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Monday, December 11, 2017

OTP 11 December, 2017 - GOP strategist: Moore would have ‘date with a baseball bat’ if he tried dating teens where I grew up

“I grew up in Mississippi. Every father I knew, if he saw a guy like Roy Moore in his 30s trying to date his 16-year-old daughter, he would have had a date with a baseball bat,” Stevens, a former aide to Mitt Romney’s campaign, said on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.”

Stevens, who worked on former Alabama Gov. Bob Riley’s (R) primary campaign against Moore in 2006, said Moore has violated the “decency standard” of civil society in his previous alleged pursuit of teenage girls.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 11, 2017 at 08:53 AM | 2653 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bats, bats are afraid, politics

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   2501. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 17, 2017 at 07:58 PM (#5594118)
Jolly Andy, #2487:
And people like you (in this case, not Gonfalon) are part of the problem


I can accept that, because I'm part of so many other problems.


While the method of tabulation is bound to be subjective, which can lead to undercounting the raw numbers for everyone, the point is not only the disproportionality of Trump's lying compared to Obama (and Bush), but the 180 degree difference with how they react to the corrections.


It would have been incredibly easy to write an article about that, then. And they should have.

Instead they concocted a mathematical overlay that's supposed to create rhetorical precision, but instead just looks stupid. Barack Obama misrepresented himself every time he pandered and said "folks," but you can't quantify that lie on an abacus.

Anyway, didn't the Onion cover this 15 years ago?
Report: Presidents Washington Through Bush May Have Lied About Key Matters

Implicated in the presidential-lying scandal are George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, James K. Polk, Zachary Taylor, Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Johnson, Ulysses S. Grant, Rutherford B. Hayes, James Garfield, Chester Arthur, Grover Cleveland, Benjamin Harrison, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, William H. Taft, Woodrow Wilson, Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush.
   2502. tshipman Posted: December 17, 2017 at 07:58 PM (#5594119)
I wonder when norms will change and this kind of behavior will be considered unacceptable.

The 79-year-old Cochran appeared frail and at times disoriented during a brief hallway interview on Wednesday. He was unable to answer whether he would remain chairman of the Appropriations Committee, and at one point, needed a staffer to remind him where the Senate chamber is located.

“Don’t believe everything you hear,” Cochran said in a low voice when asked whether he plans to retire after 44 years in office.

However, when queried about whether he would stay on as Appropriations chairman, Cochran seemed confused and just repeated the question. “As chairman of the Appropriations Committee?” Cochran asked.

Cochran had to be guided by staffers around a security checkpoint inside the Capitol. He started to walk into a first-floor room — though the Senate chamber is on the second floor. He was then ushered by an aide up to the Senate.



Thad Cochrane happens to be a Republican. Anyone who replaces him will be a Republican. I don't know why obviously unfit people are allowed to serve like this.

To be clear, I'm not blaming Thad, his family or the Republican party, just the norms that allow this to be considered okay.
   2503. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:03 PM (#5594121)
The most ridiculous thing was when a 100+ year-old Strom Thurmond was third in the line of presidential succession as senate president pro tempore. If you're too dimwitted to frail to serve as president, then you shouldn't be in the line of succession.

Apologies to Ben Carson, Betsy DeVos, and Rick Perry. But you idiots need to go.
   2504. BDC Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:08 PM (#5594122)
William Henry Harrison's presidential lying: "I'm fine, no, really. Probably just a head cold."
   2505. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:21 PM (#5594125)

Again, Robert Mueller is a much better lawyer than you are,

No, he's not.
Everyone up to and including Lionel Hutz is a much better lawyer than you are. Whether that means that privilege is implicated here is a separate question, but there's no doubt that you don't know what you're talking about.
   2506. DavidFoss Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:21 PM (#5594126)
The most ridiculous thing was when a 100+ year-old Strom Thurmond was third in the line of presidential succession as senate president pro tempore.


I don't know what the original intent was, but President Pro Tempore is now a ceremonial position held by the longest serving Senator of the majority party. After Strom, it went back and forth between Byrd & Stevens for a while. Jon Stewart did a bit on a debate between Byrd & Stevens called the 'Coot Off'.

Right now, its Orrin Hatch (Leahy is the D-in-waiting).

From a succession standpoint, the Majority Leader would make much more sense, but I don't see them bothering to amend the Constitution to fix it.
   2507. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:31 PM (#5594129)

Eliason said he could think of “no apparent privilege” that would apply to emails sent between private citizens who have not yet joined the government, as Trump’s team suggested.
Attorney-client privilege, at least plausibly. (Obviously we have no idea whether there were any attorney-client communications using the GSA transition email.) Langkofer also cited the deliberative process privilege and the presidential communications privilege; seems rather implausible that those would apply to private citizens, yes. "President-elect" is not a governmental position; it's just informal terminology.
   2508. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:32 PM (#5594130)
It wouldn't take a constitutional amendment to change the order of succession, only normal legislation from congress. The original Presidential Succession Act of 1792 established the Senate President Pro Tempore as second in line to the presidency. In 1886, Congress removed the Speaker and Senate President from the order of succession and when they were added back in 1947, the Speaker was elevated above the Senate President (a development that a young Alexander Haig failed to note, to his later detriment).

The last time the order of succession was changed was the PATRIOT Act (added the Secretary of Homeland Security).

I'm fine with the senate president being a ceremonial figurehead. I just don't think he should have any real responsibilities. Because of the risk of changing parties, I'd actually be fine with removing both Speaker and Senate President from the line of succession. In other words, have State, Treasury, etc. be next in line right after VP. There's an incentive to assassinating both President and VP in that it would trigger a change of party.
   2509. DavidFoss Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:39 PM (#5594132)
It wouldn't take a constitutional amendment to change the order of succession, only normal legislation from congress. The original Presidential Succession Act of 1792 established the Senate President Pro Tempore as second in line to the presidency. In 1886, Congress removed the Speaker and Senate President from the order of succession and when they were added back in 1947, the Speaker was elevated above the Senate President (a development that a young Alexander Haig failed to note, to his later detriment).

Ah. Thanks for the correction. I don't know why I thought this was in one of the articles of the Constitution. Interesting that they flipped PPT and SoH in 1947.
   2510. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:49 PM (#5594133)
From a succession standpoint, the Majority Leader would make much more sense, but I don't see them bothering to amend the Constitution to fix it.
(1) The Constitution doesn't specify the order of succession at all; it's just statutory. (Well, it specifies that the veep succeeds the president; it doesn't specify beyond that. It leaves it up to Congress.)

(2) There's a strong argument by Akhil Amar that the one thing the Constitution does say makes the current line of succession unconstitutional. Specifically, the Constitution says, "...and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected." (Emphasis added.). In other words, Congress can declare what officer shall serve as president. Prof. Amar argues that the PPT of the Senate, and the Speaker of the House, are not "officers" as that term is used, and therefore Congress has no power to put them in the line of succession.

(3) Whether Amar is correct or not, neither the Majority Leader nor PPT of the Senate nor the Speaker of the House belong in the line of succession. Why? Because leaving them in the line of succession allows for the strong possibility of a change in party control of the White House. The veep and (almost all) cabinet members will be members of the same party as the president, so the opposing party can't seize control of the executive branch by ousting the president if they inherit the job. But there's no similar guarantee with the leaders of congress.


