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Monday, November 13, 2017

OTP 13 November 2017: Politics, race now touching every sport

Like legions of Giants fans who hate the Los Angeles Dodgers, Le rooted for the Houston Astros to beat them in the World Series. But he changed his mind, swallowed hard and began cheering for the Dodgers after Yuri Gurriel, a Cuban-born Astro, hit a home run against Japanese pitcher Yu Darvish then was caught on camera pulling the corners of his eyes with his fingers in a racist gesture.

“I couldn’t really be OK with them winning any longer,” Le said of the Astros.

With Gurriel’s gesture, yet another major sporting event in the United States came to be viewed through a prism of race, politics or both.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:05 AM | 1997 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, dodgers, politics, world series

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   1. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:20 AM (#5574987)
GOP fears Roy Moore will cost them a Senate seat

UPDATE: A Republican close to McConnell said that contrary to the view we originally reported here, McConnell has "led the pack on Moore from day one": "McConnell is a very pragmatic guy, but he's very principled guy. And he's willing to lose the seat to prevent someone who's guilty of these things from taking it."
   2. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5574991)
And his larger point is that everyone in TDSland is assuming all kinds of illegality with regard to Trump, while at the same time giving Hillary a complete pass on everything, drawing every inference in her favor, shielding her from any notion of wrongdoing.


This bullshit, again. She's not the president. That war is over. What do you want to do about her? She has no influence at all about anything. This is just a distraction. Trump just ###### things up royally in Asia. Made nice with Duterte, a murderer. Implied that Putin didn't meddle, or, at worst, didn't know about the meddling. Kept antagonizing Un. Has no idea what to do about China making deals with other Asian nations now that we've left TPP, leaving us on the outside looking in. Your president is a disaster, every day something new comes up that proves it, yet your obsession with Hillary Clinton is supposedly a "good look".


"A red carpet treatment like none ever before!", Trump Bleeted. Riiiight. Like no other POTUS was treated respectfully, only Trump. Because he's Trump. This guy has to die of an aneurysm, and soon.
   3. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5574993)
Start counting the cases where high school seniors become lifetime sex offenders for having sophomore girlfriends.


A 32 year old is not a ####### high school senior you gibbering gob.
   4. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5574994)
Start counting the cases where high school seniors become lifetime sex offenders for having sophomore girlfriends. And where truly depraved child molesters get lost in the bureaucratic shuffle.


Nice distraction, #### for brains.
   5. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5574996)
Perros, you're almost worse than Trump.
   6. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:26 AM (#5574997)
A 32 year old is not a ####### high school senior you gibbering gob.


Not in Moore's particular case, but this is Alabama, so I dunno ...
   7. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:27 AM (#5574998)
Erm, a person over 18 "feeling up" a 14 year old IS child molesting.

Start counting the cases where high school seniors become lifetime sex offenders for having sophomore girlfriends.


I anticipated this response but didn't actually believe you were desperate enough to make it. Yes, I suppose somewhere there is a 17 year old dating a 13 year old and people are sort of uncomfortable with it but at least it's legal... and then he turns 18 and then people are now uncomfortable with suddenly deeming him a criminal... But that is not what happened here; Moore was over 30 at the time.

Moreover, we're not talking about statutory rape; we're talking about child molestation.
   8. Traderdave Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5575001)
This guy has to die of an aneurysm, and soon.


Too quick, not enough suffering.
   9. Blastin Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5575002)
I mean, "what about 18 year olds" is dumb in the first place, but he WAS NOT 18.
   10. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:31 AM (#5575003)
Most statutory rape laws have some fudge factor where it's fine if you're within X years (I think typically X = 2, which suits me fine, but I might be okay with X = 3 or possibly 4? Definitely not X = 18)
   11. GordonShumway Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:32 AM (#5575007)
"McConnell is a very pragmatic guy, but he's very principled guy. And he's willing to lose the seat to prevent someone who's guilty of these things from taking it."


Does anyone here actually believe this?
   12. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5575010)
Does anyone here actually believe this?


I am normally the first to believe ill of Mitch McConnell, but I would like to believe he is being serious. In net ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
   13. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5575013)
I mean, "what about 18 year olds" is dumb in the first place, but he WAS NOT 18.


Not that Satan's obvious trollery needs any deep analysis, but it's important to point out that Ray specifically said "over 18", not 18. Which means at least 19. Most 19 YO's are out of high school. Most 14 YOs are freshmen. Now re-phrase Ray's statement literally: A HS graduate fondling a HS freshman. A 19 YO could be a college sophomore. A 14 YO could be an 8th grader. Now it's a college kid fondling a middle schooler.
   14. PreservedFish Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5575014)
That was a nice community bipartisan smackdown of Perros.
   15. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5575015)
Here's How The 2017 Elections Greatly Complicate The GOP's Tax Bill Calculations

On the one hand, they can heed the plea of GOP congressional leaders and the White House to vote for any tax bill no matter how much it might hurt their districts or states because the Republican party just needs to get it done. They say the GOP House and Senate majorities will be in serious reelection jeopardy if, after their failure to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, Congress fails again on taxes. Their mantra is, "To hell with your voters; you have to support the tax bill for the good of the party."

But, in light of the extremely negative political trend for that party, it no longer clear how many individual GOP senators and representatives will be willing to blindly chant the tax bill mantra the Republican leadership is demanding.

Instead, individual members are at least hinting -- and many are openly saying -- that the Republican Party is no longer as important as their personal reelection prospects. That means the bill's enactment may not be as important to them as preventing locally politically noxious individual provisions -- like the deductibility of state and local taxes -- from becoming law.


