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Monday, August 14, 2017

OTP 14 August 2014: The American Pastimes of Rock ’n’ Roll, Baseball and Poetry

Maybe poetry and politics don’t mix. “I don’t want to get off into a whole thing about history here, but the Statue of Liberty is a symbol of American liberty lighting the world,” said Stephen Miller, a White House senior adviser, when he was challenged, recently, about the Trump administration’s proposal to restrict immigration. “The poem that you’re referring to was added later. It’s not actually part of the original Statue of Liberty.”

The poem, “The New Colossus,” was written by Emma Lazarus, who is being celebrated at the 92nd Street Y with works by 19 young poets inspired by her words. While the text wasn’t finally affixed to the base of the statue until 1903, the poem was commissioned in 1883 — three years before the statue opened — to raise money for the pedestal. Speaking of poems, more than 700 commercial, university and independent presses have contributed 3,000 items to the 2017 Poets House Showcase through Aug. 26 at Poets House in Battery Park City.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 07:18 AM | 3273 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   2701. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:16 PM (#5517303)
There's something weird going on here where people are trying to move the line for the start of the civil rights era forward so that they can exclude some lynchings on a technicality.

Arguing that the majority of lynchings don't "count" because they don't fall within your TDS-driven timeline...

it's not a good look.

   2702. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:21 PM (#5517306)


Everything about Sam is pleasant, except when he tells you nattering nutters truths you're uncomfortable hearing.


The nattering on about GoT & various other TV shows & superhero movies gets old, but then I could sit here & drone on about, I dunno, UFO lore or vintage punk or old coins (an interest recently rekindled in me for the first time since childhood, for some reason) or whatever & be less than engrossing as well.
   2703. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5517307)
What's the argument here? Hard to tell from the last page. That the civil rights movement caused lynchings to spike?
   2704. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:27 PM (#5517312)
What's the argument here? Hard to tell from the last page. That the civil rights movement caused lynchings to spike?


I think it's that the Freedom Riders were history's greatest monsters.
   2705. DavidFoss Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5517317)
That the civil rights movement caused lynchings to spike?

That this is not the nadir of the American experience and that baby boomers in the media should know better than to say that it is.

People aren't getting lynched anymore. Heiresses aren't being kidnapped and forced to rob banks at gunpoint. Hippies aren't seducing young women into murdering movie stars. The Trump Era isn't that bad. :-)
   2706. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:38 PM (#5517318)

Shorter version: “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”


All well & good, but of course people don't live in a long arc (well, technically they do, but still), they live in the present. I'm reminded of the statement Stokely Carmichael attributed to a lady in Alabama -- "The food that Ralph Bunche eats doesn't fill my stomach."
   2707. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5517319)
Heiresses aren't being kidnapped and forced to rob banks at gunpoint.


Ivanka as Tania would be sooooooo cool.
   2708. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:41 PM (#5517320)
Oh. Similar to "yeah, we have poverty, but nothing like 3rd world poverty, so feel lucky, those of you here living in poverty." Ivory tower bull ####.

   2709. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:42 PM (#5517321)
Ray, this is like saying that a 70-win team that has a great farm system and great young players is necessarily more discouraging than a superior team that's on the decline and has a ####### buffoon general manager.

But it's dumber than that.
   2710. DavidFoss Posted: August 20, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5517325)
Ivanka as Tania would be sooooooo cool.

I was actually thinking Tiffany, but Ivanka would work too.

Can you imagine if that happened today? She was a kidnappee or fugitive (or both) for *seven months*.
   2711. BDC Posted: August 20, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5517333)
The Army was integrated in 1948, but it took a decade for it to be fully enforced

I am so slow to catch up with movies – I just saw Florence Foster Jenkins. It is a good film, sort of the Ed Wood of classical-music pictures. But there was one thing vividly "off" about it for 1944: the continual showing of integrated groups of servicemen (out on the town, in Carnegie Hall, etc.)
   2712. zenbitz Posted: August 20, 2017 at 03:04 PM (#5517335)
I Condemn unprovoked violence against police by leftist protesters.

"low point in American history" seems like an oversell to me, but obviously one's personal level of discouragement is internal.
   2713. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 20, 2017 at 03:06 PM (#5517337)
"low point in American history" seems like an oversell to me,


Who said this?
   2714. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 20, 2017 at 03:07 PM (#5517339)
I Condemn unprovoked violence against police by leftist protesters.


But do the "do you condemn this?!" brigades condemn unprovoked violence against leftist protesters by police?
   2715. Srul Itza At Home Posted: August 20, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5517342)
True. But the question of "where the Civil Rights era begins" most correctly is answered "with the end of WW II." The primary driver for AA activism that created and then drove forward the Civil Rights movement that peaked with MLK were black veterans coming home from Europe and the Pacific and saying quietly but with absolute iron in their spines "I did not fight fascists and imperialists overseas to return home to this ####."


There is an interesting parallel here with the AJA's returning to Hawaii from WWII, and demanding their rightful place at the table after their sacrifices and after the shame of internment. At that time, the Republicans -- Heirs to the plantation owners and the big trading and mercantile companies -- controlled everything, and important local institutions like the Pacific Club would not admit Asians. Now, Hawaii is the deepest blue state in the union.
   2716. Srul Itza At Home Posted: August 20, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5517347)
My people were Galitzianers and from the Pale of Settlement.

As near as we can tell, anyone who didn't make it out before 1939, didn't make it out.

If somebody wants to call themselves a Nazi, I cannot really bring myself to care if anything happens to them. There are 7.5 Billion people in the world. Their removal from the gene pool would not be any measurable loss to necessary genetic diversity. (and if ((())) wants to know, we can also easily survive the subtraction of any jihadis and murder-inspiring imams from the breeding population)

There are plenty of other creatures in the world more deserving of my emotional sympathy, like feral cats.

