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Monday, February 12, 2018

OTP 12 February 2018: Jeff Samardzija explains why politics and baseball rarely mix

However, there were several curveballs that forced Giants’ players to think outside the box, including one from a fan who asked a trio that included catcher Buster Posey, reliever Cory Gearrin and starting pitcher Jeff Samardzija whether they think baseball players should have a role in voicing their political opinions like football and basketball players have in recent years.

The question temporarily stumped Gearrin and Posey, so as his teammates waited, Samardzija decided to jump in and share his perspective.

“I don’t think so, not necessarily because we’re here to entertain you guys. Every time we step on the field, it’s important,” Samardzija said, before pausing temporarily while a loud round of applause petered out.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 12, 2018 at 07:41 AM | 2005 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics, san francisco giants, spring training

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   501. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5624378)
So, rather than the HRC fantasy, what recommendations would you have made in the Rhodes aftermath, either as forward-going process improvements, or sanctions for any party (from Rhodes through Obama)? Presumably the same ones you'd champion with regards to Porter/Kelly/Trump. Would Zonk's list from #401 (pretend it's rhetoric-free) serve as a good starting point?
It's a good question, PT, and I don't have an answer at the ready. Perhaps the next time I sit down for coffee or a drink with my friend who's a former Army intel dude, I'll ask for his thoughts.
   502. Greg K Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5624380)
So how does James answer his own question?

(EDIT: Let's insert some names here. Player A is Dixie Walker, and player B manager B is Leo Durocher.)


Turns out this is like the third time I've referenced this story and each time I totally forget the details.

Quoting myself from a while back:

Ah, I really remembered that story wrong.

It was some guy named Johnny Dunlap punching out Early Wynn when Wynn said something about not drinking with people like Dunlap's dark-skinned friend Willie Wells while they were at a racetrack in Cuba


As I recall James is ambivalent, but is critical of the author who relates this story for treating Dunlap as the hero.
   503. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5624381)
But, hey, with good-hearted, even-keeled, clear-headed leaders like Erdogan, Netanyahu, Khameni, Nasrallah, Assad and Trump running the show, I am sure nothing can go wrong.
Oh, how cute, Srul just woke up from his seven-year hibernation and noticed that, well, how about that, Syria's on fire!
   504. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5624385)
An E1 with <4 months service gets $1514/month basic pay. That may not sound like much, but he also gets free housing, free meals, and his uniforms are paid for. So, $18,000 per year when housing, food, medical, and work clothes are provided for, is not bad for a single 18 YO. Throw in a wife and children who cannot eat in the chow hall nor live in the barracks, and yes, that family is in need of assistance. But I'm not sure that's the Army's fault.


Military families on food stamps isn't a new thing. It was a big deal when I was in 30 years ago.

Same here. I was fine, lived on base and really didn't have a many expenses. The people who were really suffering were the soldiers who had families. I don't know how they lived on the salary if the wife wasn't working.


Sure - I get it...

I'm just contextualizing the issue in terms of a 716 billion dollar defense budget.

This is from the 2013 budget, so it's dated -- but:

Of DoD’s $150 billion request for compensation in 2013, more than $90 billion would go to basic pay, food and housing allowances, bonuses, and various types of special pay. Another $16 billion would go to accrual payments that account for the future pensions of current service members who will retire from the military (generally after at least 20 years of service). In 2012, DoD paid 34 cents for each dollar of basic pay for active personnel and 24 cents for each dollar of basic pay for reserve personnel.

The remainder of DoD’s request for compensation in 2013—roughly $40 billion—would cover health benefits. Whereas 1.4 million military personnel serve on active duty, a total of nearly 10 million people are eligible for military health benefits. In addition to active-duty military personnel, the people who have access to health benefits include eligible family members of those personnel, retired military personnel and their eligible family members, survivors of service members who died while on active duty, and some members of the reserves and National Guard.


Let's figure it's 100 billion now.... Using the per dollar percent above - and we'll set aside reserves for a moment - that means we're talking 34 billion of active duty personnel pay.

Again - extrapolating above, this would be on the WAY high-end, since as you say, not every E1 through E4 or equivalent has a family (I'm just arbitrarily cutting it off at E5 - where the base pay for less than 2 years would be $27K -- or, even above a family of four eligible for food stamps).... but we'll go with the high-end estimates.

Google would seem to say that active duty personnel below this rank would comprise 50 to 55% of active duty personnel. High end estimate again - the numbers would work out in the other direction - let's say this leaves us with 17 billion in pay for our vulnerable to needing public assistance.

Combining the percent of families on free or reduced school meals (again - as you say, not all have families) - we're talking ~40%.... let's say 8 billion.

What does it take to get that number up to a level where no active duty personnel would be eligible.... a 10% bump? 20%? However you want to slice it - we're talking what... a billion? two billion?

Granted - it's not that simple, I know. You can't very well bump up an E1 right out of boot camp to be making more than an E5 with more than 2 years of service, so sure... we need to make further adjustments.

But - the very simple fact seems to remain.

We're talking a 716 billion dollar DoD budget. We're talking a 73 billion increase.

A spare billion or two cannot be found?
   505. Greg K Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5624387)
Has anybody been following the multi-national free-for-all that Syria is turning into?

US and its allies being attacked by, and then decimating, Russian mercenaries.
Iranian drone being shot done, followed by Israeli airstrike at Iranian positions, and Israeli F-16i going down and then massive attach on Syrian Air Defense.
Turkey moving hard against the Kurds and now threatening a town where the US has forces.

While everybody is obsessing about dossiers, Porter, Kelly and the like, the Syrian Civil War/Russian-Iranian-Hezbollah incursion/Anti-ISIS campaign is beginning to morph into something different and far more consequential.

But, hey, with good-hearted, even-keeled, clear-headed leaders like Erdogan, Netanyahu, Khameni, Nasrallah, Assad and Trump running the show, I am sure nothing can go wrong.

My International Studies 100 students have an assignment due in three weeks which asks them to follow an issue in the news and apply concepts from the course to explain what is happening. One of the options is Syria. So I know of at least a handful of people paying attention! (At least, I hope so, for the sake of their grades).
   506. BDC Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5624388)
the continuing imperative to distinguish between words and acts. Yes, words can be violent -- but they're virtually never as violent as actual violence

Although then it's not a hypothetical. It's a rhetorical question. It's "well, sure, calling you a ###### is bad, but c'mon, is it as bad as punching you?" To which your answers are limited.

