Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, January 15, 2018

OTP 15 January 2018:Mississippi’s anti-gay marriage law is hurting two college baseball teams

The “stick to sports” mantra took on a life of its own in 2017, as the interweaving of sports and politics was undeniable and, ultimately, angered quite a few sports fans. Still, protests during the national anthem or political tweets by athletes never actually got in the way of the action or stopped games from being played.

But politics have halted a college baseball series between the University of Southern Mississippi and Stony Brook University, a public school in New York. The two schools were scheduled to meet in a three-game series in February, but dueling declarations in each state have now made that series impossible. The kicker? It has absolutely nothing to do with baseball.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 15, 2018 at 03:13 PM | 2103 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: college baseball, off topic, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 18 of 22 pages ‹ First  < 16 17 18 19 20 >  Last ›
   1701. Stormy JE Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:05 PM (#5609910)
Allahpundit:
Let’s run through this again because job one for Schumer and Pelosi over the next 24 hours will be to muddy waters that are actually quite clear.

First offer from Republicans: Let’s fund the government and pass a DREAM amnesty, as both sides want to do, and in return you give us some concessions on chain migration and the wall. Republicans have no choice but to use DREAM as leverage for those concessions despite their support for the policy because Democrats are incredibly reluctant to tighten admission policies under the best of circumstances. So how about a little something in return for DREAM, in the name of compromise? Nope, says Schumer. Won’t do it. We’ll give you a few billion in mad money for border improvements but we’re not doing anything that might move the U.S. towards skills-based criteria for immigrants and away from “bring the whole family!” policies.

Second offer from Republicans: Okay, since we’re stuck on a DREAM deal, let’s table the whole immigration issue for now and instead agree to fund the government and extend CHIP long-term, as both sides want to do. We’ll come back to DREAM afterwards when we’re not facing a hard deadline. Nope, says Schumer. Won’t do it. The amnesty fanatics in my base refuse to let us sign on to any funding deal that doesn’t include DREAM. Even though not only is DACA still in effect, the feds are letting enrollees renew their enrollments.

Third offer from Republicans: Okay, since Democrats are hung up on amnesty and worried about voting for a bill that doesn’t include it, let’s temporarily change the rules so that they don’t have to vote for the bill at all. Last night McConnell asked for unanimous consent from the Senate to let Republicans pass a funding bill with 50 votes instead of the 60 that the filibuster requires. It’s not at all certain that he has even 50 votes right now, but he was willing to take full responsibility for the bill’s passage via his caucus alone. If he found the votes he needed, the government would stay open without any Democratic assent to the DREAM-less bill. Nope, said Schumer. Won’t do it. He objected to the motion for unanimous consent. McConnell still needs 60, all but ensuring a shutdown.

And yet, for a variety of reasons ranging from the fact that they control the government to their own frequent small-government rhetoric to media bias, Republicans and Trump combined stand to take more heat if there’s a shutdown tonight than Democrats will: ...

The basic problem with the current funding standoff is the same basic problem in all negotiations that touch on immigration: Democrats are simply too radical on the issue to agree to meaningful compromise. In that one sense, immigration politics reminds me of abortion politics. There too Republicans are knocked as radicals and absolutists when in reality Democrats are at least as extreme in their own beliefs. Heavy majorities of the public agree that abortion should be banned after 20 weeks yet it’s basic dogma among most Democratic pols — certainly ones with national ambitions — that abortion should be completely unrestricted, essentially up to the moment of birth. Even Doug Jones, running for a Senate seat in a red state in the deep south, wouldn’t move off that position. That’s fanaticism.

So it is with immigration, where Democrats routinely resist attempts to put real teeth into enforcement (e.g., E-Verify) or to limit far-reaching family reunification policies for legal immigrants, even if Republicans are willing to agree to amnesty in the process. The “absolutist” GOP, led by its “nativist” president, is openly declaring its willingness to rubber-stamp DREAM. They just want a down payment on real controls over new immigration. Democrats won’t do it because, demographics being what they are, they’ve increasingly adopted a fanatic stance on open borders for their own political gain. It really is as simple as that.
Emphasis mine.
   1702. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:15 PM (#5609912)
Awwwww, man ... Tom Petty died of an opioid overdose:


Tom Petty’s family has confirmed it: The American singer was killed by an accidental drug overdose involving opioids when he died last October — making him one of the most recent celebrities to die in the opioid epidemic.

Petty’s family posted on his official website:

Unfortunately Tom’s body suffered from many serious ailments including emphysema, knee problems and most significantly a fractured hip.

Despite this painful injury he insisted on keeping his commitment to his fans and he toured for 53 dates with a fractured hip and, as he did, it worsened to a more serious injury.

On the day he died he was informed his hip had graduated to a full on break and it is our feeling that the pain was simply unbearable and was the cause for his over use of medication.


He had multiple drugs — several of which were opioids — in his system when he died, including fentanyl, oxycodone, temazepam, alprazolam, citalopram, acetyl fentanyl, and despropionyl fentanyl, according to the Los Angeles Times. It’s not uncommon for drug overdoses to involve more than one substance.


Vox

53 shows on a fractured hip ...
   1703. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:24 PM (#5609913)
1699:

Those are all great, major players. I'd have to give consideration to It Happened One Night and Easy Living, but as an off the top of your head list it's very good. (Although I could quibble about Stage Door, but, then, who couldn't find something to object to on anyone's list?)

I'd find it interesting to concoct a list of second-tier gems of the '30s: Like Lady for Day or You Can't Take It With You. Hands Across the Table, The Mad Miss Manton, Blessed Event, Hide-Out, The Richest Girl in the World, Midnight, Wise Girl (Miriam Hopkins), Twentieth Century, The Good Fairy, and Design for Living. Just to name some off the top of my head.
   1704. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5609914)
"Midnight" is firmly in my top tier, and on my list in #1699. It's a comedy that's never mentioned among the classic Hollywood era greats, which is a dire mistake.

"Stage Door" is something like a female "Caddyshack" in that the characters are operating in different styles, almost shooting past one another while sharing the same scenes. Though "Stage Door" has dramatic stakes underlying the comedy.
   1705. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:31 PM (#5609915)
I've already detailed my reservations about Libeled Lady. It's still great, though. But, yeah, I think My Man Godfrey is better. I'm not seeing what would be Loy's 1936 movie that would be better.

(Just as a bit of old movie buff trivia, Howard Hawks (or his writers) stole the fishing scene from Libeled Lady for Man's Favorite Sport.
   1706. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5609917)
On the day he died he was informed his hip had graduated to a full on break and it is our feeling that the pain was simply unbearable and was the cause for his over use of medication.


FFS.
   1707. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5609918)
I'm not seeing what would be Loy's 1936 movie that would be better.


I think 1936's "Thin Man" #2 is better. I also say that, as comedy, the "Thin Man" tone is harder to create and maintain than a typical screwball "marriage breakup, scheme, and repair" farce.