[Edited to increase the acceptable body count]

   2717. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: August 20, 2017 at 03:52 PM (#5517357)
Despite the chaos of the times, the '60's into the '70's was a time of blossoming freedom across the culture. People could let their freak flags fly.

Morning in America was actually an eclipse.
   2718. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: August 20, 2017 at 03:55 PM (#5517360)
You can generally break the contributors to this thread into two broad categories. People who actually know and live with the problem in question, and a bunch of NEC trust fund "conservatives" and limousine liberals who have no idea what the #### they're talking about.

Past the binary thinking, reality is quite complex. There's some truth to the southern affinity thing. Especially amongst its outsiders.
   2719. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:01 PM (#5517365)
So there's no room in the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History for Clarence Thomas (yeah, right) but plenty of space for Colin Kaepernick?

Uh, huh.
   2720. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:01 PM (#5517366)
Despite the chaos of the times, the '60's into the '70's was a time of blossoming freedom across the culture. People could let their freak flags fly.

Morning in America was actually an eclipse.


For the record, this is straight regurgitation of SBB's "1979, then Teh Delcinezzz!" bit.
   2721. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:02 PM (#5517367)
It's actually quite pleasant to have a "beer" with him.
FTFY, Ray.
   2722. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5517370)
FTFY, Ray.


People like my beer. People don't like that weird Czech #### you refuse to drink anything other than. Expand your horizons, Beavis.
   2723. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:04 PM (#5517372)
Dick Gregory, the 1960s comedian who died yesterday, had a magnificent joke-not-a-joke about regional attitudes: "In the South, they don’t mind how close I get, as long as I don’t get too big. In the North, they don’t mind how big I get, as long as I don’t get too close.”
   2724. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:05 PM (#5517373)
Feral cats are okay as long as they are checked by coyote.
   2725. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:06 PM (#5517374)
People like my beer.
And HBO showed Girls for six seasons. So what if folks drink your peach piss?
   2726. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:07 PM (#5517376)

For the record, this is straight regurgitation of SBB's "1979, then Teh Delcinezzz!" bit.

Reagan is my Trump.
   2727. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:11 PM (#5517380)
Who's afraid of Antifa? Looks like CNN.

Call them violent and they just might hurt you...
   2728. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:28 PM (#5517388)
Call them violent and they just might hurt you...


Alternately, allowing the propaganda organs of the alt-Nazi right to set your language in terms of discourse is just fine.
   2729. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:31 PM (#5517395)
JE, #2727:
Who's afraid of Antifa? Looks like CNN.
Call them violent and they just might hurt you...



Meanwhile, other sources are speculating that CNN changed the original headline ("Activists Seek Peace Through Violence") because it could be read as too positive, or as an endorsement of their tactics.

Either way, shame on CNN for downplaying Antifa's violence, only mentioning it in passing:
A federal indictment charges individuals in the group with starting fires, property destruction and physical violence that erupted on the streets

And their methods are often violent. Antifa leaders admit they're willing to physically attack anyone who employs violence against them or who condones racism -- as long as force is used in the name of eradicating hatred.

Earlier this year, Antifa activists were among those who smashed windows and set fires during protests at the University of California, Berkeley

And white nationalists, neo-Nazis and others -- who have been blamed for provoking violence at last week's "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Virginia -- claim it was Antifa groups that first got aggressive.

Indeed, over the past year, Antifa members have been involved in clashes across the country and the world, including in Chicago, Philadelphia, Houston, Alabama and Nebraska, and at the G20 summit in Hamburg, Germany.

"What I think is new is that they're more active both in making themselves prominent at violent rallies and also trying to bridge into the disenfranchised peaceful progressive movement."

"But you know, people have a right to give their two cents' worth, give a speech, without fear of violence and intimidation."

"There was a normalization of political violence which first started with regard to the Trump rallies," Levin said. "Indeed, we saw alt-right people manhandling African-American protesters," he said, using a term many white-rights activists use to describe themselves. "Then what happened is these fiery embers crossed the fire line, so now on the far-left they say the best way to resist is violence because they're out-gunned in this new era of President Trump."

"I fought (against) Nazis. I've had death threats. I've had guns drawn on me. I've drawn guns on fascists. I've been in altercations. I've smoke-bombed places," he said. "I've done a myriad of things to try and stop fascism and its flow over the years."

"People put on the masks so that we can all become anonymous, right? And then, therefore, we are able to move more freely and do what we need to do, whether it is illegal or not," he said.

"Even though it only takes one person to break a window, it doesn't matter because the bloc moves together," said a 26-year-old named Maura

Antifa activists often don't hesitate to destroy property, which many see as the incarnation of unfair wealth distribution. "Violence against windows -- there's no such thing as violence against windows," a masked Antifa member in Union Square told CNN. "Windows don't have -- they're not persons. And even when they are persons, the people we fight back against, they are evil. They are the living embodiment, they are the second coming of Hitler."

"Each of us breaks the law every day. It's just that we make the conscious choice to do that," he said. Antifa members also sometimes launch attacks against people who aren't physically attacking them. The movement, Crow said, sees alt-right hate speech as violent, and for that, its activists have opted to meet violence with violence.

But Levin argues the violence is giving ammunition to racists -- and is anathema to the Antifa mission. "It's killing the cause -- it's not hurting it, it's killing it, and it will kill it," Levin said. "We're ceding the moral high ground and ceding the spotlight to where it should be, which is shining the spotlight on the vile."

