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Monday, August 14, 2017

OTP 14 August 2014: The American Pastimes of Rock ’n’ Roll, Baseball and Poetry

Maybe poetry and politics don’t mix. “I don’t want to get off into a whole thing about history here, but the Statue of Liberty is a symbol of American liberty lighting the world,” said Stephen Miller, a White House senior adviser, when he was challenged, recently, about the Trump administration’s proposal to restrict immigration. “The poem that you’re referring to was added later. It’s not actually part of the original Statue of Liberty.”

The poem, “The New Colossus,” was written by Emma Lazarus, who is being celebrated at the 92nd Street Y with works by 19 young poets inspired by her words. While the text wasn’t finally affixed to the base of the statue until 1903, the poem was commissioned in 1883 — three years before the statue opened — to raise money for the pedestal. Speaking of poems, more than 700 commercial, university and independent presses have contributed 3,000 items to the 2017 Poets House Showcase through Aug. 26 at Poets House in Battery Park City.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 14, 2017 at 07:18 AM | 3273 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: politics

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   2801. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:30 PM (#5517644)

Is that his given name?


"Gus Vic" to his friends.

"Vickie" to Milo Yiannopoulos (Greek, surely, for "please push me down a flight of stairs after setting me on fire").
   2802. DavidFoss Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:30 PM (#5517645)
Is that his given name?


No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Sol_Invictus

They're robbing him by dropping the 'Sol'. That's a key part of the Latin phrase! And relevant for eclipse week! Majestic Sun perhaps, but unconquered? Not tomorrow! :-)
   2803. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:44 PM (#5517649)
You alright?

I just got bit by a DEAD BEAR!
   2804. McCoy Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:51 PM (#5517651)
I wonder what they'll say when they get bit by a dead dragon?
   2805. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2017 at 09:56 PM (#5517653)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Sol_Invictus


Hahaha, holy ####. I love it when "celebrities" clearly curate their own wikipedia pages.
   2806. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:08 PM (#5517656)
Funny how your silly opinion of the SPLC isn't shared by many law enforcement agencies,

And a number of corporations jumped into bed with Jesse Jackson's Operation PUSH racket. So what?


Yes, Mr. (((Elliptical))), all those law enforcement agencies are just left wing dupes, as are all those media organizations who've used SPLC's information about hate groups and extremist groups. They're all part of the vast liberal conspiracy to demonize people like David Horowitz and Dan Stein.

ICYMI, Andy, here's a piece about your beloved SPLC:

Behind a pay wall, but that's okay. I got as far as the part about the poor Family Research Council, and how the SPLC has been so mean to it, before the article got cut off and I was invited to subscribe.

But as for your beloved Family Research Council, here are some of the "In Its Own Words" citations that SPLC gives on its FRC page to explain why it lists it under the category of "Extremist Groups":

“Family Research Council believes that homosexual conduct is harmful to the persons who engage in it and to society at large, and can never be affirmed. It is by definition unnatural, and as such is associated with negative physical and psychological health effects.”
– Family Research Council website, 2016

“The reality is, homosexuals have entered the Scouts in the past for predatory purposes.”
– FRC Vice President Rob Schwarzwalder, on radio’s “The Janet Mefferd Show,” Feb. 1, 2013.

“[H]omosexual activists vehemently reject the evidence which suggests that homosexual men … are … relative to their numbers, more likely to engage in such actions [childhood sexual abuse] than are heterosexual men.”
– Peter Sprigg, Senior Fellow for Policy Studies at FRC, on why the Boy Scouts should not allow LGBT Scouts or leaders, FRC blog, February 1, 2013.

“The videos are titled 'It Gets Better.' They are aimed at persuading kids that although they'll face struggles and perhaps bullying for 'coming out' as homosexual (or transgendered or some other perversion), life will get better. …It's disgusting. And it's part of a concerted effort to persuade kids that homosexuality is okay and actually to recruit them into that lifestyle."
— Tony Perkins, FRC fundraising letter, August 2011

"Those who understand the homosexual community—the activists—they're very aggressive, they're—everything they accuse us of they are in triplicate. They're intolerant, they're hateful, vile, they're spiteful. .... To me, that is the height of hatred, to be silent when we know there are individuals that are engaged in activity, behavior, and an agenda that will destroy them and our nation."
—Tony Perkins, Speaking to the Oak Initiative Summit, April 2011

"We believe the evidence shows … that relative to the size of their population, homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are heterosexual men."
— Peter Sprigg, "Debating Homosexuality: Understanding Two Views." 2011.

“While activists like to claim that pedophilia is a completely distinct orientation from homosexuality, evidence shows a disproportionate overlap between the two. … It is a homosexual problem.”
— FRC President Tony Perkins, FRC website, 2010

“[W]elcoming open homosexuality in the military would clearly damage the readiness and effectiveness of the force – in part because it would increase the already serious problem of homosexual assault in the military.”
— Peter Sprigg, “Homosexual Assault in the Military," 2010

"A little-reported fact is that homosexual and lesbian relationships are far more violent than are traditional married households."
—Timothy Dailey, FRC publication, "Homosexual Parenting: Placing Children at Risk," 2002

“Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement.”
— Robert Knight, FRC director of cultural studies, and Frank York, 1999

“[Homosexuality] … embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion.”
— Steven Schwalm, FRC senior writer and analyst, in “Desecrating Corpus Christi,” 1999

"One of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order."
—1999 FRC publication, "Homosexual Behavior and Pedophilia," Robert Knight and Frank York


Feel free to defend these loathsome bigots if you will. But I'm sure you'll say that there are many fine people who associate themselves with it----like your non-despicable president and other misunderstood Republican politicians.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

But what you, Kirchick, and Trump are doing is focusing on antifa and pretending that they are the story of Charlottesville and Boston. They're not, and it is gross for your reaction to a large, almost entirely peaceful anti-racism rally to be concern about, as Trump put it, anti-police agitators.