EDIT: Coke to 6-4-3.
   2511. Jay Z Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:52 PM (#5594136)
There's an incentive to assassinating both President and VP in that it would trigger a change of party.


If this is a credible option in any country, I don't really think it matters much what the constitution says.
   2512. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:54 PM (#5594137)

Thad Cochrane happens to be a Republican. Anyone who replaces him will be a Republican. I don't know why obviously unfit people are allowed to serve like this.
Because the alternative, Chris McDaniel, was a loon. (Think Roy Moore sans child molesting.)
   2513. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5594138)
There's an incentive to assassinating both President and VP in that it would trigger a change of party.

If this is a credible option in any country, I don't really think it matters much what the constitution says.
Think of a less extreme example. The Vice President -- let's call him "Spiro Agnew" -- resigns. If Democrats control Congress they have an incentive to slow walk his replacement, knowing that if Nixon is removed from office (legitimately or illegitimately), they would take over the White House.
   2514. dlf Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:05 PM (#5594140)
Silly little question for a slow Sunday night. Right now, every U.S. Vice President who served after Mondale succeeded Rockefeller is still alive. Question: have we ever had such a long period of living former VPs or so many such former office holders?
   2515. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:16 PM (#5594144)
Thad Cochrane happens to be a Republican. Anyone who replaces him will be a Republican. I don't know why obviously unfit people are allowed to serve like this.

In fairness to Cochran, he's coming off a recent hospitalization & surgery. Maybe he came back too quickly, but it's not all that clear that he won't improve. In any event, it's probably not a good idea to start a new Senate term that ends at 80+; 6 years is a long time, you can be up to the job at the start & hanging on toward the end. Strom Thurmond & Bob Byrd both went one term too long. Ultimately, it's up to the voters, but retiring by 75 seems like the better practice.
   2516. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:17 PM (#5594146)
But some legal experts challenged Langhofer’s charge that anything improper occurred.

Randall Eliason, a former federal prosecutor who teaches white collar crime at George Washington University Law School, said it was not at all surprising that Mueller’s team sought Trump transition emails. “It would be almost prosecutorial misconduct for them not to,” he said. He said it was also not surprising that Mueller would ask GSA for emails sent using government accounts.

“It’s not your personal email. If it ends in .gov, you don’t have any expectation of privacy,” he said.
With respect to the emails, there are two separate issues:

(1) Were they obtained legally?
(2) What about privileged emails?

The media (and SBB) aren't smart enough to understand any of this stuff, so they keep conflating the two. But even Langkofer doesn't claim that the emails were obtained illegally, although he crafted his letter in such a way that the media leaped to that conclusion. The first question pertains to whether there was a search warrant or subpoena or whether a warrant/subpoena were needed at all. The second question pertains to whether they can/should look at all the emails and what they can do with those emails.

To give an analogy, let's suppose you're suspected of, say, running an illegal online gambling operation. So the FBI obtains a warrant, enters your home, and seizes your computers and hard drives and phones and the like. The FBI was authorized to do so; it did nothing wrong. Assuming -- and it's plausible -- that there are privileged emails on those devices between you and your lawyers, that does not alter the fact that the devices were seized legally. There is no requirement that the FBI first notify you and ask you to voluntarily turn over your computers and let you delete the privileged emails first. It's possible that they would need to handle the emails a certain way, but that has nothing to do with the initial seizure.
   2517. BDC Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:20 PM (#5594147)
every U.S. Vice President who served after Mondale succeeded Rockefeller is still alive. Question: have we ever had such a long period of living former VPs or so many such former office holders?

That makes seven living Vice Presidents, which I think is unprecedented. A few earlier times there had been six, for instance in 1965 (Garner, Wallace, Truman, Nixon, Johnson, and Humphrey).

And there are six living Presidents, also a record, though it's been the case several times before. First when Van Buren, Tyler, Fillmore, Pierce, Buchanan, and Lincoln were all alive in 1861. (There were six living Vice Presidents then too: Van Buren, Tyler, Dallas, Fillmore, Breckenridge, and Hamlin.)

   2518. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:24 PM (#5594149)
2516 speaks to my 2382. Deleting the privileged emails? Who would trust them notto just dump all the damning non privileged ones, too? Only Dancing Monkeys would.
   2519. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:31 PM (#5594151)
It’s a long shot sure, but I’m holding out hope for double impeachment and President Pelosi in 2018.
   2520. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:31 PM (#5594152)
And there are six living Presidents, also a record, though it's been the case several times before. First when Van Buren, Tyler, Fillmore, Pierce, Buchanan, and Lincoln were all alive in 1861. (There were six living Vice Presidents then too: Van Buren, Tyler, Dallas, Fillmore, Breckenridge, and Hamlin.)


For the last year and a half of the Nixon presidency, there were no living ex-presidents. Since then, only 2 of 7 Presidents have died.
   2521. DavidFoss Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:34 PM (#5594153)
There were seven living VP’s from 1993-1994. Nixon, Agnew, Ford, Mondale, GHWBush, Quayle & Gore.

Mondale has the longest retirement in VP history. It will be 37 years next month.
   2522. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:38 PM (#5594155)

Surprised I've beaten Jason to this story: The secret backstory of how Obama let Hezbollah off the hook:
n its determination to secure a nuclear deal with Iran, the Obama administration derailed an ambitious law enforcement campaign targeting drug trafficking by the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah, even as it was funneling cocaine into the United States, according to a POLITICO investigation.
One day we might learn why Obama was so pathetically desperate to do a terrible deal with a Iran that he prioritized it over everything else.
   2523. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:40 PM (#5594156)
Drug smuggling, terrorists, Iran...sounds positively Reaganesque. When will Hussein X learn that his attempts at outreach to Republicans are destined to always fail?
   2524. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:48 PM (#5594159)
Jason posted that to his Facebook and then hit the fainting couch so hard he's been out cold ever since.
   2525. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:49 PM (#5594160)

Dianne Feinstein is whining that the tax reform bill will cap the mortgage interest deduction at $750,000 for new mortgages. Uh, so is the talking point that the tax bill is too generous to the wealthy, or that it's too harsh for people who carry mortgages >$750,000?
   2526. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 09:58 PM (#5594161)

Apparently Congress isn't buying this latest silliness from Trump: Trey Gowdy released a statement in response to Langkofer's saying, in essence, "If you think Mueller did something wrong, talk to a judge, not to us."
   2527. BDC Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:08 PM (#5594166)
Uh, so is the talking point that the tax bill is too generous to the wealthy, or that it's too harsh for people who carry mortgages >$750,000?

Well, Feinstein is from San Francisco, where $750K is not much of a mortgage these days.
   2528. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:15 PM (#5594168)
Any other alternative simply means you don't take Trump's contempt for the truth seriously. You're saying "I know Trump is a world class liar on a scale that no previous president has been----BUT SO WHAT?"


You're trying to excuse the lies of other presidents on the basis that Trump does it more; that doesn't fly.

Christopher Hitchens was so enthused about the Clintons' penchant for truth telling that he wrote a book about them entitled "No One Left To Lie To."

