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Monday, March 12, 2018

OTP 12 March 2018: Trevor Bauer thinks Major League Baseball trying to silence him on Twitter

Last February, Bauer made waves on Twitter when he argued over politics with his followers. He tweeted that almost all of the Indians supported Donald Trump and told another user they were “welcome to quit life.”

Bauer has been much calmer as of late and that could be because MLB stepped in. The 27-year-old hasn’t tweeted that much this offseason and when he does it’s been about things like the Olympics and his training.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 12, 2018 at 08:17 AM | 1718 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cleveland indians, off topic, politics, twitter

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   501. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:14 AM (#5637729)
Let's see if we can flip SBB off the page.
   502. BrianBrianson Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5637730)

But I do like that you concede you are just as relevant as the Monarchists of the world. In that you are 100% correct. Seriously.


Hey, 3 members of the G7 are monarchies, for instance. Worldwide, monarchists remain relevant.
   503. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:18 AM (#5637732)
And you NEVER present your arguments as philosophical ones, but rather as political ones.


LOL -- you just complained that I don't ever name actual politicians and now you say my arguments are "political," not philosophical. You're obviously all over the map on this one. That's what flailing does.

Dude, seriously (I'm serious, you can tell because I used the word "seriously", so take note), what you see as "Actual Liberalism" doesn't exists.


Not surprising that a modern liberal would have this perspective, particularly a not particularly well-informed one.

Maybe it did at one point, though I doubt at all as you imagine it to be, but it certainly is not viable today.


Some parts of it overlap with modern liberalism. Those parts aren't "viable"?

LOL.

But no one takes it ... here is that word again ... seriously.


Plenty of people do, and have the capacity to. They write books and articles and op-eds -- as well as intelligent outlines on public message boards. You don't.

   504. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5637735)
PPP did some PA-18 exits --

-Health care was a top issue to voters. Health care was ranked as a top issue for 52% of voters (15% saying it was the
most important issue and another 37% saying it was very important). Only 19% said it was not that important or not
important at all.
- Conor Lamb won big especially among voters for whom health care was a top priority. Among voters who said
health care was the most important issue for them, Lamb beat Rick Saccone 64-36 and among the broader group
of voters who said it was either the most important or a very important issue Lamb beat Saccone 62-38.

* * *

-Voters in this heavily Republican district disapproved of the Republican efforts to repeal the Affordable Care Act
by 14 points (53% to 39%).
- 48% of voters believed Republicans are now trying to undermine and sabotage it since they failed to repeal it.
Among independent voters, the disparity is even wider with only 33% supporting the GOP’s health care repeal
efforts to 63% opposing them.
-In this deeply red district, 44% of voters support the Affordable Care Act while 42% oppose it.
- Only 38% of voters think the best path forward on health care is to repeal the Affordable Care Act, to 59% who
think it should be kept in place with fixes made to it as necessary.


Full results and the exit questions at the link.
   505. Morty Causa Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5637736)
Modern Liberals are like Modern Conservatives: they have different interests they cater to, that's all. Both want to use the political system to do social engineering according to their philosophical recipe. Neither and none are for a substrate neutral political system. They both think gaming the system for higher ideals is justifiable.

I already said when liberalism became Modern Liberalism (if you like). About that time the New Left came to predominate is when. When it reneged on its own professed ideals. In Civil Rights, the liberal civil rights movement went from equality before the law to result--oriented prescriptions, attained however possible and no back-talk, you running dog or the establishment. We see this in AA as to race and sex and now gender. We especially see it in the intolerance of Antifa and MeToo, in the idea that accusations don't have to be tested.

We also see it in the illegal immigrant issue. Doesn't matter what the law says. Immigration is good, whatever the majority of stupid un-woke citizens think, and it doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal, as long as we serve the downtrodden, especially if they're black, brown, or some other brand of non-white.

Liberalism isn't about making the US more democratic. It's only about undemocratically serving an interest, just like the right/conservatives.
   506. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5637737)
To put it simply:

Actual liberals see "George Zimmerman" and evaluate him as "George Zimmerman." George Zimmerman did A, B, and C, therefore D, E, and F.

Modern liberals see "George Zimmerman, White Hispanic" and evaluate him as "George Zimmerman, White Hispanic." George Zimmerman, White Hispanic did A, B, and C to Trayvon Martin, African-American, therefore D, E, and F. The D, E, and F are dependent on GZ being White Hispanic and Trayvon being A-A. Make GZ A-A and TM WH, and D, E, and F change. That's modern liberalism.

Going back to the founding years, "Tawana Told the Truth" (*) is modern liberalism.

Etc, etc.

There's a reason the NYT had never really used the term "White Hispanic" as a descriptor and that reason is that the paper's philosophy has morphed from actual liberalism to modern liberalism.

(*) As seen, among other places, on the wall in Do the Right Thing.

   507. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5637739)
I find it endlessly amusing that one of the OTP's foremost Trumpkins always tries to cloak himself faux-intellectualism, but that's really par for the Trumpkin course...
   508. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5637741)
How famous would Steve Hawking have been if he didn't have his illness? Honest question. Was he a legit titan of science? Not trying to be a skeptical jerk, just curious.
   509. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:31 AM (#5637743)
And so, it was a 22% swing to the Democrats in PA-18.

That raises the average blue swing in all 2017-18 special elections to 17%.

PA-18 is a district that had averaged 63.2% to 36.8% Republican wins in the five cycles before the two most recent 100%-0% races.

Nationwide, Republicans currently hold 118 House seats in districts that are less red than the Pennsylvania 18th is. Er, was.

The Democratic candidate Conor Lamb was notably outspent, out-attack ad-ed, and out-rally-ed.

Enthusiasm gap? Lamb received 80% of Hillary Clinton's PA-18 vote total, while Rick Saccone got 53% of Trump's.

In the last 100 approval polls listed on RCP, Trump is above a 50% disapproval in 97 of them. The exceptions: 50%, 48% and 49%, and he was underwater in those three polls, also.

In the 2014 midterm, 36 GOP House members got to run for reelection unopposed (including Trimester Tim Murphy in PA-18). This cycle, the number of unopposed Republicans was already down to 12 as of last month.

And for Zonk: so far, 28 Republican House incumbents have outright retired to take up whittling, without pursuing alternate electoral ambitions. That's more than in any cycle since 1980, and it's more than double the GOP's pure retirement average during that time.

The last state filing deadlines are in July, and as Zonk noted in #483, there may be a candidate or three that get picked past their states' deadlines.