Much like with ACA repeal, the GOP can enact tax cuts if they really want to, but how much do they want to in light of the political reality on the ground?
   16. dlf Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5575016)
Useless anecdata ... I drove through Alabama yesterday (I-85 from the GA line to Montgomery, I-65 south, then Hwy 59 / 180 in Baldwin County). I saw hundreds of Roy Moore yard signs (often in highway right of ways) and saw one for Doug Jones.
   17. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5575017)
Most statutory rape laws have some fudge factor where it's fine if you're within X years

Romeo and Juliet Laws, as they are called … implying that it's OK, as long as the guy takes poison and the girl stabs herself.
   18. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5575022)
"McConnell is a very pragmatic guy, but he's very principled guy. And he's willing to lose the seat to prevent someone who's guilty of these things from taking it."

Does anyone here actually believe this?


No. He's a politician.

Clapper is right in one thing, though: both sides do this.
   19. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5575024)
Is the implication supposed to be that Romeo was older? I mean, I've read that play, and I don't buy that Romeo is noticably older than Juliette's 13. Like - he ####### poisons himself over a three day relationship. That's the behaviour of a 13 year old, not a 16+ year old.
   20. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:48 AM (#5575026)
The problem for this hypothetical defense of Moore is that Corfman's accusation isn't "by itself." We know that this 32-year old prosecutor DID in fact go around hitting on teens. We have three others saying it. We have Moore not actually denying it to Hannity. We have Moore's former co-worker saying it. Those other instances do bolster her claim. And the fact that he also married a woman fourteen years younger than him, 24 when he was 38, is weak evidence, but it's not inconsistent with the accusation.

(I would also note that if this were a deliberate fabrication, it would've made more sense for Corfman to accuse him of more than she did. If it's a political hit job, why not charge him with rape, rather than arguing that he molested her but then stopped when she demanded that he do so?)


And it's a strange political hit job when it centers on a woman who voted for Trump, voted for Bush twice, and made a post on Facebook where she spoke about buying Stonewall Jackson memorabilia.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

McConnell is a very pragmatic guy, but he's very principled guy. And he's willing to lose the seat to prevent someone who's guilty of these things from taking it."

Does anyone here actually believe this?

In McConnell's defense, he was the chairman of the Senate Ethics Committee whose scathing report on Bob Packwood led to his resignation and replacement by a Democrat in a special election.
   21. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:49 AM (#5575027)
i once worked with a guy who was a 20 year old senior in high school who was dating something like a 16 year old sophomore. I️ think they were practically living with each other as well. Anyway, she was on birth control but She got pregnant because she was on antibiotics or some such thing that negates the drugs.

Rust belt families always make me shake my head. How they deal with teenagers seems practically to guarantee to continue the hardship onto their kids and grandkids as well as themselves.
   22. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5575031)
Turkey is lying here. Clinton/the DNC paid Fusion GPS. Not "a foreign national."

A distinction very much without a difference.
Ray: "Hillary is bad because she hired a foreigner to do X."
Me: "Hillary didn't hire a foreigner to do X; she hired an American firm to do X."
Ray: "Well, that doesn’t matter."
No, actually, all you're doing is splitting hairs so fine that your argument is mockworthy.
No. You're just trolling. The difference between finding out information from people who live in Russia and the Russian government is not a hair; it is massive, huge, virtually the entire ballgame.
What they both "did" was to meet with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya to try to learn dirt on the other. Hillary was smart enough to pay a surrogate who did it for her, while Trump JR was dumb enough to meet with Veselnitskaya himself, but both camps "did" essentially the same thing.
No. Hillary didn't meet with Natalia Veselnitskaya. There's no evidence that Hillary paid a surrogate to meet with Veselnitskaya. And the claim that Fusion GPS met with Veselnitskaya for the purpose of gathering dirt on Trump for Hillary is also completely unsubstantiated. Fusion GPS had been hired by BakerHostetler to do work for their client Prevezon, who Veselnitskaya also represented. There is no evidence that the meetings between Fusion GPS and Veselnitskaya had anything to do with Trump, rather than with Prevezon.
Moreover, even if against all odds Hillary did NOT know what the people she paid were doing with her money, that STILL wouldn't absolve her of the need to apologize for what was done with her money and on her behalf, if what was done was so horrible when the other campaign was doing it.
Even if you're right that one is obligated to "apologize for" bad things that an independent contractor one hired did, I'm not clear who she's supposed to apologize to, or for what. She didn't do anything wrong that we know of (relating to this). We don't know that Fusion GPS did anything wrong. We don't know that Steele did anything wrong.

And in any case, the issue here has nothing whatsoever to do with "apologies," so it's an utter red herring. Whether Hillary apologizes when she should has to do with social graces, which is not the accusation against Trump. The accusation against Trump, which neither you nor Turley have even bothered to pay attention to, let alone made any attempt to address, is that Trump consciously worked with the Russian government to try to win the election.¹ In contrast, you and Turley have not shown that Hillary worked with the Russian government, directly or indirectly, consciously or unconsciously. All you've shown is that Hillary hired an American firm, which hired a British ex-spy, who talked to people who are from Russia.
The argument is not whether X was illegal.
Well, that's always your fallback argument whenever a new revelation about Trump surfaces, but fine.
The argument is that if it's illegal WHEN TRUMP DOES IT then it's illegal WHEN HILLARY DOES it.
Absolutely. The problem is that neither you nor Turkey seem to grasp what the "it" is, and therefore you are incapable of showing that Hillary did what Trump did.