The history of words and blows suggests that the whole issue is way more grey than y'all would prefer, but again, even your preference for black-and-white is in itself a revealing answer. Sure, punching somebody is worse than calling them a belly-itcher, but calling them a ######, with the force of society and history behind you that ensures you can do so with impunity, may actually be worse than punching them when they can punch back. But if blows are always worse than words, you can always dismiss objections to words by saying "So what? I could have hit you. Grow up."

   507. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5624391)
476

President Donald Trump's proposals to cut eligibility for food stamps would hit hard on thousands of military families who receive the benefit, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

"It's a very unfortunate situation," Army Lt. Gen. Anthony R. Ierardi, the Pentagon's Joint Staff Director for force structure, readiness and assessment, said of the difficulties of troops who have to resort to food stamps.


ButButButBut Trump loves the military -- not enough to actually, y'know, become a part of it, mind you...
   508. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5624392)
Perhaps the next time I sit down for coffee or a drink with my friend who's a former Army intel dude, I'll ask for his thoughts.
I'd be interested in hearing them. The idea of being cavalier with "temporary" clearances is the main concern, I think, for me. Whether it's Rhodes or Porter. As noted above, why have the process if we're just going to ignore it. I get that there can be waivers under certain circumstances, but not blanket, multi-year free passes for clearances at POTUS level.
   509. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5624393)
An E1 with <4 months service gets $1514/month basic pay. That may not sound like much, but he also gets free housing, free meals, and his uniforms are paid for. So, $18,000 per year when housing, food, medical, and work clothes are provided for, is not bad for a single 18 YO. Throw in a wife and children who cannot eat in the chow hall nor live in the barracks, and yes, that family is in need of assistance. But I'm not sure that's the Army's fault.
E-1's in 2018 get a base pay of $1638 per month. They also get a location-dependent, tax-free housing allowance based on with/without dependents, "designed to ensure that adequate and affordable housing is always available for soldiers and military families". It should cover between 75 and 100% of the cost of housing. They can usually also choose to live in base housing, but if they do that they give up the housing allowance. And they have zero out of pocket health care expenses.

As an example, an E-1 to E-4 in San Antonio with dependents gets an additional $1623 per month to cover housing and $358 per month for food. On top of an E-1 base pay of 19656 per year, the minimum a new E-1 with dependents should make is $43,428 per year, with almost half of that tax-free. But most people are only E-1s for about four to six months, so it jumps another ~2 grand, and then jumps to 47K after 12 months when they make E-3 and ~51K as an E-4 at two years.

Not great, but that's 25-37% higher than the median US household income for families whose head of household is a high school graduate. Pretty decent for a 21 year old who is also earning GI bill that will pay for 3 years of college tuition (plus three yeas of E-1 base pay even after seperating).
   510. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5624394)
I feel like I missed something.

What's the significance of "Anglo-American tradition"? Isn't that just a different way of referring to the common law tradition?

You missed that some on the left, including apparently our own Zonk, have gone so far as to consider the term "Anglo-American" some sort of racist dog-whistle. It's such an absurd position - Obama used the term multiple times - that all but the hardcore quickly abandoned it in the face of overwhelming pushback.
   511. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5624396)
But, hey, with good-hearted, even-keeled, clear-headed leaders like Erdogan, Netanyahu, Khameni, Nasrallah, Assad and Trump running the show, I am sure nothing can go wrong.


Oh, how cute, Srul just woke up from his seven-year hibernation and noticed that, well, how about that, Syria's on fire!


I think he might be questioning why we seem to be stumbling INTO the conflagration... since that would seem to be what we appear to be doing, with growing numbers of "advisers" - though no one seems to be sharing exact numbers - apparently directly involved.

Remember? Your new guy isn't your old guy. Your new guy says that going into Iraq was a bad idea. Your new guy promised we wouldn't be doing that anymore.

Beyond our treaty obligations with Turkey - which don't require us to necessarily involve ourselves with any incursions any more than they required them to follow us into Iraq - only provide for a mutual defense if NATO collectively deems it necessary, I think the best course of action at this point is to just have the hose ready in case and say "glad it's not my house".
   512. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5624398)
Following up on the link in #490:
According to an extremely useful comprehensive spreadsheet compiled by Daily Kos, across 70 special elections in 2017, Democrats ran 10 points ahead of Clinton and 7 points ahead of Obama’s 2012 results. Those numbers have accelerated into 2018. Across 11 races, Democrats are running 23 points ahead of Clinton and 8 points ahead of Obama.

Historically speaking, special election results usually are somewhat predictive of midterm general election outcomes, though I don’t think anyone believes it’s realistic for Democrats to obtain a nationwide 23-point swing relative to Clinton’s numbers.

It’s particularly interesting that Democratic results thus far show a much larger overperformance relative to Clinton in 2016 than to Obama in 2012. People who’ve crunched the numbers in detail say that’s because some Trump voters really are crossing over to vote for Democrats.

...Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has decided to leave a number of formerly GOP-held seats vacant rather than schedule special elections his party might lose, national Republicans are pushing the panic button on an upcoming special House election in Pennsylvania, and GOP leadership is letting scandal-plagued Rep. Blake Farenthold stick around in his seat rather than risk a special election.
   513. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5624399)
Ah, I really remembered that story wrong.

It was some guy named Johnny Dunlap punching out Early Wynn when Wynn said something about not drinking with people like Dunlap's dark-skinned friend Willie Wells while they were at a racetrack in Cuba

As I recall James is ambivalent, but is critical of the author who relates this story for treating Dunlap as the hero.

Hmmm, I wonder what James had to say (true story) about the time that Wynn decked his 17-year old son after he knocked a line drive against the wall in batting practice?

When a writer asked Wynn about what had just happened, he said he'd do the same thing to his grandmother. Love that Old School hardball!
   514. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5624401)
E-1's in 2018 get a base pay of $1638 per month.


That's true only after 4 months. The number I cited was E1 with less than 4 months.
   515. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5624402)
You missed that some on the left, including apparently our own Zonk, have gone so far as to consider the term "Anglo-American" some sort of racist dog-whistle. It's such an absurd position - Obama used the term multiple times - that all but the hardcore quickly abandoned it in the face of overwhelming pushback.


