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Monday, September 11, 2017

OTP 11 September 2017: Hurricane Irma wreaking havoc on minor league baseball playoffs

There are 18 minor league affiliations that play playoffs every season, and those playoffs all have different formats – some with one wild card, some with split first-half/second-half winners, some with a required 8-10 team playoff grouping. This season, the issues caused by Hurricane Irma will lead to 3 of those 18 championships being cancelled and turned into co-champions.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 11, 2017 at 07:54 AM | 1783 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: minor league baseball, minor leagues, playoffs, politics

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   501. BDC Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5530739)
I believe they were also motivated by mercantilist concerns about balance of trade

Well, maybe this is an argument for Trump to tone down his penthouse a little.
   502. Greg K Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5530741)
If Greg K comes by, I would be interested in his take on sumptuary laws, which I have always figured were a way of regulating "what thou gorgeous wearest" in part so that the basest beggars wouldn't feel the comparison quite so keenly (and in turn maybe rise up and do something about it). Though I also think that sumptuary laws were a way of keeping the rising middle classes in their place vis-à-vis the royalty and high nobility who were entitled to gorgeousness. Anyway, Greg would know a lot more.

I think a popular reading is the insecurity of the aristocracy in relation to the rising merchant classes, which you see generally in Europe throughout the modern period.

In more specific cases you can get court politics entering the fray. 17th century England goes through a series of sumptuary laws that have a lot to do with economics. A courtier with pull buys a monopoly on the production of gold threading, and hey, what do you know, we suddenly have laws extending who gets to wear gold threading! Or if certain fabrics or items of clothing are imported sumptuary laws might be passed in order to push fashion towards something that is produced domestically.

Spain offers a fun example. In the early 1620s King Philip pushed for a general reform of court life, part of which was a package of sumptuary laws meant to clamp down on conspicuous consumption, usher in some austerity and discipline. But just as this is happening, Prince Charles of England shows up unannounced to court the King's sister. Priorities change and Philip has to put on a massive show to impress/intimidate his potential brother-in-law (but also potential enemy). So the sumptuary laws are put on the back burner and Madrid has a massive free-for-all months-long festival.

Aside from those reasons, I think you get sumptuary laws because performance of identity (dress being one of the most important ways to do this) is so crucial to the social order.* In a society that was rarely anywhere near as orderly as elites wished it would be, dress was one of the few reliable social cues that provided clarity. Who could wear a sword, or when and where you took your hat off were existential issues.

*SHAMELESS PLUG WARNING: Of course, I would say this, as my most recent publication is about dress, gesture and the performance of political identities.
   503. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5530742)
Losing candidates are in general not very interesting. Goldwater was, I guess, because he became the patron saint of the GOP a cycle or two after he lost. Maybe Al Gore because of what he did after losing.


I thought the thing with Dukakis and turkey carcasses was kind of fun.
   504. Greg K Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5530743)
I once saw two guys who looked pretty poor fighting on the hood of my family's rental car in a Luxembourg parking lot at 6am. When they saw us coming they apologized and walked off together.

"Fighting", eh, Greg? I'm sure that was it. How old were you when you witnessed this?

I suppose for some passion can't help but burst forth violently.
   505. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:21 AM (#5530744)
She also names the hard right's "dedicated propaganda channels" (Fox, Breitbart, Infowars) without acknowledging that her side not only has them in the form of MSNBC, Vox, Kos, HuffPo, but also in the form of the mainstream media.


Such a bullshit equivalency
   506. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5530747)
Young able bodied and yet paradoxically homeless men with black jeans and leather jackets and overzealous facial hair charging their smartphones. It's not working people who need to get a few extra zaps in on their way to work. Like moths to a flame the immediate areas surrounding the charging stations are populated with these vagrants with their leather and backpacks and mangy dogs (*) and packages of junk food littering their areas.


I've always called these sorts Dark Hippies, which I think is a good enough name that it should catch on. There are many more of them on the West coast than the East, probably because the weather is more hobo-friendly. Homelessness is obviously a lifestyle choice for these folks, many of whom must come from middle-class backgrounds, although they are perhaps evidence that a loving family is more important to one's upbringing than wealth. Tough to imagine you'd choose that lifestyle if you'd had an emotionally stable upbringing.
   507. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5530748)
I cannot help but agree with Ray, here.

This should prompt you to re-examine your position. (Note: I didn't say "change".)


I think the notion of Hilary claiming the New York Times was against her is ludicrous on its face. Yes, it's true that Breitbart, Fox, InfoWars, et al. were, of course, stacked up in the other corner. But more people than anticipated bought into those outlets and not the Times' attempt at being ambidextrous.