(But apparently Hitchens was wrong. There was indeed one person left for them to lie to: Andy.)
   2529. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:18 PM (#5594170)
Well, Feinstein is from San Francisco, where $750K is not much of a mortgage these days.

That doesn't mean us folks in flyover country should be subsidizing their NIMBYism with higher-density housing.
   2530. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:19 PM (#5594172)
every U.S. Vice President who served after Mondale succeeded Rockefeller is still alive.

And with luck, none of them will leave us the way Rockefeller did.

As the story went: "How did Nelson Rockefeller die? Low blood pressure: 70 over 25."
   2531. tshipman Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:20 PM (#5594173)
Well, Feinstein is from San Francisco, where $750K is not much of a mortgage these days.


Indeed, it is the amount of my mortgage :(
   2532. Jay Z Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:27 PM (#5594174)
Think of a less extreme example. The Vice President -- let's call him "Spiro Agnew" -- resigns. If Democrats control Congress they have an incentive to slow walk his replacement, knowing that if Nixon is removed from office (legitimately or illegitimately), they would take over the White House.


But with your way, there's no firewall. It's easier to have a corrupt Administration than a corrupt Congress, and it's harder to replace the Adminstration. Suppose in hypothetical 1941, the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor, we find out Wilkie and his administration were in league with the Japanese. Assume 25th amendment is in place at the time. Impeach Wilkie, McNary takes over, nominates another fellow traveler for new veep, Congress is duty bound to rubber stamp the appointment. Then McNary is impeached, same thing, over and over and over. USA is bound to a corrupt administration no matter what is discovered. I would rather have a break in the chain of command. Safety comes first.
   2533. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:30 PM (#5594175)
Any other alternative simply means you don't take Trump's contempt for the truth seriously. You're saying "I know Trump is a world class liar on a scale that no previous president has been----BUT SO WHAT?"

You're trying to excuse the lies of other presidents on the basis that Trump does it more; that doesn't fly.


Who's excusing what? If all you're saying is like all sane people, I think some lies are more egregious than others, then guilty I plead.

But again, every time you get confronted with new evidence of Trump's complete contempt for the concept of objective facts, you label it as a brilliant piece of political performance art, with not a hint of disapprobation. Thank God you're becoming part of an ever-dwindling minority.
   2534. Zonk did it for the children of Russia Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:39 PM (#5594176)
I don't understand why people bother to differentiate between Neifi Perez and Alex Rodriguez; they both made outs.
   2535. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:40 PM (#5594177)
@kasparov63:
Since the start of his campaign, Trump has dedicated himself to attacking defining American institutions: electoral system, free press, separation of powers, law enforcement.

Every one of these moves has been under the cover of the autocratic attack on the objective truth. Lying constantly while attacking his targets for lying, for "fake news", for treasonous behavior.

This method has served another end, perhaps the greater goal, of splitting the US even more deeply, a division that makes recovery from other attacks much harder.

The escalation of rhetoric to dictatorial extremes has a numbing effect. Terms like "enemies of the people", "coup" and "treason". When actual enemies, real treason, are exposed, they've already been used up, discredited.

It also requires stronger doses each time to achieve the same impact, the distraction, the clicks, the outrage. The media reaction of amplifying each time more than the last makes it worse.

Democratic govt is based on institutions. If someone is attacking those institutions instead of strengthening them, it's time to pick a side. Rule of law or by strongman? Rule of institutions or of tribe? The history of making the wrong choice here is clear.

We chose wrong and failed democracy in Russia. We failed by choosing a man, even a decent man, Yeltsin, over strong democratic institutions. We paid for it with Putin, and are still paying for it, as is everyone else.

Even if you like Trump, or tolerate him for what you think he can do for you or your cause, you are choosing against those American institutions. If you think they are broken, fix them, don't help Trump destroy them. Choose.
   2536. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:46 PM (#5594179)
For those who didn't click on HWA's link, the above series of tweets was written by the chess champion and long time human rights activist, Garry Kasparov.
   2537. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 17, 2017 at 10:51 PM (#5594180)
But again, every time you get confronted with new evidence of Trump's complete contempt for the concept of objective facts, you label it as a brilliant piece of political performance art, with not a hint of disapprobation.


Huh? I granted immediately that Trump is much worse than everyone else. I just thought your trumpeting of the "18 lies in 8 years" study was deranged.
   2538. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: December 17, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5594182)
#### you Ray. Sure he's a worse liar but YOU DON'T CARE YAWN or whatever obnoxious bull #### you spew. Show us where you disapprove of Trump. You can't because you don't. What, me worry? Right, Ray? Dance, Monkey, dance.
   2539. McCoy Posted: December 17, 2017 at 11:09 PM (#5594184)
Back home. Saw some construction on both sides of the border but it was late at night so there really wasn't any traffic on the road nor cops. Did the whole trip in 6 hours flat with one stop for dinner and to get lost on a backroad in and around tupelo. Apparently Google maps doesn't work real well in rural Mississippi. Drive a rental Ford fusion and the darn thing still has 65 miles left in the tank. Plus I opted for the rental company to refill the tank so I save about 20 cents a gallon when they refill it.
   2540. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 18, 2017 at 12:32 AM (#5594193)
First there were the attacks on Judge Willett's harmless pro-bacon tweet, and now even a poor college kid is the victim of the left's relentless War On Bacon:
CNN political commentator Hilary Rosen accused a Georgetown student of anti-semitism and bigotry because he wore a bacon-themed onesie to a basketball game. The Georgetown Hoyas basketball team played the Syracuse Orange at Verizon Center on Saturday, and Rosen was apparently on the lookout for anything she could deem offensive.

“Look at the guy in the ‘bacon suit,'” Rosen tweeted with a photo of the Georgetown student section. “This is a Georgetown #Hoyas fans anti-Semitic smear to the Syracuse team.”
. . .
The student in the suit, junior Michael Bakan, told The Daily Caller he was shocked when friends started sending him screenshots of the tweet. He explained that the suit was a joke about his last name, which is pronounced “bacon.”

“At first I thought it was a joke,” Bakan said of Rosen’s accusation. “The real way [my last name] is pronounced is bacon, and that was the impetus behind the costume. I’ve worn it to three games now.”
. . .
Rosen finally deleted the tweets but only after over a hundred people called her out for her baseless accusation of anti-semitism.

