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Monday, December 11, 2017

OTP 11 December, 2017 - GOP strategist: Moore would have ‘date with a baseball bat’ if he tried dating teens where I grew up

“I grew up in Mississippi. Every father I knew, if he saw a guy like Roy Moore in his 30s trying to date his 16-year-old daughter, he would have had a date with a baseball bat,” Stevens, a former aide to Mitt Romney’s campaign, said on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.”

Stevens, who worked on former Alabama Gov. Bob Riley’s (R) primary campaign against Moore in 2006, said Moore has violated the “decency standard” of civil society in his previous alleged pursuit of teenage girls.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 08:53 AM | 2653 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bats, bats are afraid, politics

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   2101. BrianBrianson Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5593319)
Presumably if Flynn is pardoned, he loses motivation to cooperate (well, maybe gotta pardon his son too). Which would probably be detrimental to the investigation.
   2102. Wayne Newton's pet monkey (gef, talking mongoose) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5593320)
Do I lose all my sci-fi cred if I admit that I first saw Rogue One just a month ago?


Haven't seen a Star Wars since the 2nd one -- Empire Strikes Back, I guess -- back when I was in college. But I only got around to watching Contact a couple of weeks ago. Really good.
   2103. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5593321)
Does Battelstar Galactica get made?


And more importantly, later rebooted so awesomely?
   2104. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5593322)
The Negro Leagues X-Files episode is a masterpiece.


This.

Very much this.

Probably among my 10 favorite single episodes of all TV shows ever.
   2105. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:58 PM (#5593323)
2090

The problem even under this standard is that if Trump didn't collude with Russia -- and Trump is uniquely suited to know that -- then he could very reasonably decide that the sham Mueller investigation is harming the country.


Certainly glad to see you're keeping an open mind, Ray, and are so willing to let the investigation play out before throwing out an opinion on it...
   2106. Srul Itza Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:58 PM (#5593324)
the sham Mueller investigation


... which has already resulted in a guilty plea . .
   2107. BrianBrianson Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:58 PM (#5593325)
Two guilty pleas.
   2108. Wayne Newton's pet monkey (gef, talking mongoose) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5593326)
Trying to find the Season 8 (or maybe it was 7?) episode that lured me back in. Something about a kid disappearing from a playground. Delightfully grim.


This one.

####### stupid website.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invocation_(The_X-Files)
   2109. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5593327)
Two guilty pleas.


Just for lying....

...about Russia.
   2110. BDC Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:01 PM (#5593328)
I was 17, just graduated from high school. Probably too old to make a religion out of it

Same with me – I was 18 the summer of the first Star Wars. I went to see it, and it was fun. It reminded me of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon (which I had seen on TV long after their first run) and a little bit of Robin Hood movies and The Sword in the Stone and stuff like that. And The Empire Strikes Back was very well-done. But I never thought of Star Wars as either great storytelling or great cinema. Maybe I needed a dash of fun in my life even at the age of 18. My father and I used to talk a lot about movies and we had something of a Siskel and Ebert vibe going at the time. I thought The Deer Hunter and Apocalypse Now were really great films, and he preferred Raiders of the Lost Ark.
   2111. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5593329)
2067 was unlike 2024 at all -- you know, since 2067 quoted me and then Dershowitz as a rebuttal -- but do carry on.
Since you asked nicely, sure - you're correct, I do 2067 a disservice in comparing it to 2024. 2067 made at least an attempt to place the mic-drop quote in some kind of discussion context, whereas 2024 (and countless other mindless examples of drivel from Adams, Dershowitz, and others) have been spammed at us "without comment" for years. So 2067 has my apologies, and I appreciate that you share my amusement at the, let's say, irony of 2074.
   2112. BrianBrianson Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5593330)
Jose Chung's From Outer Space is probably my favorite X-files episode. But I can't fault all y'all for preferring The Unnatural
   2113. Lassus Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5593332)
But I only got around to watching Contact a couple of weeks ago. Really good.

What the
   2114. BDC Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:05 PM (#5593333)
Although in time I came to be a bigger X-Files fan than my dad was. I prefer something with a dash of SF to straight-up fantasy or space opera, and the X-Files provided that. I think zonk makes a good point, that the show contributed to conspiracy mindsets, but unintentionally. Or rather, it was uneven on that front. They tried to generate serious pathos over the years using Mulder's sister and Scully's continual abductions and pregnancy and what-not. But then they had these wacky one-off episodes and the three guys in their mom's basement and the rest of the tongue-in-cheek treatment of the paranormal that I really appreciated.

And yes, Jose Chung is a great, great hour of TV. You have to know the show to some extent to really love it, but what a sharp (and very tongue-in-cheek) episode.
   2115. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5593334)
Taking Candy From a Baby

President Trump spoke today with President Putin. From the White House readout …

Readout of President Donald J. Trump’s Call with President Vladimir Putin of Russia

President Donald J. Trump spoke with President Vladimir Putin of Russia today. President Trump thanked President Putin for acknowledging America’s strong economic performance in his annual press conference.

The two presidents also discussed working together to resolve the very dangerous situation in North Korea.


This was an apparent reference to Putin telling an end of the year press conference that the success of the stock market and ongoing economic growth was a sign of the power of President Trump’s stewardship of the economy. This was apparently the main thing they talked about on the phone.


