Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, October 16, 2017

OTP 16 October 2017: Sorry, Yankee fans: Trump’s claim that he can ensure victory simply isn’t true

As is sometimes the case with Trump’s tweet’s, his claims don’t hold up. We identified 14 games that Trump has attended since 1988, including two preseason games and the game above. Of those 14 games, the Yankees won eight and lost six — 57 percent of the time during seasons when the Yankees won 60 percent of their games overall.

In other words — Trump might be a jinx.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 16, 2017 at 07:49 AM | 1967 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, playoffs, politics, yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 16 of 20 pages ‹ First  < 14 15 16 17 18 >  Last ›
   1501. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:20 AM (#5558855)
1493: You omitted from those last two footnotes the fact that chief of staff Kelly also corroborated the congresswoman's statements about what Trump had said; he just spun them differently.


Given the unambiguous statements from a general who lost a son in combat, the list *is* the derangement. Sanity, OTOH, is reading the Times story about Kelly's remarks, digesting them, nodding, and moving on.

The great thing about the sane approach is also that it's far more efficient. It has much to recommend it, and therefore I reiterate the recommendation.
   1502. BrianBrianson Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:21 AM (#5558856)
I think David is mostly right on this. Healthy people seeing the doctor is mostly a waste of time and money. The US spends $8 billion on check-ups. There is no real evidence that this helps.


Go back and look at the data - it's somewhere between helpful and cost-neutral, a bit hard to measure. Healthy people mostly aren't seeing the doctor, except to get cost-saving preventative medicine (vaccinations & birth control).

We're mostly adult men here - how many of us see doctors regularly? In the last decade I've been to a doctor once, because Pennsylvania makes you take a physical to get a driver's licence (which I did pay entirely out of pocket for). Two decades? Swollen lymph nodes that persisted for a month (I just had toxoplasmosis, so it wasn't necessary or cost-saving, but I probably couldn't have figured that out on my own), and once for headaches stemming from a Berry Aneurysm (and indeed, if I'd just suddenly dropped dead, that would've been cheaper for my health care provider than seeing a doctor - but if I'd stroked and been crippled - very much not). Maybe the odd flu shot here or there, which wasn't cost-saving for me in all likelihood, but probably was for overall costs.
   1503. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:24 AM (#5558858)
This is cheerful. Global pollution is the world's biggest killer and a threat to survival of mankind, study finds

The report by the Lancet Commission on Pollution and Health blames pollution for an estimated 9 million premature deaths, about 15 times more than all wars and other forms of violence. It concludes that pollution "endangers the stability of the Earth's support systems and threatens the continuing survival of human societies."

More than 40 researchers from governments and universities worldwide worked on the study funded by the United Nations, the European Union and the United States. The Lancet is a weekly peer-reviewed general medical journal.


Alarm over decline in flying insects

Scientists have long suspected that insects are in dramatic decline, but new evidence confirms this.

Research at more than 60 protected areas in Germany suggests flying insects have declined by more than 75% over almost 30 years.

And the causes are unknown.


Unknown, but maybe I can take a guess.
   1504. BrianBrianson Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5558862)
But even on a personal, patient level -- it's actually a problem, too. Dr. Berwick had done tons of research and was a strong advocate of this same idea -- that patient centered care means the first and foremost concern should be the patient's quality of life and patient's wishes... that is to say - that just because something (like a knee) can be replaced, even at age 85, the decision -- and the advocacy of physicians -- ought not to be so wholly centered on the idea of "well, we can do it. It's covered. Let's do i


This was one of the biggest upshots of being on the NHS - they weren't looking to maximise revenue. It was especially notable with dentists. Previously, my dentist knew exactly what my insurance covered, and harassed me into visiting for checkup/cleaning as often as it was covered. I moved to England - got a checkup when I registered with the dentist. Cost me twelve quid - he said my teeth were great and I should #### off. Never hassled again.
   1505. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5558863)
We're mostly adult men here - how many of us see doctors regularly?


I used to go every year, then my Doctor told me not to bother, to instead go every other year. So I do. Next year I am on it.

Note: I did stop by a urgent care for a weird rash, allergic reaction this year, but in most years nada. I am boringly healthy, which is both lucky and awesome.
   1506. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:27 AM (#5558864)
Doctors "over proscribe"* such things for a variety of reasons, mostly boiling down to "better safe than sorry" and "patients prefer it that way".
1) You mean prescribe, not proscribe. They probably do the latter, too, but it doesn't cost the same.
2) Patients prefer it that way because they're not paying for it.
   1507. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5558870)
I propose we all start referring to TGF as "Enoch" going forward.
   1508. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5558871)
We're mostly adult men here - how many of us see doctors regularly?


I'll do a semi-annual checkup. More likely bi-annual. Most of my doc time is spent explaining joint injuries at this point. CVS provides annual flu shots for free.

Of course, this whole "adult men" thing is a pretty big caveat. Preventative screenings and such are much bigger deals for womens' health. But, you know, Trumpistan. #### a #####, right?
   1509. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5558876)
But even on a personal, patient level -- it's actually a problem, too. Dr. Berwick had done tons of research and was a strong advocate of this same idea -- that patient centered care means the first and foremost concern should be the patient's quality of life and patient's wishes... that is to say - that just because something (like a knee) can be replaced, even at age 85, the decision -- and the advocacy of physicians -- ought not to be so wholly centered on the idea of "well, we can do it. It's covered. Let's do it


Well I believe the alternative approach is referred to as "death panels". You don't want death panels do you?
   1510. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5558879)
1) You mean prescribe, not proscribe.


I am having a hard time this mourning*. Thanks.

* On purpose.
   1511. PepTech Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5558882)
Keeping a timeline in the face of the unambiguous statements of a US general *is* the derangement.
Is this general credible too?
He calls Mr. Trump's response [in PR] slow and small. Honore was hailed as a hero after he went into the Gulf states after Katrina and put the relief efforts in order.

