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Monday, November 13, 2017

OTP 13 November 2017: Politics, race now touching every sport

Like legions of Giants fans who hate the Los Angeles Dodgers, Le rooted for the Houston Astros to beat them in the World Series. But he changed his mind, swallowed hard and began cheering for the Dodgers after Yuri Gurriel, a Cuban-born Astro, hit a home run against Japanese pitcher Yu Darvish then was caught on camera pulling the corners of his eyes with his fingers in a racist gesture.

“I couldn’t really be OK with them winning any longer,” Le said of the Astros.

With Gurriel’s gesture, yet another major sporting event in the United States came to be viewed through a prism of race, politics or both.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2017 at 08:05 AM | 1999 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, dodgers, politics, world series

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   801. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:23 PM (#5576372)
flop
   802. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:23 PM (#5576373)
After digesting Sessions and the responses, I think my favorite part is probably where this all landing: We were incompetent! and chaos, oh the chaos! And we didn't know what we were doing!
   803. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:26 PM (#5576374)
After digesting Sessions and the responses, I think my favorite part is probably where this all landing: We were incompetent! and chaos, oh the chaos! And we didn't know what we were doing!


The Uncle Leo defense all over again.
   804. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:30 PM (#5576375)
Louie ####### Gohmert, ladies and germs!


Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) has a reputation as one of the more colorful members of Congress. But he outdid himself Tuesday afternoon, putting together an essentially incoherent chart connecting various conspiracy theories about the Obama administration and holding it up during a congressional hearing with Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

...

It’s not actually clear what the lines connecting different things mean. It’s not clear why some of them are green and others are black and dotted.

It’s not clear why “Hillary Clinton Emails” and “Hillary Clinton Secret Server” are different things, or why they’re not connected. It’s not clear why the words “Obama” and “Mueller” are on there twice, or why the first mention isn’t connected to the second. It’s not clear why Bill and Hillary Clinton, who are right next to each other, are not connected by any sort of line (green, dotted, or otherwise).

A lot of things aren’t clear about the chart — other than that it’s hilarious. A member of Congress actually held this up while the attorney general was testifying!

...


Link

First link has the chart ... it's certainly prime GOHMERT though I'm disappointed in the lack of reference to the international socialist broccoli conspiracy ...
   805. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:34 PM (#5576378)
It’s not clear why some of them are green and others are black and dotted.


The dotted line is clearly the secret pasage from Lorreta Lynch to Eric Holder. Haven't you ever played Clue?
   806. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:36 PM (#5576380)
Might be a military coup in Zimbabwe:
The U.S. Embassy in Zimbabwe is urging Americans in the country to shelter in place amid mounting concerns of a military coup. In a message posted online Tuesday night, the embassy also instructed U.S. government personnel in Zimbabwe to remain in their residences and work from home on Wednesday.
. . .
Concerns grew on Tuesday after soldiers seized Zimbabwe's state broadcast ZBC in response to accusations by the ruling ZANU-PF party that the head of the military had committed treason. The move has increased speculation that a coup against 93-year-old President Robert Mugabe could be underway, according to Reuters.

Mugabe has been in power for 37 years. While he is respected by many in southern Africa, the president has also come under fire for what critics have described as his despotic rule and severe human rights abuses.

Interesting formulation in that last sentence. One would hope this leads to a more democratic regime, but a younger autocrat may be the result.
   807. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:41 PM (#5576382)
For years, my two favorite pieces of recent comedy were the Ambiguously Gay Duo TV Funhosue cartoons and the best skits of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.


I just found out that there was a Triumph the Insult Comic Dog TV show. And it was apparently kind of funny, too!
   808. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:45 PM (#5576384)
First link has the chart ... it's certainly prime GOHMERT!


It's one of those awesome "somebody got curious what this 'Visio' thing is" attempts.
   809. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:47 PM (#5576385)
I saw Seinfeld's live show called "I'm Telling You For the Last Time" which he did after the TV show went off the air and he wanted to "retire" his current set of material.
It had a lot of the jokes/stories on the show or previous appearances on talk shows (or from his book), but there was other stuff that was new (to me).
What made it great was his timing. He knew EXACTLY how long to leave a line hanging, his pacing during stories was perfect, and even things like hand gestures and head nods were on point.
It's a guy who has nearly perfected his craft. Even though I knew a lot of the jokes, it was still fantastic to see live because of his performance.

   810. madvillain Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:51 PM (#5576386)
First link has the chart ... it's certainly prime GOHMERT though I'm disappointed in the lack of reference to the international socialist broccoli conspiracy ...


Of ####### course: he'll be on Fox News tonight! Who needs RT when you have Fox.
   811. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:03 PM (#5576388)
Louie ####### Gohmert, ladies and germs!

