereal goal that only Hillary and people that took the red pill can see.

I honestly didn't get it before, but I think I get it now....


Lol.

Nobody fears a Hillary presidency.

Hillary didn't exactly go quietly into the night. She went on a Defeat Tour coming up with every excuse in the book as to why she lost the election. Included in that - before she had even lost in fact - was her whining about Russian Interference and "collusion." The TDSers took up that mantle. And so here we are, with investigations going full bore. And lo and behold we're learning some interesting things about what Hillary's campaign did and about her server investigation and we have more to learn about the Russian Interference investigation. Some of that may not be favorable to Hillary or to the TDSers' version of events but time will tell.

   1845. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:33 PM (#5592933)
1844...lol Keep Hope Alive, Dancing Monkey #4. "Time will tell."

Yes it will.
   1846. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:38 PM (#5592938)
The deeper and longer the Mueller investigation goes on, the worse it gets... for the Mueller investigation!! O. Henry!
   1847. Hot Wheeling American in his sleazy salon Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:41 PM (#5592939)
Any members of Team Shameless want to sign on to Bill Mitchell's latest?
I believe the GOP knows Democrats cheated in AL and may have even helped them. It's a damned miracle Trump is getting so much done surrounded by such incompetence and corruption.
   1848. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:42 PM (#5592940)
Come for the popcorn LCJ headline, stay for an interesting discussion...

Can The GOP Stop Running Toxic Candidates?
   1849. Hot Wheeling American in his sleazy salon Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:42 PM (#5592942)
peterschorschfl:
On Fox's 'Hannity,' @AGPamBondi calls Robert Mueller 'corrupt' probe 'worse than Watergate' http://bit.ly/2j5iVtg via @MitchEPerry #FlaPol

Anyone recall what Pam Bondi is known for doing?
   1850. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:45 PM (#5592943)
Anyone recall what Pam Bondi is known for doing?


"Begged" for campaign contributions not so long ago (and would do anything for them)?
   1851. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:47 PM (#5592944)
dlf, #1842:
But I can't recall any President still running, a year later, against his defeated opponent who never held office. I don't remember Obama criticizing McCain, Bush mocking Kerry, Clinton dredging up Dole ... back to Reagan and Mondale, I just don't recall any obsession about the defeated opponent long after the race. Am I forgetting something or is this new?


You can scroll back through Nixon/McGovern-Humphrey, Johnson/Goldwater, Kennedy/Nixon, Eisenhower/Stevenson, Truman/Dewey and on back to McKinley/Bryan. That covers the last century-plus.

It seems that I must be forgetting a previous instance, because so little in American politics is ever sui generis. But the consuming emphasis on re-defeating Hillary does seem like a new idea.

Besides being a diversionary countertactic, it's also psychologically explicable. Donald Trump is not the only one filling the reality void by clinging harder and harder onto how it felt on November 8th and 9th, 2016.
   1852. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 06:55 PM (#5592946)
Lol.

Nobody fears a Hillary presidency.

Hillary didn't exactly go quietly into the night. She went on a Defeat Tour coming up with every excuse in the book as to why she lost the election. Included in that - before she had even lost in fact - was her whining about Russian Interference and "collusion." The TDSers took up that mantle. And so here we are, with investigations going full bore. And lo and behold we're learning some interesting things about what Hillary's campaign did and about her server investigation and we have more to learn about the Russian Interference investigation. Some of that may not be favorable to Hillary or to the TDSers' version of events but time will tell.


It's like if the Trumpkins work enough description, detail, and mention of Hillary into the description of why they don't fear Hillary but it's still Hillary's fault, it will prove they don't fear Hillary (and presumably, quietly, acting as some kind of inverse Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! amulet).

But thank you all.

One of the more illuminating little segues in the long, storied history of the OTP.

It feels a little like Newton sitting under the Trump-brand Apple tree.
   1853. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:00 PM (#5592947)
Besides being a diversionary countertactic, it's also psychologically explicable. Donald Trump is not the only one filling the reality void by clinging harder and harder onto how it felt on November 8th and 9th, 2016.


IOW - if it were a pill, we're well past the point where the ad that sold it says you should consult your doctor.
   1854. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:00 PM (#5592948)
Besides being a diversionary countertactic, it's also psychologically explicable. Donald Trump is not the only one filling the reality void by clinging harder and harder onto how it felt on November 8th and 9th, 2016.


