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Monday, March 12, 2018

OTP 12 March 2018: Trevor Bauer thinks Major League Baseball trying to silence him on Twitter

Last February, Bauer made waves on Twitter when he argued over politics with his followers. He tweeted that almost all of the Indians supported Donald Trump and told another user they were “welcome to quit life.”

Bauer has been much calmer as of late and that could be because MLB stepped in. The 27-year-old hasn’t tweeted that much this offseason and when he does it’s been about things like the Olympics and his training.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 12, 2018 at 08:17 AM | 1718 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cleveland indians, off topic, politics, twitter

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   301. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5637402)
That's pure partisan hysteria.


If you were paying attention, Monkey, (and I think you are) you'd have to admit that many Republicans want Trump gone, too. But admitting that would interrupt your Monkey Dance.
   302. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5637403)
Further evidence that Trump has already abandoned actual governing for Campaigning, at which he is quite competent, in a slimy and deplorable fashion:
President Donald Trump's longtime personal aide John McEntee was fired because he is currently under investigation by the Department of Homeland Security for serious financial crimes, a source familiar with his firing told CNN.

The charges are not related to the President, the source said.

Minutes after news of his departure broke, the Trump campaign announced McEntee would be joining the reelection effort as a senior adviser for campaign operations.
Source: CNN

More "perfectly normal, nothing to see here, you unhinged TDS sufferers" to follow!
   303. DavidFoss Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5637404)
There is no "scandal engulfing" the administration. That's pure partisan hysteria.

:-) All of this is normal, eh?

I'd rather have a boring, competent, far-right executive branch than this. I'm ready for President Pence. Democrats can wait until they actually win an election.
   304. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5637408)
:-) All of this is normal, eh?


Nah -- the TDS is highly abnormal, which is kind of my running thesis here, if people couldn't tell. From the perspective of the TDS-afflicted, yeah, "scandal" is "engulfing" the administration -- but that's an illusion.
   305. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5637409)
If you were paying attention, Monkey, (and I think you are) you'd have to admit that many Republicans want Trump gone, too.


Then that fends off the talking point, coming soon to a message board near you, that the conclusion of the House Intelligence Committee re Russian "assistance" to Trump was motivated by bias.
   306. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5637416)
Then that fends off the talking point, coming soon to a message board near you, that the conclusion of the House Intelligence Committee re Russian "assistance" to Trump was motivated by bias.


No, it doesn't, Monkey. The Devin Nunes of the world aren't the R's I'm talking about.

edit...Nunes is the partisan hack in your example.
   307. DavidFoss Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5637418)
Nunes is the partisan hack in your example.

What is Nunes getting out of this? He's a young guy with young kids. Is he going to pull a Jason Chaffetz and jump to Fox or become a lobbyist somewhere?
   308. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5637423)
Nunes is the partisan hack in your example.


How can you say that? The man is a public servant, going to work every morning and doing the best he can for as many people as he can.

Nunes: No Evidence of Trump-Russia Collusion, But 'Clear Links' Between Clinton Campaign & Russians
   309. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5637425)
More perfectly normal machinations, how every President behaves:
@JenGriffinFNC 2 hours ago

.@JohnRobertsFox: WH source tells Fox News John Kelly called Tillerson Friday to tell him POTUS wanted him to step aside. Tillerson asked if POTUS could wait for him to get back from his Africa trip to pull the trigger. Tillerson landed 4 am Andrews AFB. POTUS pulled trigger.
Reports are that Tillerson was blindsided/cut out on the NK announcement, and Trump knew he wouldn't play ball if still around. Far better to placate Kim than maintain continuity at State!
   310. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:00 PM (#5637429)
What is Nunes getting out of this? He's a young guy with young kids. Is he going to pull a Jason Chaffetz and jump to Fox or become a lobbyist somewhere?


Who knows what his gamble will reap? Do you think he (or anyone) believes Trump is good for the country?
They're all toadies and cowards.
   311. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5637431)
That's pure partisan hysteria.


Partisan hysteria, backed by many indictments, guilty pleas, and on going investigation, and huge amounts of controversy in addition to a President that is unpopular with the people and considered to be untrustworthy by them.