Levin, who for decades has attended rallies at both extremes to study radical groups, said he put his own body between an Antifa member and a Klan member when Antifa protesters attacked with knives at a February 2016 a rally in Anaheim, California. "No, it's not OK to punch a Nazi," Levin said. "If white nationalists are sophisticated at anything, it's the ability to try to grasp some kind of moral high ground when they have no other opportunity, and that's provided when they appear to be violently victimized. That's the only moral thread that they can hang their hats on. And we're stupid if we give them that opportunity."

police were coming off a violent May Day protest in which they watched Antifa activists run through the business district, destroying storefronts and setting fires.

Despite Portland's liberal reputation, it has a history of clashes between extreme groups on the right and left. Residents have gotten fed up with the escalating violence, Simpson said. "It is new, and this, like, this rumble mentality of, 'I'm going to bring my friends, you're going bring your friends, and we're going to fight it out in the park' -- it's not something we've seen here," Simpson said.

Law enforcement in several cities told CNN there's no excuse for the violence. "The fires starting -- that we saw on May Day -- is something we haven't really seen much of in the past," Simpson said. "The running through the street, breaking windows and everything in sight, we haven't seen it as consistently as we've seen it in the last eight months."

"You have to put your body in the way," the group's leader said, "and you have to make it speak in the language that they understand. And sometimes that is violence." It's a perspective several Antifa activists shared with CNN, even knowing that violence has led to hundreds of arrests across the country.
   2730. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5517396)
Alternately, allowing the propaganda organs of the alt-Nazi right to set your language in terms of discourse is just fine.
Speaking of the "alt-Nazi right," Sammy, let's quake in mortal fear of the YUGE horde of horrible evil-empire types who gathered in Boston yesterday.
   2731. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5517399)
Sammy, let's quake in mortal fear of the YUGE horde of horrible evil-empire types who gathered in Boston yesterday


Okay Jason. Since Jason, you want to do that, let's totally do that Jason. Because the fact that the "alt-left" counter protesters there, Jason, are in no way whatsoever vicious or violent or combative, Jason, which is what you want to say the "alt-left" monster you, Jason, and yours, Jason, have dreamt up as a counterweight piece of propaganda to cover, Jason, your alliance with actual neo-Nazis, Jason, are.
   2732. DavidFoss Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5517400)
Who's afraid of Antifa? Looks like CNN.


That's quite the interpretation there.

They had an Antifa Debate on Meet the Press this morning. AntiFascist Handbook Author vs SPLC guy.

   2733. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5517402)
Meanwhile, other sources are speculating that CNN changed the original headline ("Activists Seek Peace Through Violence") because it could be read as too positive, or as an endorsement of their tactics.
Now pull my other finger, Gonfalon.
   2734. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5517403)
They had an Antifa Debate on Meet the Press this morning. AntiFascist Handbook Author vs SPLC guy.
I saw. Left vs. Loony Left. Some debate.
   2735. DavidFoss Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:39 PM (#5517407)
I saw. Left vs. Loony Left. Some debate.


You wanted to hear from the "very fine people"? Not these agitators?

They did give equal time. They showed part of the vice video with the more disturbing Chris Cantwell lines.
   2736. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5517410)
Okay Jason. Since Jason, you want to do that, let's totally do that Jason. Because the fact that the "alt-left" counter protesters there, Jason, are in no way whatsoever vicious or violent or combative, Jason, which is what you want to say the "alt-left" monster you, Jason, and yours, Jason, have dreamt up as a counterweight piece of propaganda to cover, Jason, your alliance with actual neo-Nazis, Jason, are.
I've never once used the term "alt-Left," Sammy. You must have me confused with someone else.

Here's what it comes down to: You and your Antifa/BAMN pals endorse criminal activity, including assault and battery. I don't.

Also, you drink peach piss. In generous quantities.
   2737. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:45 PM (#5517412)
Also, you drink peach piss. In generous quantities.


Horse piss, sure -- that's pretty much all beer to me. Never heard of a peach pissing, though.
   2738. Count Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:45 PM (#5517414)
Here's what it comes down to: you *for some reason* are choosing to frame a massive, peaceful anti-racist protest as being about a few people who were arrested.
   2739. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5517415)
Despite the farfles of the pleep, the 60's and 70's was a pleep of blubbling echhies across the flambam. Jebers could let their pliff ploffs pog.

A stitch in time saves 9.
   2740. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5517416)
JE, #2733:
Meanwhile, other sources are speculating that CNN changed the original headline ("Activists Seek Peace Through Violence") because it could be read as too positive, or as an endorsement of their tactics.

Now pull my other finger, Gonfalon.



Yeah, really sorry, I was unthinkingly swallowing the pinko party line from those libtards over at the Daily Wire:
Of course, the more pertinent point here is that CNN actually appears to believe the Antifa public relations: that they're just busting up Starbucks and punching everyone with a possibly Nazi-looking haircut in pursuit of an agenda that is mostly just snuggly bears and group hugs.

After the Internet noticed CNN's little "error" – and after Antifa protesters infiltrated a peace march in Boston and started attacking police officers – under the cover of darkness, CNN changed its headline and added an "editorial note," though they didn't apologize for the mis-characterization.

I feel so foolish, it's even starting to make me question some of the Daily Wire snowflakes' other stories: "Dilbert Creator Shreds Trump Haters With Single Succinct Summation," "This Black Conservative Student Was Assaulted For Wearing A Conservative Hat At A Vigil For Charlottesville Victim," "Google Now Working With Liberal Groups To Target Conservative Websites," and even "Antifa Thugs Berate War Veteran: 'F*ck Off, Nazi Scum!'"
   2741. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:47 PM (#5517419)
You wanted to hear from the "very fine people"? Not these agitators?


