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Monday, January 15, 2018

OTP 15 January 2018:Mississippi’s anti-gay marriage law is hurting two college baseball teams

The “stick to sports” mantra took on a life of its own in 2017, as the interweaving of sports and politics was undeniable and, ultimately, angered quite a few sports fans. Still, protests during the national anthem or political tweets by athletes never actually got in the way of the action or stopped games from being played.

But politics have halted a college baseball series between the University of Southern Mississippi and Stony Brook University, a public school in New York. The two schools were scheduled to meet in a three-game series in February, but dueling declarations in each state have now made that series impossible. The kicker? It has absolutely nothing to do with baseball.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 15, 2018 at 03:13 PM | 2103 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: college baseball, off topic, politics

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   401. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5607609)
Why Clapper thinks it's fun to talk up a primary candidate who will almost certainly lose the Democratic primary by 50 points, if not much more --

Zonk seems to miss the point of #332, which was not to promote the Manning candidacy but to note the foolishness of lefty favorite Greenwald.


I thought Greenwald had fallen out of favor with the left after noting that Russia collusion to this point has been a hoax?
   402. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5607612)
Who's publishing him? He owns his own publication. He's either on the Intercept
He doesn't own the Intercept. He's the editor in chief, but it's not his money. It's Pierre Omidyar's (had to look up how to spell that last name).


EDIT: He isn't even the editor in chief, as I thought he was.
   403. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5607613)
If the lefties are now disavowing Greenwald, my work is done on that issue. Most of the links here going back to his Guardian days were from the lefties, but since they appear to have abandoned him, I assume he'll only be linked here in the future when someone is mocking him.


What work?

The evidence you never presented and I'm still waiting for?

If Clapper is disavowing David Duke, then my work is also done. Since they are abandoning him.
   404. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5607614)

I thought Greenwald had fallen out of favor with the left after noting that Russia collusion to this point has been a hoax?
Well, he couldn't "note" something that isn't true, but why would doing so put him out of favor with the left? It would put him out of favor with mainstream liberals. The left hasn't been on board with Russiagate.
   405. BrianBrianson Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5607615)
Or, we could just disavow everybody now, and have our opinions where we sometimes agree with people, sometimes partially agree with people, and sometimes disagree with people.

Imagine.

Like, candidates/politicians are different - on them you have to be yes/no, should/shouldn't have office, would/wouldn't vote for. But random guys spouting off whatever? Like - whatever.
   406. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5607616)
Another porn star has come forward to corroborate the WSJ's story on Stormy Daniels... while further details are leaking about Daniels/Trump.

Mea culpa if I got the numbers wrong - it all gets very confusing when such items tend to include both stage names and real names.

But I think it's just another single porn star, in addition to the one Michael Cohen paid to keep quiet and the other one who actually did come forward before the election and claim that Trump was offering up 10K for sex.

I would look further to confirm - I feel confidant saying it's at least 3 porn stars, but no more than 6 porn stars - but I'm actually traveling this week and in the office and, I get leery of searching such things on the company network.


Suddenly liberals think that a president's sex life is everyone's business.

Shocker, that.
   407. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5607617)

He is also an ass about it too. Preening arrogant ass about how right he thinks he is.
He is, but it's not like that's new; he's the same Glenn Greenwald he has always been.
   408. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:20 PM (#5607619)
If Clapper is disavowing David Duke, then my work is also done.
I haven't seen Clapper disavow David Duke. Must be one of his faves.
   409. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5607620)
Without characterizing the doctor, the second half of the sentence that you quoted struck me, too. It doesn't really mean anything to say that someone will remain healthy for three years in the future, beyond saying that the person is healthy now.


True but making it to 70 with no catastrophic health issues does push the life expectancy timetable back a bit, particularly for people in the US, particularly for rich people, particularly for someone who would receive the level of medical care a president does.
   410. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5607621)
The only opinion that matters re: Russia is Mueller's.
   411. Traderdave Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5607623)


Suddenly liberals think that a president's sex life is everyone's business.


And the evangelicals who crucified Clinton for getting a Bee Jay in the Oval Office are silent about their guy banging porn
stars while his wife is at home with their infant son.

Weird scenes these days.
   412. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5607624)
Drat. It had been a Bivens-free day to this point. But I guess all good things do come to an end.
   413. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5607627)
And the evangelicals who crucified Clinton for getting a Bee Jay in the Oval Office are silent about their guy banging porn
stars while his wife is at home with their infant son.


Also I don't think even you unwashed hippies are demanding Trump be removed for office for cavorting with a prostitute. You just like mocking the complete lack of any moral center from the snake-handling wing of the Republican party (which is to say, the base).
   414. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5607628)
If the lefties are now disavowing Greenwald, my work is done on that issue.

That wasn't too difficult, was it? Now if only you guys would be so willing to disavow the preening, arrogant asses on the far right, we'd be getting somewhere.
   415. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5607629)
Suddenly liberals think that a president's sex life is everyone's business.


IDK... seems germane with President Grab 'Em by the #####, no?

But regardless, I thought the reason it mattered with Clinton was dishonesty, actual perjury, and potentially sexual assault. Does that not apply to Trump? One of the porn stars alleges pay-for-sex, which I think constitutes prostitution.

Maybe you can explain which potential crimes do not apply to Trump because... Trump, I guess.
   416. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:32 PM (#5607630)
In other GOP sex news...

It looks like Eric Greitens end may be coming sooner rather later... sounds like some folks expect/know/fear that it wasn't just an affair, but that the blackmail, violence, and threat allegations may also be true.
   417. Lassus Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:32 PM (#5607632)
Surely you're not arguing that Greenwald's a favorite of conservatives, or mainstream liberals, or the alt-right, are you? And someone must like him or they wouldn't keep publishing him. So what group remains, other than lefties?

