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Monday, August 14, 2017

OTP 14 August 2014: The American Pastimes of Rock ’n’ Roll, Baseball and Poetry

Maybe poetry and politics don’t mix. “I don’t want to get off into a whole thing about history here, but the Statue of Liberty is a symbol of American liberty lighting the world,” said Stephen Miller, a White House senior adviser, when he was challenged, recently, about the Trump administration’s proposal to restrict immigration. “The poem that you’re referring to was added later. It’s not actually part of the original Statue of Liberty.”

The poem, “The New Colossus,” was written by Emma Lazarus, who is being celebrated at the 92nd Street Y with works by 19 young poets inspired by her words. While the text wasn’t finally affixed to the base of the statue until 1903, the poem was commissioned in 1883 — three years before the statue opened — to raise money for the pedestal. Speaking of poems, more than 700 commercial, university and independent presses have contributed 3,000 items to the 2017 Poets House Showcase through Aug. 26 at Poets House in Battery Park City.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 07:18 AM | 3273 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: politics

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   1. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:23 AM (#5512658)
This is exactly what we need right now ... Inside the Failing Mission to Tame Donald Trump’s Tongue

In private, Mr. Trump’s mood is often sullen and erratic, his associates say. He veers from barking at members of his staff to grumbling about how he was better off following his own instincts during the primaries and suggesting he should not have heeded their calls for change.

He broods about his souring relationship with the news media, calling Mr. Manafort several times a day to talk about specific stories. Occasionally, Mr. Trump blows off steam in bursts of boyish exuberance: At the end of a fund-raiser on Long Island last week, he playfully buzzed the crowd twice with his helicopter.

But in interviews with more than 20 Republicans who are close to Mr. Trump or in communication with his campaign, many of whom insisted on anonymity to avoid clashing with him, they described their nominee as exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered by fine points of the political process and why his incendiary approach seems to be sputtering.
   2. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5512664)
Think Obamacare repeal was hard? Wait for tax reform

Congressional rules require Republicans to pass a fiscal 2018 budget before tackling partisan tax reform.

But House Republicans have been trying — and failing — to pass a budget for about two months, as conservative- and centrist-Republican demands pull Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and his team in opposite directions. Moderates have balked at House Budget Chairwoman Diane Black's proposed $200 billion of cuts to welfare programs included in the budget. But conservatives say those cuts aren't deep enough and have threatened to withhold their votes unless they get their way on key tax reform provisions.



The White House has said a tax package will get marked up in September, pass the House in October and clear the Senate by Thanksgiving. But most Hill GOP insiders know that's unlikely — if not impossible — because of the busy fall schedule.

Upon returning from August recess, lawmakers will have to raise the debt ceiling and avert a government shutdown by the end of September. Both votes are tough and will require bipartisan negotiations, sucking up GOP leadership's energy to the point that tax reform will have to take a backseat.

Hill insiders and the White House have also begun talks about a major bipartisan budget deal to raise strict spending caps on the Pentagon and domestic programs — yet another distraction from a tax bill. Both chambers will also need to pass a unified budget, a difficult feat given the divisions in the party.

Meanwhile, the clock is ticking on tax reform. GOP insiders say they have approximately four months to pass a bill before the 2018 election season kicks into high gear in January or February. Passage after that becomes even more precarious, as vulnerable Republicans turn skittish about taking tough votes.
   3. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:33 AM (#5512667)
Reposting: I'm rather conflicted about the GoDaddy thing. On the one hand I obviously have almost as little sympathy for the website operators as I do for Yankees fans when the team misses the playoffs. Moreover, GoDaddy is a private company and has every right to set its own policies and associate with, or disassociate with, whoever it chooses. But... it makes me a bit uncomfortable to contemplate an arrangement in which people whose views are unpopular should be denied access to the infrastructure that allows them to speak. Of course, there are lots of hosting companies, but it's not too difficult to foresee a cascade effect.
   4. Covfefe Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:33 AM (#5512668)
I thought John Oliver had the best line of the weekend --

"David Duke and the Nazis really seem to like Donald Trump, which is weird because Nazis are a lot like cats: If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them,"
   5. Covfefe Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5512670)
Reposting: I'm rather conflicted about the GoDaddy thing. On the one hand I obviously have almost as little sympathy for the website operators as I do for Yankees fans when the team misses the playoffs. Moreover, GoDaddy is a private company and has every right to set its own policies and associate with, or disassociate with, whoever it chooses. But... it makes me a bit uncomfortable to contemplate an arrangement in which people whose views are unpopular should be denied access to the infrastructure that allows them to speak. Of course, there are lots of hosting companies, but it's not too difficult to foresee a cascade effect.


Be careful - before you know it, you might find your opinion on net neutrality changing...
   6. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5512674)
I'd need evidence before concluding that no KKKer ever said something favorable about another us president, or carried favorable signs and such before signing off on the historical accuracy of the claim. I highly doubt it's accurate, but maybe it is. The klan has been around for a long time.
   7. Lassus Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5512675)
Painting racing stripes on my wife's minivan doesn’t make it a NASCAR contender.

This is an idiotic comparison for an observer, David, and you know better. Everyone knows the difference between a NASCAR and a minivan; and almost nobody at all (non-military), including you, can tell the difference between advanced civilian and military-grade rifles from 30 paces.

Actually, look at the picture. Can you tell me definitively it isn't an assault rifle sold to the holder prior to 1986?


(Also, I erased that immediately after I wrote it, not wanted to get into it, really, but as you caught it like an hour later, whatever.)
   8. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5512676)
But... it makes me a bit uncomfortable to contemplate an arrangement in which people whose views are unpopular should be denied access to the infrastructure that allows them to speak


Wait. What?! THIS is where you going to break form and worry about public-private entities such as the internet being treated as a public commons?! The #### man?
   9. Lassus Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5512677)
In private, Mr. Trump’s mood is often sullen and erratic, his associates say. He veers from barking at members of his staff to grumbling about how he was better off following his own instincts during the primaries and suggesting he should not have heeded their calls for change... But in interviews with more than 20 Republicans who are close to Mr. Trump or in communication with his campaign, many of whom insisted on anonymity to avoid clashing with him, they described their nominee as exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered by fine points of the political process and why his incendiary approach seems to be sputtering.