But sure, hysteria.

Keep the guttering flame of your hopes alive by continually blowing hot air at them. It will help. I promise.


EDIT: Stupid Typo (Thanks Gef!)
   312. PreservedFish Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5637432)
Tillerson asked if POTUS could wait for him to get back from his Africa trip to pull the trigger. Tillerson landed 4 am Andrews AFB. POTUS pulled trigger.


I was wondering if he had returned and, if not, if he would need to fly back as a civilian on a commercial airline.
   313. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5637434)
So Stretchy, are you pretty excited about how your guy (Trump) sold out (caved in) to the NRA? I bet so!
   314. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5637435)
guilty pleases,


And not complemented by guilty thank-yous. That's the real scandal.
   315. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5637437)
The Onion:
Morale Low At State Department After Only Employee Fired
   316. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5637438)
Partisan HYSTERIA!!!!!

A federal just said that Paul Manafort “runs a significant risk of spending the rest of his life in prison and the evidence against him by special counsel Robert Mueller’s office seems strong,” Politico reports.

Said U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis: “Given the nature of the charges against the defendant and the apparent weight of the evidence against him, defendant faces the very real possibility of spending the rest of his life in prison.”


Fake news from a fake Judge!
   317. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5637447)
Yeah, because Paul Manafort not filing a few lobbying forms means the Trump administration is "engulfed in scandal."

Your TDS is showing.
   318. canadian shield Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5637449)
I guess this is going to have to go until Larvell B ends with:

Oh. Oh, I see. Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!
   319. Lassus Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5637455)
Nah -- the TDS is highly abnormal, which is kind of my running thesis here, if people couldn't tell. From the perspective of the TDS-afflicted, yeah, "scandal" is "engulfing" the administration -- but that's an illusion.

Are you just not answering on purpose?
   320. zenbitz Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5637456)
Okay, very briefly, the volume of space associated with the Sun has space for about 100 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 Suns. Across which the Sun is very concentrated, and the dark matter is pretty evenly spread.


OK - i'll call that volume the solar cell.

let's assume the mass of the solar system is ~1 solar mass. And that mass is 15% of the total mass of the solar cell, so the mass of CDM in the cell is 6.67 solar masses in 10^22 x the volume.
Mass of a proton is 1.7e-27kg., mass of the sun is 2e30, so call it 3e57 protons. So there is the CDN equivalent mass of 2.3e58 protons in the cell. Volume of the sun is 1.4e27 m^3 so volume of the sun is 1.4e49 m^3 , so we get roughly 1 billion protons worth of CDM mass per cubic meter of empty space.

Now, obviously this wouldn't gotten off a chalkboard in 1984 or whatever if this mass was enough to affect solar system dynamics. And I guess we still can't detect them.

Do vacuum fluctuations have mass? They would have to. Probably not enough.
   321. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5637458)
Yeah, because Paul Manafort not filing a few lobbying forms means the Trump administration is "engulfed in scandal."


Because that is totally the only thing scandalous happening. Sorry Stretchy as the resignations, plea deals, indictments, and bad news stories grow and grow and grow it is going to keep being harder to ignore it all.

Stretchy: "Forest? There is no forest. What you think that tree, that one tree right there makes a forest?"

Rest of the world: "What about all those other trees?"

Stretchy: "There is no forest! Your Tree Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is showing! No Forest! No Forest! You're the Forest!"
   322. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5637459)
There used to be a wrestler named Sergeant Slaughter. Everyone else the Sarge encountered, regardless of behavior or events or context, was inevitably labelled a "maggot."

"Listen up, you maggots!"
"Drop and give me 20, maggot!"
"Shut your hole, maggot!"
"A-ten-HUT, maggots!"

If Sgt. Slaughter were a Trump fan, he could swap "maggot" for "TDS" without any change to his one-note promo(s). And they would offer the same sagacity and inventiveness.
   323. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5637460)
Because that is totally the only thing scandalous happening.


That wasn't "scandalous" and didn't involve "the Administration."

Sorry Stretchy as the resignations, plea deals, indictments, and bad news stories grow and grow and grow


That's the illusion of TDS at work. "Bad news stories" defines the term "illusion of TDS."