David Duke & Stephen Miller would've been acceptable, I suppose.
   2742. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5517421)
You wanted to hear from the "very fine people"? Not these agitators?

They did give equal time. They showed part of the vice video with the more disturbing Chris Cantwell lines.
Your response is revealing, Foss. The sensible center is where "equal time" should be given. JC Watts probably came closest to meeting that definition today.
   2743. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5517424)
For some reason I've never found the Middle East or anything related to it at all interesting,


BTW, I'm not sure how this works. Am I supposed to take a page from the RDP playbook & remind everyone every couple of pages that I don't care about the above? Or just when the subject comes up?

I presume that latter, but I want to do this correctly.
   2744. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:52 PM (#5517425)
David Duke & Stephen Miller would've been acceptable, I suppose.
EDIT: David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Stephen Miller is a practicing Jew. It's ludicrous to consider them the same.
   2745. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5517427)
Yeah, really sorry, I was unthinkingly swallowing the pinko party line from those libtards over at the Daily Wire:
Got a link?
   2746. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5517429)
   2747. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:58 PM (#5517432)
Sure!

CNN Alters Headline After Claiming that Antifa Seeks 'Peace Through Violence'
The mainstream media network appeared to praise the black-clad 'anti-Fascists'
Thanks, Gonfalon. Yeah, that was a weird take. Regardless, she still thinks CNN is kissing Antifa ass.
   2748. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5517434)
David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Stephen Miller is a practicing Jew. It's ludicrous to consider them the same.


I don't consider them the same. Nor do I consider an antifascist guy & an SPLC (who BTW could, so far as I know, supply at least a couple of practicing Jews themselves, not that I've met anyone from there in several years [my old newspaper here was formerly located a block or so from where their HQ still stands] ... proving what, exactly?) guy the same.

   2749. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5517437)
JE, #2747:
Yeah, that was a weird take. Regardless, she still thinks CNN is kissing Antifa ass.


It's a speculative criticism as credible as the immediate response by Daily Caller, Town Hall, or Hot Air that CNN was fearful that masked hoodlums might beat up Wolf Blitzer.

For what it's worth, Breitbart also believes that CNN was attempting to "normalize" Antifa through its approving headline.


[EDIT: Nobody actually speculated about the potential physical threat to Wolf Blitzer's beard.]
   2750. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:08 PM (#5517443)
I don't consider them the same. Nor do I consider an antifascist guy & an SPLC (who BTW could, so far as I know, supply at least a couple of practicing Jews themselves, not that I've met anyone from there in several years [my old newspaper here was formerly located a block or so from where their HQ still stands] ... proving what, exactly?) guy the same.
But I freely consider Miller to be way out on my right flank. What's unfortunate is that MSM *still* considers SPLC a fair arbiter of what is and isn't hate, not a left-wing interest group.
   2751. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:08 PM (#5517444)
For what it's worth, Breitbart also believes that CNN was attempting to "normalize" Antifa through its approving headline.


I'm hardly their spokesman (there aren't any, AFAIK, as a matter of principle), but rest assured that those guys haven't the slightest desire to be "normalized."
   2752. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5517445)
But I freely consider Miller to be way out on my right flank. What's unfortunate is that MSM *still* considers SPLC a fair arbiter of what is and isn't hate, not a left-wing interest group.


As do I, not surprisingly. Then again, I spent 19 years or so as part of the MSM, so probably I'm poisoned beyond redemption, even nearly 15 years after my career ended.
   2753. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:12 PM (#5517450)
For what it's worth, Breitbart also believes that CNN was attempting to "normalize" Antifa through its approving headline.
To be sure, these outlets are equally concerned about what's written in the article.

But I still see "Activists Seek Peace Through Violence" as an admission Antifa deserves much blame, not an act of praise.
   2754. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:16 PM (#5517457)
The sensible center is where "equal time" should be given. JC Watts probably came closest to meeting that definition today.


But failing to have called for Linda Sarsour to be drawn and quartered in the public arena, FAIL.
   2755. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:33 PM (#5517485)
What's unfortunate is that MSM *still* considers SPLC a fair arbiter of what is and isn't hate, not a left-wing interest group.

Funny how your silly opinion of the SPLC isn't shared by many law enforcement agencies, but I guess they have to await certification by The Daily Caller or David Horowitz before meeting with your approval.
   2756. Hot Wheeling American Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:33 PM (#5517486)
A Benny Johnson sighting on baseball think factory! My word.
   2757. BDC Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:52 PM (#5517518)
I dunno, the warrant that the peace marchers are the jackboots of the 21st century, led by Talibans like the Charlottesville City Council and the Dallas School Board, is a little hard to take sometimes. But you know, they did rescind Ann Coulter's invitation to something once. And they failed to prevent some anti-Hillary book from being published, though they tried. And one of them once said the word "intersectionality" in an earnest tone of voice!

I guess I am going to be surprised when they intern my white ### for reeducation :)
   2758. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: August 20, 2017 at 05:54 PM (#5517522)
Here's what it comes down to: you *for some reason* are choosing to frame a massive, peaceful anti-racist protest as being about a few people who were arrested.


An anti "free speech" protest.

Debunking the Myth of Free Speech

Although US exceptionalism means we are loath to look overseas and crib from successful policies implemented elsewhere, the time is overdue for us to catch up here. City officials implemented an anti-hate-speech standard in Boston in a clumsy manner. We might as well do it right.

