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Monday, September 11, 2017

OTP 11 September 2017: Hurricane Irma wreaking havoc on minor league baseball playoffs

There are 18 minor league affiliations that play playoffs every season, and those playoffs all have different formats – some with one wild card, some with split first-half/second-half winners, some with a required 8-10 team playoff grouping. This season, the issues caused by Hurricane Irma will lead to 3 of those 18 championships being cancelled and turned into co-champions.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 11, 2017 at 07:54 AM | 1783 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: minor league baseball, minor leagues, playoffs, politics

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   1701. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:41 AM (#5533605)
Trump hires only the best people, the best, Vol. LXIII:
Trump Lawyers Clash Over How Much to Cooperate With Russia Inquiry

President Trump’s legal team is wrestling with how much to cooperate with the special counsel looking into Russian election interference, an internal debate that led to an angry confrontation last week between two White House lawyers and that could shape the course of the investigation. ...Similar conflicts during the Watergate and Monica S. Lewinsky scandals resulted in court rulings that limited a president’s right to confidentiality.

The debate in Mr. Trump’s West Wing has pitted Donald F. McGahn II, the White House counsel, against Ty Cobb, a lawyer brought in to manage the response to the investigation. Mr. Cobb has argued for turning over as many of the emails and documents requested by the special counsel as possible in hopes of quickly ending the investigation — or at least its focus on Mr. Trump.

Mr. McGahn supports cooperation, but has expressed worry about setting a precedent that would weaken the White House long after Mr. Trump’s tenure is over. He is described as particularly concerned about whether the president will invoke executive or attorney-client privilege to limit how forthcoming Mr. McGahn could be if he himself is interviewed by the special counsel as requested.

The friction escalated in recent days after Mr. Cobb was overheard by a reporter for The New York Times discussing the dispute during a lunchtime conversation at a popular Washington steakhouse. Mr. Cobb was heard talking about a White House lawyer he deemed “a McGahn spy” and saying Mr. McGahn had “a couple documents locked in a safe” that he seemed to suggest he wanted access to. He also mentioned a colleague whom he blamed for “some of these earlier leaks,” and who he said "tried to push Jared out."

...After The Times contacted the White House about the situation, Mr. McGahn privately erupted at Mr. Cobb, according to people informed about the confrontation who asked not to be named describing internal matters. John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff, sharply reprimanded Mr. Cobb for his indiscretion, the people said.

...Not only do Mr. Trump, Mr. Kushner and Mr. McGahn all have lawyers, but so do other senior officials. The uncertainty has grown to the point that White House officials privately express fear that colleagues may be wearing a wire to surreptitiously record conversations for Mr. Mueller.

...The suspicion within the legal team seemed evident in the lunch conversation Mr. Cobb had last week with Mr. Dowd at BLT Steak, not far from the White House and a few doors down from The Times’s office. A reporter who happened to be at the next table heard Mr. Cobb describing varying views of how to respond to Mr. Mueller’s requests for documents.

“The White House counsel’s office is being very conservative with this stuff,” Mr. Cobb told Mr. Dowd. “Our view is we’re not hiding anything.” Referring to Mr. McGahn, he added, “He’s got a couple documents locked in a safe.” Mr. Cobb expressed concern about another White House lawyer he did not name. “I’ve got some reservations about one of them,” Mr. Cobb said. “I think he’s like a McGahn spy.”

While Mr. Cobb advocated turning over documents to Mr. Mueller, he seemed sensitive to the argument that they should not necessarily be provided to congressional committees investigating the Russia matter. “If we give it to Mueller, there is no reason for it to ever get to the Hill,” he said.
   1702. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:24 AM (#5533606)
My son's middle name is that of his uncle the cop. My son has another uncle who's a priest, but that doesn't make me sympathetic to bad behavior by priests

Is molesting alter boys considered to be in the line of duty?
   1703. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:25 AM (#5533607)
Why would you cooperate with a nothingburger? It is the solemn duty of patriotic defenders of our constitution to stand astride the gates of access, bar their arms, and cry out, "NYET!"
   1704. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:54 AM (#5533608)
or was it the pretentious gross-out Darren Aronofsky film "Mother!" which got hit with an "F" grade by the handful of people who turned out on its opening (and second-to-last) weekend


I think Aronovsky is the best director in Hollywood but assuming "mother!" is as bad as rumored, that would make two clunkers in a row for him and that would make me sad.