   324. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5637461)
"TDS" for sagacity and inventiveness.


TDS is a clinical term to denote an affliction that besets humans; it's aimed no more at sagacity and inventiveness than are the terms "epilepsy," or "cancer."
   325. BrianBrianson Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5637466)
Because the dark matter is distributed pretty smoothly locally (we assume), or irregularly but we don't know how, measuring it's gravity on short scales at high precision would be a tricky affair. When you can build a couple hundred kilo bricks, measuring their gravity isn't impossible (Cavendish did it like two hundred years ago). But when you don't know where the dark matter is, or it's pulling pretty evenly in all directions ... ugh.

If the dark matter is locally very smooth, then inside Pluto's orbit there's less than an asteroid belt's worth of mass of dark matter. Within the Earth's orbit, maybe 1e19 g, the mass of a large comet. So, no, I don't think we could see it (though I'm not sure I'm aware of anyone having tried).

Vacuum fluctuations do have mass, and indeed can create pressure via the Casimir effect that replicates the behavior of dark energy. However, if you calculate the density of it, it's ~120 orders of magnitude less than the observed effect. Which is a serious mismatch of theory and observation, even for astronomy.
   326. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5637468)
SBB, #324:
TDS is a clinical term to denote an affliction that besets humans; it's aimed no more at sagacity and inventiveness than are the terms "epilepsy," or "cancer."


A lawyer AND a doctor! You must've had to beat the eligible ladies off with a stick.

The "clinical term" for your dreary act would be what, then? Hemorrhoid?
   327. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5637471)
That wasn't "scandalous" and didn't involve "the Administration."
Hey, look, another half dozen or so selectively non-responsive one-liners from SBB. You really *aren't* capable of paragraphs, are you?

"All you people who don't subscribe to my crackpot theories are crackpots! Chortle!", posted without elaboration and devoid of actual content or corroborating links, don't constitute substance. You don't post so much as riposte, but unimaginatively, on two, maybe three topics total. The only point in engaging at all is a dash of self-amusement at helping you look stupid(er), a smidge of public service in reminding posters unaware of your name changes that you're full of nonsense, and the ever more faint quixotic hope that maybe you'll remember that you're just playing the role of a troll, and don't actually believe your own crackpottery.
   328. BrianBrianson Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:38 PM (#5637473)
Okay, so if the local density of dark matter is then 1e-23 ~ 1e-22 g/cm^3, then the mass in dark matter enclosed with the orbit of a typical satellite around the Earth is 1e4 ~ 1e5 grams - the uncertainty in the mass of the Earth is ~1e24 g (about 0.01%) - so you can see why it's not dynamically important locally.
   329. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5637476)
“Time to buckle up,” said Stormy Daniels’ lawyer on Tuesday as the deadline set by the adult film star for Donald Trump or his lawyer to respond to her offer to return a $130,000 hush fee in exchange for the freedom to speak about an alleged past affair with Trump came and went.

Michael Avenatti declined to explain the phrase or comment further during a phone call with the Guardian to discuss possible next moves by his client. Daniels is best known by her stage name as a pornographic actor but her real name is Stephanie Clifford.

The full text of the tweet, posted moments after noon, read: “The President and Mr Cohen have purposely ignored our settlement offer, thus doubling down on their efforts to muzzle Ms Clifford and prevent her from telling the American people what happened. Time to buckle up. #basta.”

Basta is Italian for “enough”.


Link
   330. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5637478)
You really *aren't* capable of paragraphs, are you?


When necessary, sure.

(That's a paragraph, by the way.)
   331. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:54 PM (#5637480)
Okay, so if the local density of dark matter is then 1e-23 ~ 1e-22 g/cm^3, then the mass in dark matter enclosed with the orbit of a typical satellite around the Earth is 1e4 ~ 1e5 grams - the uncertainty in the mass of the Earth is ~1e24 g (about 0.01%) - so you can see why it's not dynamically important locally.


Not exactly sure when and why this dark matter conversation came up, but, it has been fascinating.