Remember, you heard it here last: the angry old white guys won...
   508. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5530749)
And of course people who are "living in poverty" have smartphones


Little Lord, have you made any effort to see if that Craig person is still trafficking in cheap, obviously-stolen goods right under your own insular nose? Looks like he's trying to move several hundred iPhones for under $200. And if you aren't a brand-conscious hipster, he's had a big pile of Android-based phones for under $100.

I'm thinking you should call the fuzz. Not only is trafficking in stolen electronics illegal, but there is a moral hazard to letting these Poors have access to modern technology at such affordable rates.

   509. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5530752)
Such a bullshit equivalency


Sure, InfoWars recently ran with a story about NASA's Martian colony populated by child sex slaves, but it's important to remember that Both Sides Do It.
   510. Lassus Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:28 AM (#5530757)
And of course people who are "living in poverty" have smartphones
he's had a big pile of Android-based phones for under $100.


I bought a brand-new LG Phoenix 3 at BestBuy for $70 last month. It wasn't close to the cheapest smartphone.
   511. BDC Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5530758)
Thanks, Greg! Sumptuary laws are more complicated than I had imagined. The idea of performance is clearly crucial. It continues to have a lot to do with perceptions of relative wealth and poverty today, of course. And continues to be extremely complicated - it's not just a clear correlation between extravagance and status.
   512. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5530759)
Sure, InfoWars recently ran with a story about NASA's Martian colony populated by child sex slaves, but it's important to remember that Both Sides Do It.


Sure Sean Hannity ran stories on Seth Rich being murdered by a shadowy cabal of HRC and the DNC, but I heard someone claim Donald Trump is literally the mummified reanimated corpse of Hitler.
   513. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5530760)
500

I mean I get why you want to endlessly talk about it


Well, sure. It's been the high point so far. Like I talk about 1986 a lot...
   514. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:31 AM (#5530761)
I'm all for Alex Jones getting rich off of Infowars et al because he's taking money away from stupid people who suck.
   515. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:35 AM (#5530763)
I assume Galaxies can do a hard restart like iphones, no? I.e., home + power pressed simultaneously?

That sounds like a great idea.

EDIT: Just tried it, and...nope.

Forced restart for an S6 should be volume down and power, held for 10-20 secs.
   516. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:35 AM (#5530764)
514

But...but...but he is a stupid person who sucks! Moral dilemma!
   517. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5530766)
515

Forced restart for an S6 should be volume down and power, held for 10-20 secs.


That's done it!

Thank you FCTBPH!
   518. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5530767)
And of course if you're in poverty and want to get out, a smartphone is probably a very wise thing to buy. If you're homeless - either on the street, or couchsurfing, etc. it's by far the most practical choice for a job finding device. Most practical way to find shelter, deals on food. If you live like a literal cave-man, it's going to take you the same ten thousand years it took actual cavemen to get to where we are today.
   519. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5530768)
The entire point of this thread seems to be never, ever, ever say anything bad about your side.


The only valid point of any political commentary, theory or action, until such time as Donald Trump is no longer soiling the carpets of the Oval Office, is regime change.
   520. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5530769)
And of course if you're in poverty and want to get out, a smartphone is probably a very wise thing to buy.


Don't confuse them with practical facts, man. They have bubbles to maintain.
   521. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5530770)
I thought the thing with Dukakis and turkey carcasses was kind of fun.


My goodness that is a delightfully silly/fun story.

Of course, it immediately reminded me of this.
   522. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5530771)
She also names the hard right's "dedicated propaganda channels" (Fox, Breitbart, Infowars) without acknowledging that her side not only has them in the form of MSNBC, Vox, Kos, HuffPo, but also in the form of the mainstream media.

Such a bullshit equivalency

Bullshit equivalancies are just about all Ray ever has to offer.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the notion of Hilary claiming the New York Times was against her is ludicrous on its face.

Well, her "schizophrenic" charge is silly on its face, because what she's describing presumes that the news and editorial / Op-ed pages are controlled by a single mastermind, which simply isn't true.

But it's also true that both the Times and the Post partnered with the author of Clinton Cash and placed that book's findings on their front pages at a critical moment in the campaign. It's not that much of a stretch to argue that this had more immediate and long range effect on the election** than any number of editorial of Op-ed endorsements, which for the most part were just preaching to the choir.

** Not in creating Trump voters, but in energizing the anti-Clinton base within the anti-Republican base, and later depressing the vote turnout.
   523. dlf Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5530772)
In housing news, as long rumored, DJT has nominated Brian Montgomery to head FHA. Montgomery has already received an endorsement from the Mortgage Brokers Association and other industry trade groups, is well respected generally, and served in the same role for Bush the Younger. But I'm a little leery of bringing back the same person who headed FHA just as the housing industry went to hell a decade ago.
   524. OCF Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:44 AM (#5530773)
A question for historians:

Hurricane names get retired, never to be used again, if the storm should prove sufficiently deadly or damaging. At the end of this hurricane season, the U.S. will ask for the name Harvey to be retired and something like 7 to 9 different countries will ask for the name Irma to be retired.