Kindly stop making #### up and attempting to lump me in with Trump. Thank you.

But you still can't bring yourself to label Trump a despicable person. Once again: WHY?
   2807. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:14 PM (#5517658)
SPOILER ALERT
SPOILER ALERT
SPOILER ALERT

Did I mention?
SPOILER ALERT

How cute: A blue-eyed dragon.
   2808. Covfefe Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:18 PM (#5517660)
Meh. Did not care for it.
   2809. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:21 PM (#5517661)
When do we get to the fireworks factory?
   2810. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:21 PM (#5517662)
Obviously, it won't end well ...
Queen Sammy believes in awful beer, not the undead.
   2811. Covfefe Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:26 PM (#5517663)
I got the dragon wrong, but got the human right....
   2812. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:27 PM (#5517664)
Re: #2790, how freaky that for a moment tonight we thought that Tormund might end up like Quint?
   2813. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:29 PM (#5517665)
I got the dragon wrong, but got the human right....
If anyone's to blame for how things went down, it's the Hound for being bored.
   2814. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:35 PM (#5517666)
Not yet on the Times website, but scheduled to run tomorrow. No link available, so quoted in full:

Race/Related: An Unexpected Chat With a Racist
CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. – I grew up in a Queens neighborhood that was once notorious for mostly two things: racists and the mob (O.K., and the pizza).
So I’ve been talking to racists all my life. At least I thought I had.

Then last week I called the white supremacist Richard Spencer and got schooled on white power. Mr. Spencer is the head of the National Policy Institute, a man the Southern Poverty Law Center calls one of the country’s most successful young white nationalist leaders, “a kind of professional racist in khakis.”

I called Mr. Spencer to get a comment on the lawsuit filed against him by two sisters in Charlottesville, Va., who were injured last weekend when a man attending a white nationalist rally in support of a Confederate statue here rammed the back of their Toyota, killing Heather Heyer, 32. I expected to get his voicemail.

But he answered the phone.

Suddenly, I realized: I didn’t even know where to begin with a guy like that. So after dispensing of news items like the lawsuit and his quest to speak at public universities, I said the most honest thing that came to mind: “What is this all this about?”

“I want to change the world,” Mr. Spencer said. “I want to change people’s hearts and minds, changing how they think, how they speak. It’s about changing the conversation, about who we are.”
He acknowledged that his fame and fortune skyrocketed along with the rise of the President Trump.

“I am not obviously in it for the money, but, yeah, we have been able to raise six figures pretty consistently year over year,” he said. “Fund-raising has increased this year. There’s so much notoriety and feeling that we are breaking through.

“Clearly, we rose with Donald Trump. Why and exactly how that happened, that’s the tricky part to explain. I have come a long way personally in terms of recognition in the past two years. ‘Alt-right’ is a household term. Richard Spencer has become a household term. That’s not where I was in 2014, even though I’ve been doing this for a decade.”

He continued: “Donald Trump and the so-called ‘alt-right’ are both symptoms of the same cause,” Mr. Spencer said, “the demographic displacement of white people. The dispossession of whites.”
This thing about white people being uniquely evil and white people in power is especially bad has to end, he said.

I thought: What? Dispossession of white people? Dispossess, to “deprive (someone) of land, property, or other possessions?”

When I am doing interviews, I don’t usually remember to write down what my question was. But I’m pretty sure this is where I said: “What are you talking about?”

I told him: “The Senate is full of white men. Corporate America. Heck, let’s admit it, even The New York Times!”

He replied: “Many of those white people are Jewish at The New York Times, it’s worth pointing out.”

Is it?

He politely asked my background. (Regular middle-class Hispanic, I answered.)

He went on to explain that he prefers ethnically-based immigration to bring in white people, because, after all, this is a white country. But by that logic, wouldn’t we only admit indigenous Indians?

“I agree with you: Native Americans should have fought harder,” Mr. Spencer said. “They should have fought with more viciousness and brutality. But they lost, and people like me won.

“My people won, and therefore, this is ours.” (This is where I wish I had remembered to point out that the Confederates lost, too.)

But instead I said that the battle is still going on, and my people want some of this country back, and what’s so wrong with that? It’s good, he said, that I admit that “this is a battle.”
“I recognize that this is going to be a struggle and we have to understand it in those terms,” he said. “I don’t care about fairness. Who cares?”.

Actually, Mr. Spencer, I think a lot of people do, maybe even those in my old neighborhood.
   2815. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:40 PM (#5517669)
If the Nazi threat is so minuscule, why does your president have such a hard time categorically denouncing it?