I find it weird that no one around him, nobody at all has a strong enough personality to put him in his place. Didn't Rahm get pissed at Obama and tell him so on multiple occasions? Or did I make that up in my head?
   10. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5512679)
Oh, please. The DC laws struck down by Heller and the Chicago laws struck down by McDonald were sensible to the people who drafted them, their constituents, millions of foreigners who have enacted similar laws, and four Supreme Court Justices
No. The dissenters in Heller/McDonald did not argue that the laws were "sensible." They held that the laws didn't violate the 2A/14A. The DC/Chicago laws were complete bans, and the only thing the Court held was that complete bans are unconstitutional. Not that gun regulations of any sort were.
   11. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5512680)
The President is a coward.
   12. DavidFoss Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5512681)
It's not a military-grade weapon. It may look like something the military would use, but it doesn't work like something the military would use. Painting racing stripes on my wife's minivan doesn’t make it a NASCAR contender.


Fair enough and thanks for the explanation. I understand the second amendment and I understand that they probably felt like they couldn't trust the police so they felt like they had to protect themselves. But from a practical aspect, it is difficult for local police themselves when demonstrators are armed to that degree. Yes, no shots were fired and guns were not the problem that day but it doesn't seem practical to have that many large guns at a potentially contentious demonstration. Should the National Guard be immediately called for these cases?
   13. BDC Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:43 AM (#5512683)
That story linked in #1 is a year old – I assume Mouse posted it for the benefit of anybody who thought, in August 2016, that Trump would pivot, become Presidential, mellow out, grow up, etc. etc. Not that I think we have many such wishful thinkers here.
   14. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:44 AM (#5512684)
Wait. What?! THIS is where you going to break form and worry about public-private entities such as the internet being treated as a public commons?! The #### man?
I said uncomfortable. I expressly said that GoDaddy had the right to do it.
   15. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:50 AM (#5512689)
Someone should do a spreadsheet of historical presidential reactions to KKK or Nazi marches. *Do* presidents typically reach out and denounce them? It's not as though they just started in 2017.
Warren Harding denounced the Klan. And not just from the safety of Twitter the Oval Office; he traveled to Birmingham, Alabama and gave a major speech about it.
   16. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5512691)
Under no circumstances should those racist scum have been allowed to brandish that kind of weaponry. The permit should have been granted only on condition that the racist scum were unarmed. If they don't like the condition, let them sue.
SBB: managing to mangle the first and second amendments since 2017.
   17. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:53 AM (#5512693)
Reposting: I'm rather conflicted about the GoDaddy thing. On the one hand I obviously have almost as little sympathy for the website operators as I do for Yankees fans when the team misses the playoffs. Moreover, GoDaddy is a private company and has every right to set its own policies and associate with, or disassociate with, whoever it chooses. But... it makes me a bit uncomfortable to contemplate an arrangement in which people whose views are unpopular should be denied access to the infrastructure that allows them to speak. Of course, there are lots of hosting companies, but it's not too difficult to foresee a cascade effect.


Huh? GoDaddy is effectively allowing people to speak in GoDaddy's living room. It's never been a conflict to allow a private entity to set its own terms for speech, including who speaks on their platform and who doesn't. If GoDaddy were discriminating against a protected class there would be a problem, but simply saying "We don't like their views/statements; we're cutting them loose" is not. Legally _or_ morally.
   18. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5512694)
I said uncomfortable. I expressly said that GoDaddy had the right to do it.


Yes, David. I read your words. And I note that THIS is the hill you're expressing discomfort on, of all previous hills. To be clear, I'm not suggesting you're supporting Stormfront or the Nazi #######, or even hacking your shins much at all. It's just weird.
   19. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5512695)
SBB: managing to mangle the first and second amendments since 2017.


Have you noticed how he's devolved into literally speaking like Trump these days?
   20. Covfefe Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5512696)
I find it weird that no one around him, nobody at all has a strong enough personality to put him in his place. Didn't Rahm get pissed at Obama and tell him so on multiple occasions? Or did I make that up in my head?


Well, the supposed big blowup came when Rahm wanted to abandon healthcare and move on - and Obama insisted on resurrecting what had, prior to his gangbusters appearance at the RCCC retreat, appeared dead in the water.

The Rahm-Obama partnership was always laced with oodles of irony... My favorite is that it was very much Rahm that wanted the administration to adopt an early 'war stance' against the GOP, whereas Obama preferred cool, detached technocracy.... meanwhile, plenty of folks from the Sanders wing/what would become the Sanders wing hated/blamed Rahm despite actually taking Obama to task for not, in essence, adopting Rahmism.

I think Obama always saw Rahm as a vehicle to be the 'bad cop' to his 'good cop'
   21. TDF, FCL Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5512697)
It's not a military-grade weapon. It may look like something the military would use, but it doesn't work like something the military would use. Painting racing stripes on my wife's minivan doesn’t make it a NASCAR contender.
In a world where it's OK for a black man to be killed for carrying what is clearly a toy (a toy that is sold in the store where he was shot, no less), or where a 12 year old can be killed for playing with a toy, your arguments that journalists are doing something wrong by describing semi-automatic weapons as fully automatic is less than compelling.
   22. Traderdave Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5512698)
Warren Harding denounced the Klan. And not just from the safety of Twitter the Oval Office; he traveled to Birmingham, Alabama and gave a major speech about it.


Sucking worse than Warren Harding is really an achievement.
   23. BDC Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:57 AM (#5512701)
In many parts of our country where the colored population is large the people of that race are by various devices deprived of any effective exercise of their political rights and of many of their civil rights. The wrong does not expend itself upon those whose votes are suppressed. Every constituency in the Union is wronged.


- Benjamin Harrison, first Annual Message, 1889
   24. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:58 AM (#5512705)
From the previous thread:

which is to name and shame groups and individuals whose words and actions have the effect of reducing the status of religious and ethnic minorities, in particular those with little power here in the United States. To you, that sort of naming should apparently be restricted to explicitly racist groups and individuals like Stormfront and Richard Spencer,

I think that if you're going to call someone an "extremist," you should reserve that name for someone who is extreme, rather than someone who you merely disagree with. If you're going to call someone a "hate group," you ought to reserve that for hate groups, rather than someone who you merely disagree with.