Can the names of kings or queens be retired in a monarchy? There's no public ruling of course, and no official list. But it is clear that for the British monarchy, the name "John" is a retired name. You're never going to see another British King John. So the question: are there any other retired names for the British monarchy? Or for that matter for any other monarchy, or other institution (such as the papacy)?
   525. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:44 AM (#5530774)
And of course people who are "living in poverty" have smartphones
he's had a big pile of Android-based phones for under $100.

I bought a brand-new LG Phoenix 3 at BestBuy for $70 last month. It wasn't close to the cheapest smartphone.

My smartphone + yearly pay as you go costs combined are less than one weeks rent for me.

If you are poor, unemployed, and looking for a job, you actually need a phone. You aren't getting one, if employers can't call you back. And a smartphone with no contract is vastly cheaper here (in the UK) than monthly payments on a landline. The notion that this is some indication of non-poverty just seems nuts to me. You can have a mobile phone, and still be struggling week to week, to find money for rent or to feed yourself, without it being a sign of poor money management. It may actually be a sign of good money management. As I said, it is the cheapest option for something that is a necessity to actually get you employed.
   526. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5530775)
523

But I'm a little leery of bringing back the same person who headed FHA just as the housing industry went to hell a decade ago.


Well, this way, it's like a controlled experiment: we can all find out whether it was actually his fault that time...
   527. Greg K Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5530776)
And continues to be extremely complicated - it's not just a clear correlation between extravagance and status.

You get quite a bit of that in the 1620s.

On the one hand you have the up and coming Duke of Buckingham, who shoots up from being on the lower end of the gentry in Leicestershire to being the top man in the country by the time he's in his 20s. He was always sure to let everyone know how high he was on the hog, and even his enemies had to admit that he struck quite a figure in his ostentatious outfits.

Meanwhile the Earl of Arundel, from one of the oldest noble families in England*, dressed very simply and eschewed most decoration.

Of course, a lot of what was going on there was ideological and had to do with immediate court politics (old stalwart Elizabethans vs. foppish Jacobean wusses; demure Puritans vs. showy Arminians (subtext: Papists); simple English fashion vs. gaudy French and Spanish trash). But part of it also was the insecurity of new wealth needing to make a show. Though, Arundel's act had its share of insecurity as well as it was in some sense a response to the world changing around him.

*Once, in a heated exchange within the House of Lords Arundel derided his rival by saying that just a mere five generations ago his family had been sheep herders, and so he barely deserved to be sitting among the Peers of the realm.
   528. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5530777)
But it's also true that both the Times and the Post partnered with the author of Clinton Cash and placed that book's findings on their front pages at a critical moment in the campaign.
Nine months before the first primary was a "critical moment in the campaign"?
   529. Greg K Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:46 AM (#5530778)
And of course if you're in poverty and want to get out, a smartphone is probably a very wise thing to buy. If you're homeless - either on the street, or couchsurfing, etc. it's by far the most practical choice for a job finding device. Most practical way to find shelter, deals on food. If you live like a literal cave-man, it's going to take you the same ten thousand years it took actual cavemen to get to where we are today.

Not so much the poverty we're talking about, but from what I understand for refugees/migrants making their way through temporary camps in the Mediterranean a smart phone is perhaps the single most valuable thing they can have with them.
   530. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5530780)
So the question: are there any other retired names for the British monarchy?


If his mom doesn't outlive him, it'll be interesting to see what Chuck does, given the track record of previous Charleses.
   531. Lassus Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5530781)
The entire point of this thread seems to be never, ever, ever say anything bad about your side.

Greg, with respect, this is quite false. People on my side have been saying bad things about Hillary Clinton for a decade.
   532. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5530783)
But it's also true that both the Times and the Post partnered with the author of Clinton Cash and placed that book's findings on their front pages at a critical moment in the campaign.

Nine months before the first primary was a "critical moment in the campaign"?


Of course it was, just as Trump's Mexican "rapists" rant was a critical moment just two months after that. Once a meme gets embedded it's hard to shake off.
   533. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:52 AM (#5530785)
People on my side have been saying bad things about Hillary Clinton for a decade.