There's a difference between Nazi scumbags and the alt-Right movement. The latter has odious views but are physically harmless.
While I think that's literally true, I think it's misleading. In any movement, most people are going to be lazy and only a small minority will actually take action. So, yeah, most alt-righters are physically harmless because it's a lot easier to type racist screeds from one's mother's basement than to go out and commit acts of violence. But the alt-righters provide aid and comfort to the Nazis/Klansmen who are willing to act out violently.
   2816. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:42 PM (#5517671)
Violence against neo-confederates and bigots and most of the deplorables is to be condemned. But on actual neo-Nazis - like, people that would put Jews and minorities to death if they could - I've got an open mind. At some point a tolerant society needs to draw the line. I don't know where that point is, maybe it's nowhere near where we are now, but it's somewhere. And some people really do deserve a smack upside the head.
The line is simple: when they act. Or at least make specific concrete plans to act. As long as it's just talk, the fact that they hypothetically would be violent if they had the chance is grounds for surveillance, not violence.
   2817. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:46 PM (#5517672)
If anyone's to blame for how things went down, it's the Hound for being bored.


If anyone's to blame for how things went down, it's the writers for being awful.

Like I said, dumb as Dorne.
   2818. Howie Menckel Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:48 PM (#5517673)

"I expected to get his voicemail.

But he answered the phone.

Suddenly, I realized: I didn’t even know where to begin with a guy like that."

............

WOW
reporter just failed Journalism 101
   2819. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:49 PM (#5517674)
Thanks to Benny Johnson for finding and posting this photo.

+1
   2820. McCoy Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:50 PM (#5517676)
It's all so pointless. Why in the effing world do the magnificent 7 need to sail from Dragonstone to beyond the wall if a freaken dragon can do it in a couple of hours? Why doesn't Dany and Jon just fly up north and snatch up an undead person?

Then on top of that somehow Gendry pulls a Marathon and gets back to the wall in no time at all and a freakin raven gets all the way to Dragonstone in no time at all as well. Just all so pointless and dumb.

Why in the world does the Night King have giant javelins just lying around? Why does everybody forget the dead dragon in the lake? Why completely fly away from the horde when you can just fry them all in one fell swoop? Why did Dany even agree to worry about the North and why would anyone think Cersei is going to see light? What in the world is going on in Winterfell? How are they all so incredibly blind to the machinations of Littlefinger? Just stupid all the way around.
   2821. Omineca Greg Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:54 PM (#5517678)
That Augustus Sol Invictus fella has the worst case of backpfeifengesicht I've ever seen.
   2822. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:54 PM (#5517679)
While I think that's literally true, I think it's misleading. In any movement, most people are going to be lazy and only a small minority will actually take action. So, yeah, most alt-righters are physically harmless because it's a lot easier to type racist screeds from one's mother's basement than to go out and commit acts of violence. But the alt-righters provide aid and comfort to the Nazis/Klansmen who are willing to act out violently.
We don't disagree here.
   2823. Covfefe Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:57 PM (#5517680)
The winterfell shenanigans better be a friggin LF setup.... it's one thing to teleport and make dumb decisions to create drama. It's another to spend 7 seasons developing characters and then suddenly go back being as naive and addled as they were in the first couple episodes.

   2824. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 10:59 PM (#5517681)
So does a blue-eyed dragon shoot ice or fire?
   2825. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:02 PM (#5517682)
What's unfortunate is that MSM *still* considers SPLC a fair arbiter of what is and isn't hate, not a left-wing interest group.

Funny how your silly opinion of the SPLC isn't shared by many law enforcement agencies,
And you base that claim on what, Andy? A validly-designed survey of law enforcement agencies? Or just your Pauline-esqe approach to current events?
   2826. McCoy Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:02 PM (#5517683)
I just don't think these books are going to end well. I'd say it has been in decline for a long time but that's just because it has taken like 20 years to write the last two books.
   2827. McCoy Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:04 PM (#5517684)
And can we all just agree on just how stupid and tired of a movie cliche it is for the killswitch to be killing the main vampire and you kill them all?

Oh, there's hundreds of thousands of killing badasses out there? No problem. We'll just kill this one guy and they'll all die.
   2828. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:06 PM (#5517685)
but that's just because it has taken like 20 years to write the last two books.


Probably because GRR is desperately trying to come up with something better than this half-witted slop ...

   2829. McCoy Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:12 PM (#5517686)
I was reading something the other day about plots and characters and how in this era of peak TV plot basically exists to get develop and showcase characters. Unfortunately GoT is a plot heavy show with outside of Tyrion and Brienne's beaux (in terms of left around) a severe lack of interesting characters or desire to develop some. And because it is a plot heavy show it needs to be written well but instead we get this junk where stuff happens largely because the writers have decided to have something happen. It's like The Walking Dead all over again where the show can only function because the characters keep doing the same stupid things over and over again.
   2830. Covfefe Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:13 PM (#5517687)
Well, it was always about this unstoppable army of magic dead... the medieval crusader kings intrigue was always just interlude.
   2831. Covfefe Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:14 PM (#5517688)
GoT did manage to hold my interest about 3-4 seasons longer than TWD
   2832. McCoy Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:17 PM (#5517689)
Oh geez, totally forgot about the arrival of Coldhands. How stupid of a copout was that?
   2833. McCoy Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:21 PM (#5517690)
Yeah, I dropped out of TWD before the start of this season. It just got so tedious and dull. GoT can still be exciting but the actual story itself has become beyond stupid. I mean Tyrion has a point. You came here asking for help, offering basically nothing in return, and you don't even have a plan or line of action Dany should take. That's just lazy writing. Forget how everybody on the planet should realize that Dragonstone has dragon glass for a moment and just focus on how effed up the writing situation is when you've send Jon Snow off blindly to the south on a wing and a prayer.
   2834. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:25 PM (#5517692)
No link available, so quoted in full:

LOL. You don't have enough money to repay what you owe them.
   2835. Covfefe Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:25 PM (#5517693)
At least rick and Morty is still awesome.
   2836. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:28 PM (#5517694)
WOW
reporter just failed Journalism 101

He works for NYT, doesn't he?
   2837. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:30 PM (#5517696)
Oh geez, totally forgot about the arrival of Coldhands. How stupid of a copout was that?