I can't believe you actually one-downed Clapper here.
   418. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5607633)
It should be written into law that presidents should be required to undergo extensive physical and mental tests once a year,

Or what?


I should have stated "all candidates", and those who refused would be barred from the ballot.

And presidents should be required to affirm under oath that they'd undergo such tests, so that if they subsequently refused they could risk being prosecuted for perjury. No wiggle room allowed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the lefties are now disavowing Greenwald, my work is done on that issue.

I've never avowed Greenwald, and in fact I don't remember reading him outside of a few articles that were linked to here.

Now if only Clapper and JE would disavow Trump. But talk about a Grin's Fairy Tale.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It should be written into law that presidents should be required to undergo extensive physical and mental tests once a year, and the complete results should always be released to the public.

I'd add to that complete & detailed disclosure of all finances, including personal & corporate tax returns. I'd also require same disclosures of Members of Congress, cabinet and Supreme Court.


Totally agree. I should've said that to begin with, along with adding "candidates" to the list. If they can't take the exposure, let them stay out of public life. We won't miss them.
   419. Lassus Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5607637)
Too old for DACA, a Michigan father is deported after three decades in the U.S.
With two immigration agents hovering nearby, Jorge Garcia pulled his family close for one final hug by security gates at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. His wife and 15-year-old daughter sobbed in his arms. His 12-year-old son stood stoically. Garcia was silent.

Soon after, the 39-year-old landscaper from Lincoln Park, Michigan, boarded a plane bound for Mexico, deported to his home country on Monday after three decades of living, working and raising a family in the United States.
Garcia received multiple stays of removal during President Barack Obama's two terms, but was too old to qualify for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, the policy created by the Obama administration to protect children of undocumented immigrants from deportation. Immigrants who were 31 or younger as of June 15, 2012, can qualify for DACA status. Anyone older is exempt.

Another Obama-era program, Deferred Action for Parents of Americans, sought to protect undocumented adult immigrants like Garcia with children who were American citizens or lawful permanent residents. The policy was blocked by federal courts.
May you fuckers drown in unhappiness.
   420. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5607638)
Surely you're not arguing that Greenwald's a favorite of conservatives, or mainstream liberals, or the alt-right, are you? And someone must like him or they wouldn't keep publishing him. So what group remains, other than lefties?

I can't believe you actually one-downed Clapper here.


Meh - 15 years ago, Greenwald was certainly cited in an approving manner in some quarters - I know he was popular on Dailykos as late as ~2004ish... but that was almost exclusively for his rhetoric on the PATRIOT Act and such - and if I cared enough to look, I bet I could find certain Paulista quarters that cited him just as approvingly. It was a big tent.

I didn't particularly care for him then - his rhetoric was tough, but his arguments weren't necessarily - but he really began to lose favor with lefty quarters as "recently" as 2007, when the Democrats retook Congress. By that point, he basically had a cheering section solely comprised of Impeachment purveyors. Obama really sent him around the bend - probably as much as many Republicans, albeit for different reasons. To be fair - I would say that his absolutism was objective and non-partisan.... extreme to the point of crazy and fantastical - but I think he applied it equally to Bush and Obama...

By the time he was became a Snowden/Assange apologist, his fanclub was basically a brew of anti-Deep Staters, NWO black helicopter sorts, and Rothschild conspiracy theorists. He's ceased to really exist on the L/R spectrum since well before Trump's election.

It's probably been a good 5-6-7 years since I've read anything from him - but the 2nd hand take I get is that he, weirdly, hasn't used his same Bush/Obama standard towards Trump... but that's secondhand and the view is certainly subject to cherrypicking, as most 2nd hand relaying is.
   421. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:45 PM (#5607639)
Suddenly liberals think that a president's sex life is everyone's business.

IDK... seems germane with President Grab 'Em by the #####, no?


Quite simply: no.

Nobody in this story claims that Trump assaulted them. Daniels hasn't commented at all. And Evans's story is that she declined to go and join Daniels and Trump, after being invited. So Evans wasn't even there. And Daniels isn't claiming nor has she claimed any assault.

So as far as we know this is about the sex lives (or non sex life in the case of Evans, as relates to this particular incident) of consenting adults.

Is Daniels's sex life being outed against her will? I suppose time will tell. If it is I expect liberals everywhere will stand up to say that her sex life should be off limits.
   422. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5607640)
But regardless, I thought the reason it mattered with Clinton was dishonesty, actual perjury, and potentially sexual assault. Does that not apply to Trump? One of the porn stars alleges pay-for-sex, which I think constitutes prostitution.

Maybe you can explain which potential crimes do not apply to Trump because... Trump, I guess.


No. There are no potential crimes here that we know of to this point.

None of the porn stars alleges pay-for-sex. The rumor is that Trump paid for confidentiality years after the fact, not for sex.

You're really desperate here. Some might say... unhinged.
   423. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5607641)
When it comes to Greenwald, I can pretty much swear on an Agnostic's Bible that without all the links to his garbage I've seen around here, I might never have even heard of him. A few of his rants can go a long way.
   424. BDC Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:49 PM (#5607642)
So as far as we know this is about the sex lives … of consenting adults

I dunno, my sex life rarely involves $130,000 in hush money. I just don't get out enough.
   425. zenbitz Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:50 PM (#5607643)
"And the winner for best actor goes to... Gary Oldman, for Darkest Hour. This is the third Oscar nomination for Gary Oldman and his first time being nominated for playing Churchill..." To the Academy, as our very own Joseph T. Bivens is fond of saying, Fuuuuck You.