Who needs free speech when your rich and well-connected like Susan Webber?
   2759. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: August 20, 2017 at 06:00 PM (#5517530)
I guess I am going to be surprised when they intern my white ### for reeducation

Nah, you'll just be out of a job.
   2760. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 20, 2017 at 06:08 PM (#5517543)
An anti "free speech" protest.


The constitution isn't a suicide pact, dumbass.
   2761. Count Posted: August 20, 2017 at 06:58 PM (#5517564)
They called it a "free speech" protest, but it was just a bunch of racist ########. They don't care about speech and the rally was not actually in support of free speech. (Who of course should be allowed to march etc.)
   2762. McCoy Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:04 PM (#5517568)
Finally got caught up with Game of Thrones. So many stupid plotholes and huge leaps of logic in this last episode which made most of the previous episodes pointless all just so we can give the fans what they knew was coming.
   2763. Sebastian Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:25 PM (#5517572)
This is for the Canadians: I just got home from seeing Japandroids. That was their third show in Vienna and the third show I’ve seen and they keep getting better. They hung around after the show and were all around lovely people; and before that they played an amazing set, even though Brian’s voice is shot. Canadian musicians are demonstrably the best people in the world.
   2764. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:32 PM (#5517574)
But failing to have called for Linda Sarsour to be drawn and quartered in the public arena, FAIL.
What are you babbling about now?
   2765. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:33 PM (#5517575)
Funny how your silly opinion of the SPLC isn't shared by many law enforcement agencies,
And a number of corporations jumped into bed with Jesse Jackson's Operation PUSH racket. So what?
   2766. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:35 PM (#5517577)
Look, it's clear there's no point in bringing up any of the violence by the left, in any context or "tact." It simply is outside the bounds of discussion. It is only permissible to condemn Nazis, full stop. If you try to point out that non-Nazis committed violence too, you'll get branded a Nazi supporter, which really is not that much different from being a Nazi.

So I'm going to try to just stop engaging the rest of the argument and just agree with people that Nazis Are Bad And We're Not Allowed To Say Anything Else. You may consider this a concession offered. I don't agree with your argument, but I'm going to stop making mine.
   2767. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:37 PM (#5517579)
Jamie Kirchick is en fuego:
I'm trying to vain to find: were there any actual "nazis" or "fascists" protested on the Boston Common yesterday?
Just because you say you're "anti-fascist" doesn't mean the people and things you oppose are fascists.
The Soviets used to call anyone who disagreed with them a fascist. Antifa is no different.
What happened yesterday in Boston was a moral panic the likes of which this region hasn’t seen since the Salem Witch Trials.
At this point, any media organization that cites SPLC is just trolling
   2768. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:39 PM (#5517580)
This is for the Canadians: I just got home from seeing Japandroids. That was their third show in Vienna and the third show I’ve seen and they keep getting better. They hung around after the show and were all around lovely people; and before that they played an amazing set, even though Brian’s voice is shot.


I saw these guys maybe 8 years ago, although it feels like yesterday. One of the loudest shows I've seen and the guys superbly energetic. They killed it.
   2769. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:43 PM (#5517581)
ICYMI, Andy, here's a piece about your beloved SPLC:
The SPLC reflexively plays down threats from the left. This February Mr. Potok wrote that in the 1990s “the American radical right” was “deprived of the bogeyman of communism.” Even when condemning far-left groups, the SPLC shows an odd deference. Describing black separatists, the SPLC avers that “much black racism in America is, at least in part, a response to centuries of white racism,” and “the racism of a group like the Nation [of Islam] may be relatively easy to understand.”

Kori Ali Muhammad allegedly murdered three white people in California in April. The SPLC reports that on Facebook Mr. Muhammad wrote of “grafted white devil skunks” and repeatedly referred to the mythical “Lost Found Asiaiatic [sic] Black Nation in America.” Yet in contrast with its unequivocal (and false) tagging of Mr. Murray, the group describes Mr. Muhammad as a “possible black separatist.”

The SPLC’s work arguably contributes to the climate of hate it abhors—and Middlebury isn’t the worst example. In 2012 Floyd Lee Corkins shot and wounded a security guard at the Family Research Council’s headquarters. Mr. Corkins, who pleaded guilty to domestic terrorism, told investigators he had targeted the group after learning of it from the SPLC’s website. The SPLC responded to the shooting with a statement: “We condemn all acts of violence.”

Last week the SPLC found itself in the awkward position of disavowing the man who opened fire on Republican members of Congress during baseball practice. “We’re aware that the SPLC was among hundreds of groups that the man identified as the shooter ‘liked’ on Facebook,” SPLC president Richard Cohen said in a statement. “I want to be as clear as I can possibly be: The SPLC condemns all forms of violence.”

Some journalists harbor doubts about the SPLC. “Any time a group like that is seen as partisan it undermines itself and its noble mission,” a network anchor told me on condition of anonymity. “Anti-LGBTQ bigotry is heinous, but classifying the Family Research Council in the same terms as Nazis did not help SPLC in its nonpartisan mission.”

Still, as long as journalists serve up what the SPLC dishes out, the group has little to gain by directly engaging its critics. (It did not respond to three inquiries for this article.) Now the GuideStar partnership may further burnish its credentials as an unbiased arbiter of hate.
   2770. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:43 PM (#5517582)
Jamie Kirchick is en fuego:


Where "en fuego" means "following the tired old (Grand Old) Party line," I gather.