Don't forget that Trump is a "public servant." As such he should be fawned over because he's a politician and it's so virtuous of them to go into public service. We owe him our gratitude.
   1855. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:02 PM (#5592950)
Anyone recall what Pam Bondi is known for doing?
Of course. Taking a bribe from Trump to drop an investigation of his fake university. (With money illegally taken from the Trump Foundation.)
   1856. Larvell B Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:03 PM (#5592951)
Only Trumpkins still care what she has to say, and so she's gotta cater to that base so they'll buy her next book for burning.


Well, obviously the Shill for Hill brigade doesn't, inasmuch as her continued delusions make them look ridiculous for shilling for her in the first instance.

   1857. BDC Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:09 PM (#5592953)
the consuming emphasis on re-defeating Hillary does seem like a new idea

"Jimmy Carter and the failed policies of the past" seemed like a winning catchphrase for the GOP right into the Bush I years. But it wasn't as if anybody actually thought that Carter might re-materialize. To that extent, it was just the typical "don't want to go back to that era" that in fact helped the Democrats re: Herbert Hoover for several decades. It does seem different today, in the sense that people are actually still apprehensive about waking up tomorrow to find Hillary taking office.
   1858. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:11 PM (#5592954)
[1718] I don't take Lindsey Graham's comments seriously (or literally or whatever). It's just like when Donald Trump said he'd completely destroy North Korea. It's all just posturing to try to look tough.


Daniel Drezner writing in the WaPo today:


Take North Korea. My position for most of this year has been that for all the Trump administration’s bluster on the DPRK, the lack of any decent military option rendered much of the war talk to be overblown wishcasting. As I wrote in September: “The current status quo is not great. Changing the status quo is not likely to make the situation any better and very likely to make things worse.”

So I was not troubled too much by Evan Osnos’s November warning that “members of America’s political class — the ‘blob’ of government officials, donors, and media types — have started to talk about war with Pyongyang as an increasingly likely prospect.” Similarly, Kori Schake’s warning from earlier this month that “the Trump White House talking about North Korea sounds eerily and increasingly like the George W. Bush administration in the run-up to the Iraq War” did not faze me too much.

I have spent the past week talking to people who are closely connected to the East Asia folks within this administration, however, and now I am seriously fazed. The message I heard was clear. Trump officials working on North Korea have developed the odd consensus that Pyongyang will use its nuclear arsenal to attempt a forcible reunification with South Korea. And if that is the goal, then time is running out for military options that would stop that from happening. In other words, I heard the exact same things as Osnos and Schake. The Trump national security team seems convinced that North Korea cannot be deterred, and war is the inevitable outcome.


Drezner

Osnos

Schake
   1859. Larvell B Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:14 PM (#5592957)
But it wasn't as if anybody actually thought that Carter might re-materialize.


??

Clinton *has* re-materialized. And during that return, she's proven to be delusional. The NPR interview is nuts.

   1860. Chicago Joe Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:20 PM (#5592959)
Anyone recall what Pam Bondi is known for doing?


Didn't she F Scott Fitzgerald?
   1861. Greg K Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:23 PM (#5592960)
The message I heard was clear. Trump officials working on North Korea have developed the odd consensus that Pyongyang will use its nuclear arsenal to attempt a forcible reunification with South Korea.

That does seem like an odd consensus. I'm not sure I've come across that before as a presumed purpose of North Korea's nuclear weapons program.
   1862. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:31 PM (#5592962)
I just don't recall any obsession about the defeated opponent long after the race. Am I forgetting something or is this new?

Democrats ran against Herbert Hoover for about 40 years. And many on the left maintained a Nixon-hate from the late 1940s until his death in 1994. Some, such as our own Andy, still seethe a bit when he's mentioned.

However, suggesting that those discussing Hillary here fear her power or are obsessed with her is incorrect - it's mostly mocking her for being such a poor candidate and refusing to accept the results of the election.
   1863. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:31 PM (#5592963)
Inner circle GOP / Trumpkins look for a reason to start wars and work backwards. Every time. They don’t require a reasonable case for why the Norks would think nuking Seoul would be a good idea. They need any random half assed theory that MIGHT result in NK going hostile and then they’re full into 1% doctrine and “preemptive war.”

“Preemptive NUCLEAR war.”

It’s the crowd that felt we failed in Iraq because we wouldn’t murder enough people cause liberals had made the military soft. It’s the “more rubble less trouble crowd. Just reading this gives Jason a boner.
   1864. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:39 PM (#5592967)
I just don't recall any obsession about the defeated opponent long after the race. Am I forgetting something or is this new?

Democrats ran against Herbert Hoover for about 40 years. And many on the left maintained a Nixon-hate from the late 1940s until his death in 1994. Some, such as our own Andy, still seethe a bit when he's mentioned.