Two more special elections remain on the upcoming calendar: AZ-8 next month, and OH-12 in August. The departed Trent Franks won in Arizona last time by 68% to 31% (beating a Green Party candidate), and 75% to 24% before that (defeating the Americans Elect party), but this is the seat Democrat Gabby Giffords had to give up in 2012 after a salute to constitutional originalism. The Ohio 12th seat has been Republican for 76 of 78 years since 1940, and has seen three-count-em-three competitive races during that time (including the lone Democratic win).

There's been a lot of damage control spin, both pre- and post-election, about how Conor Lamb was only doing as well as he was because he ran a conservative campaign. Lamb supports Obamacare, supports abortion rights, supports unions, opposes Trump's tax cut, and opposes cuts to Medicare and Social Security. But what really matters is that he's for gun rights and the steel tariff, and against Pelosi. More pseudo-Democratic candidates like this? Yes, please.
   510. DavidFoss Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:31 AM (#5637745)
There are several recent books on identity liberalism. Try Mark Lilla's.

That book got fully debated last year (and the year before when a shorter version was just an op-ed). It's all semantic gobbledygook. We're supposed to 'emphasize commonalities as citizens in their politics, rather than differences of identity'. Sounds like the same thing to a lot of people. What the heck is the difference between groups of people that share commonalities as citizens and groups of people that share identities? It's just a bit of concern trolling after the 2016 election loss meant to fill left-leaning voters' heads filled with self-doubt. Yeah, tweaking views to appeal better represent the constituents, sure, but abandon the groups that constitute their base simply because? Why?

And what are you doing? You're tagging them with a label, giving them an 'identity' and linking it to their politics. Oh, but its OK when *you* do it! :-)
   511. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:34 AM (#5637746)
Actual liberals see "George Zimmerman" and evaluate him as "George Zimmerman." George Zimmerman did A, B, and C, therefore D, E, and F.

Modern liberals see "George Zimmerman, White Hispanic" and evaluate him as "George Zimmerman, White Hispanic." George Zimmerman, White Hispanic did A, B, and C to Trayvon Martin, African-American, therefore D, E, and F. The D, E, and F are dependent on GZ being White Hispanic and Trayvon being A-A. Make GZ A-A and TM WH, and D, E, and F change. That's modern liberalism.


Actual people see a self-appointed vigilante stalking a teenager who was breaking no laws but became concerned that he was being stalked and attempted to turn the tables on his stalker, before being murdered for his trouble... They don't think self-appointed vigilantes should stalk kids and then be able to shoot and kill them without penalty.

They further think that it's worthwhile - at a societal level - to understand why the self-appointed vigilante was stalking the kid who was breaking no laws and then killed him without penalty.
   512. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5637751)
How famous would Steve Hawking have been if he didn't have his illness? Honest question. Was he a legit titan of science? Not trying to be a skeptical jerk, just curious.


I think it was less his disability than it was A Brief History of Time - I mean, it was published 30 years, spent 5 years on the best seller list, sold 10 million copies, and while I know parts of it later got picked apart a bit; made what were then very opaque concepts accessible to the layman.

   513. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5637753)
you just complained that I don't ever name actual politicians


No. Go back and read what I wrote. I noted that you are unable to name such politicians, because there are none. Your political philosophy is not relevant to anyone but you. Excuse me, you and Mark Lilla; my apologies - I hope you are eternally happy together.

It is not at all a complaint. I think it fabulous you admit you and your political philosophy are not relevant. It is a rare display of clarity on your part, and as such I encourage it and more like it.
   514. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5637757)
Modern Liberals are like Modern Conservatives: they have different interests they cater to, that's all. Both want to use the political system to do social engineering according to their philosophical recipe. Neither and none are for a substrate neutral political system. They both think gaming the system for higher ideals is justifiable.


So, it is your claim that before the "emergence" of those dastardly "Modern" politicians, politicians didn't behave that way? Were they true and pure and like George Washington always told the truth? Gosh mister, that sure does sound great. I golly darn wish I was alive back then, I sure do!
   515. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5637758)
Ah, if only modern liberal hero Trayvon Martin had been carrying a gay wedding cake instead of a bag of Skittles, SBB's cum shot would be visible from the space station.
   516. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5637759)
They further think that it's worthwhile - at a societal level - to understand why the self-appointed vigilante was stalking the kid who was breaking no laws and then killed him without penalty.
Keep in mind that our vigilant SBB is on record as saying "sneaky" is a racist term. Sane exercise never very reader dispute much.
   517. DavidFoss Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5637760)
How famous would Steve Hawking have been if he didn't have his illness? Honest question. Was he a legit titan of science? Not trying to be a skeptical jerk, just curious.

Well, he didn't win a Nobel Prize. What I've heard is that you can't win a Nobel Prize in theoretical physics until your theories are verified by experiment. Hawkings theories not in an area where experimental verification is practicle (yet?). Correct me if I'm wrong on the Nobel-requires-verification part.

But he wrote a best-selling popular book -- "A Brief History of Time". So, he's at the very least famous in the same way that Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson are. I think you need a PhD in Physics to compare him to his contemporaries in the research field. Does he have a bunch of seminal papers which are widely cited? I don't know. Some popular personalities and authors like Feynmann did have top-notch research, too.
   518. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5637761)
Ah, if only modern liberal hero Trayvon Martin had been carrying a gay wedding cake instead of a bag of Skittles, SBB's cum shot would be visible from the space station.


Not with his waning testosterone levels.
   519. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5637762)
There's been a lot of damage control spin, both pre- and post-election, about how Conor Lamb was only doing as well as he was because he ran a conservative campaign. Lamb supports Obamacare, supports abortion rights, supports unions, opposes Trump's tax cut, and opposes cuts to Medicare and Social Security. But what really matters is that he's for gun rights and the steel tariff, and against Pelosi. More pseudo-Democratic candidates like this? Yes, please.


Lordy, lordy... the spin.

It's hard to believe that the GOP continues to try to spin this as "Rick Saccone: Terrible Candidate". He won three races to represent the biggest chunk of this district in the state legislature. He's a former USAF officer. He's got a masters and a PhD. He had zero scandals. He's clearly and completely a 'Christian conservative' - but with none of the 'forceable rape' or 'lock up the gays' stuff. He began the campaign by hugging Trump tight and hugged him only tighter. Outside groups spent 10.7 million in support of him - plus another 1.2 million from his own campaign. The President did a rally for him the weekend before the election. The VP made two stop.

