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Monday, November 13, 2017

OTP 13 November 2017: Politics, race now touching every sport

Like legions of Giants fans who hate the Los Angeles Dodgers, Le rooted for the Houston Astros to beat them in the World Series. But he changed his mind, swallowed hard and began cheering for the Dodgers after Yuri Gurriel, a Cuban-born Astro, hit a home run against Japanese pitcher Yu Darvish then was caught on camera pulling the corners of his eyes with his fingers in a racist gesture.

“I couldn’t really be OK with them winning any longer,” Le said of the Astros.

With Gurriel’s gesture, yet another major sporting event in the United States came to be viewed through a prism of race, politics or both.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:05 AM | 1998 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, dodgers, politics, world series

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   201. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5575407)
Wikipedia says Sessions won his first election 53-46 (open seat: incumbent Senator Hefflin retired). But that was in 1996, so I don't know how much might have changed in Alabama in the last 21 years.


Clinton lost Alabama 50-43. While Clinton lost Alabama 62-34.
   202. PreservedFish Posted: November 13, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5575408)
When I went to college 15 years ago 99% of students had been around marijuana at some point and probably 75% had used it at least once. What was that like in the 70s? 80s?
   203. zack Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:00 PM (#5575410)
The nice thing about legalization is that, for once on a major divisive topic, we've actually tried it and we can see what the results are.
   204. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:01 PM (#5575411)
Yeah, 2014 was an unopposed election. Why? Why bother running as a (D) when you're going to get beat 2:1?


Relevance? I swear to God, you're becoming as annoying as sugar bear.

If there is a concerted write in effort, and if the write in gets more than 25% of the vote, I'll give $100 to the charity of your choice. As an added bonus, if the write in gets more than 25% and Jones does not win, I'll give another $100.

In the 2014 election that you seem so proud of, the D write in got less than 3%. As other elections showed, D support in AL is at least 12X that. Write ins simply do not get a lot of support. Ever.
   205. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:01 PM (#5575412)
In Gone with the Wind, Scarlett O'Hara is sixteen when the men come a-court'n.
   206. OCF Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:02 PM (#5575413)
@ #202: I was a college student in the early 70's, and there was plenty of weed around; everyone would have known a number of users.
   207. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:03 PM (#5575415)
Nixon got 301 EVs, but Humphrey + Wallace handily beat Nixon TN, SC, and NC, states totalling 32 EVs, and states that Nixon got less than 40%. Nixon also lost to H+W by 10 points or more in FL, VA, and KY, states totalling another 35 EVs.

Every indication was that Nixon would have won those states by larger margins without Wallace on the ballot.
   208. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5575416)
What was that like in the 70s?

Probably 99% had been around marijuana and probably 99% had used it at least once. Your generation was really dropping the ball :-D

Hell, I haven't smoked dope since 1979 (when that is what we called it). Talk about a Decline.
   209. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5575417)
About 50% of the R voters in AL will vote for the name on the ballot with the big R no matter what the name is. Of the other half, a significant number of them will be Moore supporters come hell or high water, or will be pragmatic Republicans who will hold their nose and vote for Moore to keep the seat in R hands.
   210. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5575418)
In the 2014 election that you seem so proud of, the D write in got less than 3%. As other elections showed, D support in AL is at least 12X that. Write ins simply do not get a lot of support. Ever.

Murkowski ran for and won a full term in 2004. She ran for a second term in 2010. She lost the Republican Party nomination to Tea Party candidate Joe Miller. She then ran as a write-in candidate and defeated both Miller and Democrat Scott McAdams in the General Election,[1] making her the second U.S. Senator to be elected by write-in vote and the first since Strom Thurmond in 1954.[2] Although Senator Murkowski has won three full terms to the Senate, she has never won a majority of the vote, winning pluralities each time: 48.5% in 2004, 39.5% in 2010 and 44% in 2016.


Well, almost never.
   211. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5575419)
Every indication was that Nixon would have won those states by larger margins without Wallace on the ballot

That ain't a great indicator for the theory that segregationists didn't flock to the Republicans starting with Nixon. Though maybe that is not your theory, it might be DMN's or somebody else's. Apologies if so …
   212. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5575420)
If there is a concerted write in effort, and if the write in gets more than 25% of the vote, I'll give $100 to the charity of your choice. As an added bonus, if the write in gets more than 25% and Jones does not win, I'll give another $100.


I don't think this'll happen, because I don't think the Alabama (R)s care if Moore's been molesting the kiddies. The Republicans have an enormous advantage in Alabama. They don't need to be seriously concerned about vote splitting. That's just an obviously pathetic fig leaf to cover up that they don't care about a little kiddie-diddling.
   213. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:08 PM (#5575422)
In Gone with the Wind, Scarlett O'Hara is sixteen when the men come a-court'n.