I don't care about the Oscars. Or any other award shows. I don't even care about sport MVPs!
   426. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:52 PM (#5607645)
hasn't used his same Bush/Obama standard towards Trump


I've only seen him on Twitter. He's certainly not Trump friendly and think he's a corrupt bigot. However, Greenwald is also very anti-deep state, which puts him on the same page as Trump supporters frequently.
   427. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:52 PM (#5607646)
No. There are no potential crimes here that we know of to this point.

None of the porn stars alleges pay-for-sex. The rumor is that Trump paid for confidentiality years after the fact, not for sex.

You're really desperate here. Some might say... unhinged.


Drake does - she's one of the 3 to 6...

She alleged that Trump later called her and asked, “'What do you want? How much?” and then offered her $10,000 for sex. “This is not acceptable behavior for anyone, much less a presidential candidate,” Drake said at the presser.


But I know - for a Trumpkin, with so many allegations - it's hard to keep track of them all.
   428. . Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5607647)
However, Greenwald is also very anti-deep state,


Of course. He's an actual liberal.
   429. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 05:55 PM (#5607648)
hasn't used his same Bush/Obama standard towards Trump

I've only seen him on Twitter. He's certainly not Trump friendly and think he's a corrupt bigot. However, Greenwald is also very anti-deep state, which puts him on the same page as Trump supporters frequently.


That would probably explain it... I've noticed a new sort of Trumpkin evolving - or maybe it's just a change in tactics... People who order bringing down the Deep State far above anything else.

I would - alarmingly - note an increase in posts, tweets, etc (not here, but elsewhere) citing folks like the Anonymous people and sundry other anarchists.
   430. Lassus Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:00 PM (#5607649)
Knights of the Crystal Blade founders married each other's 7- and 8-year-old daughters, Utah affidavit says

John Coltharp charged with sodomy of a child.

The leaders of a fundamentalist Mormon offshoot called Knights of the Crystal Blade took each other’s daughters as child brides, according to a search warrant that was recently unsealed.
The men, Samuel Shaffer and John Coltharp, were arrested in December and charged with kidnapping after an Amber Alert was issued for Coltharp’s daughters.

Iron County Sheriff’s Office Detective Nathan Houchen detailed an interview with Shaffer in a search warrant affidavit submitted Dec. 11. Shaffer told police that he married Coltharp’s 8-year-old daughter, and that Coltharp married his 7-year-old daughter.
According to the affidavit, Spring City Police Chief Clarke Christensen was contacted by an out-of-state man who said he communicated with Shaffer and Coltharp through social media regarding Knights of the Crystal Blade.

The man said he traveled to Utah to “investigate” the religious group, according to the affidavit, was “forcefully” baptized into the church by Shaffer and was promised a child bride.

Hey quack, as long as you've shown up, you want to get behind some liberal religious freedom-seekers?
   431. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:04 PM (#5607650)
This is fun:
Yet this nugget from a new Gallup-Knight Foundation survey just about knocked the Erik Wemple Blog out of a decade-long media-research torpor:

Four in 10 [or 42 percent of] Republicans consider accurate news stories that cast a politician or political group in a negative light to always be “fake news.” [The corresponding figure for Democrats is 17 percent.]
   432. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:06 PM (#5607651)
Or what?


There's no or what. It's just commone sense. The people charged with carrying out the order undergo rigorous psycological and psyiological tests. Makes sense that the one issuing the orders should as well.

But I guess the big or what would be, what if he fails?
   433. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:08 PM (#5607652)
And presidents should be required to affirm under oath that they'd undergo such tests, so that if they subsequently refused they could risk being prosecuted for perjury. No wiggle room allowed.


Oy.
   434. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5607653)

Drake does - she's one of the 3 to 6...

She alleged that Trump later called her and asked, “'What do you want? How much?” and then offered her $10,000 for sex. “This is not acceptable behavior for anyone, much less a presidential candidate,” Drake said at the presser.



But I know - for a Trumpkin, with so many allegations - it's hard to keep track of them all.


Pretty weak, even for Zonk, that when he's utterly defeated in an argument he moves the goalposts.

Concession very much accepted.

FWIW as to your new goalpost shift Drake doesn't claim sexual assault; she claims an unwanted kiss.
   435. zenbitz Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5607654)
I *REALLY* don't care about rating actors and actresses. I think I may be the talent-equivalent of "tone deaf" when it comes to them. I mean how can you even separate -- objectively -- writing from acting from directing when viewing the performance as a gestalt? You are just left with some sort of WoWY and I guess I don't watch that many films. I guess there is a theoretical "range factor" where you can maybe say such-and-such actors are good in dramas but not comedies, but ... so what?

There are films I like and films I don't. Mostly I care about story/writing/dialogue. Secondarily visual artistry/cinematography. There are probably some cases where a perfectly cromulent screenplay+direction was ruined by some wooden post, but eh, I don't really see it. It's art. You either like it or you don't.

From my vast experience over the last 10 years of children's movies - let me tell you you can have only voice actors and still produce a moving experience or one that makes you move your bowels violently.


Also, Ray should should do a film review blog. Maybe even just a twitter feed. That would be some high comedy.

PS: I am not a crank.

   436. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:12 PM (#5607655)
Pretty weak, even for Zonk, that when he's utterly defeated in an argument he moves the goalposts.


How did I move the goalposts?

You said:

None of the porn stars alleges pay-for-sex. The rumor is that Trump paid for confidentiality years after the fact, not for sex.