   332. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:57 PM (#5637483)
More dumbassery:
"If you don't have a wall system ... we're not gonna have a country," Trump said.
Right. The nation ceases to exist without the wall. And then they'll come for Canada.
"You have to have see-through," Trump said. "You have to know what's on the other side of the wall."

Trump then said you didn't know if cartels were just feet away from you on the other side of the wall.
Because it's unpossible to stand *on* the wall, or put a camera on it. And entire CARTELS could be RIGHT THERE.
"These are like professional mountain climbers. They're incredible climbers. They can't climb some of these walls," Trump said gesturing to some of the wall prototypes.

He continued: "Some of them they can. Those are the walls we're not using."
... A moose once bit my sister...

Hey, don't most "illegal immigrants" overstay legal entries, as opposed to being sneaky ninja rapist wetbacks? Not to bring logic into one of these discussions, or anything...
   333. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5637484)
#329:
Time to buckle up. #basta.”

Basta is Italian for “enough”.



Could be a typo for pasta, and a reference to Stormy's notional cell phone pic of Trump's mini penne.
   334. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5637486)
You really *aren't* capable of paragraphs, are you?

When necessary, sure.
Concession accepted.
   335. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5637487)
I'm telling you guys it's going to be a state of the art wall.
   336. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5637489)
Okay, so if the local density of dark matter is then 1e-23 ~ 1e-22 g/cm^3, then the mass in dark matter enclosed with the orbit of a typical satellite around the Earth is 1e4 ~ 1e5 grams - the uncertainty in the mass of the Earth is ~1e24 g (about 0.01%) - so you can see why it's not dynamically important locally.
Half of the discussion on this page is incomprehensible gibberish... and the other half is about cosmology.
   337. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5637490)
the other half is about cosmology
... but enough about Trump's eyebrows and cheesey skin tones.
   338. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:09 PM (#5637491)
Hey, don't most "illegal immigrants" overstay legal entries, as opposed to being sneaky ninja rapist wetbacks?


No need for scare quotes there.

Scare quotes are sort of the adverbs of message board postings. Don't add anything substantive but tell you a lot about the writer.
   339. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5637493)
Concession accepted.


No reason you wouldn't accept it. It was intended for acceptance.
   340. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:20 PM (#5637495)
"Illegal Immigrants" is a descriptor, not a scare quote. Building a wall will not address that subset of entrants that fly in, or drive over, and never leave. This is one of many examples of an issue that contains nuances which you have repeatedly shown yourself either unwilling, or incapable, of discussing in any depth whatsoever, opting instead to nitpick low-hanging fruitflies that only you can see or hear. But by all means, keep adding to the discussion in a way that only proves you're trolling. If nothing else, the consistency is admirable.
   341. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5637497)
"Illegal Immigrants" is a descriptor, not a scare quote.


The scare quotes around "illegal immigrants" are the scare quotes.

I also didn't mention the racial slur you used here:

Hey, don't most "illegal immigrants" overstay legal entries, as opposed to being sneaky ninja rapist wetbacks?


Fine work. Keeps alive the long-standing record of only the non-"Trumpkin" types actually using racist and homophobic slurs around here.
   342. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:27 PM (#5637500)
I also didn't mention the racial slur you used here:


You're unfamiliar with parody. Another black mark against you. Dance, Monkey, Dance!
   343. Swoboda is freedom Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5637501)
"Illegal Immigrants" is a descriptor, not a scare quote. Building a wall will not address that subset of entrants that fly in, or drive over, and never leave.

Which is about half of all illegal immigrants. Overstaying visas.
   344. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5637502)
I love it when conservatives think parody of their own racism is a slur.
   345. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:30 PM (#5637503)
I love it when conservatives think parody of their own racism is a slur.


The "parody" exception.

OK, then.

LOL.

I'm not sure the various streams of delusion that issue from PretendVille are actually "parody," but whatever.
   346. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5637505)

I'm not sure the various streams of delusion that issue from PretendVille are actually "parody," but whatever.