Which turned out great for just about everybody, it should be noted.
   214. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5575423)
The nice thing about legalization is that, for once on a major divisive topic, we've actually tried it and we can see what the results are.

The laboratories of democracy!!
   215. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:12 PM (#5575424)
That's just an obviously pathetic fig leaf to cover up that they don't care about a little kiddie-diddling.


While that's a fair cop to tar them with, I don't think it's accurate. I think they just care more about the seat staying R at any cost. And if Moore wins and gets expelled, then they have aother crack at the whole "lets try to elect a non-kiddie didler R" thing.
   216. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:15 PM (#5575425)
I think they just care more about the seat staying R at any cost.


Which would be a reasonable position to take in a seat that leaned (R), but not in Alabama, where the electoral danger in supporting a write-in vote is negligible. And, if the polling is any indication, may well be less than sticking with Moore.
   217. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:15 PM (#5575426)
Non-sequitur: this was mentioned somewhere upthread today, but Juliet, in Shakespeare's play, "hath not seen the change of fourteen years" – it is eleven years since she was weaned; she's definitely thirteen. Romeo's age is never given. He is old enough to go around the streets bearing arms and killing people, which sounds more like 18 than 13 or 14 to me, at least in 16th-century Verona as opposed to 21st-century Alabama, but who really knows.
   218. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5575427)
Which would be a reasonable position to take in a seat that leaned (R), but not in Alabama, where the electoral danger in supporting a write-in vote is negligible. And, if the polling is any indication, may well be less than sticking with Moore.


it may have been negligible in the recent past, but it is not now. Polls show the race as close, and it may get closer as more shoes drop (allegations and condemnations from party leaders). Any non-negligible support for a write in all but assures a Jones victory. What happened in 2014 and 2016 is not relevant now.
   219. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5575428)
This latest accuser would have more credibility if she wasn't sitting next to Gloria Allred.

* * * * *

Oh Alabama
The devil fools
With the best laid plan

Love,

Roy
   220. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:21 PM (#5575429)
“Denying Ballot Access: This Committee reserves the right to deny ballot access to a candidate for public office if in a prior election that person was a Republican office holder and either publicly participated in the primary election of another political party or publicly supported a nominee of another political party. The provisions of this Rule shall apply for a period of six years after such person so participated. (This rule does not include all of the reasons for denying ballot access.)
This appears to come from the Bylaws of the Alabama Republican Party (Last Amended on August 26, 2017).

I went looking for the rest of the quote- what are the other reasons? But that's it. The pdf only has the one paragraph, with no other ballot denial reasons published. Apparently the other reasons for denying ballot access are known only to Mr Lathan.

But given the context of Mr Lathan's quote, I guess "groping 14 year old girls" is not a reason for denying ballot access. Looking good, GOP.
   221. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:37 PM (#5575433)
This latest accuser would have more credibility if she wasn't sitting next to Gloria Allred.


And the latest non-denial denial would have more credibility if was actually a denial, rather than all about Allred.
   222. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:40 PM (#5575435)
When I went to college 15 years ago 99% of students had been around marijuana at some point and probably 75% had used it at least once. What was that like in the 70s? 80s?

I graduated in the 80s. A minority smoked, but I was around it at times. I never tried it at the time. I can honestly say I have never broke the laws of the US regarding marijuana. I did try it in Amsterdam. Not a huge fan.
   223. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:43 PM (#5575436)
Hell, I haven't smoked dope since 1979 (when that is what we called it). Talk about a Decline.


I last lit up on the roof of the Peabody Hotel in downtown Memphis before friends & I headed over to The Last Place on Earth to see Guided by Voices. Google tells me that would've been early fall of 1999.

#SoHipIHateMyself

   224. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:44 PM (#5575438)
it may have been negligible in the recent past, but it is not now. Polls show the race as close, and it may get closer as more shoes drop (allegations and condemnations from party leaders). Any non-negligible support for a write in all but assures a Jones victory. What happened in 2014 and 2016 is not relevant now.


This is nuts - 2016 and 2014 are the distant past? No, something like ~10% of the Alabama electorate are Republican voters who're, under the circumstances, feeling compelled to support the Democrat. The political landscape of Alabama is not fundamentally different from last year.
   225. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 05:46 PM (#5575439)
This is nuts - 2016 and 2014 are the distant past?


No, that is literally the opposite I am saying. 2014 and 2016 are the recent past.
   226. Srul Itza Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:02 PM (#5575441)
Probably 99% had been around marijuana and probably 99% had used it at least once


A bit overstated for the 70's college crowd.

I was at MIT, 73-77, Law School, 77-80.

It was very widely known, but not as widely used.