I replied with Drake, a porn star, who said -

She alleged that Trump later called her and asked, “'What do you want? How much?” and then offered her $10,000 for sex. “This is not acceptable behavior for anyone, much less a presidential candidate,” Drake said at the presser.


Is it your eyes, your typing, your reading comprehension or your vernacular regarding "moving goalposts" that needs a thorough exam?
   437. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:14 PM (#5607656)
Ohh.... wait... I get it.

It was only attempted solicitation.... like how one cannot really just engage in attempted obstruction or attempted murder or there is no Nobel prize for attempted chemistry.
   438. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5607658)
So why did you say greater scrutiny if you actually meant fewer?

Surely, you've arrived at your conclusions regarding careful consideration and reflection on what you think immigration means to America -- not just a superficial ingestion of the branding being implemented either without caring about the reality or worse, actively being just a quieter nativist.... right?
Fewer is a probable consequence of greater scrutiny to applicants coming from those countries.

It may surprise some that the United States is not wedded to unfettered immigration. I'm generally in favor of higher levels but don't believe a poem on the side of the Statue of Liberty takes precedent over legislation, not to mention the Constitution.
   439. Traderdave Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:16 PM (#5607659)
She alleged that Trump later called her and asked, “'What do you want? How much?” and then offered her $10,000 for sex.


If he was really a billionaire he'd have bid higher than 10 grand.
   440. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:21 PM (#5607660)
Fewer is a probable consequence of greater scrutiny to applicants coming from those countries.

The United States is not wedded to unfettered immigration. I'm generally in favor of higher immigration levels but also don't believe a poem on the side of the Statue of Liberty takes precedent over legislation, not to mention the Constitution.


Perhaps it is.

My proposal put zero requirements - quotas, limits, preferences, etc - on the ultimate consequences. We get fewer Norwegians, too.

Besides, assuming that you're working your way through the last couple pages so just to save you the trouble -- I already offered a compromise for your greater scrutiny. As I said, Germany or Pakistan; Israel or China - so long as appropriate oversight is included, I think I've addressed your terrorism and espionage concerns.

So.... we have our Grand Immigration Bargain?
   441. Lassus Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:21 PM (#5607661)
If he was really a billionaire he'd have bid higher than 10 grand.

Many, many very rich people are very cheap. Many are NOT, of course, but in my experience, more are.
   442. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:22 PM (#5607662)
Just for the record, JE still can't bring himself to say that Trump is a racist. JE, who's clearly no racist himself, is a perfect surrogate for the current moral state of his once and forever party.
OK, whose turn is it to stop by the pharmacy to pick up Andy's Zoloft medication?
   443. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:24 PM (#5607663)
Ohh.... wait... I get it.

It was only attempted solicitation.... like how one cannot really just engage in attempted obstruction or attempted murder or there is no Nobel prize for attempted chemistry.


That wasn't my argument at all. I really don't know what tree you're trying to bark up here.
   444. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:26 PM (#5607664)
That wasn't my argument at all. I really don't know what tree you're trying to bark up here.


Then if you're not doing some parsing regarding pay-for-sex vs offer to pay-for-sex..... what goalposts did I move? I was prepared to acknowledge that technicality, but if that ain't it - then I'm confused.
   445. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:27 PM (#5607665)
FWIW - and not-a-lawyer - I might be amendable (subject to stringent oversight and some sort of transparency) to letting JE define a watch list of nations from we might be at greater risk of potential terrorists (be it - whatever word we're supposed to use now - Islamists? from Pakistan or neo-nazis from Germany) or greater risk of espionage (be it Russia, Israel, or China) exists and ask such immigrants to accede to certain levels of higher monitoring.

Probably a lot of legal tangles in such an idea- I won't pretend to be versed in them beyond the general civil liberties protections I understand to be afforded American citizens (and even there, bow to our legal overlords).... likewise, I'm not entirely comfortable with that - but I could probably get there if the appropriate level of oversight is maintained.

However, in the interests of reaching a compromise - because after all, we're all solely interested in adding good, contributing citizens to the country regardless of origin or race, right? - I might be willing to make this actual trade-off.

You know, where trade-off is defined specifically as compromising on a point you actually make and believe in.
FFS, zonkie, are you *still* clinging to the belief that neo-Nazis in Germany are anywhere near an equal threat as Islamic extremists? And did you really just list Israel in the same breath as Russia and China?

Get serious, then maybe we can talk.
   446. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:33 PM (#5607666)
Then if you're not doing some parsing regarding pay-for-sex vs offer to pay-for-sex..... what goalposts did I move? I was prepared to acknowledge that technicality, but if that ain't it - then I'm confused.


I said neither Daniels nor Evans claims that he offered money for sex.

You then brought up Drake.

I don't know the legalities of whether offering money for sex to someone who's not selling sex would be "attempted solicitation." But that was not my argument in any event.
   447. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:33 PM (#5607667)
I couldn't possibly care less what Trump or anyone else does with a prostitute. And that's not Ray "not caring", that's none of my business not caring.

The only way anything matters would be along the lines of "he's denied it and there's proof it's true" but we are so far beyond believing that the Truth and Trump live in the same hemisphere that there isn't much point.
   448. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:36 PM (#5607668)
Ray: "None of the porn stars alleges pay-for-sex."
Daily Beast: "She alleged that Trump later called her and asked, “'What do you want? How much?” and then offered her $10,000 for sex."
Goalposts: apparently dormant.
   449. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:46 PM (#5607672)
And did you really just list Israel in the same breath as Russia and China?


JUANABOUT ISRAEL?