We're obviously never going to agree where to draw the line here, but I'd place it somewhere between Charles Murray, whose book has been used by racists but is far from being a racist himself, and Kris Kobach, whose rhetoric and actions regarding "voter fraud" speak for themselves, regardless of whether he hasn't been stupid enough to use explicitly racist language.

That's one way of looking at it, but then you wind up as that Politico author does, granting blanket immunity to practically anyone who works towards de facto racist ends without using Spencerian language. It effectively normalizes any sort of racist group or person who's mastered Public Relations 101 and CYA 102, such as the Trump crowd with its love of Voting Commissions and its crusade against brown skinned illegal immigrants.**

No. Labeling anyone who dislikes illegal immigration, or even wants to reduce legal immigration, as "racist" or "extremist" or "hate groups" is what normalizes people like Richard Spencer.


Are these the words of people who merely dislike illegal immigration?
"As Whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night? Or will there be an explosion?"

"I've come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority, and a clear one at that."

"I blame ninety-eight percent of responsibility for this country's immigration crisis on Ted Kennedy and his political allies, who decided some time back in 1958, earlier perhaps, that immigration was a great way to retaliate against Anglo-Saxon dominance and hubris, and the immigration laws from the 1920s were just this symbol of that, and it's a form of revengism, or revenge, that these forces continue to push the immigration policy that they know full well are [sic] creating chaos and will continue to create chaos down the line."

And gee, I wonder what group the authors of those views are associated with, with one of them being the group's current leader?

It's true that racists want to reduce immigration -- sometimes illegal, sometimes all. That does not mean that wanting to reduce immigration is a racist end.

Not by itself it doesn't, but when you look at the history and some of the other views of some of those who are active in anti-immigration organizations, you can't just dismiss those racist views as irrelevant to the broader consideration of what motivates those organizations in their anti-immigration zealotry.

** How many white Europeans who've overstayed their visas has ICE gone after with the zeal they go after illegal Mexicans and Central Americans?

Why don't you find out the answer and report back to us? Start here.


Congratulations, David, you've come up with one high profile Irish deportee. ICE is likely rounding up more illegal Mexican and Central American immigrants than that as I'm composing this sentence.

   25. BDC Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5512707)
It is gratifying to know that generally there is a growing and nonpartisan demand for better election laws; but against this sign of hope and progress must be set the depressing and undeniable fact that election laws and methods are sometimes cunningly contrived to secure minority control, while violence completes the shortcomings of fraud.


- Benjamin Harrison, second Annual Message, 1890
   26. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:00 AM (#5512708)
From the old thread, re the counterprotestor killed by a murderous trailertrash supremacist:

"A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value."

These people seem nice...
   27. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:01 AM (#5512711)
Sucking worse than Warren Harding is really an achievement.

Tough to get one's brain around all this winning.
   28. BDC Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5512713)
Lawlessness is not less such, but more, where it usurps the functions of the peace officer and of the courts. The frequent lynching of colored people accused of crime is without the excuse, which has sometimes been urged by mobs for a failure to pursue the appointed methods for the punishment of crime, that the accused have an undue influence over courts and juries. Such acts are a reproach to the community where they occur, and so far as they can be made the subject of Federal jurisdiction the strongest repressive legislation is demanded. A public sentiment that will sustain the officers of the law in resisting mobs and in protecting accused persons in their custody should be promoted by every possible means. The officer who gives his life in the brave discharge of this duty is worthy of special honor. No lesson needs to be so urgently impressed upon our people as this, that no worthy end or cause can be promoted by lawlessness.


- Benjamin Harrison, fourth Annual Message, 1892

I omitted 1891 because Harrison omitted much reference to civil rights and suffrage in that Message, instead offering just a hard-to-parse, rather academic refutation of states' rights. These messages were transmitted in December of the given year, so in Dec. 1891 he was gearing up to run for re-election. By Dec. 1892 he had run out of ####s to give.
   29. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5512714)
I have no issue with the scum being forced to effectively build and finance their own printing presses. That said, there's no reason for any confidence that modern liberals will stop with just the scum. See e.g. the splc calling speech that's anything but, "hate speech."
   30. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5512717)
In much more pleasing news, Trump's RCP average approval rating is back up to within 0.1% of his all-time low, even as I'm sure it's at an all-time high among his Alt-right fans.
   31. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5512718)
"A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value."


I'll just note that my wife, who pays $40,000/year in federal income tax, gave birth to our first child at age 36.

So, yeah.
   32. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5512721)
The President is a coward.

Also, the sun is hot, and water is wet.
   33. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:08 AM (#5512722)
The Venn diagram of me and modern liberals shows substantial overlap and substantial non-overlap. Such is the plight of actual liberalism in Trumps America.
   34. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5512724)
I'll just note that my wife, who pays $40,000/year in federal income tax, gave birth to our first child at age 36.

So, yeah.


My wife's 35 and has no children, nor do we plan to. And is of course gainfully employed and a taxpayer.
   35. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5512725)
"A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value."

These people seem nice...


Judging from the photos they're a bunch of loser 20 year old white guys who are so few in number that they had to come from all over the country just to have enough of them to step on a few dandelions. Why the entire country just gave them so much power is beyond me. These loons were irrelevant to anything before this.

But as we know the people who just ceded them all the power are the Smart Ones so they must know what they're doing.
   36. BDC Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:11 AM (#5512728)
my wife, who pays $40,000/year in federal income tax, gave birth to our first child at age 36

Has Trump presented her with her Mutterkreuz yet?
   37. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:12 AM (#5512730)
But as we know the people who just ceded them all the power are the Smart Ones so they must know what they're doing.

Yeah, it's not like these losers (er, sorry--"economically anxious folks") have a champion in the Oval Office or anything.
   38. Traderdave Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:12 AM (#5512731)
I just took a few minutes & read Ben Harrison's wiki page. It was a good refresher, as he's not a well known POTUS to most of us.