Concession accepted, Monkey. Now DANCE!!
   347. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5637506)
The scare quotes around "illegal immigrants" are the scare quotes.
Um, no. They actually ARE illegal immigrants. Actual "scare quotes" are used to mock, like "TDS sufferers". Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
I also didn't mention the racial slur you used here:

Hey, don't most "illegal immigrants" overstay legal entries, as opposed to being sneaky ninja rapist wetbacks?
"Sneaky" isn't racial in any way; maybe you're hiding something and overcompensating.
   348. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5637507)
Concession accepted, Monkey. Now DANCE!!


Why? So you can call me a jigaboo?

I think not.
   349. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:35 PM (#5637508)
I think not.


Obviously. But when you do, you remind us why it's best that you don't.
   350. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:35 PM (#5637509)
Um, no. They actually ARE illegal immigrants.


Oh, my goodness. You're getting into Mouse territory here, meaning it's time once again to cite the Rule of Holes.

"Sneaky" isn't racial in any way; maybe you're hiding something and overcompensating.


Oh, my goodness, Part Deux.
   351. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5637510)
Oh, now it makes sense -- Farrakhan was just parodying "conservatives."

   352. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5637511)
Oh, my goodness, Part Deux.
You know you don't "have" to "play" "dumb", right? No, I guess you don't, not if you want to stay in character. Kudos!
   353. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:41 PM (#5637512)
You know you don't "have" to "play" "dumb", right? No, I guess you don't, not if you want to stay in character. Kudos!


Uh-huh. Sure.
   354. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5637513)



Why? So you can call me a jigaboo?
Also not parody, you ####### moron?

Just dance, Monkey.
   355. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:45 PM (#5637514)
Also not parody, you ####### moron?


PepTech's Latino? And an illegal immigrant?

So you're saying he's talking his book?
   356. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5637515)
PepTech's Latino?


What's this shuck and jive mean?

edit...even after your edit I still don't know what you're trying to say. Keep dancing, Monkey!
   357. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5637520)
What's this shuck and jive mean?


The guy in the Hair song is black, so the parody (*) is actually parody and works. PepTech is not Hispanic so the "parody" does not work. (It fails for other reasons, too, of course -- the primary one being it's not ... you know ... funny.)

(*) I'll accept your description of it as parody, even though it's a little more complex than that.
   358. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:52 PM (#5637521)

Well, for a fake lawyer he makes a terrible literary critic.
   359. Greg K Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5637522)
Regarding Scott:

I can see the argument that hunter/gather societies were healthier, more egalitarian, and perhaps more stable in the medium-term than pre-historic agricultural societies. This last one is an interesting idea, and I'd be curious to read more about it, but I'll say at first blush it doesn't seem entirely counter-intuitive.

I also appreciate BDC's point about how this might change the way we think about the past. Along the lines of, gross inequalities and occasional catastrophic collapses was the price our ancestors paid to create civilization. Since it wasn't me that paid that price, I say it was well worth it!

I suppose you could make an argument against historical inevitability that says agricultural societies weren't the only path to civilization, and maybe hunter/gatherers develop something just as good in some alternate universe. But that's getting pretty far out there.
   360. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:59 PM (#5637525)
PepTech is not Hispanic so the "parody" does not work.

It worked.

(It fails for other reasons, too, of course -- the primary one being it's not ... you know ... funny.)


Racists never like to be made fun of, of course they'll try to deny the humor in the parody.

NOW DANCE, MONKEY! MORE!!!
   361. Greg K Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:59 PM (#5637526)
So, you have to be of the group the parody persona is attacking in order for it to be parody?

Was Charlie Chaplin's parody of Hitler contingent on whether he was Jewish or not?

That doesn't seem quite right to me.
   362. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:06 PM (#5637528)
Well, for a fake lawyer he makes a terrible literary critic.
He doesn't know that "funny" is not an essential component of parody, either. Parody of Trump tends to the sad and/or deplorable, not the funny.

Another time, and with someone who could construct logical arguments (or focus long enough to string together complete thoughts) it would be amusing to explore why he makes the assumption that I'm not Hispanic, but there's only so much one can bother with on any given day.
   363. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:10 PM (#5637529)
So, you have to be of the group the parody persona is attacking in order for it to be parody?


And then out of the other side of his mouth he'll complain when black people use the "n" word.