Photos of the "offending" clothing at link.
   2541. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 12:45 AM (#5594198)
CNN is just embarrassing themselves.
   2542. PreservedFish Posted: December 18, 2017 at 06:13 AM (#5594206)
Who is Hilary Rosen? That's insane.
   2543. PreservedFish Posted: December 18, 2017 at 06:18 AM (#5594207)
One of my good friends has made it a life mission to de-Kosherize as many of his Jewish friends as possible. He has a running list of people that he's badgered enough to take their first taste of bacon, or even, if they had a really conservative upbringing, their first taste of a cheeseburger.
   2544. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 07:31 AM (#5594211)
One of my good friends has made it a life mission to de-Kosherize as many of his Jewish friends as possible. He has a running list of people that he's badgered enough to take their first taste of bacon, or even, if they had a really conservative upbringing, their first taste of a cheeseburger.
A rabbi and a priest find themselves sitting next to each other one day. They chat for a while, and then at one point, the priest leans over and says to the rabbi, "I know it's against your religion, but just between you and me, tell me, honestly, have you ever tried bacon?" The rabbi looks a bit sheepish and says "Yes, once when I was young, I gave into temptation and I had some bacon." After talking for a while longer, the rabbi leans over and says, "I know it's against your religion, but just between you and me, tell me, honestly, have you ever tried sex?" The priest looks embarrassed and says "I too, in my youth, gave into temptation." The rabbi replies, "Heck of a lot better than bacon, isn't it?"
   2545. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 18, 2017 at 07:33 AM (#5594212)
My best friend in high school was Jewish, from a non-observant family. I was eating a hamburger at their house, and his mom asked me what I wanted to drink. "Just some milk," I said. I didn't know a single thing about keeping kosher, and as noted, they were an irreligious family. But their instinctive physical reactions were so strong that I realized I'd given a bad answer. "Or water, or soda, whatever," I added, but NO. I was a guest in their home, and I would get the drink I wanted. And thus I washed my burger down with milk while they all spent the rest of the meal cringing and staring at me as if I were the sideshow geek biting off the heads of live mice. Which was fair enough.
   2546. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 18, 2017 at 07:58 AM (#5594214)
But again, every time you get confronted with new evidence of Trump's complete contempt for the concept of objective facts, you label it as a brilliant piece of political performance art, with not a hint of disapprobation.

Huh? I granted immediately that Trump is much worse than everyone else. I just thought your trumpeting of the "18 lies in 8 years" study was deranged.


1. You've described Trump's lying as an act of Performance Art Genius so many times over the past two years that nobody could possibly have kept count.

2. Now you say that Trump is much worse than anyone else, but both in the past and in the present you've refuse to admit that there's a qualitative distinction between his lying and that of previous presidents, or that there was a qualitative distinction between Trump and his principal opponent in last year's election. Or if you have, you didn't see it as sufficient reason to advocate voting for that principal opponent.

Again, your reaction to Trump is at best, "Yes, everything you say about Trump is true, but so what? Why should I care?" It's little different than the same sort of rationale given by many of the people who voted for Roy Moore,** and it's driven by the same hatred of the only rational alternative.

** Even though in that particular case you said you would've voted for Jones.
   2547. Lassus Posted: December 18, 2017 at 08:01 AM (#5594215)
“This is a Georgetown #Hoyas fans anti-Semitic smear to the Syracuse team.”

Even more batshit is the alleged target of the smear. Syracuse basketball?
   2548. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 18, 2017 at 08:04 AM (#5594216)
Wasn't there a Seinfeld episode where George paused in the middle of sex to grab a cheeseburger, and his girlfriend was so offended by his violation of Kosher protocol that she kicked him out of the bed?

Or something like that. (smile)
   2549. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 18, 2017 at 08:16 AM (#5594217)
“This is a Georgetown #Hoyas fans anti-Semitic smear to the Syracuse team.”

Even more batshit is the alleged target of the smear. Syracuse basketball?



You've never heard of the Jaffa orange?
   2550. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 08:26 AM (#5594219)

Who is Hilary Rosen? That's insane.

Is there a reason why Syracuse would be the target of anti-Semitism? (Based on names alone, there's one guy on the SU roster who might be Jewish, but he hasn't played in a game this season.)
   2551. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 18, 2017 at 08:30 AM (#5594221)
Not sure how, but I’m pretty certain Jason thinks the bacon suit guy was an Obama plot to sell nukes to Iran.
   2552. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 18, 2017 at 08:34 AM (#5594222)
International Business Times:
Donald Trump And GOP Leaders Could Be Enriched By Last Minute Tax Break Inserted Into Final Bill

Sen. John Cornyn of Texas, the majority whip, on Sunday said a tax provision, which could personally enrich key Republican lawmakers, was added to the final tax bill as part of an effort to “cobble together the votes we needed to get this bill passed.”

Cornyn was pressed about the provision on ABC’s "This Week," after an International Business Times investigation showed that Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee suddenly switched his vote to “yes” after GOP leaders added the provision, which could boost Corker’s real estate income. A top Democratic senator, Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, responded to Cornyn’s explanation by saying the language put into the bill also “would be a windfall to Donald Trump.”

As IBT first reported, the provision potentially enriching Corker, Trump and a handful of other top Republican lawmakers, was not part of the House- or Senate-passed bill, but was added by GOP lawmakers to the final bill, which was publicly released on Friday afternoon. Corker, who is not seeking re-election and is considered a crucial swing vote due to his criticism of President Trump, suddenly said he would support the final bill. He initially voted against the original bill in the Senate, which did not have the provision.

Corker subsequently asserted to IBT that he did not know about the provision being added to the final bill, and he also declared he has not even read the tax bill he announced he is voting for.

The provision at issue would provide a special tax deduction on income made from so-called “pass through” entities, like real estate LLCs. The specific language would provide the lucrative tax deduction for such entities, even when they employ few or no employees -- a structure that tax experts say is designed to give a tax break to real estate moguls. ...Cornyn said the criticism of the provision was unfair, declaring: “Picking out one piece in a 1,000-page bill and saying, 'well, this is going to benefit somebody' — I just think that takes the whole bill out of context.”

...[George] Stephanopoulos pressed Cornyn, noting that “this provision wasn't included in either the House or the Senate bill and apparently was added at the last minute. Why was that done? Why was it necessary to include that provision?” Cornyn responded: “Well, we were working very hard. It was a very intense process. As I said, the Democrats refused to participate. And what we've tried to do is cobble together the votes we needed to get this bill passed.” Asked specifically if it was added for Corker, Cornyn said: “Well, the particular provision you're talking about, honestly, is just one piece of a 1,000-page bill which is going to grow the American economy.”
   2553. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 18, 2017 at 09:08 AM (#5594231)
The Guardian: Trump will drop climate change from US National Security Strategy:
The Trump administration will drop climate change from a list of global threats in a new National Security Strategy the president is due to unveil on Monday. ...That stance represents a sharp change from the Obama administration’s NSS, which placed climate change as one of the main dangers facing the nation and made building international consensus on containing global warming a national security priority.

White House officials said on Sunday the Trump NSS was the culmination of 11 months of collaboration between all the leading security, foreign policy and economic agencies of government. The exclusion of climate change as a national security threat appears however to conflict with views previously expressed by the defense secretary, James Mattis.

The Federalist website, which first reported that Trump would drop climate change from the NSS, quoted the draft document as suggesting the Trump administration would actively oppose efforts to reduce the burning of oil, gas and coal for energy. “US leadership is indispensable to countering an anti-growth energy agenda that is detrimental to US economic and energy security interests,” the website quoted the document as saying.

...In unpublished testimony provided to Congress after his confirmation hearings in January, Mattis said the US military had to consider how the thawing Arctic and drought in global flashpoints would pose present and future challenges. “Climate change is impacting stability in areas of the world where our troops are operating today,” Mattis said in written answers to questions posed after the public hearing by Democratic members of the committee. Mattis and the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson are reported to have argued against leaving the Paris climate agreement.
   2554. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2017 at 09:16 AM (#5594234)
Is there a reason why Syracuse would be the target of anti-Semitism?