"Y'all looking at a damn calendar in Washington. I'm looking at a damn watch," he said.
Additionally, the statements of the General Kelly have nothing to do with the timeline. The only reason a timeline is remotely interesting is illustrating when the check was sent (only after the pledge became public). The *other*, completely separate issue is Trump's inelegance on the call. Kelly didn't actually help Trump with this unambiguous statement (emphasis added):
"In his way," Kelly said of Trump, he "tried to express that opinion -- that (Johnson) is a brave man, a fallen hero."
Kudos to Trump for attempting a call so far out of his wheelhouse. I had to tell my wife that her mother had passed away from a sudden and unexpected heart attack - that was hard enough; I can't imagine ever being "good" at breaking this kind of news. But if the best you can do is translate "He was doing exactly what he wanted to do when he was killed. He knew what he was getting into by joining that 1%. He knew what the possibilities were because we were at war. And when he died he was surrounded by the best men on this earth, his friends," into "he knew what he signed up for, but I guess it still hurt," then maybe you should delegate that particular task in the future, or get yourself a teleprompter.
   1512. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:38 AM (#5558884)
2) Patients prefer it that way because they're not paying for it.


Not entirely. People prefer active measures "Run a cool scientific test" over passive ones "let's monitor it". And if people paid the freight they would likely under utilize or in any event utilize it wrong. Because people suck at personal risk analysis. A lot. So they trust doctors, trained professionals, to do it for them. Because they like their doctor.
   1513. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:38 AM (#5558885)
Additionally, the statements of the General Kelly have nothing to do with the timeline.


Invoking Kelly's statement lubes the holster for SBB to get more of it down.
   1514. BrianBrianson Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5558886)
Preventative screenings and such are much bigger deals for womens' health.


Is this actually true? My overall impression is that it's primarily the need for birth control that makes adult women turn up at the doctor's office. Maybe a bit of gendered conditioning that makes them more averse to dropping dead for preventable reasons, but mostly the former.
   1515. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5558888)
Who says conservatives are not funny?

Speaker Paul Ryan, during last night's 72nd annual Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation white-tie dinner, which always draws top politicians, and includes a comedy routine for New York elite (via AP and NYT):

"Enough with the applause ... You sound like the Cabinet when Donald Trump walks into the room."
"I don't think I've seen this many New York liberals, this many Wall Street CEOs in one room since my last visit to the White House."
"I know why Chuck [Schumer] has been so hard on President Trump. It's not ideological; Chuck is just mad he lost his top donor."
On Trump's remarks to the dinner last year: "Some said it was unbecoming of a public figure and they said that his comments were offensive. Well, thank God he's learned his lesson."
"The truth is, the press absolutely misunderstands and never records the big accomplishments of the White House ... Look at all the new jobs the president has created — just among the White House staff."
"Every morning I wake up in my office and I scroll through Twitter to see which tweets I will have to pretend I didn't see later on."
"Every afternoon former Speaker John Boehner calls me up, not to give advice, just to laugh."


Link.
   1516. Traderdave Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5558890)
This was one of the biggest upshots of being on the NHS - they weren't looking to maximise revenue. It was especially notable with dentists. Previously, my dentist knew exactly what my insurance covered, and harassed me into visiting for checkup/cleaning as often as it was covered. I moved to England - got a checkup when I registered with the dentist. Cost me twelve quid - he said my teeth were great and I should #### off. Never hassled again.


Are British dental standards what we should aspire to?
   1517. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5558891)
Additionally, the statements of the General Kelly have nothing to do with the timeline.


Yeah, I know. I've said that two or three times. That's why the timeline *is* the derangement.
   1518. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5558895)
Not entirely. People prefer active measures "Run a cool scientific test" over passive ones "let's monitor it".
Not to repeat myself, but no. People prefer the former because they're not paying for it.

And if people paid the freight they would likely under utilize
Which would show that you're wrong when you discuss people's preferences.
or in any event utilize it wrong. Because people suck at personal risk analysis. A lot. So they trust doctors, trained professionals, to do it for them. Because they like their doctor.
No, they don't trust doctors to do it for them; in fact, doctors will tell you all the time that people demand the more elaborate treatment even when the doctor says its unnecessary or premature; hell, they demand antibiotics even when they have viral infections. Again: because they're not paying for it. And doctors go along because otherwise juries (who are also not paying for it) may decide later that the doctor should've done more.
   1519. Hot Wheeling American Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:46 AM (#5558897)
No smackdown intended, honestly, just some background. Texas is so large and diverse that it can amaze even Texans the sorts of things that go on here. If I were to learn that Texas leads the US in ballet schools, or alligators, or ice-hockey rinks, or native speakers of Serbo-Croatian, it would be par for the course.

BCD's a wonderful, kind, caring man -- maybe even more so than me. There have been times when I lost patience with him -- even lashed out at him! -- but this man has turned every cheek on his body. If everyone here were like BDC, there'd be no need for heaven: we'd already be there.
   1520. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5558899)
1471

this most recent round of derangement over the phone calls is an abject embarrassment.


You may have forgotten this, Bear, in all the hubbub, but Trump brought it up.
   1521. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5558902)

Are British dental standards what we should aspire to?


The Big British Book of Smiles ... never gets old!
   1522. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5558904)
I propose we all start referring to TGF as "Enoch" going forward.


That's an absolutely fascinating - and tragic, sad, surreal, etc - read... more than just for the obvious allusions to certain OTP elements. Highly recommended.

I don't think TFA itself can have justice done with pure quotes, so just sticking with the throwaway line -- I think it's actually a bit of a three-way fight between three posters to get the Enoch title....


Gradually, he learned to insulate himself with jokes and insults. He was clever, and found strength in contrarianism. His ideology shifted over time, but his approach was always the same: exposing and attacking the flaws in commonplace arguments, often without any sense of proportion. Even when he agreed with someone’s opinion, he still loved to engage in rhetorical battle—not to advance any particular agenda, one of his relatives told me, but “to stir up resentment. He strikes me as someone without a core, who only knows how to oppose and who chooses his positions based on what will be most upsetting to people around him.”