If Trumpublicans think this constitutes a "terrible candidate", then I have to wonder exactly who they think makes a GOOD candidate.
   520. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5637763)
Ah, if only modern liberal hero Trayvon Martin had been carrying a gay wedding cake instead of a bag of Skittles, SBB's cum shot would be visible from the space station.


Risking Trump's space marines bombarding earth from their Trump tower space stations?

Sounds like we dodged a bullet.... unlike Martin.
   521. Tom T Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5637767)
Some popular personalities and authors like Feynmann did have top-notch research, too.


Actually, this reminds me that I do know a fellow at Oxford, Ian Shipsey, on whom BrianBrianson can perhaps comment with regard to how what he does ties to dark matter detection?

I always wanted to talk astrophysics with Ian, but he only ever wanted to talk about cochlear implants (one of my old research stomping grounds). Ian seems like someone who could have become quite a popular personality in the domain had it not been for his hearing issues....
   522. BrianBrianson Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5637772)
Yes, Hawkings is largely famous because he was on Star Trek and Futurama and wrote some books and such, but he was a pretty accomplished scientist. Donald Lyndon Bell died last week, was also at Cambridge, and was of maybe comparable scientific accomplishment - he got a full obit in Nature, but I don't think I saw it in Google News or anything.

Hawking had 9 papers with over 1000 citations (per ADS), and an H-index in the 70s, so that's pretty good, aye. More accomplished as a scientist than Tyson or Sagan, but less than Feynman, as far as famous scientists. Maybe like Goodall? Outside of (astro)physics, it's hard for me to judge.
   523. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5637773)
It's hard to believe that the GOP continues to try to spin this as "Rick Saccone: Terrible Candidate". He won three races to represent the biggest chunk of this district in the state legislature. He's a former USAF officer. He's got a masters and a PhD. He had zero scandals. He's clearly and completely a 'Christian conservative' - but with none of the 'forceable rape' or 'lock up the gays' stuff. He began the campaign by hugging Trump tight and hugged him only tighter. Outside groups spent 10.7 million in support of him - plus another 1.2 million from his own campaign. The President did a rally for him the weekend before the election. The VP made two stop.

If Trumpublicans think this constitutes a "terrible candidate", then I have to wonder exactly who they think makes a GOOD candidate.


Let's hold that question for about 8 more months and another 8000 Trumpian tweets.
   524. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5637774)
Quite a good look the day before a national school walk-out...

SEASIDE, Calif. (AP) — Police say a teacher in California accidentally fired his gun in a classroom, injuring three students.

It happened Tuesday at Seaside High School as Dennis Alexander was teaching a gun safety lesson for his administration of justice class.

Police say Alexander, who also serves as a reserve police officer, was pointing the gun at the ceiling to make sure it was not loaded when the weapon discharged.

Three students were injured by debris, including a 17-year-old whose father told KSBW-TV his son sustained moderate injuries when bullet fragments lodged in his neck
   525. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5637777)
#520:
Lordy, lordy... the spin.
It's hard to believe that the GOP continues to try to spin this as "Rick Saccone: Terrible Candidate".



Pennsylvania's GOP chairman said the race was tough because PA-18 is a "Democrat district."

NRCC Chairman Steve Stivers told House members today that the concluded race is too close to call. And that it's hard to message when you're outspent 5-1.

Paul Ryan on the Democrats' unique advantage in PA-18: "This is something you're not going to see repeated because they didn’t have a primary."

Fox News' Laura Ingraham tweeted: "Watching @ConorLambPA this morning. He’s basically a younger @TomCottonAR. Come on, Conor, your natural home is the GOP."

Jason Miller on CNN said that Saccone only did as well as he did because of the boost he got from "the Trump bump." And that the reason he lost was because he came across as too establishment, and waited too long to run as a "Trump Republican." (Saccone literally boasted from Day One of his campaign, "I was Trump before Trump was Trump.")

Rep. Chris Collins (R-NY): "This was a one-off. We’ve won five; they’ve won one. I’m feeling pretty good."

And Donald Trump made two appearances with Saccone, not one. But he hasn't tweeted yet today to blame the candidate and absolve himself. They must have hidden Trump's cell phone where he can't find it. Probably under a daily briefing.
   526. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5637779)
Music to my ears --

One GOP leader called the outcome a ‘wake up call,’ but rank-and-file lawmakers were largely in denial.

Walking into the meeting, New York. Rep. Chris Collins, a close ally of President Donald Trump, called the race a “one-off.”

“We’ve won five [special elections]; they’ve won one. I’m feeling pretty good,” he added.
   527. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5637783)
And Donald Trump made two appearances with Saccone, not one. But he hasn't tweeted yet today to blame the candidate and absolve himself. They must have hidden Trump's cell phone where he can't find it. Probably under a daily briefing.

Or he hasn't yet figured out whether to blame Saccone, VOTER FRAUD, Crooked Hillary or THE LYING MEDIA.

Decisions, decisions!
   528. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5637785)

It's hard to believe that the GOP continues to try to spin this as "Rick Saccone: Terrible Candidate". He won three races to represent the biggest chunk of this district in the state legislature. He's a former USAF officer. He's got a masters and a PhD. He had zero scandals. He's clearly and completely a 'Christian conservative' - but with none of the 'forceable rape' or 'lock up the gays' stuff. He began the campaign by hugging Trump tight and hugged him only tighter. Outside groups spent 10.7 million in support of him - plus another 1.2 million from his own campaign. The President did a rally for him the weekend before the election. The VP made two stop.
Well, you've recited his bio, but the fact that someone has a good c.v. doesn't mean that he's a good candidate. He could just be unlikeable and uncharismatic. *cough*Hillary*cough*. On the other hand, as Nate (I think) said yesterday morning before the election results came in, so much of this "bad candidate" stuff is ex post facto bullshit, based not on anything about the candidate but just about the results. Sometimes it's really true -- there's not much question about why Roy Moore lost. But much of the time, like team chemistry in baseball, it's a just so story.
   529. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5637786)
[Trump] hasn't tweeted yet today to blame the candidate and absolve himself. They must have hidden Trump's cell phone where he can't find it. Probably under a daily briefing.

Or he hasn't yet figured out whether to blame Saccone, VOTER FRAUD, Crooked Hillary or THE LYING MEDIA.



Or maybe we're being unfair and Trump was just busy, looking at résumés.

