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Monday, September 11, 2017

OTP 11 September 2017: Hurricane Irma wreaking havoc on minor league baseball playoffs

There are 18 minor league affiliations that play playoffs every season, and those playoffs all have different formats – some with one wild card, some with split first-half/second-half winners, some with a required 8-10 team playoff grouping. This season, the issues caused by Hurricane Irma will lead to 3 of those 18 championships being cancelled and turned into co-champions.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 11, 2017 at 07:54 AM | 1783 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: minor league baseball, minor leagues, playoffs, politics

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   601. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:37 PM (#5530880)
White House, Republican leaders plan to reveal tax cut details in two weeks

“We want pro-growth tax reform that will get the economy growing, that will get people back to work, that will give middle-income taxpayers a tax cut, and that will put American businesses in a better competitive playing field so that we keep American businesses in America,” Ryan said at an event hosted by the Associated Press. “That is more important than anything else.”

Ryan, who had spent years blasting Washington policymakers for not doing enough to tackle the deficit and the debt, had earlier pledged a “revenue-neutral” tax bill — one that did not change the amount of anticipated federal income. But the failure of the GOP health-care legislation, which included a nearly $1 trillion revenue cut, has scrambled party leaders’ plans.

The White House released a one-page blueprint in April of the tax law changes it wanted to see, which included slashing the corporate tax rate, simplifying the tax brackets that individuals and families face, and eliminating the estate tax and alternative minimum tax, among other things.


The two week pledge would be more believable if they hadn't claimed "two weeks" for the last dozen or so initiatives. Still, I suppose they might hit their deadline this time. Maybe.
   602. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:39 PM (#5530884)
Housing is very expensive, material things are largely pretty cheap. A smartphone is ~2 days of housing, a leather jacket is ~1 day of housing. Beards are free. Finding housing that'll let for less than a year is pretty tricky in most places. So it's not surprising you have enough money to buy a phone, or a jacket, but not housing. Housing is also a recurring cost - a jacket or a phone will last for many years.
   603. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:45 PM (#5530891)
A rare 2020 Democratic Nomination Poll:
Sanders 28%
Biden 17%
Warren 12%
Zuckerberg 7%
Harris 6%
Gillibrand 3%
Cuomo 3%
Klobuchar 1%
McAuliffe 1%
Not Sure 23%

No Hillary? No WaPo fave (# 3!) Chris Murphy? And where's that Generic guy? He'll be tough to beat.
   604. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:51 PM (#5530894)
I want Eliot Spitzer to get back into the action. Trump's victory inaugurates the post-scandal era.
   605. Morty Causa Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:54 PM (#5530898)
he entire point of this thread seems to be never, ever, ever say anything bad about your side.

There's a lot in what you say. This is the abiding theme on both sides. It is bolstered with its sister contention, "Your side does the same thing. It's worse." It's just like when we were kids: "Mommm! Why can't I? You let Jimmy do it. You like him better than me. Waaahnnn!."
   606. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5530901)
If you divide #603 by their name recognition, it certainly looks like Kamala Harris is very well positioned.

Hickenlooper/Duckworth is a better ticket - it mandates using bigger signs to hold all them letters. More TV time as reporters trip over that mouthfull.
   607. The Good Face Posted: September 13, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5530903)
I want Eliot Spitzer to get back into the action. Trump's victory inaugurates the post-scandal era.


If that's the case, why settle for anything less than Anthony Weiner?
   608. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:00 PM (#5530904)
I'm not going to defend his body of work, Ray drives me up a wall more than anyone here. I just thought it was interesting to track how multiple people looked past his words and made some terrible assumptions. I find it very annoying on this site how people, rather than engage with the actual words on the screen, make lazy assumptions about what someone's point is. Ray, funny enough, is just about the worst at this.


I don't think people made assumptions as much as they just tracked the evolution of the very assumptions Ray presented.

To wit - it started with essentially "poverty is bullshit"... Vlad countered that the statistics show US poverty levels are generally in the same consistent band - certainly fluctuating, with meaningful numbers (afterall, we're talking about percentages of hundreds of millions of people) - but still stands at about 14%.

Then - the usual "but they have smartphones and flat screens!".... none of which really has anything to do with the statistic itself. Again - the poverty rate within the same band predates those things existing. The numbers and the methodology for calculating that rate - consistently used for 50+ years now - were also presented.

And now, we're on to the hipster homeless and their charging stations.

I don't think it's as much making assumptions as it is simply challenging the assumptions presented.
   609. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:04 PM (#5530905)
This is a good example of what I've been talking about. You think I'm trying to look big and scary because you're scared, so you assume that it's some intentional effort on my part.


No, I can tell that you're trying to look big and scary because you're throwing shots in the dark to try and provoke a reaction, and I've seen you do the same thing with other people for years. What is there to be scared of? You're a know-nothing blowhard who's trying to convince me that I don't own the house that I've been making mortgage payments on for the last eight years. Are you going to pull out your electronic dick and wave it around some more, to see whether anyone in the thread lines up and salutes? Are you going to challenge me to a fight by the dumpsters behind the gym?

No, you overreacted to mild teasing and put your insecurity on display in front of everybody. To be fair, that was the entire reason I posted in the first place


The eternal refrain of the bully - "It was just a joke, man! Can't you take a joke?"

Your ego is fragile, so you need to try and save face by pretending that you weren't really publicly shamed. Thus, you say that you weren't trying to play stupid macho dominance games after all, and the joke is really on me for taking the bait and pointing out what you were doing and why. Like I already noted upthread, it's a really obvious and transparent dynamic, and it totally telegraphs every hangup crammed into your anxiety closet. If nobody's ever told you before, it's because they either didn't care enough about you to tip you off that you were showing your ass, or they were too full of vicarious embarrassment on your behalf.

I hope for your own sake that some day, you straighten up and start acting like a man.
   610. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:13 PM (#5530909)
Then - the usual "but they have smartphones and flat screens!".