I thought I made clear two pages ago that I was just burnishing my Presidential qualifications by trolling you? You know - by simply tossing out a link to something else, then hiding behind plausible deniability that I bore no responsibility for the content or point of such a thing?

I guess we are witnessing the birth of ZDS.

Sad!

Though, it is excellent news for the Zonk/Andy 2020 ticket -- we're already waaaaaayyyyyy ahead of Trump/Pence. Can we move up the election?
   516. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5624404)
Once Kelly was informed by the FBI that they would be unable to give Porter a security clearence, it was borderline criminal for Kelly to keep him in the job.

That's an overbid. The previous administration had a Chief of Naval Intelligence who was denied access to classified information for three years. That was a lot more difficult - some positions are easier to compartmentalize than others.
   517. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5624405)
I think he might be questioning why we seem to be stumbling INTO the conflagration... since that would seem to be what we appear to be doing, with growing numbers of "advisers" - though no one seems to be sharing exact numbers - apparently directly involved.

Remember? Your new guy isn't your old guy. Your new guy says that going into Iraq was a bad idea. Your new guy promised we wouldn't be doing that anymore.
Trump's Syria policy is worthy of ample criticism -- for example, why he kept McGurk in charge is one of the more bewildering staffing decisions over the past year (and clearly this has been a White House with no shortage of questionable personnel calls) -- but 80+ percent of the 500K Syrians who are dead and 7-8 million who are refugees are principally the result of Obama needing a "legacy."
   518. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5624407)
513

My dad hit a homer and a double off Early Wynn in an Army game circa 1944 or so.

He never said so, but I suspect my dad ended up on his ass shortly thereafter...
   519. Lassus Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:02 PM (#5624409)
   520. Srul Itza Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5624411)
Oh, how cute, Srul just woke up from his seven-year hibernation and noticed that, well, how about that, Syria's on fire!


I don't give a crap that Syria is on fire. Syria could burn to the ground, for all I care. And for all you care, as well. For my money, it was the nicest little war since Iran-Iraq.

What I care about is the consequences of Israelis in direct military conflict with Iran just over their northern border, with Russians possibly in the line of fire; Turks about to start bombing US Special forces; US and Russian Mercenaries fighting each other.

When the Balkans were just about slavs killing slavs, nobody really cared. When Russia, Austro-Hungary and Germany took an interest, thing went to hell all over the place.

Here we go again.
   521. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5624412)
BTW, do you know what this means, right?
U.S. forces killed scores of Russian mercenaries in Syria last week in what may be the deadliest clash between citizens of the former foes since the Cold War, according to one U.S. official and three Russians familiar with the matter.

More than 200 contract soldiers, mostly Russians fighting on behalf of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad, died in a failed attack on a base held by U.S. and mainly Kurdish forces in the oil-rich Deir Ezzor region, two of the Russians said. The U.S. official put the death toll in the fighting at about 100, with 200 to 300 injured, but was unable to say how many were Russians.
COLLUSION!!!
   522. BDC Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5624413)
but 80+ percent of the 500K Syrians who are dead and 7-8 million who are refugees are principally the result of Obama needing a "legacy."

The warrant is that Obama himself both could and should have prevented the conflict. I am not sure about the "could" (16+ years in Afghanistan would cast doubt on American ability to quell conflicts), and the "should" is a matter of political will and sacrifices entailed, over and above the basic morality of it.

I realize it's more than that: it seems the additional warrant is that there's no civil war in Syria without the Iran deal, but that's something for the historians to sort out at this point. The connections don't seem guaranteed to me.
   523. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5624414)
Girl Spicey spining like a top now. In response to the FBI Director contradicting the WH story about the Porter timeline. Apparently the entire problem rests with a couple of career bureaucrats in the WH Personnel Security Office. They got the info from the FBI but didn't pass it on. When asked the obvious follow up as to why, and what is being done with these individuals, her response was "that's beyond my purview to comment on it."
   524. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5624416)
You missed that some on the left, including apparently our own Zonk, have gone so far as to consider the term "Anglo-American" some sort of racist dog-whistle. It's such an absurd position - Obama used the term multiple times - that all but the hardcore quickly abandoned it in the face of overwhelming pushback.

I thought I made clear two pages ago that I was just burnishing my Presidential qualifications by trolling you? You know - by simply tossing out a link to something else, then hiding behind plausible deniability that I bore no responsibility for the content or point of such a thing?

No, you just further beclowned yourself by admitting that your initial stance was indefensible, while trying to obscure your reasons for posting it. In your case, it was implausible deniability.
   525. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5624417)
I don't give a crap that Syria is on fire. Syria could burn to the ground, for all I care. For my money, it was the nicest little war since Iran-Iraq.

What I care about is the consequences of Israelis in direct military conflict with Iran just over their northern border, with Russians possibly in the line of fire; Turks about to start bombing US Special forces; US and Russian Mercenaries fighting each other.
So let's understand a little better: You have loved this war in Syria but are now peeved because it's no longer going as planned?

Hey, how about going back to sleep for another seven years?
   526. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5624418)
That's an overbid. The previous administration had a Chief of Naval Intelligence who was denied access to classified information for three years. That was a lot more difficult - some positions are easier to compartmentalize than others.


Of course, Clapper points out the flaw in his own point. Probably a symptom of ZDS.

A fuller accounting - complete with, wow... look at that! Congressional oversight! --

The career pilot had only been in charge of the Office of Naval Intelligence as the deputy CNO for Information Warfare (N2/N6) mere weeks before the DoJ had approached Navy leadership and presented suspicions Branch had committed crimes related to GDMA, former Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus told USNI News on Friday.

“When this first started, we at Navy were assured by the Department of Justice that the evidence was very strong against Adm. Branch and a decision would be reached in a very short time – a few weeks,” Mabus said.

Based on that assessment, Mabus decided to restrict Branch’s access to classified information in late 2013 and the service issued an announcement to that end to the press.

Instead of a few weeks, DoJ kept the option to prosecute open for years with Branch in limbo. Following a January 2016 front-page story in The Washington Post, Branch became the most visible member of the service tied to the Fat Leonard case and drew criticism from the public and Congress.

In a hearing last year, Mabus defended Branch in response to criticism from Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa).

“I’ve been checking with Gen. (James) Clapper, the head of national intelligence, to ask him if there was any degradation of naval intelligence, any concern about how we’re operating or the quality of information that we are gathering or how we are processing that. And I have been assured that there’s not,” Mabus said.
“We continued to check on [Branch’s status] over and over and over again and got nothing.”