He's a troll. And a Dancing Monkey.
   364. Jason Dean Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:13 PM (#5637530)
Along the lines of, gross inequalities and occasional catastrophic collapses was the price our ancestors paid to create civilization


Acquired against the grain

Civilization/=State >>> Wheat
   365. PreservedFish Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5637531)
I can see the argument that hunter/gather societies were healthier, more egalitarian, and perhaps more stable in the medium-term than pre-historic agricultural societies.


"Healthier" - We know that they had stronger bones and stronger teeth. I believe the Paleo argument on that. But they probably had more calories available in the winter, huh?
That co-habitating with livestock introduced most of our infectious diseases seems almost beside the point ... nobody could have understood that at the time, and once they were introduced, they would have ravaged the hunter-gatherers just as much as the farmers. Also, where are the pastoralists and nomads in this timeline?

"More egalitarian"

Someone posted a link above that mostly criticized Scott on this point, that that the concept "more egalitarian" wouldn't have even made sense without the turn towards agriculture, that there's a failure in analyzing distant and profoundly alien societies using, well, Enlightenment tools.

Jared Diamond tends to dominate my thinking on such things because I've read all of his books, although I'm aware that professionals tend to bristle at the generalizations he makes. The latest one, about modern stone age societies, was certainly thought provoking, and his description of these societies makes me think they ought not to be described as "egalitarian." The term just doesn't apply well. Communal property is one thing that we can smile about from this vantage point, but at the same time none of us can properly imagine the dense and complex web of relationships and obligations that rule every second of pre-literate tribal life. I don't think that this is what most anarchists are hoping for.

Grain may have made many men slaves. But it also may have created the circumstances where, for the first time in human history, two strangers didn't try to murder each other on sight.

"More stable" -

This is the part that surprised me, and I have nothing to add but baseless speculation.

I suppose you could make an argument against historical inevitability that says agricultural societies weren't the only path to civilization, and maybe hunter/gatherers develop something just as good in some alternate universe. But that's getting pretty far out there.


It sounds like Scott is not making this argument. I think he believes that development of agriculture and thereafter of the state was inevitable.

   366. Morty Causa Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5637532)
Let's give the "fake lawyer" gag a rest, how about it? It's a pretty cheesy rhetorical tactic that only reflects poorly on he who is doing the name-calling.
   367. Morty Causa Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:19 PM (#5637533)
So, you have to be of the group the parody persona is attacking in order for it to be parody?

Was Charlie Chaplin's parody of Hitler contingent on whether he was Jewish or not?

That doesn't seem quite right to me.


When Chaplin asked Jack Oakie to play the Mussolini caricature, Oakie hesitated. "I'm not Italian," he told Chaplin. Chaplin replied, "What's funny about an Italian playing Mussolini?"
   368. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:23 PM (#5637534)
David N replying, #336:
Okay, so if the local density of dark matter is then 1e-23 ~ 1e-22 g/cm^3, then the mass in dark matter enclosed with the orbit of a typical satellite around the Earth is 1e4 ~ 1e5 grams - the uncertainty in the mass of the Earth is ~1e24 g (about 0.01%) - so you can see why it's not dynamically important locally.

Half of the discussion on this page is incomprehensible gibberish... and the other half is about cosmology.



As the last hour subsequently demonstrated, you passed up a golden opportunity to brand somebody with the term "local density."
   369. Lassus Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:26 PM (#5637535)
Who said Wrestlemania President wasn't able to pivot?
WASHINGTON — President Trump on Monday abandoned his promise to work for gun control measures opposed by the National Rifle Association, bowing to the gun group and embracing its agenda of armed teachers and incremental improvements to the background check system.

After the Florida high school massacre last month, Mr. Trump explicitly called on live television for raising the age limit to purchase rifles and backed 2013 legislation for near-universal background checks. He later told lawmakers that while the N.R.A. has “great power over you people, they have less power over me.”

But on Monday, it was the president who seemed to knuckle under, again dramatizing the sway that the N.R.A. still maintains in Republican circles.