And -- this is why people call you a pedant -- that's all Turley meant by "approved." Hillary had input into the decision and she gave it a thumbs up.
So Turley is a terrible writer, because "recommended" and "approved" mean very different things. And "was one of a dozen people who had input into a recommendation" and "approved" mean even different-er things than that. It's not pedantry; the distinction very much matters because there's no direct evidence of a quid pro quo. The only facts are that Bill got some money at one time and the Department of State made a recommendation at another. So in order to imply that there's some "scandal" there, it's very much necessary to pretend that Hillary made a decision that's outrageous and otherwise inexplicable, such that the money is a likely cause of that decision. But given that her State Department was one of about a dozen agencies making that recommendation, it's implausible that it's either outrageous or otherwise inexplicable. (And, in fact, it makes it less likely that the intent of the money was to buy her recommendation, because bribing a decisionmaker makes sense, while bribing one of a dozen recommenders makes a lot less sense.)




¹ This accusation is bolstered -- by which I mean 100% confirmed -- by the fact that Donald Trump Jr. was contacted by someone who said, "The Russian government wants to help you win, and they have dirt on Hillary and want to meet with you," and Trump said, "I love that," and brought along the innerist of the inner circle, Kushner and Manafort, to the meeting. Whether that's a crime might be ambiguous. Whether the meeting was fruitful might be uncertain. But there's no dispute that this is what happened. Whether other things happened at other times with other people is still being investigated.
   23. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5575032)
Multiple people have come forward to say that Corfman told them at the time, or later but still years and years ago.

Of an older man in tighty whiteys.

It only became Moore in the context of a political campaign to defeat him.
You're lying again. She told at least some of them specifically, years or decades ago, that it was Roy Moore.
   24. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5575035)
No. You're just trolling. The difference between finding out information from people who live in Russia and the Russian government is not a hair; it is massive, huge, virtually the entire ballgame.


You are, of course, free to continue to pretend otherwise (*) -- TDS gonna TDS, after all -- but "Source A" and "Source B" in the dossier have been identified.(*) And were identified to the head of Fusion GPS.

(*) Again, we're fortunate that there was a time before H. Clinton was known as the architect of the dossier that the MSM played it straight about it, hoping that it would smear Trump. Try as the TDSers might, that reporting can't be undone, just as the reporting on the Carter Page FISA warrants also can't be undone.

   25. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5575036)

#6 deserves a Primey, IMO.
   26. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5575037)
McConnell changes his tune on Roy Moore: 'I believe the women' and Moore 'should step aside'

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is making a big shift from his original stance on Roy Moore’s history of preying on teenage girls. “I believe the women, yes,” McConnell said speaking to reporters in Kentucky. Not only that, Moore “should step aside.”


Mitch is acting like someone should if they believe the allegations. He could be dissembling, of course, in service of the long term.
   27. zack Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:00 PM (#5575040)

Rust belt families always make me shake my head. How they deal with teenagers seems practically to guarantee to continue the hardship onto their kids and grandkids as well as themselves.

Is there a word missing in the first sentence? How do "rust belt families" deal with teenagers, and how is that any different from those of other regions?
   28. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5575041)
McConnell changes his tune on Roy Moore: 'I believe the women' and Moore 'should step aside'
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is making a big shift from his original stance on Roy Moore’s history of preying on teenage girls. “I believe the women, yes,” McConnell said speaking to reporters in Kentucky. Not only that, Moore “should step aside.”

Mitch is acting like someone should if they believe the allegations. He could be dissembling, of course, in service of the long term.

That could well be, and IMO it'd be a smart long term move for the GOP to rid themselves of a child molester. But again, McConnell did this with Packwood, so it's not as if it'd be a first time stand for him on something like this.

   29. PepTech Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5575045)
"A red carpet treatment like none ever before!", Trump Bleeted. Riiiight. Like no other POTUS was treated respectfully, only Trump.
This is the kind of thing I am concerned about. It's not comparing Trump to HRC; it's looking at Trump independently and being legitimately concerned about what's going on. First, he's shown that he can be played, easily. Look at all the tweets this past week emphasizing solely how he, Trump, has been "treated with respect" and served a good dinner. Furthermore, you know what struck me about his long-form comments this week? It has the exact look and feel of a sixth grader making their first pass as a persuasive essay:
"I believe that he feels that he and Russia did not meddle in the election. As to whether I believe it or not, I am with our agencies, especially as currently constituted with the leadership. I believe that our intel agencies, our intelligence agencies, I work with them very strongly ... As currently led, by fine people, I believe very much in our intelligence agencies," Trump said.
“When we can save many, many, many lives by making a deal with Russia having to do with Syria, and then ultimately getting Syria solved, and getting Ukraine solved, and doing other things, having a good relationship with Russia is a great, great thing. And this artificial Democratic hit job gets in the way. It gets in the way. And that’s a shame. Because people will die because of it, and it’s a pure hit job, and it’s artificially induced and that’s shame.”
This is what passes for stream of consciousness with this man. Read those passages again, and pretend you're teaching Language Arts in the local middle school - you'd weep. Trump literally has shown zero external evidence that he processes anything above the level of a child. This had led to the current situation:
Trump is very much like the devoted Fox viewer who sits mesmerized in front of the screen, searching for evidence to support his prejudices, baseless suspicions and grievances against elites. See, there's another crime by an immigrant. See, they're all murderers. See, Sean Hannity found someone to say the Democrats hacked themselves! See, the Russia investigation is a hoax. Soaking up the brew of innuendo, hoaxes, lies and paranoia, Trump and his followers come to believe it all — and disbelieve the facts under their noses.