When I was at MIT, we would celebrate the anniversary of J. Edgar's death with a massive pot party on the Great Lawn, the major courtyard there. The Anniversary was actually a date randomly chosen in May for the event, the first really good day. At least twice, I chose it by putting an advertisement/notice in what was then the "alternative" Student Newspaper. We got a good turn out, no trouble from cops or administration, but far from a 99% turnout, to say the least. Still, everyone knew about.
   227. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:19 PM (#5575443)
The company operating the RT website and television channel has filed paperwork registering with the Justice Department as a foreign agent — a step it had said it would be forced to take to keep operating in the United States.
...
RT disputes the accusation that it is an agent of the Russian government, saying it offers alternatives to mainstream news coverage.

U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded that the network and website push relentlessly anti-American propaganda at the behest of the Russian government.
Linky.

A little fun from the memory hole...
   228. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:23 PM (#5575444)
A bit overstated for the 70's college crowd.

I was at MIT, 73-77, Law School, 77-80


Yeah, I tend to exaggerate. OTOH I was Michigan State, undergraduate, 1975-79, and marijuana was decriminalized in East Lansing (at least) during those years. The vast majority of people I knew at the time did smoke. But I did not really know a lot of conservative or strait-laced people, so this is one undergraduate's impression. I always tend to underestimate the percentage of the religious element, for instance, who are truly teetotal across the board. I was a campus Catholic and I assume that our pastor, Father Jake, in tie-dyed vestments and sandals, was a total stoner.
   229. Omineca Greg Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:25 PM (#5575445)
Non-sequitur: this was mentioned somewhere upthread today, but Juliet, in Shakespeare's play, "hath not seen the change of fourteen years" – it is eleven years since she was weaned; she's definitely thirteen


Won't you let me walk you home from school?
Won't you let me meet you at the pool?
Maybe Friday I can
Get tickets for the dance
And I'll take you, ooh ooh

Won't you tell your dad get off my back?
Tell him what we said 'bout Paint It Black
Rock and roll is here to stay
Come inside where it's okay
And I'll shake you, ooh ooh

Won't you tell me what you're thinking of?
Would you be an outlaw for my love?
If it's so, well let me know
If it's no, well I can go
I won't make you, ooh ooh

Bell/Chilton

I've always loved this song. Seems to capture that age perfectly. It's hard to write a love song about a 13 year-old that isn't creepy, but this one manages it. Of course, both people in the song are 13 years old, that's the key.
   230. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:25 PM (#5575446)
I last lit up on the roof of the Peabody Hotel in downtown Memphis


Were you trying to get the ducks high?

When I was at MIT, we would celebrate the anniversary of J. Edgar's death with a massive pot party on the Great Lawn


You're making me wistful. But come on, it's the Great (Killian) Court, not Lawn. The Lawn is my other alma mater.
   231. Traderdave Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:28 PM (#5575448)
I'd conservatively estimate that 200% of my undergrad classmates smoked. But maybe that's just the crowd I ran with...
   232. PreservedFish Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:29 PM (#5575449)
My mother went to college in Missouri in the late 60s and early 70s. She belonged to a sorority, and the stories she tells me are amazing because they are truly from another era. Things like all the girls standing in a circle and performing an esoteric WEEKLY ritual in order to announce if their beau had asked them to go steady, given them their pin, or proposed. It was still the 50s there during the 70s.

Marijuana was an extremely exotic thing that only a handful of committed bohemians knew about, as far as she remembers.
   233. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:39 PM (#5575454)
I started undergrad in Louisiana in the mid 80's. Drinking age was 18 and most parties ended up with most people getting drunk but weed or harder stuff was nowhere to be found. Most of the parties I went to were band parties and you figure if anyone would score some weed, it would be the musicians but nope. Personally, never tried it and the only times I can remember being offered it were from anonymous strangers at rock concerts. Pass.
   234. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:40 PM (#5575456)
Menendez jury deadlocks, judge orders them to keep trying to reach a verdict

Jurors' struggle to reach a unanimous decision could signal a potential mistrial down the line, a fitting coda for a trial with often conflicting, muddled testimony.

The defense team had maintained throughout the case that Menendez and Melgen were longtime friends with no corrupt intent to commit a federal crime, and after hours of testimony and hundreds of exhibits, the prosecutors never produced a smoking gun in the form of a document or phone call outlining an illicit agreement between the two men.