Not bad, Louie, but you think Sean Hannity can't top you?

I assume Ray is taking notes.
   812. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:09 PM (#5576390)
#786:
Another day, and Sean Hannity waves bye-bye to advertisers Reddi Wip, Green Mountain Coffee, Volvo, Hebrew National, the Society for Human Resource Management, CA Technologies, the YMCA, and TripAdvisor.

Yes, but RWNJ Twitter is abuzz with the #fakenews that Keurig apologized to Hannity.



There are several other former Hannity sponsors who've backed out, but will only say they "continually review" their advertising allocations and strategies. No need to attract hashtags by making a public declaration about it.
   813. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:11 PM (#5576391)
Who needs RT when you have Fox

Is the typical Fox viewer on the phone with catheter support while Shep Smith speaks the truth? How does Ma Deplorable reconcile him with the rest of the network?
   814. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:15 PM (#5576392)
It’s not clear why the words “Obama” and “Mueller” are on there twice

They are the opposite of the Olson twin, duh. They both have a twin brother, but are pretending to only be one person. As compared to being one person who moves back and forward really quickly to make everyone believe there are 2 of her.
   815. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:26 PM (#5576395)
It’s not clear why the words “Obama” and “Mueller” are on there twice


Susan Rice gets two mentions, too.... though, she gets the yellow decision boxes - while both Obama and Mueller get the grey terminator horizontal ovals.
   816. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:30 PM (#5576396)
It appears that the jury in the Menendez trial is still deadlocked:
As jurors in the federal corruption trial of U.S. Sen. Robert Menendez left the courthouse Tuesday without reaching a verdict, attorneys for the Democratic lawmaker from New Jersey urged the judge to declare a mistrial if the panel continues to say it's deadlocked.
. . .
Evelyn Arroyo-Mautsby, a juror who was excused on Thursday to go on a pre-planned vacation, told reporters the jury was split on bribery charges and that she was the only one who felt Menendez was not guilty of making false statements by failing to report on his Senate disclosure forms gifts from Melgen, a wealthy Florida ophthalmologist.

Not a fan of excused jurors commenting on still ongoing deliberations, but if that is accurate about a 11-1 split, there may be at least a partial verdict on the lesser disclosure charges, with a retrial on the remaining counts a possibility for next year.
   817. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:35 PM (#5576398)
The bicycle lady who lost her job for flipping off Trump's motorcade has been given $80,000 and counting in online fundraising.

It's an obvious Fusion pizzeria slush fund laundering operation, and it will make a chilling new box (or three) in Louie Gohmert's next conspiragraph.
   818. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:44 PM (#5576401)
Somebody had better come up with an explanation of the role of the reverse vampires in all of this, or I'm not buying #### ...
   819. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:46 PM (#5576403)
It's an obvious Fusion pizzeria slush fund laundering operation, and it will make a chilling new box (or three) in Louie Gohmert's next conspiragraph.


That's the point where you look at the architecture and just say #### it, let's just toss it all up in the cloud and make it AWS's problem.
   820. Lassus Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:02 PM (#5576406)
Never cared for his show.
Never cared for his stand up.
And there are more than a few others here with the same opinion.


I was never that big a fan. I knew Carlos Jacott in college so did watch the ones with him in it more than a few times. For me it was less Seinfeld and more being over sitcoms period by then.
   821. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:50 PM (#5576423)
How are the Republicans going to spin the changes to the Senate tax bill? Tax cuts for individuals last seven years, tax cuts for corporations are permanent, and health care financing is about to get shredded. The attack ads write themselves here.
   822. Howie Menckel Posted: November 15, 2017 at 12:00 AM (#5576429)
What made it great was his timing. He knew EXACTLY how long to leave a line hanging, his pacing during stories was perfect, and even things like hand gestures and head nods were on point.

I've mentioned the classic "Taxi" scene with Christopher Lloyd at the driver's written exam and "SLOWER." he keeps doing it and it keeps getting funnier and he's asked how he knew when to stop and he just said "until it wouldn't be as funny anymore."

there is an 'ear' to that.
   823. tshipman Posted: November 15, 2017 at 12:13 AM (#5576433)
The bicycle lady who lost her job for flipping off Trump's motorcade has been given $80,000 and counting in online fundraising.


I actually kind of hate this trend. Some lady did something kind of stupid and because people identify with her, she gets money.

For $5, you can give a kid an anti-malaria net in the developing world. Should we get those kids to flip off President Trump so people will be excited about giving them money?
   824. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 15, 2017 at 12:42 AM (#5576435)
I actually kind of hate this trend. Some lady did something kind of stupid and because people identify with her, she gets money.