The document also said that a 2013 National Intelligence Estimate on cyber threats “ranked Israel the third most aggressive intelligence service against the US” behind only China and Russia, Newsweek reported.


Hmmmm, JUANABOUT that?
   450. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:47 PM (#5607673)
FFS, zonkie, are you *still* clinging to the belief that neo-Nazis in Germany are anywhere near an equal threat as Islamic extremists? And did you really just list Israel in the same breath as Russia and China?

Get serious, then maybe we can talk


Actually, I'm *still* clinging to the idea that you meant what you've said and you're actually being honest about a racial/religious/cultural test not being a part of your immigration beliefs.

If I am in error, then so be it. Regardless of my beliefs - I've already consented to the idea that the consequences of this agreed-upon higher scrutiny would lead to less immigration from these countries.

So what's the problem?

As for inclusion of Israel with China and Russia - I guess I could have/should have also included Cuba and South Korea.... but I was relying on analysis of the PERSEREC database - a dated report and another here. If there's a better source for which countries have been the recipients of espionage conducted in the US - so be it... I'll read it.

Interestingly enough - the studies also break break down attempted espionage by all manner of categories... and it's pretty clear that it is straight, white men to be most feared. We'd be better off with more black lesbians.
   451. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:52 PM (#5607676)
Actually, I'm *still* clinging to the idea that you meant what you've said and you're actually being honest about a racial/religious/cultural test not being a part of your immigration beliefs.
OK, now I'm intrigued. What evidence are you confronted with suggesting that a "racial/religious/cultural test" exists?
   452. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:55 PM (#5607678)
or there is no Nobel prize for attempted chemistry.

Yeah, but there really should be. I mean, how awesome would that be?
   453. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:59 PM (#5607681)
OK, now I'm intrigued. What evidence are you confronted with suggesting that a "racial/religious/cultural test" exists?


The fact that I proposed a "merit" based system completely blind to country of origin... and upon your objection regarding terrorism/espionage - have tentatively proposed a specifics TBD application of enhanced 'scrutiny' regarding those immigrating from nations on a supplied watch list. Just to be clear, though - our watch list is going to be built from good, old-fashioned data. You decide - top 3, top 5, or top 10 countries in the category of espionage or terrorism - and we'll be taking that list regardless of preconceived notions of which countries should be on it and which should not be.

If this does not work, then I am at loss as to why my completely agnostic to region/country/etc proposal does not pass muster. The only hint of national origin I introduced, I did so at your suggestion.

What else are missing to agree on our new Immigration Plan where immigrants are awarded points based on a system of achievement and contribution while they are merely legal residents under whatever various visa proviso?
   454. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 16, 2018 at 06:59 PM (#5607680)
Jessica Drake ... Alana Evans ... Stormy Daniels


Are we sure we're getting the full truthful story about Donald Trump and Cherry Starburst?
   455. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:01 PM (#5607682)
As for inclusion of Israel with China and Russia - I guess I could have/should have also included Cuba and South Korea.... but I was relying on analysis of the PERSEREC database - a dated report and another here. If there's a better source for which countries have been the recipients of espionage conducted in the US - so be it... I'll read it.
Maybe you can show us exactly where in either of these publications Israeli-Americans are anywhere near as likely as Russian, Chinese, Cuban, and Korean emigres to engage in espionage?
   456. zenbitz Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:09 PM (#5607684)
The worst "actor" is Nick Cage. You can always see the mannerisms, the gears working.


See - the is what I am talking about. Blah Blah mannerisms Blah Blah method. The scene in Moonstruck "I ain't no freakin' monument to justice" - AWESOME. In Vampire's Kiss '..... "I'm a Vampire... somebody kill me!!!". HILARIOUS. Pretty much every scene in Lynch's Wild at Heart. RAISING ARIZONA. Leaving Las Vegas. None of these movies were ruined by the presence of Cage, and probably most of them were enhanced by him.

OK, so he plays mooks. Movies need mooks - you need a Mook -- Nick Cage is your guy. He has been in a lot of terrible films to be sure, but so has Michael Caine.

PS: I love Shatner. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is one of the best Sci-Fi movies ever made.

   457. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:12 PM (#5607686)
Donald Trump's presidential physician, describing Trump's fantastic health to the press:
"It's called genetics. I don't know. Some people have, uh, you know, just great genes. I told the president that if he had a healthier diet over the last 20 years, he might live to be 200 years old, I don't know. I mean, uh, he, uh, he has incredible, uh, he has incredible genes, I just assume, I mean, you know."
   458. zenbitz Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:15 PM (#5607687)
You're jerked out of the film and know that he's simply acting.


Maybe that's my problem. I never get that immersed in anything on a screen or stage. Probably due to an ill-spent youth watching 1000s of hours of 80s slasher / horror flicks.
   459. BDC Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:15 PM (#5607688)
None of these movies were ruined by the presence of Cage, and probably most of them were enhanced by him

For that matter, Keanu Reeves, whose idea of acting seems to be to get heavily stoned during principal photography, didn't ruin Speed, which is good fun, and The Matrix, which is genuinely interesting and sort of iconic.

It is a collaborative artform, for sure. But I also think it's fun to pick out the collaborators and appreciate them (or not) for their individual contributions. Kind of an inside-baseball thing, for sure.
   460. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:18 PM (#5607690)
Maybe you can show us exactly where in either of these publications Israeli-Americans are anywhere near as likely as Russian, Chinese, Cuban, and Korean emigres to engage in espionage?