Indeed... in fact, I thought that perhaps Josh had ellipsed or clipped the WH Readout of the call - but nope - that's the entirety of it.
   2116. BDC Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:08 PM (#5593336)
I only got around to watching Contact a couple of weeks ago. Really good

Twenty years from now, then, you'll really like Arrival.
   2117. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5593337)
Although in time I came to be a bigger X-Files fan than my dad was. I prefer something with a dash of SF to straight-up fantasy or space opera, and the X-Files provided that. I think zonk makes a good point, that the show contributed to conspiracy mindsets, but unintentionally. Or rather, it was uneven on that front. They tried to generate serious pathos over the years using Mulder's sister and Scully's continual abductions and pregnancy and what-not. But then they had these wacky one-off episodes and the three guys in their mom's basement and the rest of the tongue-in-cheek treatment of the paranormal that I really appreciated.


The Lone Gunmen were awesome. I liked their spin-off...
   2118. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5593338)
Brought the space opera very much back into vogue.
Why does everyone forget Dark Star? ;)

True, Alien handled the material much better...
   2119. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5593342)
The problem even under this standard is that if Trump didn't collude with Russia -- and Trump is uniquely suited to know that -- then he could very reasonably decide that the sham Mueller investigation is harming the country.

If Trump did collude with Russia---and even if there's independent corroborating evidence that he did---you'd have to subject him to the full Guantanamo to get him to admit it. Which in many ways might be poetic justice.
   2120. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5593344)
Why does everyone forget Dark Star? ;)


That's what you get for being released the same year as Zardoz.
   2121. Wayne Newton's pet monkey (gef, talking mongoose) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:15 PM (#5593345)
Twenty years from now, then, you'll really like Arrival.


Indeed. Also very good (as was, on a much less grand scale, the Charlie Sheen movie of that name from a couple of decades back).

I watched The Space Between Us right after Contact. Nice juxtaposition, really.
   2122. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:17 PM (#5593347)
Has anyone watched the latest X-Files revival episodes? I saw Mulder and Scully Meet the Were-Monster and was impressed, but didn't catch any of the conspiracy arc eps.
   2123. Wayne Newton's pet monkey (gef, talking mongoose) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:18 PM (#5593348)
Although in time I came to be a bigger X-Files fan than my dad was. I prefer something with a dash of SF to straight-up fantasy or space opera, and the X-Files provided that.


Yep. Way back in the '80s, after a decade of so of immersion in the genre, I realized that I didn't much care for sf set anywhere but Earth, & only in the past, present for somewhat near future at that. Clearly, somewhere along the way my Sense of Wonder muscle atrophied badly. (This was also around the time Phil Dick died, too. That didn't help at all.)
   2124. Wayne Newton's pet monkey (gef, talking mongoose) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:19 PM (#5593349)
Has anyone watched the latest X-Files revival episodes? I saw Mulder and Scully Meet the Were-Monster and was impressed, but didn't catch any of the conspiracy arc eps.


They're definitely worth watching.
   2125. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:25 PM (#5593350)
Presumably if Flynn is pardoned, he loses motivation to cooperate (well, maybe gotta pardon his son too). Which would probably be detrimental to the investigation.

If Flynn changes his story in mid-investigation, Mueller could bring new perjury claims, and perhaps bring charges concerning Flynn's earlier activities that weren't included in the initial indictment. More importantly, at this point it appears that any Trump pardon of Flynn would likely to come after Mueller's investigation is completed, and thus couldn't affect it. Or are folks here suggesting that Mueller is being played now, with Flynn, at Trump's behest, sending the investigation on a wild goose chase that will inevitably lead to a dead end? I will simply note that would be the complete opposite of what BBTF Team Blue has contended since Flynn's cooperation became known.
   2126. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5593352)

I liked their spin-off...
So you were the one.
   2127. BrianBrianson Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:30 PM (#5593353)
He doesn't need change his story. Just no longer agree to testify, or be exceedingly unavailable.

I assume his cooperation right now is on the level.
   2128. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5593355)
Two guilty pleas.

Just for lying....

...about Russia.


Lol.
   2129. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:34 PM (#5593356)
Presumably if Flynn is pardoned, he loses motivation to cooperate (well, maybe gotta pardon his son too). Which would probably be detrimental to the investigation


As pointed out when the Flynn pleaded guilty, there are still a whole host of nasty potential state level charges hanging over his head (and his son's). Since Mueller is working in concert with several state AGs, it seems pretty clear that state level charges are being held in abeyance to elicit cooperation and preserve the threat of prosecution in the face of potential presidential pardons.

[edit] A fact of which I'm very sure Mueller made Flynn aware.

   2130. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5593357)
Lol.


Which would be your identical response if this were a Clinton administration. You understand that we all know you're full of ####, yeah?
   2131. baravelli Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:36 PM (#5593358)
I'm not seeing the gotcha. Dershowitz is saying he can be impeached for that. I agree. I asked why he SHOULD be impeached for that.


This is different from your original phrasing, which was:

Why would the president exercising his constitutional powers be something that should be impeachable?


To me it looked like you were asking how an exercise of his constitutional powers can be considered impeachable in general, rather than whether a particular exercise rose to the level of an impeachable offense.
   2132. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:36 PM (#5593359)
The problem even under this standard is that if Trump didn't collude with Russia -- and Trump is uniquely suited to know that
This is nonsense.

Russia ###### with our election to get Trump in. Bottom line, end of story. The Russians were astute enough to understand that a Trump presidency would be Clown Shoes and they (Russia) would be able to take advantage. Which they have.