I plan to see it this week and report back. Aronofsky doesn't always hit the mark, but then he's aiming for something outside of normal Hollywood boudaries.
   1705. BDC Posted: September 18, 2017 at 08:15 AM (#5533611)
considered to be in the line of duty?

The problem is precisely what we consider to an appropriate line of duty. Now, if you actively want people with small knives and toy guns and rocks and nothing at all in their hands uniformly shot dead, that's another story.
   1706. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 18, 2017 at 08:43 AM (#5533615)
I submitted a new week's thread, so watch for it.
   1707. PreservedFish Posted: September 18, 2017 at 11:06 AM (#5533662)
Don't tell me how to live my life
   1708. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 18, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5533665)
Get a hair cut. And a better job. And about those friends of yours ... :)
   1709. Greg K Posted: September 18, 2017 at 11:49 AM (#5533682)
If you ask me to change my life, you had better have a nose piercing:

And she was the kind of girl who you would give up eating meat for
No more salami
No more steak or potatoes
Yeah you would walk on down to the health food store
And buy hummus and tabouli and baba ganoush and ricecakes ricecakes ricecakes
   1710. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5533696)
Pardoning traitors was unheard of until Obama did it for Manning.


I seem to remember G.H.W. Bush pardoning a bunch of people for illegally selling arms to a hostile foreign government in violation of an arms embargo, in order to provide clandestine financial support for terrorists in a third country.
   1711. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5533697)
1513

Paris, Texas and Repo Man are great beyond his contributions, but he shows up briefly but memorably so many memorable movies -- Cool Hand Luke, Two Lane Blacktop, Godfather Part II, Alien, Escape from New York


And a nice role in the underappreciated Kelsey Grammer/Lauren Holly/Rob Schneider comedy Down Periscope...
   1712. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5533700)
I seem to remember G.H.W. Bush pardoning a bunch of people for illegally selling arms to a hostile foreign government in violation of an arms embargo, in order to provide clandestine financial support for terrorists in a third country.


It's okay if a Republican does it.
   1713. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5533701)
I think Aronovsky is the best director in Hollywood but assuming "mother!" is as bad as rumored, that would make two clunkers in a row for him and that would make me sad.


Noah wasn't really my thing, but it made money and got fairly good reviews, so I'm not sure it really counts as a clunker.
   1714. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:26 PM (#5533702)
Pardoning traitors was unheard of until Obama did it for Manning.

I seem to remember G.H.W. Bush pardoning a bunch of people for illegally selling arms to a hostile foreign government in violation of an arms embargo, in order to provide clandestine financial support for terrorists in a third country.

Do you really expect Clapper to respond to that? You notice that Clapper's disappeared from this topic once it was pointed out that he was confusing a pardon with a commutation, and that Manning received the latter, not the former.

   1715. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5533705)
Actually, the reviews for mother! aren't all that bad, either, are they? It seems like it's an art house-type film that's not for everyone, but it's listed as fresh on Rotten Tomatoes and has a 6.8 on the IMDB, which is at least respectable.

Kind of sounds like something Bunuel would have made, along the lines of The Exterminating Angel
   1716. PreservedFish Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5533706)

Noah wasn't really my thing, but it made money and got fairly good reviews, so I'm not sure it really counts as a clunker.


It sure clunked for me. Loved the visuals but the plot was a real woofer.
   1717. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:31 PM (#5533707)
Noah wasn't really my thing, but it made money and got fairly good reviews, so I'm not sure it really counts as a clunker.

It was interesting until the very weird super-villain action scene towards the end, which was about as stock Hollywood as could be imagined. Caught me off-guard for Aronofsky.
   1718. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:32 PM (#5533708)
Do you really expect Clapper to respond to that?