An argument as old as time, of course, as demonstrated by my "But they have radios!" example from the '30s.
   611. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:20 PM (#5530915)
I want Eliot Spitzer to get back into the action. Trump's victory inaugurates the post-scandal era.


I think the muted response to Ted Cruz masturbating on 9/11 from the same moral scolds that required smelling salts to regain consciousness over a Surgeon General saying masturbation was normal is a good indication of that.
   612. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:21 PM (#5530917)
Kamala Harris is very well positioned.

Is this country really ready to elect a Ugandan savage as President?
   613. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5530919)
Housing is very expensive, material things are largely pretty cheap.


Housing is very cheap. Location, location, location. And roommates.

Now, if you have $0 coming in then it's unaffordable -- but that's true for a stick of gum.
   614. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5530921)
Like seriously, freedom means people do stuff I think is dumb, and that's OK. If I want to provide safety net programs for the poor (I do), which includes the homeless (yup), the fact that a percentage of those people are such voluntarily doesn't really change the moral calculus much. If they don't want help, then cool. if they do then also cool. And of course those for which it is not voluntary it is even easier.


I would argue it really doesn't change the financial calculus, either... I'm playing right into the libertarian/limited government hands here, I suppose --

But from Medicare to Banking/Securities to you name it -- there is always graft, grift, and fraud. No, I don't have a big white paper to link to --- but I'm just saying that I feel this assumption of mine stands on pretty solid ground: If you look at the spends, the recipients, and information we DO have -- and your primary concern is "I don't want my tax dollars wasted on people cheating 'us'", then your beefs with the 'poor' ought to rank far, far, far behind banks, defense contractors, large private hospital groups, etc.

In any case, my bottom line -- and what I primarily object to -- is the undying meme that the 'poor' are mostly shiftless, lazy, grifters living high on the hog. "Reform" over the last 30 years has been almost entirely in the form of punitive measures... or stupid lipstick that has proven time and again to be a waste of money (that gets allocated to the program, but provides no actual benefits) - like the stupid, various drug testing initiatives.

It seems like virtually all of the policy changes in the realm of poverty programs have been weighted towards the punitive and chasing the pennies from the program cheaters.... and people are surprised this isn't effective in regards to actually addressing poverty?
   615. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5530922)
Kamala Harris is very well positioned.

Is this country really ready to elect a Ugandan savage as President?


Amusingly enough, "Kamala the Ugandan Giant" has the real name of Jim Harris. I will assume no relation.
   616. Morty Causa Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5530924)
But Charles II did a fair amount to salvage the name.

That he did. One of my very favorite of the monarchs. He was intelligent, witty, humorous and full of political savvy. He probably should have legitimated one of his sons so that son could have succeeded him, although the prime candidate for that was the Duke of Monmouth, who didn't seem to be even as politic as James. In that way, not thinking enough about an adequate succession, he kind of reminds me of FDR. A dying man, he nevertheless runs for re-election, and is so in denial about the fatalness of his condition that he even completely ignores his vice-president. But, then, none of us wants to think about impending mortality. Maybe that's how the dying make it through the day.
   617. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:25 PM (#5530926)
OOOOk-lahoma, where the Democratic pickups come sweeping down the plain

Tuesday, Sept. 12, turned out to be a lousy night for Republicans.

Democrats just flipped one more seat from red to blue—the second pickup of the night and the sixth Democratic pickup this cycle. (Republicans have yet to pick up a seat from Democrats in a contested election.)

Tuesday night’s victory in Oklahoma not only brings the total number of Democratic pickups to six, but it brings the number of races in which Democrats have outperformed the party’s 2016 presidential results in these same legislative and congressional districts to 26 (out of 35 held since last November).


But tell me more about Democratic Presidential surveys and all about Hillary's new book.
   618. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:25 PM (#5530927)
Housing is very cheap. Location, location, location. And roommates.


Crashing with your "crunchy" buds in a warehouse in the sketchy parts of town is literally the lowest-end "location and roommates" solution possible.
   619. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:26 PM (#5530929)
Housing is very cheap.


So is dental care if you have no standards. And yet there you are, complaining. Was there no dental college where you could get a root canal from a 3rd year for $50 and 7 points towards their graduation?
   620. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:26 PM (#5530930)
That photo was taken within the last year or two, I think. The first place I looked, what used to be an empty storefront frequented by crusties, is now the Mad Monk record and book store. I don't think it had opened yet when I left two years ago.


I think it took me forever to notice it whenever google last updated their street view, umm...view, but picture date is on the top left. The pic of Sam's People was from a few months ago, March 2017.
   621. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:27 PM (#5530931)
Is this country really ready to elect a Ugandan savage as President?


Yes, but not a woman.
   622. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5530932)
Then - the usual "but they have smartphones and flat screens!".


An argument as old as time, of course, as demonstrated by my "But they have radios!" example from the '30s.



With, of course, the unspoken addendum, "...and I don't!"

I have a very good friend -- a very vocal Trump supporter -- who is always complaining that immigrants/minorities always seem to be put in line ahead of him for...well...everything.
   623. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5530933)
Whose party is it? Most Republicans Approve of Trump Snubbing Leaders

A new HuffPost/YouGov poll finds that Republicans approved of President Trump’s decision to side with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi over his own party’s leadership on the debt ceiling deal, 62% to 18%.

Trump voters registered their support by an even broader margin, 69% to 14%.
   624. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:29 PM (#5530934)
Housing is very cheap. Location, location, location. And roommates.


Housing is probably the most expensive it's been in ... thousands of years? Yes, you can score a cheap house if it's somewhere it's totally impossible to find work at, but it should be apparent why that's a bad decision. Regardless, work needs to come first - find a job, then move. Moving and then hoping to find a job is foolish and expensive. Getting a new place to live with often require first months rent + deposit + last months that means you're expending a lot up front.