Instead, the case rested largely on circumstantial evidence. Emails and testimony revealed the senator's efforts to encourage State Department officials to favorably resolve a contract dispute Melgen had with the Dominican Republic over cargo scanning equipment, but also showed he was genuinely interested in port security issues. Similarly, witnesses told jurors that Menendez wanted officials in the Obama administration to change Medicare billing policies to help Melgen resolve a multimillion-dollar overbilling dispute, but also learned that he was concerned the drug companies were enjoying a windfall from the current policies.
   235. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:47 PM (#5575458)
The Atlantic just published an interesting piece by Julia Ioffe about communications between Donald Jr. and Wikileaks. One particularly eyebrow-raising quote:

When WikiLeaks first reached out to Trump Jr. about putintrump.org, for instance, Trump Jr. followed up on his promise to “ask around.” According to a source familiar with the congressional investigations into Russian interference with the 2016 campaign, who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, on the same day that Trump Jr. received the first message from WikiLeaks, he emailed other senior officials with the Trump campaign, including Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Brad Parscale, and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, telling them WikiLeaks had made contact. Kushner then forwarded the email to campaign communications staffer Hope Hicks. At no point during the 10-month correspondence does Trump Jr. rebuff WikiLeaks, which had published stolen documents and was already observed to be releasing information that benefited Russian interests.
   236. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:50 PM (#5575462)
There's not that much meat to the article, Vlad. The communications are almost all one-sided. They do help discredit Wikileaks (even more than it already is), but not the Trump campaign.
   237. Srul Itza Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:52 PM (#5575463)
Great (Killian) Court, not Lawn


D'oh. I even called it the Great Court in the last ad I posted.
   238. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:52 PM (#5575464)
weed or harder stuff was nowhere to be found. Most of the parties I went to were band parties and you figure if anyone would score some weed, it would be the musicians but nope. Personally, never tried it

Yes, context is a huge part of one's impressions. I remember visiting my son at college in Austin, awhile back now, and him showing me a bong to try to scandalize me. This is a bong, pops. And I'm like, oh please.

I don't think that either of my parents smoked, but my father (a theater director in the '70s) knew the smell, talked about weed, and was unsurprised that his actors were toking. I would sooner venture that my grandmother smoked reefer, in 1920s Chicago. She ran with some fast crowds. But others of my devout Catholic ancestors I'm sure never heard of the stuff.
   239. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:54 PM (#5575466)
Moore supposedly signed her high school yearbook.

In December. Who carries their yearbook around in December? Maybe the folks who are sharing marijuana stories from the same period can elaborate here.
   240. BDC Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:55 PM (#5575467)
Who carries their yearbook around in December? Maybe the folks who are sharing marijuana stories from the same period can elaborate here.

What's a yearbook, man.
   241. Morty Causa Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:55 PM (#5575469)
I started undergrad in Louisiana in the mid 80's. Drinking age was 18 and most parties ended up with most people getting drunk but weed or harder stuff was nowhere to be found. Most of the parties I went to were band parties and you figure if anyone would score some weed, it would be the musicians but nope. Personally, never tried it and the only times I can remember being offered it were from anonymous strangers at rock concerts. Pass.

I find that hard to believe (not that I'm calling you a liar or delusional). I'm from Louisiana, have lived all my life in So. La., and when I was a freshman at USL in '66-'67, I knew of no one who smoked grass. I dropped out at the end of the Spring '69 semester, and, still, I knew of no one who did. When I went back in the Fall of '71, everyone was doing it. It was that cataclysmic. Mid-80's? Where was this in La.?
   242. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:56 PM (#5575470)
Mid-80's? Where was this in La.?

LA Tech

I'm from Louisiana, have lived all my life in So. La.

Me too (Lake Charles), well, until I moved to Dallas in 1989. To this day, I've never seen anyone I know smoke pot or use any other illegal drugs.
   243. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:56 PM (#5575471)
There's not that much meat to the article, Vlad.


Seems at least reasonably meaty to me. You've got Bannon, Conway, Parscale, Kushner, and Hicks having undeclared knowledge of campaign contact with a known Russian cutout, as well as Donald Sr. tweeting about the release of a new batch of Clinton e-mails ("“Very little pick-up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest! Rigged system!”) fifteen minutes after the following exchange between Donald Jr. and Wikileaks:

“Strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us,” WikiLeaks went on, pointing Trump Jr. to the link wlsearch.tk, which it said would help Trump’s followers dig through the trove of stolen documents and find stories. “There’s many great stories the press are missing and we’re sure some of your follows [sic] will find it,” WikiLeaks went on. “Btw we just released Podesta Emails Part 4.
   244. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 06:59 PM (#5575473)
Prove to me every campaign doesn't secretly collaborate to release stolen messages with Wikileaks.
   245. zack Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:02 PM (#5575474)
I was in high school in the late 90's and I smoked pot before I ever drank alcohol because it was much easier to get. I haven't since I was 16, though.
   246. Traderdave Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:03 PM (#5575475)
To this day, I've never seen anyone I know smoke pot or use any other illegal drugs.


Walk down the street in the Bay Area and you're more likely to smell marijuana than tobacco smoke. No exaggeration.
   247. madvillain Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:05 PM (#5575476)
Walk down the street in the Bay Area and you're more likely to smell marijuana than tobacco smoke. No exaggeration.


same here.
   248. Morty Causa Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:05 PM (#5575478)
Me too (Lake Charles), well, until I moved to Dallas in 1989. To this day, I've never seen anyone I know smoke pot.