Okay, "After the Thin Man" was the sequel, so the tone was easier to create than "The Thin Man"s was, but you get the idea.
   1708. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5609919)
After the Thin Man is, in my estimation, the second-best of the Thin Man movies. It's very good, not least because it has the one and only James Stewart, who in the last few seconds of the movie threatens to take it into a whole other dimension. After seeing that, it had to be obvious to fans and movie people that this guy was something else.
   1709. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:49 PM (#5609920)
Anything done fast is done wrong, but here are the best dozen film comedies of the 1930s until I remember another one and go "aw crap."
The Awful Truth
The Baker's Wife
Bringing Up Baby
City Lights
Duck Soup
Horse Feathers
Midnight
Modern Times
My Man Godfrey
Nothing Sacred
Stage Door
Trouble in Paradise


#13 would be something like "Ninotchka," or one of the other Marx Brothers movies. If it were possible to extract the best lines and sequences from the ramshackle W.C. Fields, Laurel & Hardy and Mae West movies, they'd be up in that ionosphere instead of in the next dozen.

This is even more off the top of my head, but here'd be my dozen in random order:

Bombshell
Libeled Lady
Dinner at Eight
Bringing Up Baby
Sons of the Desert
Trouble in Paradise
A Night at the Opera
Nothing Sacred
It's a Gift
Easy Living
The Women
Reefer Madness

#13 would be Le Schpountz, though The Sheep Has Five Legs was Fernandel's masterpiece. Never seen The Baker's Wife, though I see that it's also directed by Pagnol. Never seen Midnight, either.

EDIT: I'd have put After The Thin Man on the list, but I don't think of any of The Thin Man series as primarily comedies. They're in a genre of their own.

   1710. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5609921)
Minor gems?
   1711. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 19, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5609922)
The House Democratic Caucus has scheduled a Saturday AM meeting. Presumably to reminisce about how the continuing resolution passed the Senate, and that everything went great?
   1712. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:00 PM (#5609925)
Okay, "After the Thin Man" was the sequel, so the tone was easier to create than "The Thin Man"s was, but you get the idea.

Kind of hard to credit the man who wrote The Maltese Falcon and other similar hardboiled stuff with the later airy fluffiness of The Thin Man. Actually, it's rather impressive that he could do that.
   1713. Srul Itza Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5609926)
Is it time for this yet?
   1714. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5609927)
The House Democratic Caucus has scheduled a Saturday AM meeting. Presumably to reminisce about how the continuing resolution passed the Senate, and that everything went great?

This will get solved by EOB Monday with no money for The Wall and a solution for DACA.
   1715. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5609928)
Never seen The Baker's Wife, though I see that it's also directed by Pagnol. Never seen Midnight, either.


Well, do, and then do. Or vice versa.
   1716. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5609930)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand ... we're off!
   1717. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:20 PM (#5609931)
1715

After WWII, Orson Welles came to see director Marcel Pagnol, told him he saw the movie and he would like to meet Raimu, "the greatest actor in the world" according to Welles. Pagnol answered Raimu recently died and Welles burst into tears. (Source: "Confidences" by Pagnol.)
From IMDB
   1718. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5609933)
Never seen The Baker's Wife, though I see that it's also directed by Pagnol. Never seen Midnight, either.

Well, do, and then do. Or vice versa.


Tried to find The Baker's Wife on Netflix, and while there were enough wife movies to satiate Tommy Manville, none of them were married to a baker. And after seeing the plot outline of Midnight, I put it 39th in my queue.
   1719. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:28 PM (#5609934)
Paul, Lee and Graham voted no.

What is it that Dancing Monkey #3 Juanabout likes to say?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Donald Trump...dealer maker?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Only D's would vote No?


HAHAHAHAHAHAGFAHAGAGAFSAFAA
   1720. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5609935)
Well, Trump was right about one thing: he'll take the heat. That piece of ####.
   1721. BDC Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5609936)
Kind of hard to credit the man who wrote The Maltese Falcon and other similar hardboiled stuff with the later airy fluffiness of The Thin Man. Actually, it's rather impressive that he could do that

But your suspicion is right; it wasn’t the same guy. The Thin Man pictures, by various screenwriters, use Hammett’s characters and general premise (hardboiled detective marries society dame). But Hammett’s novel is rougher and quite a bit sadder - Nick Charles in the novel is a genuine alcoholic, and not a very funny one ultimately. It was Hammett’s last novel, and I think he was writing about himself: he drank his way out of a writing career.
   1722. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5609938)
What you say is true, but I remember the tone and attitude as pretty jaunty. Nick's alcoholism is front and center, but it's treated archly, even glibly and airily, as I remember. It has been about 30 years since I read it, though, so maybe I'm not remembering it right.

As I recall, the ingenue sits on Nick's lap and when she leaves, Nora asks if he got an erection: "Just a small one," he responds without missing a beat.
   1723. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:38 PM (#5609939)
Nick Charles in the novel is a genuine alcoholic, and not a very funny one ultimately. It was Hammett’s last novel, and I think he was writing about himself: he drank his way out of a writing career.

Hammett must have been beyond drunk when he kept mistaking Lillian Hellman for Loretta Young.
   1724. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5609941)
50-48 vote in favor of ending debate, not enough to overcome the Democratic filibuster, although it'd be enough to pass the funding bill if it came to a vote. McCain is still in Arizona recovering, and McConnell hasn't voted yet, presumably so he can cast a tactical no vote and later move to reconsider if circumstances change.
   1725. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5609943)
Gore Vidal asked, wrt the supposed liaison between Hammett and Hellman, did anyone ever actually see them together?
   1726. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:49 PM (#5609944)
Those 4 GOP "no" votes helped to provide cover for Jones and the 4 swing state Democrats who voted "yes". I just hope the national party doesn't start going after them for it.
   1727. reech Posted: January 19, 2018 at 10:53 PM (#5609945)
Burn it to the ground.
   1728. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5609948)
"Midnight" is firmly in my top tier, and on my list in #1699. It's a comedy that's never mentioned among the classic Hollywood era greats, which is a dire mistake.

Especially since the script was by Billy Wilder and Charles Brackett. It does, however, have an 8.0 rating on IMDB, so some people are pretty impressed.

Wilder hated the director Mitchell Leisen, as did Preston Sturges, and both Sturges and Wilder vowed to direct their own scripts because they didn't like what Leisen did with them. (Leisen directed Easy Living, script by Sturges.) I'm not sure what they objected to--probably they felt he softened and romanticised them too much. Leisen wasn't Sturges or Wilder, but he was definitely a good director.

Also, btw, Stanwyck was originally slated to play Colbert's role.
   1729. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:13 PM (#5609949)
46 minutes to SHUTDOWN.
   1730. reech Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5609950)
can someone tell me why the deadline is midnite-
what would happen if they agreed tommorow? or at one in the morning?
   1731. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:22 PM (#5609952)
I'm not seeing what the defense for Hillary on the dossier is. Once the "oppo research" that her campaigned paid for comes back and it's a pack of lies, she can either shelve the bogus dossier and instruct people in her campaign not to use it, or she can look the other way while they peddle it to the media and the government so that Trump is defamed and investigated by the government. It seems she chose the latter, because the bogus dossier was in fact peddled to the media and the government which may well have caused Trump to be investigated.