On Friday, Mabus was critical of DoJ in the matter.

“I have to say the way that Justice handled this was not fair to Admiral Branch and it was not fair to the Navy,” Mabus said.
   527. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5624419)
More local political news ... North Dakota!

GOP Desperate for New Candidate In North Dakota

“Top Republicans are pleading with Rep. Kevin Cramer (R-ND) to reconsider his decision to spurn the U.S. Senate race in North Dakota, fearing the party is on track to blow a prime pickup opportunity,” the Washington Examiner reports.

“White House officials and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) are making another run at Cramer after internal opposition research on state Sen. Tom Campbell, the leading Republican to run in his place, turned up troubling information they worry could be a treasure trove for Democratic Sen. Heidi Heitkamp.”
   528. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5624420)
BTW, it's kinda funny that suddenly a bloke like TDF demands to know why Congress isn't investigating someone no longer in the government or running for higher office.
So you're just going to go ahead and assume rumors of wrongdoing...from unnamed sources...reported over a year ago...by publications like the Washington Times, Washington Examiner, Free Beacon, and Foreign Policy...are 100% true.

I mean, here's a quote from your article:
"For the FBI to evidently find something in Mr. Rhodes' background that led it to potentially deny him a security clearance only to have Mr. Rhodes work at the highest levels of the Obama administration shakes the entire clearance process to the core," the lawmakers wrote.
"Evidently find something". "Potentially deny security clearance".

Yeah, sounds exactly like the Rob Porter situation.
   529. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5624421)
That's true only after 4 months. The number I cited was E1 with less than 4 months.
Got it, that wasn't on the chart I found. Still, they aren't going to get the <4 month pay for a whole year, so the minimum an E-1 would earn (even if they somehow managed to stay an E-1 for a whole year) is 4*1514 + 8*1638, or 19160 base pay, along with another ~23K in housing and subsistence.

The US takes very good care of our junior enlisted these days.
   530. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5624422)
No, you just further beclowned yourself by admitting that your initial stance was indefensible, while trying to obscure your reasons for posting it. In your case, it was implausible deniability.


So you're saying that I should, instead, linked to Britain First or tweeted some random Klansman or Neo-Nazi?

Is that how the plausible deniability works?

Or is it actually ZDS?
   531. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5624423)
The warrant is that Obama himself both could and should have prevented the conflict. I am not sure about the "could" (16+ years in Afghanistan would cast doubt on American ability to quell conflicts), and the "should" is a matter of political will and sacrifices entailed, over and above the basic morality of it.

I realize it's more than that: it seems the additional warrant is that there's no civil war in Syria without the Iran deal, but that's something for the historians to sort out at this point. The connections don't seem guaranteed to me.
To be more precise, BDC, the warrant, which folks like me have said for years but is now out in the open, is that Obama prioritized normalizing relations with the Iranian regime, which included the nuke deal.
   532. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5624424)
Based on that assessment, Mabus decided to restrict Branch’s access to classified information in late 2013 and the service issued an announcement to that end to the press.


That precise point was brought up to Girl Spicey. When asked if people in the WH with temporary clearences are having their access to classified information limited, she responded that she is not at liberty to confirm nor deny anyone in the WH has a temporary clearence.
   533. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5624427)
To be more precise, BDC, the warrant, which folks like me have said for years but is now out in the open, is that Obama prioritized normalizing relations with the Iranian regime, which included the nuke deal.


"If only we bombed Iran enough then Syria wouldn't be a problem."
   534. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5624428)
You missed that some on the left, including apparently our own Zonk, have gone so far as to consider the term "Anglo-American" some sort of racist dog-whistle.

There's nothing racist or dog-whistly about the term "Anglo-American" law. It's just that some of its current practitioners occasionally try to give it a bad name. But then so did Roger Taney and John W. Davis, and Sessions, too, will pass.
   535. Greg K Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:13 PM (#5624429)
Beyond our treaty obligations with Turkey - which don't require us to necessarily involve ourselves with any incursions any more than they required them to follow us into Iraq - only provide for a mutual defense if NATO collectively deems it necessary, I think the best course of action at this point is to just have the hose ready in case and say "glad it's not my house".

A few weeks ago our university hosted a talk given by a former diplomatic/military attaché stationed in Turkey. My takeaway was that the Kurds have now stepped into the old ISIS role of "people that the nations in the region are all united against". Which seems to leave the US (and Canada as well, who I believe has support personnel working with the Kurds) in the awkward position of having to ignobly bail out or get caught up in the coming storm.
   536. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5624430)
GOP Desperate for New Candidate In North Dakota

If only Roger Maris were alive. Everyone loved Roger Maris.
   537. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5624432)
To be more precise, BDC, the warrant, which folks like me have said for years but is now out in the open, is that Obama prioritized normalizing relations with the Iranian regime, which included the nuke deal.
Yeah, why did Obama change tactics? Thirty years of treating them as part of the Axis of Evil worked so swimmingly, after all.
   538. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5624433)
So you're just going to go ahead and assume rumors of wrongdoing...from unnamed sources...reported over a year ago...by publications like the Washington Times, Washington Examiner, Free Beacon, and Foreign Policy.
That's because the administration was stonewalling. We didn't know why he wasn't granted a security clearance initially and then later how he managed to score one.

And while Rob Porter sure seems like a loathsome SOB, at least he didn't have enough influence in his job to gleefully punch in the face Israel and our Sunni Arab allies.
   539. zenbitz Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5624434)
But, hey, with good-hearted, even-keeled, clear-headed leaders like Erdogan, Netanyahu, Khameni, Nasrallah, Assad and Trump running the show, I am sure nothing can go wrong.