The university itself has a high percentage of Jewish students, which is the only thing I can figure.

I've never heard of Hilary Rosen, but she appears a little unhinged.
   2555. Traderdave Posted: December 18, 2017 at 09:31 AM (#5594238)
The following is a self aggrandizing post about Jews & bacon:

I started curing & smoking my own bacon about a decade ago. I only occasionally eat it, I started it mostly because my wife is a bacon freak. She's also Jewish on paper, though completely non observant.

After a couple of years I started ramping up production & giving away packs of it to friends and neighbors around the holidays. People loved it, it is vastly superior to any store bought bacon. I tweaked the recipe occasionally, until a few years ago a Jewish neighbor (who happens to be smokin' H-O-T) asked me if I had any to spare -- the day before Yom Kippur.

At that point, I stopped tweaking the recipe. Perfection had been reached.


   2556. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 18, 2017 at 09:38 AM (#5594239)
Daily Beast:
The Republican Party Faces a Roy Moore-Style Humiliation in Virginia

Primary campaigns can be testy, messy affairs. But few, if any, begin with one candidate accusing his opponent of having dealings with the Muslim Brotherhood and that opponent responding by saying his accuser was “off his meds.” Such was the beginning of what promises to be an outrageous GOP Senate primary in Virginia, one that Republicans worry will further harm their national brand. ...Virginia is hardly a similarly Republican-leaning state. And none of the candidates running for the nomination there have quite the same amount of baggage as [Roy] Moore, who was accused of sexually preying on teenagers.

...E.W. Jackson, a conservative pastor with a history of controversial remarks announced that he would be challenging Corey Stewart, former gubernatorial candidate and Trump acolyte, for the Republican primary which is roughly six months away. Jackson...has said...that people who want to be referred to by gender-neutral pronouns indicate that they are possessed by “multiple demons” and that gay and lesbian citizens are “frankly very sick people psychologically, mentally and emotionally,” a comment for which he has recently expressed regret. He has also said that former President Barack Obama “clearly has Muslim sensibilities”—implying, of course, that that was a bad thing—and that Planned Parenthood “has been far more lethal to black lives than the KKK ever was.”

Stewart, meanwhile, is closely aligned with...Steve Bannon, and helped shape a campaign on the preservation of Confederate monuments in Virginia, despite hailing from Minnesota. In 2017, he launched an insurgent gubernatorial bid and almost won the nomination during which he referred to his opponent as a “cuckservative.” Stewart was fired from the Trump campaign for, as he put it, standing up against “establishment pukes.” ...During his brief stint supporting...Roy Moore, Stewart revived unfounded claims made by Trump that Obama’s birth certificate is fraudulent.

The two are vying for the right to square off (in all likelihood) against Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA), who will be running for re-election with high approval ratings and in a state where Democrats won sweeping victories just a month ago. Political observers say they wouldn’t be surprised if the national Republican Party avoided the contest altogether.

“Republicans now have a struggle just to keep their majority” in the Virginia statehouse, said Larry Sabato, director of [UVA's] Center for Politics. “They’re going to have to focus whatever money they have on probably half of the 10 Democrats [in the U.S. Senate] who come from states that Trump carried. They can’t be lavishing $20 million on a long shot race in Virginia. They wasted so much money on [Republican gubernatorial candidate Ed] Gillespie to get blown out of the water and lose everything.”

Hoping to avoid this outcome, both local and national Republicans are frantically trying to recruit or prop up any other breathing human to run as an alternative to Jackson and Stewart.

...John Fredericks, a [Virginia] conservative radio host...predicted that the odds of beating Kaine are about 15 percent for any Republican who makes it through the primary process. He also argued that elected officials would all but avoid Jackson or Stewart so as to ensure that they don’t further endanger down-ticket congressional Republicans who face their own tough campaigns statewide next year—specifically Rep. Barbara Comstock (R-VA), whose district straddles northern portions of the state that are trending Democratic. “I think the Republicans in Virginia are on their way to losing yet another statewide race,” Fredericks predicted. “That would be 11 in a row. Now you become the Cleveland Browns of politics. They’ve got to find a methodology to win a race statewide.”

Republicans in the commonwealth are deeply aware of the demographic trends which make a statewide win such a tough challenge for the GOP. And putting up any candidates with limited appeal who align themselves with the deeply unpopular Trump administration is essentially a death wish. “I think Virginia is blue as long as Trump is around,” [said] J. Tucker Martin, a Republican communications consultant. ...“I think we’re a purple state without Trump. Until he goes, this environment is just too tough.”
   2557. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 18, 2017 at 09:51 AM (#5594242)
You think it is bad in Virginia for the GOP (and to be sure it is), but how can they be having a hard time finding a Senate candidate in Trump country?

On Trump turf, GOP still seeks North Dakota Senate candidate

While established Republicans and business leaders in other states Trump carried are running to topple Democratic senators, the GOP is struggling to land a big name in North Dakota to run against Democratic Sen. Heidi Heitkamp in 2018.

The slow start has raised some worries that the GOP is ceding the early advantage to the well-funded Heitkamp in a place seemingly ripe for Republicans’ quest to expand their majority yet surprisingly central to Democrats’ effort to hold them off. She is one of 10 Democrats seeking re-election next year in a state the president carried.

“I’m not sure that our party fully grasps or understands the magnitude of a campaign against Heidi Heitkamp,” said former Gov. Ed Schafer, a Republican. “We’re acting like we’re overly confident of a win.”


I am OK with the obscure potato farmer from the remote town being the GOP nominee.

EDIT: I submitted a new thread - with a 100% guaranteed baseball connection even Ray can find. So keep your eyes out for it.
   2558. dlf Posted: December 18, 2017 at 09:57 AM (#5594243)
#2555 - How about posting the recipe?
   2559. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:03 AM (#5594245)
Reagan-appointed federal judge Alex Kozinski (9th Circuit Court of Appeals) retires immediately amid harassment charges from at least 15 women, while apologizing for "my unusual sense of humor." That sense of humor allegedly included grabbing breasts.
   2560. Traderdave Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:04 AM (#5594246)
#2555 - How about posting the recipe?


If you had a recipe that had hot women abandoning sacred principles, would YOU divulge it?
   2561. Zonk did it for the children of Russia Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5594247)
Following up on 2552 --

Bob Corker DEMANDS to know how the provision that benefits Bob Corker made it into the bill he opposed out of deficit concerns (that were not addressed) but he now supports.

   2562. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:15 AM (#5594249)
Reagan-appointed federal judge Alex Kozinski (9th Circuit Court of Appeals) retires immediately amid harassment charges from at least 15 women, while apologizing for "my unusual sense of humor." That sense of humor allegedly included grabbing breasts.


Somehow this story missed Clapper's highly tuned judicial news and harassment scandal radar.
   2563. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:18 AM (#5594250)
In least shocking news of the month, now that Moore has lost, bunch of Democratic senators arguing that on second thought, they don't think that Franken should resign after all.
   2564. Swoboda is freedom Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:19 AM (#5594252)
That sense of humor allegedly included grabbing breasts.