Yesterday, Trump fired the Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs for issuing an embarrassing statement about Rex Tillerson's tweet-firing.

Today, Trump filled the position. With a former "Fox & Friends" host.
   530. BDC Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5637787)
Maybe like Goodall? Outside of (astro)physics, it's hard for me to judge

Certainly Hawking is comparable to Goodall as a writer and a celebrity. Goodall as a scientist is harder to compare to people in mathematical or theoretical fields, or even to lab biologists. She worked (still works, nominally) with a single population of chimpanzees in unique circumstances. She openly and deliberately intervened (by feeding them bananas, can you get more clichéd? :) to accustom the chimpanzees to her presence. Then she wrote a great book about them (In the Shadow of Man). I'd compare her in turn to Oliver Sacks - I don't know whether he was a great doctor or a great medical researcher, but he also worked with a unique population and wrote a great book (Awakenings) about them. By contrast, Hawking's field involves universal principles (though I can't judge the greatness of his achievement there). Depends perhaps on how much you value universal principles versus unique observations.
   531. BDC Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5637788)
Today, Trump filled the position. With a former "Fox & Friends" host

Now you're just making stuff up, like the guy in the Dugout this morning who claimed that the Phillies had hired Chris Truby as a roving minor-league instructor.
   532. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5637789)
Dennis Alexander was teaching a gun safety lesson for his administration of justice class.


So many questions.
   533. BrianBrianson Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5637790)
Actually, this reminds me that I do know a fellow at Oxford, Ian Shipsey, on whom BrianBrianson can perhaps comment with regard to how what he does ties to dark matter detection?


Err, sorry, can't say I know the fellow. I don't work on dark matter, so what I know is just what I gather from colloquia, more or less. And there's some cross-over when you do dynamics, so I get a bit of that. And, of course, whoever I've randomly shared institutions or especially offices with. So I know some stuff about dark matter & dynamics, but very little about direct detection.
   534. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5637792)

but rank-and-file lawmakers were largely in denial.
Nothing in the article supports that subhead. Collins is the only rank-and-file lawmaker quoted in that fashion. Ryan is quoted as being Pollyannish too, but that's probably spin, not denial. (I mean, do you think the head of the GOP is going to say to a reporter, "Yeah, this sucks. Everyone hates us and we're going to lose the majority"?)
   535. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5637795)
Today, Trump filled the position. With a former "Fox & Friends" host

Now you're just making stuff up, like the guy in the Dugout this morning who claimed that the Phillies had hired Chris Truby as a roving minor-league instructor.

Making a deal with the devil!
   536. BrianBrianson Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5637796)
I didn't really mean to compare Goodall to Hawking in that kind of detail, just as their relative standing as scientists in their field. But, maybe that was an oversell, and her scientific record is closer to Sagan? Sagan did some good work on planetary atmospheres in the Solar system, but you wouldn't know his name if he hadn't done outreach (I might, but might require a bit of memory jogging).
   537. Omineca Greg Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5637797)
Yesterday, I was listening to an album that I probably hadn't heard in 10 years: Todd Rundgren's Nearly Human, released in 1989. It's pretty good for what it is, unfortunately 1989 ranks up there with 1962 as a year when pop music was not at its best.

Anyway, this was before I had heard of Hawking's death, and as it happens, Rundgren had included a tribute to the man, titled simply "Hawking". As I understand it, Hawking has had shifting perspectives on the nature of God in the universe, at the time this song was done, he had written some stuff that implied...never mind, I don't want to get trapped into trying to reduce something so complicated into a few sentences. But trying to write of Hawking's life using the idiom of contemporary gospel music is an interesting idea, and with his passing, it's an appropriate time to give it a listen. So, without further ado, Todd Rundgren's "Hawking"...

Whenever I
I close my eyes
Then I don't mind being the way I am
But whenever I try
Explaining why
I know I never can

Now that it's
Gone, paths I used to travel
Gone, things I used to handle
Gone, once I had a choice what to be

But then God kissed me
And I lost it when I fainted in his arms
Have pity on me brother
I'm trapped behind the mirror
I'm out here on the border

Wondering why
Why was it I?
Maybe my mind wouldn't have come this way
If I'd taken my time
Answers only unwind
When you can't look away

Maybe 'cause
I want the secret broken
I want the casket open
I need to see what no eyes can see

And when God kissed me

Then I dreamed them when I fainted in her arms
Now I've got to go on sleeping
Lean in a little closer
And I'll tell you what I'm dreaming
I'll tell you what I'm dreaming

I see time without beginning
Space without an ending
I see bodies strong and running
With minds not comprehending
Have pity on your brother
Please have pity on your sister
Take pity on each other
And on every living creature

Whenever I
Open my eyes
I can't believe it's real
It's a jungle outside
People just survive
They can't reach the high ideal

But I
Know if I can't recover, at least I
Know, I know the book from cover to cover, and who
Knows, I might dream forever
Since I've met the world's greatest lover
When God kissed me
And I knew it when I fainted in his arms

Let's dream together people

Rundgren
   538. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5637798)
Well, you've recited his bio, but the fact that someone has a good c.v. doesn't mean that he's a good candidate. He could just be unlikeable and uncharismatic. *cough*Hillary*cough*. On the other hand, as Nate (I think) said yesterday morning before the election results came in, so much of this "bad candidate" stuff is ex post facto bullshit, based not on anything about the candidate but just about the results. Sometimes it's really true -- there's not much question about why Roy Moore lost. But much of the time, like team chemistry in baseball, it's a just so story.


Sure - and I make no claims that the grand total of ~10 minutes or so I've seen him speak in various clips makes me an expert on him, but he sounded neither dim-witted nor particularly charisma-challenged to me (I wouldn't call him particularly charismatic either).

But this hints at the problem... In the current GOP - a "good candidate" is Trump. The "charisma" comes in the form of saying the outrageous, doubling down on the outrageous, and always being on the lookout for the even more outrageous. Saccone wasn't that.

The only excuse sliver I might see as valid would be that Saccone was fairly anti-union (Murphy was not). However, if union support is to be an issue in rust belt states? More of that please, says this Democrat.
   539. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5637799)
293


There is no "scandal engulfing" the administration. That's pure partisan hysteria.


Keep hope alive!
   540. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5637800)
At what point does Trump reach out to Truby for help?
   541. Tom T Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5637801)
Hawking had 9 papers with over 1000 citations (per ADS), and an H-index in the 70s, so that's pretty good, aye.