* * *

Gradually, he and his wife stopped going out with their friends from Bushwick, then stopped going out much at all. Instead they stayed home, playing video games or reading on their laptops. Mike E. spent hours in political-debate forums on Facebook and Reddit, where he let his contrarian side run wild. Online, no one was keeping track of his opinions. No one even knew his name, or what he looked like. It felt like another video game. Sometimes he would stake out a seemingly indefensible position, then see if he could invent an argument to back it up.

* * *

It was obvious to him that the country was profoundly off track, and that both major political parties were morally and intellectually bankrupt. The only question was which utopian system should replace the current one. He read books by Noam Chomsky and articles on antiwar.com, which published critiques of American foreign policy from the far left and the far right. He dabbled in leftist anarchism, but discovered glaring flaws in the ideology; after that, he became a Trotskyist. One Saturday, he later wrote, he found himself at a meeting “in a run down YMCA in Brooklyn with a group of middle-aged Jewish public school teachers.” They were discussing what stance to take on Islamic terrorism. “An overwhelming sense of loathing washed over me like an awesome wave,” he wrote. “The people I was around suddenly seemed twisted and horrible. A revelatory religious experience is the closest thing I can compare this experience to.”
He began reading books by Ayn Rand, Murray Rothbard, and Ludwig von Mises, the grandfather of libertarianism. For a few years, he was an enthusiastic and doctrinaire libertarian. He started a blog called the Emptiness, where he wrote posts such as “Socialism Is Selfish” and “Taxation Is Theft.” Through online debate forums, he met a few like-minded friends—a painting contractor from upstate New York, an E.M.T. from Virginia, a devout Christian from Tennessee. They called themselves “post-libertarians,” though they weren’t sure what would come next. In a private Facebook group, they debated the merits of various micro-ideologies—paleoconservatism, neo-reaction, radical traditionalism—and made jokes that were too self-referential or too offensive to share with the wider public. Each time Mike E. adopted a new world view, he was able to convince himself that his conversion was rational, even inevitable

* * *

He thought he had carefully examined each of his beliefs, reducing them to their most fundamental axioms. But here was an axiom so fundamental that he hadn’t even articulated it to himself, much less subjected it to logical scrutiny. Now that he thought about it, he wasn’t sure why he should assume that all people were equal. Maybe they weren’t. If this was a textbook definition of racism, then so be it—maybe racism was true. “They’re ####### religious fanatics,” he said later, of liberals like his former self. “They believe in the equality of human beings like a Muslim believes that he has to pray five times facing Mecca, or like a Southern Baptist hates the devil. . . . If you’re a liberal, you’ve never thought twice, you’ve never reconsidered, you’ve absorbed what you were taught in the government schools and by the TV.”
   1523. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5558905)
Not to repeat myself, but no. People prefer the former because they're not paying for it.


Of course they are paying for it. Or is health insurance free where you come from?

EDIT: When you go to an all you can eat buffet, you have paid for the food, even that second plate and the extra dessert you didn't really need.
   1524. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:58 AM (#5558906)
Not to repeat myself, but no. People prefer the former because they're not paying for it.

Of course they are paying for it. Or is health insurance free where you come from?
Really stupid argument on your part. You should have at least raised the issue of copays or deductibles. Because for the vast majority of people, health insurance costs the same whether they go to the doctor once a day or once a decade. It's marginal costs that count, not absolute costs.
   1525. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 20, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5558908)
So then why are those policies even being offered in the first place, since they do little good to anyone who gets sick but wasn't run over by a buffalo herd?

Your premise is utterly wrong, probably because you know absolutely nothing about the topic but are pretending to be an expert based on having read a single column in the WaPo. They do good for anyone who actually suffers a catastrophic health problem, which is what the entire concept of insurance is designed for. They don't pay for day to day maladies, any more than car insurance covers routine auto repairs or for filling up the gas tank.


Quiet as it's kept, there are stages of illness that lie somewhere between "day to day maladies" and being stampeded by buffaloes. And if those interim crises aren't covered because you don't have the cash to meet the deductible or the co-pay, your policy is effectively worthless.

EDIT: coke to BDC in #1485

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think David is mostly right on this. Healthy people seeing the doctor is mostly a waste of time and money. The US spends $8 billion on check-ups. There is no real evidence that this helps. We waste peoples time and money. And to show it is not all dollars and cents, there is a lot of false positives, where people undergo medical procedures that are unnecessary (see mammograms and prostate tests for examples). People undergo surgeries which have a lot of downside (time money pain, side effects, surgical complications) for no known benefit.

There are exceptions for younger and older people, plus people who have to monitor conditions.


[Emphasis added by me.]

Of course everyone at some point will pass through those first two stages, and many others will often find themselves in the third. Medicare covers us geezers, but the world is full of people in the other two categories who often wake up to discover that being young and healthy on Friday doesn't guarantee that you'll be young and healthy on Saturday.

But the point is NOT that everyone should automatically get annual checkups regardless of the fact that they're generally fit and symptom-free. The point is that insurance policies shouldn't only cover you on those Fridays of your life, and that insurance policies that only cover those Fridays aren't worth the paper they're written on if and when Saturday comes around.
   1526. Morty Causa Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:00 AM (#5558910)
Preventive medicine pointless and worthless? Many underlying medical problems and diseases are asymptomatic at earlier stages, stages where those problems could be more easily treated by less extreme methods (like surgery). Think of cholesterol and plaque in your arteries. HBP is for the most part asymptomatic. Simple blood work tells a lot. My chronic myeloid leukemia was detected at a regular check-up. At the time I was doing 50 hours of hard exercise a month. 7-8-9 cycling classes, plus weights. I sure didn't seem sick. My disease was detected in the chronic phase. It would have been very different had it not been caught until I was in the accelerated or (heaven forfend) the blast phase.