You're kind of missing a key distinction critical to the point -- between PRESIDENT Herbert Hoover, PRESIDENT Richard Nixon and CITIZEN Hillary Clinton.
   1865. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:42 PM (#5592968)
I just don't recall any obsession about the defeated opponent long after the race. Am I forgetting something or is this new?

Democrats ran against Herbert Hoover for about 40 years. And many on the left maintained a Nixon-hate from the late 1940s until his death in 1994.

Well, there was one slight factor that distinguished Hoover and Nixon from Hillary, and I'm not referring to their respective genders. Maybe if we give you a week you might be able to remember what it was.

EDIT: Curses to zonk along with a coke. That'll learn me to meander over to other threads.
   1866. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:43 PM (#5592969)

You're kind of missing a key distinction critical to the point -- between PRESIDENT Herbert Hoover, PRESIDENT Richard Nixon and CITIZEN Hillary Clinton.


Except that CITIZEN Hillary Clinton may well have played a role in getting the the Russia "collusion" investigation of her political opponent going, and in engaging in some dealings with Russia herself that Influenced Our Election (through intermediaries but that doesn't actually fool anyone!), and her lackeys are very much taking up the first mantle, and she's also been hocking a book, so in these senses she is still very much relevant.

But mainly she's relevant only incidentally, in that the TDSers want what's good for the goose (Trump) but apparently not what's good for the gander (Hillary). Investigate Trump up the wazoo but hey why do you want to talk about what Hillary did?!?! In this sense the main point is that their bad arguments and intellectual dishonesties are exposed.
   1867. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:54 PM (#5592974)
CITIZEN Hillary Clinton

The recently-defeated candidate who goes around lamenting that our electoral nullification process isn't as good as Kenya's? Yeah, that's the one.
   1868. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 07:58 PM (#5592977)
Investigate Trump up the wazoo but hey why do you want to talk about what Hillary did?!?!


Because he's President.

She's not.

Is this really so difficult?

To people who talk this stuff for reasons other than scoreboard rooting, that actually does matter. A lot. Regardless of who the he (or she) happen to be following the completion of any given election cycle.
   1869. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:00 PM (#5592979)
Political sextant finally working again:

Your top ideologies are:
Anarcho-capitalism 100%
Agorism 80%
Minarchism 75%


Your worst ideologies are:
Deep ecology -100%
Compassionate conservatism -83%
Strasserism -83%
   1870. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:03 PM (#5592980)
Investigate Trump up the wazoo but hey why do you want to talk about what Hillary did?!?!

Because he's President.

She's not.

Is this really so difficult?


You don't want to find out if Russia interfered with our election through the Hillary and Trump campaigns? Odd.

   1871. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:04 PM (#5592983)
The recently-defeated candidate who goes around lamenting that our electoral nullification process isn't as good as Kenya's? Yeah, that's the one.


It's like you're parodying yourself.

If it's supposed to get a chuckle in a sort of self-effacing way, my compliments - it's a hard gag to pull off so well.
   1872. Count Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:07 PM (#5592985)
If you're calling for the Steele dossier to be investigated then absolutely, go for it! See what can be substantiated and whether it was a Russian influence campaign.
   1873. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:09 PM (#5592986)
Your top ideologies are:
Trickle-down Buddhism 91%
Free soil nihilism 83%
Connecticut for Lieberman party 78%

Your worst ideologies are:
Juggalonomics -96%
American unexceptionalism -80%
Neo-Clintonian ethnic cleansing -79%
   1874. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:11 PM (#5592987)
   1875. Hot Wheeling American in his sleazy salon Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:14 PM (#5592988)
@donaldjtrumpjr:
I would pay good money to see all those people complaining about Obama’s FCC chairman voting to repeal #NetNeutality actually explain it in detail. I’d also bet most hadn’t heard of it before this week. #outrage

The Republican Party is in great hands with this smart family. Very jealous of The Yankee Clapper. That dude’s got it made, speaking truth to power those not in power.
   1876. jmp Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:15 PM (#5592989)
Your top ideologies are:
Anarcho-capitalism 90%
Bernsteinism 88%
Free-market environmentalism 75%

Your worst ideologies are:
Deep ecology -50%
Pancasila -50%
civic nationalism -50%
Strasserism -100%
   1877. Larvell B Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:17 PM (#5592990)
Because he's President.

She's not.

Is this really so difficult?


Yeah, it's ridiculous actually.