How many papers did Hawking actually author? I ask because I generally see two categories of researches who end up with an H of 70+: (1) people who are authors on 25-35 papers every year (e.g., I know one guy who does mass spectrometry and is a relatively unique resource for the U...unclear if he has ever read or even written a single word in the majority of his "most highly cited" papers); and (2) people who have a rather "normal" output of 4-5 papers per year, and end up around 140 total. Obviously I tend to buy into the H-index as a "less-crappy" measure of success for the latter far more than for the former.

Bummer that you don't know Shipsey. He's a great guy. Now that I'm digging into it more, it looks like I need to talk with my high school buddies to a greater degree, given so many actually DO work in areas touching on dark matter detection.....
   542. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5637802)
Christ, where did you go to HS?
   543. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5637804)
Yesterday, I was listening to an album that I probably hadn't heard in 10 years: Todd Rundgren's Nearly Human... as it happens, Rundgren had included a tribute to the man, titled simply "Hawking".


Nice, but he's no MC Hawking.
   544. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5637805)
For most of my 3.7 decades on earth I had no idea who Todd Rundgren was, except for "Bang on the Drum" or whatever it is. At some point in the last few years I realized that "Hello It's Me" and "I Saw the Light" were Rundgren tunes - I had heard these on the radio enough but I had assumed both were, and I'm not joking, Carole King songs.

Just last night I pulled up "A Wizard / A True Star" on Spotify and I listened to the album 3 times in a row. Wow. That's a hell of an album.
   545. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5637806)
How famous would Steve Hawking have been if he didn't have his illness? Honest question. Was he a legit titan of science? Not trying to be a skeptical jerk, just curious.

He was a legitimately important guy in theoretical physics circles, but there are a bunch of people who did work of equal or greater importance who did not become household names outside the physics community. As Zonk pointed out, some of Hawking's public fame came from writing A Brief History of Time, but I don't think the book would have been such a big success if he hadn't been already well-known to the general public, and I doubt he would have achieved this initial level of public fame but for his illness.
   546. BrianBrianson Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5637807)
How many papers did Hawking actually author?


He's the first author on six, two where he's the 2nd author and his student is the first author, one where he was the third author with someone whose relation to him I'm not sure of. So, yes, he authored them all to a significant extent.
   547. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5637808)
#545, and others - Thanks for the answer.
   548. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5637809)
   549. Swoboda is freedom Posted: March 14, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5637810)
For most of my 3.7 decades on earth I had no idea who Todd Rundgren was, except for "Bang on the Drum" or whatever it is. At some point in the last few years I realized that "Hello It's Me" and "I Saw the Light" were Rundgren tunes - I had heard these on the radio enough but I had assumed both were, and I'm not joking, Carole King songs.


Check out Darryl's House. He does a great concert with Darryl Hall.

I think besides some great songs in the 70s, he was a very good and popular producer. The only time I saw him live was when he was with the Cars, as Ric Ocasek's replacement.
   550. Tom T Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:00 PM (#5637811)
Christ, where did you go to HS?


The "poor" high school across the river from the U.

However, we were the refuge for faculty who didn't want their kids hanging out with nothing but other faculty/doctor/lawyer kids (i.e., wanted their kids to know actual human beings).

We graduated about 500 each year, so even if we just go with 1% of the population getting a PhD, we have decent numbers from raw chance. My graduating class spawned two astrophysics faculty, one in English, one in engineering, one in computer technology, at least one law professor, and a couple others who I know are faculty but didn't know well enough to have learned their fields, plus probably another 4-5 PhDs who work in industry. The class ahead of me has a guy at Cambridge doing cutting-edge Alzheimer's research, a guy in neuroimaging at Michigan, multiple law professors...and that doesn't even cover most of their Top Ten.

Frankly was a heck of a "sweet spot" in time (we represented the beginning of the "baby bust" of '70) for the school...probably had about a 5-10 year run of ridiculous quality in the graduating classes. I also think our school was actually better, in the sense of delivering education --- hard to gauge the quality of the school next to the U given that they have a pretty narrowband signal coming in the doors, and those kids are going to excel even if you put wolves in front of the classroom.
   551. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5637812)
Yes I've listened to the Nazz a bit too, and liked them.

I was aware that Rundgren was a power pop pioneer and that he was active and influential as a producer and such, but I just hadn't actually listened to his music until very recently. Another miracle of the internet that I get to hear this classic stuff without having to drop $18 for an album that I might not even like.
   552. BDC Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5637813)
maybe that was an oversell, and her scientific record is closer to Sagan? Sagan did some good work on planetary atmospheres in the Solar system, but you wouldn't know his name if he hadn't done outreach (I might, but might require a bit of memory jogging).

Goodall is one of three directly comparable ethologists, each assigned an ape species to study by Louis Leakey. The other two are Dian Fossey (gorillas), famous for being murdered and having Sigourney Weaver play her in a biopic, and Birute Galdikas (orangutans). Most people don't know Galdikas' name, I would guess, though her work is equally important. So maybe the analogy to Sagan is about right. Ethologists, like astrophysicists, are rarely superstars; I guess Farley Mowat is an example, but he was more adventure writer than academic.

Again, more detail than anybody wanted, but I thought the comparison was interesting.
   553. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5637814)
   554. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5637816)
Keep in mind that our vigilant SBB is on record as saying "sneaky" is a racist term.


Still not funny. Sorry.
   555. Omineca Greg Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5637818)
At some point in the last few years I realized that "Hello It's Me" and "I Saw the Light" were Rundgren tunes - I had heard these on the radio enough but I had assumed both were, and I'm not joking, Carole King songs.

Don't want to hi-todd the thread, but this is worth speaking to.

Gonfalon's link to "Open My Eyes" is pretty typical of what Todd was up to in his earliest years: a Philly take on British Invasion. Somewhere along the way, he got fascinated with Carole King and Laura Nyro, and began working in that vein. That's unusual for a guy rocker to be so completely inspired by women musicmakers, but that's the way it happened. Eventually he moved on to other things, but he never lost that ability to go King and Nyro's styles as the mood came. If you want to hear a love letter to Carole King, try Runt: The Ballad Of Todd Rundgren and for a Nyro rewrite try the song "Baby Let's Swing"/"The Last Thing You Said"/"Don't Tie My Hands" link.
   556. Shredder Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5637819)
Sagan's dead, Hawking's dead, and Bill Nye is healthy as a mule.
All the speed walking keeps him in shape.
   557. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5637820)

Don't want to hi-todd the thread, but this is worth speaking to.