Edit: I mean, if my end of the ideological spectrum gave aid & comfort, whether it specifically meant to or not, or at the very last safe haven, to neo-Nazis & their scummy ilk, I'd be desperate to handwave away their numbers, significance & even very existence, too. So there's that.
   2771. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:45 PM (#5517585)
If Kirchick were really en fuego, he'd already be in ICE custody and awaiting deportation.
   2772. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:46 PM (#5517586)
Ray, #2766:
Look, it's clear there's no point in bringing up any of the violence by the left, in any context or "tact." It simply is outside the bounds of discussion. It is only permissible to condemn Nazis, full stop. If you try to point out that non-Nazis committed violence too, you'll get branded a Nazi supporter, which really is not that much different from being a Nazi.

So I'm going to try to just stop engaging the rest of the argument and just agree with people that Nazis Are Bad And We're Not Allowed To Say Anything Else. You may consider this a concession offered. I don't agree with your argument, but I'm going to stop making mine.

Yawn.
   2773. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:47 PM (#5517587)
Speaking of odious partnerships...

Is Google Working with Liberal Groups to Snuff Out Conservative Websites?
Google revealed in a blog post that it is now using machine learning to document "hate crimes and events" in America. They've partnered with liberal groups like ProPublica, BuzzFeed News, and the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) to make information about "hate events" easily accessible to journalists. And now, there are troubling signs that this tool could be used to ferret out writers and websites that run afoul of the progressive orthodoxy. ...

On the surface, this looks rather innocuous. It's presented by Google as an attempt to create a database of hate crimes — information that should be available with a quick Google search, it should be noted. But a quick glance at the list of partners for this project should raise some red flags:

The ProPublica-led coalition includes The Google News Lab, Univision News, the New York Times, WNYC, BuzzFeed News, First Draft, Meedan, New America Media, The Root, Latino USA, The Advocate, 100 Days in Appalachia and Ushahidi. The coalition is also working with civil-rights groups such as the Southern Poverty Law Center, and schools such as the University of Miami School of Communications.

ProPublica poses as a middle-of-the-road non-profit journalistic operation, but in reality, it's funded by a stable of uber-liberal donors, including George Soros's Open Society Foundations and Herb and Marion Sandler, billionaire former mortgage bankers whose Golden West Financial Corp. allegedly targeted subprime borrowers with "pick-a-pay" mortgages that led to toxic assets that were blamed for the collapse of Wachovia. The Southern Poverty Law Center, of course, is infamous for targeting legitimate conservatives groups, branding them as "hate groups" because they refuse to walk in lockstep with the progressive agenda. And it goes with out saying that The New York Times and BuzzFeed News lean left. ...

ProPublica vows to diligently track "hate incidents" in the coming months. "Everyday people — not just avowed 'white nationalists' — intimidate, harass, humiliate and even harm their fellow Americans because of the color of their skin, how they worship or who they love." [Emphasis added] Note that they're not just focusing on hate "crimes."

It's easy enough to figure out the direction of this project by taking it for a test drive. A search for "Scalise" returned four results, one of which didn't even mention Steve Scalise, the congressman who was shot by a crazed leftist in June. A search for "Trump" during the same time period yielded more than 200 results. A search of the raw data resulted in 1178 hits for Trump and not a single mention of Scalise.
   2774. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:49 PM (#5517588)
Where "en fuego" means "following the tired old (Grand Old) Party line," I gather.

Edit: I mean, if my end of the ideological spectrum gave aid & comfort, whether it specifically meant to or not, to neo-Nazis & their scummy ilk, I'd be desperate to handwave away their numbers, significance & even very existence, too. So there's that.
Jamie is Jewish and gay. He's lived in Berlin and interviewed members of the far right. He's well aware of the threat actual Nazis pose.
   2775. Count Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:54 PM (#5517591)
Kirchick continues being an ass. Once again, there's no reason to think a significant percentage of people at the rallies were antifa or black block. My family and friends were there (a few of whom are genuine radicals but also not antifa or black block).
   2776. Count Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:56 PM (#5517593)
ProPublica has published some really good journalism, for what it's worth.
   2777. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:00 PM (#5517595)
Kirchick continues being an ass. Once again, there's no reason to think a significant percentage of people at the rallies were antifa or black block.
"Significant percentage." Apparently, zero percentage of the protestors were Nazis.
   2778. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:03 PM (#5517596)
More on this Google intitative:
The tool features a list of articles harvested from various, largely left-leaning websites, including HuffPost, BuzzFeed, Mic, Think Progress, and even pro-Antifa publication Unicorn Booty. It runs Google News stories and filters them through Google’s natural language analysis tools to confine the results to America.

High-profile conservative websites like Fox News have little to no presence on the tool.

According to TechCrunch, Google is using the project as a “starting point” for documenting and studying hate crimes. The publication claims that despite the fact that the FBI documents hate crimes, crimes committed at the local and state-level are overlooked because they “fail to report their own incidents, making the data incomplete at best.”

“The feed is generated from news articles that cover events suggestive of hate crime, bias or abuse — such as anti-semitic graffiti or local court reports about incidents,” says Gogle News Lab Data editor Simon Rogers. “And we are monitoring it to look out for errant stories that slip in, i.e., searches for phrases that just include the word ‘hate’ — it hasn’t happened yet but we will be paying close attention.”

There’s no word yet on how debunked hate crimes and hoaxes are filtered through the system.
   2779. Sebastian Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:06 PM (#5517597)
PF: they are still killing it. It's almost inconceivable that two people can be that good at anything – never mind tearing down the house.

Anyway, we, in our authoritarian backwater of no free speech, have the exact same angry youth problem as you do. But since our sports-clubs don’t move around the violence is contained. If team Nazi and team Auntie Fah is all you have, then that is that. Over here you can support Rangers and go for a lovely fight with St. Pauli supporters and we’ll all think that is fine.
   2780. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:07 PM (#5517598)
Jamie is Jewish and gay. He's lived in Berlin and interviewed members of the far right. He's well aware of the threat actual Nazis pose.