EDIT: I think Jolly Old references my point, if you can machete your way through the Amazon Jungle of his rhetorical construction. Say, a store brand diet Coke.
   1527. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:03 AM (#5558914)
And if those interim crises aren't covered because you don't have the cash to meet the deductible or the co-pay, your policy is effectively worthless.
No more than your homeowners' insurance being worthless because it pays you if there's a fire but not if your kid spills a big can of paint on the carpet. If you can't afford a deductible or co-pay, then you're just getting pure welfare.
   1528. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5558915)
Is this actually true?


It's generally known. I'm willing to hear evidence against and modify my Dothraki position as required.

My overall impression is that it's primarily the need for birth control that makes adult women turn up at the doctor's office.


Well, yeah. But that's a pretty damned big issue for women. Avoiding life long parasitic vultures attaching themselves to your guts is a real thing.

Maybe a bit of gendered conditioning that makes them more averse to dropping dead for preventable reasons, but mostly the former.


Birth control. Mammograms. If female centered contraception were available OTC the field would be leveled some, probably.
   1529. manchestermets Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5558916)
It's the rise of the nutters!


Hey, The Death of Stalin is out today! This could be enough to get me into a cinema for the first time since The Grand Budapest Hotel came out.
   1530. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:06 AM (#5558918)
Really stupid argument on your part. You should have at least raised the issue of copays or deductibles. Because for the vast majority of people, health insurance costs the same whether they go to the doctor once a day or once a decade. It's marginal costs that count, not absolute costs.


And an all you can eat buffet costs the same if you have a single leaf of lettuce or eat for five hours straight. And yet in both cases you have paid for it. Pretending it was not paid for is really dumb. It is being paid for.

And that is before the opportunity cost is figured in. A while back I had a heart health scare, and even though I was sure I was OK, the Dr. insisted I go in for several extra tests. Those tests didn't directly cost me money, but they took a fair amount of time, time I could have been billing for. Still I trusted the doctor, because duh.

So yes, I had those extra tests, and I paid for them in premiums (and maybe copay, I don't actually remember) and in time spent. It is not a case of tragedy of the commons, because health care is not some pasture we can all graze our sheep on. It costs money, and that money comes from premiums, copay, and also from the government, which surprise comes from taxpayers like me. So yes I paid for those tests. Promise.

EDIT: What I think you are trying to say is my marginal cost was not the same as my marginal benefit. If that is what you mean then say that. You will not be wrong then.
   1531. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5558920)
Birth control. Mammograms. If female centered contraception were available OTC the field would be leveled some, probably.


Also female plumbing and hormonal systems are (duh) not the same as men's and are (AFAIK) more complex and a bit more likely to need medical intervention. (Spoiler Alert) Men and women are not the same biologically, even if in most circumstances we should treat them the same.
   1532. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:10 AM (#5558924)
Texas is so large and diverse that it can amaze even Texans the sorts of things that go on here.


Contrary to what you've heard about Alabama, Texas absolutely leads the nation in pig-#######.
   1533. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:15 AM (#5558926)
And if those interim crises aren't covered because you don't have the cash to meet the deductible or the co-pay, your policy is effectively worthless.

No more than your homeowners' insurance being worthless because it pays you if there's a fire but not if your kid spills a big can of paint on the carpet.


So a can of paint on a carpet is your point of comparison to a potentially life threatening symptom that hasn't yet become catastrophic. Well played!

If you can't afford a deductible or co-pay, then you're just getting pure welfare.

Ah, yes, WELFARE: The word that conjures up nightmares for pidgin libertarians** that no Stephen King could possibly replicate. Your concern has been duly noted.

** A category that excludes such writers as Friedrich Hayek, one of the idols of the Austrian school of economics who saw nothing incompatible between freedom and universal health insurance.
   1534. Morty Causa Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5558927)
Often, by the time you're symptomatic, it's too late (or you have a much worse problem to deal with).
   1535. BDC Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5558928)
We're mostly adult men here - how many of us see doctors regularly?

I'm 58 now and I pretty much didn't see a GP (or equivalent) in my 40s and early 50s (and not very often before that).

In the past couple of years I have found a good internal-medicine doctor who has me return every 3-6 months. It is the age when you start to need your various systems monitored. So far I see value in these monitorings. I had a family history of diabetes, for instance, and it is important to know that I am not developing it at the moment, etc. As Morty says, you don't want to wait till you're symptomatic.

But generally, if you are still relatively young, feel healthy and have no family-history concerns, I wouldn't think annual checkups are much use, and I reckon I am walking proof.
   1536. manchestermets Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5558929)
Men and women are not the same biologically


But what about the fake leftists in my head saying that they are?
   1537. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5558931)
Despite my argument with David, there is a case to be made that health care should be more ala carte and less buffet style. However in both methods the consumer is paying for their health care.
   1538. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5558932)
Mouse buried the lede of that Axios link. Keep this graph in mind next time Ray and the boys tell you the fights for equality are "over."
   1539. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5558934)
Despite my argument with David, there is a case to be made that health care should be more ala carte and less buffet style.


This would require that providers actually post prices beforehand, publicly, and that they provide to the public the same "actual cost" pricing they give insurers today.
   1540. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5558935)
Are there still people who think that Ray/SBB aren't trolls? The only possible alternative is that they sincerely believe the coincidence that the day the Washington Post spoke to Chris Baldridge was the same day for which a Trump staffer had, four months previously, entered "Send $25,000 cheque to father of fallen soldier" into the schedule.


No. You've completely misrepresented my position. I agreed from the beginning that the timing of the check being sent was directly related to the WaPo story. In my second post on the topic I said "I agree he probably sent the check today."

   1541. Morty Causa Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5558936)
Males lead in 19 or the top 20 indicators of mortality. And it ain't close.
   1542. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5558937)
File under: blind squirrel, nut:


The “Yes Means Yes” bill was a big deal when Jerry Brown, the governor of California, signed it into law in 2014. Among other things, it made California the first state to pass an “affirmative consent” law (New York and Connecticut followed), which lays out rules for college students to engage in ongoing agreement while having sex. Essentially, it requires all parties to get consent for each touch each time; silence can not be interpreted as consent. Now, it seems, Brown is not so certain about what has been wrought. This week, in an unexpected move, Brown vetoed a new bill that would have broadened the definitions and rules regarding alleged sexual misconduct for students attending California colleges and universities.