So the only defense for her is that she didn't know what the people in her charge were doing with the bogus dossier, or that she ordered her people to do nothing with it and they did it anyway, or some such. None of that looks good on her but if that's the best defense for her, let's state that now. If that's not the best defense for her, what is?

   1732. tshipman Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:29 PM (#5609953)
can someone tell me why the deadline is midnite-
what would happen if they agreed tommorow? or at one in the morning?


The deadline is midnight because there has to be a date. Government spending has to be funded by congress because it's in the Constitution:

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.


So the money has to be appropriated, and when that appropriation runs out, government has to shut down.

In terms of what would happen if they agreed tomorrow or at 1 am: practically, almost nothing. Shutdowns used to be more common, for just a day at a time. There were three during the Reagan administration that lasted less than two days total.

If they don't meet the deadline, then national parks don't open tomorrow, and some people have to work without getting paid until later. Practically, there's not much difference until Monday.
   1733. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:36 PM (#5609955)
can someone tell me why the deadline is midnite - what would happen if they agreed tommorow? or at one in the morning?

The previous Continuing Resolution provided funding through today, so at midnight, no more funding. There was a time when these minor, short term lapses were more-or-less ignored, but, IIRC, back in the Carter Administration the Comptroller General ruled that without an appropriation a shutdown of non-essential operations was required. Since it's the weekend, impact is minimal, and even on Monday employees will come in and pretend to shutdown operations. Effects will become more noticeable as time goes on.
   1734. tshipman Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:39 PM (#5609956)
I'm not seeing what the defense for Hillary on the dossier is. Once the "oppo research" that her campaigned paid for comes back and it's a pack of lies, she can either shelve the bogus dossier and instruct people in her campaign not to use it, or she can look the other way while they peddle it to the media and the government so that Trump is defamed and investigated by the government. It seems she chose the latter, because the bogus dossier was in fact peddled to the media and the government which may well have caused Trump to be investigated.

So the only defense for her is that she didn't know what the people in her charge were doing with the bogus dossier, or that she ordered her people to do nothing with it and they did it anyway, or some such. None of that looks good on her but if that's the best defense for her, let's state that now. If that's not the best defense for her, what is?


Um, well, there's the defense that the information obtained in the dossier was from a skilled professional, and that he believed it to be true.

So if you presuppose that it was all a pack of lies, then sure. But Hillary's team didn't believe it was a pack of lies, and indeed, its core claim that Russia was intervening on behalf of Donald Trump was true. Whether or not Trump colluded with Russia is still being investigated and the truth will bear out, but the first four bullets of the dossier reads as follows:

Russian Regime has been cultivating, supporting and assisting TRUMP for at least 5 years. Aim, endorsed by PUTIN, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance

So far TRUMP has declined various sweetener real estate business deals offered him in Russia in order to further the Kremlin's cultivation of him. However he and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals.

Former top Russian intelligence officer claims FSB has compromised TRUMP through his activities in Moscow sufficiently to be able to blackmail him. According to several knowledgeable sources, his conduct in Moscow has included perverted sexual acts which have been arranged/monitored by the FSB

A dossier of compromising material on Hillary CLINTON has been collated by the Russian Intelligence Services over many years and mainly comprises bugged conversations she had on various visits to Russia and intercepted phone calls rather than any embarrassing conduct. The dossier is controlled by Kremlin spokesman PESKOV, directly on PUTIN's orders. However, it has not as yet been distributed abroad, including to TRUMP. Russian intentions for its deployment still unclear.



The best defense for the dossier is that by and large, its main arguments have been proven either correct or significantly more likely than it seemed at the time. Further, Steele got the story straight first. Parts of it still need to be investigated. Some of it may never been provable. All of it is careful intelligence work, neatly and carefully sourced.
   1735. Stormy JE Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:42 PM (#5609957)
   1736. Stormy JE Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:43 PM (#5609958)
its core claim that Russia was intervening on behalf of Donald Trump was true.
NARRATOR: That wasn't its core claim.
   1737. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:44 PM (#5609959)
Does shutting down the government over illegal immigration show that Democrats are putting the interests of illegal immigrants over the interests of citizens?
   1738. Stormy JE Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:45 PM (#5609960)
The best defense for the dossier is that by and large, its main arguments have been proven either correct or significantly more likely than it seemed at the time. Further, Steele got the story straight first. Parts of it still need to be investigated. Some of it may never been provable. All of it is careful intelligence work, neatly and carefully sourced.
Exactly which part of "salacious and unverified," uttered by James Comey in Capitol Hill testimony last year, do you not understand?
   1739. Omineca Greg Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:47 PM (#5609961)
There's three major brands of Canadian Whisky that are 100% rye...

Alberta Premium, which here is considered bottom shelf, but somehow Jim Murray always scores it really highly. Mr. Lahey always drank it, and if there's one thing Mr. Lahey knew, it was booze. They always pixelate the bottle on the show, but
its really distinctive, and it's part of the humour of the situation that you're not supposed to be able to recognise the bottle, but even if you've seen it once, you would. On one episode you could read the label, and it said "Jeddore Premium", so another Canadian in-joke.

Lot 40. That's nice whisky. It's all rye, although some of it is malted and some of it is unmalted. I think you can get that one in the States. You'll often read Americans on-line say, "I thought all Canadian Whisky was lame, until I tried Lot 40." Here it's a reasonable price, $35, I think it costs about the same in the US.

Canadian Club Chairman's Select. This isn't made in Windsor like the rest of Canadian Club's whiskies, but instead it comes from Alberta (same distillery as the Alberta Premium). It's good too, nice little rye kick, and cheap. $22, which in BC is as cheap as it gets.

Generally, Canadian Whisky doesn't have a mash bill. All the whiskies that go into the blend are distilled separately: corn whiskies, rye whiskies, some base whiskies, some flavouring whiskies, and they're blended at bottling. Here, a whisky could be 100% rye, but if the base whisky were distilled to a high enough proof, a lot of the rye flavour would be gone, and it wouldn't get to be overwhelming. Our 100% rye whiskies don't taste much different than our other whiskies.

The Alberta Distillery in Calgary is by far the biggest rye distillery in the world; it produces three times as much rye as the rest of North America combined. A lot of it heads south in tanker trains to be used by American blenders.
   1740. tshipman Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:51 PM (#5609962)
Exactly which part of "salacious and unverified," uttered by James Comey in Capitol Hill testimony last year, do you not understand?


I dunno, maybe how the news that a President paid a pornstar hush money to help try to cover up an affair helps make it more likely that he slept with prostitutes in Russia.
   1741. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:56 PM (#5609963)
Um, well, there's the defense that the information obtained in the dossier was from a skilled professional, and that he believed it to be true.


He couldn't possibly have believed that the accounts in the bogus dossier were true. Which means that -- if we take the best defense for her -- she allowed him to hoodwink her on the matter.

So if you presuppose that it was all a pack of lies, then sure. But Hillary's team didn't believe it was a pack of lies,


Why? Because they're so honorable and virtuous?

and indeed, its core claim that Russia was intervening on behalf of Donald Trump was true.