Oh, the copycats will be lining up to take your money. I'm afraid to look, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is already a "Will Moon The White House For $50K" campaign somewhere. Or maybe folks will adopt the tactic in lieu of that Screaming At The Sky thing?
   825. zenbitz Posted: November 15, 2017 at 12:44 AM (#5576436)

Classic Obscurogram.
   826. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 15, 2017 at 01:06 AM (#5576437)
Or maybe folks will adopt the tactic in lieu of that Screaming At The Sky thing?


That screaming turnout was pretty pathetic. All you can do is slowly shake your head at "epic fails" like the screaming. I suppose the isolation eventually gets to the fanatics.
   827. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 01:42 AM (#5576442)
Kentucky trying to shut down last abortion clinic in the state

But don't worry, Ray assures us that the battle for abortion rights is over and lefties should just shut up about it already.
If only liberals were concerned about overregulation of business in any context other than abortion.
   828. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 15, 2017 at 01:44 AM (#5576443)
Not content with what he's already got on his plate, Roy tonight:

They started to create new rights in 1965 and today we got a problem....
   829. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 01:49 AM (#5576444)

How are the Republicans going to spin the changes to the Senate tax bill?
Well, if they pass it within the last 3 weeks, they can go with, "Hey, at least we're not child molesters."
   830. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 02:16 AM (#5576446)
Roy Moore hired an attorney to write a demand letter demanding a retraction of the stories about him. One presumes that the real purpose of this letter is to allow him to tell the rubes that he's suing the media for reporting false stories about him. This letter:

1. Is not actually a lawsuit, which is why it's safe for Moore to send; if he actually filed a lawsuit, then the courts could impose sanctions;
2. Was written by an ethically-questionable graduate of a non-ABA-accredited law school;
3. Was purportedly written on behalf of Moore's fake charity. (Which presumably means that he is using the organization's funds to pay the lawyer); and
4. May be the worst-written letter in the history of the English language. It literally reads as if it were written by a Russian bot and then translated by Google Translate. It's on caliber with the typical Nigerian scam email. (Other possibility: written by one of Moore's 14-year old girlfriends.)



EDIT: This lawyer's bio is unbelievable; I'm not sure whether the grammar or content is worse.
   831. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 15, 2017 at 03:08 AM (#5576447)
#830:
2. Was written by an ethically-questionable graduate of a non-ABA-accredited law school


Prove it. Which lifetime appointment has Trump nominated him for?


Meanwhile, when he wasn't shaming Louie Gohmert with a prettier chart, former Roy Moore defender Sean Hannity laid down the law, giving the good Judge "24 hours" to convince the world he didn't sexually abuse teenaged girls, or else quit the race. Maybe Moore can ask ace reporter Bernie Bernstein for a few leads.

Thi$ $udden rever$al of $ean Hannity'$ previou$ly boi$terou$ $upport for Moore i$ a my$tery.
   832. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 15, 2017 at 06:43 AM (#5576448)
Roy Moore hired an attorney to write a demand letter demanding a retraction of the stories about him.

Naively I'd hope a former state chief justice could find a better lawyer than this guy. I kinda wonder how guys like this pass the bar.
   833. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 06:52 AM (#5576449)
If only liberals were concerned about overregulation of business in any context other than abortion.


I used to think Big Gummint regulations killed the cigarette vending machine industry but I saw one in a diner not too long ago. Good photo op for the kid,
   834. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 07:06 AM (#5576452)
Trump responds to latest shootings. Read the replies if you don't see the problem.
   835. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 08:00 AM (#5576455)
#830 - that's amazeballs
   836. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: November 15, 2017 at 08:28 AM (#5576457)
For $5, you can give a kid an anti-malaria net in the developing world.



$5 actually delivers two nets. Thanks for sending that link.
   837. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: November 15, 2017 at 08:34 AM (#5576458)
In case anyone thinks that the lawyer bio that was posted is typical for a PI guy in Alabama, here’s an example from the father of one of my exes. He’s an excellent PI lawyer and his bio is well-written and edited, as it should be. You’ll also note no shameless use of his church to market himself. Moore’s stooge is just an idiot.

http://gathingslaw.com/our-attorneys/lloyd-gathings/
   838. manchestermets Posted: November 15, 2017 at 08:41 AM (#5576459)
EDIT: This lawyer's bio is unbelievable; I'm not sure whether the grammar or content is worse.


I like the bit that says "The 2001 Miami team is the best college football team ever, and I... played against them!"

Hey! He recovered a fumble! In the 38-7 defeat. In which the Troy quarterbacks were sacked 5 times. Yeah, I'd maybe not be boasting so much about being part of that offensive line.
   839. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 15, 2017 at 08:56 AM (#5576462)
The bicycle lady who lost her job for flipping off Trump's motorcade has been given $80,000 and counting in online fundraising.