But regardless of where you live, material things are much cheaper than housing. Leather jackets and smartphones cost a couple days worth of housing.
   625. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:29 PM (#5530935)
Homelessness is the moral issue of our time. We are not here to address homelessness… or manage homelessness...or reduce homelessness… we are here to end homelessness once and for all”

-Mayor Eric Garcetti

Since taking office, Mayor Eric Garcetti has made it his priority to address the homelessness crisis. The administration has a three pillar approach: housing those who are homeless; preventing people at risk for homelessness from landing on the streets; and balancing health and safety concerns with the rights and needs of people who are living in unacceptable conditions.

https://www.lamayor.org/homelessness


The moral issue of our time. Mayor Garcetti has made it his priority.

From the link $138 million allocated to the problem for 2016-2017.

And yet....... the problem is ever-increasing.

Does he suck at his job? Does he suck at identifying what the cause of the problem is and how to address it? Does he fail to understand the limitations of government?
   626. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5530936)
Does he suck at his job?


Yes.
   627. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5530937)
Amusingly enough, "Kamala the Ugandan Giant" has the real name of Jim Harris.

That's what tickles me so much about the joke. "Kamala Harris" could either be some Democrat politician from California or this guy. And ya gotta admit, the President of the United States having a masked handler to lead him to/from the podium for press conferences and presumably to translate Q&A's would be a spectacle even the current administration can't provide.
   628. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5530938)
Top notch trolling, Ray! Top notch! Cheap housing! That's a knee-slapper.
   629. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:33 PM (#5530939)
Deifying homeless people who have made it their lifestyle choice as the hipster homeless have done is of a piece with the left saying we owe a "debt of gratitude" to convicted felons for having served their sentences.
   630. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:35 PM (#5530942)
Housing is very expensive, material things are largely pretty cheap.

Housing is very cheap. Location, location, location. And roommates.


Housing can be very cheap if you meet an income threshold that means stuff like job proximity and transportation access are mere elements of convenience rather than necessities.

Roommates can certainly be a fine solution... but until silicon valley completes its AI work to provide us with an army of uber-reliable roommates that always pay their share of various bills on time, always give you extended notice that they're moving out before they do so, and the like... well, it's not even just quality of life that is at issue. On the aggregate, my own experience from years long past is that I'd have been better served paying slightly more for a single occupant living space than I was paying less with roommates. I suppose that my experience might have been different had I not been the one with my name on lease and various utilities.
   631. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5530944)
624

Getting a new place to live with often require first months rent + deposit + last months that means you're expending a lot up front.


Never a truer word...

I just moved. 2 weeks ago. I upgraded my apartment, with a commensurate -- $1,075/month worth of commensurate -- increase in rent. I had to front nearly $10-grand to make the move, before any actual...y'know...moving expenses.
   632. Greg K Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:45 PM (#5530947)
That he did. One of my very favorite of the monarchs. He was intelligent, witty, humorous and full of political savvy. He probably should have legitimated one of his sons so that son could have succeeded him, although the prime candidate for that was the Duke of Monmouth, who didn't seem to be even as politic as James. In that way, not thinking enough about an adequate succession, he kind of reminds me of FDR. A dying man, he nevertheless runs for re-election, and is so in denial about the fatalness of his condition that he even completely ignores his vice-president. But, then, none of us wants to think about impending mortality. Maybe that's how the dying make it through the day.

I've been listening to "The Revolutions Podcast" the past few months (someone here recommended it, no memory of who, but thanks!)

In the 1830 revolution now and the author (is that the right word for a podcast?) has portrayed Charles X as a man who learned all the wrong lessons from watching his brother lose his kingdom in 1789. Louis XVI was weak, so he'll do the opposite and act strong. But that doesn't work out so well either. Charles II in England should get all the credit in the world for learning the right lessons from his father's fall and really navigating an incredibly difficult process of restoration. Tradition casts 1688 as the final completion of the unfinished business of the Civil War, but I'm not sure the boat gets that far without sinking with even a moderately competent monarch instead of Charles in Charge.
   633. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:52 PM (#5530953)
Frenetic pace of GOP retirements bodes well for Democrats—and should frighten Republicans

Democratic retirements are in the middle of the pack for this time of the cycle. We’re not looking at a record low or anything, but we’re below the pace of 2010 and 2012.

Now here’s the same type of graph for Republicans:


Click through for the graphs. But hey, everything is fine. No worries at all. Obama is to blame.
   634. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5530959)
GOP House members may be retiring, but their incumbents in the Senate are standing tall. Flake Getting Crushed In GOP Primary

A new GBA Strategies poll in Arizona finds Kelli Ward (R) running way ahead of Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) in a GOP U.S. Senate primary, 58% to 31%.

In a general election match up, Kyrsten Sinema (D) also tops Flake, 47% to 40%.


Insert standard disclaimer about how miserable the Senate map in 2018 is for Democrats. It is looking less miserable all the time, but still even breaking even would be a massive victory.
   635. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:59 PM (#5530960)
That survey isn't super-interesting without Sinema vs. Ward numbers.

Ward beats Flake. Sinema beats Flake. What does this tell us? Very little.
   636. Lassus Posted: September 13, 2017 at 02:59 PM (#5530961)
In a general election match up, Kyrsten Sinema (D) also tops Flake, 47% to 40%.

Well, what about against the leader, Ward?

cokes, etc.
   637. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5530967)
Not that anyone should get any hopes up -- but just to add to BM's pollarama...

This out of Alabama is absolutely shocking -

But both Republicans would hold only a slim advantage over Jones, according to the poll — Moore leads Jones by 4 percentage points, while Strange leads him by 3 points.


I'm not sure what shocks me more -- that Owens is low single digits behind EITHER Moore or Strange, or that Moore actually does better than Strange (albeit, just a point, so perhaps just noise).

   638. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:03 PM (#5530970)
Deifying homeless people who have made it their lifestyle choice as the hipster homeless


Why do you hate other people's freedoms, Ray?
   639. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:09 PM (#5530974)
That survey isn't super-interesting without Sinema vs. Ward numbers.

Ward beats Flake. Sinema beats Flake. What does this tell us? Very little.
Given that I'm betting the combined name recognition of Sinema and Ward wouldn't equal that of a utility infielder for the Diamondbacks, I'm thinking that the survey wouldn't be interesting if it did include that matchup. These results tell us that Flake isn't popular, but nothing about the other people.
   640. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5530977)
Ward beats Flake. Sinema beats Flake. What does this tell us? Very little.