That wasn't the "core claim." If it was nobody would have concluded from it that Trump had done anything wrong. The core claims were malfeasance on the part of Trump, plus salacious things like golden showers.

--

Really it's just hilarious. You pay someone to pay someone to dig up dirt on Trump using Russian sources, and what comes back is... a bunch of lies. How incompetent were these "oppo researchers"? How hard is it to dig up dirt on Trump that's actually true? Particularly given the resources that were poured into this project. The man has engaged in misdeed after misdeed after act of moral turpitude for nearly half a century. And you as Hillary Clinton set out to find such dirt on him by paying "skilled professionals" and you can't do it? What? It is to laugh.
   1742. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 19, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5609964)
When you've lost even Andy's beloved Gray Lady...

#SchumerShutdown

Looks like the Associated Press also failed to heed the BBTF-OTP Team Blue memo about who to blame - Senate Democrats Derail Bill To Avert Shutdown. #Schumer Shutdown
   1743. tshipman Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:02 AM (#5609965)
Wow Ray, your post in 1741 is so well sourced and filled with so many convincing citations that I am convinced.

That wasn't the "core claim." If it was nobody would have concluded from it that Trump had done anything wrong. The core claims were malfeasance on the part of Trump, plus salacious things like golden showers.


Again, just read the first bullets. Those were the bottom line points by the author. What the media took out of it was not what he author wrote.

But you won't engage with the text. Because you just want to lie about stuff, and that's easier when you can ignore what is actually written.
   1744. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5609966)
Why? Because they're so honorable and virtuous?
In fairness to shipman, he has never wavered on this point. To him, Hillary is, and always has been, (EDIT: and always will be) a victim of the VRWC.
   1745. tshipman Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:06 AM (#5609967)
I will stop engaging with the trolls on this, but I will just point out that anyone can read Christopher Steele's work, and then they can read what Ray and JUANABOUT Epstein have written here.

The difference in the level of care, the critical thinking and respect for their reader is obvious to anyone with a greater than third grade education.
   1746. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:06 AM (#5609968)
Um, well, there's the defense that the information obtained in the dossier was from a skilled professional, and that he believed it to be true.

Simpson & Steele also "researched" & eagerly spread the anti-Magnitsky smears. You stand behind those, too? Seems to me that's there's considerable evidence that they will create whatever fits their paying client's needs.
   1747. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:08 AM (#5609969)
I will stop engaging with the trolls on this,


Please. Your comments on this topic have been ridiculous.
   1748. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:10 AM (#5609970)
Again, just read the first bullets. Those were the bottom line points by the author. What the media took out of it was not what he author wrote.

But you won't engage with the text. Because you just want to lie about stuff, and that's easier when you can ignore what is actually written.
Want some more bullets?

You're the one who's pretending media organizations believed the contents of the dossier during the campaign.

You're the one who's pretending James Comey didn't refer to the dossier as "salacious and unverified."

You're the one who's pretending that the Democrats now can't run away from the claims of the dossier fast enough.
   1749. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:16 AM (#5609971)
JUANABOUT Epstein
And... now you're just being a sore prick.
   1750. tshipman Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:16 AM (#5609972)
Simpson & Steele also "researched" & eagerly spread the anti-Magnitsky smears. You stand behind those, too? Seems to me that's there's considerable evidence that they will create whatever fits their paying client's needs.


This is not true. Steele was not involved in the Browder/Prevezon project.

Again, you can see the lack of care for the truth.
   1751. Count Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:39 AM (#5609973)
Ray asserts the dossier is a pack of lies without any basis whatsoever. To the extent the allegations aren't true they weren't necessarily (in fact we have no reason to think) they were deliberate lies. (Ray notably does not point to allegations he knows are false). Of course when it comes to actual evidence of collusion Ray, JE, YC and conservative media and politicians dont care at all. Why worry about working with Russians who hacked your opponents?

Edit: actual evidence of collusion has significantly different details than what's in the dossier, for what it's worth, which may be why conservatives who don't care about the possibility that Trump collided with Russia and the certainty that Trump obstructed justice focus so much on the dossier.
   1752. Traderdave Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:43 AM (#5609974)
1739:

Lot 40 is indeed excellent stuff, it's the only Canadian I've had that I want again. I will look for Caribou Crossing, and thank you for the whiskey/whisky tips.
   1753. Omineca Greg Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:30 AM (#5609976)
...thank you for the whiskey/whisky tips.
No worries.

They just came out with a limited run of cask strength Lot 40, and I snagged one of the 24 bottles that came to the Omineca. I haven't opened it yet, but I'm looking forward to the day I do.

Canadian distillers sell a lot of whisky in the US. It's usually cheap and good to mix with, and those are important qualities to a lot of people, so it's no wonder it does well. The thing is, Americans have a certain expectation of what a Canadian Whisky should be, and it's been kind of limiting to the Canadian whisky industry; in Canada, consumers are much more open-minded about what our whisky should taste like, so experimentation and creativity pays off in this market, but it's a much smaller market, and at times the incentive hasn't been there.

I'm a real believer in the product, it's a part of our history and heritage, and when I hear that somebody has enjoyed it...I don't know, it's our one shot at making a world class contribution in the liquor marketplace, so I'm happy when people are liking it.
   1754. Lassus Posted: January 20, 2018 at 02:16 AM (#5609977)
Liberals and Dems found the GOP shutting down the government to be disgusting and irresponsible.
Conservatives and the GOP do a little dance of joy when the Dems shut down the government.

Wonder why.
   1755. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 05:10 AM (#5609983)
Ray asserts the dossier is a pack of lies without any basis whatsoever. To the extent the allegations aren't true they weren't necessarily (in fact we have no reason to think) they were deliberate lies. (Ray notably does not point to allegations he knows are false). Of course when it comes to actual evidence of collusion Ray, JE, YC and conservative media and politicians dont care at all. Why worry about working with Russians who hacked your opponents?


I think the defining question of our time may be this: what makes a man go cockholster? How does reflexive, even aggressive obsequiousness rise to become the defining personal characteristic of a person when confronted with disconcerting news that disrupts their preferred narrative?

Under most related circumstances you could begin to address this question by speaking with the cockholsters themselves, but unfortunately of sociologists and other interested parties, the complete and utter lack of introspection is a hallmark of the affliction. At the neurochemical level we lack the tools to probe deeply enough into this mystery. Perhaps there are no easy answers.
   1756. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 05:52 AM (#5609985)
I'm not seeing what the defense for Hillary on the dossier is. Once the "oppo research" that her campaigned paid for comes back and it's a pack of lies, she can either shelve the bogus dossier and instruct people in her campaign not to use it, or she can look the other way while they peddle it to the media and the government so that Trump is defamed and investigated by the government. It seems she chose the latter, because the bogus dossier was in fact peddled to the media and the government which may well have caused Trump to be investigated.