The now-defunct bill would have codified into law controversial guidance issued by the Obama administration’s Department of Education on Title IX—the federal law that forbids gender discrimination in education. Some of that Obama-era guidance was recently rescinded by Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, who said it had created a “failed system,” one that has not brought fairness either to accuser or accused. In a letter explaining his veto, Brown wrote he could not endorse the bill because of troubling concerns that have arisen in recent years. He noted that since he signed Yes Means Yes, “thoughtful legal minds have increasingly questioned whether federal and state actions to prevent and redress sexual harassment and assault—well-intentioned as they are—have also unintentionally resulted in some colleges’ failure to uphold due process for accused students.”


The Atlantic
   1543. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:29 AM (#5558938)
I don't think Ray is quite at SBB levels; he's not denying that the check was sent because of the WaPo inquiry. He's just pretending it doesn’t matter, because after all the check was sent and that's all that counts. Ray is taking the position that the shoplifter who puts stuff back on the shelves after he realizes the security guard saw him stuffing it in his jacket isn't guilty of a crime, because after all he never got it out of the store.


This analogy doesn't work, because shoplifting is a negative thing, while promising to hand someone $25,000 and then not getting around to it yet is not.

Where Ray is full-on troll, though, is pretending that people criticized Trump for sending the check, when he knows full well that people are criticizing Trump for not sending the check.


No, you're criticizing Trump for not having sent the check YET, at the time the WaPo story broke.

The sending of the check erases the not sending of the check yet. This was all charity, a gift, out of the goodness of Trump's heart -- or if not goodness then whatever the hell was in his heart because I don't know and neither do you. But the point is that he did a nice thing that he didn't have to do, and so for people to then #### all over him because they don't like the way this went down is utter lunacy.

What is it you're fond of saying? "All complaints about process are substantive." That's what's going on here. People are complaining about process, because what they really don't like is Trump.
   1544. Satan Says Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:29 AM (#5558939)
Keep this graph in mind next time Ray and the boys tell you the fights for equality are "over."

The question is "Whose fight?" Women will wait forever if it's up to a crew of white knights and sensitive guys who really just want to get in their pants, too.
   1545. Morty Causa Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:31 AM (#5558940)
1542:

Did the bill provide for the issuance of a personal notary public to every male and female?
   1546. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:32 AM (#5558941)
This would require that providers actually post prices beforehand, publicly, and that they provide to the public the same "actual cost" pricing they give insurers today.


Heh, I am not saying I agree with it, just that despite the fact David wasn't articulating it very well, there is a case to be made. I think the whole arena is complex enough that the uneducated and ignorant (ie. the vast majority of health care consumers) shouldn't be left totally to their own devices, even if there was more transparency in the existing marketplace (which as you correctly point out is anything but transparent).
   1547. BrianBrianson Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5558942)
Birth control. Mammograms. If female centered contraception were available OTC the field would be leveled some, probably.


It's not clear birth control really needs that kind of doctoral intervention, and mammograms are being pushed back more e.g.,

And of course, as noted, basically every kind of avoidable death is more likely to happen to men than to women. The idea that women need more medical care doesn't stand up to the obvious questions. Women are getting more health care, but they're getting better health outcomes. So that they're getting more healthcare ain't evidence they need more healthcare.
   1548. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5558943)
A
re British dental standards what we should aspire to?


Perhaps not.

   1549. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5558944)
1493: You omitted from those last two footnotes the fact that chief of staff Kelly also corroborated the congresswoman's statements about what Trump had said; he just spun them differently.


Kelly "spun them" sanely.

I never disputed that Trump said the words Wilson said he said. I disputed that those words were negative or that he was trying to insult the dead soldier or his wife. I disputed the deranged notion that Trump was trying to offend people in that call. Which is exactly what Kelly's "spin" was.

I also guessed that Trump had said other stuff during the call to put that statement in even more context but that Wilson was too enraged to notice that he said it.
   1550. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:44 AM (#5558945)
And of course, as noted, basically every kind of avoidable death is more likely to happen to men than to women.


I am not sure that much of that can be properly considered when discussing medical care outcomes (regarding preventative visits). Violence, accidents and such are not really addressed by preventative care. In order to analyze the issue properly one would have to do a fairly extensive analysis of the data, sorting by a number of factors.

It is likely the analysis has been done, but I don't think rough guesses here are going to do it proper justice.

Note: From personal experience some women's health issues really do drive costs in an absurd fashion. Years ago there were sextuplets (I think it was) and that event ended up costing millions of dollars in total. The health Care Economics folks had to hard code their analysis to exclude that person for most of their work, because otherwise that single event basically distorted everything. Handling outliers in medical cost is an issue, they drive a large portion of the costs and yet ...

EDIT: For English
   1551. PepTech Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:44 AM (#5558946)
No, you're criticizing Trump for not having sent the check YET
Although I'm not as willing as you are to give DJT the *complete* benefit of the doubt, I agree with you that the Good outweighs the Clumsy.

Thank you for *finally* including the "not...YET", which turns your statement into a legitimate difference of opinion, as opposed to an outright untruth. Not sure why it took so long, but even small steps are appreciated. It "bears" repeating that only one person here has criticized Trump for SENDING the check.

   1552. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM (#5558949)
This analogy doesn't work, because shoplifting is a negative thing, while promising to hand someone $25,000 and then not getting around to it yet is not.


Casual, instinctual lying in order to aggrandize yourself is. Which is what people are pointing out about Trump (for the 23 millionth time.)
   1553. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM (#5558950)
1549

I disputed the deranged notion that Trump was trying to offend people in that call.


I don't think Trump was necessarily trying to offend anyone on the call, but the off-hand, thoughtless remark was at best insensitive.

Especially coming from a perceived draft dodger... I know, I know: college, bone spurs, etc. But Pop Pop's money went a long way, didn't it?