Trump and his followers are willing to believe anything because they want to believe anything that confirms their counterfactual world. Anyone who sides with their alternative universe (Sebastian Gorka, Vladimir Putin, Bill O'Reilly, Roy Moore) is a hero and a victim of those pro-immigrant, globalist, anti-Christian elites. Anyone who presents cold, hard facts (the mainstream media, scientists, allied governments, Democrats, #NeverTrumpers) that explode their dearly held myths is an enemy of the people.
Clinton Watts, a former FBI special agent on the Joint Terrorism Task Force, earlier this year explained:

"Russian influence of Trump most likely falls into the category of what Madeleine Albright called a 'Useful Idiot' — a 'useful fool' — an enthusiast for Putin supportive of any issue or stance that feeds his ego and brings victory....What's more, the Kremlin now has useful idiots in the persons of Fox News hosts, right-wing American bloggers, talk show hosts and Steve Bannon (who is out recruiting like-minded Senate candidates) to buck up their pet U.S. president. Most of all, the Kremlin can count on the Republican tribalists in Congress who will explain away evidence and savage the president's accusers to protect the GOP tribe and its leader — who just so happens to be an easy mark for our most formidable international foe.
(James) Clapper and Brennan go on Sunday TV and say that POTUS is being played by Russia and China. But hey, Gorsuch is on the Supremes, so it's all still good, right? Will it still seem so great when China exerts a little more lebensraum in the South China Sea? Or the rest of Ukraine and maybe some of Belarus or bits of the Caucasus that no one really cares about anyway get subsumed into Russia^? All Putin has to do is send over some caviar and Trump will say it's #FakeNews.

^ Couldn't happen, right? Ask the Crimea.
   30. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:14 PM (#5575051)
Useless anecdata ... I drove through Alabama yesterday (I-85 from the GA line to Montgomery, I-65 south, then Hwy 59 / 180 in Baldwin County). I saw hundreds of Roy Moore yard signs (often in highway right of ways) and saw one for Doug Jones.


Whereas I mentioned a couple of days ago seeing a handful of the latter & zero of the former in my immediate neighborhood. That was before I saw several more for Jones headed toward downtown on Madison Avenue. But Democrats in general seem to poll halfway-respectably in Montgomery, as opposed to the hinterlands where you were.
   31. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:17 PM (#5575054)
Meh, I'm willing to give McConnell the benefit of the doubt -- though, I do think there's probably some calculus about losing a seat for ~3 years potentially being better than causing even more headaches in next year's mid-terms.

Mitch is acting like someone should if they believe the allegations. He could be dissembling, of course, in service of the long term.


I think there's a strong element of Moore's defenders making matters worse -- if Team Moore were to go with pure "lies! totally false!" it's a helluva lot easier to stick with the "if true..." than it is when Moore's allies take to the "so what/Joseph and Mary/only one of the alleged was illegal" defense.

   32. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:26 PM (#5575062)
than it is when Moore's allies take to the "so what/Joseph and Mary/only one of the alleged was illegal" defense.


Whether Jesus existed or not is debatable, but let's assume for now that he did. We have little to no evidence of the names of his parents, and we sure as #### have absolutely no idea of what their ages were.
   33. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:28 PM (#5575064)
Or the rest of Ukraine and maybe some of Belarus or bits of the Caucasus that no one really cares about anyway get subsumed into Russia^?


You have to love about how we're not supposed to care that Putin actually invaded countries (*) under Barack Obama's watch. No, what's really important isn't what he actually did then, but what he might do (**) given Trump's so-called "embrace" of him.

The archives contemporaneous with Crimea and E Ukraine here are hilarious. Modern lefties climbing all over themselves to apologize for Putin and to note how "Russian" those places really are. And how "1939" people like JE and I were for criticizing Russia.

The change now is so comical as to be an embarrassment. And all because Hillary Clinton lost an election. LOLOL. Complete clown take, bro.

(*) As well as threatening NATO countries which wound up with the non-deployment of military equipment in places like Poland and the Czech Republic.

(**) And has given no actual indication whatever that he will.
   34. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:31 PM (#5575069)
While it's probably true that every story about Jesus before he turned 30 is made up whole cloth, I see no reason to believe his parents' names were fabricated. Like, why? Ages could be fudged, sure, but a bit of an age difference then was probably typical. Parents weren't turning their daughters over to poor guys who hadn't spend a few years amassing a smidgeon of wealth to support their families. A decent null assumption is probably that Mary would've been 13-16, and Joseph 18-25.
   35. Blastin Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:32 PM (#5575070)

Whether Jesus existed or not is debatable, but let's assume for now that he did. We have little to no evidence of the names of his parents, and we sure as #### have absolutely no idea of what their ages were.


And, uh, if he's going on the Bible... the whole point is they didn't have sex. Everything about this argument makes no sense.
   36. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:32 PM (#5575071)

While it's probably true that every story about Jesus before he turned 30 is made up whole cloth, I see no reason to believe his parents' names were fabricated. Like, why?
Not certain, but I'd sure like to see the long form birth certificates.
   37. simon bedford Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:32 PM (#5575072)
Most of the people who "debate' whether Jesus existed are either crack pots or selling something ( usually a poorly researched book).
The other point remains, the anglicized names for his parents clearly are not correct and his various unnamed or named brothers and sisters are also mostly guess work, outside of James the just ( also anglicized cause its easier!).
   38. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:36 PM (#5575075)
And, uh, if he's going on the Bible... the whole point is they didn't have sex. Everything about this argument makes no sense.


Whenever inconsistancies in the Bible are point out, defenders bring out the "The Bible is not meant to be taken literally." argument. But now it's supposed to be a well researched historical archive.
   39. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:37 PM (#5575078)
While it's probably true that every story about Jesus before he turned 30 is made up whole cloth, I see no reason to believe his parents' names were fabricated. Like, why? Ages could be fudged, sure, but a bit of an age difference then was probably typical.