So the only defense for her is that she didn't know what the people in her charge were doing with the bogus dossier, or that she ordered her people to do nothing with it and they did it anyway, or some such. None of that looks good on her but if that's the best defense for her, let's state that now. If that's not the best defense for her, what is?
I suppose her first clue was that the front cover was labeled "Bogus Trump Dossier," and underneath that was written, "By I.P. Freely." The fact that three of the pages were written in crayon really ought to have tipped her off, too. The promotional blurbs on the back cover from Vladimir Putin ("Best pack of lies the KGB ever wrote") and Kelsey Grammer ("Almost as amusing as the same joke told every week for 264 weeks!") were really the clincher, though.




EDIT: By the way, why do I suspect that Ray Doesn't Care™ enough to have actually read the dossier that he is now claiming is fake?
   1757. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 06:03 AM (#5609986)
Exactly which part of "salacious and unverified," uttered by James Comey in Capitol Hill testimony last year, do you not understand?
You kind of keep resting al your arguments on old information. That's a seven month old quote about a one-year old statement. Comey wasn't describing the dossier's then-current state as salacious and unverified; he was describing the intelligence community's thinking as of the time they briefed Trump on the dossier (which was before Trump was even inaugurated). He was saying, "We thought it important to brief Trump about it at that time, even though it was salacious and unverified."

Whether Mueller (or anyone else) has subsequently verified significant parts of the dossier is unknown; if they have, they haven't told us (to the best of my knowledge. While I care more than Ray, I don't follow the story obsessively, so I could have missed something.) But claiming that it's unverified now because Comey described it as having been unverified a year ago is not warranted.
   1758. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 06:10 AM (#5609987)
Really it's just hilarious. You pay someone to pay someone to dig up dirt on Trump using Russian sources, and what comes back is... a bunch of lies. How incompetent were these "oppo researchers"? How hard is it to dig up dirt on Trump that's actually true? Particularly given the resources that were poured into this project. The man has engaged in misdeed after misdeed after act of moral turpitude for nearly half a century. And you as Hillary Clinton set out to find such dirt on him by paying "skilled professionals" and you can't do it? What? It is to laugh.
I look forward to reading the New York Times bestseller, Secrets of the Russian Government: Stories of My Life in Espionage by the World's Greatest Patent Lawyer, As Told to I.P. Freely.


(Really, I don't know why Steele didn't just Google the phrase <Trump Russia corruption>, print out the results, stick them in a clear plastic binder, and mail them to Fusion GPS. Everyone knows that's how you find out about illegal business dealings between someone and the Russian government. Duh.)
   1759. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: January 20, 2018 at 06:11 AM (#5609988)
Liberals and Dems found the GOP shutting down the government to be disgusting and irresponsible.
Conservatives and the GOP do a little dance of joy when the Dems shut down the government.

Wonder why.

The GOP's agenda of regressivism is much less dependent on maintaining the reputation and stability of government institutions than the Democrats' agenda. It is weird to see the consequences of this stylized fact extend to not-exactly-progressive institutions such as the FBI and the CIA ("the deep state").
   1760. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 20, 2018 at 06:16 AM (#5609989)
When you've lost even Andy's beloved Gray Lady...

Well, we've certainly lost Pradheep J. Shanker, MD, who by his picture looks like he's about to pop a vein. Another one of your tweeting buddies, JE?
   1761. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 06:20 AM (#5609990)
Simpson & Steele also "researched" & eagerly spread the anti-Magnitsky smears. You stand behind those, too? Seems to me that's there's considerable evidence that they will create whatever fits their paying client's needs.
Wait, what? Fusion was involved in the anti-Magnitsky stuff; I don't recall seeing anywhere that Steele was.

EDIT: Coke to shipman.
   1762. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 06:23 AM (#5609991)
Liberals and Dems found the GOP shutting down the government to be disgusting and irresponsible.
Conservatives and the GOP do a little dance of joy when the Dems shut down the government.

Wonder why.
Because liberals worship government, duh.
   1763. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: January 20, 2018 at 06:41 AM (#5609993)
Because liberals worship government, duh.

You can always move to Somalia.
   1764. Hysterical & Useless Posted: January 20, 2018 at 07:03 AM (#5609995)
All of you obsessed with Mueller/dossier/collusion/govt shutdown etc, please spend some time this weekend watching some of the films noted by Gonfalon, Morty, and Andy. I haven't seen all of them, but many that I have seen are indeed wonderful entertainment. In spite of the relative paucity of explosions.

I doubt the results will be transformative, but maybe the dialogue here will be a little more pleasant for a day or two.

Yeah, probably a bit too optimistic there.
   1765. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 07:22 AM (#5609996)

You can always move to Somalia.


David is already accustomed to being forced to do everything at gunpoint, it would be a smooth transition.

Not sure what a lawyer would do for a living in the absence of a strong government though. Maybe he has some legitimately useful skills he could leverage, like well-digging. With some training I suspect he could be a loblolly boy on a pirate ship.
   1766. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5609997)
Lassus, Democrats are voting against legislation they admit they support to play politics but whatever.
   1767. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 08:39 AM (#5609998)
Ray asserts the dossier is a pack of lies without any basis whatsoever. To the extent the allegations aren't true they weren't necessarily (in fact we have no reason to think) they were deliberate lies. (Ray notably does not point to allegations he knows are false). Of course when it comes to actual evidence of collusion Ray, JE, YC and conservative media and politicians dont care at all. Why worry about working with Russians who hacked your opponents?
I agree that there's a lack of evidence to indicate the "dossier is a pack of lies." The far more plausible explanation for it being "salacious and unverified" is that the Kremlin compromised its contents -- because again, the Kremlin was looking to undermine the American polity, not install Trump as its puppet.

As Smiley would say, "It's just enough glitter amongst the chicken-feed."

Edit: actual evidence of collusion has significantly different details than what's in the dossier, for what it's worth, which may be why conservatives who don't care about the possibility that Trump collided with Russia and the certainty that Trump obstructed justice focus so much on the dossier.
To be clear, you have no "actual evidence of collusion," at least nothing indicating criminal activity. And of course, it's so adorable reading folks here claiming supposed obstruction of justice proves collusion, while handwaving away the notion that Hillary's incessant lying about her homebrewed server proves nothing.

Oh, and please do wake us when Trump utters, "This is my last election... After my election I have more flexibility."

And then be sure to transmit the info to Vladimir.
   1768. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 08:46 AM (#5609999)
Bret Stephens would like a word with some of you... (Heads-up: He quotes Ray!)

Clueless Versus Trump:
It’s worth thinking carefully about why Trump’s critics have been so wrong about the economy, and of the damage their hubris does to the anti-Trump case.

Democrats entered the 2016 election cycle on what they thought was the back of a strong economy. It wasn’t. Barack Obama presided over the weakest expansion in postwar history. The economy grew by 15.5 percent from the second quarter of 2009 to the second quarter of 2016. During the (slightly longer) Reagan boom of 1982-90, it grew by more than 38 percent. The failure to understand this meant a failure to appreciate the depth of American discontent. It helps explain how Hillary Clinton lost her unlosable election to a man whose central claim to office was that he understood business.