About as shitty as Jon being dragged down into the deep by multiple wights and then miraculously coming back up to the surface ... like that wasn't already a lame joke when they pulled it off with Jaime, JUST ONE EPISODE AGO!

Strewth ...

   2838. Jay Z Posted: August 20, 2017 at 11:39 PM (#5517698)
“I agree with you: Native Americans should have fought harder,” Mr. Spencer said. “They should have fought with more viciousness and brutality. But they lost, and people like me won.

“My people won, and therefore, this is ours.” (This is where I wish I had remembered to point out that the Confederates lost, too.)


We stole it fair 'n' square, eh?

I guess this makes the blacks look pretty good. Defended their homeland, Africa, and own a piece of America as well now. Jews couldn't defend their homeland, nor Native Americans. </sarcasm>
   2839. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 12:00 AM (#5517700)
Apparently it's an off night all the way around.
   2840. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 21, 2017 at 12:00 AM (#5517701)
So does a blue-eyed dragon shoot ice or fire?


I spent two weeks in a Thai whorehouse, so trust me when I tell you: it's definitely fire.
   2841. Srul Itza At Home Posted: August 21, 2017 at 12:04 AM (#5517702)
Why do the Asians so hate John McCain?


There are still 10 sailors missing and unaccounted for, so let's hold off on the jokes a little.

#HonoluluisaNavyTown
   2842. tshipman Posted: August 21, 2017 at 01:18 AM (#5517705)
The deus ex machina & teleportation crap is really getting out of hand.
   2843. Sebastian Posted: August 21, 2017 at 01:53 AM (#5517706)
“Where did you find that letter?”
“In Littlefinger’s room.”
“OMG, that bastard. I love you!”
“I love you too!”

Would that have been so hard? Menacing Maisie is the best, though, so I guess I have to let it slide. I am fully rooting for the sun rising in the west (as long as the father is a close relative). I want those two kids to make their own mad king.
   2844. manchestermets Posted: August 21, 2017 at 04:56 AM (#5517708)
For what it's worth, Breitbart also believes that CNN was attempting to "normalize" Antifa


Well, Breitbart has trouble distinguishing between international soccer players and people smugglers, so it's probably not worth a lot.
   2845. Greg K Posted: August 21, 2017 at 07:20 AM (#5517715)
And can we all just agree on just how stupid and tired of a movie cliche it is for the killswitch to be killing the main vampire and you kill them all?

Oh, there's hundreds of thousands of killing badasses out there? No problem. We'll just kill this one guy and they'll all die.

Tyrion says pretty much the same thing to Dany, although in the dead army's case it's a bit more literal. In Dany's case the Dothraki wouldn't disappear, they'd just turn into a giant, undirected pillage-fest.

The only part that bothered me was Benjen. Seemed awfully unnecessary...but I guess we haven't had a potential drowning fake-out in a while.

I quite liked the Arya-Sansa stuff. But then again I was never buying that whole "Arya has a chance to be a well-adjusted human" gambit. She's thoroughly deranged by her need for revenge, and frankly I find her turning homicidal on her sister far more plausible than her being able to function in any kind of social relationship.
   2846. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 21, 2017 at 07:22 AM (#5517717)
Where did the white walkers come up with 4 enormous chains to drag him out of the lake?

Why was the lake not fully frozen in the coldest part of the world in winter?
   2847. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: August 21, 2017 at 07:27 AM (#5517718)
The only part that bothered me was Benjen. Seemed awfully unnecessary...
This was my problem too. They manufactured an insta-crisis, and then immediately resolved it in a ridiculous way that seems to have done away with one of the more potentially interesting wildcard figures floating around out there.

This episode pointed out the insane compression of this season more than any other. A journey north of the wall by that gang would've been a good multipart epic trudge, and in the first four or five seasons it would've been. But now it's relegated to 3/4 of one episode.
   2848. manchestermets Posted: August 21, 2017 at 07:36 AM (#5517719)
I've not gone back and checked, but at the end of the previous episode it was just the named characters walking north from Eastwatch I think. So where did all the redshirts come from?
   2849. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: August 21, 2017 at 07:38 AM (#5517720)
I would've liked a side series, maybe a cartoon series or something, about the goings on in the Riverlands over the last however many years. It's the one part of Westeros where the old civil war never really ended, it's chaotic, but there's still enough normal life that a guy like Hot Pie can hold a job at a busy travelers' inn. It also seems to be the agricultural heart of the continent, at least in the books. It borders five or six of the Seven Kingdoms -- any spy or raiding party or diplomatic mission going from one to another is likely to go through the Riverlands, so there should never be a dull moment.
   2850. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: August 21, 2017 at 08:28 AM (#5517727)
Why was the lake not fully frozen in the coldest part of the world in winter?
As we speak, Al Gore's busy working on "An Inconvenient Long Night."
   2851. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 21, 2017 at 08:39 AM (#5517729)
Why was the lake not fully frozen in the coldest part of the world in winter?
As we speak, Al Gore's busy working on "An Inconvenient Long Night."