The article noted that his inaugural speech was much shorter than his grandfather's. That got me wondering how did a large crowd hear a speech in pre-amplification days? A breeze rustling the trees could make a speaker inaudible at a fairy short distance, and even the most stentorian speakers couldn't maintain a high decibel speech the length of an inaugural.

Anyone have a thought?


   39. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5512732)
My wife's 35 and has no children, nor do we plan to. And is of course gainfully employed and a taxpayer.


But she should be paying more in taxes, so let's not praise her just yet.
   40. SteveF Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5512733)
Has Trump presented her with her Mutterkreuz yet?

She'd need to squeeze out three more to qualify, I think.
   41. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5512734)
My wife's 35 and has no children, nor do we plan to. And is of course gainfully employed and a taxpayer.


Yeah, but I have to note that both of our wives stole those jobs from deserving white men.
   42. Ishmael Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5512735)
Bear’s question about what sort of statements US presidents have made about the KKK and American Nazis in the past is an interesting one, and one that, as a non-American I really don’t know the answer to.

Here are a couple of statements in somewhat equivalent situations, demonstrating different approaches to the issue.

My father fought them many long years ago in Texas and I have fought them all my life because I believe them to threaten the peace of every community where they exist. I shall continue to fight them because I know their loyalty is not to the United States of America but instead to a hooded society of bigots.

Men and women have stood against the Klan at times and at places where to do so required a continuous act of courage. So if Klansmen hear my voice today, let it be both an appeal and a warning to get out of the Ku Klux Klan now and return to a decent society before it is too late.

LBJ - March 26, 1965

Q. Mr. President, there's a group of American Nazis in Skokie, a suburb of Chicago, which is contemplating a march that's in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood, and there might be victims there of the Nazi concentration camps from World War II. Do you have any plan to use the moral weight of your office to try to discourage this kind .of a march?

THE PRESIDENT. I deplore it. I wish that this demonstration of an abhorrent political and social philosophy would not be present at all. This is a matter that is in the American Federal courts, as you know, and under the framework of the constitutional guarantee for free speech. I believe under carefully controlled conditions the courts have ruled that it is legal and that they have a right to act this way.

We have the same problem, as you know, in other parts of the Nation—in the South with the Ku Klux Klan, and others. And I don't have any inclination to intercede further. I think it's best to leave it in the hands of the court.

Jimmy Carter - January 30, 1978

I couldn’t find anything from Carter following Greensboro, although that was the day before the Iran hostage crisis kicked off.
   43. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5512739)
These people seem nice...


It's okay. They vote Republican. You have to make room at the table for them. It's a sign of disrespect to suggest they're bad people.
   44. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5512741)
But she should be paying more in taxes, so let's not praise her just yet.

Depends on what the tradeoffs are.

Part of a long-term relationship is accepting one's partner's flaws, so I forgive her relative miserliness when it comes to the taxes. She atones in other ways.
   45. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5512742)
It's okay. They vote Republican. You have to make room at the table for them. It's a sign of disrespect to suggest they're bad people.


Someone once called trump Hitler, so he's morally obligated to act as the leader of thes guys.
   46. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5512743)
It's a sign of disrespect to suggest they're bad people.

I'm glad you said this. You'd have been acting immorally had you not done so.

EDIT: Damn you, Misirlou...HIGH FIVE!1!1eleven!1!
   47. Ishmael Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:20 AM (#5512747)
The article noted that his inaugural speech was much shorter than his grandfather's. That got me wondering how did a large crowd hear a speech in pre-amplification days? A breeze rustling the trees could make a speaker inaudible at a fairy short distance, and even the most stentorian speakers couldn't maintain a high decibel speech the length of an inaugural.

Anyone have a thought?

Benjamin Franklin wrote the following after he attended one of George Whitefield’s sermons:

He had a loud and clear Voice, and articulated his Words and Sentences so perfectly that he might be heard and understood at a great Distance, especially as his Auditors, however numerous, observ’d the most exact Silence. He preach’d one Evening from the Top of the Court House Steps, which are in the middle of Market Street, and on the West Side of Second Street which crosses it at right angles. Both Streets were fill’d with his Hearers to a considerable Distance.

Being among the hindmost in Market Street, I had the Curiosity to learn how far he could be heard, by retiring backwards down the Street towards the River; and I found his Voice distinct till I came near Front Street, when some Noise in that Street, obscur’d it. Imagining then a Semicircle, of which my Distance should be the Radius, and that it were fill’d with Auditors, to each of whom I allow’d two square feet, I computed that he might well be heard by more than Thirty Thousand. This reconcil’d me to the Newspaper Accounts of his having preach’d to 25,000 People in the Fields, and to the ancient Histories of Generals haranguing whole Armies, of which I had sometimes doubted.
   48. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:21 AM (#5512748)
Yeah, but I have to note that both of our wives stole those jobs from deserving white men.

Even if they're runway models for female clothing designers?
   49. DavidFoss Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:26 AM (#5512751)
It was a good refresher, as he's not a well known POTUS to most of us.

The article noted that his inaugural speech was much shorter than his grandfather's.


I always remember Benjamin Harrison as the guy between the two Cleveland terms.

They mentioned his granddad's inauguration speech because that's all Tippecanoe did. It was a cold day, at 69 he was the oldest president before Reagan, he wasn't wearing an overcoat and he fell ill after the speech and died a month later.
   50. Covfefe Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:27 AM (#5512753)
Judging from the photos they're a bunch of loser 20 year old white guys who are so few in number that they had to come from all over the country just to have enough of them to step on a few dandelions. Why the entire country just gave them so much power is beyond me. These loons were irrelevant to anything before this.


It was asked - and went unanswered - last thread, so if what you say is true, why does your boy in the WH have so much trouble denouncing them by name, unencumbered with any whataboutism?

The list of people, organizations, and consortium he HAS specifically called out it is pretty lengthy... and as others have pointed out in response to SBB's desire for a list, other Presidents have had no trouble calling them out and denouncing them by name.

Why your boy's reticence?
   51. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5512756)
It was asked - and went unanswered - last thread, so if what you say is true, why does your boy in the WH have so much trouble denouncing them by name, unencumbered with any whataboutism?