Just figured it should be noted, given how determined some people seem to be to shove Iran-Contra down the memory hole.
   1719. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5533710)
Paris, Texas and Repo Man are great beyond his contributions, but he shows up briefly but memorably so many memorable movies -- Cool Hand Luke, Two Lane Blacktop, Godfather Part II, Alien, Escape from New York

Has anyone ever seen the movie "Where the Lilies Bloom"? Made in 1974, about a family in backwoods North Carolina. Really nice and, of course Stanton gives a nice performance. Early role for Jan Smithers, who went on the WKRP fame as Bailey.
   1720. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:44 PM (#5533717)
"The life of a repo man is always intense."

Don't even know how many times I've watched that one. Much respect for HDS.
   1721. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5533719)
Really nice and, of course Stanton gives a nice performance.


For some reason, I always seem to equate Harry Dean with the late, great Warren Oates. Whether he was playing Dillinger, Sgt. Hulka in a comedy or Muff Potter in a kids movie, Oates always seemed to deliver a terrific, quirky performance, much like HDS.

I guess I pair them up because they both played a lot of "outsider" roles.
   1722. Morty Causa Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:56 PM (#5533725)
Oates--that's another one I don't get the iconic love for. Don't get me wrong. I think they are very good actors. I just don't see them as deserving of cult status.
   1723. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 12:58 PM (#5533728)
Don't even know how many times I've watched that one.

I like to think of every Harry Dean Stanton role as simply the repo man moving through different periods of his life.
   1724. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:04 PM (#5533732)
Oates--that's another one I don't get the iconic love for. Don't get me wrong. I think they are very good actors. I just don't see them as deserving of cult status.


Of course, YMMV. It's all subjective anyway. De gustibus non desputandum est.
   1725. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5533735)
Plate of Shrimp.
   1726. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:27 PM (#5533741)
I think they are very good actors. I just don't see them as deserving of cult status.


Just for that, you're not in the gang anymore.
   1727. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:33 PM (#5533744)
Perros lists Two Lane Blacktop as a "memorable movie". LOL! I read the book when I was about 12. Here's what I remember about it:

The main character, the driver of the hot rod, was called "the Driver". His sidekick, a mechanic, was called "the mechanic". The young woman they picked up hitchhiking was called "the hithchiker".

I'm not sure if both The Driver and the mechanic banged her. I'm pretty sure The Driver did. In the movie the mechanic was played by Warren Oates so i doubt the mechanic banged the hitchhiker in the movie. Maybe he did in the book.

Anyway, from what i remember, the movie was about this apparent underbelly of society where hot rodders trolled the backroads of the rural south looking for other hot rodders to race against, with the winner having the other hot rodder's "pink slip", or title, signed over to them. I guess a successful Driver would have amassed a bunch of hot rods, I don't know.

A memorable line from the book, spoken by the mechanic: "We're going too slow. You're gonna foul the plugs!"

That perros finds this movie "memorable" isn't surprising. It's funny, but not surprising.
   1728. Morty Causa Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:33 PM (#5533745)
Just for that, you're not in the gang anymore.

Gang--no gang. Same ####.
   1729. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:34 PM (#5533748)
Wow, two Warren Oates mentions on this page.
   1730. BDC Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5533749)
I was going to wait for the new thread, but I did watch the initial episode of Ken Burns' Vietnam last night, and it was, as I predicted, pretty standard: quite watchable, a little film-strippy at times, very moving when he interviewed people about their personal experiences.

In fact, all the Burns films would be better if he'd stick to interviews rather than narrated history (and thus to topics where he could do such interviews). But that's expecting him to be as good as Claude Lanzmann or Errol Morris, which is unrealistic.

Two things: I wondered at times last night whether the video I was seeing corresponded to the narration. The lack of source credits for the video bothered me a little. (I don't know how you'd feasibly do such credits on TV, I'm just saying.)

And at one point, somebody characterizing Ho Chi Minh said that c1919, Ho thought of the US as a nation which had never had colonies nor oppressed Asians. I though, Ho hasn't studied much about the Philippines. But it was a minor point. In fact, when Ho was evidently working some with the OSS in 1944-46, the promised and then delivered independence of the Philippines might have been a very positive sign for him.
   1731. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:39 PM (#5533751)
Bivens, IIRC, The Driver and The Mechanic were (surreally) James Taylor (yes, that James Taylor) and one of the Beach Boys (not Mike Love). Warren Oates drove the other car.