I always was disappointed we didn't get carpentry stories about Jesus. If we're going to credit him as a carpenter, I want a sermon from someone who got a pretty sweet shelving unit or some hardwood floors from Jesus.
   40. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:37 PM (#5575079)
And, uh, if he's going on the Bible... the whole point is they didn't have sex. Everything about this argument makes no sense.


Moore is only accussed to getting to what a 14 year old is liable to call 2nd base. If Mary and Joseph really weren't trying to make babies (HA!) I'd be pretty confident there was at least some dry-humping.
   41. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:38 PM (#5575080)
While it's probably true that every story about Jesus before he turned 30 is made up whole cloth,


Jesus, the Missing Years
   42. Srul Itza Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5575084)
Mitch is acting like someone should if they believe the allegations.


Mitch is making all the right noises to try to distance the Republicans from Moore. Then, if he wins the election, they can ignore him, while counting on him to always vote their way. They are not going to refuse to seat him.

Madeleine Albright called a 'Useful Idiot' — a 'useful fool'


I thought that was Lenin's coinage.

ETA: I see now that it is often ascribed to Lenin, but there is no proof he created it. It certainly, however, predates Albright.
   43. PepTech Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5575085)
You have to love about how we're not supposed to care that Putin actually invaded countries (*) under Barack Obama's watch.
It's pathetic that Obama did nothing then. What does that have to do with being concerned about the future?
And all because Hillary Clinton lost an election. LOLOL.
This is even less of a sequitur than WHATABOUTOBAMA. Trump isn't tweeting about his fabulous dinners because HRC lost.
   44. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:44 PM (#5575087)
And, uh, if he's going on the Bible... the whole point is they didn't have sex.


I thought that the fairy tale was that the conception was "immaculate". That doesn't mean that Joseph and Mary never knocked the boots. Just that they didn't around the time of her pregnancy. I guess the details are sparse.
   45. Nero Wolfe, Indeed Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5575090)
Whether Jesus existed or not is debatable, but let's assume for now that he did. We have little to no evidence of the names of his parents, and we sure as #### have absolutely no idea of what their ages were.


I'd be uncomfortable using the mores of 2000 years ago for situations like this now. Of course, conservatives seem to love that sort of thing. Let's apply 1770's gun ownership laws to the equipment available in 2017.
   46. PepTech Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5575093)
The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
By the way, his name was Joshua. Jesus is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Yeshua, which is Joshua. Christ is not a last name. It’s the Greek for messiah, a Hebrew word meaning anointed. I have no idea what the “H” in Jesus H. Christ stood for. It’s one of the things I should have asked him. Me? I am Levi who is called Biff. No middle initial. Joshua was my best friend.
----------------
ETA:
I thought that the fairy tale was that the conception was "immaculate". That doesn't mean that Joseph and Mary never knocked the boots.
This was mentioned in a recent thread, but one of her nicknames was "Ever-Virgin". Presumably Joseph was impressed enough by her pregnancy to steer clear. And Jesus's "brothers" was supposedly a mis-translation of extended family, like cousins and stuff. Due to the Editing Time Warp, I owe a coke to #47.
   47. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:49 PM (#5575097)

I thought that the fairy tale was that the conception was "immaculate". That doesn't mean that Joseph and Mary never knocked the boots.


Not if you are Catholic. Mary, ever-Virgin.
   48. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:49 PM (#5575098)
I’ve read that book several times. The author can occasionally put together a good book
   49. Nero Wolfe, Indeed Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:51 PM (#5575099)
I’ve read that book several times. The author can occasionally put together a good book


The plot tends to wander and is very inconsistent.
   50. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:52 PM (#5575100)
I thought that the fairy tale was that the conception was "immaculate". That doesn't mean that Joseph and Mary never knocked the boots. Just that they didn't around the time of her pregnancy. I guess the details are sparse.
You are mistaken; the immaculate conception refers to Mary's conception, not Jesus's. (But, of course, she was considered a virgin; I'm just saying that this isn't what the phrase "immaculate conception" refers to.)
   51. Srul Itza Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:55 PM (#5575105)
The plot tends to wander and is very inconsistent.


Well, he's no Rex Stout.
   52. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:58 PM (#5575109)
You are mistaken; the immaculate conception refers to Mary's conception,


Yes, the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being born without original sin (not sure how that worked, but whatever), thus making her the only suitable vessel to bear the Son of God.
   53. Nero Wolfe, Indeed Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5575110)
Well, he's no Rex Stout.


Nicely done, Sir.
   54. bunyon Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5575112)
If we're going to credit him as a carpenter, I want a sermon from someone who got a pretty sweet shelving unit or some hardwood floors from Jesus.

And shouldn't it still exist? Or are you suggesting that the Lord Jesus Christ couldn't make an infinitely durable bookshelf?
   55. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:00 PM (#5575115)
I️ viewed it as a travel book/origins book. Jesus traveling to the Far East is a bit of a stretch for the book but I️ can see why the author chose to do it.
   56. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:00 PM (#5575117)
Mitch is making all the right noises to try to distance the Republicans from Moore. Then, if he wins the election, they can ignore him, while counting on him to always vote their way. They are not going to refuse to seat him.

And by refusing to let him caucus with them, which is far more likely, they'll get the best of both worlds. Mitch McConnell's not running for re-election in Alabama, and unless Jones pulls an upset,** Alabama's not going to elect any Democratic Senators as retribution for McConnell's sins.

** Yesterday's Emerson** poll follows the post-revelation trend of shifting dramatically in Jones's favor, but even after a 12 point narrowing over the last 3 weeks it still show Moore as being 10 points ahead.