I know this is rhetorically asked, but... "Internet troll president with strong white supremacist tendencies refuses to denounce gathering of white supremacist internet trolls" is not really "man bites dog," right?
   52. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:36 AM (#5512757)
I know this is rhetorically asked, but... "Internet troll president with strong white supremacist tendencies refuses to denounce gathering of white supremacist internet trolls" is not really "man bites dog," right?


Sure, but we just want the other side to acknowledge that their president might just be an internet troll with strong white supremecist tendencies. Then we can move forward.
   53. Traderdave Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5512760)
I always remember Benjamin Harrison as the guy between the two Cleveland terms.


That's about all I remembered about him. While he was no FDR or Abe Lincoln, he seems to have been at least a competent executive, and his defense of African American rights is commendable.



They mentioned his granddad's inauguration speech because that's all Tippecanoe did. It was a cold day, at 69 he was the oldest president before Reagan, he wasn't wearing an overcoat and he fell ill after the speech and died a month later.


There's some disagreement on this. Some say he didn't fall ill for a couple weeks into his term, that the speech isn't what got him sick.
   54. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5512763)
My question wasn't whether presidents have denounced the klan; it was whether presidents have expressed an opinion every time the klan has marched.
   55. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5512765)
The President is a coward.

Also, the sun is hot, and water is wet.


Thanks for the validation, Spahnnie.
   56. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5512767)
It was asked - and went unanswered - last thread, so if what you say is true, why does your boy in the WH have so much trouble denouncing them by name, unencumbered with any whataboutism?


What do you mean "and went unanswered?" I offered a theory, and was called disgusting for offering it. So I withdrew my theory and I now agree with all of you.
   57. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:43 AM (#5512771)
Thanks for the validation, Spahnnie.

What I'm here for.
   58. Lassus Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:48 AM (#5512774)
The lack of GoT talk should tell you all something about the episode.
   59. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:48 AM (#5512775)
More John Oliver:

"Trump had one last chance to take a shot before the white nationalism clock struck zero. And he threw up an airball that was so far off, it landed all the way in the third Reich.
   60. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:48 AM (#5512776)
My question wasn't whether presidents have denounced the klan; it was whether presidents have expressed an opinion every time the klan has marched.


And the examples offered were from 40 and 50 years ago, when the country was aflame with these issues and had a great many severe problems as a result. I thought there was a valid argument that given the great progress we had made (*) in these issues over the past half century that the best response now would just be to ignore the handful of losers causing trouble, but nobody wanted to hear it so I concluded that I was in the wrong for offering it.

(*) Sadly, I use "had" because it's now past tense as we're reverting.
   61. Covfefe Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5512777)
   62. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5512779)
I don't see anything in the Times archives between November 4, 1979 and November 6, 1979 indicating that Jimmy Carter said a word about Greensboro. The Times didn't editorialize on it until November 6. It was the third of four editorials, and read as follows in its entirety.

There was a photograph in The Times Sunday showing five white men in Greensboro, N.C., lifting rifles and shotguns from a car. They looked like deer hunters on a cool November day. But what went on in that town last Saturday was not deer hunting. Some Klansmen and Nazis, members of the violent fringe, killed five people. The victims were from another fringe, the Marxist left. They were members of the Communist Workers Party U.S.A. and they believed that provoking violence from the Klan might promote socialist revolution. Their slogan was “Death to the Klan.” It would have been hard, on the basis only of such rhetorical violence, for the police to deny them a parade permit. Yet by allowing them to march, the police created a special responsibility to keep the peace. Not only did the police not take any special precautions; they actually withdrew from the scene. Their excuse was that the marchers did not want protection. But society and the law demand protection in such circumstances. Once the permit was issued, the police should have been on hand, whether they were wanted or not. They might have saved lives.


The police screwed up royally in Charlottesville, too, and had social media not entered American society between Greensboro and Saturday, the dominant commentary would have likely been in much the same vein as the Times's editorial. It's a good laboratory test between how things are perceived on the old school news temporal cycle, and how things are perceived today. There's no question that social media drives perception and not vice versa.
   63. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:52 AM (#5512780)
The lack of GoT talk should tell you all something about the episode.

Not sure whether this is intended as praise or not, though it sounds more like not. A FB friend was gushing about how amazing the episode was (sort of out of character for her to fawn over a TV show), but never having seen the show, I don't have an opinion. (I've been to one of the Icelandic valleys where an episode was filmed, though. Nice scenery.)
   64. PepTech Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:54 AM (#5512782)
Judging from the photos they're a bunch of loser 20 year old white guys who are so few in number that they had to come from all over the country just to have enough of them to step on a few dandelions. Why the entire country just gave them so much power is beyond me. These loons were irrelevant to anything before this.

But as we know the people who just ceded them all the power are the Smart Ones so they must know what they're doing.
Before making any assumptions:

1) What do you mean by "the entire country just gave them so much power"?
2) What do you mean by "the people who just ceded them all the power"?
3) Specifically what "power" do you refer to?
   65. DavidFoss Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:56 AM (#5512784)
There's some disagreement on this. Some say he didn't fall ill for a couple weeks into his term, that the speech isn't what got him sick.

Ah... I'm reading that now. March 26th was when he first complained and inauguration was March 4th. That ruins one of my favorite presidential anecdotes. They still detail all the dumb things he did on inauguration -- two hour speech, horseback arrival instead of carriage, etc.

Wikipedia mentions that the White House water supply was downstream from "night soil" which is a fun euphemism for sewage that I hadn't heard before. I wonder if that also contributed to Taylor's death nine years later. The anecdote for him was that he got sick after binge-eating cherries and milk. Cholera was going around at the time. Polk did not die in office but he had the shortest post-presidency ever -- I think cholera claimed him three months into his retirement.
   66. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:58 AM (#5512788)
. . . arguments that journalists are doing something wrong by describing semi-automatic weapons as fully automatic is less than compelling.