"Oh, but Trump has done stuff Russia doesn't like!": Don't be stupid. Russia doesn't care about the specifics, they're just laughing because of the circus they've brought into play.
"Hillary talked to the Russians!!": Don't be stupid. Russia did whatever it could however it could to compromise everyone they could. Yes, sure, prosecute Citizen Hillary - she deserves it. The stupid part is letting that sideshow obscure actual ridiculosity by actual administration people.
"Trump didn't 'collude' personally!": Don't be stupid. Russia's smart enough not to touch Big Orange directly; much better to undermine what credibility the Deplorables prop him up with by ####### with his subordinates. Who are stupid.

The damage is being done, and shortsighted scoreboard watchers cheering on the spectacle and doubling down in their foxholes are, at this point, the bulk of the problem. Trump as POTUS is largely ineffective. Gorsuch would have been appointed by any R, and literally any other R^ would have been more capable at repealing ACA, putting together a coherent tax/spending strategy, and handling international relations. Trump is a joke, and anyone cheering him on is repugnant.

Trump isn't "uniquely suited" to know a damn thing. He's a caricature of whatever business acumen he may have once had, wrapped up in a childish wad of id.

^OK, probably not Carson.
   2133. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:40 PM (#5593360)
Russia ###### with our election to get Trump in. Bottom line, end of story. The Russians were astute enough to understand that a Trump presidency would be Clown Shoes and they (Russia) would be able to take advantage. Which they have.


To be fair to the astute Russians, plenty of US citizens predicted POTUS Clown Shoes as well, a majority of the voters even.

But yea, Russia knew Trump would weaken the US and ha, boy did they get a lot of milleage out of this one. If they truly were playing the long con and were using Trump as a money laundering vessel while also cultivating a relationship over the course of decades in case he decided to run for POTUS -- well Vlad, caviar is on me, well played, well played.
   2134. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:43 PM (#5593363)
Russia ###### with our election to get Trump in. Bottom line, end of story.


The "to get Trump in" part is very much in doubt. But do carry on.

"Trump didn't 'collude' personally!": Don't be stupid. Russia's smart enough not to touch Big Orange directly; much better to undermine what credibility the Deplorables prop him up with by ####### with his subordinates. Who are stupid.


Under this scenario, Trump should be impeached because his campaign did something unbeknownst to him?

Trump as POTUS is largely ineffective.


Can I say "Lol" here too, or is it more credible if I just say that this conclusion is silly.
   2135. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:44 PM (#5593364)
I'm not too worried about Trump getting out of anything by pardoning Flynn... and I'm also confidant that Mueller's team hasn't unzipped their fly on how and what they charged him anyway.

For that matter, if he wants to just start firing people investigating him -- or rather, firing people until he gets someone who will fire someone investigating him on his orders -- go for it.

Mr. 32% Approve and dropping isn't setting records for unpopularity because people think he's too honest or honorable... so sure, make the super-majority of the country's day, Trumpkins. Get the pink slips printed up.

More than happy to see how THAT plays out. Do I need to triple-dog dare you?
   2136. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:45 PM (#5593365)
Under this scenario, Trump should be impeached because his campaign did something unbeknownst to him?


Trump should be impeached for obstructing justice. Keep asking, it's the same answer every time over here in reality.
   2137. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5593366)
Trump as POTUS is largely ineffective.

Can I say "Lol" here too, or is it more credible if I just say that this conclusion is silly.


You have to remember that Ray's WAR leaderboard has the San Diego Chicken at #6 - just between Mays and Cobb.
   2138. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:47 PM (#5593367)
Does Battelstar Galactica get made?


And more importantly, later rebooted so awesomely?


I've never seen the original BSG, but I'd agree that the first season of the reboot was awesome, probably my favorite season of any show. The second season was still very good, though it got kind of dull with the recycling of plot points. Seasons 3 and 4 were not so good and by the end I was pretty much just watching because I needed to make it to the end to answer a bunch of lingering questions ... many of which never got answered.
   2139. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:49 PM (#5593369)
I've never seen the original BSG, but I'd agree that the first season of the reboot was awesome, probably my favorite season of any show. The second season was still very good, though it got kind of dull with the recycling of plot points. Seasons 3 and 4 were not so good and by the end I was pretty much just watching because I needed to make it to the end to answer a bunch of lingering questions ... many of which never got answered.


Well, I'm also the only one that enjoyed the ending of BSG (apparently) - I thought the capstone (both the actual episodic finale and the final storyline) were perfect.

I will agree, however, that the end of season 3/first half of season 4 had problems... some high points, though, too.
   2140. BrianBrianson Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:49 PM (#5593370)
Under this scenario, Trump should be impeached because his campaign did something unbeknownst to him?


No, but the scenario where Tillerson or Pence or someone is the main colluder, and Trump is just a chump, Mueller's investigation remains necessary and proper to get the other person, and Trump interfering with that would be a huge problem.
   2141. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:51 PM (#5593371)
Robert Muller's Deal with Michael Flynn Neutralizes Trump's Pardon Power


Mueller’s charges and Flynn’s plea still leave open the possibility of state charges, just in case Trump pardons Flynn federally. Presidential pardons apply only to federal crimes. I’ve written before about how Mueller’s prosecutorial strategy required him to navigate complicated state-level double jeopardy rules. His charges against Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, and George Papadopoulos reflected a sharp strategy to bring certain charges, while leaving plenty of others available to state prosecutors. (I’ve provided a long list of state crimes that relate to Trump-Russia allegations.)