More recently, Democrats have convinced themselves that Trump is merely the beneficiary of Obama’s economic legacy. But how can the critics who previously assured us that Trump’s election would cause certain calamity now explain that he’s nothing but a lucky bystander to forces beyond his control? Had the economy tumbled over the past year his critics would surely have blamed him. It’s ill grace to deny him all credit when it’s doing so well.

The truth is that it’s hard to account exactly for why the economy does well or poorly from one year to the next. But it’s also true that the president has been nothing if not aggressive in his efforts to remove regulations, cut taxes and promote American business (not least his own), and animal spirits on Wall Street have responded accordingly.

Also true is that Americans will generally give credit for a good economy to whichever president presides over it. Yet one gets a distinct sense that Trump’s relentless critics would rather bury the Apple news or look for the cloud within the silver lining. This is not a good look. If making confident but lousy predictions is one form of political malpractice, wanting things to fail is another.

   1769. Count Posted: January 20, 2018 at 08:48 AM (#5610000)
As we've discussed many times we have plenty of actual evidence of collusion and whether or not its criminal is a seperate issue. You'd think a die hard patriot who hates every non Saudi or Israeli foreign government like yourself would be upset by the possibility of Americans working with Russians who hacked candidates whether or not the behavior was criminal.

Whether or not obstruction proves collusion- it doesn't prove it IMO, just provides evidence for it - obstruction of justice is bad in and of itself.
I also thought that using private email for government work was bad and a scandal, albeit absurdly overblown by conservatives and by Jim Comey and leaking FBI agents, so your magical whatabout powers won't work here!
   1770. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 20, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5610001)
All of you obsessed with Mueller/dossier/collusion/govt shutdown etc, please spend some time this weekend watching some of the films noted by Gonfalon, Morty, and Andy. I haven't seen all of them, but many that I have seen are indeed wonderful entertainment. In spite of the relative paucity of explosions.

This was the last of my dozen recommendations, and if anyone wants a respite from political BS, I offer it in its entire 68 minutes and 18 seconds of glory and hot chocolate. The opening scroll alone puts it squarely in the Inner Circle of the Comedy Hall of Fame.

   1771. Count Posted: January 20, 2018 at 08:52 AM (#5610002)
Jesus JE it's salacious and unverified because it makes a bunch of strong accusations including pee tape (which is salacious) and it hasn't been verified. That doesn't mean it was deliberately false or compromised by the Russian government. In any event it didn't leak before the election, the FBI was hugely helpful to Trump during the election, and as far as anyone knows the investigation and indictments so far have nothing to do with the dossier.
   1772. -- Posted: January 20, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5610003)
Russian Regime has been cultivating, supporting and assisting TRUMP for at least 5 years. Aim, endorsed by PUTIN, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance

So far TRUMP has declined various sweetener real estate business deals offered him in Russia in order to further the Kremlin's cultivation of him. However he and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals.

Former top Russian intelligence officer claims FSB has compromised TRUMP through his activities in Moscow sufficiently to be able to blackmail him. According to several knowledgeable sources, his conduct in Moscow has included perverted sexual acts which have been arranged/monitored by the FSB

A dossier of compromising material on Hillary CLINTON has been collated by the Russian Intelligence Services over many years and mainly comprises bugged conversations she had on various visits to Russia and intercepted phone calls rather than any embarrassing conduct. The dossier is controlled by Kremlin spokesman PESKOV, directly on PUTIN's orders. However, it has not as yet been distributed abroad, including to TRUMP. Russian intentions for its deployment still unclear.


The "bizarre" thing is that even within the four walls of this wording, it way more should have prompted a closer look at Clinton. It flat out says Russia has compromising material on her. Did Fusion, or Clinton herself, report this finding to US counterintelligence?
   1773. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 09:05 AM (#5610004)
As we've discussed many times we have plenty of actual evidence of collusion and whether or not its criminal is a seperate issue. You'd think a die hard patriot who hates every non Saudi or Israeli foreign government like yourself would be upset by the possibility of Americans working with Russians who hacked candidates whether or not the behavior was criminal.
Which is why I didn't vote for him.

And lest we forget: When it appeared that Trump might refuse to accept the results of the election, pretty much everyone here was appalled -- and rightfully so. But when later Team Hillary and the outgoing Obama administration went out of their way to question the legitimacy of Trump as POTUS (perhaps even engaging in illegal activity in the process), some you cheerfully went along -- and still are.

And I'll ask again: Where were you in 2012?
   1774. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 09:07 AM (#5610005)
In any event it didn't leak before the election, the FBI was hugely helpful to Trump during the election, and as far as anyone knows the investigation and indictments so far have nothing to do with the dossier.
It didn't leak before the election, never mind that Simpson and Steele did their very best to do exactly that.

Right, we don't know the role the dossier played -- but some of us would like to know more.
   1775. Count Posted: January 20, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5610007)
I don't get it, you support the investigation and agree there's evidence of collusion but blast others for questioning Trumps legitimacy?
   1776. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5610008)
Democrats entered the 2016 election cycle on what they thought was the back of a strong economy. It wasn’t. Barack Obama presided over the weakest expansion in postwar history. The economy grew by 15.5 percent from the second quarter of 2009 to the second quarter of 2016. During the (slightly longer) Reagan boom of 1982-90, it grew by more than 38 percent.

I think the unprecedented measures the government took to reduce the severity of the Financial Crisis play a role here. If the Bush and Obama administrations hadn't put in place unprecedented stimulus and bailouts, and let things get much worse (as some wanted to do), you'd likely have had more rapid post-recession growth, albeit from a much lower base, and we'd probably all be much worse off today.

The failure to understand this meant a failure to appreciate the depth of American discontent. It helps explain how Hillary Clinton lost her unlosable election to a man whose central claim to office was that he understood business.

I think the "America is already great" message, while true, was a big political mis-step by the Democrats. Especially since they, much moreso than Republicans, have been the ones point out how things have been getting worse for the poor and middle class in recent decades.

More recently, Democrats have convinced themselves that Trump is merely the beneficiary of Obama’s economic legacy. But how can the critics who previously assured us that Trump’s election would cause certain calamity now explain that he’s nothing but a lucky bystander to forces beyond his control? Had the economy tumbled over the past year his critics would surely have blamed him. It’s ill grace to deny him all credit when it’s doing so well.

Many people were certainly wrong about how the economy and market would react to a Trump presidency, at least in the short-term. But it is worth remembering that the Trump platform that people were most concerned about from this standpoint -- protectionism and trade wars -- has not happened (yet).
   1777. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 20, 2018 at 09:23 AM (#5610009)
I don't get it, you support the investigation and agree there's evidence of collusion but blast others for questioning Trumps legitimacy?