** B rating on 538, with a 1.3% GOP bias
   57. simon bedford Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:01 PM (#5575118)
"tekton" does not really translate into "carpenter" , more like builder, the modern Greek version means "mason". The translations of certain words into English leaves a ton to be desired for example "blessed are the poor" , in the original greek it actually says none of those words.
   58. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:05 PM (#5575123)
Trump on Putin:

"He said he didn't meddle. He said he didn't meddle. I asked him again. You can only ask so many times,"


In addition to his other flaws, Trump has no imagination:

"Did you meddle?"

"No"

"Did you not meddle?"

"yes"

"Dod you not not meddle?"

"No"

"Did you not not meddle?"

"yes"

"Did you not not not not not not not meddle?"

"Yes...I mean no!"

"Aha!"
   59. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5575124)
"tekton" does not really translate into "carpenter" , more like builder, the modern Greek version means "mason". The translations of certain words into English leaves a ton to be desired for example "blessed are the poor" , in the original greek it actually says none of those words.


"Blessed are the cheesemakers."
   60. Nero Wolfe, Indeed Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5575137)
"Blessed are the cheesemakers."


Obviously from the New Translated Wisconsin Version.
   61. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:18 PM (#5575142)
You are mistaken; the immaculate conception refers to Mary's conception, not Jesus's. (But, of course, she was considered a virgin; I'm just saying that this isn't what the phrase "immaculate conception" refers to.)


Yes, the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being born without original sin (not sure how that worked, but whatever), thus making her the only suitable vessel to bear the Son of God.


Sounds like the basis for Rosemary's Baby, kind of.


CNN is treating Trump's "I don't call Un 'short and fat'" tweet as if it isn't sarcasm, asking guests "is it possible that they may become friends at some point?" Merde alors.
   62. Chip Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5575144)
Judicial nominee Talley failed to disclose that he is married to the Chief of Staff for Trump’s White House counsel.
   63. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:21 PM (#5575147)
"blessed are the poor," in the original greek it actually says none of those words

"Makarioi hoi ptochoi to pneumati," "blessed are the poor in spirit": is there much controversy over the translations "blessed" or "poor" there? Or even "pneumatos" as "spirit" – the problem with the verse is how to interpret the phrase "poor in spirit," not the individual words. At least that was my small takeaway from college Greek :)
   64. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:22 PM (#5575151)
Μακάριοι οἱ πτωχοὶ τῷ πνεύματι

Ye gosh, it worked. Just cut-and-paste. I thought I would have to enter the unicode for every letter separately.
   65. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:37 PM (#5575174)
Moore is only accussed to getting to what a 14 year old is liable to call 2nd base.

Finally! Some baseball content in the OTP thread!
   66. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:39 PM (#5575178)
Cuomo is among my least favorite Democrats. Below is not the reason why, but it sure illustrates why - Cuomo Bypasses Small Donors

“Since the beginning of 2015, Mr. Cuomo has raised more than 99 percent of his campaign money from donations larger than $1,000 and nearly 99.9 percent of his funds from donors who gave at least $200, according to an analysis by The New York Times. At one point last year, Mr. Cuomo went six months without reporting a single individual donor who gave less than $200.”


I think sellout is an overused term, but it certainly applies to Mr. Cuomo.
   67. PreservedFish Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:43 PM (#5575182)
Moore is only accussed to getting to what a 14 year old is liable to call 2nd base.


Not these days. I think 2nd base is now simultaneous e-masturbating.
   68. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:45 PM (#5575185)
I always was disappointed we didn't get carpentry stories about Jesus. If we're going to credit him as a carpenter, I want a sermon from someone who got a pretty sweet shelving unit or some hardwood floors from Jesus.
I would like to see the Yelp reviews.

"Perfect job!" "This guy spends more time talking than working, but he sure gets the job done. Turned my old and busted shelf into a brand new one just by touching it! And when his robe brushed up against my water-damaged honey oak cabinet, the wood miraculously refinished into an updated espresso- he didn't even charge me extra. HIGHY RECOMMEND. Tip- offer him a glass of water."
   69. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5575188)
I would like to see the Yelp reviews. "Perfect job!" "This guy spends more time talking than working, but he sure gets the job done. Turned my old and busted shelf into a brand new one just by touching it! And when his robe brushed up against my water-damaged honey oak cabinet, the wood miraculously refinished into an updated espresso- he didn't even charge me extra. HIGHY RECOMMEND. Tip- offer him a glass of water."
"Guy didn't finish the job. Left and said he'd be back soon, but I'm still waiting."
   70. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5575189)
Byron York: Did dossier trigger the Trump-Russia probe?
by Byron York | Nov 12, 2017, 9:15 PM

The FBI opened a counterintelligence investigation into the Trump-Russia affair shortly after receiving the first installment of an anti-Trump dossier from a former British spy working for the Hillary Clinton campaign. What congressional investigators want to know is whether that was a coincidence or not.

The first report in the dossier compiled by former MI6 agent Christopher Steele was dated June 20, 2016.
Entrepreneur Elevator Pitch Ep8: Too Many Cooks in the Kitchen
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Steele told the left-leaning publication Mother Jones that he took the first part of his dossier to the FBI "near the start of July."

James Comey, when he was FBI director, told members of the House Intelligence Committee the Trump-Russia investigation began "in late July."

So the timeline is: The first dossier report was June 20, Steele approached the FBI near the start of July, and the FBI began its investigation in late July.

...

The challenge -- for Steele and for Fusion GPS, the opposition research firm that hired him with funding from the Clinton campaign -- was to get the dossier's charges out in public, where they might influence the presidential race.

As the election approached, the Clinton campaign, through Fusion GPS, directed Steele to give the dossier information to a few journalists. At the "end of September," and again in October, according to British court papers, Steele personally briefed reporters from the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, the New Yorker, and Yahoo.

The allegations in the dossier were basically impossible for journalists to verify. ...