Let me spell out how this strategy would apply to Flynn. The former national security adviser has pleaded guilty to one charge of making a false statement to the FBI. What are the other charges a state prosecutor could bring?

In early November, the Wall Street Journal reported that Flynn and his son Michael Flynn Jr. allegedly discussed a scheme in which they would receive up to $15 million for taking part in an extradition scheme and an extralegal “rendition” of cleric Fethullah Gülen, an opponent of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. These allegations could be grounds for charges of bribery and conspiracy to kidnap (as well as conspiracy to assault and perhaps other violent crimes).

The state of Pennsylvania, where Gülen resides, offers extra protections against double jeopardy beyond the rights guaranteed by the federal Fifth Amendment. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court holds that “a subsequent prosecution and imposition of punishment for the same offense will not be permitted unless the Commonwealth’s interests are substantially different from the interests of the jurisdiction that initially prosecuted and imposed punishment.” Given that, Flynn’s federal deal—which does not include any charges related to the alleged Gülen incident—preserves a number of criminal charges relating to kidnapping, assault, and bribery in Pennsylvania, as well as parallel charges in New York and possibly Virginia. State tax fraud may also be in this mix.
   2142. BDC Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:55 PM (#5593372)
Has anyone watched the latest X-Files revival episodes?

I kind of liked the one with the lizard man, but on the whole the story editing was very chaotic. But I watched them all. And there are more in January, or was I hallucinating? I'll probably watch them too.
   2143. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:56 PM (#5593373)
The idea that Trump has thus far had a successful presidency is awesome. I think all those who believe it should definitely shout that from the rooftops along with all the massive accomplishments they see the administration having accomplished.
   2144. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:02 PM (#5593375)
The idea that Trump has thus far had a successful presidency is awesome. I think all those who believe it should definitely shout that from the rooftops along with all the massive accomplishments they see the administration having accomplished.


By the metric that matters most (pissing off libs, POC, women) he's the GOAT.
   2145. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5593377)
The idea that Trump has thus far had a successful presidency is awesome. I think all those who believe it should definitely shout that from the rooftops along with all the massive accomplishments they see the administration having accomplished.


I'll say this - I think I over-weighted the chances of malignant problems and errors vs sheer ridiculousness.... I thought it would be something like 60/40 split, but it turns out that it's more like 40/60 (if not closer to 30/70 or even 20/80).

His sheer ridiculousness has managed to trip up his bad judgment and incompetence.

It's a good thing.
   2146. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:04 PM (#5593378)
"Trump didn't 'collude' personally!": Don't be stupid. Russia's smart enough not to touch Big Orange directly; much better to undermine what credibility the Deplorables prop him up with by ####### with his subordinates. Who are stupid.

Under this scenario, Trump should be impeached because his campaign did something unbeknownst to him?
I know intentional obtuseness is one of your gigs, but try not to come across as stupid. Did I say "Trump should be impeached"? No, I did not. Don't tar me with a brush you are too stupid to apply properly. If you want to argue with someone about the merits of impeachment, feel free. Don't respond to my posts with stupid non sequiturs you think you're turning into strawmen; it's not a good look.

Maybe Trump should be impeached for something, I honestly have no idea. I haven't seen him do anything impeachable yet, although I do personally believe he is unfit due to his misogyny, serial lying, demonstrated racism, general lack of social skills, and inability to concentrate long enough to finish his own sentences. Maybe Mueller's investigation will find something, we'll have to wait and see. None of that has anything to do with the fact of Russia ####### with us.

----------------
ETA:
Under this scenario, Trump should be impeached because his campaign did something unbeknownst to him?

No, but the scenario where Tillerson or Pence or someone is the main colluder, and Trump is just a chump, Mueller's investigation remains necessary and proper to get the other person, and Trump interfering with that would be a huge problem.
See, that's what it looks like when someone reads, comprehends, and responds to the actual content of a post. Try it sometime. Note: I don't think it's Tillerson or Pence, and I don't know if there even *is* a someone, but letting Flynn off easy would *seem* to indicate there's a someone, somewhere, out there, beneath the pale moonlight.
   2147. Traderdave Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:06 PM (#5593379)
The idea that Trump has thus far had a successful presidency is awesome.


Well, he did say he'd be the first to make money off running for President and he is on the verge of engineering a major tax cut for himself. He's also above the fold every single day. Since those are the only two goals, he is a fantastic success in his own (very ###### up) head.
   2148. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5593380)
I think all those who believe it should definitely shout that from the rooftops along with all the massive accomplishments they see the administration having accomplished.


One accomplishment of his trumps all the rest: nobody has to feel emasculated by the presence of a successful woman occupying the oval office.
   2149. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:10 PM (#5593382)
[2147] Don't forget about him funneling government money to himself through use of Mar-a-Lago, etc.
   2150. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:13 PM (#5593383)
Your TDS slips are showing.
   2151. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:15 PM (#5593384)
Your TDS slips are showing.


Your Monkey Dance is weak, Dancing Monkey #4.
   2152. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:17 PM (#5593385)
Trump as POTUS is largely ineffective.