Don't apologize. I'd much, much, much rather read about Hawking or Rundgren than about SBB or an apparently almost meaningless tiny election.
   558. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5637821)
and I doubt he would have achieved this initial level of public fame but for his illness.
With him and Lou Gehrig, that ALS thing seems like the way to go to become a celebrity.
   559. Lassus Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5637824)
No one cared when it was John Morgan's disease.
   560. Omineca Greg Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:28 PM (#5637825)
Don't apologize. I'd much, much, much rather read about Hawking or Rundgren than about SBB or an apparently almost meaningless tiny election.

OK then. The other thing people should know about Todd Rundgren, is that he raised Liv Tyler:

Todd Rundgren always knew AEROSMITH singer Steven Tyler was the real father of his surrogate daughter Liv Tyler, but decided to raise her as his own because her parents were "children themselves".

The veteran rocker, who dated Liv's groupie mother Bebe Buell, was present at the Hollywood actress' birth, cut her umbilical cord, and brought her up as his daughter during the years when her biological father Tyler was touring with his notoriously drug-fuelled band.

Responsible Rundgren, 55, admits, "I would love for Steven Tyler to have taken responsibility at the time.

"But for me, the adults were such children themselves that I thought, 'Well, how can a little girl grow up thinking that nobody wanted to be her father?'

"It was not like I was a dummy, or completely unaware of Steven Tyler. As far as I'm concerned she's still my daughter and I'm still incredibly proud of her, and I love her, and whenever we get together it's just blissful - for both of us."

link

Liv also speaks of the relationship in glowing terms. Is this a well known thing already?
   561. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5637826)
My most notable "attachment" to Todd Rundgren is that when I was young and just starting to get into music, I mistakenly thought he was part of the E Street Band and bought my first Rundgren album (I couldn't even tell you which one) specifically because of that.

To this day, I have very little idea where or how I developed that misconception... Rundgren has worked with so many artists and done so much production work, I assume he's probably crossed paths with Springsteen at some point. It's one of those grand mysteries of my life I hope gets revealed when I die because it has always stuck in the back of my mind as a question.

My absolute best guess is Rundgren worked on the production of Meatloaf's Bat of Hell and it's been often quoted that he found the album hilarious, believing it a parody of Springsteen. I may have read this one of the many sub-Rolling Stone fanboy rock mags of the 80s and simply misremembered the circumstances of some article I devoured.

   562. Traderdave Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5637827)
Just saw a scrolling news line on Bloomie that the R's are hiring a "consultant" to investigate voting irregularities in the the PA race.
   563. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5637828)
506

There's a reason the NYT had never really used the term "White Hispanic" as a descriptor and that reason is that the paper's philosophy has morphed from actual liberalism to modern liberalism.


Man, they're everywhere, aren't they...?
   564. Omineca Greg Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5637830)
To this day, I have very little idea where or how I developed that misconception

You might have had him confused with Nils Lofgren...
   565. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5637831)
510

It's all semantic gobbledygook


Racism! Or parody!

I forget which...
   566. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5637832)
And Donald Trump made two appearances with Saccone, not one. But he hasn't tweeted yet today to blame the candidate and absolve himself. They must have hidden Trump's cell phone where he can't find it. Probably under a daily briefing.

Or he hasn't yet figured out whether to blame Saccone, VOTER FRAUD, Crooked Hillary or THE LYING MEDIA.

Decisions, decisions!


Just saw a scrolling news line on Bloomie that the R's are hiring a "consultant" to investigate voting irregularities in the the PA race.


I hear Tim Murphy might be available, if the Moral Majority doesn't grab him first.
   567. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:37 PM (#5637834)
511

They further think that it's worthwhile - at a societal level - to understand why the self-appointed vigilante was stalking the kid who was breaking no laws and then killed him without penalty.


Hey! The kid was wearing a hoodie, f'r chrissakes!
   568. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5637835)
Liv also speaks of the relationship in glowing terms. Is this a well known thing already?


Yes. I think it was largely "known" for a long time - and got "publicly" known when Tyler got clean and he and Liv reconciled...

FWIW, Liv Tyler was married - and had a kid with, I think - Royston Langdon of Spacehog, and he occasionally tours with Rundgren (I think Rundgren may have also done production work on one of their albums).

I think Spacehog is a criminally underrated band... not saying that they're pantheon-esque or anything; just that I think Spacehog gets written off as a novelty act when it really should not be.
   569. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5637836)
To this day, I have very little idea where or how I developed that misconception


You might have had him confused with Nils Lofgren...


Another very distinct possibility.
   570. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5637837)
Actual people see a self-appointed vigilante stalking a teenager who was breaking no laws but became concerned that he was being stalked and attempted to turn the tables on his stalker, before being murdered for his trouble... They don't think self-appointed vigilantes should stalk kids and then be able to shoot and kill them without penalty.

They further think that it's worthwhile - at a societal level - to understand why the self-appointed vigilante was stalking the kid who was breaking no laws and then killed him without penalty.


Except modern liberals and modern liberal outlets didn't see it that way, otherwise they wouldn't have done things like take such great pains to parse and announce GZ's race. Why did the NYT parse him down to a "White Hispanic"? Simple -- because that mattered greatly to them. It's the mattering that makes it modern liberal.
   571. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5637838)
Why did the NYT parse him down to a "White Hispanic"? Simple -- because that mattered greatly to them. It's the mattering that makes it modern liberal.


Only a head in the sand old emu would think George Zimmerman and Jorge Soler stand to receive the same treatment in a dark subdivision or a Serie A away tilt. Skin tone matters ya know?
   572. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5637839)
Except modern liberals and modern liberal outlets didn't see it that way, otherwise they wouldn't have done things like take such great pains to parse and announce GZ's race. Why did the NYT parse him down to a "White Hispanic"? Simple -- because that mattered greatly to them. It's the mattering that makes it modern liberal.


Uh-huh.

That's what I get for missing the 2012 Modern Liberal Conference where we revised the NYT style sheet, I guess.

   573. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5637840)
It's the mattering that makes it modern liberal.
Says the guy to whom it MATTERS so much.

Now *that's* funny!
   574. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5637841)
No. Go back and read what I wrote. I noted that you are unable to name such politicians, because there are none.


LOL. You "noted" wrong, as usual. I am not "unable" to do any such thing; I'm simply not interested in doing it because -- as I said -- I'm talking about philosophies.