Well, what about against the leader, Ward?


I agree, but I don't write the polls (or know much more than I posted because the poll home site is blocked here at work). However ... incumbency is a fairly powerful force, and generally you would much rather be running against someone who beats the incumbent than the incumbent. This might be the rare special case though, of course.
   641. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:11 PM (#5530981)
OTB:

Indians get the record!
   642. BrianBrianson Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:12 PM (#5530985)
Why do you hate other people's freedoms, Ray?


I think it was implicit that in Ray's working days, his employer didn't allow him to grow a beard. And it's pure jealousy of those of us who can.
   643. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:12 PM (#5530986)
Given that I'm betting the combined name recognition of Sinema and Ward wouldn't equal that of a utility infielder for the Diamondbacks


I don't know about Sinema, but Ward ran against McCain a while back* and has at least some statewide election experience to boost her name recognition.

* For those with memories for such things "Chemtrail Kelli" is how it was put I believe (in some pretty unfair advertising).
   644. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:14 PM (#5530990)
I think it was implicit that in Ray's working days, his employer didn't allow him to grow a beard. And it's pure jealousy of those of us who can.


Seems to me the man just doesn't like other people's hustles. He has to put on pants and go to an office every day, so why do they get to not?!
   645. Lassus Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:16 PM (#5530993)
Deifying homeless people

It seems someone may not be aware of what this word means.
   646. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5530995)
or that Moore actually does better than Strange


Is that really surprising? Moore is a religious whack-a-doodle running in Alabama, and Strange has been getting a big push from a party establishment that the rank-and-file members hate and distrust.
   647. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5530996)
He has to put on pants and go to an office every day, so why do they get to not?!


See #622...
   648. Omineca Greg Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:19 PM (#5530999)
If you look at the spends, the recipients, and information we DO have -- and your primary concern is "I don't want my tax dollars wasted on people cheating 'us'", then your beefs with the 'poor' ought to rank far, far, far behind banks, defense contractors, large private hospital groups, etc.

In any case, my bottom line -- and what I primarily object to -- is the undying meme that the 'poor' are mostly shiftless, lazy, grifters living high on the hog


The thing is most people don't hang around with defence contractors. Everybody knows someone who is bilking the system, or at least with the crowd I run with they do. So it's much more in people's minds, for better or worse.

I was talking with a social worker, and she said the amount the Government Of British Columbia gives out in benefits already accounts for people cheating the system. That is to say, they decide how much the benefits should be, and then concoct a system where nobody gets that much unless they cheat. And then, surprise(!) everybody cheats, but the Ministry doesn't even have to worry about it, because secretly that's what they wanted to give anyway. Simultaneously, it gives them cover, as when tax-payers complain and start looking for places to cut, the Ministry has a much uglier number to show the public. "Well, I guess that's OK, who can live off $450/month?" and the angry mob wanders off to somewhere else. It's a hell of a way to run a railroad, but I can see why they do it that way. The unfortunate by-product is that everyone on SA is technically cheating, so as much as that kind of thing gets under your skin, you're presented with real life examples of cheaters...Every. Single. Person...on social assistance you meet.
   649. Greg K Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:19 PM (#5531001)
Deifying homeless people

It seems someone may not be aware of what this word means.

I don't know...Jesus did a lot of wandering around aimlessly didn't he?
   650. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:20 PM (#5531003)
Everybody knows someone who is bilking the system


Yeah but lawyers can sue you if you point that out too vociferously, so we stay silent and pick on the Poors.
   651. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:22 PM (#5531005)
Everybody knows someone who is bilking the system


And if you don't know someone who's bilking the system, then it's probably you...
   652. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:23 PM (#5531007)
It seems someone may not be aware of what this word means.


There is some precedent. Jesus was born to a temporarily homeless pair of migrants, after all.

Edit: Coke to Greg.
   653. Omineca Greg Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5531009)
Yeah but lawyers can sue you if you point that out too vociferously, so we stay silent and pick on the Poors
.

HA! Well done.
   654. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5531012)
There is some precedent. Jesus was born to a temporarily homeless pair of migrants, after all.

Edit: Coke to Greg.


Shouldn't that be wine?
   655. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5531014)
Charlie, #534:
It's been a long time since "You write the story, I'll provide the war."


Yeah, it's already been 12 years since Judith Miller had to resign from the New York Times.
   656. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:29 PM (#5531015)
Shouldn't that be wine?


Eh, we'll fix it in post.
   657. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:29 PM (#5531018)
Charlie, #534:
It's been a long time since "You write the story, I'll provide the war."


Yeah, it's already been 12 years since Judith Miller had to resign from the New York Times.



Touche...
   658. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:32 PM (#5531023)
The homeless problem is a severe and devastating problem for those who are homeless and who don't choose to be -- e.g., they are mentally ill.

The homeless problem is also a problem for the health and aesthetics of our cities.

Why someone would deny the second part, or claim that it's insensitive to point it out, is left as an exercise for the reader.

LA is being overwhelmed by the problem. It's a disaster for the city. Although I realize that taxpayers who have to foot the bill and -- yes -- drive by the homeless camps -- are mocked and shat upon while non-taxpayers are deified.

And what I'm saying is that there's no need to incentivize choosing homelessness as a way of life by, e.g., erecting charging stations so that the homeless hipsters can charge their smartphones.
   659. PepTech Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5531027)
never mind.
   660. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:37 PM (#5531031)
Clapper, #603:
A rare 2020 Democratic Nomination Poll:
Sanders 28%
Biden 17%
Warren 12%
Zuckerberg 7%
Harris 6%
Gillibrand 3%
Cuomo 3%
Klobuchar 1%
McAuliffe 1%
Not Sure 23%

No Hillary? No WaPo fave (# 3!) Chris Murphy? And where's that Generic guy? He'll be tough to beat.