I have no idea where my brain stores this crap.
   1732. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:44 PM (#5533755)
Yeah? The book is long gone. I remember it had pictures of Taylor and Oates on it. Makes sense that Oates would be the antagonist. He was ugly, Taylor and the Beach Boy were pretty boys.
   1733. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5533756)
Oates--that's another one I don't get the iconic love for. Don't get me wrong. I think they are very good actors. I just don't see them as deserving of cult status.

Not many guys can die firing a machine gun as well as Oates.

What is amazing to me about Oates was he was only 53 when he died. (51 in Stripes or 41 in The Wild Bunch). He always looked older to me.

William Holden was only 51 when he made Wild Bunch, and 58 when he was in Network. He had a strange career. Good looking young actor, then old real quick. I guess years of drinking and smoking can take a toll on you.
   1734. simon bedford Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:48 PM (#5533759)
In "two lane backdrop" the "mechanic' was played by Dennis Wilson of the beach boys back before drugs and drink did their damage , the driver was played by James Taylor. Warren Oates played the rival driver i think...
   1735. simon bedford Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:49 PM (#5533761)
I owe someone a coke, for the record that film was terrible , neither Wilson or Taylor could act a lick.
   1736. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:50 PM (#5533762)
I was going to wait for the new thread, but I did watch the initial episode of Ken Burns' Vietnam last night

I watched the first hour before The Deuce came on, but FYI it's repeating on at least WETA in DC at 2:00 PM and 3:30 PM today. All 10 episodes will be repeated twice the following afternoons as well as several times in between.
   1737. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:53 PM (#5533764)
RE: Burns' Vietnam, "...begun in good faith by decent people..." as an opening hampers narrative credibility from minute zero.
   1738. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:56 PM (#5533767)
In fact, all the Burns films would be better if he'd stick to interviews rather than narrated history (and thus to topics where he could do such interviews). But that's expecting him to be as good as Claude Lanzmann or Errol Morris, which is unrealistic.

Or Marcel Ophüls. The Sorrow and the Pity is his most renowned work, but The Memory of Justice might be the most memorable war documentary ever. The closest we've ever come to it was Morris' documentary on Robert McNamara, The Fog of War, which was about as honest an approach to the subject as he could have made without becoming needlessly polemical.
   1739. BDC Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:57 PM (#5533768)
Burns' Vietnam, "...begun in good faith by decent people..." as an opening stretches narrative credibility from minute zero

Yeah, I got restive in the opening sequence, which was melodramatic and, as you say, "balanced" to an extent that isn't realistic. But I chalked it up to an attempt to provide some exigence for what followed. The overall content of the first episode is sharply critical of French imperialism and sees the Americans in the 1950s as at best idiots. But we'll have to see where Burns goes from here. At least I'm in for another week.
   1740. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5533769)
RE: Burns' Vietnam, "...begun in good faith by decent people..." as an opening hampers narrative credibility from minute zero.

Otherwise decent people can often be restrained by ideological blinders. It happens all the time.
   1741. PreservedFish Posted: September 18, 2017 at 01:59 PM (#5533770)
What is amazing to me about Oates was he was only 53 when he died. (51 in Stripes or 41 in The Wild Bunch). He always looked older to me.


This phenomenon has been widely noted on this site, with regard to such various men as Earl Weaver and Wilford Brimley. Are there any current famous men that suffer from this affliction? Has it been eradicated?
   1742. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5533772)
William Holden was only 51 when he made Wild Bunch, and 58 when he was in Network. He had a strange career. Good looking young actor, then old real quick.
Speaking of which, how the hell did Richard Dreyfuss go from Curt to Matt Hooper in two years? That confused the hell out of me as a teenager. I refused to believe it was the same guy.
   1743. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5533773)
BTW just before pressing the "record" button a minute ago, I noticed that one of the sponsors of the Burns documentary was David H. Koch. Yes (I assume), that one.
   1744. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:08 PM (#5533777)
You notice that Clapper's disappeared from this topic once it was pointed out that he was confusing a pardon with a commutation, and that Manning received the latter, not the former.