I think it fabulous you admit you and your political philosophy are not relevant.


Of course. I'm liberal, you're illiberal. Why would that be a shock?

You got it completely wrong above, again no surprise. The US Democratic Party has become modern liberal, but liberalism hasn't become modern liberal. That distinction will likely whoosh over your head, but at least I tried.
   575. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5637843)
Just saw a scrolling news line on Bloomie that the R's are hiring a "consultant" to investigate voting irregularities in the the PA race.


Well, Clapper's forensic experts from the Roy Moore race are still on retainer and getting paid for nothing, so it makes sense.

In any case, I fully support this... By all means, keep the race in the news for a few more weeks.

Golly, I hope Trump doesn't add to it with a VOTER FRAUD tweet or something... that would be just awful!

/Br'er Rabbit
   576. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5637845)
Let's play SBB jeopardy!

but at least I tried.


What is the most commonly heard statement in a seedy hotel room with SBB and a lady of the corners?
   577. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5637846)
Uh-huh.

That's what I get for missing the 2012 Modern Liberal Conference where we revised the NYT style sheet, I guess.


Concession accepted.


   578. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5637847)
Only question left for Trumpkins on twitter is how much dark matter does this Nth dimension chess board contain, anyways?

Rush Limbaugh just said the same thing that I said last night, that in order for the Democrats to compete in elections they have to run on a trump agenda. That's what lamb ran on. He openly opposed Nancy Pelosi, said he was pro-gun and pro-life and pro-union and supports tariffs


lol. That's from @1776jackson, a rather profligate Trumpian, even for the type.
   579. BDC Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5637849)
SBB jeopardy

Trump continues his exemplary stewardship of the financial markets.


What is SBB's version of Marty Feldman's immortal Young Frankenstein line "It could be worse. It could be raining!"?
   580. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5637851)
On this sad day, a moving Presidential tribute.




I mistakenly thought [Todd Rundgren] was part of the E Street Band and bought my first Rundgren album (I couldn't even tell you which one) specifically because of that. To this day, I have very little idea where or how I developed that misconception

You might have had him confused with Nils Lofgren...



I always enjoyed Todd Rundgren's Pippi Longstocking books.




I think Spacehog is a criminally underrated band... not saying that they're pantheon-esque or anything; just that I think Spacehog gets written off as a novelty act when it really should not be.


I also like Spacehog more than is warranted. People kind of know "In the Meantime," one of those great "who did that?" singles of the era like "Possum Kingdom," "Lovefool," "Flagpole Sitta" or "Seether." But how about "Mungo City"?
   581. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5637852)
Concession accepted.


What is the SECOND most common phrase uttered in seedy hotel rooms shared by SBB and a streetwalker?
   582. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5637853)
564

You might have had him confused with Nils Lofgren...


I was thinking the same thing, OG.
   583. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5637854)
From The Guardian, December 2017. Should sound quite familiar indeed:

In August, Lilla doubled down on his argument with The Once and Future Liberal: After Identity Politics (2017), a short book and his first for a popular audience. “We need no more marchers. We need more mayors,” he wrote. Only by articulating a political vision that speaks to all Americans, Lilla believes, can Democrats secure political power, turn the tide of Trumpism, and help minorities.

Lilla, a liberal, wants to save liberalism from itself.

Many progressives, however, are less than pleased with Lilla’s prescriptions. Some critics resent the notion of a middle-aged white male encouraging the left to turn away from social activism. There’s also the question of ideological purity: Lilla began his career as a protege of neoconservative intellectual Irving Kristol. Most controversially, Lilla’s criticisms of identity politics come at a time when progressives believe minority groups need greater attention, not less.

In debates on the progressive left, Lilla has therefore become a kind of shorthand, or meta-concept – a punching bag whose invocation is understood to stand in for smug bourgeois centrism.

After his op-ed last fall, Lilla got his “first Twitter bath, all in acid”, he later told an interviewer, with left-leaning Twitter users offering their two cents on his politics in disparaging and often explicit detail. “If I ever thought I wanted to read what Mark Lilla thinks, I would hit myself in the head with a hammer until the feeling went away,” one of the more printable tweets suggested.

In a rebuttal of Lilla for the Los Angeles Review of Books, Katherine Franke, a colleague of Lilla’s at Columbia, accused him of ‘Making White Supremacy Respectable. Again’ and compared him to former Klan leader David Duke. In a hostile review for the New York Times, Yale historian Beverly Gage called Lilla’s book “trolling (*) disguised as erudition”.

During a recent interview in his university office in Manhattan, Lilla, 61, brushed off such criticisms, which he described as a “willful misreading” of his ideas.


Mark Lilla -- White Supremicist and David Duke seemalike. And troll.(**)

LOLOL.

TDS? What TDS??

(*) Heh.

(**) As goes BTF, so goes America. What's described in that story is exactly, precisely what goes on here. Virtually to the letter. Uncanny.
   584. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5637855)
Roll your eyes, get disappeared.

Maybe we'll give that a shot some day.
   585. Lassus Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5637856)
Nils Lofgren is one of those "music guy" names that I've always known is an important music guy but couldn't give you a single reason why, or anything he did.
   586. dlf Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:03 PM (#5637858)
Well, Clapper's forensic experts from the Roy Moore race are still on retainer and getting paid for nothing, so it makes sense.


Vaguely related to Moore ... the Sheriff for Etowah County, Alabama, home to the twice removed Chief Justice, has made the news lately for using a quarter of a million dollars to buy a second beach house on the Gulf Coast. Hey, I'm all for folks spending time at the beach and Orange Beach Alabama has some of the most beautiful sand you could possibly find as well as being the home of the infamous Flora-Bama Lounge. But unlike most people with a $93,500 annual salary, this Sheriff now has real estate holdings valued over $1.7m. How, you ask? Well, in Alabama, apparently the sheriffs are allowed to personally pocket any money that is earmarked to feed inmates but not actually used and, according to ethics forms he has to file, he has personally pocketed "over $250,000" each of the last three years. Sheriff Todd Entrekin
   587. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5637859)
Ha! - I can do all of those without looking them up...


I think Spacehog is a criminally underrated band... not saying that they're pantheon-esque or anything; just that I think Spacehog gets written off as a novelty act when it really should not be.