Can I say "Lol" here too, or is it more credible if I just say that this conclusion is silly.
None of what you've posted regarding politics in the last couple years has any credibility. Pat yourself on the back all you want for whatever it is you think you're smart about; sane people understand you're not "credible" in this area. The things you value, and the way you define key metrics and concepts, are different than nearly every other person. That's fine; more power to you. Just don't be under a delusion that you're playing in the same sandbox as most people.
   2153. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5593387)
Well, he did say he'd be the first to make money off running for President and he is on the verge of engineering a major tax cut for himself.


Also impeachable.
   2154. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5593389)
He's also above the fold every single day.


Trump doesn't read newspapers. He doesn't read. His only concern is television. He treats the Presidency like a reality TV show, and more or less anyone who supports him is a stubbed toe away from basic treason.
   2155. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:20 PM (#5593390)
None of what you've posted regarding politics in the last couple years has any credibility. Pat yourself on the back all you want for whatever it is you think you're smart about; sane people understand you're not "credible" in this area. The things you value, and the way you define key metrics and concepts, are different than nearly every other person. That's fine; more power to you. Just don't be under a delusion that you're playing in the same sandbox as most people.


Really. And furthermore, I fail to see what value he adds to this forum. Can someone please explain it to me?
   2156. Lassus Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5593393)
... many of which never got answered. [re: Battlestar Galactica reboot]

It is very difficult for me to think well of any of Ron Moore's work after the way he closed out that series. One of my bad qualities is that I have an innate ability to hold a very focused, constant grudge.
   2157. Lassus Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5593395)
He's also above the fold every single day.
Trump doesn't read newspapers.


I think at this point we can take that phrase as a metaphor.
   2158. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:25 PM (#5593396)
Some would say this calls into question the administration's judicial nominee process. Some might even say more exhaustive vetting is warranted. Perhaps we shouldn't be rushing to approve nominees to lifetime appointments if this is the caliber of candidates presented by the Republican Party.
Of course, this came out when he was being vetted.

Note: the ABA rated this guy qualified. So they make both Type I and Type II errors.
   2159. Shredder Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:26 PM (#5593397)
The problem even under this standard is that if Trump didn't collude with Russia -- and Trump is uniquely suited to know that
I'll assume this was Ray. If so, it's funny how when we talk about collusion, it's always whether "Trump" colluded with Russia, and just Trump. Contrast that with the Hillary campaign colluding with the entirety of the Russian government because Steele may have spoken with some Russian individuals.

Of course, anyone not surgically attached to Trump's scrotum (so not Ray) knows quite well that people high up in the Trump campaign could have colluded with Russia with Trump being none the wiser, largely because he's an idiot, but even moreso because he is completely intellectually incurious, and would rather not know anything that doesn't make him happy.

Or probably coke to Peptech maybe?
   2160. Morty Causa Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:27 PM (#5593398)
Maybe Trump should be impeached for something, I honestly have no idea. I haven't seen him do anything impeachable yet, although I do personally believe he is unfit due to his misogyny, serial lying, demonstrated racism, general lack of social skills, and inability to concentrate long enough to finish his own sentences. Maybe Mueller's investigation will find something, we'll have to wait and see. None of that has anything to do with the fact of Russia ####### with us.

All that is sufficient. Especially the last. The worst effect of Trump may be that the Right is indirectly working at letting Russia skate on what it's done. And had this been Hillary doing all this, had Russia been working to sabotage Trump, we'd never hear the end of it. It needs to be said: can this country be any more pathetic. And the answer is--surprisingly, maybe--yes. It's more important to some that partisan party politics trump even what would be good for the country (finding out if our election was compromised by an enemy foreign power should be paramount).
   2161. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5593400)
Ann Coulter:
We singles live empty lives of quiet desperation and will die alone. Now Rubio is demanding that we also fund happy families with children who fill their days with joy.


Wow.
   2162. dlf Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5593401)
Trump as POTUS is largely ineffective.


Can I say "Lol" here too, or is it more credible if I just say that this conclusion is silly.


This isn't intended to be a gotcha at all, but rather a request for clarification: how would you define an effective first year of any presidency and how does that apply to DJT's first year?

...

Personally, my definition would focus on the ability to effectuate the policy statements made during the campaign as well as response(s) to any national or international crises which arise with, as a secondary concern, the ability to maintain the status quo assuming the status quo contained no crisis situations. Note that it has nothing, in my definition, to do with whether I think those policy choices are wise or unwise, just whether he was able, through legislation or regulation, to carry them out. With that definition, DJT has been the least effective first year Presidents in my lifetime.
   2163. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5593402)
people high up in the Trump campaign could have colluded with Russia with Trump being none the wiser, largely because he's an idiot, but even moreso because he is completely intellectually incurious, and would rather not know anything that doesn't make him happy.

That, and also Trump may be lying about what he knows.
   2164. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:30 PM (#5593404)
The problem even under this standard is that if Trump didn't collude with Russia -- and Trump is uniquely suited to know that

I'll assume this was Ray. If so, it's funny how when we talk about collusion, it's always whether "Trump" colluded with Russia, and just Trump. Contrast that with the Hillary campaign colluding with the entirety of the Russian government because Steele may have spoken with some Russian individuals.

Of course, anyone not surgically attached to Trump's scrotum (so not Ray) knows quite well that people high up in the Trump campaign could have colluded with Russia with Trump being none the wiser, largely because he's an idiot, but even moreso because he is completely intellectualy incurious, and would rather not know anything that doesn't make him happy.