I actually kind of hate this trend. Some lady did something kind of stupid and because people identify with her, she gets money.

If her employer hadn't been so quick to fire her over the most trivial incident imaginable, she wouldn't be doing fundraisers.

For $5, you can give a kid an anti-malaria net in the developing world. Should we get those kids to flip off President Trump so people will be excited about giving them money?

That anti-malaria site is certainly worth supporting, but why is it an either/or thing?
   840. Morty Causa Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:04 AM (#5576464)
I can't be supporting people like that--either the woman on the bike or the kid who needs an anti-malaria net--when there are winos with smartphones outside the Circle K right here in my hometown who need sustenance.
   841. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:10 AM (#5576466)
when there are winos with smartphones outside the Circle K right here in my hometown who need sustenance.


I'll see your hobo-with-a-smartphone and raise you one ... woman-buying-lobster-with-foodstamps-and-feeding-it-to-her-dog!

(n.b. this smells the troll to me ...)
   842. BDC Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:11 AM (#5576467)
I'd maybe not be boasting so much about being part of that offensive line

The repeated concussions might explain the proofreading in the Moore letter, though.
   843. BrianBrianson Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:14 AM (#5576468)
It literally reads as if it were written by a Russian bot and then translated by Google Translate.


The RNC has cut him off, so I see no reason to believe this isn't literal what happened.
   844. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:14 AM (#5576469)
In other perverted news yesterday --

There are two sitting congressmen - at least - (and hey, it's bipartisan! Supposedly one Democrat and one Republican!) that may not be sitting for much longer.

Much as I get that the claims were made in confidence - unless you doubt their validity (which, I presume, wouldn't be the case if you're raising them in a congressional hearing) - come on... name them and they should face the music.

Further items elsewhere seemed to indicate one of the miscreants is from California, the other from Texas.

I'd note that one Democrat from Texas announced that he won't be seeking reelection just a couple days ago....
   845. BDC Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:14 AM (#5576470)
CoB, my son leaves Puerto Rico today. His unit spent about a month distributing food and water on the south side of the island, in Ponce and Salinas. I'm not sure they got to do any civil engineering, but they showed the flag and helped some people out. It seems to me that things are still at basic survival level in a lot of places – still no power in large areas – and the setbacks from the hurricane will take a very long time to overcome.
   846. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:17 AM (#5576471)
My favorite part of the bio is how proud he is of the two years he spent at West Point ... apparently as a football recruit that couldn't cut it academically?
   847. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:30 AM (#5576474)
I'd note that one Democrat from Texas announced that he won't be seeking reelection just a couple days ago....


Who is that? Ted Poe announced about a week ago, but he's a Republican.

You'd tend to expect the Democrat to be from the blue state and the Republican from the red one, but I guess there are always exceptions. Either way, whoever they are, the chamber will be improved by their absence.
   848. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:36 AM (#5576476)
I'd note that one Democrat from Texas announced that he won't be seeking reelection just a couple days ago....


Who is that? Ted Poe announced about a week ago, but he's a Republican.


Houston Rep Gene Green, who wants to spend more time with his off-brand regional wrestling ring announcing.

FTR - I'm just idly speculating... while it's a Dem "sink" district - the GOP rarely even runs a candidate - Green has faced stiff challenges in primaries. He's also 70.
   849. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:36 AM (#5576478)
My favorite part of the bio is how proud he is of the two years he spent at West Point ... apparently as a football recruit that couldn't cut it academically?
Picking my favorite part is like picking my favorite kid. There are just too many great ones.

My favorite part is that he states that he is admitted to a court that does not actually exist.

But my other favorite part is that he brags about having lost football games to good teams.

And my other favorite part, yes, is him bragging about having flunked out of West Point.

But then there's him bragging about having won a pizza party at West Point.

I can't tell which of these is most likely to make me want to hire him as my lawyer.


   850. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:38 AM (#5576479)


But the bio does at least prove that Garmon - or at least Garmon's web designer - wrote the comically awful demand letter.
   851. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:40 AM (#5576480)
I can't tell which of these is most likely to make me want to hire him as my lawyer.


Well, if you're Roy Moore, it's the part about the church he attends.
   852. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:43 AM (#5576482)
WHAT HAPPENED?!?

Bill Clinton should have resigned

What he did to Monica Lewinsky was wrong, and he should have paid the price.



So sorry I can't stay but, until I return, will someone here take it upon themselves to revive shipman, zonkie, and all of the other Clinton enablers?

EDIT: Of course, Bill no longer offers real value to the party so tossing his carcass overboard doesn't require all that much bravery.
   853. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5576484)
Upon asking via the "Chat with a lawyer" feature on their site if he would take my case against Miami for failing to cover the spread against Troy State, I was told to stop being a poopy butthole and that my internet provider would be receiving a crease and disease letter.
   854. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:48 AM (#5576486)
WHAT HAPPENED?!?