We can talk about no one in American or global life other than the US president!!, said no non-TDS quarantine ward patient ever.
   1878. Hot Wheeling American in his sleazy salon Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:18 PM (#5592991)
@gabrielsherman:
Trump spoke with Murdoch ahead of Disney deal to make sure Murdoch wasn’t selling Fox News, person briefed on the call said

Normal President stuff
   1879. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:21 PM (#5592992)
You don't want to find out if Russia interfered with our election through the Hillary and Trump campaigns? Odd.


Oh, we're back to "if", are we?

   1880. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:30 PM (#5592994)
If David is hunnerd percent against deep ecology I’m signing up for it.

Note to self: google deep ecology
   1881. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:32 PM (#5592995)
We can talk about no one in American or global life other than the US president!!, said no non-TDS quarantine ward patient ever.


Just today, I think I've had posts on the tax bill, net neutrality, Paul Ryan potentially retiring, and a gaggle of Senate races up in 2018.

And I'm the single-minded one?

Oh, honey....
   1882. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:38 PM (#5592998)
Your top ideologies are:
Trickle-down Buddhism 91%
Free soil nihilism 83%
Connecticut for Lieberman party 78%

Your worst ideologies are:
Juggalonomics -96%
American unexceptionalism -80%
Neo-Clintonian ethnic cleansing -79%


Just to make sure no one skims over it... because I think it's too nicely done to be missed.
   1883. Chicago Joe Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:50 PM (#5593001)
Top ideologies:
Social Democracy 92%
Third Way 88% (blech)
Classical Marxism 75%
Feminist Marxism 75% (didn't know there was a difference between the two)

Worst ideologies:
Paleoconservatism -40%
Three Principles of the People -33%
Odalism (wtf?) -17%
Clerical Fascism -17%

Sounds about right-I'm basically the diametric opposite of TGF/SBB.

   1884. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:57 PM (#5593003)
Wow. I'm pretty sure googling Odalism has put me on even more watchlists.
   1885. zenbitz Posted: December 14, 2017 at 08:57 PM (#5593004)
Anarcho-communism 64%
Anarcha-feminism 75%
Queer anarchism 80%

Deep ecology -83%
Paleoconservatism -60%
Three Principles of the People -67%

Man I just saw 1873 so now I feel stupid. This may shock you all but I think that quiz lacked a little something in the way of nuance.

If David is hunnerd percent against deep ecology I’m signing up for it.


Actually this is the good part of David's ideology.
   1886. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:00 PM (#5593005)
Did google the Deep Ecology thing and, yeah, I could totally roll with that. David's stupid and dumb.
   1887. Chicago Joe Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:01 PM (#5593006)
Wow. I'm pretty sure googling Odalism has put me on even more watchlists.


Pretty pleasant how going to the link supplied by Political Sextant causes one's browser to a) #### a brick and b) start cascading ads.
   1888. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:02 PM (#5593007)
Pretty sure "trickle down Buddhism" is what got Harvey Weinstein in so much trouble.
   1889. Lassus Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:03 PM (#5593008)
I wonder if any of the conservatives here will log on while their children and loved ones burn to blame Hillary.
   1890. Chicago Joe Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:04 PM (#5593009)
Did google the Deep Ecology thing and, yeah, I could totally roll with that. David's stupid and dumb.


Meh. I like steak and electricity.
   1891. BDC Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:04 PM (#5593010)
Clinton *has* re-materialized

The concern on one side about somebody who will be President for another three years, compared to the concern on the other about somebody whose political career is over, is ever so slightly unbalanced :)
   1892. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:05 PM (#5593011)
Pretty pleasant how going to the link supplied by Political Sextant causes one's browser to a) #### a brick and b) start cascading ads.


I can only assume that my recent search history combined with downloading paperwork and process for getting a concealed carry permit has the local NSA offices scanning my social network activity hard.
   1893. Chicago Joe Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:06 PM (#5593012)
I wonder if any of the conservatives here will log on while their children and loved ones burn to blame Hillary.


Nobody's going to obey that order.
   1894. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:16 PM (#5593014)
Meh. I like steak and electricity.


Steak requires 1) the willingness to kill and butcher a cow, and 2) fire.

Electricity requires the will to make some schmuck bicycle for you on your coconut machine.
   1895. Chicago Joe Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:18 PM (#5593015)
Steak requires 1) the willingness to kill and butcher a cow, and 2) fire.


Tough to keep a cow fed on a 25 by 125 lot.
   1896. bunyon Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:26 PM (#5593016)
But I can't recall any President still running, a year later, against his defeated opponent who never held office. I don't remember Obama criticizing McCain, Bush mocking Kerry, Clinton dredging up Dole ... back to Reagan and Mondale, I just don't recall any obsession about the defeated opponent long after the race. Am I forgetting something or is this new?