Ugh, JE was right, Obama should have deployed the 82nd, 101st, and 1st AD the moment things got sticky! Serious boots on the ground would have shored up that situation, pronto!.
   540. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:17 PM (#5624436)
Yeah, why did Obama change tactics? Thirty years of treating them as part of the Axis of Evil worked so swimmingly, after all.
LOL. Is that also what you said in 1983 WRT the Soviet Union?
   541. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5624439)
Ugh, JE was right, Obama should have deployed the 82nd, 101st, and 1st AD the moment things got sticky! Serious boots on the ground would have shored up that situation, pronto!.
It's so adorable when, every four to six months, some of the lefties here suddenly pretend to care about foreign policy.
   542. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5624442)
And while Rob Porter sure seems like a loathsome SOB, at least he didn't have enough influence in his job to gleefully punch in the face Israel and our Sunni Arab allies.
You're right. If not for caving in to them, Iran wouldn't have gotten a nuclear bomb for 12 months, instead of the 4 1/2 years (and counting) we're at now.
   543. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5624444)
Got it, that wasn't on the chart I found. Still, they aren't going to get the <4 month pay for a whole year, so the minimum an E-1 would earn (even if they somehow managed to stay an E-1 for a whole year) is 4*1514 + 8*1638, or 19160 base pay, along with another ~23K in housing and subsistence.

The US takes very good care of our junior enlisted these days.


Things may have changed, but when I was in, E1s had to live in the base barracks. If he was married, the wife had to live off base, and no housing allowance or meal was available.
   544. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5624445)
I put some right wing talk radio on this morning. They are talking up a war between Iran and Iraq. They seem eager. Fun stuff.
   545. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5624446)
That's an overbid. The previous administration had a Chief of Naval Intelligence who was denied access to classified information for three years. That was a lot more difficult - some positions are easier to compartmentalize than others.

#526: Of course, Clapper points out the flaw in his own point. Probably a symptom of ZDS.

A fuller accounting - complete with, wow... look at that! Congressional oversight! --


Zonk apparently doesn't understand the issue here. The Navy was able to work around the Chief of Naval Intelligence not having a security clearance for 3 years. It'd be much easier to compartmentalize a WH position, especially one dealing mostly with domestic issues. So, those suggesting that the WH has behaved in some quasi-criminal manner in regard to security clearances are exaggerating for political advantage. Now, the fact that the Navy Admiral was ultimately cleared after those 3 long years, and the Navy was apparently misled about the case, does say something about the Obama Justice Department, but that wasn't the issue being addressed.
   546. BrianBrianson Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5624448)
If anyone had a non-moronic suggestion for something positive to do about Syria, I'd listen.
   547. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5624449)
Based on that assessment, Mabus decided to restrict Branch’s access to classified information in late 2013 and the service issued an announcement to that end to the press.



That precise point was brought up to Girl Spicey. When asked if people in the WH with temporary clearences are having their access to classified information limited, she responded that she is not at liberty to confirm nor deny anyone in the WH has a temporary clearence.


Of course - the story isn't quite clear, either... was Branch denied security clearance? Or did he already have it and Mabus simply decided to revoke it out an abundance of caution?
   548. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5624450)
LOL. Is that also what you said in 1983 WRT the Soviet Union?
You mean when Reagan armed the Mujahadeen to such great long-term success?
   549. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5624451)
You're right. If not for caving in to them, Iran wouldn't have gotten a nuclear bomb for 12 months, instead of the 4 1/2 years (and counting) we're at now.
Wow, the talking points are so old and soiled, you can't even recite them properly.
   550. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5624452)
GOP Desperate for New Candidate In North Dakota and #512...


I can't understand why the GOP is having such tsuris in a center-right country where the generic ballot is down to single digits and the Democrats are doubling down on all those radical things that cost them elections.
   551. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5624454)
It'd be much easier to compartmentalize a WH position, especially one dealing mostly with domestic issues.


As I understand his position, Porter's job was to review every classified document meant for the Prez to decide what he needed to see and what he didn't. Are you claiming it would be easy to compartmentalize THAT? Or is the reporting on his position and responsibilities incorrect?
   552. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5624456)
Zonk apparently doesn't understand the issue here. The Navy was able to work around the Chief of Naval Intelligence not having a security clearance for 3 years. It'd be much easier to compartmentalize a WH position, especially one dealing mostly with domestic issues. So, those suggesting that the WH has behaved in some quasi-criminal manner in regard to security clearances are exaggerating for political advantage. Now, the fact that the Navy Admiral was ultimately cleared after those 3 long years, and the Navy was apparently misled about the case, does say something about the Obama Justice Department, but that wasn't the issue being addressed.


Man, that ZDS really really has a deleterious impact on cognitive function!

As Zonk understands it, Mabus decided to restrict Branch’s access to classified information

Is Clapper saying that Kelly also decided to restrict Porter's access to classified information, too?

Does Clapper's ZDS also prevent him from understanding Mabus' "we kept asking!" vs Wray's "we presented our final report last November"?

Is ZDS communicable?
   553. Stormy JE Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5624457)
You mean when Reagan armed the Mujahadeen to such great long-term success?
Oh, FFS, that's your idea of a comeback?

#StickToSomethingElse
   554. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5624458)
If anyone had a non-moronic suggestion for something positive to do about Syria, I'd listen.


We do have an expert builder of walls at the helm....
   555. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5624459)
We do have an expert builder of walls at the helm....


Putting everyone in Syria behind their own personal wall might work.
   556. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:31 PM (#5624461)
It's so adorable when, every four to six months, some of the lefties here suddenly pretend to care about foreign policy.


Again, with the Zonk is more qualified to be President than Trump!

My cup of endorsements overfloweth.
   557. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5624463)
This is bullshit. Angus is overqualified to sit on committees and roll over for Trump.
Kansas officials say a dog whose owner filed for the animal to run for governor will be disqualified, even though there are no state statutes covering candidates' qualifications.

The Kansas City Star reports that Terran Woolley of Hutchinson, Kan., entered his three-year-old wire terrier, Angus, in the race after news reports surfaced that the state does not have requirements governing who can run for the office.

“A dog will not be allowed to file and put its name on the ballot,” said Bryan Caskey, director of elections for the Kansas secretary of State’s office.
   558. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5624464)
Things may have changed, but when I was in, E1s had to live in the base barracks. If he was married, the wife had to live off base, and no housing allowance or meal was available.
Yeah, that's all changed.
If you are married to a non-military member, and/or you have children, your spouse and children are considered to be "dependents" by the military.

The military requires you to provide adequate support (which includes housing) to your dependents. Because of this, if you are married, you receive a housing allowance, at the "with dependent" rate, even if you are living in the single dormitories/barracks.