   370. Lassus Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:26 PM (#5637536)
Only slightly related, #341 sets a new bar for stupid.
   371. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:27 PM (#5637537)
Hey, I will fully admit to being locally dense - does that count for anything?
   372. BrianBrianson Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:31 PM (#5637538)
That co-habitating with livestock introduced most of our infectious diseases seems almost beside the point ... nobody could have understood that at the time, and once they were introduced, they would have ravaged the hunter-gatherers just as much as the farmers.


No - large groups of people living in close quarters with animals and just dumping their piss and #### around is an excellent way to spread disease. Small numbers of people living with low population density and moving away from their ####/piss/dead don't spread disease very easily. Cities were usually population sinks until ~200 years ago.
   373. Shredder Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:35 PM (#5637539)
What exactly is a "state of the art wall"? What is the pinnacle of wall technology? "These are the most advance versions of something designed to keep other things on one side or the other". I'm not sure what technology went into the walls that make up my home, but they seem to be doing the job pretty well.
   374. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 13, 2018 at 06:47 PM (#5637540)
Only slightly related, #341 sets a new bar for stupid.


Nah. The gold standard in my book, best and still the champion, is TGF and his North Korea silliness. The whole thing from the "It is as much of a democracy as the US, because it has Democratic in the name" all the way to "It is not a Monarchy, for reasons. Look Communism!"

The whole thing was top shelf idiocy, double and tripled down on. It may never be topped.
   375. BrianBrianson Posted: March 13, 2018 at 07:02 PM (#5637542)
Yeah, 341 isn't even nutty for SBB - a man who repeatedly insists that the rest of us thinking white people can speak Spanish as their first language totally discredits us in every respect.
   376. -- Posted: March 13, 2018 at 07:14 PM (#5637544)
So, you have to be of the group the parody persona is attacking in order for it to be parody?


To use racial slurs as parody, pretty much yeah. When Whitey does it, it inevitably -- as in the case at hand -- has the whiff of "because of my wokeness, I've earned the right." At that point, the parody is more of themselves than anyone else. Andy is a "master" of this genre.
   377. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 07:39 PM (#5637549)
Trump waved bye-bye to two Cabinet members in Year One. In their first year, the other six Presidents from Carter through Obama combined for zero.

Now there are news reports that Trump also wants to oust the Secretary of Veterans Affairs next, and replace him with Rick Perry. If that comes to pass, theirs would be the sixth and seventh Cabinet seats to become vacant, in 14 months.

CIA Director shifting to State, Energy Secretary potentially jumping to Veterans Affairs. Not only is this totally normal, but Trump is masterfully rearranging deck chairs on the most beautiful, the most titanic ocean liner you've ever seen.
   378. Jack Keefe Posted: March 13, 2018 at 07:43 PM (#5637550)
So, you have to be of the group the parody persona is attacking in order for it to be parody?

To use racial slurs as parody, pretty much yeah


This is why when Ozzie Guillen said You must not say Bog Trotter Keefe you must say Potato Preferring American, I would all ways turn aroun and say Gwan out of that are yer out of yer tiny mind I am as Irish as the Pigs of Connaught and it's far from County Mayo ya were reared yuh slimy Venezua Hoolihan.
   379. Howie Menckel Posted: March 13, 2018 at 07:47 PM (#5637552)
NY Post front page headline:

WORST REX HE EVER HAD

if this was a local crowd, I would leave it at that - but too obscure for most. this is a sequel to an infamous BEST SEX I EVER HAD front that the Post (without hard evidence) claimed was uttered by Marla Maples to friends about her new husband decades ago.
   380. Jay Z Posted: March 13, 2018 at 08:07 PM (#5637555)
No - large groups of people living in close quarters with animals and just dumping their piss and #### around is an excellent way to spread disease. Small numbers of people living with low population density and moving away from their ####/piss/dead don't spread disease very easily. Cities were usually population sinks until ~200 years ago.


"Small numbers." Perhaps that's the key. If that lifestyle couldn't comfortably sustain as many as the urban/agrian ones, well then you are being outbred.
   381. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: March 13, 2018 at 08:30 PM (#5637561)
Is that NY Post headline real because that's great if true.
   382. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 08:35 PM (#5637564)
CLUELESS HEAD IN HAPLESS GOVERNMENT
   383. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: March 13, 2018 at 08:43 PM (#5637566)
WORST REX HE EVER HAD

Best tweet I saw on this was: "EX-EXXON TEXAN EXEC REX NEXT EX-SEC"
   384. Tom T Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5637568)
Half of the discussion on this page is incomprehensible gibberish... and the other half is about cosmology.