I'd respond, but since Shredder won't see my response it would be pointless.
   2165. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5593405)
Ann Coulter:
We singles live empty lives of quiet desperation and will die alone.
I am flabbergasted. I never suspected Ann Coulter realized that about herself.
   2166. Hysterical & Useless Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5593406)
One of my bad qualities is that I have an innate ability to hold a very focused, constant grudge.


Nonsense. If you get over a grudge, you're a flip-flopper. Holding a grudge evinces strength of character. What office do you want to run for?
   2167. Lassus Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5593407)
Finally, an Ann Coulter post that fills me with joy.
   2168. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:33 PM (#5593408)
I'd respond, but since Shredder won't see my response it would be pointless.
That's not why it would be pointless. Why stop now?
   2169. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:33 PM (#5593409)
He went boom on The Hill story about Lisa Bloom (Gloria Allred's daughter) allegedly arranging payments for Trump accusers at the end of last year.

From the article linked in #2046:
A well-known women’s rights lawyer sought to arrange compensation from donors and tabloid media outlets for women who made or considered making sexual misconduct allegations against Donald Trump during the final months of the 2016 presidential race, according to documents and interviews.

California lawyer Lisa Bloom’s efforts included offering to sell alleged victims’ stories to TV outlets in return for a commission for herself, arranging a donor to pay off one Trump accuser’s mortgage and attempting to secure a six-figure payment for another woman who ultimately declined to come forward after being offered as much as $750,000, the clients told The Hill.

The women’s accounts were chronicled in contemporaneous contractual documents, emails and text messages reviewed by The Hill, including an exchange of texts between one woman and Bloom that suggested political action committees supporting Hillary Clinton were contacted during the effort.

Bloom, who has assisted dozens of women in prominent harassment cases and also defended film executive Harvey Weinstein earlier this year, represented four women considering making accusations against Trump last year. Two went public, and two declined.

In a statement to The Hill, Bloom acknowledged she engaged in discussions to secure donations for women who made or considered making accusations against Trump before last year’s election.

Allred & Bloom don't seem to be good at anything other than self-promotion, and even that may be limited to making themselves well-known.
   2170. Shredder Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:40 PM (#5593412)
I'd respond, but since Shredder won't see my response it would be pointless.
That's certainly never stopped Ray from making pointless posts before.
   2171. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:43 PM (#5593414)
I am flabbergasted. I never suspected Ann Coulter realized that about herself.


She's not stupid. Evil, yes, crazy, probably but not stupid.
   2172. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5593415)
Allred & Bloom don't seem to be good at anything other than self-promotion, and even that may be limited to making themselves well-known.


So, like Alan Dershowitz and/or Donald Trump.
   2173. Traderdave Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5593418)
Allred & Bloom don't seem to be good at anything other than self-promotion, and even that may be limited to making themselves well-known.


So, like Alan Dershowitz and/or Donald Trump.


A 32% approval rating indicates he's pretty lousy at self promotion, despite the massive effort he puts into it.
   2174. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:53 PM (#5593419)
Russia ###### with our election to get Trump in. Bottom line, end of story.

The "to get Trump in" part is very much in doubt. But do carry on.
Since you asked, sure. I don't believe Russia in 2012 or 2013 thought to themselves, hey, let's get Trump elected. I think that Russian intelligence agencies are always ####### around here, just like I assume our intelligence agencies are ####### around over there. As the election cycle played out, it became increasingly plausible that Trump could manage the nomination, at which point the ####### around became more focused. Flunkies like Page or Papa were approached^. Contacts with Manafort and Flynn were resurrected and pressed into service. And so on. We know, because they've admitted it, that they've manipulated social media via Facebook and such - whether those actually *did* anything is debatable, but that they think at *those* levels makes you sane observers wonder what other levels they may be operating at. Did campaign personnel knowingly or unknowingly assist those efforts, say by supplying voter registration info in Wisconsin? I have no idea. Can you categorically rule it out? If "yes", how? If "no", then Mueller should keep looking into things.

"Russia messed with our election" is not the same as "Trump is personally in cahoots with Putin." Your continued public persistence in equating the two concepts is remarkably dense. Everyone mocks the latter, and rightfully so - but only you (and SBB) somehow come to the conclusion that it disproves the former.

^Almost certainly flunkies from the Christie and Jindal and Fiorina camps were approached, too, at some point, and petered out if they ever got anywhere. "Approach" could be sitting next to a target at a bar and seeing if they'll spill anything useful. Or, it could be brazenly offering dirt. Guess who was dumb enough to email about it?
   2175. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5593421)
Since you asked, sure. I don't believe Russia in 2012 or 2013 thought to themselves, hey, let's get Trump elected. I think that Russian intelligence agencies are always ####### around here, just like I assume our intelligence agencies are ####### around over there. As the election cycle played out, it became increasingly plausible that Trump could manage the nomination, at which point the ####### around became more focused. Flunkies like Page or Papa were approached^. Contacts with Manafort and Flynn were resurrected and pressed into service. And so on. We know, because they've admitted it, that they've manipulated social media via Facebook and such - whether those actually *did* anything is debatable, but that they think at *those* levels makes you sane observers wonder what other levels they may be operating at. Did campaign personnel knowingly or unknowingly assist those efforts, say by supplying voter registration info in Wisconsin? I have no idea. Can you categorically rule it out? If "yes", how? If "no", then Mueller should keep looking into things.


Here is some incoherent speculation! Now prove your innocence! This is America!
   2176. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:59 PM (#5593423)

"Russia messed with our election" is not the same as "Trump is personally in cahoots with Putin." Your continued public persistence in equating the two concepts is remarkably dense. Everyone mocks the latter, and rightfully so - but only you (and SBB) somehow come to the conclusion that it disproves the former.