The rest of the 90s, the aughts, and more than half the 'teens.
   855. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:51 AM (#5576487)
Just for Clapper...

Biden leads Trump by 11 in a hypothetical 2020 matchup.
   856. BDC Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:58 AM (#5576490)
Badly formulated – I was trying to think of someone we lefties had to kick around till his death, and missed the obvious one, Dick Nixon. The Republicans will be able to keep harping on Bill Clinton till he dies, and well beyond. Turnabout is fair, as is whatabout :-D
   857. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5576491)
JE, where do we draw the line? Are rock stars allowed to have sex with groupies? Can quarterbacks still date cheerleaders? Can wealthy men ask models out?
   858. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5576492)
Biden leads Trump by 11 in a hypothetical 2020 matchup.
I've made my views clear about Biden but, no longer am I sure even he can survive the numerous creepy, touchy-feely videos that are out there.
   859. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:00 AM (#5576493)
JE, where do we draw the line? Are rock stars allowed to have sex with groupies? Can quarterbacks still date cheerleaders?
Date or date rape?
   860. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:00 AM (#5576494)
The mass shooting in CA is a little ahead of schedule. We still had at least another week, probably two in the "too soon to talk about gun control" zone to reset it already.


The NY Daily News has a story today regarding the Newtown lawsuit -- an utterly heroic battle, albeit one inexplicably rigged in favor of the gun loons -- in which it shows two of the ads for that absurd gun model. One has a picture of the weapon with the caption, "CONSIDER YOUR MAN CARD REISSUED." Another has a picture of the weapon with the caption, "“FORCES OF OPPOSITION, BOW DOWN. “YOU ARE SINGLE-HANDEDLY OUTNUMBERED,” and a sub-caption, labeling the gun “The ultimate military combat weapons system.”

This insanity is what is meant by the term "gun culture." And it's obviously insane public policy to permit this kind of weaponry to be marketed in this way to the nation's losers. Hopefully the courts in CT will concur.
   861. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:05 AM (#5576497)
WHAT HAPPENED?!?

The rest of the 90s, the aughts, and more than half the 'teens.


There's no statute of limitations on The Clenis. In another ten years maybe we can get a fair hearing on Selene Walters' claim that Ronald Reagan raped her when he was president of the Screen Actors Guild.
   862. Jay Z Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:07 AM (#5576498)
Trump responds to latest shootings. Read the replies if you don't see the problem.


It's deleted. What did it say?
   863. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:07 AM (#5576499)
But my favorites would be Steven Wright


HOF peak. Laughed so hard at one of his Carson shows, I woke up my parents. Kind of a more intellectual Seinfeldian "observational" style, without the "Hey, have you noticed that ...?" prefaces and directness.

Though he has dozens in this spirit, a representative example would be, "I bought some powdered water, but ... I don't know what to add."

   864. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:08 AM (#5576500)
Yeah, that matchup is about as hypothetical as it gets. Biden isn't running, and there's about a 10% chance that one or the other doesn't even live three more years.
   865. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:10 AM (#5576501)
Date or date rape?


Sorry, did Bill Clinton date rape Monica Lewinsky? Your link asserted that their relationship, even though she has always been at pains to assert that it was 100% consensual, was still inappropriate due to the power relationship. (And would have been even if Clinton were single). That is to say, it implies that there can be NEVER be a truly consensual relationship between a president and his intern, no matter what the participants think about it. So what level of power relationship can we condone?
   866. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:11 AM (#5576502)
It literally reads as if it were written by a Russian bot


Maybe the RUSSIANS!!! are interfering again.
   867. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:12 AM (#5576503)
It's deleted. What did it say?


Copy paste of his tweet after the Texas shootings. Didn't update the location.
   868. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5576504)
Sorry, did Bill Clinton date rape Monica Lewinsky? Your link asserted that their relationship, even though she has always been at pains to assert that it was 100% consensual, was still inappropriate due to the power relationship. (And would have been even if Clinton were single). That is to say, it implies that there can be NEVER be a truly consensual relationship between a president and his intern, no matter what the participants think about it. So what level of power relationship can we condone?
Does the name Juanita Broderick ring a bell? How about Paula Jones? Is Carville still smearing the latter as "trailer trash?"
   869. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:15 AM (#5576505)
JE, where do we draw the line? Are rock stars allowed to have sex with groupies?


Only Ted Nugent.
   870. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:15 AM (#5576506)
WHAT HAPPENED?!?


Two things: (1) Donald Trump became president and therefore the "progressive" must entirely shake up the culture; and (2) It's inherent in "progressivism" that things get better over time and therefore progressives will do and say and think anything to make that tenet appear to be true.