Starting on page 62 - as I understand, the database in question analyzed contains only UNlassified instances (note - the data refers to cases, I don't find it broken down by individuals).... so the data is limited - 150 total cases - but among non Soviet bloc countries - Israel (2), South Africa (2), and the Philippines (3) are the only nations designated neutral or friendly powers with multiple instances.

Your Bulgarians are in the clear, though!

Again - though - we're going to rely on data to designate our espionage risks. I'm sure the best data is not freely google-able. So - we'll defer to the NSA/DNI/CIA/whatever to provide us with the agnostic risk list of nations. However it comes out is fine by me.
   461. zenbitz Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:20 PM (#5607691)
Those are different mediums. Are there any theatrical films that are 3+ hours that you think are worth sitting through?


Dude we used to watch the Godfather I/II 8-hour chronological resplice in 1 sitting. Buncha candy-asses in here.
   462. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:24 PM (#5607693)
Just to be clear, though - our watch list is going to be built from good, old-fashioned data.
What are you trying to say here?

And back up a sec, what in particular do you oppose in the Cotton-Perdue legislation? I'm not opposed to the bill but would like to see a higher number of visas awarded per fiscal year and hope that family/chain immigration levels wouldn't be cut so drastically.
   463. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5607694)
Sadly, though - I have to depart for a work dinner thing...

But if we're done with our tangents and ultimately settled on a nation-blind immigration system - with an exception for professionally defined lists of risk nations where applicants for immigration will agree to some form of extraordinary monitoring - with citizenship granted and/or legal status renewable based on a merit-based points system comprised of various 'points' awarded for achievement, contribution, and service....

Then by all means, put your stamp on it and I'll talk to my people... you talk to yours.

And voila - we've got ourselves a deal.
   464. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5607695)
   465. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:32 PM (#5607697)
Great timing...

Jennifer Griffin:
Jerry Chun Shing Lee, aka Zhen Cheng Li, 53, a former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer, was arrested last night on charges of unlawful retention of national defense information.
   466. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:35 PM (#5607699)
And back up a sec, what in particular do you oppose in the Cotton-Perdue legislation? I would like to see a higher number of visas awarded and hope that family/chain immigration can be phased out over several years.


All of it.

I oppose awarding "points" awarded to immigrants who COME WITH a degree, as it is an obvious preference towards countries with higher availability of higher education options. If you want, I suppose I might be OK with immigrants using prior-to-immigration "points" on a degree basis. But - my plan simply wouldn't punish those emigrating from countries WITHOUT such opportunities on a broad scale, as your racist plan does.

I oppose the inclusion of SPEAK ENGLISH - which also has the same purpose.... preference towards certain European nations.

And finally, I oppose the "just write us a check"/how big is your salary provisions. I can think of no better way to get the laziest, least ambitious, and less "meritorious" than simply letting the kids of crooked oligarchs buy their citizenship.

There is literally nothing I like about it.

   467. Traderdave Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:37 PM (#5607700)
   468. BDC Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:41 PM (#5607705)
The Onion is reporting that Stormy Daniels paid $130,000 to cover up the shame of having sex with Donald Trump.
   469. Greg K Posted: January 16, 2018 at 07:46 PM (#5607706)
Eep. So you're not a fan of Canada's immigration system I take it, zonk.
   470. SteveF Posted: January 16, 2018 at 08:00 PM (#5607712)
Eep. So you're not a fan of Canada's immigration system I take it, zonk.

He doesn't want to belong to any country that will accept people like him as a member.
   471. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 16, 2018 at 08:01 PM (#5607714)
Followup to Trump's official physical fitness report: https://twitter.com/dwiebe99/status/953385786275127296
   472. OCF Posted: January 16, 2018 at 08:03 PM (#5607715)
I was checking the Google news feed and a story popped up - the version I read was from USA Today - about a new bunch of knuckleheads who want to split California. It was the usual bilgewater - the "coastal elites" have made the state into an ungovernable hellhole, so said elites should be left to their own devices while "New California" forms its own state. They seemed to be reading their own version of a Declaration of Independence. Of course it's going nowhere, and this seemed more pathetic than most. But what caught my eye was the map of counties that was in that USA Today article. Now maybe this isn't exactly the split these guys intend - but if it was, I don't think they actually calculated what they were getting in for. In particular, their "New Calfornia" included the following counties:

Santa Clara: 2016 results Clinton 73%-21%, net margin 370,000
San Diego: 2016 results Clinton 57%-36%, net margin 260,000
Contra Costa: 2016 results Clinton 69%-25%, net margin 200,000
Sonoma: 2016 results Clinton 70%-23%, net margin 109,000
Orange: 2016 results Clinton 51%-43%, net margin 102,000
San Bernardino: 2016 results Clinton 53%-42%, net margin 70,000

Clinton carried all 14 of the counties left behind and 19 of the 44 counties of "New California" - but the Trump counties were on average much smaller in population.

Overall, this split the state fairly close to evenly - maybe they wanted to do that, hence the weird map. "New California" went for Clinton in 2016 by 56%-40%, a net margin of about 1.1 million, and it went for Obama in 2012 by 53%-45% and net margin of over 500,000. And of course you know what the left-behind state (presumably still "California") did in both elections.
   473. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 16, 2018 at 08:05 PM (#5607717)
Just for the record, JE still can't bring himself to say that Trump is a racist. JE, who's clearly no racist himself, is a perfect surrogate for the current moral state of his once and forever party.

OK, whose turn is it to stop by the pharmacy to pick up Andy's Zoloft medication?


It'll take a lot more than Zoloft to cure what's ailing you and your party. You're scared of your own shadow.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And back up a sec, what in particular do you oppose in the Cotton-Perdue legislation? I would like to see a higher number of visas awarded and hope that family/chain immigration can be phased out over several years.