July 2013 polling for the 2016 Republican nomination:

Rand Paul 16%
Jeb Bush 13%
Christie 13%
Ryan 13%
Cruz 12%
Rubio 10%
Santorum 4%
Jindal 4%
Susana Martinez 2%
Someone Else/Not Sure 13%



Mouse, #634:
A new GBA Strategies poll in Arizona finds Kelli Ward (R) running way ahead of Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) in a GOP U.S. Senate primary, 58% to 31%.
In a general election match up, Kyrsten Sinema (D) also tops Flake, 47% to 40%.



Yes, but 31% plus 40% adds up to an impressive 71% for Flake. He's sitting pretty.
   661. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:45 PM (#5531040)
LA is being overwhelmed by the problem. It's a disaster for the city. Although I realize that taxpayers who have to foot the bill and -- yes -- drive by the homeless camps -- are mocked and shat upon while non-taxpayers are deified.


Every sentence in this paragraph is wrong. In fact every bit of it is wrong, except maybe the part about taxpayers footing the bill. I am not sure which bill, which is why that part might be true. But based on the rest of it, a safer assumption is it is not true.
   662. PepTech Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:45 PM (#5531042)
The homeless problem is a severe and devastating problem for those who are homeless and who don't choose to be -- e.g., they are mentally ill.

The homeless problem is also a problem for the health and aesthetics of our cities.

Why someone would deny the second part, or claim that it's insensitive to point it out, is left as an exercise for the reader.

LA is being overwhelmed by the problem. It's a disaster for the city. Although I realize that taxpayers who have to foot the bill and -- yes -- drive by the homeless camps -- are mocked and shat upon while non-taxpayers are deified.

And what I'm saying is that there's no need to incentivize choosing homelessness as a way of life by, e.g., erecting charging stations so that the homeless hipsters can charge their smartphones.
So say it with that level of clarity, the first time.

Out of curiosity, two questions:

1) Who is "deifying" anyone?
2) Who is "denying" the second part?
   663. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:48 PM (#5531044)
And what I'm saying is that there's no need to incentivize choosing homelessness as a way of life by, e.g., erecting charging stations so that the homeless hipsters can charge their smartphones.


There are public phone charging stations in airports too, Ray. Are those exclusively there for the use of stateless people trapped in the airport, like in that one Tom Hanks movie?


How about public bathrooms? Do you also have a problem with cities providing those? If not, what's the difference between the two?
   664. The Good Face Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:50 PM (#5531045)
you're throwing shots in the dark to try and provoke a reaction


Shots in the dark? It took a single, tiny prod to get this ongoing meltdown out of you. It was more like casting a single spark onto a giant pile of oil soaked rags.

I've seen you do the same thing with other people for years.


Have people react to me? The horror!

What is there to be scared of?


Nothing. That's what makes your fear so pathetic.

You're a know-nothing blowhard


Then why bother? Why not let it go? Who spends precious time repeatedly defending themselves from know-nothing blowhards that have zero impact on one's life beyond what one gives them? Your actions give the game away. At this point I'm curious how long I can prolong this streak of increasingly frantic screeds, each proclaiming how little you care and how unimportant my opinion is to you.

The eternal refrain of the bully - "It was just a joke, man! Can't you take a joke?"


Aaaaand now we're back to crying victim. It wasn't a joke, it was an intentional provocation, although a small, mild one. Nothing more was necessary. Your insecurities wouldn't let you do any less than you've done.

Your ego is fragile, so you need to try and save face by pretending that you weren't really publicly shamed.


Are things truly so bad that you're reduced to this?

Thus, you say that you weren't trying to play stupid macho dominance games after all, and the joke is really on me for taking the bait


Of course I was playing a game with you, although any "stupid macho dominance" elements are once again your own insecurities talking.

I hope for your own sake that some day, you straighten up and start acting like a man.


Are real men afraid to honestly and openly communicate with their parents?
   665. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:50 PM (#5531046)
Yes, but not a woman.


We're probably OK until she sits down on the sedia stercoraria. Then all bets are off.
   666. dlf Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:51 PM (#5531047)
I spend too much time in cars and airplanes. One of the things I do to pass the time is listen to podcasts. A recent one was a TedTalk by Albuquerque's Mayor Richard Berry discussing that city's approach to homelessness. It is worth a listen, but the short version is that the city allocated a lump sum to a charitable organization that then offers panhandlers an hourly wage for cleaning streets, parks, and other, primarily, city facilities. Then at the end of the day, the people who elect to do so are offered housing, mental health, and/or drug counseling. Berry indicated that the program, was very inexpensive to set up and operate, had resulted in a significant reduction in homelessness, including a functional zero military veterans homeless, as well as the eyesore of panhandling, and removed tons of garbage from public areas. Subjectively, he also indicated that by providing short term employment, it boosted morale far more than a handout, that the vast majority of people approached were thrilled with the opportunity to work for a day's pay, and by doing so, the long-term impact was immense on a personal level. I haven't spent much time in ABQ so I can't vouch for any of what he discussed, but the approach sounded good.
   667. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:51 PM (#5531049)
1) Who is "deifying" anyone?
2) Who is "denying" the second part?


Everyone on this thread who has pushed back against the criticism of the hipster homeless.
   668. dlf Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5531052)
Is that really surprising? Moore is a religious whack-a-doodle running in Alabama, and Strange has been getting a big push from a party establishment that the rank-and-file members hate and distrust.


FWIW, Strange has received the endorsement of DJT while Bannon is supporting Moore. Its a weird dynamic.

Another issue that might have some impact is Strange's lack of action as the AG in investigating former Governor Bentley who, in looks an awful lot like a quid pro quo, appointed Strange to fill Session's seat ... and Strange's replacement named a special prosecutor who got Bentley's resignation from office roughly 20 seconds after taking over.
   669. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5531053)
There are public phone charging stations in airports too, Ray. Are those exclusively there for the use of stateless people trapped in the airport, like in that one Tom Hanks movie?