So sorry I can't stay but, until I return, will someone here take it upon themselves to revive shipman, zonkie, and all of the other Clinton enablers?


They had their chance 20 years ago, and they failed miserably. Their revisionism now is simply absurd, and their attribution of it to an "improved culture" is even more absurd.

There is no "do over" card, modern liberals. You had your chance and you failed. The failure wasn't the culture's; it was yours.

The list of people who did not fail isn't long, but it begins with Christopher Hitchens. I'm obviously a complete nobody, but my BBTF scribblings over the years place me squarely in his tradition as well.
   871. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:18 AM (#5576507)
FFS, Mr. President:
Do you think the three UCLA Basketball Players will say thank you President Trump? They were headed for 10 years in jail!
   872. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:18 AM (#5576508)
Does the name Juanita Broderick ring a bell? How about Paula Jones? Is Carville still smearing the latter as "trailer trash?"


Your link wasn't about any of this. I guess you just saw that it criticized Clinton and you got excited and posted it without actually reading it?
   873. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:21 AM (#5576511)
Your link wasn't about any of this. I guess you just saw that it criticized Clinton and you got excited and posted it without actually reading it?
As I noted, the substance of the piece is less important than the message it sends: Bill's expendable because he no longer makes money for his partners.
   874. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5576512)
Hillary Clinton attributed Lewinsky's entirely true allegations, as well as the allegations of perjury in connection, to a "vast right wing conspiracy." That, too, was not "the culture's" failing -- indeed, her paranoid remarks helped establish and advance a culture -- it was her failing.
   875. zack Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5576513)

Sorry, did Bill Clinton date rape Monica Lewinsky? Your link asserted that their relationship, even though she has always been at pains to assert that it was 100% consensual, was still inappropriate due to the power relationship. (And would have been even if Clinton were single). That is to say, it implies that there can be NEVER be a truly consensual relationship between a president and his intern, no matter what the participants think about it. So what level of power relationship can we condone?

The groupie and the cheerleader aren't working for the rock star or the quarterback. I think we can start with that?

And yes I know Lewinsky wasn't being paid.
   876. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:27 AM (#5576514)
And there's especially no "do over" card, modern liberals, if the card is that 22 year old women can't consent to relationships with 47 year old (*) men, because of some misguided notions of "power imbalances."

(*) Or whatever age Clinton was in 1997/98.
   877. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5576515)
The groupie and the cheerleader aren't working for the rock star or the quarterback. I think we can start with that?

And yes I know Lewinsky wasn't being paid.


Silly beyond words. Many solid relationships and even marriages begin with workplace romances. And those relationships and marriages have occurred even while the laws against sexual harassment in the workplace have been vigorously enforced.

Do you people actually know a thing about the real world? There isn't going to be some one-size-fits-all meme like "power imbalances" that is going to suffice to explain the vast multiplicity of human experience.
   878. zack Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5576517)
Uh huh, and how many of those were between the POTUS and an intern?

If you want to #### the intern one of you can quit or get reassigned first, it's not that hard.
   879. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5576518)
The groupie and the cheerleader aren't working for the rock star or the quarterback. I think we can start with that?


Sure, that's something to consider, but I'm still having trouble drawing a bright line between appropriate and inappropriate. Do you think that the Vox article would have been any different if Monica got transferred to another wing in the White House in order to pursue her relationship with Bill, having removed the direct boss/employee dynamic?
   880. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5576519)
Though he has dozens in this spirit, a representative example would be, "I bought some powdered water, but ... I don't know what to add."


There are so ####### many ...

If you take an Oriental person and spin him around several times, does he become disoriented?

How come abbreviated is such a long word?

Whose cruel idea was it for the word “lisp” to have an “s” in it?

Why is it, when a door is open it's ajar, but when a jar is open, it's not a door?

ETC ...

Man, Steven Wright should have been much bigger ...
   881. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5576520)
The NY Daily News has a story today regarding the Newtown lawsuit -- an utterly heroic battle, albeit one inexplicably rigged in favor of the gun loons
An utterly frivolous lawsuit, that will hopefully lead to sanctions against the plaintiffs. (As happened with the Aurora plaintiffs, who were led down the primrose path by anti-gun nuts.) It would be an example of the need for tort reform if it were successful, but it can't be successful and they don't have a good faith basis for bringing it, given the specific laws that actually exist explicitly forbidding such suits.

Even if one believes that these guns shouldn't be sold, which is just an ignorant position, the proper place for that argument is the legislature, not the courts. Once the legislature makes the decision that a product is allowed to be on the market, it isn't the place of 12 random people in Connecticut to overrule that.
   882. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5576521)
Sure, that's something to consider, but I'm still having trouble drawing a bright line between appropriate and inappropriate.