Don't embarrass yourself further, a commutation is just a conditional pardon, eliminating all or part of a criminal sentence. I know well the distinctions, but used the terms "pardon" to encompass several forms of clemency, as is often the case. If you think that usage is incorrect, you must be writing Lettres to the Editor non-stop. Let's look at the original exchange:
ANDY: Given that Pollard is still in prison, Hanssen's in solitary for 23 hours of every day, Ames is serving life without parole, and Walker's been dead for three years, you might want to think of a few better examples to make an otherwise arguable case. At no point after their arrests would any of those above named spies have been able to participate in any kind of outside forum.

ME: Shorter Andy: Pardoning traitors was unheard of until Obama did it for Manning.

The point remains that Manning, unlike Pollard, Hanssen, Ames & Walker, was only able to give a speech at Harvard, because of the Obama pardon, which commuted a 35-year sentence after just ~ 10% had been served. Why you & Obama find Manning worthy of such treatment remains a mystery.
   1745. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:10 PM (#5533778)
Actually, the reviews for mother! aren't all that bad, either, are they? It seems like it's an art house-type film that's not for everyone, but it's listed as fresh on Rotten Tomatoes and has a 6.8 on the IMDB, which is at least respectable.


Tried to watch it on Saturday night, ended up walking out after an hour.

Spoiler Alert, I guess..............

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In fairness I wouldn't say it's bad per se; it depends on your movie genre type. I've basically been done with horror films for many years now, and while I wouldn't quite put this in that category since there's not really any supernatural nonsense going on (at least not in the first hour), still you're on edge the whole movie wondering what evil or uncomfortable thing will happen to JLaw next.

The characters other than JLaw are horrible people, and even with her, at some point you just can't escape the notion that she's dumb for not leaving the situation hours or (with respect to Javier Bardem's character) years earlier. That's the point at which I walked out. I no longer cared what happened to anyone other than her, and with her I felt she was stupid enough for staying, and if she doesn't stay then there's no movie. Which is why she had to stay but not why I had to.

But mainly I'm done with horror movies because the director just jerks your chain constantly throughout the movie, always keeping you on a string where you know you're minutes or seconds away from the next uncomfortable or horrific thing happening or almost happening. Which to me is the director just treating the viewer with disdain. And I don't care for the blood and gore either (which is why I'm done with war movies as well.)

For me the movie got to the point where it would be one freak-out moment for her after the next for the next hour. And really that's not interesting to me, or enjoyable.

I did like Michelle Pfeiffer's performance.
   1746. BDC Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:12 PM (#5533780)
Are there any current famous men that suffer from this affliction?

Matthew McConaughey went from looking ten years younger than he was to ten years older, though of course that was quite deliberate and probably didn't happen as instantly as my not-paying-attention self imagines.
   1747. The Good Face Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:15 PM (#5533782)
This phenomenon has been widely noted on this site, with regard to such various men as Earl Weaver and Wilford Brimley. Are there any current famous men that suffer from this affliction? Has it been eradicated?


None that I can think of in Hollywood, but the sports world still has some. Greg Oden looked 40 when he was 19. Albert Pujols always looked older than his listed age, although for the record I'm convinced that he's as old as he says he is. And although he retired almost 20 years ago, Otis Nixon was a HOF member of the "looks older than he is" club.
   1748. Morty Causa Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5533784)
Don Mossi.
   1749. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:20 PM (#5533785)
Speaking of Dreyfuss, this is Twitter gold.
   1750. Morty Causa Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5533786)
BTW just before pressing the "record" button a minute ago, I noticed that one of the sponsors of the Burns documentary was David H. Koch. Yes (I assume), that one.

I want to say the Kochs, separately or together, sponsor a number of things. I don't know how selective they are, they being what they are and people like Burns being what they are, but I don't think the Burns documentary is an anomaly.
   1751. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:26 PM (#5533787)
Also, fuck Sean Spicer, fuck the Emmys, fuck Stephen Colbert, and fuck the howlers in the audience lapping it up.

The Pope should have fucking spit at him when he finally got his audience.
   1752. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:27 PM (#5533789)
What is amazing to me about Oates was he was only 53 when he died. (51 in Stripes or 41 in The Wild Bunch). He always looked older to me.