Not bad enough. Aren't you willing to even consider the possibility she had Vince Foster murdered in an apartment she owned, and moved his body to Fort Marcy Park in a rolled-up rug? No? Lapdog.
   534. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:52 AM (#5530786)
522

Well, her "schizophrenic" charge is silly on its face, because what she's describing presumes that the news and editorial / Op-ed pages are controlled by a single mastermind, which simply isn't true.


Yes. It's been a long time since "You write the story, I'll provide the war."
   535. Greg K Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:52 AM (#5530788)

Can the names of kings or queens be retired in a monarchy? There's no public ruling of course, and no official list. But it is clear that for the British monarchy, the name "John" is a retired name. You're never going to see another British King John. So the question: are there any other retired names for the British monarchy? Or for that matter for any other monarchy, or other institution (such as the papacy)?

That's an interesting question.

We haven't had a Richard in a long while...but maybe the glory surrounding the Lionhearted is enough to wipe out the stink of Richard III? Probably doesn't enter the calculus much, but the brief reign of Richard Cromwell can't help.

It's interesting we've never had an Arthur. Though Henry VIII's older brother (who died before he could become King) was an Arthur. It's been a long time since we've had a Henry...but while controversial, I don't think Henry VIII is putting people off (not to mention the well-remembered Henry's that came before). Also there is a Henry pretty high in the line of succession right now (though it does not look like he'll be reigning).
   536. Greg K Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5530789)
If his mom doesn't outlive him, it'll be interesting to see what Chuck does, given the track record of previous Charleses.

Yeah Charles is an interesting one.

I can see Charles I putting people off...not one of the greatest to ever play the role.

But Charles II did a fair amount to salvage the name.
   537. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:54 AM (#5530790)
530

...given the track record of previous Charleses.



Hey! Watch it, there, bub...
   538. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5530791)
Greg, with respect, this is quite false. People on my side have been saying bad things about Hillary Clinton for a decade.


Obama and drones. Debbie Wasserman Schultz as the hackiest hack who ever hacked. Democratic protectionist trade policy. Many other examples. I mean sure there are folks here who would NEVER say anything bad about their party, but many of us willingly depart from their party when they have something they feel warrants it.

Of course most of us choose our ideological "partner" based on similarity, so there should be reasonably few departures.
   539. Greg K Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5530792)
Greg, with respect, this is quite false. People on my side have been saying bad things about Hillary Clinton for a decade.

Yeah, I admit that was an example of me getting a bit carried away with the "exacerbated centrist" character I sometimes like to play.

Which is why I try to avoid snark directed at others...I am much more effective at it when directed at myself.
   540. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:56 AM (#5530793)
If you are poor, unemployed, and looking for a job, you actually need a phone.


Yes, that's what the young leathered and bearded up males who have chosen this lifestyle are doing with their phones all day: looking for a job.
   541. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5530794)
540

If you are poor, unemployed, and looking for a job, you actually need a phone.


Yes, that's what the young leathered and bearded up males who have chosen this lifestyle are doing with their phones all day: looking for a job.



And you know they're not because...?
   542. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:02 PM (#5530799)
Yes, that's what the young leathered and bearded up males who have chosen this lifestyle are doing with their phones all day: looking for a job.


If you're poor, why would you waste money on razors? Leather is a pretty good choice if you're sleeping rough, it's quite durable and warm. You can get a leather jacket at the Sally Ann for maybe $25.
   543. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:02 PM (#5530800)
And you know they're not because...?

Because they have beards! And wear leather! The horror! How could people like that even think of looking for a job?!?
   544. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:06 PM (#5530802)
And you know they're not because...?


Because quite clearly it's a lifestyle choice.

   545. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:07 PM (#5530803)
And you know they're not because...?


Nobody knows the inner lives of the Poors better than Little Lord Fauntleray. Just ask him.
   546. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:07 PM (#5530804)
Because if you aren't spending 100% of your time spent awake looking for a job you aren't trying hard enough. Even if you don't have any leads.
   547. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5530805)
Because quite clearly it's a lifestyle choice.

Like being gay.
   548. The Good Face Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:11 PM (#5530807)
You mean the bit where you were projecting to cover for your underlying insecurities?


Not insecure, not insecure, you're the insecure! Keep desperately trying to assuage those feelings of fear and inadequacy by projecting them away.

And then disappeared for twelve hours to lick your wounds, like you always do when someone challenges you?


When I engage you, you whine about me "not having anything better to do with my life". When I'm not paying attention to you, you cry that I've "disappeared". Make up your mind already.

Seriously. If you stop trying to live life like an endless series of archaic dominance rituals, you'll probably be a lot happier.


Seriously, if you learned to communicate openly and honestly with your parents, you'd probably be a lot happier. Or stay afraid of them for the rest of your life, that'll probably be more entertaining for the rest of us. Whatever, your choice.