You can scroll back through Nixon/McGovern-Humphrey, Johnson/Goldwater, Kennedy/Nixon, Eisenhower/Stevenson, Truman/Dewey and on back to McKinley/Bryan. That covers the last century-plus.

It seems that I must be forgetting a previous instance, because so little in American politics is ever sui generis. But the consuming emphasis on re-defeating Hillary does seem like a new idea.


The hostility toward Jackson from John Quincy Adams was intense (and mutual) if not well publicized (due to the times). And, well...okay, I can see why Trumpkins would be worried if they're using that analogy.
   1897. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:29 PM (#5593017)
Michael Gerson lays it on the line, even if nobody in his party seems to be listening:

To save the GOP, Republicans have to lose

I find myself wandering in an unfamiliar place. As a pro-life conservative, I am honestly happy — no, positively elated — that pro-choice Democrat Doug Jones won Alabama’s U.S. Senate election.

It is an odd position for me, and a complicated one. This change may impose costs to causes I care about. And Democrats did not make my shift of sentiments any easier. A pro-life Democrat (there used to be herds of such unicorns before they were hunted to near-extinction) would have won the Alabama race going away and left me entirely unconflicted.

But even so, it was not a close decision. In reality, the chance that the flip of this seat would somehow determine the fate of Roe v. Wade is vanishingly small. And political leadership does not consist entirely of checking policy boxes. What needs to be considered is the net effect on the country and the cause. And the Alabama election was like looking into the abyss. Roy Mooreism was distilled Trumpism, flavored with some self-righteous moralism. It was all there: the aggressive ignorance, the racial divisiveness, the disdain for governing, the contempt for truth, the accusations of sexual predation, the (just remarkable) trashing of America in favor of Vladimir Putin, the conspiracy theories, the sheer, destabilizing craziness of the average day.

President Trump and his admirers are not just putting forth an agenda; they are littering the civic arena with deception and cruelty. They are discrediting even the good causes they claim to care about. They are condemning the country to durable social division. In Trump’s GOP, loyalty requires corruption. So loyalty itself must be reconceived.

What would weaken the grip of Trump on the GOP? Obviously not moral considerations. The president has crossed line after line of decency and ethics with only scattered Republican bleats of protest. Most of the party remains in complicit silence. The few elected officials who have broken with Trump have become targets of the conservative media complex — savaged as an example to the others.

This is the sad logic of Republican politics today: The only way that elected Republicans will abandon Trump is if they see it as in their self-interest. And the only way they will believe it is in their self-interest is to watch a considerable number of their fellow Republicans lose.

It is necessary to look these facts full in the face. In the end, the restoration of the Republican Party will require Republicans to lose elections. It will require Republican voters — as in Alabama and (to some extent) Virginia — to sit out, write in or even vote Democratic in races involving pro-Trump Republicans. It may require Republicans to lose control of the House (now very plausible) and to lose control of the Senate (still unlikely). It will certainly require Trump to lose control of the presidency. In the near term, this is what victory for Republicans will look like: strategic defeat. Recovery will be found only on the other side of loss.

Even if moral arguments do not suffice, the political ones are compelling. Trump and his allies are solidifying the support of rural, blue-collar and evangelical Christian whites at the expense of alienating minorities, women, suburbanites and the young. This is a foolish bargain, destroying the moral and political standing of the Republican Party, which seems complicit in its own decline. It falls to Republican voters to end this complicity.

For conservatives, the ultimate goal is not the victory of Democrats, who, in different ways, are mistaken and offensive (on economics, the role of government, entitlement reform, the protection of the unborn and much else). The common cause of Trump’s political repudiation is necessary but temporary. It is the emergency method for Republicans to detach themselves from Trump, create a new party identity and become worthy of winning.....

You can call this concern trolling on my part, but Gerson's not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination. If JE's not drowning in one of his tweetstorms, I wonder what his reaction would be to this. I don't have to ask about Clapper's.
   1898. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:33 PM (#5593018)
My top ideology is Batthism. Awesome.
   1899. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:35 PM (#5593020)
Your top ideologies are:
Compassionate conservatism 67%
Free-market environmentalism 88%
Fusionism 93%
Paleolibertarianism 67%

Your worst ideologies are:
Anarcho-communism -64%
Luxemburgism -67%
Queer anarchism -70%
   1900. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 14, 2017 at 09:35 PM (#5593021)
Real men hunt cows in the wild.
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