Well, I never knew there was that much difference between Lake Charles and Lafayette. (Now, LA Tech I know nothing of.) But, the drinking, that's something that's second nature in La. My father sent me to the corner store (I'm from Eunice) to get him a six-pack when I was like 12 or 13. The grocer asked me if that was for my dad. I said it sure was, he rang the purchase up, and that was the last time I ever was "carded" growing up.
   249. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:07 PM (#5575479)
I was in high school in the late 90's and I smoked pot before I ever drank alcohol because it was much easier to get. I haven't since I was 16, though.

That's the way it was in Ann Arbor in the late 1980s. Some of the weed was not good though, so I am told.

   250. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:09 PM (#5575482)
This is Andy Cuomo you're talking about. The next time he cracks a real smile will be his first.

True, but since he's only 59, Trump beats him on that score for career value.

It's not like Trump doesn't try to smile. It's just that his face is only capable of Lovecraftian expressions of unspeakable horror.
   251. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:10 PM (#5575483)
Seems at least reasonably meaty to me. You've got Bannon, Conway, Parscale, Kushner, and Hicks having undeclared knowledge of campaign contact with a known Russian cutout, as well as Donald Sr. tweeting about the release of a new batch of Clinton e-mails ("“Very little pick-up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest! Rigged system!”) fifteen minutes after the following exchange between Donald Jr. and Wikileaks:

Strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us,” WikiLeaks went on, pointing Trump Jr. to the link wlsearch.tk, which it said would help Trump’s followers dig through the trove of stolen documents and find stories. “There’s many great stories the press are missing and we’re sure some of your follows [sic] will find it,” WikiLeaks went on. “Btw we just released Podesta Emails Part 4.


And 2 days later Trump tweeted the link. But perhaps he was morally obligated to.
   252. Lassus Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:11 PM (#5575484)
I was in college in the late 80s and I remember conversations with people who were concerned when they left for Xmas break because they'd been stoned since Thanksgiving. After I graduated we lived in Hell's Kitchen and it was more work to get cigarettes than pot. I've never smoked, although I've been told by many many many people I should.


In other news, and evoking McCoy, we put our house on the market because we found a house we liked well enough to put in an offer, conditional on the sale of ours. My first experience at this late adult date with either. Anyhow, the point of the story, attempting not to be too gauche, is that we made an offer this morning that was 92% of their full ask on a house, and today the counter was at 99.5% full ask, a basic "fuck you". I mean, we went in knowing the circumstances meant we easily might never step foot in that house again, don't get attached (has almost all the positives for us); but it's a bit of an irritation when the first time you try people are just going to be straight dicks.

   253. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:11 PM (#5575485)

And the latest non-denial denial would have more credibility if was actually a denial, rather than all about Allred.

Assume Moore is innocent. How could he defend himself from such allegations in the press?

A lot of it depends upon political capital. Ted Kennedy survived Chappaquiddick on the family name, Bill Clinton on his incumbency and charisma. And they were guilty. Somebody like John Kerry was sunk by swiftboating, John McCain by a rumor campaign in 2000.

Again, it's politics. The truth is largely beside the point. You have to win what amounts to a propaganda battle. Look at what's happened in these Hollywood scandals. You can apologize, but only at the cost of career ruin.

Say it's all true, like with Bill Clinton. You deny to tbe cows come home and blame the VRWC. Doesn't mean they weren't out to get you.

You fight if you want to survive. Give ground and you're dead meat, guilty or not.

I'll see them all in hell. Me and Teddy.
   254. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:12 PM (#5575487)
Assume Moore is innocent. How could he defend himself from such allegations in the press?


How about starting with not admitting to dating HS girls when he was an adult?
   255. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:12 PM (#5575488)
This story is almost exclusively anonymous sources, but it's something else:
Gadsden’s current law-enforcement community could not confirm the existence of a mall ban on Moore. But two officers I spoke to this weekend, both of whom asked to remain unnamed, told me that they have long heard stories about Moore and the mall. “The general knowledge at the time when I moved here was that this guy is a lawyer cruising the mall for high-school dates,” one of the officers said. The legal age of consent in Alabama is sixteen, so it would not be illegal there for a man in his early thirties to date a girl who was, say, a senior in high school. But these officers, along with the other people I spoke to, said that Moore’s presence at the mall was regarded as a problem. “I was told by a girl who worked at the mall that he’d been run off from there, from a number of stores. Maybe not legally banned, but run off,” one officer told me. He also said, “I heard from one girl who had to tell the manager of a store at the mall to get Moore to leave her alone.”

This really does not speak well of Alabama's press.
   256. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:14 PM (#5575489)
a basic \"#### you".