Make yourself into a person that you're happy being, and the rest will fall into place.


I think I'm going to pass on happiness lectures from the depressed guy who does things he hates because he's scared to communicate with Mommy and Daddy. Instead, I'll find my own joy. I'm having a fun time engaging in this little back and forth with you for example. Are you having much fun? Doesn't look like it, but perhaps your anhedonic affliction is affecting your affect.
   549. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:11 PM (#5530808)
Because quite clearly it's a lifestyle choice.


Indeed, as we established, they could also live like literal cavemen. Cities provide a lot of geese and raccoons one can hunt with just a club, they're so acclimatised to humans. In the woods of Pennsylvania, you could probably survive without much difficulty by scavaging deer hit by cars. Just don't make their hides into jackets if you want Ray's approval, I guess.
   550. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:11 PM (#5530809)
544

And you know they're not because...?

Because quite clearly it's a lifestyle choice.


Really? You think they're choosing to sleep in a piss-stench subway? Or in the horseshit in Central Park? Or to make themselves vulnerable to random physical attack and theft of those very phones and jackets at any moment?

Maybe, but that's not any kind of choice I would make. Maybe that just makes me bourgoise. So be it.
   551. Omineca Greg Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5530810)
Ælfweard, Æthelstan, Eadred, Eadwig, Sweyn Forkbeard, Æthelred, Cnut (HA! not in a billion years!), Harthacnut (even worser!) are all retired.
   552. Covfefe Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5530811)
The great paradox of Ray is the manner in which he can simultaneously be the most dismissive of any aesthetics, lifestyles, leisure, education, entertainment, or employment that he doesn't care for while also being the foremost expert on them.

He's the acrophobic that also happens to be the world's greatest pilot.
   553. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:14 PM (#5530812)
Ray is right, for many or most of these young neo-hobos, it is clearly a lifestyle choice.
   554. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5530813)
But do you really think the book would've been better if it were delayed a few months?

It does seem a bit rushed, and without much substance, judging by the excerpts deemed newsworthy. For all the talk of Hillary "letting her guard down" this time, there aren't any real revelations, other that she is still blaming everyone else for her loss. The book seems like an effort to cash in on Democrats anti-Trump fervor before people lose interest in what she has to say.
   555. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5530815)
The great paradox of Ray is the manner in which he can simultaneously be the most dismissive of any aesthetics, lifestyles, leisure, education, entertainment, or employment that he doesn't care for while also being the foremost expert on them.


He walks past them every day, man. Every. Day. Right there. On the street. Likes dog poop someone didn't pick up.
   556. Lassus Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:16 PM (#5530816)
One gets the idea that TGF frequently tells his mom she's fat, or needs plastic surgery.
   557. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:17 PM (#5530817)
Because if you aren't spending 100% of your time spent awake looking for a job you aren't trying hard enough. Even if you don't have any leads.


People who lose their jobs and are of sound mind don't turn to a state of hardened perpetual homelessness. If they can't pay the rent even after collecting unemployment and downsizing temporarily they get financial assistance from family or friends; or they move in with family or friends temporarily; or they crash on a couch for a couple of weeks. If they don't have those resources available to them they try for other solutions. Absolutely last on the list would be to live on the street and beg for money. But even there, magically turning up all looking the same, with the mangy dog and the leather jacket all tatted and bearded up is quite the coincidence.

Really now, you don't have to defend the indefensible ALL the time. Not all homeless people are forced into the lifestyle, devoid of all other options.
   558. Lassus Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5530820)
Ray is right, for many or most of these young neo-hobos, it is clearly a lifestyle choice.

Ray's speaking about them as if they are the entirety of the homeless population, which is the exact opposite of right.

The hipster homeless that Ray trumpets as THE HOMELESS are a very minor percentage of the actual homeless problem.
   559. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5530821)
Really? You think they're choosing to sleep in a piss-stench subway? Or in the horseshit in Central Park? Or to make themselves vulnerable to random physical attack and theft of those very phones and jackets at any moment?


For this category of homeless people, yes.

Was I unclear?
   560. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5530822)
If I'm reading the references to leather and mangy dogs correctly, Ray is talking about the community of so-called "gutter punks" or "crusties." These people absolutely do not want regular jobs.
   561. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5530823)
People who lose their jobs and are of sound mind don't turn to a state of hardened perpetual homelessness. If they can't pay the rent even after collecting unemployment and downsizing temporarily they get financial assistance from family or friends; or they move in with family or friends temporarily; or they crash on a couch for a couple of weeks. If they don't have those resources available to them they try for other solutions. Absolutely last on the list would be to live on the street and beg for money. But even there, magically turning up all looking the same, with the mangy dog and the leather jacket all tatted and bearded up is quite the coincidence.