Yeah, let's get back to the cosmology.

My familiarity with this topic is darn near zilch, as my besties in physics focus on topics such as magnetohydrodynamic modeling of charged particles, plasma from electric discharges, and gravitational waves. They tend not to speak (at least, not to ignoramuses like me) about dark matter.

I is learnin' somethin'!
   385. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5637569)
Still early, but Lamb with a slight edge according to the NYTs widget -- which was quite accurate in the Alabama Senate race.

   386. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:31 PM (#5637570)
CLUELESS HEAD IN HAPLESS GOVERNMENT

I await your take on Stormy Daniels' next Head of State BJ.
   387. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:34 PM (#5637571)
Still early, but Lamb with a slight edge according to the NYTs widget -- which was quite accurate in the Alabama Senate race.

We've probably all been following that link for the last hour or so, but don't put the kibosh on it.
   388. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5637572)
Hate to ruin everyone's needle watching - but Nate Cohn tweeted that unfortunately, Westmoreland county isn't releasing its precinct-by-precinct results tonight... hence, the needle is bunk tonight because it's not getting any individual precinct data for this particular county.
   389. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5637573)
We've probably all been following that link for the last hour or so, but don't put the kibosh on it.


apparently one of the larger counties isn't going to live report by precinct so it won't be as accurate this time.

if there's one thing more incompetent than Trump it's most local BOEs. we used to ask them for CSV files and they'd send us PDFs...and these are supposed to be "data people"!
   390. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:45 PM (#5637575)
#386:
CLUELESS HEAD IN HAPLESS GOVERNMENT

I await your take on Stormy Daniels' next Head of State BJ.



It'll be along the lines of DEWEY EATS TRUMAN.
   391. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5637578)
If 88% is in and I assume most of the remainder is Westmoreland County, which isn't in at all and is a "heavily Republican part of the district" as the NYT puts it ... seems like things lean Team Red at this point ...

[edit] Already up to 94% and it's down to a lead of less than 1k votes for Lamb.
   392. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5637579)
If 88% is in and I assume most of the remainder is Westmoreland County, which isn't in at all and is a "heavily Republican part of the district" as the NYT puts it ... seems like things lean Team Red at this point ...

Well, now there are more votes outstanding in Allegheny than in Westmoreland, but with less than 1,000 votes separating them at this point, either way I bet it'll go to a recount.
   393. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5637580)
Well, now there are more votes outstanding in Allegheny than in Westmoreland, but with less than 1,000 votes separating them at this point, either way I bet it'll go to a recount.


it will, it's auto at .5% in PA. I think Lamb will squeek it out if I'm reading the insiders right on Twitter, seems like he won't lose much in the last 6% to report.
   394. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5637581)
Nah, looks like Lamb wins it by a point or so...

Precincts are not population, but Allegheny is 95% reporting, Westmoreland is 97% reporting and Washington is 90% reporting (Greene is 100% in). Lamb up by about ~1000 votes. Just eyeballing the precincts left to be reported in the two counties where we're getting the data by precinct and guessing at how many votes are left in Westmoreland where we don't have precincts, it looks like like by 1+ points.
   395. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5637584)
Happy to be wrong if that's the outcome.
   396. BrianBrianson Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5637585)
It's not that Westmoreland isn't reporting, it's just that they're not specifying which precinct votes are coming from.
   397. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5637586)
Must be over the Trumpkins on Twitter are blaming the 3rd party libertarian as the difference.
   398. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:09 PM (#5637587)
The Democratic candidate leads by 1,238 votes. The Libertarian Party candidate has 1,274 votes.
   399. Srul Itza Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5637588)
Has anyone noticed that the votes for the Libertarian candidate are, at this time, greater than the difference between Lamb and Saccone?


EDIT: Too slow on the draw again
   400. McCoy Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5637591)
It's over.
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