Is that the market? My dad never budges on these things, from either side.
   257. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:23 PM (#5575491)
#405:
In Gone with the Wind, Scarlett O'Hara is sixteen when the men come a-court'n.


Great, great point, very pertinent. And don't forget, Eve wasn't even 2 seconds old when she strutted her stuff for a 23-ribbed Adam.
   258. Traderdave Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:28 PM (#5575493)
Take heart, Lassus, it could be worse.

In the Bay Area, people post a price they have no intention of selling at. It's considered a guideline as to where to start the bidding war. Houses trading a couple hundred grand over the price on the sign out front is normal. IT's happened on my block in the last month.

When we first moved here we found a great house. I offered to pay the list and they said no. I was livid and actually talked to a lawyer who kindly informed me that this is A) not illegal and B) standard in these parts, and he didn't even bill me for the conversation. I've been here 17 years so I'm used to it by now but I still dislike it. When we sold our first house here I insisted on listing at a price we would accept. The agent thought I was naive but I wouldn't budge. Ended up getting a bid a few grand above that & accepeted it, but at least I felt ethically in the clear.
   259. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:28 PM (#5575494)
This story is almost exclusively anonymous sources

Plus The New Yorker. Which is now largely the flip side of The American Spectator....

Damn, read the first paragraph. Plus mall cops. Full of hearsay first to last. More pathetic than I could have imagined before reading it.

You help immunize a target printing horseshit like that.
   260. Tony S Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:30 PM (#5575495)
#255 -- so if that story is to be believed, Moore's behavior was well-known for a long time. And Alabamans still voted for him and gave him positions of power, even in primaries, where the alternative was another Republican.

I wish I could say I was shocked.
   261. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:30 PM (#5575496)
Ended up getting a bid a few grand above that & accepeted it, but at least I felt ethically in the clear.

Naive is a nice word.
   262. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:32 PM (#5575497)
I was in high school in the late 90's and I smoked pot before I ever drank alcohol because it was much easier to get. I haven't since I was 16, though.

Also high school in the late 90's. But in Germany, where the legal drinking age is 16. And everybody starts at 14*.


*(insert Moore joke here)
   263. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:33 PM (#5575498)
It's not like Trump doesn't try to smile. It's just that his face is only capable of Lovecraftian expressions of unspeakable horror.

Heh.
   264. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:35 PM (#5575499)
They do help discredit Wikileaks (even more than it already is), but not the Trump campaign.

You know, I think I'll take Assange as the next guy to get the Weinstein treatment.
   265. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:37 PM (#5575500)
Plus The New Yorker. Which is now largely the flip side of The American Spectator....


Apparently you have trouble reading. I'll type slower.

Seems at least reasonably meaty to me. You've got Bannon, Conway, Parscale, Kushner, and Hicks having undeclared knowledge of campaign contact with a known Russian cutout, as well as Donald Sr. tweeting about the release of a new batch of Clinton e-mails ("“Very little pick-up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest! Rigged system!”) fifteen minutes after the following exchange between Donald Jr. and Wikileaks:

“Strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us,” WikiLeaks went on, pointing Trump Jr. to the link wlsearch.tk, which it said would help Trump’s followers dig through the trove of stolen documents and find stories. “There’s many great stories the press are missing and we’re sure some of your follows [sic] will find it,” WikiLeaks went on. “Btw we just released Podesta Emails Part 4.



2 days later Trump tweeted the link. The NYT did not make that up.
   266. madvillain Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:41 PM (#5575502)
You know, I think I'll take Assange as the next guy to get the Weinstein treatment.


Sheet, little Putin Puppet Assange has been on blast for rape charges far before this latest news cycle.
   267. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:41 PM (#5575503)
Roy Moore has been married for 32 years. If you can find me allegatons and recollections less than three decades old, let's hear them.

I'm willing to believe the guy was a creep. To this day, he looks like a creep and acts like one, too. But I hate a politcal smear job. Always have. Publicly defended Clinton against impeachment in an op-ed.

Lindsay Graham still disgusts me.
   268. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:41 PM (#5575504)
The Atlantic just published an interesting piece by Julia Ioffe about communications between Donald Jr. and Wikileaks. One particularly eyebrow-raising quote:

When WikiLeaks first reached out to Trump Jr. about putintrump.org, for instance, Trump Jr. followed up on his promise to “ask around.” According to a source familiar with the congressional investigations into Russian interference with the 2016 campaign, who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, on the same day that Trump Jr. received the first message from WikiLeaks, he emailed other senior officials with the Trump campaign, including Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Brad Parscale, and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, telling them WikiLeaks had made contact. Kushner then forwarded the email to campaign communications staffer Hope Hicks. At no point during the 10-month correspondence does Trump Jr. rebuff WikiLeaks, which had published stolen documents and was already observed to be releasing information that benefited Russian interests.