He's a Republican. That's what they do. Don't take it personal, it's just business.
   1778. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5610010)
I don't get it, you support the investigation and agree there's evidence of collusion but blast others for questioning Trumps legitimacy?
Because exclaiming "I love it!" and whispering "I have more flexibility" don't constitute criminal activity and therefore shouldn't be used to initiate a constitutional crisis.*

* Particularly if some of the methods used post-election against Trump transition officials may not have been kosher.
   1779. Count Posted: January 20, 2018 at 10:09 AM (#5610012)
But whether or not it's criminal you agree it's bad and should be investigated. So what are you complaining about? (And what constitutional crisis is being initiated?)
   1780. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5610017)
But whether or not it's criminal you agree it's bad and should be investigated. So what are you complaining about?
I'm complaining because folks like you are uninterested or trying to hamper efforts to discover whether uncredible or false information and/or illegal methods were used to initiate the investigation/FISA warrant.
(And what constitutional crisis is being initiated?)
Talk to your newest pal, Max Boot.

It's beginning to look like the difference between Watergate and today is that once upon a time the media and smart set were trying to ascertain whether government was illegally investigating political opponents, not cover for it. [EDIT: And also cover for Fusion GPS, since nearly every major media newsroom seems to have chummy relationships with Simpson and his crew.]
   1781. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: January 20, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5610019)
And what constitutional crisis is being initiated?


Electing - and seating - a President who so completely ignorant of, hostile to, and truculently unwilling to respect the constitution even if you could tie him down and force him to attend a remedial course on it is, in of itself, inevitably a constitutional crisis.

This is not Lincoln suspending habeas corpus, it is not Japanese internment, it is not Teddy Roosevelt bringing into fashion the idea of executive orders, it is not even Bush legalizing torture or Obama legislating immigration by EO.

Presidents - save a few forgettable ones prior the Civil War and perhaps a few weak ones in the late 19th century - have always pushed the boundaries of executive authority. At minimum, though - underlying it all, even in the worst cases, was at least an acknowledgment and inherent understanding of the foundation of American democracy. Seeking out grey areas, legal sidesteps, and questionable avenues around prior precedent and law is different than simply not caring about what it is you are circumventing regardless of any real comprehension.

This is not simply Palin-esque ignorance, it is worse.

It drips through almost everything Trump does and says -- be it his 'jokes' about how people arrested as suspects for committing a crime should be treated, his continual reality TV struggle against the press and constant carping on libel laws, to his praise of tyrants and tyrannical regimes tempered not in the slightest by any understanding that our constitution was fashioned wholly to prevent such circumstances. This is a guy who simply wants to do whatever the hell he wants against anyone or any group perceived as an enemy and throws a hissy fit when members of his own administration balk at carrying out such directives or 'educate' him on alternatives.

The only real saving grace is that he's too scatterbrained and lazy to focus on any single avenue of provoking a lasting crisis.... so far.

   1782. Stormy JE Posted: January 20, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5610020)
Count, I think you and zonkie have much to discuss. I'll see you two a little later...

Oh, and zonkie, remember when Trump said this: "I won't pay a ransom in exchange for reopening the government."

Right, that was actually Obama in 2013. Good times, huh?

(But at least this POTUS, for all of his incredible faults, won't stop our veterans from paying their respects at the World War II Memorial.)
   1783. -- Posted: January 20, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5610023)
It's beginning to look like the difference between Watergate and today is that once upon a time the media and smart set were trying to ascertain whether government was illegally investigating political opponents, not cover for it. [EDIT: And also cover for Fusion GPS, since nearly every major media newsroom seems to have chummy relationships with Simpson and his crew.]


Fusiongate is a worse abuse of power than Watergate was.
   1784. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: January 20, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5610027)
(But at least this POTUS, for all of his incredible faults, won't stop our veterans from paying their respects at the World War II Memorial.)


On the contrary, my little vichy vajayjay - I think the best part of this shutdown is listening and watching as Republicans and their media apparatus extol the virtues of the federal government.... and every time a Mitch McConnell or a Fox News plead for government-funded insurance for kids and wring their hands over poor families losing their government-funded insurance, I get a little happier.

My bleeding heart does bleed for the deplorables suffering a case of whiplash, but this alone is worth the price of admission. Extolling the virtues of the federal government AND making the case for a public health insurance program? In the grand scheme of things -- it looks to me like the lefties have inadvertently managed to convince Republicans to climb aboard ideas that 10 years of white papers, studies, heart-tugging anecdotes, and campaigning couldn't accomplish with barely 10 hours of shutdown. Yeesh. I almost feel foolish for all that wasted effort.
   1785. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5610029)
Fusiongate is a worse abuse of power than Watergate was.
Translated.
   1786. BDC Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5610032)
Since it's the weekend, impact is minimal, and even on Monday employees will come in and pretend to shutdown operations. Effects will become more noticeable as time goes on

The New York National Guard cancelled drill this weekend, costing my son his drill pay, his civilian pay for today, and ten hours' worth of gas that he spent driving to the armory and back.

I suppose he could keep on driving and go enjoy the WW2 Memorial :)

Incidentally, Canadians, you didn't hear it here, but this would be a great weekend for a surprise invasion.
   1787. BDC Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5610036)
But on the lighter side, Libertarian presidential hopeful arrested half an hour after announcing candidacy:

Little-known presidential candidate Adam Kokesh was arrested Tuesday in Wise County [TX] and remains in jail, a situation that Kokesh is calling a “gross miscarriage of justice.”

Kokesh, a Libertarian, was stopped twice on Tuesday, within 30 minutes of announcing his plans to run for president.

Kokesh was booked into the Wise County Jail on charges of possession of a controlled substance-penalty group one and two, tampering with evidence and possession of marijuana. Bail has been set at $76,500, according to Wise County Sheriff Lane Akin.

Ben Farmer, Kokesh’s chief strategist for the presidential campaign, is in Decatur [the seat of Wise County] and said that they are asking the district attorney to reduce Kokesh’s bail to zero.

Farmer called it “extremely suspicious” that Kokesh would get pulled over “not once, but twice” after announcing his plans to run.

Kokesh, a Marine and published author, filed for president pledging “to use the Presidency to localize, liberate or liquidate all Federal Agencies.”

In a news release before his arrest, Kokesh said, “America is too good for this government. There is no reason San Francisco should be delegating laws in San Antonio and vise versa. Nobody wants that. When we localize everything, everyone gets what they want.”


Welcome to the local drug laws of Texas, Mr. Kokesh :)
   1788. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 20, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5610037)
First offer from Republicans: Let’s fund the government and pass a DREAM amnesty, as both sides want to do, and in return you give us some concessions on chain migration and the wall.

Ok, let's just stop right here. If you can't spot the obvious problem with this- even as described by a right wing source- then I don't know what to tell you.
   1789. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5610043)
And I'll ask again: Where were you in 2012?

Or 1996? The Russian 2016 effort has yet to be shown to be greater than what the Chinese did on behalf of Bill Clinton that year.
   1790. SteveF Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5610045)
Ok, let's just stop right here. If you can't spot the obvious problem with this- even as described by a right wing source- then I don't know what to tell you.

Which is the obvious problem? That Republicans should extract a concession from Democrats for something they (Republicans) want to do anyway?* Or that they really want to do it as much as Democrats?

I'd argue it's the latter rather than the former. The Republican base doesn't care about former DACA recipients being deported as much as the Democratic base, and consequently Republican politicians value DACA amnesty less than Democratic politicians. Therefore, it makes a perfectly reasonable term for negotiation. It's the same situation with CHIP.