That might bore the White Walkers to death.
   2852. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 21, 2017 at 08:39 AM (#5517730)
About as shitty as Jon being dragged down into the deep by multiple wights and then miraculously coming back up to the surface ... like that wasn't already a lame joke when they pulled it off with Jaime, JUST ONE EPISODE AGO!


Swimming with 60lb of wet freezing fur wrapped around him.

I know it's hard to get too worked about about the verisimilitude of a show with dragons and undead and all that, but a little acknowledgement of reality could be a nice thing. I could more easily accept Sam never losing weight despite a steady diet of Bowl of Brown if I wasn't also forced to accept Jon Snow swimming in freezing waters while wearing 60lb of wet fur all over his entire body. I was a competitive swimmer for years, and in the process of goofing off found out to my surprise that it is damn hard to swim just wearing jeans and sneakers.

In fact pretty much anything having to do with swimming in GoT is obnoxious, starting with Arya getting gut-stabbed and saving herself by swimming through a sewage canal in the middle of Braavos.
   2853. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 08:59 AM (#5517732)
So apparently, the writers have an excuse for stuff like Cold Benjen and Jon just staying quiet and letting placeholder dialogue like "There's no time!" (Waits while there's time) slip into the broadcast... they were struggling mightily with massive rewrites of Jon and Dany's end sequence.

A draft of that original has been leaked --

JON SNOW: I'm so, so sorry Dany - can I call you Dany, like my uncle/your brother used to? Wait - no, I forgot that we told the audience that and then reminded them again a few episodes ago (with legitimacy!) but we still need to have some hot aunt-nephew sex. But still, I'm so, so sorry we went off to hunt the wild McGuffin. Still, it was Tyrion's idea if you remember. He's clever and thought that if we gave everyone enough Hound and Tormund talking dicks - I mean, we killed off Dickon, so gotta keep that thing going somehow because there are so few Johnsons in Westeros. Plus, Gendry - remember when I mentioned how he took the gold in the 304 AC Bastard Games marathon? It was in between Jorah giving me his symbolic blessing to bed you, Tormund giving Jorah symbolic forgiveness for being Jeor's son, the Hound making symbolic peace with Thoros for saving his symbolic life, and Beric making the Grand Symbolic Point.

DAENYRYS: No, it's OK my beloved nephew - wait, I my rebellious King of the North. If you hadn't gone after the McGuffin, people might be wondering why I didn't just zip off to the north with Drogon to begin with to see this army of the dead, which I can do, as you now well know. Plus, people kept interrupting when I asked about your stabs in the heart so this was clearly the best way to resolve that. And without the McGuffin that we artfully kept showing being dragged along, stuck on the Drogon's spines, etc, how would I have lost a dragon?

JON SNOW: Maybe you're right, my fire princess. We were running the risk of turning Cold Benjen into poochie, so it also provided us the opportunity to kill him off - I mean, if you're gonna make a muddle, might as well stuff some other character resolutions into it, right? But how about that Night King, amiright? Good thing your dragons didn't just roast him and his whole high command while they were there, right? They circled the tiny rock three times over burning and melting and since Beric gave us the Head Vampire Theory, I was worried they might catch onto that.

DAENYRYS: Yes, it was all for the best. At least kept you out of the north, where your little assassin sister who managed to play cup bearer for the cleverest man in westeros, get her PhD in Faceless Manism, has a see everything emo Bran around, and wipe out the entire Frey family is being manipulated in circles by a two-bit brothel keeper.

(HOLDING HANDS) McGuffin!
   2854. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:01 AM (#5517733)
Mmmmmmm.....McMuffin.....
   2855. Hot Wheeling American Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:04 AM (#5517734)
Your morning Benny Johnson fix:

Alleged Boston Antifa Thanks Hillary Clinton, Democrats for Their Support as They Burn American Flag

Wait a second...did professional political writer Benny Johnson get this one wrong? Who's to say?

It would certainly be newsworthy if Hillary Clinton or members of the Democratic Party had shown support for these messages. The trouble is, @AntifaBoston is one of several well-known Antifa parody accounts meant to discredit and troll anti-fascist activists. It was one of these parody accounts that was responsible for the rumor that Antifa members had desecrated military cemeteries on Memorial Day.

The account Johnson cited, @AntifaBoston, is a clear parody account. It follows the Twitter accounts of right-wing provocateur Cassandra Fairbanks, alt-right media group The Red Elephants, and ex-Rebel Media personality Gavin McInnes, as well as explicitly white supremacist accounts like Third Position and WhiteIdentityPolitix.

In other words, Johnson didn’t reach out to the person(s) operating the @AntifaBoston account to try and confirm that it was genuine, never looked for signs that it could be a fake, and apparently wasn’t aware of the multitude of fake Antifa Twitter accounts, including Vermont Antifa, Laguna Beach Antifa (account suspended), Guam Antifa, Gulfport-FL Antifa, and 405 Antifa.

I suppose that’s par for the course when you’re a writer who was canned by BuzzFeed for serial plagiarism before miraculously being hired by IJR only to get demoted for violating company standards.

Johnson’s lazily researched article currently carries the following editor’s note:

After people questioned the legitimacy of the Twitter account, Independent Journal Review reached out for verification of the authenticity of the group. In an automated response, the group said: “Thank you for contacting the official page for the Antifa organization in the Boston area.” We will update this article as needed.