Oh, please. This investigation, and the fevered desires of people who support it, is about Trump or his campaign specifically colluding with Russia. It's not about the general "Russia messed with our election."
   2177. spycake Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5593425)
Ann Coulter: We singles live empty lives of quiet desperation


If only Coulter's desperation was quiet!
   2178. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:05 PM (#5593426)
Can you categorically rule it out? If "yes", how? If "no", then Mueller should keep looking into things.

Here is some incoherent speculation! Now prove your innocence! This is America!
I don't see how that in any way responds coherently, so I'll interpret that as a concession. Accepted.
----------
Note: I have no ####### idea if the above is an actual line of inquiry. Mocking that particular line of inquiry is non-responsive. The point is, there are almost certainly some lines of inquiry out there, or GOPe Mueller wouldn't be utilizing his boss' (GOPe Rosenstein's) resources, with the latter endorsing said efforts before Congress. I don't know what, exactly, they are. Do you have anything to contribute other than pointless mockery of things you have demonstrated you don't understand?
   2179. Count Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:06 PM (#5593427)
Gotta chime in and say that Russian interference by itself should be and is being investigsted but it's not silly at all to think that Trump himself colluded or was aware of collusion based on everything we know. At this point I think it's likely that Trump was at least aware (I was doubtful about this until he fired Comey).
   2180. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5593429)
Oh, please. This investigation, and the fevered desires of people who support it, is about Trump or his campaign specifically colluding with Russia. It's not about the general "Russia messed with our election."
This is what I mean when I say that you define things differently than other people. Sure, there are *some* people with those fevered desires. Many, many other people do see it as a look into the general problem. Both things are true at once, and they don't contradict! That you are intellectually incapable of understanding that concept is very much a symptom of the Decline. What were you doing in 1979?
   2181. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5593430)
Gotta chime in and say that Russian interference by itself should be and is being investigsted but it's not silly at all to think that Trump himself colluded or was aware of collusion based on everything we know. At this point I think it's likely that Trump was at least aware (I was doubtful about this until he fired Comey).


Trump was told (probably by Kushner or Don, Jr), thought he might benefit from it, and say "sure." There's literally no downward limit on what he would do if he thought there was a benefit for himself.
   2182. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:20 PM (#5593436)
This is what I mean when I say that you define things differently than other people. Sure, there are *some* people with those fevered desires. Many, many other people do see it as a look into the general problem.


Bull. Sh^t.

This investigation is about Get Trump. It's about nothing else. And that's what the people cheering it on are cheering for.

If they wanted -- and if you folks were interested in -- an actual fact-finding commission just to learn generally about Russian interference, it would have been similar to the 9/11 commission. And in fact it should have been.

Putting people under oath and charging them with crimes to get them to flip on people above them, all when the thing they're looking for (collusion with Russia) isn't a crime, is a witch hunt and is unAmerican. It's banana republic type stuff, investigating the winners of an election. It's bad enough to be cheerleading this, but pretending that that's not what folks are cheerleading is not part of any serious discussion.
   2183. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:20 PM (#5593437)
it's not silly at all to think that Trump himself colluded or was aware of collusion based on everything we know
I am willing to be disproved but I believe that Trump himself is at best a passive observer in any "collusion". Someone like Kushner might have said something at some point, but I don't think DJT himself gave it a whole lot of thought (or *can* give - anything - "a whole lot of thought"). That's why the original statement that Trump is uniquely qualified to know if he colluded is so laughable. What's collusion? When does it cross the line into being criminal? Trump doesn't care about the nuances and probably can't understand them. He may be guilty of something, but only because ignorance is not a defense.
   2184. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5593438)
Ray, #1996:
Why would the president exercising his constitutional powers be something that should be impeachable?


Yes, why?
Interfering or endeavouring to interfere with the conduct of investigations by the Department of Justice of the United States, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the office of Watergate Special Prosecution Force, and Congressional Committees;

Making or causing to be made false or misleading public statements for the purpose of deceiving the people of the United States into believing that a thorough and complete investigation had been conducted with respect to allegations of misconduct on the part of personnel of the executive branch of the United States and personnel of the Committee for the Re-election of the President, and that there was no involvement of such personnel in such misconduct;

Endeavouring to cause prospective defendants, and individuals duly tried and convicted, to expect favoured treatment and consideration in return for their silence or false testimony, or rewarding individuals for their silence or false testimony;

In disregard of the rule of law, he knowingly misused the executive power by interfering with agencies of the executive branch, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Criminal Division, and the Office of Watergate Special Prosecution Force, of the Department of Justice, and the Central Intelligence Agency, in violation of his duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.

But there's good news for Trump: the House Judiciary Committee voted down an article of impeachment that accused Richard Nixon of dodging his taxes.


Ray, #2016:
He can't obstruct justice simply by exercising his constitutional powers, with nothing more. If he bribed witnesses or forged documents he could obstruct justice, but not simply by pardoning someone -- even someone who might finger him in crimes. Bush's pardon of Caspar Weinberger provides factual precedent, which doesn't mean it has to be considered persuasive by a court but it's on point.


As seen above, an article of impeachment was passed against Nixon because he'd indicated he might be willing to pardon Watergate defendants.