Living in the barracks/dormitories is mandatory during basic training and job-school and your dependents are not allowed to travel to basic training and/or job school at government expense. During these periods you receive BAH for the area that your dependents reside.
   559. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5624466)
Talk about way too many words for a simple answer, but still ... Why there’s so much chaos in the Trump administration

But the White House’s staffing crisis runs deeper. The Washington Post counts 37 high-level Trump aides or advisers who’ve resigned or been fired, including a chief of staff, multiple agency heads, and — importantly, given the administration’s need to build a bench for its future — deputy directors of the National Economic Council, the National Security Council, and the Domestic Policy Council, as well as multiple deputy chiefs of staff. Many of these jobs remain open today. Many more resignations are expected.

As the New York Times’ Peter Baker shows, using data compiled by the Brookings Institute, this turnover rate is unprecedented:

Trump’s 34 percent turnover rate in his first year is more than three times as high as President Barack Obama’s in the same period and twice as high as President Ronald Reagan’s, which until now was the modern record-holder. Of 12 positions deemed most central to the president, only five are still filled by the same person as when Mr. Trump took office.


But what, what could possibly be the problem? Won't someone do a root cause analysis? Why is there so much chaos in the Trump administration?

Oh yeah, the answer is right there in the question. I love self answering questions.
   560. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5624467)
Wray's "we presented our final report last November"?


Girl Spicey's interpretation is that sending the report to the WH Personnel Security Offie (WHPSO) is not the same thing as sending it to the White House. When she said yesterday that the White house was still waiting for the final report on Porter, she mean that the WHPSO han't released it to the hite House.

I don't think even she believes that gobbledegook. Certainly the WH press corps didn't.
   561. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5624469)
Yeah, that's all changed.
If you are married to a non-military member, and/or you have children, your spouse and children are considered to be "dependents" by the military.

The military requires you to provide adequate support (which includes housing) to your dependents. Because of this, if you are married, you receive a housing allowance, at the "with dependent" rate, even if you are living in the single dormitories/barracks.

Living in the barracks/dormitories is mandatory during basic training and job-school and your dependents are not allowed to travel to basic training and/or job school at government expense. During these periods you receive BAH for the area that your dependents reside.


Good to know.
   562. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5624471)
Sean Hannity found secret sperm in the Obama portrait!

“Controversy surrounding Kehinde Wiley’s wildly non-traditional portrait of the Commander-in-Chief broke out within minutes of its unveiling,” the article, written by “Hannity staff” asserted, “with industry insiders claiming the artist secretly inserted his trademark technique -concealing images of sperm within his paintings.”


Traceable back to a 4chan

The Hannity Sperm Portrait nonsense was started THIS MORNING by racist 4Chan trolls, w/ the express purpose of "getting it in the news."

The post calls the Obamas "king and queen n****r."


Does Hannity have security clearance, given how much the President seems to rely on his counsel?

EDIT: I will also await the literary merits of a 4chan post before rendering verdict on the necessity of **** versus IGGE
   563. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:38 PM (#5624473)
If anyone had a non-moronic suggestion for something positive to do about Syria, I'd listen.


Apply the first rules of holes? When you are deep in one, stop digging.

Seriously though the first thing to do is recognize the limits of American power and respect them. Figure out what you CAN do and think about doing that. I doubt there is anything we can do militarily that can help the situation, so I don't think you can just think of it as a pure military problem. Similarly I don't think there are any short term diplomatic initiatives that are worth much.

I realize that "stop being stupid" is not much of a positive suggestion, but it is what I have at a high level. Sorry.
   564. BrianBrianson Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5624477)
Ultimately, that reads a lot like "Come up with a plan" - which I guess, technically, is a kind of plan.
   565. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5624478)
Trump's Syria policy is worthy of ample criticism -- for example, why he kept McGurk in charge is one of the more bewildering staffing decisions over the past year (and clearly this has been a White House with no shortage of questionable personnel calls) -- but 80+ percent of the 500K Syrians who are dead and 7-8 million who are refugees are principally the result of Obama needing a "legacy." GWB's daddy issues resulting in a needless and stupid war, that destabilized the entire region.


FTFY
   566. Count Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5624480)
Blaming the Syrian civil war on the Iran deal is so nuts that JE isn't bothering to explain the causality.
   567. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5624481)
Blaming the Syrian civil war on the Iran deal is so nuts that JE isn't bothering to explain the causality.


This is kind of mean -- current standing and Orange preferences/Orange Hannity pillow talk prevent him from banging his favorite 15 year old drum, so he's kind of stuck with lesser toys.
   568. Count Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5624488)
Y'all seem to be right about the origin of Judeo-Christian as a term (addressing discussion from this morning). I am under the impression it was used more specifically to exclude Muslims in last 20 years but don't have any specific examples off the top of my head.
   569. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5624489)
Ultimately, that reads a lot like "Come up with a plan" - which I guess, technically, is a kind of plan.


Well sure, except it is "Come up with a plan, but this, that, and the other thing are out, so try something different." I mean I could write up a giant treatise, but what is the point? Mostly it will be offer humanitarian aid and try to deescalate the situation. The first priority is to help out the refugees and stop things from getting worse, because you have to start by acknowledging that no matter whose fault it is (and no it is not all Obama's fault, that's dumb) we can't fix it right now, so at least try not to make things worse.

   570. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5624491)
As my running mate Andy noted last page, Bibi's been referred for indictment - apparently, he's got his own Deep State problems.

I noted in last week's thread that this was expected - but at the time - the expectation was that only the first count was expected to be recommended. The second count - which is a bit bigger a deal - was up in the air.

Gotta love the "witch hunt" stuff though!
   571. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5624492)
Traceable back to a 4chan
The post calls the Obamas "king and queen n****r."



Like "Huckleberry Finn," the use of that word is also intrinsic to 4chan's central theme.


Blaming the Syrian civil war on the Iran deal is so nuts that JE isn't bothering to explain the causality.


If you don't understand why the Iran deal caused drone crashes, the Bitcoin plunge and JE's shin splints, it's your own fault for parachuting in on foreign policy every 4 to 6 months.
   572. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 03:59 PM (#5624495)
As my running mate Andy noted last page, Bibi's been referred for indictment - apparently, he's got his own Deep State problems.


Not only was I not picked as VP, but my Coke deserving posts were ignored. That's it, I am voting for the other candidate!
   573. BDC Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5624498)
In the regular army, do people stay at E-1 for a long time before promotion? In the National Guard everybody seems to be an E-4.
   574. BrianBrianson Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5624499)
It's not clear to me that humanitarian aid, or resettling refugees, is actually all helpful overall. Humanitarian aid often ends up largely in the hands of the various armies. Refugees are likely to be full of the wealthy/educated, those who'd make the peace - them leaving, especially for the quasi-long term might encourage fighting.