This phenomenon has been widely noted on this site, with regard to such various men as Earl Weaver and Wilford Brimley. Are there any current famous men that suffer from this affliction? Has it been eradicated?
Number 10 is 36 years old in this picture. (Although, he's sadly another data point for the affliction being eradicated)
   1753. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5533790)
One of the theaters in Lincoln Center (ballet) is named for David Koch.
   1754. Greg K Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5533791)
Also, #### Sean Spicer, #### the Emmys, #### Stephen Colbert, and #### the howlers in the audience lapping it up.

The Pope should have ####### spit at him when he finally got his audience.

Whoa, I'm guessing there's some google-able material out there to see what caused this reaction?
   1755. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:30 PM (#5533792)
You notice that Clapper's disappeared from this topic once it was pointed out that he was confusing a pardon with a commutation, and that Manning received the latter, not the former.

Don't embarrass yourself further, a commutation is just a conditional pardon, eliminating all or part of a criminal sentence. I know well the distinctions, but used the terms "pardon" to encompass several forms of forms of clemency, as is often the case.


The only person embarrassing himself here is you. You may know the distinctions in the privacy of your thoughts, but you still misleadingly labeled what Obama did a "pardon", which it wasn't, and which he refused to issue, even though he could have.

Let's look at the original exchange
ANDY: Given that Pollard is still in prison,** Hanssen's in solitary for 23 hours of every day, Ames is serving life without parole, and Walker's been dead for three years, you might want to think of a few better examples to make an otherwise arguable case. At no point after their arrests would any of those above named spies have been able to participate in any kind of outside forum.

ME: Shorter Andy: Pardoning traitors was unheard of until Obama did it for Manning.


Yes, let's. But let's also include what my original comment was in response to:

[DAVID] The only reason Manning was invited in the first place is because of the transgender thing. Nobody ever thought of naming Jonathan Pollard or Robert Hanssen as Visiting Fellows at Harvard. Nobody thought that Aldrich Ames or Jonathan Walker had anything interesting to contribute to public discussion.

[ME]Given that Pollard is still in prison,** Hanssen's in solitary for 23 hours of every day, Ames is serving life without parole, and Walker's been dead for three years, you might want to think of a few better examples to make an otherwise arguable case. At no point after their arrests would any of those above named spies have been able to participate in any kind of outside forum.


The point remains that Manning, unlike Pollard, Hanssen, Ames & Walker, was only able to give a speech at Harvard, because of the Obama pardon, which commuted a 35-year sentence after only ~ 10% had been served. Why you & Obama find Manning worthy of such treatment remains a mystery

As you can see by that exchange with David, my point was solely that none of David's examples could have been invited to Harvard, even if Harvard had wanted to invite them.

And as you can further see, nothing I wrote indicated any defense of Obama's "pardon". In fact I specifically stated that aside from the examples he'd used, David had made an "otherwise arguable case." You're so completely blinded by your assumptions about what your opponents believe, you often don't even bother to read what they write. All you did in this case was to parrot Trump's confusion of "pardon" with "commutation", and then double down on your misrepresentation of what I wrote.

** Later amended to incorporate David's correction.
   1756. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5533797)
Also, #### Sean Spicer, #### the Emmys, #### Stephen Colbert, and #### the howlers in the audience lapping it up.

The Pope should have ####### spit at him when he finally got his audience.

Whoa, I'm guessing there's some google-able material out there to see what caused this reaction?

I've never watched the Emmys, but I also had to wonder about this reaction to what I can't believe could have been anything much beyond another occasion of standard issue late night comedy.
   1757. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5533798)
On the other end of "not looking your age" spectrum: Jane Fonda will be 80 in December.
   1758. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5533799)
Whoa, I'm guessing there's some google-able material out there to see what caused this reaction?

Nothing particularly specific. The generally good-humored acceptance of his miserable bald-faced daily lying on behalf of an even more miserable yet cowardly liar. They put him out in front of the Emmy audience for a comedy routine.
   1759. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:38 PM (#5533800)
On the other end of "not looking your age" spectrum: Jane Fonda will be 80 in December.