And I have an idea you put "deranged" in there on purpose to be provocative, but the notion that he was trying to offend is a little deranged...
   1554. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5558952)
So to recap this week in Trumpworld:

On Monday, Trump was asked why he hadn’t commented on an ambush in Niger that claimed the lives of 4 Green Berets 12 days earlier*. In his response**, he claimed he called the families of fallen soldiers “when it’s appropriate” and “If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn't make calls — a lot of them didn't make calls.”***

While investigating Trump’s claim**** the Washington Post talked to the father of a fallen soldier. The father said in June, Trump promised to send him a check since the father didn’t receive any of the soldier’s death benefit and have his aides set up a fundraising account, but still hadn’t. After the story was published, the White House was asked to comment; the response was “The check’s in the mail”.*****


So, to recap, Trump claimed that he called the families of fallen solders, and when WaPo went to look for families of fallen soldiers Trump had called, they... found some such families, including this father, who confirmed that Trump had indeed called him.

Now -- was WaPo then satisfied reporting that and ending the story there? No, the story became that Trump was an a^^hole. Because he hadn't yet gotten around to handing a grieving military father $25,000.
   1555. PepTech Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5558953)
I never disputed that Trump said the words Wilson said he said. I disputed that those words were negative or that he was trying to insult the dead soldier or his wife. I disputed the deranged notion that Trump was trying to offend people in that call. Which is exactly what Kelly's "spin" was.
Citation, please. Who ever said Trump was trying to insult or offend on that call? Just like Kelly, I totally agree that Trump *tried* to do the right thing, he just did it inelegantly. Which should have surprised exactly no one.

I'm with you on the whole thing being overblown, here and in the media. But Trump is at least partially to blame for that, with his "BEST POTUS EVAH" and accusation of "fabrication", which we both agree is untrue. I don't know the answer to this question: Did Wilson, even in the height of her outrage, claim that Trump "intended" to insult, or just that he did it casually?
   1556. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5558954)
I don't think Trump was necessarily trying to offend anyone on the call, but the off-hand, thoughtless remark was at best insensitive.


Of course he wasn't trying to offend anyone. He was simply blind to the possibility that he might offend someone, or that his words might need to be more delicately chosen, because Donald Trump has literally never had a thought about another person that was not first couched in the question "how does this stroke the ego of Donald Trump."
   1557. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:52 AM (#5558955)
No, you're criticizing Trump for not having sent the check YET, at the time the WaPo story broke.

The sending of the check erases the not sending of the check yet. This was all charity, a gift, out of the goodness of Trump's heart -- or if not goodness then whatever the hell was in his heart because I don't know and neither do you. But the point is that he did a nice thing that he didn't have to do, and so for people to then #### all over him because they don't like the way this went down is utter lunacy.


The most reasonable interpretation of the events is that the check was never going to be sent, until knowledge of the promise became public. At that point Trump had no choice but to send the check. Whether he never intended to send it, or simply forgot, takes away greatly from his initial generous offer. One should follow through on promises made, and one should not have to be shamed in public to do so. But, the check was sent*, and good for him.

I guess the pushback from my perspective comes from the WH indignant reaction to the WaPo story, as if it was none of their business, when by all reasonable interpretation, the check never would have been sent if not for the story. They could have hendled their response much better, and this would have been a non-story. But getting indignant that the press reported on a story that the multi-billionaire (the latest Forbes 400 lists Trump with a 3.1 billion net worth) President, apparently reneging on a promise to give a tiny, tiny fraction of his wealth to a needy father of a fallen soldier, well, that's going to invite blowback, bigly. Once again, Trump and his spokespeople are their own worst enemies.

*apparently. I won't truly believe it until there's proof, but I would amazed if it hadn't. Even the Trump WH can't be that tone deaf.
   1558. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5558956)
And as if to drive the final nail in this coffin of derangement:

Mr. Kelly said that he had advised Mr. Trump that presidents generally do not directly call family members of slain service members, and he confirmed that Mr. Obama had not called him when Lieutenant Kelly was killed — as Mr. Trump had alluded to this week.

Uh, that proves the opposite of what you think/pretend it does.


Kelly does confirm that Trump said the words that bizarrely sent Wilson into orbit. But that's not the point, as I never disputed that Trump said the words. The key takeaway from this is right there above: "Mr. Kelly said that he had advised Mr. Trump that presidents generally do not directly call family members of slain service members." So unless you think Kelly is lying -- and sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if you do -- that appears to be where Trump got the notion that presidents generally do not directly call family members of slain service members. Which is what started this whole dustup.
   1559. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5558957)
The most reasonable interpretation of the events is that the check was never going to be sent, until knowledge of the promise became public.


It's unnerving that this has to be stated aloud. This is brutally ####### obvious. Trump was in a position he didn't like (dealing with people who can't enrich or advance his interests.) He was uncomfortable having to discuss a dead child with its mother. He ran off at the mouth, as he is ALWAYS want to do, and because he would gladly kill off one of his spawn for 25k, he told the grieving mother he'd send her a check. The call with the mother ended, Donald Trump forgot everything about it immediately (because he didn't actually care about it to start with) and the "promise" of a check disappeared into the ether. Later, the conversation was reported publicly and the PR spinners jumped on it and cut a check (almost certainly out of one of his scam "charities") in order to convince useful idiots such as Ray that it was always going to be over.
   1560. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5558958)
1558

... that appears to be where Trump got the notion that presidents generally do not directly call family members of slain service members.


It would have been a neat trick for FDR, I'll grant ya...
   1561. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5558961)
It's unnerving that this has to be stated aloud. This is brutally ####### obvious. Trump was in a position he didn't like (dealing with people who can't enrich or advance his interests.) He was uncomfortable having to discuss a dead child with its mother. He ran off at the mouth, as he is ALWAYS want to do, and because he would gladly kill off one of his spawn for 25k, he told the grieving mother he'd send her a check. The call with the mother ended, Donald Trump forgot everything about it immediately (because he didn't actually care about it to start with) and the "promise" of a check disappeared into the ether. Later, the conversation was reported publicly and the PR spinners jumped on it and cut a check (almost certainly out of one of his scam "charities") in order to convince useful idiots such as Ray that it was always going to be over.