I for one would send 100 kids to the sex slave colony on Mars if our overlords would agreed to forcefully house these untoward utes in Ray's apartment.
   562. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:21 PM (#5530824)
Æthelred


I couldn't get my wife on board with even using this for our son's middle name. It's a tough sell.
   563. Omineca Greg Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:22 PM (#5530825)
Their house is made of cardboard,
And the street is where they lay,
Their children beg for money,
and they get through another day.
When they can find a payin' job
They'll find a place to stay.
It's sad to say that people think
They choose to live that way.

Folks think if you're on the street
It's some big happy family.
The drunks, the losers, looney tunes,
And demons in the night.
And when good people lose their home,
Their treated like they want to roam,
But all they ever did was let the payments get behind.
They don't choose to live that way
and you don't chose to change your mind.

There's a certain attitude
Some folks seem to have today,
Who always have good food to eat,
And a decent place to stay.
It really gets me angry,
When I hear those people say,
That homeless folks don't want a home,
They choose to live that way.

Folks think if you're on the street
It's some big happy family.
The drunks, the losers, looney tunes,
And demons in the night.
And when good people lose their home,
Their treated like they want to roam,
But all they ever did was let the payments get behind.
They don't choose to live that way
and you don't chose to change your mind.
Change your mind.

Junior Brown


Seems like we needed some hillbilly perspective here.
   564. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:23 PM (#5530826)
Ray's speaking about them as if they are the entirety of the homeless population, which is the exact opposite of right.


No, I've been quite clear that I'm talking about this one category of homeless people.

The hipster homeless that Ray trumpets as THE HOMELESS are a very minor percentage of the actual homeless problem.


Agreed. But they're the ones I'm talking about here. The mentally ill category of homeless people, who I have great sympathy for, doesn't use the charging stations because they don't have smartphones to plug in because they don't know what day of the week it is.
   565. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:23 PM (#5530827)
People who lose their jobs and are of sound mind don't turn to a state of hardened perpetual homelessness.


Not all homeless people are forced into the lifestyle, devoid of all other options.


Ray, do you even read what you write? Or are you just copy-pasting from a file of talking points?
   566. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5530828)
The hipster homeless that Ray trumpets as THE HOMELESS are a very minor percentage of the actual homeless problem.


And are less of a threat to the republic than Trump voters.
   567. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5530829)
Ray, do you even read what you write? Or are you just copy-pasting from a file of talking points?


What talking points? I've never seen anyone ever comment on these hipster homeless people before.
   568. Lassus Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5530830)
But even there, magically turning up all looking the same, with the mangy dog and the leather jacket all tatted and bearded up is quite the coincidence.

Yes, this is the majority of the ubiquitous homeless population. Ray knows. Ear to the ground. Regular Burke, he is.
   569. Omineca Greg Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5530831)
It's a tough sell
.

Try it again, maybe the first time she just wasn't...wait for it...ready!

Seriously, it's the ligature, nobody's down with the ligature.
   570. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:28 PM (#5530833)
I've never seen anyone ever comment on these hipster homeless people before.


Probably because very few people think they're a real issue to worry about. But hey, you're vanguard man. This is the new "millions of illegals voting" maybe. Your side are generally ####### idiots who'll believe anything.
   571. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:28 PM (#5530834)
Top notch trolling here, Ray. Top notch!
   572. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5530835)
What talking points? I've never seen anyone ever comment on these hipster homeless people before.


It's the most obvious explanation for why you're contradicting yourself within the same paragraph.

Nobody who had other options and wasn't mentally ill would choose to live on the street. [cut] But these people are choosing to live on the streets as a lifestyle!
   573. Lassus Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:31 PM (#5530837)
Æthelred the Unready

A one-act opera by one of my music professors.
   574. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:31 PM (#5530838)
   575. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:32 PM (#5530839)
Everyone's getting really carried away with the RDP bashing here. He complained about a discrete and easily-identifiable group of people that deserve to be complained about.
   576. Traderdave Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:33 PM (#5530840)
The Hipster Homeless are definitely a thing here in the Bay Area. They've been here since forever but the population seemed to explode during the Occupy silliness in 2011 in both Oakland and SF. A good number of them appeared to have stayed since then. I have no numbers, obviously, and agree that they are almost certainly a minority of homeless, but they are increasingly visible.

I've come across a couple of their "villages" that were decked out in REI equipment, with residents surprisingly well attired. The camps usually have a large number of bicycles that burn your fingers if you touch them.
   577. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:38 PM (#5530844)
Everyone's getting really carried away with the RDP bashing here.