Lotta work on that stage.
   1760. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:48 PM (#5533806)
All you did in this case was to parrot Trump's confusion of "pardon" with "commutation", and then double down on your misrepresentation of what I wrote.

Not at all. This was your essential point:
At no point after their arrests would any of those above named spies have been able to participate in any kind of outside forum.

I merely stated the obvious - that Manning was only able to do what Pollard, Ames, Hanssen & Walker couldn't, because, unlike his predecessors, Obama commuted his sentence, after but 10% of the 35 years had been served. Andy made the point that none of the other prominent spies had been released early, and then gets argumentative when I merely note that shows that Obama was the outlier here. Must not criticize The Lightbringer. LoL.
   1761. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5533810)
On the other end of "not looking your age" spectrum: Jane Fonda will be 80 in December.


So she's 79 now. Why do people do the "will be X in Y months" thing? Current age can handle this just fine.

And technically, she may not make it to December anyway.

"Just look at Tom Cruise! He'll be 75 in 2037!!"
   1762. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 02:55 PM (#5533813)
1742

Speaking of which, how the hell did Richard Dreyfuss go from Curt to Matt Hooper in two years? That confused the hell out of me as a teenager. I refused to believe it was the same guy.


With a dash of Duddy Kravitz in between...
   1763. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5533816)
None that I can think of in Hollywood, but the sports world still has some. Greg Oden looked 40 when he was 19. Albert Pujols always looked older than his listed age, although for the record I'm convinced that he's as old as he says he is. And although he retired almost 20 years ago, Otis Nixon was a HOF member of the "looks older than he is" club.

My favorite was Richard Castellano. When he was 36, he played the father of the groom in "Lovers and Other Strangers". 2 years later, he was Clemenza in the Godfather.
Bruno Kirby, while playing the young Clemenza in Godfather II, was 35.
   1764. PreservedFish Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:03 PM (#5533817)

So she's 79 now. Why do people do the "will be X in Y months" thing? Current age can handle this just fine.


You know why, right? It's pretty obvious.
   1765. Greg K Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:04 PM (#5533818)
So she's 79 now. Why do people do the "will be X in Y months" thing? Current age can handle this just fine.

I think because it's a round number. "In her 80s" carries heavier meaning than "in her late-70s" even if it's a distinction of a couple months. In other words, Fonda looking like this at 79 and 10 months is one thing, but looking like that at 80? Wow! Sure, they are all just arbitrary, imaginary lines, but it's same logic behind "Ground Pork, $5.99 a pound!"

It might not be rational, but it's how we perceive the world.
   1766. Greg K Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:07 PM (#5533822)
Or in baseball terms, "he has 49 home runs" carries the same basic information about how many home runs a guy has as "he's one home run away from joining the 50 home run club".

But one is also making the claim (or drawing on the assumption) that 50 itself is a meaningful number.
   1767. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5533827)
Are there any current famous men that suffer from this affliction? Has it been eradicated?

Don't know about men, but Lorde, the singer is only 20. Lindsey Lohan is only 31 (Drugs are a hell of a thing)
   1768. The Good Face Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5533828)
My favorite was Richard Castellano. When he was 36, he played the father of the groom in "Lovers and Other Strangers". 2 years later, he was Clemenza in the Godfather.
Bruno Kirby, while playing the young Clemenza in Godfather II, was 35.


And that just reminded me of a current Hollywood example; Richard Grieco is 52 but looks 15 years older. I was shocked how terrible he looked last time I saw him.
   1769. PreservedFish Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:14 PM (#5533829)
A google image search suggests that Grieco has been victimized by a recent bout of plastic surgery, drug abuse, or both. But he doesn't have the Earl Weaver disease, he looked fine for most of his life.
   1770. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5533830)
None that I can think of in Hollywood, but the sports world still has some. Greg Oden looked 40 when he was 19. Albert Pujols always looked older than his listed age, although for the record I'm convinced that he's as old as he says he is. And although he retired almost 20 years ago, Otis Nixon was a HOF member of the "looks older than he is" club.

LeBron James. He looked 30 when he was in high school.
   1771. The Good Face Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:19 PM (#5533831)
A google image search suggests that Grieco has been victimized by a recent bout of plastic surgery, drug abuse, or both. But he doesn't have the Earl Weaver disease, he looked fine for most of his life.