If a guy at work asks a woman at work out on a date, and she says yes, and neither are married and she's older than 18, it's entirely appropriate. If the relationship seeps into the workplace, into something like favoritism of the woman or the opposite for her competitors and peers, then it's inappropriate and even potentially grounds for termination. (Typically, if the two participants are in the same reporting chain, the workplace will rightly insist that situation be altered. But there's nothing remotely "inappropriate" about the male's approach.)

We have decades of experience with these laws and norms and mores, and they're really in no need of serious revision -- and are especially not in need of serious revisionism because leftists are having yet another of their ... moments.
   883. BDC Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5576522)
This discussion is inane. (So what else is new, I know :)

Bill Clinton was never in legal trouble for having sex with that woman, that I know of. His conduct was unethical and unprofessional, and I don't know of many liberals cheering him on for it. If he hadn't been a lame duck in 2000, I don't think he'd have had much traction for re-election.

Clinton got in legal trouble for perjuring himself about sex with Lewinsky, including impeachment, disbarment, and a fine. He wasn't removed from office, but he was hardly a very effective leader in those last two years.

IOW I don't even know what the whatabout here is all about. Here's one of the most famously be-scandaled politicians in history, and the whatabout is that Roy Moore should be elected to the Senate because … Bill Clinton existed? Because I can't get in a time machine and go back to 1998 and disavow him again?

There, I have fed the trolls for the morning :)
   884. zack Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5576524)
Do you think that the Vox article would have been any different if Monica got transferred to another wing in the White House in order to pursue her relationship with Bill, having removed the direct boss/employee dynamic?

I didn't read the whole thing, but probably not. But I also think the POTUS is not exactly your average supervisor's position and the standards for that job don't transfer to others.

As for SBB's inanity, every place I've ever worked had explicit restrictions on dating within the chain of command, and for good reason.
   885. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5576525)
Even if one believes that these guns shouldn't be sold, which is just an ignorant position,


Believing they should be sold is nuts; believing they should be marketed as per ads like the two I cited is antisocial and batshit insane.
   886. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5576526)
Yeah, that matchup is about as hypothetical as it gets. Biden isn't running, and there's about a 10% chance that one or the other doesn't even live three more years.


Oh, I agree -- it's just been a recent hobby horse of Clapper's... That said - Biden's supposed intellectual lightweightness and penchant for verbal gaffery really wouldn't matter in a matchup against Trump, would it? Hell, I suppose his alleged creepiness towards women wouldn't either.

Does the name Juanita Broderick ring a bell? How about Paula Jones? Is Carville still smearing the latter as "trailer trash?"


I reiterated my views on both a few pages back - but just to reiterate again.... I'd have a hard time convicting Clinton in a Broaddrick (dude, if you cared about her - rather than just her as a cudgel, you could at least spell her name right) criminal case - but I'd probably find in her favor in a civil case. IOW - I do think she's telling the truth, but obviously - the deposition is a problem.

As for Jones, let me doubly reiterate my previous gimme a break... and repeat again, David Brock didn't suddenly become a wholly untrustworthy attention whore only when he changed sides. Add to that - her own legal team ditching her because they couldn't in good conscience continue to represent her on top of the fact that she's made an entire career out of being a professional Clinton accuser gainfully employed by various Clinton hunters... and you really ought to be embarrassed for bringing her up.
   887. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5576527)
As for SBB's inanity, every place I've ever worked had explicit restrictions on dating within the chain of command, and for good reason.


I addressed that.

There's no "restriction" on the approach, only the execution.
   888. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5576528)
BDC, the claim in Vox is that Republicans and other tut-tutters pursued the incorrect course of action vs Clinton. They made it a legal thing regarding the perjury or a moral thing regarding infidelity. But the REAL problem is that it was a Weinstein act: he was abusing his power relationship for sexual favors, which makes him a unemployable scumbag. (That's Vox's argument, not mine, and I don't totally agree with it)

JE's point in linking it is just to show that liberals are finally happy to throw Clinton under the bus, after decades of hypocrisy or such, because he's become irrelevant.
   889. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5576530)

Hillary Clinton attributed Lewinsky's entirely true allegations, as well as the allegations of perjury in connection, to a "vast right wing conspiracy."
That is not quite correct. Lewinsky didn't make any allegations. Other people made allegations about Lewinsky. (Or, to be precise, about Clinton's affair with Lewinsky.) It was those other people that Hillary was describing as part off a vrwc.
   890. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5576531)
IOW I don't even know what the whatabout here is all about. Here's one of the most famously be-scandaled politicians in history, and the whatabout is that Roy Moore should be elected to the Senate because … Bill Clinton existed?