Lol. This story is absolves Trump more than it implicates him. All of this reaching out from WikiLeaks produced almost no back and forth.

It smells like a setup, actually.
   269. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:42 PM (#5575505)
Tune into CNN right now and you will see a walking, talking example of one of Hillary's deplorables. An Alabama POS self identified as a Christian colalition member defending Moore and attacking the accusers. "I want the facts", while dismissing every fact presented. Burn in hell shitbag.
   270. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:44 PM (#5575506)
   271. madvillain Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:44 PM (#5575507)
I'm willing to believe the guy was a creep. To this day, he looks like a creep and acts like one, too. But I hate a politcal smear job. Always have. Publicly defended Clinton against impeachment in an op-ed.


it's not a smear job genius, it's women speaking out. The current climate has made them feel safe doing so. I don't blame them for waiting until now.
   272. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:45 PM (#5575511)
Lol. This story is absolves Trump more than it implicates him. All of this reaching out from WikiLeaks produced almost no back and forth.


Except for tweeting the link they asked him to.
   273. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:45 PM (#5575512)
Lol. This story is absolves Trump more than it implicates him. All of this reaching out from WikiLeaks produced almost no back and forth.

It smells like a setup, actually.


Can the liberal media PROVE Wikileaks wasn't working for a Crooked Hillary?
   274. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:46 PM (#5575513)
Perros do you ever get tired of playing the dip ####? If a 32 year old molested you when you were 14 you'd remember it vividly until your dying day. #### wit.
   275. Lassus Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:46 PM (#5575514)
Take heart, Lassus, it could be worse.

Oh sure, and thanks for the encouragement. I'm not such a rube, really, but we're in northern NY, Utica/Rome, and while of course houses might go for list they almost always sell under, sometimes quite a bit. C'est la vie.
   276. Tony S Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:47 PM (#5575515)
#269 -- The fundies always claimed that allowing gay people to marry would normalize pedophilia. Well, it seems like they were right!
   277. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:47 PM (#5575516)

Apparently you have trouble reading. I'll type slower.

After you predicted Clinton would still win FLA long after the writing was on the wall, how long did it take you to recover from the alcohol poisoning?

That piece was shite. I question not your literacy, but that people bother to read the links posted here at all. Twitter is so much quicker.
   278. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:49 PM (#5575517)
The fundies always claimed that allowing gay people to marry would normalize pedophilia. Well, it seems like they were right!

That's pretty funny.
   279. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:52 PM (#5575519)
It smells like a setup, actually.


The DJT, Jr. meeting invitation from the nutty Russian lawyer very much looks like a Fusion operation. Has been reported.
   280. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:53 PM (#5575521)
If a 32 year old molested you when you were 14 you'd remember it vividly until your dying day.

I do remember a few fleeting images, but I haven't tbought about it in a long time before today.

More vivid is the memory of the septurgenarian who grabbed my junk 15 years ago. Like it was yesterday. But that's because it's ridiculous. And it happened in a town whose slogan is Incest Is Best.
   281. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:56 PM (#5575523)
I didn't mean you as in you. I meant you as in normal people who aren't attention whores trying to score points making dumb generalizations on a message board.
   282. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2017 at 07:57 PM (#5575524)
Perros do you ever get tired of playing the dip ####?

Joe, do you ever get tired of engaging him? I guarantee he's much easier on the eyes when you have him on ignore.
   283. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:02 PM (#5575526)
Sheet, little Putin Puppet Assange has been on blast for rape charges far before this latest news cycle.

Yes, I'm guessing those two charges are just the beginning. The times have changed, and Ecuador may start to question their decision.
   284. Tony S Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:09 PM (#5575528)

Moore has lost Ted Cruz.

When you're too sleazy for Ted Cruz, it's probably time to pack it in.
   285. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:11 PM (#5575529)
That piece was shite. I question not your literacy, but that people bother to read the links posted here at all. Twitter is so much quicker.


I see. So which part are you denying happened? That Wikileaks asked DJTJr to ask his father to plug them in a tweet, or that Trump Sr. shortly after plugged them in a tweet? Denying that either happened is insane, but I'm curious where you go with this.
   286. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:13 PM (#5575531)
This really does not speak well of Alabama's press.
Or Strange's oppo research.

But, speaking of Alabama's press, check out this tweet. They didn't miss everything. (But Strange and the NRSC did.)
   287. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:13 PM (#5575532)
Andy I post from my phone at work so I don't have to log on to my work PC, but I don't like reading the forum on my phone. Too small. So there it is
   288. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:15 PM (#5575535)
Well, there's one vote that Moore hasn't lost ...


Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) said Monday that he will still back GOP candidate Roy Moore in the Alabama Senate special election because Moore will “vote right” in the Senate.