Inaccuracy that supports your (and their) ideology is no vice, eh? Given how often media coverage gets even basic firearms information wrong, one is compelled to conclude that those media members are not very bright, or have decided to pursue an anti-gun agenda through exaggeration and misinformation. Actually, both, in all likelihood.
   67. Lassus Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:00 PM (#5512792)
Not sure whether this is intended as praise or not, though it sounds more like not.

Yeah. That episode and some of the commentary have moved towards confirming to me that the shortened season are from weariness on the part of the showrunners, to the detriment of the product. There's more than enough material and characters to go through without the need for these truncated seasons. The writing was quality ever with the base material running out prior to last season. I mean, it's still good entertainment, and I enjoy it, but the pacing now is completely sideways, and for no good reason.
   68. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5512793)
On November 5, 1979, the Greensboro KKKers who shot several people were denied bail. The Times ran the story on page 16. Here it is, in its entirety:

GREENSBORO, N.C., Nov. 5 ‐ Fourteen Ku Klux Klansmen, one of them also a regional commander of the American Nazi Party, sang “America” and “Onward Christian Soldiers” in their holding cell in this shocked Southern city this morning and then filed quietly into a state courtroom to hear charges of murder against them.

The state, District Attorney Michael Schlosser said, had cause to believe that the defendants “did lawfully, willfully and feloniously, with malice aforethought, kill and slay and murder James Waller, William E. Sampson, Cesar Vicente Cauce, and Sandra Smith.” All were denied bond, pending a “probable cause” hearing Nov. 20.

Saturday morning a band of armed men swept into a racially mixed group of anti‐Klan demonstrators and opened fire. The men, with pistols, shotguns and semiautomatic weapons, killed the four persons. A fifth, Dr. Michael Nathan, died today of gunshot wounds.

The defendants, the youngest 16, the oldest 60, shuffled deferentially before the bench in pairs, handcuffed together in yellow‐and‐orange prisoner jump suits, answering questions laconically: “Yes sir” . . . “No sir” . . . “That's right, Your Honor.”

One Called a ‘Storm Trooper’

One of the defendants, Rayford Maynard Caudle, 37 years old, peered at State District Judge Robert L. Cecil and asked him quietly if he might say something. Granted permission, he exclaimed, “God save America and this honorable court!” and was led away.

Continue reading the main story
Mr. Caudle, identified as a member of the “Storm Troopers,” the paramilitary wing of the National Socialist Party, the official name that American Nazis use, was charged, along with the 16‐year‐old, with conspiracy to murder. Another defendant, 34‐year‐old Roland Wayne Wood, was identified as Regional Commander of the Nazi group. A third party member is being sought for questioning.

The remaining 12 defendants — those other than Mr. Caudle and the teen‐ager — were charged with four counts each of first‐degree murder and one of conspiracy to murder. If convicted, under North Carolina law they could face the death penalty.

All 14, characterized by the prosecutor as “a band of marauders, 14 strong, who entered the county and cut a swath of destruction leaving four dead bodies,” were ‘denied bond as “imminently dangerous to others.” All were granted court‐appointed attorneys, on the grounds of indigence. Most listed their occupations as mill worker. One is a machine operator, another is a logger, another is a sheetmetal worker..

At City Hall today, William E. Swing, the Greensboro Police Chief, announced that the moratorium on parade permits would stand. The Communist Workers Party, sponsor of the rally, said it would defy the city in staging a funeral march here Sunday bearing the caskets of the five dead.

The backgrounds of the defendants —poorly educated and working in marginal jobs — contrasted sharply with those of the victims. Two of the dead, James Mitchell Waller, 37, and Dr. Nathan, 33, as well as one of those wounded, Paul Carl Bermanzohn, were medical doctors.

Traded Careers for Causes

William Sampson, 31, was a graduate of Harvard Divinity School and had a University of Virginia medical degree. All, rather than pursue lucrative practices, had dedicated themselves to radical causes. Dr. Waller and Mr. Sampson had abandoned medicine and taken jobs as textile workers.,

Mr. Sampson's widow, Dale, said in an interview that her husband had been a shop steward of a textile union local here in a Cone Mills plant. Dr. Waller, according to his widow, Signe, had been president of a local of Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union of America, at another Cone Mills plant. Mr. Waller was dismissed in August 1978 for falsifying his employment application, omitting his educational background.

Sandra Smith, 29, the only black killed, was a graduate of Bennett College here, where she had headed the Student Government Association in 1973‐74. She had also worked at a Cone Mills plant and had been active in the union movement.

César Vicente Cauce, 28, was a Cuban refugee graduated magna cum laude from Duke University with a political science degree in 1975. He was a clerical worker at Duke University Hospital and had attempted to organize workers there.

White House Orders Inquiry

WASHINGTON, Nov. 5 (UPI) — President Carter today directed the Justice Department to activate a special unit for investigation of Klan activities around the country, the White House announced. The President's press secretary, Jody Powell, said that more than two dozen agents of the F.B.I. had been sent to North Carolina.
   69. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5512794)
I included the term "Greensboro" in my search so I suppose it's possible something was missed, but it looks like Jimmy Carter didn't say a word about it.

At least in the first three days.
   70. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5512796)
My question wasn't whether presidents have denounced the klan; it was whether presidents have expressed an opinion every time the klan has marched.
No, actually, it was whether presidents "typically" did so, not whether they do so "every time." Obviously they didn't do so "every time"; they wouldn't even be aware of every such march. Many of which involve just a handful of people. But, then, the klan usually didn't claim the support of the president in the first place.

(Speaking of which, did Hoover denounce the Klan when Fred Trump was arrested for being part of their march/violent demonstration in Queens?)
   71. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5512797)
The lack of GoT talk should tell you all something about the episode.


I was really hoping to get more than 10 seconds into the episode before yelling at my TV :(
   72. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:10 PM (#5512800)
The backgrounds of the defendants —poorly educated and working in marginal jobs — contrasted sharply with those of the victims.


Shocking... [/eyeroll]
   73. Covfefe Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:10 PM (#5512801)
I included the term "Greensboro" in my search so I suppose it's possible something was missed, but it looks like Jimmy Carter didn't say a word about it.