My nonexistent hat is off to him for that. But my assertion stands.
   2781. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:11 PM (#5517601)
Much more importantly, my beleaguered little feral (as opposed to Trump's beleaguered little AG) is home & resting in a spare bedroom, albeit surrounded on all sides by overflow vinyl & DVDs & tapes & comics & horror movie magazines. She's groggy as hell, understandably enough, & will have to wear a plastic cone around her head until her stitches are ready to come out in a couple of weeks. I'll be spraying a painkilling liquid onto her gums twice a day through, I guess, Wednesday.
   2782. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:13 PM (#5517603)
Much more importantly, my beleaguered little feral (as opposed to Trump's beleaguered little AG) is home & resting in a spare bedroom, albeit surrounded on all sides by overflow vinyl & DVDs & tapes & comics & horror movie magazines.
You're gonna be so devastated when you peek into the bedroom later and overhear her watching Jesse Watters.
   2783. spycake Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:17 PM (#5517605)
Look, it's clear there's no point in bringing up any of the violence by the left, in any context or "tact." It simply is outside the bounds of discussion.


The context of Trump's remarks was supposed to be his response to the death by vehicular attack of a peaceful protester. The events of Charlottesville really don't rise to the level of presidential comment otherwise. And it seems pretty inappropriate to keep bringing up lefty violence in that context, given the relative impact of any left violence from the past week.
   2784. Morty Causa Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:18 PM (#5517607)
2769:

I think there's something to this. Here and elsewhere, white violence on blacks is viewed as racism whereas black violence on whites is either excusable or understandable, and thus often mitigated to the point of justification almost. Or at least to the point where it is not characterized as a social pathology like it is if it's white on black.
   2785. Omineca Greg Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:24 PM (#5517612)
I had a friend (who has unfortunately rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible) who was really into the Japandroids, so whenever I think of them, I think of him.
   2786. Count Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:28 PM (#5517616)
2777. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:00 PM (#5517595)
Kirchick continues being an ass. Once again, there's no reason to think a significant percentage of people at the rallies were antifa or black block.
"Significant percentage." Apparently, zero percentage of the protestors were Nazis.


It continues to be telling that you and some people on the right (Kirchick, Trump, et al; and I know neither you nor Kirchick like Trump or the alt-right, which should make you pause to be aping them here) are focusing on "antifa"* instead of the vast majority of people at an anti-racism rally. My intuition is that this is a knee jerk reaction against left wing protest crowds but it's really misplaced here.

*edited to add: putting "antifa" in quotes not because they don't exist but because there has been a ridiculous conflation of various groups and protestors with antifa.

At a similar "free speech" rally in May, many of the attendees were members of the alt-right (the Nazis' fellow travelers in Charlottesville):
This Saturday's self-described free speech rally on Boston Common will be the second one held there this year. But its circumstances couldn't be more different from the first.

On May 13, a group of veterans, ex-police, Tea Party Republicans and young people affiliated with the self-described "alt-right" -- a conservative faction that mixes racism, white nationalism, anti-Semitism and populism -- gathered around the Common's historic Parkman Bandstand.

Organizers claimed that they were honoring their First Amendment right to assemble and express radical viewpoints. But the event felt more like a small, right-wing rally than a celebration of the Constitution.

Speakers like Augustus Invictus, a political activist from Florida, used their speaking time to encourage attendees to arm themselves for another civil war.

But that rally passed mostly unnoticed, attracting relatively small crowds: a few hundred at the rally and a slightly smaller crowd protesting it.
This weekend's rally has the same organizers and the same professed mission, but it will play out against a very different backdrop: the images of lethal violence and homegrown extremists carrying torches and automatic weapons in Charlottesville, Virginia.

In response, Boston Free Speech, the group behind both rallies, has announced hurried adjustments to Saturday's schedule. It has cancelled a planned march, the program has been shortened by several hours, and three of the four most controversial headliners -- including Invictus, who was also present at the Charlottesville rally -- have dropped out.

Event organizer John Medlar says he has invited left-wing speakers from groups like Black Lives Matter to take part -- without much success so far.

Back in May, a heavy police presence kept the demonstrations, for the most part, to a war of words. Members in both of the two crowds wielded bats and sticks, but the only rally participant to punch a counter-protester was promptly arrested and escorted from the scene.
Mostly, attendees shouted insults back and forth, both sides accusing one another's members of living in their mothers' basement. Meanwhile, Boston police officers stood, shoulder to shoulder and behind their bicycles, between the two groups.

Even after the changes to Saturday's rally, a much larger counter-protest is taking shape this time around. The organizers who first planned that protest were responding to the violence in Charlottesville, and weren't aware at first that the free speech rally was due to happen at the same time.

But owing to that coincidence, the protest has attracted a lot of interest on Facebook -- and organizer Monica Cannon estimates as many as 20,000 to 30,000 participants might attend.

Cannon's efforts have been helped along by familiar political organizations like Black Lives Matter and the Women's March.

Karen Clawson Cosmas, director of March Forward Massachusetts, a group that arose out of the January women's march, says the mood in the country has changed since that day in January. Then, she says, Boston Common filled with people protesting President Trump's "violent words" against women and ethnic minorities.

"It's different now. It is different," Clawson Cosmas says. Those words "have become violent actions."
As for what will happen Saturday, of course, no one knows. The counter-protest does look likely to dwarf the free speech rally. And Boston police, who were effective at containing violence last time, have signaled that they're taking this rally even more seriously -- using physical barriers and "neutral zones" to keep the two groups apart. And rally attendees won't be allowed to carry weapons as they did last time.