The Clinton campaign tried to publicize the report, but the dossier news did not really catch on. So in late October, according to those British court papers, with election day fast approaching and the allegations still not out, Fusion, acting on behalf of the Clinton campaign, directed Steele to brief Mother Jones. David Corn's article, which stayed away from the most incendiary parts of the dossier, was published on October 31, 2016.

...

Now, with multiple investigations underway, some officials are trying to reconstruct the events of June through October 2016. Were the allegations in the dossier accurate in the first place? If they were, did involvement go to the highest levels of the Trump campaign? But if they weren't, was it a situation in which the Clinton campaign, through its hired foreign agent Steele, fed the FBI bad information for the purpose of having it leaked to the press in time to hurt Trump before the election?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-did-dossier-trigger-the-trump-russia-probe/article/2640470
   71. Lassus Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:49 PM (#5575192)
On to important issues!

I flew to Orlando today on business, asked the dude behind me if he minded if I put my seat back. He said no and thanked me for asking.

You may now return to your day.
   72. Lassus Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:53 PM (#5575197)
The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal

This is a very good book.
   73. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:54 PM (#5575200)
You're lying again. She told at least some of them specifically, years or decades ago, that it was Roy Moore.

I read the original story, and saw where a recent boyfriend says she fingered Moore.

I am about this woman's age, and if I think hard, I can remember some interesting stuff from that year... for one thing, some dude in a sports car who called my friend and me over to ask directions, which let us get an eyeful of him riding pantsless and wagging his beanpole. Which gave us botha start and a laugb 'til he rode back around and asked us how we liked his dick.

Not gonna get in some back and forth with an internet lawyer, but watch the slander, #######.
   74. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5575207)

Not gonna get in some back and forth with an internet lawyer, but watch the slander, #######.
Truth is an absolute defense.
   75. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5575208)
#### off, perros, you ####### dip ####.
   76. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5575209)
That was a nice community bipartisan smackdown

Which is why I deeply distrust what tbe community thinks, let alone an anonymous internet community. Consensus largely means weeding out inconvenient facts to get to a lowest common denominor mindset.

Much of the time thus group is as bad as any small town Baptist congregation with its narrow experience and even narrower moral judgements. You are largely of the same class background, and your judgments reflect that. I do respect more than a couple of individuals who never engage in group bullying and ad hom.

But whatever. Let your anonymous smacking sounds contine unabated.
   77. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:06 PM (#5575210)

So, there are people on all sides of the political spectrum with negative credibility; their weighing in on an issue is guaranteed to hurt their side. Like this.
   78. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:08 PM (#5575213)
Truth is an absolute defense.

Whatever you say, counselor.

#### off ###### you ####### dip ####.


You are a sad little clown of a man who will soon be pushing up daisies.

Nobody will care.
   79. PepTech Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5575214)
a recent boyfriend says she fingered Moore.
Nothing about that phrase makes sense.
   80. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5575216)
#66:
Cuomo is among my least favorite Democrats. Below is not the reason why, but it sure illustrates why - Cuomo Bypasses Small Donors


By all accounts, Andrew Cuomo makes Ted Cruz look like the owner of a charm school.
   81. spycake Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5575217)
Cuomo is among my least favorite Democrats. Below is not the reason why, but it sure illustrates why - Cuomo Bypasses Small Donors


To be fair, Cuomo hasn't actually ran in any election in that time (since the beginning of 2015). You wouldn't expect small donors to be contributing to him then.
   82. madvillain Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:10 PM (#5575218)
Perros you belong on /iamverysmart not here. Your ####### aphorisms are not clever and your stupid above the fray meandering does nothing to move any conversation along. If you don't give a #### what anybody here thinks let me be the person here to show you the ####### door.
   83. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:10 PM (#5575219)
So the timeline is: The first dossier report was June 20, Steele approached the FBI near the start of July, and the FBI began its investigation in late July.


Pretty sparse timeline -- other things that had already happened by "late July" or just a few weeks thereafter...

The GOP platform vis a vis Russia/Ukraine is modified with pro-Russian changes. GOP platform writers publicly insist it was at the behest of the Trump campaign. Trump campaign denies it. I presume we all now agree that the language changes WERE at the behest of the "Trump campaign", right?

Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort is fired/quits/whatever over allegations he's been playing stooge/bagman for Russians taking a bigger bite of Ukraine.

Clouds begin to swirl around Carter Page - who leaves the campaign a month later.... it's later revealed that a couple of Russian agents are already in prison for espionage attempts that involved years-earlier attempts at recruiting Page.

On top of Trump's bizarre bromance with Putin from the primaries -- well-known and well-denounced by his primary opponents.

It takes a really, really special kind of willfull obtuseness to pretend it's all just some fruit of an oppo research dossier.
   84. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:13 PM (#5575222)
If you don't give a #### what anybody here thinks let me be the person here to show you the ####### door.

Stick your dick in that door when you slam it and we have a deal.
   85. madvillain Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:16 PM (#5575223)
Stick your dick in that door when you slam it and we have a deal.


I'm just going to put you on ignore, my first one!


It takes a really, really special kind of willfull obtuseness to pretend it's all just some fruit of an oppo research dossier.


As David has pointed out numerous times a well: it's also a special kind of willful obtuseness to discount the dossier because (gasp!) it was oppo research. Given that Mueller has apparently verified much of the dossier independently, this line of thinking is especially obtuse.
   86. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:17 PM (#5575226)
group bullying


Dip ####, I think you're a dip #### regardless of what anyone else thinks. Sometimes consensus is valid.
   87. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5575230)
As David has pointed out numerous times as well: it's also a special kind of willful obtuseness to discount the dossier because (gasp!) it was oppo research. Given that Mueller has apparently verified much of the dossier independently, this line of thinking is especially obtuse.