As if flying doesn't pose a special circumstance for battery power.
   670. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 03:58 PM (#5531056)
LA is being overwhelmed by the problem. It's a disaster for the city. Although I realize that taxpayers who have to foot the bill and -- yes -- drive by the homeless camps -- are mocked and shat upon while non-taxpayers are deified.

Every sentence in this paragraph is wrong. In fact every bit of it is wrong, except maybe the part about taxpayers footing the bill. I am not sure which bill, which is why that part might be true. But based on the rest of it, a safer assumption is it is not true.


Do you think the $138 million LA has allocated to the problem over two years just fell out of a tree?
   671. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:00 PM (#5531057)
#666 - that does sound interesting. Scaling such programs, making them work outside of where they came from always seems to be the problem.

Note: I have not been reading the TGF back and forth, but my rule of thumb is that when TGF starts his massive every sentence needs a response posts he is doing poorly and thrashing around. I don't care enough to read it all though, as I am sure it is long past the name calling stage.
   672. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:01 PM (#5531058)
Shots in the dark? It took a single, tiny prod to get this ongoing meltdown out of you.


Yeah, a prod at Sam about his weight a week or two ago, because I figured somebody ought to challenge you on your tiresome little game. It's a shame that you don't know any others.

Then why bother? Why not let it go?


On some level, I believe that everyone has the potential to do good and be good. So by calling you out on this stupid bullshit, I'm kind of hoping that down the road it might lead to you the realization that there's more to life than this Kabuki overcompensation ritual. Or at least make you less likely to pull that crap on people who aren't savvy enough to recognize you for what you are or confident enough to push back against it.

It wasn't a joke, it was an intentional provocation, although a small, mild one.


Good. I'm glad we agree. Now that we've established that you're deliberately pissing on the public commons, we can get down to the question as to why. What makes you think that this is the right way to approach social interactions? If, as you claim, it's not a desperate bid to establish social proof via dumb aggression, why do you act like that? And how do you think people see you when you behave that way?
   673. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:02 PM (#5531061)
As if flying doesn't pose a special circumstance for battery power.


The airplanes don't run on your battery pack, Ray.
   674. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5531062)
Wait, Sam's, a a socialist nutbag who posts terrible things and you need to resort to *weight* to make fun of him? Weak sauce.
   675. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5531063)
Do you think the $138 million LA has allocated to the problem over two years just fell out of a tree?


Likely it came from somewhere, and trees seems unlikely. Of course you object to the one part I allow might be true, so sure if it make you happy I will say that one part is true (the only part, but there you have it).

Feel better now?
   676. PepTech Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:05 PM (#5531065)
Everyone on this thread who has pushed back against the criticism of the hipster homeless.
OK, who has pushed back against that particular criticism? There was some confusion from people who didn't understand the contextual subset you were referring to, but that got cleared up, and once that was clear there have been precisely zero posts "defending" hipsters or "deifying" anyone at all.

There were posts asking for more empathy for the unfortunate class of homeless folks (and mistakenly thought you didn't have any), but that's it. Where you get "deify" needs a cite.
   677. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:06 PM (#5531066)
The thing is most people don't hang around with defence contractors. Everybody knows someone who is bilking the system, or at least with the crowd I run with they do. So it's much more in people's minds, for better or worse.

I was talking with a social worker, and she said the amount the Government Of British Columbia gives out in benefits already accounts for people cheating the system. That is to say, they decide how much the benefits should be, and then concoct a system where nobody gets that much unless they cheat. And then, surprise(!) everybody cheats, but the Ministry doesn't even have to worry about it, because secretly that's what they wanted to give anyway. Simultaneously, it gives them cover, as when tax-payers complain and start looking for places to cut, the Ministry has a much uglier number to show the public. "Well, I guess that's OK, who can live off $450/month?" and the angry mob wanders off to somewhere else. It's a hell of a way to run a railroad, but I can see why they do it that way. The unfortunate by-product is that everyone on SA is technically cheating, so as much as that kind of thing gets under your skin, you're presented with real life examples of cheaters...Every. Single. Person...on social assistance you meet.


Oh sure - though, I don't think it's actually quite as strange as it sounds (i.e., retailers bake theft into their financials and pricing, too).

In any case, my fundamental beef i/r/t safety net/poverty programs still goes back to the last couple decades where the 'solutions' people have pushed have been mainly punitive and geared towards the really dumb idea that helping people make their way out of poverty ought to include various mechanisms to demand more, put up new obstacles, etc of them.

I'm not anti-anti-fraud... but the problem to me is that we've focused so many of the elements of various programs towards catching the fraudsters that we've actually made it harder for people legitimately trying to use such programs to get on their feet. We should be making it easier for them, not harder.

If I were king, my poverty solutions would be geared towards lifting various burdens such that people stand a better chance of no longer needing poverty solutions.

To wit -

Simple things like trafficking in modern finance - I'm not talking about retirement vehicles and investments - I'm talking about just getting a paycheck and being able to actually use it without someone (read banks or worse) getting a few pennies off the top. These sorts of things tend to spin out of control - by design by the institutions - and they're getting worse, not better. I understand some employers are now paying their low wage employees with preloaded debit cards... that's a friggin racket that ought to be illegal. My solution would provide a zero fee 'banking lite' capability - run it through the post office or whatever. A place where you can cash your paycheck, get the full dollar amount back, and the capability to pay bills from an account sans fees (and if it's needs subsidization, so be it... though, I see nothing wrong with this entity - the post office bank, let's call it - then investing the aggregate in relatively safe intra-governmental borrowing endeavors; i.e., the same way Social Security uses its trust fund for government debt).

My goal is to create a safety net that allows the poor to focus on the essentials. Eating. Having a place to live. Getting a job and being able to afford getting to and from that job. If you continually look for solutions by setting up hoops to jump through, all we're doing is training the poor to become better at jumping through those hoops. I'd much rather REMOVE the hoops - let them focus on the basic essentials and ease them into the various intricacies of living outside that safety net.

   678. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5531071)
Tough to imagine you'd choose that lifestyle if you'd had an emotionally stable upbringing.

Three homeless guys standing on the corner shooting the ####. "Giving up cigarettes was the worst decision of my life..."