No, this has nothing to do with Roy Moore.
   891. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5576532)
Lewinsky didn't make any allegations. Other people made allegations about Lewinsky


No, other people repeated what Lewinsky had told them about the matter, thus channeling her allegations. (Though I guess "allegations" is a bit imprecise; "statements" is probably a better term.)

And like Juanita Brodderick, people got to Lewinsky and got her to phony up an affidavit saying nothing had happened.
   892. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:47 AM (#5576533)
There, I have fed the trolls for the morning :)
And yet, every Democrat politico/advocate knew about the rape charge less than a year after the impeachment and trial and for nearly 30 years not a single one took seriously Broderick's accusations.
   893. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5576534)
Roy Moore hired an attorney to write a demand letter demanding a retraction of the stories about him. One presumes that the real purpose of this letter is to allow him to tell the rubes that he's suing the media for reporting false stories about him. This letter:

1. Is not actually a lawsuit, which is why it's safe for Moore to send; if he actually filed a lawsuit, then the courts could impose sanctions;
2. Was written by an ethically-questionable graduate of a non-ABA-accredited law school;
3. Was purportedly written on behalf of Moore's fake charity. (Which presumably means that he is using the organization's funds to pay the lawyer); and
4. May be the worst-written letter in the history of the English language. It literally reads as if it were written by a Russian bot and then translated by Google Translate. It's on caliber with the typical Nigerian scam email. (Other possibility: written by one of Moore's 14-year old girlfriends.)


Moore is scum etc etc, but just to comment on a side point: Re #2 above, don't you eschew (*) the concept of accreditation? So that shouldn't matter here -- although I suppose your point is that he couldn't get a Real Lawyer (one concerned about his career/reputation) to write the letter for him.

(*) EDIT: Er, I guess I don't do English very well. Eschew is not the right word... Scoff at?
   894. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5576536)
But the REAL problem is that it was a Weinstein act: he was abusing his power relationship for sexual favors,


And that's silly for a number of reasons, first and foremost that a bunch of women didn't consent to anything regarding Weinstein and second, that it denies Monica Lewinsky's agency and full capacity.
   895. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5576537)
Jim Geraghty:
It’s fair to ask fair to ask whether Bill Clinton’s experience left many powerful and abusive men convinced that they could escape serious consequence.
   896. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5576538)

Believing they should be sold is nuts; believing they should be marketed as per ads like the two I cited is antisocial and batshit insane.
Even if one hates the first amendment, the marketing is a complete red herring in the context of the lawsuit. There is no evidence that Lanza ever saw any of this marketing, let alone that it affected him in any way. (Lanza certainly wasn't the one who bought the firearms.) There is no basis for concluding that any fewer people would've been killed if Remington's advertising was, in bland 10-point black-and-white type, "Here is a firearm we sell. You can hunt with it."
   897. PepTech Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:51 AM (#5576539)
There are so ####### many ...
Weird how Steven Wright stays with you for years and years.

"Most people are afraid of heights. I'm afraid of widths."
"I got a new dog and named him Stay. It's fun to call him - 'Come here, Stay. Come here, Stay.' Now he just ignores me and keeps on typing."
"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?"
   898. PreservedFish Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:51 AM (#5576540)
And that's silly for a number of reasons, first and foremost that a bunch of women didn't consent to anything regarding Weinstein and second, that it denies Monica Lewinsky's agency and full capacity.


I agree with you.
   899. manchestermets Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5576541)
I'm still having trouble drawing a bright line between appropriate and inappropriate.


If a Republican does it, it's appropriate. If a Democrat does it, it's inappropriate. Have you still not learned that?
   900. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:54 AM (#5576542)
And there's especially no "do over" card, modern liberals, if the card is that 22 year old women can't consent to relationships with 47 year old (*) men, because of some misguided notions of "power imbalances."


Nobody has ever said a 22 woman cannot consent to a relationship with a 47 yo man.

The point is that a 47 year-old man who is the boss of a 22 yo woman - especially one married and obviously with no intention of getting a divorce - ought to have the morality, even if she's the pursuer, to tell the 22 yo woman that you're flattered, but she would be far better served seeking out actual companionship from someone that might potentially be in it for more than just a roll in the cigar humidor.

If she responds that such a roll is all she wants - then were I a 47 yo married man, I'd still say "sorry, I'm not your guy" and wish her best of luck finding that.

If I were a 47 yo unmarried man - and wasn't her boss - perhaps I might be game (sans the humidor)... I've got no beef with getting my pure sexual animal on with a willing partner who is just looking for the same fleeting thing.

There's a line between immoral and illegal (or impeachable or fireable)....

Either you treat other human beings like a sack of meat or you don't. That's my line between moral and immoral.
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