There were some very fine people with those hipster hobos. Very. Fine. People.
   578. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:39 PM (#5530845)
Yeah, Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley is almost unwalkable because the crusties (and their pitbulls) are so dense.
   579. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:39 PM (#5530846)
I've come across a couple of their "villages" that were decked out in REI equipment, with residents surprisingly well attired. The camps usually have a large number of bicycles that burn your fingers if you touch them


Why are you against basic boot strap American will to power?
   580. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:46 PM (#5530850)
But even there, magically turning up all looking the same, with the mangy dog and the leather jacket all tatted and bearded up is quite the coincidence.


Yes, this is the majority of the ubiquitous homeless population. Ray knows. Ear to the ground. Regular Burke, he is.


You bigly misread this, Lassus. "Looking the same" was meant to prove that these neo-hobos belong to a cultural movement and that they are not just random sad people really down on their luck.
   581. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:46 PM (#5530851)
Not insecure, not insecure, you're the insecure!


That's actually kind of insightful, in that Trump responds the same way you do when challenged, for exactly the same reasons. He recognizes that he's weak, and is worried that other people will realize it too, so he preemptively lashes out. But that underlying weakness shows up in so many of his mannerisms, from that weird pulling handshake to his ridiculous long ties to his refusal to make eye contact with people who have upset him.

When I engage you, you whine about me "not having anything better to do with my life". When I'm not paying attention to you, you cry that I've "disappeared". Make up your mind already.


If you're deferring to my decision, then take some time to become a fully-realized human being who's comfortable with himself and isn't worried about what other people think of him. In all honesty, that's what I'd prefer - when you try and puff up your back to look big and scary, it makes me sad. You really don't need to live that way if you don't want to.

I think I'm going to pass on happiness lectures from the depressed guy...


See, that's the thing. If you aren't constantly worried about looking ruff and tuff, you can talk about feelings and emotional states in public like a grown-up, and address them in a constructive manner. I'm not being snide - I really think you could benefit from some therapy to try and work out your underlying issues.

If it makes you feel better about the whole thing, you can tell yourself that you're doing it to spite me.

Instead, I'll find my own joy. I'm having a fun time engaging in this little back and forth with you for example. Are you having much fun?


I have a little bit of a sadistic streak that enjoyed pulling your pants down in public on the last page, but I mostly just feel sorry for you. Watching people degrade themselves isn't really my thing.
   582. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:51 PM (#5530855)
That's it. Next time I'm in Boston and I come across one of the hipster homeless I'm kicking him in the balls.
   583. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:52 PM (#5530856)
Yeah, Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley is almost unwalkable because the crusties (and their pitbulls) are so dense.


Any cross street in particular where this is notable? I remember looking up L.A.'s skid row on google street view years ago.
   584. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:52 PM (#5530857)
when you try and puff up your back to look big and scary, it makes me sad


How else is he going to survive those Charlottesville mobs of antifa?!
   585. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:52 PM (#5530858)
That's it. Next time I'm in Boston and I come across one of the hipster homeless I'm kicking him in the balls.


I thought you were one of the hipster homeless when we met outside of Fenway, but you were too clean-shaven.
   586. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5530859)
559

For this category of homeless people, yes.


Well, OK, I guess, but I must repeat:

Maybe, but that's not any kind of choice I would make. Maybe that just makes me bourgoise. So be it.
   587. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5530860)
I thought you were one of the hipster homeless when we met outside of Fenway, but you were too clean-shaven.


Thanks to charity. After the game I blended into the masses and slipped away to Tent City.
   588. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:00 PM (#5530861)
Any cross street in particular where this is notable?

Great question. It looks like google street view rolled through there very early in the morning as only the coffee places are open and the streets are bizarrely empty. Here's the best I could do: Telegraph & Dwight

edit ... now with working link

   589. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:01 PM (#5530863)
Watching people degrade themselves isn't really my thing.


You'd be shocked by the porn that TGF likes.
   590. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:05 PM (#5530864)
t looks like google street view rolled through there very early in the morning as only the coffee places are open and the streets are bizarrely empty. Here's the best I could do: Telegraph & Dwight


I for one am shocked and amazed by the presence of 3-4 "crusties" sitting outside of a coffee shop next to a skateboard vendor. Truly, this is a pressing threat to all that we know and hold sacred. Thank god Ray is on this for us.
   591. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:10 PM (#5530866)
You'd be pissed if you owned that coffee shop.
   592. Omineca Greg Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:10 PM (#5530867)
Everyone's getting really carried away with the RDP bashing here. He complained about a discrete and easily-identifiable group of people that deserve to be complained about.