Then again, they dont call working for a living the rat race for nothing.

At least you get it that some people hop off the nice, safe conveyor belt to the graveyard by choice.
   679. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5531072)
Betrayal alert! Dinner with Chuck and Nancy


“House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer will dine with President Trump on Wednesday evening at the White House,” Politico reports.

“The discussion will include the DREAM Act — a proposal to provide long-term protection for undocumented immigrants who arrived in the country as minors — efforts to stabilize Obamacare health insurance markets, and a slew of December fiscal deadlines.”
   680. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:13 PM (#5531074)
FWIW, Strange has received the endorsement of DJT while Bannon is supporting Moore. Its a weird dynamic.

Another issue that might have some impact is Strange's lack of action as the AG in investigating former Governor Bentley who, in looks an awful lot like a quid pro quo, appointed Strange to fill Session's seat ... and Strange's replacement named a special prosecutor who got Bentley's resignation from office roughly 20 seconds after taking over.


Trump's Strange was pre-things getting really bad with McConnell... I did read a few days back that Strange had been promised a rally with Trump, but nothing's yet scheduled. The endorsement probably DID more than likely keep Strange in the runoff for the GOP nomination rather than setting up a true whack vs whack finale of Moore vs Mo Brooks... Man - that would have been a REALLY fun primary fight. Two actual crazies trying to out crazy each other.
   681. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:19 PM (#5531077)
As if flying doesn't pose a special circumstance for battery power.


How about the public toilets, Ray? No special circumstances there.

   682. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:23 PM (#5531080)
As if flying doesn't pose a special circumstance for battery power.


I paid $15 for a USB travel battery the size of a deck of cards to recharge my phone, you mooch. And that was new - I bet that Craig guy will get you one that fell off a truck for even less.
   683. The Good Face Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:24 PM (#5531081)
I figured somebody ought to challenge you on your tiresome little game.


Oh, a self valorizing narrative! Instead of an insecure wreck afraid of his own shadow, A CHALLENGER APPEARS! Way to cover for your 24+ hour meltdown. I wonder if even you believe that whopper.

It's a shame that you don't know any others.


I know lots of games. But this one is fun! Are you not having fun?

On some level, I believe that everyone has the potential to do good and be good.


I couldn't agree more. That's one of the reasons I post here; making the world a better place.

Or at least make you less likely to pull that crap on people who aren't savvy enough to recognize you for what you are or confident enough to push back against it.


Your ludicrous attempts to overcompensate aside, you do realize that your "pushing back" is exactly what I wanted (and knew you'd do), right?

Now that we've established that you're deliberately pissing on the public commons, we can get down to the question as to why. What makes you think that this is the right way to approach social interactions? If, as you claim, it's not a desperate bid to establish social proof via dumb aggression, why do you act like that?


It's not because I don't like you (although I don't), but because I love justice. I treat you better than you treat others because I'm inherently a kind person, but you act like a dick here and people who act like dicks shouldn't cry when they get what they give.

And how do you think people see you when you behave that way?


I'm more concerned with doing what is right than signaling my bien pensant credentials to a collection of anonymous internet randoms. Perhaps if you did the same you wouldn't be so fearful and insecure all the time.
   684. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:28 PM (#5531085)
Do you think the $138 million LA has allocated to the problem over two years just fell out of a tree?

Likely it came from somewhere, and trees seems unlikely. Of course you object to the one part I allow might be true, so sure if it make you happy I will say that one part is true (the only part, but there you have it).


It came from the LA city budget.... which is 9.2 billion (representing deficit spending of about 200 million).... from an overall kitty of city GDP just shy of 1 trillion.

The first rule of Ray numbers in the OTP is to always contextualize them... because he never posts them with the intention of illumination, only when they make neat little dirt clods to hurl.

   685. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5531087)
This is so interesting to me. Like the terrorism problem, people don't want to be honest about what the problem actually IS, and the causes of it. So they say that housing costs are the problem, rich people are the cause, taxpayers are the cause, capitalism is the cause...... And they never actually allow a conversation centered on the actual causes and sources of the problem.
   686. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:35 PM (#5531090)
And they never actually allow a conversation centered on the actual causes and sources of the problem.


Allow?

Ummm, what? Regarding homelessness there are many causes. We have touched on some of them in this very thread: choice, mental illness, cost of housing. Is there some other causes you want to throw out there that you have thus far been not allowed to post?
   687. Nasty Nate Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5531092)
Cell phone charging.
   688. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5531093)
My guess is the so called hipster homeless are largely young people in despair. Once you get to a certain age no one chooses that life over a life with more comfort.
   689. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:40 PM (#5531096)
Oh, a self valorizing narrative! Instead of an insecure wreck afraid of his own shadow, A CHALLENGER APPEARS! Way to cover for your 24+ hour meltdown. I wonder if even you believe that whopper.


Since we're doing Real Talk, I should probably tell you that Bitter Mouse is absolutely right about the one-line responses to everything in my posts being a tell that you're flailing. So is redirecting and restating the other side's line in a more hyperbolic fashion. Those are the sorts of things people do in an argument when they have nothing else left to throw at the wall.

It's not because I don't like you (although I don't), but because I love justice.


What does "justice" have to do with you making fun of Sam's weight during a discussion about politics?

I'm more concerned with doing what is right than signaling my bien pensant credentials to a collection of anonymous internet randoms.


Your remark about "bien pesant credentials" intrigues me - let's plumb this to a slightly greater depth. You think that the only reason other people here don't compulsively tweak and poke and needle each other with gratuitous and irrelevant opprobrium is because they're unquestioning slaves to social convention? That seems like an unnecessarily complicated explanation - wouldn't it be simpler to suggest that other people don't do it because they don't have the kind of latent insecurities that compel you to do so?
   690. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:41 PM (#5531097)
Google tells me (from the top three results):

Top Causes of Homelessness in America

Homelessness is, in fact, caused by tragic life occurrences like the loss of loved ones, job loss, domestic violence, divorce and family disputes. Other impairments such as depression, untreated mental illness, post traumatic stress disorder, and physical disabilities are also responsible for a large portion of the homeless. Many factors push people into living on the street. Acknowledging these can help facilitate the end of homelessness in America.