Father, not mother.
   1562. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5558962)
I think Presidents should be spending their time doing more important things - like preventing future deaths - than calling the family of every fallen service member. I get the symbolic and other importance of it, but honestly I think it kind of wrong and dumb, but in the best way possible.
   1563. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:02 PM (#5558963)
It would have been a neat trick for FDR, I'll grant ya...


And an even better one from Lincoln.
   1564. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5558965)
... that appears to be where Trump got the notion that presidents generally do not directly call family members of slain service members.

It would have been a neat trick for FDR, I'll grant ya...


This is a neat and subtle little rhetorical trick that you should not fall for. This is not a case of one of four service members dying as one of hundreds or thousands on a declared battlefield. This is a case of a soldier dying in an ambush attack outside of any formerly declared war zone. The case of La David Johnson has more in common with the Benghazi attacks than deaths of service personnel in theater.
   1565. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5558967)
Father, not mother.


Okay. Noted.
   1566. tshipman Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:09 PM (#5558969)
The key takeaway from this is right there above: "Mr. Kelly said that he had advised Mr. Trump that presidents generally do not directly call family members of slain service members." So unless you think Kelly is lying -- and sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if you do -- that appears to be where Trump got the notion that presidents generally do not directly call family members of slain service members. Which is what started this whole dustup.


Again, everyone agrees on the facts. Presidents unfortunately are not able to personally call every service member's family who dies, particularly in times of high casualties.

That wasn't what Trump said.

Trump said the following: “If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls. A lot of them didn’t make calls. I like to call when it’s appropriate, when I think I am able to do it,”

That is both a criticism of Obama, and implicit praise for himself. Both parts of that were what drew criticism.
   1567. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5558972)
That is both a criticism of Obama, and implicit praise for himself. Both parts of that were what drew criticism.


Right. It comes off as "I make calls because I'm better than that mean doody-head Obama..."
   1568. PepTech Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5558975)
So unless you think Kelly is lying -- and sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if you do -- that appears to be where Trump got the notion that presidents generally do not directly call family members of slain service members. Which is what started this whole dustup.
Ray, again, I get there's extra hysteria over criticizing Trump, and we here and the media should probably tone it down some. But you're whitewashing here.

Kelly telling Trump that presidents generally do not directly call family members is not the issue. The issue was Trump needing to say that he is BETTER than other POTUS, and calling them out by name. As has been pointed out, no one would really have expected Obama to call Kelly direct, and we don't know whether or not he called the widow. But even if he hadn't, why on Earth would Trump need to introduce this topic to the public at all?

The answer, of course, is that it's a mechanism to deflect from answering the actual question, which involved providing details about the Niger ambush - which Trump probably would have screwed up even worse. And yes, I do find that the ability to simultaneously manage the details of multiple complex issues to be an important skill in a competent POTUS, and sadly lacking in our present version.

He could have said that details on the ambush were still under investigation and that it was improper at this time to discuss it. Instead he made a choice to turn grieving military families into yet another competition he has to "win", at the expense of previous POTUSs and the families themselves, who will now face a lot more media scrutiny directly related to their pain.
   1569. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:23 PM (#5558976)
I disputed the deranged notion that Trump was trying to offend people in that call.

I don't think Trump was necessarily trying to offend anyone on the call, but the off-hand, thoughtless remark was at best insensitive.


If he wasn't trying to be offensive then we're arguing over precisely nothing.

Especially coming from a perceived draft dodger... I know, I know: college, bone spurs, etc. But Pop Pop's money went a long way, didn't it?

And I have an idea you put "deranged" in there on purpose to be provocative, but the notion that he was trying to offend is a little deranged...


Yes, it is. Which is why I called it deranged. And people here hold just that notion: that he was trying to offend. Because if he wasn't trying to offend then no sane person beats him up over it.

Are people here now claiming that they DON'T think he was trying to offend? If so, then just WTF are you attacking him for?
   1570. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5558978)
I'm with you on the whole thing being overblown, here and in the media. But Trump is at least partially to blame for that, with his "BEST POTUS EVAH" and accusation of "fabrication", which we both agree is untrue. I don't know the answer to this question: Did Wilson, even in the height of her outrage, claim that Trump "intended" to insult, or just that he did it casually?


You don't get outraged to begin with unless you think he was trying to offend.

Unless.You.Are.Insane.
   1571. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5558979)
1569

If so, then just WTF are you attacking him for?


Seeming unfeeling, uncaring, insensitive and stupid.
   1572. tshipman Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5558980)
Yes, it is. Which is why I called it deranged. And people here hold just that notion: that he was trying to offend. Because if he wasn't trying to offend then no sane person beats him up over it.


But he clearly was trying to offend with his comments comparing his calling Gold Star families to Obama.

That opens him up to criticism that he did a shitty job when calling those families.
   1573. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:28 PM (#5558981)
1568

why on Earth would Trump need to introduce this topic to the public at all?


Bingo!
   1574. PepTech Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:28 PM (#5558982)
Are people here now claiming that they DON'T think he was trying to offend? If so, then just WTF are you attacking him for?
Are you saying it's OK to call people n*gg*r and ch*nk and r*gh**d because you're merely being descriptive, and not trying to offend?

What Trump said isn't nearly as offensive, it was "merely" insensitive. I'd prefer our leaders to be a notch above Archie Bunker - some of his best friends were blacks (Solomon Jackson was even a Jew, too!).
   1575. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5558984)
The most reasonable interpretation of the events is that the check was never going to be sent, until knowledge of the promise became public.


That's a pure guess.

(Nor was this any of WaPo's business, or anyone else's.)