And, of course, deescalate is a goal, it's not an action. Both Obama's and Trump's administrations have offered some military aid because inaction/military inaction was letting ISIS thrive. And while they're not any kind of threat to the West (or certainly not, the way they're played up), they suck really hard for Syria.

Which is not offering answers, because I don't know them. But I don't see that anyone else does either. And I'm weary of simple thinking. Thirty years later, Somalia may be close to re-assembly. I'm not sure we could've made that any better, either.
   575. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5624501)
Quoted by Zonk, #562:
Sean Hannity found secret sperm in the Obama portrait!

“Controversy surrounding Kehinde Wiley’s wildly non-traditional portrait of the Commander-in-Chief broke out within minutes of its unveiling,” the article, written by “Hannity staff” asserted, “with industry insiders claiming the artist secretly inserted his trademark technique-concealing images of sperm within his paintings.”



I'm intrigued by HannityCo's use of the phrase "industry insiders."

Would these be industry insiders from the sperm donation business? Or industry insiders within the vast presidential portraits racket?
   576. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5624503)
Not only was I not picked as VP, but my Coke deserving posts were ignored. That's it, I am voting for the other candidate!


Careful... if I can go there with LIDDLE DAVIE, don't think a LIL MOUSE is outside my capabilities.

In any case, my spokespice provides my official response

Zonk values each and every member of the Make America Grate Again team and has a special bond with all his supporters. Over the course of a long and grueling campaign, it is understandable that a candidate under such pressure, with the hopes and dreams of so many riding on his shoulders, he may occasionally misspeak or attribute something incorrectly. However, this is not one of those times just like all of the other not one of those times, all of which add up to none of those of times because he's got the greatest memory. The best memory. As Zonk has clearly explained, he discussed Prime Minister Netanyahu's pending indictment in private with Rachel Maddow long before now and if you don't believe him, just ask Rachel Maddow. Andy was there. Zonk continues to look forward to working with Mouse in a variety of ways to help Make America Grate Again.
   577. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5624504)
It's not clear to me that humanitarian aid, or resettling refugees, is actually all helpful overall.


I suspect the refugees have a different opinion, including those I know personally. Should I ask them?
   578. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5624506)
I'm intrigued by HannityCo's use of the phrase "industry insiders."

Would these be industry insiders from the sperm donation business? Or industry insiders within the vast presidential portraits racket?


Possible it starts with a C, ends with an S and has ********** in the middle.
   579. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5624508)
You're right. If not for caving in to them, Iran wouldn't have gotten a nuclear bomb for 12 months, instead of the 4 1/2 years (and counting) we're at now.

Wow, the talking points are so old and soiled, you can't even recite them properly.
True or false: Iran was within 12 months of creating a bomb in 2013. True or false: It's now almost 4 1/2 years since an agreement with Iran over their nuclear program.
LOL. Is that also what you said in 1983 WRT the Soviet Union?

You mean when Reagan armed the Mujahadeen to such great long-term success?
Oh, FFS, that's your idea of a comeback?
If you aren't talking about Russian invading Afghanistan, then what he hell are you talking about?

Please, stay the JE we all know and love - keep quoting articles from the worst corners of the internet, keep fearing for the imminent nuclear holocaust from Iran, keep accusing everyone within earshot of anti-Semitism. Hell, I'm surprised you haven't accused the Israeli police of wanting to destroy the state yet.
   580. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5624510)
And, of course, deescalate is a goal, it's not an action. Both Obama's and Trump's administrations have offered some military aid because inaction/military inaction was letting ISIS thrive. And while they're not any kind of threat to the West (or certainly not, the way they're played up), they suck really hard for Syria.


If you have the wrong goal then the best plan in the world will lead you poorly. I suspect that is much of the problem, poorly defined goals, like "something positive to do about Syria". That doesn't even rise to motivational poster level of goal, sadly, and it is still better than what the Trump administration seems to have in mind.
   581. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5624512)
True or false: Iran was within 12 months of creating a bomb in 2013. True or false: It's now almost 4 1/2 years since an agreement with Iran over their nuclear program.


Fake Question. So Unfair!

40 minutes doesn't mean what it once did... October no longer comes after September, and the following January no longer follows the previous November. And you want to throw YEARS into the mix?
   582. BrianBrianson Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:24 PM (#5624519)

I suspect the refugees have a different opinion, including those I know personally. Should I ask them?


I mean, feel free, but I don't see the point. They certainly can't demonstrate that it's the case, and of course, that it's better for them to get the hell out of Dodge doesn't mean it's better for Dodge, or the people who remain in Dodge. Them coming to America may well exacerbate and extend the Syrian Civil War - doesn't mean they're making the wrong choice, necessarily, but removing the voices for reason and peace from a civil war probably doesn't ameliorate it.
   583. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:42 PM (#5624531)
Them coming to America may well exacerbate and extend the Syrian Civil War


It might also cure cancer or enable the discovery of anti-gravity, so long as we are randomly asserting things.

The point, which I guess you missed, is figure out what you can do. We can help individuals. I think we should, because in the absence of a compelling reason not to doing so is better than not doing so.

Don't try to boil the ocean, either you fail or you end up using all your nukes*. Instead see what you CAN accomplish and try that. It may not solve the problem, but it is "something positive", which was the original question.

* I am aware even using all one's nukes may not end up boiling the ocean. Get over it. :)
   584. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:42 PM (#5624532)
Breaking news: West employed nuclear-spying lizards, claims Iranian official
Hassan Firuzabadi, senior military advisor to supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, claimed Western spies used the reptiles to get better insight into the Iranian nuclear weapons program.
This bears watching. Serious questions might be raised about our own lack of lizard-detection capabilities and the curious absence of lizard-based funding in the president's budget proposal.
   585. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:48 PM (#5624535)
" MR. PRESIDENT. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE A LIZARD GAP!!"
   586. Morty Causa Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5624536)
I always forget the people involved, but the story goes that a white player A refuses to have a drink with a black player. White player B sees this and punches out white player A.

James concludes by asking who the bigger jerk is, A or B?


Player B, of course. Hitting is wrong unless there is a threat. Now, Player B is fully justified in not drinking with player B, or cursing him out, or asking to be traded, or a lot of other stuff, but assault and battery--no.