Homelessness in America: Overview of Data and Causes (WARNING! PDF!)
According to the most recent annual survey by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, major cities across the country report that top causes of homelessness among families were:
(1) lack of affordable housing,
(2) unemployment,
(3) poverty, and
(4) low wages, in that order.

The same report found that the top four causes of homelessness among unaccompanied individuals were:
(1) lack of affordable housing,
(2) unemployment,
(3) poverty,
(4) mental illness and the lack of needed services, and
(5) substance abuse and the lack of needed services.


Domestic violence was also called out.

Why are people homeless?

Homelessness can be caused by:

* poverty
* unemployment
* lack of affordable housing
* poor physical or mental health
* drug and alcohol abuse
* gambling
* family and relationship breakdown
* domestic violence
* physical and/or sexual abuse.

All these factors can cause a person to become homeless. They can also be one of the reasons why a person remains homeless. For example, drug and alcohol abuse can be both a cause and a result of

* domestic violence
* mental illness or addictions
* family instability


So let's talk about the causes of homelessness, with these links as a starting point.

EDIT: The clever reader will notice a certain similarity between the causes listed in the three lists, and will also notice some of the main causes were listed up thread.
   691. The Good Face Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:41 PM (#5531098)
Like the terrorism problem, people don't want to be honest about what the problem actually IS, and the causes of it.


The biggest cause of the problem (aside from mental illness) is people who make poor life decisions. And people make poor life decisions for a number of reasons such as stupidity, fucked up family life, laziness, etc. Nature, nurture, whatever. Either way, caused by factors that are beyond their control.

Yes, hipster crustpunks are scum and can all die in a gutter, but most homeless people are mentally ill, fall in the "poor life decision" bucket, or some combination of the two, and are not really to blame for either.
   692. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5531099)
Is this country really ready to elect a Ugandan savage as President?


Ha! Turn out the lights, this partys over.
   693. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:43 PM (#5531100)
This is so interesting to me. Like the terrorism problem, people don't want to be honest about what the problem actually IS, and the causes of it. So they say that housing costs are the problem, rich people are the cause, taxpayers are the cause, capitalism is the cause...... And they never actually allow a conversation centered on the actual causes and sources of the problem.


Well, in fairness -- it would seem very few people possess the capability of instant expertise acquisition to identify cause, problem, and solution based on what our eyes see on the walk to work the way you do.

The unfortunate rest of us are forced to read, digest, contextualize mountains of information beyond personally witnessed anecdotes.

Trust me, it sure does suck.

   694. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:47 PM (#5531106)
Other impairments such as ... untreated mental illness ... are also responsible for a large portion of the homeless.

aka Hipsterism.
   695. PepTech Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5531108)
And they never actually allow a conversation centered on the actual causes and sources of the problem.
Ray, if anything, you're preventing a substantial conversation by your methodology. Your #629 does nothing to advance the issue, it's a pause to trumpet how much smarter you think you are than everyone else, even though you've taken a random post here and there and turned it into "everyone" "deifying" a sub-sub-class that, despite your claims, everyone actually agrees are mockworthy.

The hipster homeless aren't a statistically interesting cause, or source, of the overall dilemma, yet you have done little in the last two pages but ensure they remain the focus of the debate, seemingly so you can post self-congratulatory "content" like 629 and 685.

What's your plan of action for the mentally ill class of homeless? Why not post a substantive reaction to 666 instead of jousting pedantically about "deification", then complaining that conversation isn't "allowed"?
   696. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:52 PM (#5531110)
So let's talk about the causes of homelessness, with these links as a starting point.


Those links are hilarious. Mental illness is treated as one of but many factors when it's the primary driver. Much of the rest is simply restating the problem. Such as "poverty causes homelessness."

And yet, for the non-mentally-ill it largely boils down to life decisions. Like with health care, anyone who makes reasonable life decisions can afford housing. And so when someone tells you that high housing costs are the problem -- despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans can and do afford housing -- you know that they're either bullshitting you or so uninformed about the problem that they're not worth having the discussion with.
   697. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5531112)
You think that the only reason other people here don't compulsively tweak and poke and needle each other with gratuitous and irrelevant opprobrium is because they're unquestioning slaves to social convention?


Well that does sound like me. Which you'd know if you weren't such a dumb Polack.
   698. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5531113)
And yet, for the non-mentally-ill it largely boils down to life decisions. Like with health care, anyone who makes reasonable life decisions can afford housing. And so when someone tells you that high housing costs are the problem -- despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans can and do afford housing -- you know that they're either bullshitting you or so uninformed about the problem that they're not worth having the discussion with.

Translation: If you live in a city where the median rent is greater than your monthly pay, it's your fault for not moving to Mississippi or Kansas. You are truly the Marie Antoinette of BTF.
   699. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:57 PM (#5531115)
The biggest cause of the problem (aside from mental illness) is people who make poor life decisions. And people make poor life decisions for a number of reasons such as stupidity, ###### up family life, laziness, etc. Nature, nurture, whatever. Either way, caused by factors that are beyond their control.


I'd wager everybody in the world has made a 'poor life decision' at one time or another in their life.

I mean - if you want to get down to brass tacks and put it in a vacuum that sets aside larger policy implications, thinking you'll just work at the local factory or in the local coal mine all your life constitutes a poor life decision, too.
   700. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 13, 2017 at 04:57 PM (#5531116)
Those links are hilarious. Mental illness is treated as one of but many factors when it's the primary driver. Much of the rest is simply restating the problem. Such as "poverty causes homelessness."


Glad to see that you are an expert in homelessness. Much more so than those who have studied the issue and work with it on a regular basis. Have any easy peasy solutions in mind?

By the way, like I said, I just choose the top three google hits with no more screening than that. If you have a more credible source than the Salvation Army, National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, and HomeAid I am glad to hear it. Please provide a link to your source. Thanks!
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