I don't know. Out of an entire, huge group of people, he found a subset that are annoying (or maybe worse than annoying) So? It doesn't justify his lack of compassion that he displays over and over again. The milkman of human kindness skipped a few deliveries at his house, that's for sure. He thinks the problem is as simple as redefining what poverty is, and then writing off millions of people because they make poor lifestyle decisions. It's a free country (pretty much) and he can think what he wants, but the more people in the world that are like him, the worse it is.

Sorry, I don't know if human suffering is a joke to him, or if he's just completely self-absorbed or what, but it's not a positive attitude towards society.
   593. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5530869)
You'd be pissed if you owned that coffee shop.


If the owners were pissed, they could have those kids rousted up and out in short order.
   594. Lassus Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5530870)
Great question. It looks like google street view rolled through there very early in the morning

When was the last update? I only ask as I randomly looked at my house this morning on streetview and it hasn't been updated for four years.
   595. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:17 PM (#5530872)
Sorry, I don't know if human suffering is a joke to him, or if he's just completely self-absorbed or what, but it's not a positive attitude towards society.

That's a bit unfair. He's got oodles of compassion to ladle on homophobic cake bakers.
   596. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:17 PM (#5530873)
Sorry, I don't know if human suffering is a joke to him, or if he's just completely self-absorbed or what, but it's not a positive attitude towards society.

I'm not going to defend his body of work, Ray drives me up a wall more than anyone here. I just thought it was interesting to track how multiple people looked past his words and made some terrible assumptions. I find it very annoying on this site how people, rather than engage with the actual words on the screen, make lazy assumptions about what someone's point is. Ray, funny enough, is just about the worst at this.
   597. Traderdave Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:19 PM (#5530874)
If the owners were pissed, they could have those kids rousted up and out in short order.


This is Berkeley we're talking about.

(And no, I don't mean that as the standard right wing Bezerkeley meme. I like Berkeley and even tried buying several houses there but got outbid every time.)
   598. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:23 PM (#5530875)
When was the last update? I only ask as I randomly looked at my house this morning on streetview and it hasn't been updated for four years.


That photo was taken within the last year or two, I think. The first place I looked, what used to be an empty storefront frequented by crusties, is now the Mad Monk record and book store. I don't think it had opened yet when I left two years ago.
   599. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5530878)
Even if there are homeless by choice (there must be some percent who are), why should I care?

Like seriously, freedom means people do stuff I think is dumb, and that's OK. If I want to provide safety net programs for the poor (I do), which includes the homeless (yup), the fact that a percentage of those people are such voluntarily doesn't really change the moral calculus much. If they don't want help, then cool. if they do then also cool. And of course those for which it is not voluntary it is even easier.
   600. The Good Face Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5530879)
That's actually kind of insightful, in that Trump responds the same way I do when challenged, for exactly the same reasons. I recognize that I'm weak, and am worried that other people will realize it too, so I preemptively lash out. But that underlying weakness shows up in so many of his mannerisms, from that weird pulling handshake to his ridiculous long ties to his refusal to make eye contact with people who have upset him.


Fixed your post for you.

If you're deferring to my decision, then take some time to become a fully-realized human being who's comfortable with himself and isn't worried about what other people think of him.


That's why you've spent hours furiously defending your bizarre behavior to a bunch of internet strangers. Because you're super comfortable with yourself. Really now, people who are comfortable with themselves don't do stuff they hate because they're afraid to honestly and openly communicate with loved ones. Especially when it would be so easy to fix the problem.

In all honesty, that's what I'd prefer - when you try and puff up your back to look big and scary, it makes me sad. You really don't need to live that way if you don't want to.


This is a good example of what I've been talking about. You think I'm trying to look big and scary because you're scared, so you assume that it's some intentional effort on my part. But it's simply you projecting your fears onto others. And you were sad long before you ever encountered me. Probably because you're afraid of your shadow and so insecure that you have to desperately defend the silliest and most trivial actions on your part. But as you say, you don't have to live that way.

See, that's the thing. If you aren't constantly worried about looking ruff and tuff, you can talk about feelings and emotional states in public like a grown-up, and address them in a constructive manner.


Like using a keyboard and mouse you hate because you're afraid to tell the truth to Mommy and Daddy? That kind of constructive?

I have a little bit of a sadistic streak that enjoyed pulling your pants down in public on the last page


Ah, now the desperate internet little boy cry of, "I pwn3d you!". No, you overreacted to mild teasing and put your insecurity on display in front of everybody. To be fair, that was the entire reason I posted in the first place; I knew you'd never be able to let something like that go, that you'd have to defend yourself so you wouldn't think of yourself as weak. And now here you are, crying about being the victim of bullying. Guess that backfired, huh? Like so many things you touch, a pathetic failure.

Watching people degrade themselves isn't really my thing.


No mirrors in your Mom's basement house, eh?
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