It's only a matter of time before the Trumpsters' party line becomes "Mueller is working for the Russians!" And a third of the country will believe it.
   88. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5575231)
Much of the time thus group is as bad as any small town Baptist congregation

Right down to the excessive whiskey drinking.
   89. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:29 PM (#5575233)
Should you be skeptical of group-think? Sure.

Should you take the Devil's Advocate position on whether it's okay for 32 year old men to grope 14 year old girls? I wouldn't.
   90. Nero Wolfe, Indeed Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5575237)
It's only a matter of time before the Trumpsters' party line becomes "Mueller is working for the Russians!" And a third of the country will believe it.

It would have to be the North Koreans, rather than the Russians. Else Trump loses a lot of people who helped.........oh, wait.
   91. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5575238)
The Senate and the other Senators and the rest of the United States have no obligation to seat and acquiesce to a child molester in the Senate.

The Senate isn't going to refuse to seat a duly elected Senator over disputed allegations concerning a nearly 40-year old incident that the voters were fully aware of at the time of the election, although they might investigate the allegations. Unfortunately, this isn't the first such incident in Congressional history, the closest precedent is Illinois Democratic Congressman Mel Reynolds. The case against Reynolds was actually considerably stronger, involving sex with an underage campaign volunteer. He was indicted in August 1994, but called the charges racially motivated, continued campaigning, was re-elected, and seated in the House. The following August, he was convicted on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography, but did not resign his seat until October. He was sentenced to 5 years, and while in the slammer was also convicted on unrelated bank fraud charges, more than doubling his sentence. Luckily for Reynolds, his pal Bill Clinton commuted his sentence, one of several difficult-to-justify clemency actions that Clinton made as he left office. Reynolds was just recently convicted yet again, this time for tax fraud, and is facing another 4 years in prison.

The precedents appear to call for seating a Senator and then conducting an Ethics Committee investigation, not refusing to recognize the election results because of a disputed pre-election news report.
   92. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:32 PM (#5575239)
a recent boyfriend says she fingered Moore.

Nothing about that phrase makes sense.


I thought that too but with transgender being all the rage these days I've lost the ability to parse the language. He, she, they... formerly X now Y... etc.
   93. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5575241)
Few things are sadder than someone with a lifelong inferiority complex desperately spending his later years still chasing some fantastical validation, in increasingly ridiculous and belligerent forms.

It's one of the primary attractions of Trump with no small number of people.
   94. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5575243)
The Senate isn't going to refuse to seat a duly elected Senator
Adam Clayton Powell. They can't refuse to seat him. They can, however, expel him after he has been seated.



the closest precedent is Illinois Democratic Congressman Mel Reynolds. The case against Reynolds was actually considerably stronger, involving sex with an underage campaign volunteer.
Not really relevant except as trivia, but Reynolds was elected to fill Gus Savage's former seat. Gus Savage had also been accused of sexual misconduct -- attempted rape of a Peace Corps volunteer.
   95. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:40 PM (#5575244)
Clinton/the DNC paid Fusion GPS. Not "a foreign national."

I don't know why that is an important distinction. Does anyone really believe that the Clinton campaign weren't sophisticated consumers who knew exactly what they were buying from Mark Elias & Fusion GPS? It's true that they may have underestimated how effective the minimal deniability their use of middlemen would be in some quarters, but the idea that "no one knew" is absurd, especially when the Clinton campaign was doing what they could to make Russia-Russia-Russia an issue.
   96. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:43 PM (#5575248)
Drudge Report's top headline: TRUMP JUMPS TO 46% APPROVAL


Beyond the fact that Drudge used to run weekly headlines like "Obama Slumps to 51%," the site has an entirely explicable tic in which it only banners Rasmussen approval numbers.

The last 20 Trump approvals (non-Rasmussen division): 38, 40, 35, 38, 36, 38, 43, 36, 39, 38, 34, 38, 38, 41, 35, 42, 38, 38, 41, 35

The last 10 Rasmussen polls: 46, 46, 45, 45, 43, 48, 44, 47, 49, 46
   97. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5575249)
From snopes:
Claim: An ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate, then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate.

TRUE
   98. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:47 PM (#5575251)

Should you take the Devil's Advocate position on whether it's okay for 32 year old men to grope 14 year old girls? I wouldn't.

My position is you shouldn't run someone out of town on a rail based upon the mediated story of one person's memory from 38 years ago. Not that his alleged behavior is acceptable.

And no, I never beat my wife.
   99. GordonShumway Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:48 PM (#5575253)
By all accounts, Andrew Cuomo makes Ted Cruz look like the owner of a charm school.


As I mentioned in other posts, my wife teaches at an elite public school in an affluent area of New York. Cuomo visited her school over a year ago, to present an award to a teacher there who is very well known in the education industry. The event was attended by the kids, parents, teachers, and administrators.

This should have been an easy, can’t lose PR opportunity. The teachers, administrators, and parents who were attending the ceremony are mostly all affluent establishment Clinton supporting Democrats who would support Cuomo.
The kids are well dressed and well behaved, and the school was recently renovated. All you need to do if you’re Cuomo is smile, shake hands, thank the parents for raising their kids right, thank the teachers/administrators for the work they do teaching the kids, and encourage the kids to stay in school, work hard, and be nice to other people. Easy, right?

Well, Cuomo tried cracking a lot of jokes, trying to be witty and clever. All of them fell flat. He ended up annoying and offending the adults, confusing the kids, and just looked like a fool in front of everybody.

Perhaps Cuomo was just having an off-day. But I have a hard time though believing that he’ll hold up under the pressure of running for POTUS in 2020.
   100. GordonShumway Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:49 PM (#5575254)
Flipperoo.
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