“There are major issues facing the United States of America, deficit and debt that can lead to insolvency and bankruptcy, funding for national security, border security, abortion, appointment of Supreme Court justices — Doug Jones will vote wrong on each of those issues, Roy Moore will vote right on each of those issues,” Brooks said in a statement Monday.

“That’s why I am voting for Roy Moore.”


The Hill
   289. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:15 PM (#5575536)
I was speaking to the mall cops reminiscing about glory days. I'll get back to you on wikileaks tomorrow. I don't doubt the Trump Assange connection at all.
   290. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5575537)
When we first moved here we found a great house. I offered to pay the list and they said no. I was livid and actually talked to a lawyer who kindly informed me that this is A) not illegal and B) standard in these parts, and he didn't even bill me for the conversation. I've been here 17 years so I'm used to it by now but I still dislike it. When we sold our first house here I insisted on listing at a price we would accept. The agent thought I was naive but I wouldn't budge. Ended up getting a bid a few grand above that & accepeted it, but at least I felt ethically in the clear.
I don't understand. What did you think would be illegal, or unethical, about it?

EDIT: I'm not being sarcastic or pretend naive; I literally don't understand what your complaint is. A house listing price is not a price tag at a store; it's a guideline as to what the homeowner is looking for so you know how to bid. Obviously listing a price that's far too low may turn out to be a bad business decision, but what's the problem you have with it?
   291. bob gee Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:20 PM (#5575541)
cuomo??? ugh. awful.

check out how cuomo did in the democratic primary a couple years ago outside the urban areas where he's got huge influence. he lost in those areas to someone who had no money, only grassroots support. he won overall 2/3 of the democratic support - but he probably should have had 85-90% of that vote.

and teachout's (real name, no joke!) main selling point was "i'm not cuomo, and we're not going common core".

if the republicans ran someone with partially liberal social positions and competent, they'd crush him. they'd get all the republicans in the state, and all the dems / indies who can't stand cuomo.


EDIT: cuomo established the woman's equality party...google why.
   292. Tony S Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:20 PM (#5575542)

That Alabama rep citing the "deficit and debt" among major issues facing America?

How's he voting on this tax bill?
   293. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:20 PM (#5575543)
Back to the marijuana sidebar. I went to a small Catholic college in the early 70s. Dope was pretty common, but the school was generally conservative and beer was by far the most popular drug (NYS drinking age was 19, there was a bar on campus, one floor of one of the dorms was a frat that basically got wasted every weekend). I'd guess only 20 or 25% were into non-legal drugs.

Last week my wife asked me if I'd want to smoke if/when pot is legalized and I said no. A few years back she had, after an abstinence of about 30 years, decided to get some weed. The next summer we finally got around to using it. And I found that it still made the muscles in my neck and upper back tense up in a really uncomfortable fashion. So whatever the rest of you do, I likely won't be re-enacting my misspent youth once the reefer is legally available.
   294. Satan Says Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:20 PM (#5575544)

Yes, I'm guessing those two charges are just the beginning. The times have changed, and Ecuador may start to question their decision.

This is the kind of thing that's bad, moral panic giving way to revenge across the board. Send in the drones!

I wonder if you actually read those Swedish accusations against Assange..
   295. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:22 PM (#5575546)
Smoking weed is for squares. I recommend the Magical Butter machine. It costs about 150. An ounce of weed yields 320 1 square inch brownies. It is not recommended that you eat much more than 1 brownie at a time.
   296. Tony S Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:22 PM (#5575547)
Cuomo is another Hillary, but without the charm. Given the Dems' tendency to make the worst possible decisions, I'm sure he'll be their 2020 presidential nominee.
   297. Traderdave Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:22 PM (#5575548)
I don't understand. What did you think would be illegal, or unethical, about it?


More than 2 decades as a bond trader, where failing to deal at a posted level will often result in regulatory fines or (worse) ostracism by the rest of the street has molded by opinion of what honest & fair dealing is.

And don't get me wrong, we're sharks & we swim in that tank every day fighting for the last nickel. But we're honest sharks.

   298. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:23 PM (#5575549)

Moore held a "press conference" (his term) where he took no questions and announced that he had no idea who this girl was, no idea what the restaurant that she worked at was... and failed to explain how his signature got in her yearbook.
   299. bob gee Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:24 PM (#5575552)
traderdave - that's the reason i don't trade OTC stocks - no obligation to honor your listed price / size.
   300. Traderdave Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:25 PM (#5575555)
Last week my wife asked me if I'd want to smoke if/when pot is legalized and I said no. A few years back she had, after an abstinence of about 30 years, decided to get some weed. The next summer we finally got around to using it. And I found that it still made the muscles in my neck and upper back tense up in a really uncomfortable fashion. So whatever the rest of you do, I likely won't be re-enacting my misspent youth once the reefer is legally available.


Tension and discomfort are common reactions to sativa strains. Paranoia too. Try indica strains, much more mellow.
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