If you think A is the bigger jerk, then consider if A would be a woman. Would that make you have a different answer? If so, why? In this specific case, why does it matter that it's (presumably) just men involved and not women, or transwhatevers, or minors, or elders even? You draw the line at violence when violence is not responding to violence or the immediate threat of it.
   587. BrianBrianson Posted: February 13, 2018 at 04:57 PM (#5624540)
I don't think that's really right. You're ignoring the question because you don't know the answer. I mean, I don't either, but accepting you don't know the answer is critical to an accurate assessment of what you can do. And what you understand of what you do - we don't help individuals in isolation. And this is at least sometimes true aid - we know, for instance, that sending food to famines can tank an economy, but moralistic dipshits get uppity about sending money, so when you screw over Peter to feed Paul, you can't just ignore context. This may well be true when you're sending food, medicine, etc. to rebel and government armies - it's quite possible that's worse than nothing, and you're just extending the war, and providing the support those armies need to inflict all sorts of negative things on the populace.

It's easy to backpat when you choose what to look at, and set goals along those lines.
   588. Srul Itza Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5624542)
A timely article:

Syria's War Is Fueling Three More Conflicts



When an Israeli jet crashed after being shot down over Syria over the weekend, it marked a serious escalation in the Syrian Civil War. But it also reflected an ongoing reality, one that is growing more dangerous: Syria’s war encompasses at least three other international conflicts, each of which are heating up.
   589. -- Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5624549)
but calling them a ######, with the force of society and history behind you that ensures you can do so with impunity, may actually be worse than punching them when they can punch back.


Nah, you vastly overrate the degree to which each of us carries around the "force of society and history." And also the degree to which only some history is carried around.

Under your analysis, wouldn't black people carry around the "force of history" of being involved in proportionately more street crime than white people? But that can't be right, so .... where does that leave us?

In point of fact, we're all pretty much independent agents -- which is part of the greatness of America. We come here, or our ancestors came here, to reinvent themselves and to throw off the shackles of "society and history." Yours is the over-intellectualized perspective, which most people don't really hold to. You and yours bring to the table the same perspective to race relations that you bring to baseball. The vast majority of baseball fans just want to enjoy the game -- and so do the vast majority of citizens.
   590. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5624550)
Hassan Firuzabadi, senior military advisor to supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, claimed Western spies used the reptiles to get better insight into the Iranian nuclear weapons program.


It's amazing that this took so long to be exposed. This secret program goes back to the late 1990s.
   591. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5624551)

What's the significance of "Anglo-American tradition"? Isn't that just a different way of referring to the common law tradition?

You missed that some on the left, including apparently our own Zonk, have gone so far as to consider the term "Anglo-American" some sort of racist dog-whistle. It's such an absurd position - Obama used the term multiple times - that all but the hardcore quickly abandoned it in the face of overwhelming pushback.
Actually, the TPM story that Zonk linked to said that Sessions said "Anglo-American heritage" rather than "tradition," and claimed that "heritage" was a code word. (TPM also claimed that even talking about sheriffs was racist because in the civil rights era southern sheriffs were racist.) But, you have to remember that the left is nuts; Timothy Noah of Slate once argued that calling Obama skinny was racist, and that failure to recognize this required one to be "clueless."
   592. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:25 PM (#5624552)
lol at ^^^^ lecturing blacks on how everybody is an "individual agent" and that the "force of history" is nothing. I think you should try out your theory! Go walk into Bedstuy and start yelling.

Actually, the TPM story that Zonk linked to said that Sessions said "Anglo-American heritage"


I think it's pretty obvious that Jeff Sessions is a racist and that the office of sheriff is institutional racism. I think it's pretty likely he thought he was talking to his Klan buddies down in 'Bama and wasn't filmed and being shared with a national audience and that using the word "heritage" was part of that. Or, he didn't think it was a big deal. He is clueless on many levels.
   593. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:30 PM (#5624553)
The anthro hypothetical is somewhat similar to that Bill James story isn't it?

I always forget the people involved, but the story goes that a white player A refuses to have a drink with a black player. White player B sees this and punches out white player A.

James concludes by asking who the bigger jerk is, A or B?


As James concludes, they're both jerks. Obviously B is the bigger jerk. And B is the more dangerous one. A knows he's a racist jackass whose actions may provoke violence, which is quite bad. But B manages to be worse: B actually thinks he's a do-gooder with the moral high ground; thus B is the one who is both (a) breathtakingly self unaware and (b) capable of doing violence.
   594. BDC Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5624555)
WEST EMPLOYED NUCLEAR-SPYING LIZARDS

Are they real lizards, or are they lizard robots? 'Cause in Eye in the Sky they had those little robot insect drones and that was awesome.
   595. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5624556)
I'm onto Michael Medved now -- he's ready to move on past racism. Slavery was bad but look how good blacks have it now compared to then!

Holy #### I now realize why the stupids are stupid. You take middling or lower than average IQ white people growing up where I grew up and you let them listen to this right-wing media all the time and before you know it you've got your "god and your guns" type clingers and deplorables.
   596. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5624558)
and before you know it you've got your "god and your guns" type clingers and deplorables.


And Dancing Monkeys.
   597. -- Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5624559)
lol at ^^^^ lecturing blacks on how everybody is an "individual agent" and that the "force of history" is nothing. I think you should try out your theory! Go walk into Bedstuy and start yelling.


I've walked in BedStuy when it was far more dangerous than it is today.
   598. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:55 PM (#5624562)
I've walked in BedStuy when it was far more dangerous than it is today.


Me too, after getting off the C train at Nostrand and walking the wrong way for a few blocks. I knew the weight of history was against me and turned back towards the more familiar ground of Crown Heights.
   599. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 13, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5624563)
Professor Uses 'N-Word,' Student Shouts 'F-You,' 'Free Speech' Class Canceled at Princeton

Students at Princeton learn a lesson about how free speech works at the modern university.

10:10 PM, Feb 12, 2018 | By Adam Rubenstein


Lol.
   600. -- Posted: February 13, 2018 at 06:03 PM (#5624565)
A male student of color stood up, inches from professor Rosen’s face and shouted “FUCK YOU,” this witness claimed. Just before that, a female student of color had shouted at Rosen, as the first was approaching, “do you feel safe right now.” “There was no physical contact,” this witness claims, though at the time the student feared there might be.


LOL.





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