Of course, posing as Antifa activists to discredit them is nothing new for the alt-right. Inflammatory fliers denouncing the “white man” and “their Heeb masters” were attributed to an Antifa organization — National Antifa Front — which doesn’t exist.
   2856. McCoy Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:05 AM (#5517736)
In the previous episode they do indeed show the magnificent 7 walking out with a baggy train full of red shirts.
   2857. McCoy Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:06 AM (#5517737)
So you want to capture a wight in the north but you don't think to bring horses? What great leaders we have.
   2858. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:07 AM (#5517739)


Swimming with 60lb of wet freezing fur wrapped around him.


Or swimming with armor, with one hand missing?
   2859. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:08 AM (#5517740)
Yeah, this is the season where we jettison plot armor and embrace plot SCUBA.

And it wasn't even "one hand missing", it's lugging along a solid gold hand, probably 15lb of dense lead where a paddle-hand should be. And swimming hundreds of yards under water. Over the course of an hour or so I guess.
   2860. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:08 AM (#5517741)
When are we gonna discuss General Hospital:

Will old Jason replace new Jason in Sam's life?
   2861. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:09 AM (#5517742)
So you want to capture a wight in the north but you don't think to bring horses? What great leaders we have.


Speak for yourself... I'm defecting to team Euron because thus far, he seems to be the only guy who knows what he's doing. Even he brought a horse.
   2862. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:11 AM (#5517743)
And it wasn't even "one hand missing", it's lugging along a solid gold hand, probably 15lb of dense lead where a paddle-hand should be. And swimming hundreds of yards under water. Over the course of an hour or so I guess.


You don't become Ser Bronn of the Blackwater without being one hell of a lifeguard.
   2863. Rockwell Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:11 AM (#5517744)
And some people really do deserve a smack upside the head.


Still missing the point that even if this is true, it doesn't follow that a single unrepresentative political faction gets to decide who gets to be smacked. Auntie Fah has already been violent to far more people than actual Nazis.

   2864. Lassus Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:12 AM (#5517745)
I love watching everyone in the thread turn into this guy.
   2865. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:14 AM (#5517746)
DJS?
   2866. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:15 AM (#5517748)
Will he come back into Sam’s life as a romantic interest? Is he someone they know? Is there a way this might work for them that we can’t see just yet? Is there a chance we might get to see a lot more than we think we might see? Is there any way this will play out differently than we imagined? What is going to happen, and what do fans want? We hear a lot of fans want to see him get back together with Sam. We hear they have such a good chemistry people want it.

But what about Jason right now? What happens to him if this all goes down? Will he face a long life of being all alone, or will we get to see some seriously exciting stuff go down? We don’t know, but we do know we are excited about almost all of it.
   2867. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:15 AM (#5517749)
I love watching everyone in the thread turn into this guy.


I feel more like THIS.

JUST TAKE IT! COME ON!
   2868. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:17 AM (#5517750)
I feel more like THIS.

JUST TAKE IT! COME ON!


I thought the redshirts were DUE!
   2869. Rockwell Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:20 AM (#5517755)
“I want to change the world,” Mr. Spencer said.


Yeah, well ... good luck with all that.

Clearly, we rose with Donald Trump. Why and exactly how that happened, that’s the tricky part to explain.


That's because you're a stupid dullard. You "rose" because once Donald Trump came along, lefties and media outlets like the NYT started obsessing about you, and giving you free publicity, when before they and everybody else paid zero attention to your stupid, racist ass.
   2870. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:33 AM (#5517760)
The season was fine - great, even - right up until the start of episode 5...

I mean, instead of McGuffin hunting -- how about if Drogon just fishes Jamie out of the Blackwater and having Jamie captive makes for a reason to Cersei to come to the table? And how about if Sam convinces Jorah about the army of the dead and Dany, who trusts Jorah again, then believes Jorah? Or - maybe you let the White Walkers borrow the teleporter and actually attack Eastwatch (or heck, don't even give them the teleporter... just don't saddle them with the reverse teleporter that keeps them marching in place all season) and Ice Dragon comes to pass when Dany answers a raven to help a besieged Wall like Stannis?

There are a bazillion better ways with less silliness that could have set the pieces in the exact same place they are now set to be for the finale.
   2871. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:38 AM (#5517762)
“I want to change the world,”

Said every activist, ever.
   2872. Rockwell Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:42 AM (#5517763)
Why didn't Dany just take her dragons and a small detachment from Meereen and smash all the other armies five or six seasons ago? It's not as though the dragons really need any infantry support.

When you add that to the ending of Season 6, I think we can safely say that some of the rulers' enemies are getting dispatched too easily.
   2873. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5517766)
“I want to change the world,”

Said every activist, ever.


I see no difference between Thomas Paine, Susan B Anthony, Martin Luther King, Harvey Milk, Mahatma Gandhi, or Elie Wiesel and Richard Spencer said every Perros ever.
   2874. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:49 AM (#5517768)
I see no difference

Eye of the beholder. Once society accepts racial activism as good, you'll get copycats.
   2875. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:50 AM (#5517769)
Why didn't Dany just take her dragons and a small detachment from Meereen and smash all the other armies five or six seasons ago? It's not as though the dragons really need any infantry support.

When you add that to the ending of Season 6, I think we can safely say that some of the rulers' enemies are getting dispatched too easily.