Negotiating that way may be monstrous in the opinion of many, but it's perfectly in line with game theory.

*Edited for clarity.
   1791. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5610048)
Electing - and seating - a President who so completely ignorant of, hostile to, and truculently unwilling to respect the constitution even if you could tie him down and force him to attend a remedial course on it is, in of itself, inevitably a constitutional crisis.

Trump will likely have a better record before the Supreme Court than Obama, who lost all manner of Constitutional and statutory cases, and had one of the worst litigation records of any President. Obama attempted to illegally install his appointees without Senate confirmation (not a single Justice upheld his position), asserted that the government could suppress books & films because of their political content, and after "joking" about auditing his political opponents, his IRS gave extra scrutiny to tax exemption filings of his political opponents. Going to be tough for Trump to beat that.
   1792. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5610052)
Because liberals worship government, duh.

You can always move to Somalia.


Is that politespeak for "Somalia is a S-hole country?"
   1793. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5610057)
David: If you're past the point of having a constructive conversation on the subject of the dossier, that's fine. To my read once it comes back to Hillary and it's item after item of salacious nonsense, no reasonable, intelligent, and fair person in her shoes says "Yep -- this is all true. Let's run with it. Peddle it underground to the media and the US government." It's THAT bridge that I'm having a problem with. Anyone in Hillary's shoes with a sense of dignity and shame would have put the brakes on it. Mind you I'm not saying and have never said it was a *crime* for Hillary to proceed in the fashion that she did.

The best defense for her seems to be, "She thought it was true." That is so laughable as to not pass the giggle test.

Also, you've done a complete 180 here on your concern for the US government and warrants including FISA warrants. Now suddenly you're totally unconcerned about violations or over reaches in that area, and you're willing to assume that the government proceeded properly there, rather than your traditional default position which is to be skeptical of the government in this area. That's also a bridge too far.
   1794. BDC Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5610058)
The Republican base doesn't care about former DACA recipients being deported as much as the Democratic base, and consequently Republican politicians value DACA amnesty less than Democratic politicians

It's like "Honey, we both know how much we both really want to visit your mother. So you really should compromise and let me take that monthlong golf cruise hosted by Cowboys cheerleaders on the floating bourbon-tasting bar afterwards."
   1795. tshipman Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5610059)

I'd argue it's the latter rather than the former. The Republican base doesn't care about former DACA recipients being deported as much as the Democratic base, and consequently Republican politicians value DACA amnesty less than Democratic politicians. Therefore, it makes a perfectly reasonable term for negotiation. It's the same situation with CHIP.



I think that's misleading. Democrats have been trying to get CHIP renewed for years. There was conversation about making it permanent a while ago as part of the doc fix. Paul Ryan supported that at the time.

CHIP could have been added into the tax bill, or have it passed as a standalone bill without a payfor at any time. After the tax bill passed, it could have been done as a standalone bill without needing a payfor because it saved the government money--all at any time.

CHIP is a hostage that was specifically created for this situation. It could have been addressed at any time. Republicans are now pretending that CHIP has to be part of the deal, but that's incredibly disingenuous. CHIP was a hostage that they knowingly took because they thought it would benefit them politically.

Republicans thought that they should put children's health at risk because they wanted to be able to say that Democrats weren't willing to vote for a #### sandwich FOR A THIRD TIME in order to prevent Republicans from shooting the hostage.
   1796. Count Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5610061)
1780- I don't believe that Republican ostensible concerns about FISA abuse are in good faith; it was just a transparent "collusion? You're the colluder!" tactic to obstruct the investigation (because, again, Republicans don't care about the possibility that Trump colluded and the certainty that he obstructed justice). Hence cries of "release the memo!" by a caucus that could just release the Nunes memo if they wanted to. Granted, it's possible that the people who keep repeating a lie eventually believe it themselves.
   1797. Count Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:45 PM (#5610062)
Ray in addition to all the other things wrong with your post, there's no evidence that the dossier ever went to Hillary, right? Where did you get that?
   1798. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5610063)
Exactly which part of "salacious and unverified," uttered by James Comey in Capitol Hill testimony last year, do you not understand?

You kind of keep resting al your arguments on old information. That's a seven month old quote about a one-year old statement. Comey wasn't describing the dossier's then-current state as salacious and unverified; he was describing the intelligence community's thinking as of the time they briefed Trump on the dossier (which was before Trump was even inaugurated). He was saying, "We thought it important to brief Trump about it at that time, even though it was salacious and unverified."


And this is what makes the Hillary defense (the one proffered here by her supporters, I mean) of "I thought it was generally true" so ridiculous. Comey and his team are very well versed in this area. And upon seeing it, THEIR thought - or at least Comey's - was "salacious and unverified." THAT is how an actual professional with extensive experience in the field viewed the dossier upon presentation. But somehow we're supposed to believe that when Hillary saw it she generally trusted its contents. So either she's completely naive and stupid, or she's a complete hack who had her team run with it even though it was "salacious and unverified" on its face.
   1799. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5610064)
Where did you get that?


Out of his ass...which is filled with his wishful thoughts.
   1800. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 20, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5610066)
Page 18 of 22 pages ‹ First  < 16 17 18 19 20 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Dock Ellis
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogJordan Hicks, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. among the MLB's youth surge
(23 - 2:50pm, May 21)
Last: Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!)

NewsblogOTP 2018 May 21: President takes British royalty to a baseball game, May 15, 1991
(130 - 2:50pm, May 21)
Last: Stormy JE

NewsblogPosnanski: Modern Romonce
(19 - 2:48pm, May 21)
Last: Jess Franco

NewsblogOT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)
(4595 - 2:48pm, May 21)
Last: PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina

NewsblogDan Duquette, Orioles Understand Trading Manny Machado Seems Inevitable
(53 - 2:47pm, May 21)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogWhitey Herzog Offered Hernandez to the Mets in 1980, 2+ Years Before Trade
(1 - 2:33pm, May 21)
Last: The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie)

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (April - June 2018)
(2074 - 2:30pm, May 21)
Last: Swoboda is freedom

Gonfalon CubsPadding
(4 - 2:20pm, May 21)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

NewsblogOT: Winter Soccer Thread
(2014 - 2:19pm, May 21)
Last: Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt!

NewsblogCardinals' Jordan Hicks throws MLB's fastest pitch of the year, clocking 105 mph twice
(5 - 1:48pm, May 21)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(2234 - 1:44pm, May 21)
Last: aberg

NewsblogVHS via Leitch: Phillie broadcast commenting on impending rain delay
(9 - 1:25pm, May 21)
Last: Jess Franco

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-21-2018
(4 - 12:08pm, May 21)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

NewsblogBBTF ANNUAL CENTRAL PARK SOFTBALL GAME 2018
(81 - 12:06pm, May 21)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogOTP 2018 May 14: Political leadership, fans needed to bring baseball to Portland: Guest opinion
(1370 - 10:16am, May 21)
Last: David Nieporent (now, with children)

Page rendered in 0.7052 seconds
47 querie(s) executed