Medlar says the area around the Parkman Bandstand could feel a little like "a shark cage," given how large the counter-protest may be. But he says he's still looking forward to the event.

"Our goal is to have a fun and interesting time with a lot of interesting people, and ultimately we want to have a celebration of our constitutional values," he says.

But, Medlar says, his group trusts the Boston Police Department to keep the two crowds safe -- and separated from each other.


And of course the counter-protest this weekend was largely in response to the events in Charlottesville (hence the vastly larger crowd than the one in response to the rally in May).
   2787. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:43 PM (#5517624)
It continues to be telling that you and some people on the right (Kirchick, Trump, et al; and I know neither you nor Kirchick like Trump or the alt-right, which should make you pause to be aping them here) are focusing on "antifa"* instead of the vast majority of people at an anti-racism rally. My intuition is that this is a knee jerk reaction against left wing protest crowds but it's really misplaced here.
So if they're such a puny, unimportant minority, why not make it very clear the scumbags aren't invited and you'll work with law enforcement to identify them before they soil the reputations of others?
   2788. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:52 PM (#5517626)
You're gonna be so devastated when you peek into the bedroom later and overhear her watching Jesse Watters.


Well, it was the left eye she lost ...

Perhaps I should rename her Lisa Lopez. Too bad that artist was an utter idiot.
   2789. Count Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:56 PM (#5517628)
2787. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:43 PM (#5517624)
It continues to be telling that you and some people on the right (Kirchick, Trump, et al; and I know neither you nor Kirchick like Trump or the alt-right, which should make you pause to be aping them here) are focusing on "antifa"* instead of the vast majority of people at an anti-racism rally. My intuition is that this is a knee jerk reaction against left wing protest crowds but it's really misplaced here.
So if they're such a puny, unimportant minority, why not make it very clear the scumbags aren't invited and you'll work with law enforcement to identify them before they soil the reputations of others?


I've said here several times that I do not like them. They have been adequately condemned! You're moving your goalposts.

You can have a reasonable debate about antifa, and in that debate I would be largely on your side, since I do not believe in violently opposing speech and even if I did their tactics are very likely to backfire. But what you, Kirchick, and Trump are doing is focusing on antifa and pretending that they are the story of Charlottesville and Boston. They're not, and it is gross for your reaction to a large, almost entirely peaceful anti-racism rally to be concern about, as Trump put it, anti-police agitators.
   2790. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:56 PM (#5517629)
BTW, Quint would be so thrilled that the USS Indianapolis was found. He'd drink to our legs!
   2791. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5517630)
So if they're such a puny, unimportant minority, why not make it very clear the scumbags aren't invited and you'll work with law enforcement to identify them before they soil the reputations of others?


Same question applies to the neo-Nazis & alt-right ambulatory tumors, of course.
   2792. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:01 PM (#5517633)
BTW, Quint would be so thrilled that the USS Indianapolis was found. He'd drink to our legs!


I like destroyers that don't collide with merchant ships.
   2793. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:02 PM (#5517634)
I've said here several times that I do not like them. They have been adequately condemned! You're moving your goalposts.
And I've condemned all sorts of groups. So what? Don't let them march with peaceful protestors.
But what you, Kirchick, and Trump are doing is focusing on antifa and pretending that they are the story of Charlottesville and Boston. They're not, and it is gross for your reaction to a large, almost entirely peaceful anti-racism rally to be concern about, as Trump put it, anti-police agitators.
Kindly stop making #### up and attempting to lump me in with Trump. Thank you.
   2794. DavidFoss Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:04 PM (#5517635)
So if they're such a puny, unimportant minority, why not make it very clear the scumbags aren't invited and you'll work with law enforcement to identify them before they soil the reputations of others?


Sure, I don't want to see antifascists demonstrators if there aren't any fascists. I don't want that group to be 'pro' anything.

But the problem with what happened in Charlottesville is that partisan observers just instinctively root for the left and right sides. I think that's what got Trump in trouble. He couldn't stop rooting for the right even though in that case they were Nazis.

But if its just an Ann Coulter book signing or if no one has weapons and peaceful protestors have them outnumbered 1000-to-1 like in Boston, then antifa needs to stand down and get the heck out of there.
   2795. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:04 PM (#5517636)
I like destroyers that don't collide with merchant ships.
Why do the Asians so hate John McCain?

OK, see you folks after we collect a White Walker and show it to Queen Sammy.
   2796. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:06 PM (#5517637)
see you folks after we collect a White Walker and show it to Sammy.


I definitely do not want to know what this is a euphemism for.
   2797. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:06 PM (#5517638)
OK, see you folks after we collect a White Walker and show it to Sammy.


This plan is as dumb as Dorne.

Obviously, it won't end well ...
   2798. Howie Menckel Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:11 PM (#5517639)

776. Count Posted: August 20, 2017 at 07:56 PM (#5517593)
ProPublica has published some really good journalism, for what it's worth.

...............

YES
I would say with certainty a year ago that a claim that they were some "house organ" would be ridiculous, given some of the people that work there.
I still believe that, unless presented with contrary evidence in the time since that I just am not keeping up with anything not relevant to my job (in large part, in a good way).
   2799. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:21 PM (#5517641)
Speakers like Augustus Invictus, a political activist from Florida, used their speaking time to encourage attendees to arm themselves for another civil war.


Is that his given name?
   2800. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:29 PM (#5517642)
Speakers like Augustus Invictus, a political activist from Florida, used their speaking time to encourage attendees to arm themselves for another civil war.


Is that his given name?


"If you have Augustus Invictus, ask your doctor if Zorelto is right for you."
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