As Andy, I believe, pointed out -- the Iran hostage crisis kicked off just a few hours after Greensboro...
   74. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5512802)
My question wasn't whether presidents have denounced the klan; it was whether presidents have expressed an opinion every time the klan has marched.

When 40,000 Klansmen marched on Washington 92 years ago last Tuesday, it was made up of 90% Northerners and was viewed by 200,000 spectators along the Pennsylvania Avenue parade route. President Coolidge was attending a conference on power napping in Massachusetts,** and there was no indication that he had any response to the march one way or the other.

** The official announcement gave commercial aviation as the conference's purpose, but that fooled nobody.
   75. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5512803)
I was really hoping to get more than 10 seconds into the episode before yelling at my TV :(


They literally could have made three episodes out of that one. ####, they could have made an episode out of the Lannister brothers' reunion. But yeah. 10 seconds in and I'm like "how the #### did they swim underwater a mile or more away from the goddamned dragon with heavy armor on?!"
   76. DavidFoss Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5512804)
Specifically what "power" do you refer to?

I hear this a bit in other contexts. There's this notion that offensive behavior only bothers you *if you let it*. It is not bad advice in many contexts. In some other contexts, it just lets people get away with stuff that they shouldn't.

Specifically here, the main problem is Trump. A sane president would just issue a statement that Nazis are bad and that they don't want their support and everyone would get bored and change the channel. For whatever reason, Trump is very careful to implicitly defend these groups when he'd otherwise lash out against almost anyone. This is what drives people nuts. Its the same thing about Putin. He dances around and walks on eggshells covering for Putin and then goes on a long colorful tirade against the Connecticut Senator who wonders why he's doing that. Same thing with the Birtherism.

Makes for great TV -- people tune in to watch what he'll say -- but its weird from the POTUS.
   77. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5512805)
But yeah. 10 seconds in and I'm like "how the #### did they swim underwater a mile or more away from the goddamned dragon with heavy armor on?!"


Well it must've taken them an hour or more, judging from the complete resolution of the battle.

Honestly, after Arya survived multiple gut-stabbing by swimming through a sewage canal to be stitched up by an actress, all bets are off. Anyone can live through anything. I'm waiting for Stannis to make his rightful return, headless or not.
   78. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5512806)
As Andy, I believe, pointed out -- the Iran hostage crisis kicked off just a few hours after Greensboro...


And? How does that mean he couldn't have said anything about it?

Note here that I'm not remotely criticizing Carter for it, or defending Trump, but simply noting it. The claim was that presidents somehow absolutely have to comment on these things. That claim is historically false.

Greensboro was actually way worse in terms of violence and death, yet crickets from the White House. And the main thrust of the Times's editorial -- three days in -- was the police failures.

Again -- far and away the biggest difference between then and now isn't anything substantive, but social media. Social media and instant communications and news impact perceptions and makes people see things that aren't actually there. Definitively in many cases.
   79. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5512807)
As Andy, I believe, pointed out -- the Iran hostage crisis kicked off just a few hours after Greensboro...

That was Ishmael who mentioned that in #42 above, not me. I had no idea of that coincidence.
   80. Traderdave Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:21 PM (#5512810)
Since precisely NOBODY thought Carter had any ties or allegiance to the Klan, and he was rightly busy with the crisis that was his undoing, there wasn't as much expectation for him to make a bold statement.

But given Il Duce's ties to the Klan, and others of that ilk, and their specifically naming him an an ally, and the fact that he watches hours a day of TV and definitely has the time to make a 90 second boilerplate statement, he really could have & should have done so.
   81. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:23 PM (#5512811)
The Times story on the denial of bail didn't even name the 14 defendants. It named two or three. No investigation of their backgrounds, etc., no repetition of their tweets and facebook lunacies. It rightly treated them as scum, unworthy of attention.

   82. Shredder Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5512813)
I'll just note that my wife, who pays $40,000/year in federal income tax, gave birth to our first child at age 36.
My wife paid probably a little more than that last year, if I allocate her percentage of the tax based on relative income. She'll give birth to our first child in a few months at age 40, deity of choice willing. She makes not quite twice as much as me. You could make a good argument that I'm a burden on her, though.
   83. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5512814)
Since precisely NOBODY thought Carter had any ties or allegiance to the Klan, and he was rightly busy with the crisis that was his undoing, there wasn't as much expectation for him to make a bold statement.


Either that, or you could just admit that the thesis was completely false. And that people calling Ray "disgusting" for speculating about it were, too.



   84. Traderdave Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:28 PM (#5512815)
And that people calling Ray "disgusting" for speculating about it were, too.


Fair point. That is not one of the host of reasons why RDP is disgusting.
   85. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5512816)
Since precisely NOBODY thought Carter had any ties or allegiance to the Klan, and he was rightly busy with the crisis that was his undoing, there wasn't as much expectation for him to make a bold statement.

There's also the fact that in Greensboro, a statement like Trump's would've actually had much validity, since the Communist Workers Party marchers were clearly out to provoke a reaction with their "Death to the Klan" banners, along with their equally incendiary rhetoric leading up to the march. Of course they walked right into a Klan ambush, as any five year old could've predicted was going to happen.
   86. Lassus Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:30 PM (#5512818)
I was really hoping to get more than 10 seconds into the episode before yelling at my TV :(

Oh, everyone knew that was going to happen, I barely cared about that. It didn't really bother me at the time at all, but when the laziness of the writing is pointed out, that's when it bugged me in retrospect.

I mean, maybe as they are great warriors they hold their breath, Dany has to go help someone and flies away before they come up gagging on water, I mean, so many ways to make that LESS ridiculous, but they seem to have stopped caring.

In general, the water thing was less irritating to me than everything else.
   87. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:31 PM (#5512819)
The Klan endorsed Reagan and "highly praised" the Republican platform in 1980. Reagan repudiated the personal endorsement but not, as best I can tell, the high praise of the platform.

Washington Post, September 17, 1980:

Carter also continued his squeeze on Reagan's Ku Klux Klan gaffe, in which the Republican nominee derided Carter for opening his campaign in the Alabama city that Reagan labeled the birthplace of the KKK.