I also like Spacehog more than is warranted. People kind of know "In the Meantime," one of those great "who did that?" singles of the era like "Possum Kingdom,"(The Toadies, an inferior single to "I Come from the Water") "Lovefool," (The Cardigans... blech) "Flagpole Sitta" (Harvey Danger! Another minor underrated) or "Seether." (Veruca Salt... and come on, Veruca Salt does not belong in this list) But how about "Mungo City"?


Yeah - Mungo City is good... but I think my favorite is off the subsequent album, the immortal The Hogyssey -- This is America

The Statue of Liberty lost her virginity to me
Oh yeah
But I get my rocks off by watching the cops on TV
Oh yeah

I'm feel needy, cheap and greedy
Won't you give me the thing that I need
But I'm not to blame cause my video game got my mind
All right
   588. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5637862)
LOL. You "noted" wrong, as usual. I am not "unable" to do any such thing; I'm simply not interested in doing it because -- as I said -- I'm talking about philosophies.


Nonsense. Utter nonsense. There are no politicians, Democrats or otherwise, that are Stretchy Liberal. They don't exist. So yeah, of course you don't "choose" to name them. Like I choose not to name all the Unicorns and Sasquatches.

Many democrats are liberal (some are not). No Democrats are Stretchy Liberal. And they never were and never will be.
   589. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5637863)
Let's play SBB jeopardy!

but at least I tried.


What is the most commonly heard statement in a seedy hotel room with SBB and a lady of the corners?

OTOH the most common cry from that lady of the corners after her, er, "brief encounter" with Shrinky Boy, has to be "LOL".
   590. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5637864)
With its imaginary and fake associations of completely dissimilar things and its gratuitous smears, this drivel from Katherine Franke in the LA Review of Books is vintage OTP circle jerk:

Last Friday, two tweets were posted to my feed within minutes of each other. David Duke tweeted: “Bannon, Flynn, Sessions – Great! Senate must demand that Sessions as AG stop the massive institutional racism against whites!” (Yes, I follow David Duke on Twitter — I now follow many right wing sites, I learn more from them than I do from the echo chamber of Facebook), and the New York Times tweeted out Mark Lilla’s opinion piece, “The End of Identity Liberalism.” In the new political climate we now inhabit, Duke and Lilla were contributing to the same ideological project, the former cloaked in a KKK hood, the latter in an academic gown.




   591. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5637867)
Nonsense. Utter nonsense. There are no politicians, Democrats or otherwise, that are Stretchy Liberal. They don't exist.


It doesn't become any more true on the 1,562,399th repetition.
   592. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5637868)
Weird how Stretchy can name endless number of "Modern Liberal" people, institutions and such, but can never name anyone (other than he and Mr. Lilla, BFFs, of course) who is "True Liberal".

Quite a mystery. Almost unsolvable ... to a four year old.
   593. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5637869)
It doesn't become any more true on the 1,562,399th repetition.


Or any less true. Concession accepted.
   594. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5637870)
Weird how Stretchy can name endless number of "Modern Liberal" people, institutions and such, but can never name anyone (other than he and Mr. Lilla, BFFs, of course) who it s "True Liberal".


LOL. I named Dershowitz, too. And noted the ridiculous modern liberal reaction thereto.
   595. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5637871)
Actually, to Franke, the Columbia professor, Lilla is worse than Duke:

Both men are underwriting the whitening of American nationalism, and the re-centering of white lives as lives that matter most in the U.S. Duke is happy to own the white supremacy of his statements, while Lilla’s op-ed does the more nefarious background work of making white supremacy respectable. Again.


   596. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5637872)
BTW -

"In the Meantime" isn't even the best song on Resident Alien...

The best is either Space is the Place (decidedly NSFW) or maybe Cruel to Be Kind .

I consider the whole 80s hair band stuff worthwhile because after years of failed experimentation to fuse peak-Bowie glam rock with 70s arena/hard rock - I think that's what ultimately gave birth to Spacehog.... and the suffering was well worth it.
   597. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5637873)
LOL. I named Dershowitz, too. And noted the ridiculous modern liberal reaction thereto.


Oooh, there are THREE of you. Do either of them know they are Stretchy Liberals? Anyway concession still very much accepted, until you name an actual elected politician in office here in the US.

I know, I know, you don't "choose" to do so. For reasons. The best reasons. Well, best reason anyway. Because there are none.
   598. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5637876)
Dershowitz, totally not a Modern Liberal. LOL.

Alan Dershowitz

Dershowitz endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2008 presidential election, and later endorsed the party nominee, Barack Obama.


   599. . Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5637877)
Since the modern liberal/actual liberal debate has been joined, let's break some of this down. Again Franke, a Columbia professor and Lilla colleague:

By [Lilla's] telling, left movements have indulged a narcissistic “moral panic” of identity that has devolved into whining about trivial complaints of invisibility, exclusion, and an obsession with petty individual feelings.


Yep.

This attachment to a counterproductive politics of identity and personal grievance, he argues, diverts our attention from the more important project of defending a collective commitment to a pre-civil rights-era notion of a national personality.


Yep. It not only divides our attention, but divides the country in ways that are by their very nature permanent.

This grander, transhistorical idea of nation is unmarked by difference and is strengthened by an attachment to shared liberal values.


Yep. That the nation would be and is strengthened by an attachment to shared liberal values is virtually inarguable.

He argues that students, brought up on discussions of identity and diversity, have “shockingly little to say about such perennial questions as class, war, the economy and the common good” as if these forms of political discourse have nothing to do with one another.


Yep. Obviously empirically correct and there can be no serious argument that blathering about identity has all but eliminated any discussions of class (or for that matter war, the economy and the common good.)

Talking about identity, or better yet status-based power, does not preclude discussions of class, war, the economy or the common good.


Except it can, and has.

And while Lilla grants that the women’s rights movement was “real and important” (an acknowledgement that resonates more as mansplaining than munificence), any benefits that may have been achieved by the women’s or other social justice movements, are premised upon “the founding fathers’ achievement in establishing a system of government based on the guarantee of rights.”


Obviously true. The "mansplaining" remark is juvenile and ratifies Lilla's perspective.
   600. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5637878)
Actually, to Franke, the Columbia professor, Lilla is worse than Duke:

Both men are underwriting the whitening of American nationalism, and the re-centering of white lives as lives that matter most in the U.S. Duke is happy to own the white supremacy of his statements, while Lilla’s op-ed does the more nefarious background work of making white supremacy respectable. Again.


What is a good example of SBB not understanding how grammatical concepts like possessive and object work?

Have we gotten to the Daily Double yet?
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