Was that wrong? If he had known that sort of thing was frowned upon...
   2565. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5594254)
Primary campaigns can be testy, messy affairs. But few, if any, begin with one candidate accusing his opponent of having dealings with the Muslim Brotherhood and that opponent responding by saying his accuser was “off his meds.” Such was the beginning of what promises to be an outrageous GOP Senate primary in Virginia, one that Republicans worry will further harm their national brand. ...Virginia is hardly a similarly Republican-leaning state. And none of the candidates running for the nomination there have quite the same amount of baggage as [Roy] Moore, who was accused of sexually preying on teenagers.

...E.W. Jackson, a conservative pastor with a history of controversial remarks announced that he would be challenging Corey Stewart, former gubernatorial candidate and Trump acolyte, for the Republican primary which is roughly six months away. Jackson...has said...that people who want to be referred to by gender-neutral pronouns indicate that they are possessed by “multiple demons” and that gay and lesbian citizens are “frankly very sick people psychologically, mentally and emotionally,” a comment for which he has recently expressed regret. He has also said that former President Barack Obama “clearly has Muslim sensibilities”—implying, of course, that that was a bad thing—and that Planned Parenthood “has been far more lethal to black lives than the KKK ever was.”

Clapper's take: "Democrats oppose the only African American nominee for the upcoming Virginia Senate race."

Clapper's response: "Once again Andy shamelessly puts words into my mouth. Sad."
   2566. Zonk did it for the children of Russia Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:25 AM (#5594256)
In least shocking news of the month, now that Moore has lost, bunch of Democratic senators arguing that on second thought, they don't think that Franken should resign after all.


A bunch? Or Joe Manchin - who was hardly one of the people calling for his scalp to begin with?

There's a rumor circulating that Pat Leahy privately told Franken he was wrong to call for his resignation, but one guy + a rumor of a private concession hardly constitutes a bunch.
   2567. Zonk did it for the children of Russia Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5594260)
A couple items probably worth reading side-by-side...

First -

Behind the new faux controversy over Mueller getting Trump transition emails is a key and probably too little discussed aspect of the Russia story: Mueller’s team has some of the most accomplished and aggressive prosecutors and legal minds of their generation. They’re facing off against a team of has-beens, 3rd or 4th rate lawyers and in some cases simple incompetents. Why? Because Trump values sycophancy above competence and because none of the top lawyers were willing to work for him.


But also --

But those outbursts are measured against Trump's belief that the investigation will soon wrap up favorably. That rosy picture has buoyed Trump's spirits in recent weeks, leaving him seemingly less frustrated and more even-keeled about the investigation even as Mueller's team landed a guilty plea and the cooperation of one of the President's former top advisers, retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn.

* * *

Trump's legal team has told the President he will likely be cleared of wrongdoing in the coming months, according to a senior White House official and sources who have spoken with Trump. That optimism has left some of the President's friends and advisers worried the deadline could come and go, leaving Trump frustrated and more prone to rash behavior than ever before, including potentially firing Mueller. A number of Trump's allies have warned him that any attempt to fire Mueller could be a fatal blow to his presidency.
Three sources familiar with the President's recent conversations about the investigation said Trump has become convinced that he will receive a letter of exoneration, which would be unusual. One source worried Trump would have a "meltdown" if that doesn't happen.


Thinking he's gonna get a neat little piece of paper "exonerating" him is a totally Trump thing to think -- remember the statement on Comey's firing?

So the hackish babysitters have all convinced Trump that if he doesn't throw any tantrums, he's gonna get a special treat! Real soon! Promise! But you gotta behave!

I'm sure it's all going to work out great for everyone involved....
   2568. BrianBrianson Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5594261)
In least shocking news of the month, now that Moore has lost, bunch of Democratic senators arguing that on second thought, they don't think that Franken should resign after all.


The Democrats rarely turn down an opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot.
   2569. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:33 AM (#5594262)
In least shocking news of the month, now that Moore has lost, bunch of Democratic senators arguing that on second thought, they don't think that Franken should resign after all.


Can we wait until Franken actually doesn't resign?

As a MN voter I am somewhat conflicted by Franken resigning, especially since I am not a fan of Senator to be appointed and think she is - at best - a weak candidate going forward. But still maybe let's see what happens before we get the outrage machine revved up.

Note: I think he should resign, and that the gal who is appointed shouldn't run again. But I think I will be disappointed in at least that last bit.
   2570. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5594264)
the GOP is struggling to land a big name in North Dakota to run against Democratic Sen. Heidi Heitkamp in 2018.


I lived in NoDak for three years in the late 80's- early 90's. It was a strange place politically then. Gov, state house, and US congressional delegation all strongly D, but the state went heavy for R for president. I was there for the 1992 election. Bush won 44-32 over Clinton, but the D won the at-large congressional race 59-41. It was an open seat, no incumbent. It was open because Byron Dorgan, the incumbent ran for the open senate seat, and won by the same margin.
   2571. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5594267)
2567

So the hackish babysitters have all convinced Trump that if he doesn't throw any tantrums, he's gonna get a special treat! Real soon! Promise! But you gotta behave!


So be good, for goodness sake...WHOA! Somebody's comin'...somebody's comin' to town... #GhostbustersGeekout
   2572. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5594269)
Can we wait until Franken actually doesn't resign?


One assumes that every day between his announced pending resignation and his actual resignation will count as a "day he actually doesn't resign." Of course, while Franken should go (as I said literally the day the first harassment allegation/photo was revealed) no one on the GOP side of the ledger gets to whine and moan about slow rolling anything. The party of slow-shivving Merrick Garland and now slow-rolling any seating of Doug Jones can go #### themselves.
   2573. PepTech Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5594274)
This is just great. Now every time Trump says something untrue, Ray will defend it by saying "everyone here and the entire mainstream media has been making ridiculous unhinged claims that Obama only lied 18 times in eight years".

Everyone knows it's a bullshit number, Ray. It's one stupid article in the Times. No one believes it, no one thinks it's an accurate number, its only possible value is in pointing out relative moral scales, and it was posted ONCE by ANDY, for crying out loud. Please, for the love of OPS+, try to refrain from defending every future bit of nonsense from Trump by using this piece.
   2574. Stormy JE Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5594279)
That sound of crickets you hear from the left is in response to this damning story, published yesterday, which makes Russia collusion seem less consequential than two kindergartners sparring over a container of juice:

The secret backstory of how Obama let Hezbollah off the hook:
An ambitious U.S. task force targeting Hezbollah's billion-dollar criminal enterprise ran headlong into the White House's desire for a nuclear deal with Iran.
Read the whole damn thing, then maybe figure out who truly undermined the national security of the United States, as well as those of our allies.
   2575. Zonk did it for the children of Russia Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5594280)
I lived in NoDak for three years in the late 80's- early 90's. It was a strange place politically then. Gov, state house, and US congressional delegation all strongly D, but the state went heavy for R for president. I was there for the 1992 election. Bush won 44-32 over Clinton, but the D won the at-large congressional race 59-41. It was an open seat, no incumbent. It was open because Byron Dorgan, the incumbent ran for the open senate seat, and won by the same margin.


Seems to me that the Dakotas are all about who's got what bench -- with the low population and super-cheap advertising can really skew things.