Because they've gone CGI nuts... Cheapen a few big money scenes giving you the budget to stretch out the season to 8 or 9 episodes, suddenly, you can do with a lot less teleportation, a lot less deus ex machina and voila... but then, you'd have to write dialogue and think a little more about plot, I guess.
   2876. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:51 AM (#5517771)
Eye of the beholder


You're quite something to behold... no one disputes that.
   2877. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:53 AM (#5517772)
I want to change the world,”

Said every activist, ever.


Not Billy Bragg though. He is just looking for another girl.
   2878. Hot Wheeling American Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:55 AM (#5517773)
President Trump, head of The Yankee Clapper's political movement, responds to the horrible news of a collision between a U.S. Navy warship and a tanker:

'That's too bad'
   2879. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 09:58 AM (#5517777)
Spencer isnt like the old guard promoting superiority. He's playing upon grievance, which is what works like magic now.

Ten years back I would try to discuss thr persistence of racism and get shot down every time. Ray's position was the bbtf standard. Hell, we still have participants who argued Mel Hall was just breaking the girl in. A lot of people left because it was so reactionary, thus a special otp thread to fence you monkeys in.

The pendulum has swung is all.
   2880. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:00 AM (#5517778)
President Trump, head of The Yankee Clapper's political movement, responds to the horrible news of a collision between a U.S. Navy warship and a tanker:


Meh, it's already well-established that Trump is incapable of reacting to anything - I think the more interesting part is that Breitbart/Bannon is using it as another cudgel against McMaster (i.e., McMaster didn't inform Trump about it and keeps setting Trump up).

EDIT: Though interesting would be a poor choice of words, too -- I also have to ask... what is going on with the USN? I know it's not the first time navigational issues have been a problem - Halsey's biggest WWII defeat was handed to him by a typhoon - but it just seems awfully bad that two Navy ships suffer collisions over the space of two months that both appear to tragically involve casualties.
   2881. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:02 AM (#5517780)
Another thing that irked me was the fight right around when Thoros gets bitten. So he's struggling with the bear for several seconds. The Hound is out of it because of the fire thing. Jon Snow got knocked down at the very beginning of the fight; maybe he has the wind knocked out of him. Tormund gives the bear a whack and gets knocked down. This leaves Dondarrion, Jorah, Gendry, and any number of Wildling cannon fodder on their feet and ready for action. I just checked, and 17 seconds elapsed from when Thoros jumps in front of the bear until the point when the bear actually bites him. He's then in its clutches for another 13 seconds, until Jorah finally comes up and stabs the bear in the head with his dagger. So in 30 seconds they managed one whack with an axe, when all they had to do was run up to the bear and stab it in the head. When you have multiple experienced fighters around a lone opponent, they're going to leap into the attack as soon as they see the opponent concentrate on one of their number. The idea that they'd get off one swing in 30 seconds is ridiculous.
   2882. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:03 AM (#5517782)
You're the monkey. You're the monkey.
   2883. Rockwell Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:08 AM (#5517783)
As to Japandroids, yeah, awesome band. Evil Sway is easily in my top 10 favorite songs of the 2010s. Celebration Rock is tremendous, virtually from start to finish.
   2884. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:10 AM (#5517785)
Spencer isnt like the old guard promoting superiority. He's playing upon grievance, which is what works like magic now.


Is that why you're so willing to embrace white nationalism now?
   2885. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:10 AM (#5517786)
Another thing that irked me was the fight right around when Thoros gets bitten. So he's struggling with the bear for several seconds. The Hound is out of it because of the fire thing. Jon Snow got knocked down at the very beginning of the fight; maybe he has the wind knocked out of him. Tormund gives the bear a whack and gets knocked down. This leaves Dondarrion, Jorah, Gendry, and any number of Wildling cannon fodder on their feet and ready for action. I just checked, and 17 seconds elapsed from when Thoros jumps in front of the bear until the point when the bear actually bites him. He's then in its clutches for another 13 seconds, until Jorah finally comes up and stabs the bear in the head with his dagger. So in 30 seconds they managed one whack with an axe, when all they had to do was run up to the bear and stab it in the head. When you have multiple experienced fighters around a lone opponent, they're going to leap into the attack as soon as they see the opponent concentrate on one of their number. The idea that they'd get off one swing in 30 seconds is ridiculous.


Well, they also made it appear that there were two bears... or the bear got to borrow the short distance teleporter now that Bronn and Jamie were done with it. That whole scene was muddled... the poor redshirt is running away, everyone just draws their swords and waits after spotting the bear and noticing that hey - it's a wight bear - and the redshirt gets eaten by the same bear that managed to get him from the side?

How about if the bear just jumps out of the blizzard and mauls a redshirt? And how about if they notice it's a wight bear when stabbing it has no effect?

It must have been take your kid to work day filming that episode "Daddy's gotta work on the CGI dragons... why don't you take the Magnificent 7 and direct the bear attack?"
   2886. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:14 AM (#5517787)
The Night King's armies are so slow to march to the Wall because they're dragging around 16 tons of anchor chain with them, just in case they need to fish a dragon out of a lake.
   2887. GordonShumway Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:18 AM (#5517789)
Spencer isnt like the old guard promoting superiority. He's playing upon grievance, which is what works like magic now.

Ten years back I would try to discuss thr persistence of racism and get shot down every time. Ray's position was the bbtf standard. Hell, we still have participants who argued Mel Hall was just breaking the girl in. A lot of people left because it was so reactionary, thus a special otp thread to fence you monkeys in.