Any reason we're not calling it Sparky Anderson disease? That guy looked 30 years older than he really was since his 30s.
   1772. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:22 PM (#5533833)
The characters other than JLaw are horrible people, and even with her, at some point you just can't escape the notion that she's dumb for not leaving the situation hours or (with respect to Javier Bardem's character) years earlier.


Sounds like every Lars von Trier movie ever. He makes the best movies I can't stop watching and never want to see agaibn.

I no longer cared what happened


Least surprising movie Ray-view ever.
   1773. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:23 PM (#5533834)
LeBron James. He looked 30 when he was in high school.


Where have you gone, Danny Almonte...?
   1774. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5533836)
Sparky Anderson disease magically suspends the person in time forever. So at 35 Sparky looked 65 and then at 75 he looked 65.

Ralph Macchio is young looking.


   1775. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5533838)
By the way, I did not have Tommy Lasorda in the "He'll make it to 90" pool.

He has four days to go.
   1776. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:29 PM (#5533839)
Any reason we're not calling it Sparky Anderson disease?

William Hague. When he became head of he Conservatives in the UK in 1997, he was only 36, but looked at least 10 years older.

Or Steven Miller in the Trump admin. He is only 32.
   1777. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5533843)
Least surprising movie Ray-view ever.


To be fair, I have to give Ray props for watching something outside his comfort zone. He gave it a fair go, so he's allowed to not like it.
   1778. The Good Face Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:35 PM (#5533847)
Sparky Anderson disease magically suspends the person in time forever. So at 35 Sparky looked 65 and then at 75 he looked 65.


I dunno, he looks 100 here. Give him a wizard beard and you've pretty much got baseball Gandalf.
   1779. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:42 PM (#5533849)
Or Steven Miller in the Trump admin. He is only 32.


Miller looks like the love-child of Roy Cohn & Josef Goebbels...
   1780. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:43 PM (#5533850)
The point remains that Manning, unlike Pollard, Hanssen, Ames & Walker, was only able to give a speech at Harvard, because of the Obama pardon, which commuted a 35-year sentence after just ~ 10% had been served.


Forget giving a speech at Harvard - G.W.B. gave Elliott Abrams a White House job on the National Security Council after G.H.W.B. pardoned him for his Reagan-era betrayal of the public trust.

Can you imagine the shitstorm that would have resulted from President Hillary doing the same for Manning?
   1781. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:50 PM (#5533852)


Apparently there's a new thread.
   1782. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5533854)
All you did in this case was to parrot Trump's confusion of "pardon" with "commutation", and then double down on your misrepresentation of what I wrote.

Not at all. This was your essential point:

At no point after their arrests would any of those above named spies have been able to participate in any kind of outside forum.

I merely stated the obvious - that Manning was only able to do what Pollard, Ames, Hanssen & Walker couldn't, because, unlike his predecessors, Obama commuted his sentence,


Rather than continue this for another dozen exchanges, I'll express my gratitude that at least for the time being you've dropped your implication that I was in favor of Manning's commutation,** and that you've finally recognized the difference between a commutation and a pardon. Now maybe you can work on Trump with regard to that last point.

** In truth I never gave that commutation (or Manning himself) more than a passing thought at the time. There's a fine line between whistleblower and traitor, and to figure out which side of that line Manning falls on would take away too much of my attention from the AL East division race. But in any case I certainly don't see him as any sort of a hero.

   1783. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:02 PM (#5533858)
Forget giving a speech at Harvard - G.W.B. gave Elliott Abrams a White House job on the National Security Council after G.H.W.B. pardoned him for his Reagan-era betrayal of the public trust.

Can you imagine the shitstorm that would have resulted from President Hillary doing the same for Manning?

The GOP's 12th and 13th Commandments are (#12) Anything any Republican does that can be explained by saying "I was only fighting Communism"** is automatically given a pass; and (#13) Anything any Democrat does that doesn't dovetail with Bibi Netanyahu's foreign policy wish list is automatically classified as "appeasement".

** Or "terrorism"
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