All of it.

All you have to do to figure out why to oppose that bill is to look at the names of the bill's sponsors.
   474. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 08:11 PM (#5607720)
There is literally nothing I like about it.
So, basically, you want a merit-based system that doesn't consider merit at all, but instead... well, I went back and read your 339, and I don't have the foggiest idea what you want. You want immigration based on what they do in the U.S., which sort of violates the temporal flow since we don't know what people do in the U.S. until after we admit them. Well, you sort of address that in 339, by saying that the immigrant has to "lay[] out what/why they want to come to America to do," only I don't understand what that means. I mean, I guess it would screen out the people who say, "I want to integrate myself into society until I get into a position where I can commit a terrorist act" or "I think your country's welfare system is great and I intend to collect as much of it as I can while sitting on my couch," but for the 99.999% who aren't complete morons, how do you plan to distinguish between the ones who recite, "I want to go to school and get an advanced degree and then get a good job and save up money and start a business" and the ones who recite, "I want to go to school and get an advanced degree and then get a good job and save up money and start a business"? You're not testing for merit; you're testing for the recitation of a script. (We already see that with asylum seekers.)

And you don't want to actually admit people likely to succeed, since you oppose screening for having an education and/or ability to speak English (because you mistakenly think it's "racist.")


EDIT: Your understanding of the concept of racism is screwy, but in any case, you mispredict how this would work. Europe generally is a pretty nice place to live; most people from there don't want to leave their home and move here. If you prioritize education and English ability, you're going to disproportionately get Indians, not Italians.
   475. Lassus Posted: January 16, 2018 at 08:36 PM (#5607727)
Chrissy Teigan, international treasure, has offered to pay every cent of the $100,000 fine that McKayla Maroney would be forced to pay if she breaks her NDA with USA Gymnastics and speaks out at Nassar's sentencing.
   476. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 08:40 PM (#5607729)
Shame on Chrissy Teigan for supporting a mafioso like McKayla Maroney.
   477. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5607730)

So when Donald Trump refuses to live up to his contractual agreements, it's terrible; when someone you like better does it, well, no big deal.
   478. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 08:57 PM (#5607734)

By the way, it has now been a month since the FCC ended net neutrality; I guess the U.S. is now a ########.
   479. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5607736)
By the way, it has now been a month since the FCC ended net neutrality; I guess the U.S. is now a ########.


We all remember a month after ACA was signed and you realized that the US had not become a socialist hellhole and you retracted everything.
   480. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:04 PM (#5607737)
Presented as a public service, the Montreal Cognitive Assessment test that Trump took as part of his medical examination, in case anyone feels the need to compare scores.
   481. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:09 PM (#5607740)
DPRK News Service:
235 pound reported weight for portly US president Donald Trump draws widespread international mockery.

Marshal Kim Jong-Un weighs in at healthy 170 kilograms.
Love the photo too.
   482. BDC Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:10 PM (#5607741)
the Montreal Cognitive Assessment test that Trump took as part of his medical examination, in case anyone feels the need to compare scores

I saw a horsey.
   483. Count Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:10 PM (#5607742)
So when Donald Trump refuses to live up to his contractual agreements, it's terrible; when someone you like better does it, well, no big deal.


I'm not very familiar with NDAs - is it normal for them to be enforceable against somebody testifying in this manner? If she was subpoenaed (my intuition is this would not happen for testimony at sentencing) then surely she would have to testify regardless of the NDA. Weird that it would be treated differently here.

If the NDA really does "bar" her from testifying here then USA Gymnastics would probably not seek to enforce it, right? Terrible PR for what already seems like a dirtbag organization. And if they did actually seek to enforce it, and there is a $100,000 penalty for breaking it that is enforceable, and Maroney pays the penalty, then that's fine; you'd think a libertarian wouldn't object to people paying agreed-to penalties pursuant to a contract. IIRC one of the tenets / purposes of contract law is allowing parties to break contracts and make the other party whole with as little friction as possible.
   484. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:13 PM (#5607746)
Phil Kerpen:
Democratic filibuster to shut down the government if they can't have the Dream Act is the identical play to what Cruz did in 2013 on Obamacare repeal. Cover it the same way.
   485. Lassus Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:20 PM (#5607749)
So when Donald Trump refuses to live up to his contractual agreements, it's terrible; when someone you like better does it, well, no big deal.

If the piano dealer had stuck his fingers up Baron's ass 15 or 20 times, I would certainly have no trouble with Trump not paying said piano dealer, yes.

Anything else?
   486. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5607755)
Democratic filibuster to shut down the government if they can't have the Dream Act is the identical play to what Cruz did in 2013 on Obamacare repeal.


When did the GOP lose its majority?
   487. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5607759)
Good gravy:
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Cost estimate for first phase of California bullet train climbs by 35 percent, to $10.6 billion.
UNPOSSIBLE.
   488. Stormy JE Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:48 PM (#5607760)
When did the GOP lose its majority?
Filibusters. How do they work? :)
   489. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 16, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5607763)
Filibusters. How do they work? :)


If the GOP wants to compromise then they should say so. Maybe not blowing up the bipartisan negotiated immigration deal by the President would be a good start. Oops.

Anyway feel free to negotiate ... or not. There will be fallout, someone will be blamed. I think it will be the majority party, but hey, who knows. All goes to negotiating advantage I guess.
   490. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5607767)
I'm not very familiar with NDAs - is it normal for them to be enforceable against somebody testifying in this manner? If she was subpoenaed (my intuition is this would not happen for testimony at sentencing) then surely she would have to testify regardless of the NDA. Weird that it would be treated differently here.
Well, you are correct that a subpoena would generally override an NDA -- but this is, according to my understanding, a voluntary statement she wants to make, not a response to a subpoena.