The most "on point" reason Bush was not impeached is that he remained president for a whole three and a half weeks after doing issuing the pardons. However, if Trump agrees to leave office in 26 days, he could receive the same leniency.




No Words Charlie to Ray, #2105:
Ray: The problem even under this standard is that if Trump didn't collude with Russia -- and Trump is uniquely suited to know that -- then he could very reasonably decide that the sham Mueller investigation is harming the country.

Charlie: Certainly glad to see you're keeping an open mind, Ray, and are so willing to let the investigation play out before throwing out an opinion on it...


Well, we heard throughout 2016 that Donald Trump was Secretariat. So Robert Mueller can be Sham. Except this time Sham might win.
   2185. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5593439)
2182

It's banana republic type stuff, investigating the winners of an election.


Yep, the GOP-controlled House, the GOP-controlled Senate and the GOP-approved SCOTUS Justices are sure some banana republic...
   2186. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5593440)
Ray, #2182:
This investigation is about Get Trump. It's about nothing else.


No, it's also homophobic.
   2187. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5593442)
It's banana republic type stuff


You're concerned about "banana republic type stuff" because you're well aware that you elected an ass-clown dictator wanna be to the office that holds the nuclear codes. We're not the people who elected Mugabe, dumbass.
   2188. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5593443)
The Kush is looking to hire Mendendez' PR crisis firm. Nice.
   2189. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:30 PM (#5593444)
If they wanted -- and if you folks were interested in -- an actual fact-finding commission just to learn generally about Russian interference, it would have been similar to the 9/11 commission. And in fact it should have been.

Putting people under oath and charging them with crimes to get them to flip on people above them, all when the thing they're looking for (collusion with Russia) isn't a crime, is a witch hunt and is unAmerican. It's banana republic type stuff, investigating the winners of an election.
I appreciate you actually being responsive, even if we disagree. Thank you for that. I would caution, again, about using "you folks" as some sort of broad brush. Are there partisan flunkies waiting for Trump to go down? Absolutely. But there are also moderate/independent voices concerned about the precedent set in this election. What is your opinion of someone like David Gergen?

Mueller has been pretty tight-lipped. We don't really know - maybe this is more like the 9/11 commission than you think. Maybe it's not. I certainly don't know. But rejecting it as a sham doesn't seem productive.

Speaking of Banana Republic type stuff, there's this:
George W. Bush famously distrusted the press; and Bill Clinton’s testy relationship with the media has been well-chronicled since the 1980s. What is now new, however, is the frequency with which this American president attacks the press—and how his words are being used by strongmen and authoritarians around the world to justify their own actions. While in the past, the U.S. might have criticized such words, Trump’s administration has made clear its desire to avoid lecturing other countries. But authoritarians are learning from the U.S. example now in ways the American-values-promoters of yesteryear would not approve of: Dictators are now describing the press in words so similar to how the U.S. president does that it’s sometimes difficult to tell them critiques apart.
   2190. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5593447)
But rejecting it as useless doesn't seem productive.


BINGO!
   2191. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5593448)
Speaking of Banana Republic type stuff, there's this:


Trump is a POS and he's scary this way. He's using techniques that are not helpful for a functioning Democracy and that previous POTUS have deemed outside the lines.
   2192. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5593449)
Trump is a POS and he's scary this way. He's using techniques that are not helpful for a functioning Democracy and that previous POTUS have deemed outside the lines.


NO ONE COULD HAVE KNOWN!

Of course he is. He is who we thought he was.
   2193. PepTech Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:50 PM (#5593454)
Trump believes there are very fine people in the administrations of the Philippines and Venezuela. Only the best people.

But keep being OUTRAEG because "he's being investigated for winning the election." By failure to condemn, you folks are enabling his behavior w/r/t Dutarte and the like. Putin knew damn well he could say "Trump's doing a great job with the market" and get holstered^. Again. Trump is Pavlovian-level predictable on this kind of thing.

^ Note: Not a homophobic application of the term.
   2194. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5593457)
people high up in the Trump campaign could have colluded with Russia with Trump being none the wiser, largely because he's an idiot, but even moreso because he is completely intellectually incurious, and would rather not know anything that doesn't make him happy.


That, and also Trump may be lying about what he knows.

Anyone who imagines Trump would ever tell the truth about anything would have to be a descendant of the Kallikaks or the Jukes.
   2195. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:54 PM (#5593458)
No, it's also homophobic.


It seems to really stick in your craw that I think Colbert's usage of cockholster was homophobic.

You can't seem to let it go.
   2196. Srul Itza Posted: December 15, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5593459)
The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s


A Flash fan?

You seem more an Arrow guy. "You have FAILED this Franchise/City/Country" [Arrow Knife to Neck]
   2197. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 15, 2017 at 04:00 PM (#5593461)
A Flash fan?


Wrong universe.
   2198. Hot Wheeling American Posted: December 15, 2017 at 04:07 PM (#5593464)
It seems to really stick in your craw that I think Colbert's usage of cockholster was homophobic.

Many are wondering why it seems to really stick in your craw that GF often references your weak take on a Colbert bit.
   2199. Srul Itza Posted: December 15, 2017 at 04:16 PM (#5593468)
It seems to really stick in your craw that I think Colbert's usage of cockholster was homophobic.



And yet still not half as dumb as "catcher throwing lanes"

I'm going to bribe the stone mason to carve that as his epitaph.
   2200. Shredder Posted: December 15, 2017 at 04:18 PM (#5593469)
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