Frankly, it seems to me that they've shifted red because the national conversation shifted red - before ultimately curdling with Trump.

If I were a big a muckity-muck at the DNC mapping long-term strategy, I'd be dumping truckloads of cash at the state parties in places like ND, SD, MT and perhaps even Wyoming and the like... who knows - while it's been a haven for militia types for better than a generation - maybe even Idaho. Build up a strong state-level bench and it seems to me that within a few cycles, you - too - could be in for some cheap Senate seats. Montana, of course, has been bluer than its neighbors - but that's largely on just having those local trusted and recognizable Democrats (i.e., Schweitzer, Bullock, Tester, etc).

Of course, you've got to trust the state parties to find those right candidates to rapidly rise the ranks - and it's a hard line to straddle... Dumping money at the local parties to produce quantity - but then also trusting that the local parties will separate the wheat from the chaff and provide quality...
   2576. dlf Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:53 AM (#5594281)
Reagan-appointed federal judge Alex Kozinski (9th Circuit Court of Appeals) retires immediately amid harassment charges from at least 15 women, while apologizing for "my unusual sense of humor." That sense of humor allegedly included grabbing breasts.


For what its worth, Kozinski regularly used somewhat off-beat humor in his published opinions including, on occasion, mild sexual innuendo. Those comments would be of similar tenor to our own Tradedave's "If you had a recipe that had hot women abandoning sacred principles, would YOU divulge it?" (Since this is OTP where every comment can be misread, that isn't intended as a defense for the alleged groping.)
   2577. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:54 AM (#5594285)
Because Trump values sycophancy above competence and because none of the top lawyers were willing to work for him.

#onlythebestpeople
   2578. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5594289)
Somehow this story missed Clapper's highly tuned judicial news and harassment scandal radar.

Poor pathetic Sam doesn't even know who first linked to the Kozinski story here? Must not be too bright, or a real a-hole. Actually, both, it would appear.
   2579. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5594290)
The Guardian: Trump will drop climate change from US National Security Strategy:

The Trump administration will drop climate change from a list of global threats in a new National Security Strategy the president is due to unveil on Monday. ...That stance represents a sharp change from the Obama administration’s NSS, which placed climate change as one of the main dangers facing the nation and made building international consensus on containing global warming a national security priority.


Good. As I pointed out at the time, the idea that global warming is a national security issue was one of the lies pushed by the Truth Telling Obama administration and Hillary campaign.
   2580. Stormy JE Posted: December 18, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5594291)
And here's a piece for Andy on his new gal pal...

Jennifer Rubin Is Everything She Hates about Trump Worshippers:
Rubin is not the only example of this president’s remarkable talent for corrupting his detractors as well as his devotees, but she is perhaps the best one. Since Donald Trump burst onto the political scene, Rubin has become precisely what she dislikes in others: a monomaniac and a bore, whose visceral dislike of her opponents has prompted her to drop the keys to her conscience into a well. Since the summer of 2015, the many acolytes of “MAGA!” have agreed to subordinate their true views to whatever expediency is required to sustain Donald Trump’s ego. Out has gone their judgement, and in has come their fealty; where once there were thriving minds, now there are just frayed red hats. During the same period, Jennifer Rubin has done much the same thing. If Trump likes something, Rubin doesn’t. If he does something, she opposes it. If his agenda flits into alignment with hers—as anyone’s is wont to do from time to time—she either ignores it, or finds a way to downplay it. The result is farcical and sad; a comprehensive and self-inflicted airbrushing of the mind. How, I have long wondered, could Trump’s unprincipled acolytes do what they do and still sleep at night? How can Jen Rubin?

If Trump is indeed a tyrant, he is a tyrant of the mind. And how potent is the control he exerts over Rubin’s. So sharp and so sudden are her reversals as to make effective parody impossible. When President Obama agreed to the Paris Climate Accord, Rubin left her readers under no illusions as to the scale of her disapproval. The deal, she proposed, was “ephemeral,” “a piece of paper,” “a group wish,” a “nonsense” that would achieve “nothing.” That the U.S. had been made a party to a covenant so “devoid of substance,” she added, illustrated the “fantasy world” in which the Obama administration lived, and was reflective of Obama’s preference for “phony accomplishments,” his tendency to distract, and his base’s craven willingness to eat up any “bill of goods” they were served. At least it did until President Trump took America out of it, at which point adhering to the position she had theretofore held became a “senseless act,” a “political act,” “a dog whistle to the far right,” and “a snub to ‘elites’” that had been calibrated to please the “climate-change denial, right-wing base that revels in scientific illiteracy” (a base that presumably enjoyed Rubin’s blog until January 20th, 2017). To abandon the “ephemeral” “piece of paper,” Rubin submitted, would “materially damage our credibility and our persuasiveness” and represent conduct unbecoming of “the leader of the free world.” One is left wondering how, exactly, any president is supposed to please her. ...
And after attacking her ping-pong positions on Jerusalem, Cooke adds:
The illustrations are endless. In two years, Rubin has gone from arguing that the “ludicrous,” “absurd” Iran deal “has to go” — and, indeed, that John Kasich was a fool for contending otherwise – to praising those who believe it must remain in place as “reasonable” “experts,” and predicting that even to decertify would put “American credibility” at “risk.” In 2015, she wrote that “if you examine the Iran deal in any detail, you will be horrified as to what is in there.” In 2017, she characterizes this position as the “emotional” “temper tantrum” of an “unhinged president.” A similar metamorphosis has sullied her views on tax cuts, welfare, energy, and gun control (before, after), as well as her attitude toward Jews and anti-intellectuals, which once led her to defend Sarah Palin, but which now leads her to condemn Trump on almost all of the grounds she once dismissed.
   2581. Stormy JE Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:02 AM (#5594292)
Good. As I pointed out at the time, the idea that global warming is a national security issue was one of the lies pushed by the Truth Telling Obama administration and Hillary campaign.
The document also finally drives a stake into the absurd notion, spoken like it was gospel, that peace in the Middle East could only happen if the Israel-Palestine dispute were resolved first.
   2582. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:03 AM (#5594293)
Frankly, it seems to me that they've shifted red because the national conversation shifted red - before ultimately curdling with Trump.


The late 80's - early 90's were the last gasp of the old Humphrey DFL up there. People voted for the D because that's what they did. But for whatever reason, Presidential politics were different. The last time NoDak went blue was 1964, and before that, 1936. Yes, FDR lost the state 2 times. Even Humphrey lost the state in 1968.
   2583. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5594298)
Clapper's take: "Democrats oppose the only African American nominee for the upcoming Virginia Senate race."

Clapper's response: "Once again Andy shamelessly puts words into my mouth. Sad."

Since I have said nothing about the Virginia Senate here, that second part would at least be accurate. Not sure why making up stuff about other people has become such a large part of Andy's modus operandi here of late, he should be able to do better. Or perhaps not.
   2584. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5594299)
Good. As I pointed out at the time, the idea that global warming is a national security issue was one of the lies pushed by the Truth Telling Obama administration and Hillary campaign.