If the NDA really does "bar" her from testifying here then USA Gymnastics would probably not seek to enforce it, right?
I would suspect not, for the p.r. reasons you cite -- as well as the fact that the cat is already out of the bag at this point; it would serve little practical purpose to enforce it.

And if they did actually seek to enforce it, and there is a $100,000 penalty for breaking it that is enforceable, and Maroney pays the penalty, then that's fine; you'd think a libertarian wouldn't object to people paying agreed-to penalties pursuant to a contract.
The doctrine of efficient breach is an economics doctrine, not a moral one. A $50 fine for jaywalking may be economically identical to a charge of $50 for the right to cross the street whenever one wants, but that doesn't mean they're actually the same thing. One includes a liquidated damages clause in a contract because it's hard to measure actual damages, not because one is authorizing the other party to pay that amount of money for the privilege of breaching.
   491. Shredder Posted: January 16, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5607768)
Shame on Chrissy Teigan for supporting a mafioso like McKayla Maroney.
If only she spelled her last name Moroni, we could say she was a real fargin icehole.
   492. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5607769)
So when Donald Trump refuses to live up to his contractual agreements, it's terrible; when someone you like better does it, well, no big deal.

If the piano dealer had stuck his fingers up Baron's ass 15 or 20 times, I would certainly have no trouble with Trump not paying said piano dealer, yes.

Anything else?


Lassus, your analogy has nothing to do with the issues present here.
   493. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 16, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5607770)

Amazingly, not a word of 489 is actually responsive to what Jason wrote.
   494. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 16, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5607777)
Amazingly, not a word of 489 is actually responsive to what Jason wrote.


<Yawn>

Jason, you, and I know where he was going, don't be dumb. Democrats are the party of big government, remember? We don't have some deep hatred of the government and a desire to shut it down every five minutes, that is you* guys.

So, as in every other time in the history of the US we will end up with negotiations between the two sides which will result in the government either not shutting down or in starting up again.

I was skipping all the boring crap and getting to the actual heart of the matter. This is all about negotiation. Who has what leverage, who wants what. If you think it is about anything else, if you really think my post was not responsive to the situation, then you are way dumber than I normally give you credit for.

* You know who you are.
   495. bookbook Posted: January 16, 2018 at 11:05 PM (#5607788)
he doctrine of efficient breach is an economics doctrine, not a moral one. A $50 fine for jaywalking may be economically identical to a charge of $50 for the right to cross the street whenever one wants, but that doesn't mean they're actually the same thing. One includes a liquidated damages clause in a contract because it's hard to measure actual damages, not because one is authorizing the other party to pay that amount of money for the privilege of breaching.


Are libertarians opposed to the concept of civil disobedience? Arguably, that’s what breaching this contract would equate to.
   496. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 16, 2018 at 11:31 PM (#5607798)
not so mellow mouse in #494, which I agree 100% with. It's a bad bit when the GOP gets all "you can't play politics".

In a similar vein (GOP cuts / neglects governance then says it doesn't work) 9 park service advisory board members quit today. Now, I know the national parks are something most people take for granted now -- but would you believe the Trump admin is trying to raise car fees up to $80! (!!!) a day in some places? And they won't even meet with the board, (which is required) to discuss the parks?

What a ####### joke this admin is. It makes the Bush admin, with its similar disdain for small but well doing divisions of the federal government, look downright benevolent and caring.

not because one is authorizing the other party to pay that amount of money for the privilege of breaching.


let's keep it civil around here, alright? nobody is doing any breaching let alone paying for the privilege.
   497. Lassus Posted: January 16, 2018 at 11:56 PM (#5607800)
Lassus, your analogy has nothing to do with the issues present here.

But somehow David bringing up Donald Fuckface defaulting on subcontracted GC services fits right in to compare with an NDA on child molestation, right? Sure.
   498. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 17, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5607801)
What a ####### joke this admin is. It makes the Bush admin, with its similar disdain for small but well doing divisions of the federal government, look downright benevolent and caring.


Had you guys been nicer to the Bush admin and their supporters when it counted perhaps we wouldn't have gotten Trump.

(Though again, it would be quite a feat for Trump to end up as a worse president than Bush. Iraq alone basically ensures that Trump couldn't plausibly be worse.)
   499. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 17, 2018 at 12:05 AM (#5607802)
A party holding majorities in both houses can vote to fund the government whenever it wants. Just not this party holding majorities in both houses. For reasons having nothing to do with that diabolical shutdown-happy minority.
   500. greenback slays lewks Posted: January 17, 2018 at 12:12 AM (#5607803)
Great timing...

Jennifer Griffin:

Jerry Chun Shing Lee, aka Zhen Cheng Li, 53, a former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer, was arrested last night on charges of unlawful retention of national defense information.

The tweet does not cover the full oddness of this story. Li worked for the CIA from 1994 until 2007, and then apparently moved to Hong Kong. Gee, no red flags there. The articles I've found are otherwise silent about his activities during the period between 2007 and 2012. He came back to the US in 2012, and the FBI went through his luggage at his hotel rooms (plural, as in at a hotel in Virginia and a hotel in Hawaii), and found the aforementioned unlawfully retained documents, incontrovertible evidence of intentions of espionage... and they let him go. Li was last in the US in 2013. He came back on Monday for whatever dumb reason, and he was arrested.

I just imagine lots of people saying in English and Chinese that "that plan is so crazy, it just might work."
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