Standing on the steps of the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Carter told reporters: "Obviously the Ku Klux Klan is an obnoxious blight on the American scene and anyone who injected it into the campaign made a serious mistake."

Reagan was the first candidate to refer to the Klan, but before him, Carter's own secretary of Health and Human Services, Patricia Harris, had injected the KKK into the campaign. She said the Reagan candidacy raised the "spectre of white sheets" because the klan had endorsed Reagan and highly praised his Republican platform -- an endorsement Reagan promptly repudiated. Andrew Young had also written a newspaper column noting angrily the KKK endorsement of Reagan and his party's platform.

Today, the issue was injected anew, as Carter sat on the stage alongside Young, the elder King and Coretta King, widow of the slain rights leader. Rep. Parren Mitchell (D-Md.) told the audience of Southern black political activists that he would address them in greater detail as soon as the president left and promised:

"I'm going to talk about a man who has embraced a platform that some men known as the Ku Klux Klan said couldn't be better if they'd written it themselves . . . who seeks the presidency of the United States with the endorsement of the Ku Klux Klan."
   88. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5512823)
James Fields, the KKK, neo-Nazis...hate groups of all stripes are the scum of the Earth.

So instead of "Drain the Swamp," how about we "Skim the Scum," instead?
   89. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5512824)
There's also the fact that in Greensboro, a statement like Trump's would've actually had much validity, since the Communist Workers Party marchers were clearly out to provoke a reaction with their "Death to the Klan" banners, along with their equally incendiary rhetoric leading up to the march.


The difference between that and "antifa" rhetoric is immaterial and certainly not explanatory of the difference.
   90. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM (#5512827)
Since precisely NOBODY thought Carter had any ties or allegiance to the Klan …

Perhaps, but isn't this a much bigger gaffe than anything any recent President has said:
I have nothing against a community that is made up of people who are Polish, or who are Czechoslovakians, or who are French Canadians or who are blacks trying to maintain the ethnic purity of their neighborhoods. This is a natural inclination. … Government should not break up a neighborhood on a numerical basis. As soon as the Government does, the white folks flee.

Have to be pretty generous to give that one a pass.
   91. Rockwell Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM (#5512829)
James Fields, the KKK, neo-Nazis...hate groups of all stripes are the scum of the Earth.


Everybody knows that, and everybody knew it in 1979. The demands that it be reiterated, lest one be "giving cover to neo-Nazis" is purely a product of today's media and communications environments.
   92. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:40 PM (#5512831)
I was really hoping to get more than 10 seconds into the episode before yelling at my TV :(

Oh, everyone knew that was going to happen, I barely cared about that. It didn't really bother me at the time at all, but when the laziness of the writing is pointed out, that's when it bugged me in retrospect.



It's just indicative of the general laziness that has permeated the writing since they moved away from Martin's source material. Arya's surviving a gut-stabbed swim through a Braavosi chamberpot without a hint of septic peritonitis was the worst one for me, but the glib cliff-hanging resolution for Jaime was almost as annoying for the empty-headed deus ex machina tone of it all.

But hey, lookie here, semi-literate Gilly just broke the biggest revelation of the show thus far, ain't that just a swell coincidence?
   93. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5512833)
James Fields, the KKK, neo-Nazis...hate groups of all stripes are the scum of the Earth.


Everybody knows that, and everybody knew it in 1979. The demands that it be reiterated, lest one be "giving cover to neo-Nazis" is purely a product of today's media and communications environments.


Skim the Scum!

And it's not about "giving cover," it's the whole "on many sides...on many sides" thing. It was one side that killed anybody.

That, plus the fact that President Yellow-Stain rode Obama's ass for not saying "radical Islamic terrorism," when he can't bring himself to say "white supremacist domestic terrorism."

But his exalted daughter had no problem saying it.
   94. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5512834)
Hundred buried alive in massive Sierra Leone mudslides and flood. Looks pretty bad.
   95. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:46 PM (#5512835)
Trump has condemned Nazism in a tweet.

I bet you hippies won't be satisfied though.
   96. TDF, FCL Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5512836)
. . . arguments that journalists are doing something wrong by describing semi-automatic weapons as fully automatic is less than compelling.

Inaccuracy that supports your (and their) ideology is no vice, eh? Given how often media coverage gets even basic firearms information wrong, one is compelled to conclude that those media members are not very bright, or have decided to pursue an anti-gun agenda through exaggeration and misinformation. Actually, both, in all likelihood.
Way to cut out the most important part of my statement.

But since you're being obtuse, let me rephrase: Since we handwave away when the guys we pay to protect us make much larger mistakes in identifying real vs. fake guns, why is it that an amateur misidentifying one type of real gun vs. another type of real gun** is the real travesty?

**I would also point out that you and DMN are only assuming the guns aren't assault rifles. You know no more than anyone else (other than the owners of said guns) whether they're assault rifles or not; you're just assuming they aren't because such guns are "illegal" and "hard to get".
   97. Lassus Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5512837)
But hey, lookie here, semi-literate Gilly just broke the biggest revelation of the show thus far

Creating that technicality reveal actually seems rather needless, but I don't live there, so whatever.
   98. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:49 PM (#5512838)
Since precisely NOBODY thought Carter had any ties or allegiance to the Klan,
Well, there was the time where he announced his support for "ethnic purity" in neighborhoods and said that he wouldn't use the government to integrate them. That probably got a few KKK hearts aflutter.

EDIT: My coke budget is getting unmanageable.
   99. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:50 PM (#5512839)
Good speech by Trump, one he got past the obligatory self back patting intro. Would have been nice had he referred to the vehicular homicide as an act of domestic terrorism, which he would have in a New York minute had the driver been a Muslim or an immigrant. Still, one wonders why he couldn't have said something on Saturday. I give him a 9 on content, and a 3 on sincerity..
   100. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 14, 2017 at 12:50 PM (#5512840)
Arya's surviving a gut-stabbed swim through a Braavosi chamberpot without a hint of septic peritonitis was the worst one for me, but the glib cliff-hanging resolution for Jaime was almost as annoying for the empty-headed deus ex machina tone of it all.


Jaime's plot armor seems to be as heavy, or buoyant, as moving #### along at break neck speed requires.
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