The party of Creationism tends to take a dim view of science in general, going so far as to ban the term "science-based" from various scientific agencies. Their denialism of climate science and the widespread effects it will have are consistent with their overarching beliefs in this regard, so you can't really color me surprised.
   2585. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:11 AM (#5594303)
Good. As I pointed out at the time, the idea that global warming is a national security issue was one of the lies pushed by the Truth Telling Obama administration and Hillary campaign.


If one believes global warming is a hoax, then sure. But even if one believes there's nothing we can do about it, or that we can but it would do more harm than good, it should be a national security concern. Many hundreds of millions of people outside the US and its Western allies live in vulnerable areas. Is chaos and humanitarian crises in Bangladesh or the Philippines a national security concern? Is severe drought in nuclear armed India a national security concern?
   2586. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:12 AM (#5594304)
The document also finally drives a stake into the absurd notion, spoken like it was gospel, that peace in the Middle East could only happen if the Israel-Palestine dispute were resolved first.


I would have thought getting peace in the Middle East would have resolved how to get peace in the Middle East. I guess you have much much much lower standards for that sort of thing than I do.
   2587. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:15 AM (#5594305)
If one believes global warming is a hoax, then sure.


Even then, since the whole rest of the world believes in global warming, our denial of it makes us look like idiots and puts us out of step with the rest of the world. Fortunately soon enough we will have adults in charge of the US again and we can start repairing all the damage caused by these science denying childish morons.
   2588. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:15 AM (#5594306)
The party of Creationism tends to take a dim view of science in general, going so far as to ban the term "science-based" from various scientific agencies.


It's okay if you're a Creationist and fascist so long as you don't say Palestine has a right to exist.
   2589. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5594307)
Jennifer Rubin Is Everything She Hates about Trump Worshippers:

Let me guess: Is this from National Review, Commentary, The Weekly Standard, or The Daily Caller? Have I left out any of your pet sources of news or opinion?

The document also finally drives a stake into the absurd notion, spoken like it was gospel, that peace in the Middle East could only happen if the Israel-Palestine dispute were resolved first.

The truly absurd notion is that peace in the Middle East is ever going to be anything more than a variant of the current stalemate. The starting assumptions of the two sides in the conflict are so radically divergent that it's delusional to think it's ever going to be anything else, no matter what anyone proclaims.
   2590. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5594308)
Well most of historic Palestine would be in Jordan and Syria, do those governments support the rights of Palestine to exist?
   2591. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5594309)
Is chaos and humanitarian crises in Bangladesh or the Philippines a national security concern?


No. Only dirt farmers from Afghanistan are "national security concerns" for Trumpkins.
   2592. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5594311)
Let me guess: Is this from National Review, Commentary, The Weekly Standard, or The Daily Caller? Have I left out any of your pet sources of news or opinion?


RedState and Towhhall.
   2593. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5594313)
The truly absurd notion is that peace in the Middle East is ever going to be anything more than a variant of the current stalemate.


The future is a strange place indeed. I think any proclamation about the future is likely to end up being spectacularly wrong. I mean I do it too, everyone does, but when you do be ready to end up looking foolish.
   2594. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:19 AM (#5594314)
Let me guess: Is this from National Review, Commentary, The Weekly Standard, or The Daily Caller? Have I left out any of your pet sources of news or opinion?


/pol
   2595. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:21 AM (#5594318)

There's a rumor circulating that Pat Leahy privately told Franken he was wrong to call for his resignation, but one guy + a rumor of a private concession hardly constitutes a bunch.
Politico reported that there were 4, though those were the only two named.
   2596. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:24 AM (#5594319)
Primary campaigns can be testy, messy affairs. But few, if any, begin with one candidate accusing his opponent of having dealings with the Muslim Brotherhood and that opponent responding by saying his accuser was “off his meds.” Such was the beginning of what promises to be an outrageous GOP Senate primary in Virginia, one that Republicans worry will further harm their national brand. ...Virginia is hardly a similarly Republican-leaning state. And none of the candidates running for the nomination there have quite the same amount of baggage as [Roy] Moore, who was accused of sexually preying on teenagers.

...E.W. Jackson, a conservative pastor with a history of controversial remarks announced that he would be challenging Corey Stewart, former gubernatorial candidate and Trump acolyte, for the Republican primary which is roughly six months away. Jackson...has said...that people who want to be referred to by gender-neutral pronouns indicate that they are possessed by “multiple demons” and that gay and lesbian citizens are “frankly very sick people psychologically, mentally and emotionally,” a comment for which he has recently expressed regret. He has also said that former President Barack Obama “clearly has Muslim sensibilities”—implying, of course, that that was a bad thing—and that Planned Parenthood “has been far more lethal to black lives than the KKK ever was.
”Clapper's take: "Democrats oppose the only African American nominee for the upcoming Virginia Senate race."

Clapper's response: "Once again Andy shamelessly puts words into my mouth. Sad."


Since I have said nothing about the Virginia Senate here, that second part would at least be accurate. Not sure why making up stuff about other people has become such a large part of Andy's modus operandi here of late, he should be able to do better. Or perhaps not.


Well, given that your response to the aborted filibuster of James Ho's judgeship nomination was this:...
Senate Democrats voted overwhelmingly tonight to filibuster the first Asian-American nominee for the 5th Circuit. All but 3 who voted.

...I'm not sure just how much of a stretch my assumption was about what your position on Jackson might be.



   2597. PepTech Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5594321)
Let me guess: Is this from National Review
Right in one! (heh)
   2598. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:27 AM (#5594322)

now slow-rolling any seating of Doug Jones can go #### themselves.
The senate is not "slow rolling" Jones; he can't be seated until he is formally declared the winner, which doesn't happen until the state certifies the election results. The state has announced it should be done next week. That's typical; when Scott Brown won the special election over Martha Coakley, it took two weeks to seat him.
   2599. Stormy JE Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5594323)
Right in one! (heh)
Concessions accepted. Andy rarely attempts to challenge the substance of what I post. Sad!
   2600. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:32 AM (#5594325)
If one believes global warming is a hoax, then sure. But even if one believes there's nothing we can do about it, or that we can but it would do more harm than good, it should be a national security concern.


No.

"Is global warming a hoax?" and "Is global warming a national security threat?" are two distinct issues.

The answer to both can be no and there's nothing inconsistent or unScience-y about that and the latter being a "no" doesn't mean that the former has to be a "no."

Many hundreds of millions of people outside the US and its Western allies live in vulnerable areas. Is chaos and humanitarian crises in Bangladesh or the Philippines a national security concern?


For the US? No.

Is severe drought in nuclear armed India a national security concern?


No.

But note the sleight of hand here: it's pretended that global warming is the real problem in these areas when in actuality the the real problem is these areas is poverty and poorly functioning governments and societies. No amount of "global warming" will turn the US into a poverty-stricken rioting nation. But it may contribute to the poverty and unrest in these other areas. Why? Because these countries have major problems to begin with.

The other problem with the logic is that global warming takes decades or centuries to make the difference of a pimple on an elephant's ass. Whatever effect Al Gore's mansion has on global warming -- or Americans driving SUVs does -- is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things. There are other countries in the world too, you know; it's not just America's evilness that's to blame, if anything is to blame. But the people who hate America's progress and standing in the world never seem to care about that.
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