The pendulum has swung is all.


Ummm, maybe I'm reading the history incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure that the old guard was playing upon grievance too...
   2888. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:20 AM (#5517791)
Actually, I'm just squaring my views with Sam's uncomfortable truths. There's no universal morality, there's merely social pressure ultimately backed by violence. Any arguments I've made against war and torture have fallen on deaf ears becaise everyone tacitly agrees with that truth, and why there's little condemnation and even celebration of antifa violence. Punching someone in the mouth, doxing them, getting them fired -- all are effective imtimidatiom that at least drives the racists back in their hidey holes. That one will eventually produce another mass casualty incident is inevitable, and even welcomed, so as to bring the hammer down on these nitwits again.

The problem is our society is much less cohesive than it was after OKC, certainly less so than 9/11. There's sincere worry that our government has lost all authority, moral or otherwise, to enforce the peace, to the point the Andrea Mitchells get worried about theirown security.

Material progress will not bring peace, prosperity, and happiness, but more competition for fewer and fewer resources. The ultra rich have certainly made plans for societal collapse.

Buckle up.
   2889. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:20 AM (#5517792)
Headline: "USS John McCain collides with merchant vessel"

First thought: "It was probably the tumor."
   2890. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5517795)
the old guard was playing upon grievance too...

Yeah, but they were redneck mothers... at least after the robert Byrd's of the world publicly converted. Whathisface Spencer is a college grad.
   2891. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5517796)
Ummm, maybe I'm reading the history incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure that the old guard was playing upon grievance too...


American history is built on identity politics and grievance. What has changed is that identities other than "white men" are demanding a seat at the table.
   2892. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:24 AM (#5517797)
Whathisface Spencer is a college grad.


They have always had an "acceptable face" they put on TV, son. What do you think David Duke was?
   2893. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:25 AM (#5517798)
President Trump, head of The Yankee Clapper's political movement, responds to the horrible news of a collision between a U.S. Navy warship and a tanker:

'That's too bad'


Not sure wtf is wrong with that response. But if that's not code for racism I don't know what is.
   2894. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:25 AM (#5517799)
Is that why you're so willing to embrace white nationalism now?

#### that ####. I've been alienated from white society since at least kindergarten... Probably when mom left me in the care of a black granny when she went back to work.
   2895. Rockwell Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:27 AM (#5517801)
I think someone said it already, but why wouldn't Dany just fly the dragons to the other side of the Wall and have them torch the White Walkers?

In Civilization terms, the dragons are a 99 on offense, and all the other military units are 1s and 2s. At that point, it's bye bye drama. I haven't seen last night's episode yet so might not know the entire aftereffect, but they made it so even a direct hit from Bronn's somewhat sophisticated offensive weapon barely put a dent in the dragon he hit.

Meh.

Even the whole concept of The Wall is silly, given the dragons' military prowess and ability to fly great lengths. Knowing now what we know, why do we even care that there's a Wall?

And that plotline wherein Dany put the dragons into purgatory for a spell now looks utterly absurd.
   2896. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:27 AM (#5517802)
What do you think David Duke was?

The results of bad plastic surgery and a dye job? Nobodys fooled by that clown.

Maybe Jim Acosta.

   2897. McCoy Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:28 AM (#5517805)
Why didn't Dany just take her dragons and a small detachment from Meereen and smash all the other armies five or six seasons ago? It's not as though the dragons really need any infantry support.

When you add that to the ending of Season 6, I think we can safely say that some of the rulers' enemies are getting dispatched too easily.


In the books it is because the dragons are too small and not capable of fully defending themselves along with Dany not wishing to leaver her people undefended against Slaver Bay. Before she takes off on her adventures with Drogon she had lost the Mongol Horde and had a bunch of undernourished slaves and the Unsullied. She was tempted several times to go to Westeros by the leaders of the Slaver's Bay area but she routinely turned them down because she didn't want to abandon her people.

ell, they also made it appear that there were two bears... or the bear got to borrow the short distance teleporter now that Bronn and Jamie were done with it.

Yeah, this was bad directing and editing. A scene like that shouldn't be confusing. It should have been better choreographed and we should have gotten a better sense of the geography. But it was funny to me that it appears that that was the one instance in which it appears they sent a scout out ahead of them and it was practically useless.
   2898. Mans Best Friend Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5517807)
American history is built on identity politics and grievance.

It was built by the owners, hook and crook. Owners who are more or less internationally integrated now.

It's losers who resort to grievance.
   2899. McCoy Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5517808)
Even the whole concept of The Wall is silly, given the dragons' military prowess and ability to fly great lengths. Knowing now what we know, why do we even care that there's a Wall?

Well, that is the big deal with the dead dragon. The White Walkers now have the ability to fly over the wall rendering it largely useless.

One of the other things about the whole Frozen Lake Battle that bothered me is that the zombies have giant spears that they are capable of throwing at great speed accurately over great distances. They didn't think to use them against the Magnificent Seven stuck on an exposed rock all night long? Why didn't the zombies simply walk underwater up to the rock and then chop through ice to get at them? Why didn't the zombies just send groups of themselves at the rock all through the night? It's just bad writing all the way through.
   2900. Covfefe Posted: August 21, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5517809)
But it was funny to me that it appears that that was the one instance in which it appears they sent a scout out ahead of them and it was practically useless.


Because they weren't using Flash Gendry as the scout
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