--

It's unnerving that this has to be stated aloud. This is brutally ####### obvious. Trump was in a position he didn't like (dealing with people who can't enrich or advance his interests.) He was uncomfortable having to discuss a dead child with its mother. He ran off at the mouth, as he is ALWAYS want to do, and because he would gladly kill off one of his spawn for 25k, he told the grieving mother he'd send her a check. The call with the mother ended, Donald Trump forgot everything about it immediately (because he didn't actually care about it to start with) and the "promise" of a check disappeared into the ether. Later, the conversation was reported publicly and the PR spinners jumped on it and cut a check (almost certainly out of one of his scam "charities") in order to convince useful idiots such as Ray that it was always going to be over.


Is Sam commenting despite not knowing the first thing about any of these stories? He's conflating two different stories with a third different story. He seems to be confusing the father of one fallen soldier with the wife of another fallen soldier with.... well, I don't know which mother he's referencing.
   1576. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5558985)
Trump said the following: “If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls. A lot of them didn’t make calls. I like to call when it’s appropriate, when I think I am able to do it,”


It seems what he was trying to say is that much of the time they didn't make calls. Which is essentially what Kelly told him. It just got lost in the game of telephone because Trump isn't good at remembering details and articulating them.

In other words, this is much ado about nothing, as it often is.
   1577. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5558986)
1561:
Father, not mother.


1565:
Father, not mother.


Okay. Noted.


1575:
well, I don't know which mother he's referencing.



announcing the arrival of Sir Raymond the Disingenuous!
   1578. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:36 PM (#5558987)
1576

Trump isn't good at remembering details and articulating them.


Such an admirable trait in the Leader of the Free World...
   1579. Satan Says Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:36 PM (#5558988)
“Everyone who was close to Harvey had heard of at least one of those incidents” chronicled in the first few articles, he said. “It was impossible they didn’t.”

except Meryl Streep.

I appreciate Tarantino's belated regrets.


Isn't it great how Tarantino is off the hook here despite knowing what Weinstein did to his girlfriend and continuing to profit handsomely from their professional relationship, and then saying "everybody did it", while that old crone Streep who nobody wants to #### anyway, who wasn't Weinstein's buddy regardless, and who makes the reasonable comment that she had no personal knowledge of Weinstein's private activities is once again lashed as his enabler.

Maybe because we've either been in or can identify with Quentin's ethical quandary, but never that ##### who had the temerity to lash Trump after the AH tape came out.

It's still a man's, man's world, and will thus always be if we have anything to do with it.
   1580. PepTech Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:37 PM (#5558989)
Are people here now claiming that they DON'T think he was trying to offend?
Yes, Ray. It's possible to offend without trying to. Where possible, we should be willing to learn from our missteps. You need to cite a specific post or stop repeating this lie.

Of course, this is compounded by every jackalope getting offended by everything anyone says these days. But still.
   1581. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:39 PM (#5558991)
The problem, Ray, is that Trump doesn't have to *try* to be offensive. It just comes second nature to him. It's part of his unrestrained sociopathy.
   1582. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:40 PM (#5558992)
That's a pure guess.


It's a logical assumption. Especially given what we know about Trump's past behavior. Trump promised to give $25,000, a large amount of money to most people, but Trump isn't most people. Based on the Forbes 400, Trump has an estimated net worth of about $3.1 billion. That's over 2000 times more than me, so Trump promising to give $25,000 is like me promising to give $12.50. If I promised to give someone $12.50, and 4 months later I hadn't, the logical assumption is that the money is never coming without some further action. And that's not even considering Trump's long history of stiffing people out of money owed and promised in the past.

Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable with that assumption.
   1583. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5558995)
It seems what he was trying to say is that much of the time they didn't make calls. Which is essentially what Kelly told him. It just got lost in the game of telephone because Trump isn't good at remembering details and articulating them.

In other words, this is much ado about nothing, as it often is.


Other than having a President who isn't good at remembering details and articulating them I suppose.
   1584. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5558996)
That's a pure guess.


It's no more a pure guess than predicting that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning. It is the basic conclusion supported by literally every rational and sane reading of the facts, both discrete to this incident and in general about Trump.
   1585. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5558998)
The Gold Star story perfectly summarized in two Onion Headlines:

'He Made The Ultimate Sacrifice,' Trump Tells Military Widow About Scooby-Doo Putting Up With Scrappy-Doo

John Kelly Explains To Furious Trump That Gold Star Widow Cannot Be Demoted To Silver Star Widow
   1586. tshipman Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5558999)

It seems what he was trying to say is that much of the time they didn't make calls. Which is essentially what Kelly told him. It just got lost in the game of telephone because Trump isn't good at remembering details and articulating them.

In other words, this is much ado about nothing, as it often is.


No, it's not ####### acceptable to tell lies about what other people did to console grieving military families.

As a base standard of human decency, you need to get the facts right before you say that you do a better job than your predecessor at honoring the service of the fallen.

Saying that it's a nothing because Donald Trump isn't good at it is not acceptable. Look at how people talk about this. It's a sacred trust. This is one of the many, many reasons why Donald Trump is not qualified to be president. Because he turns a sacred trust into a political talking point to distract from a botched mission that should never have occurred.
   1587. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:46 PM (#5559000)
   1588. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5559001)
Saying that it's a nothing because Donald Trump isn't good at it is not acceptable.


Hillary wasn't good at email security.
   1589. PepTech Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:51 PM (#5559002)
Anybody seen TGF recently?
I am wary of extrapolation, but based on those, ah, exposures I'm willing to place a wager that their napes are a certain color.
   1590. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:52 PM (#5559003)
In other words, this is much ado about nothing, as it often is.


People actually made timelines and lists about this. Timelines and lists. To make the timelines and lists, they had to search out minutiae. About a guy making a phone call that a guy who lost a son in combat and heard the call said was perfectly fine, and about a guy giving $25,000 to the family of a fallen soldier.

They made timelines and lists about this.

Got derangement?

And they also insisted that we celebrate a guy who falsely claimed Trump was a liar about calls to soldiers' families and, far worse, claimed that everyone who works with him knows he's "unfit" for the presidency and should be "ashamed" for working in government.

We have a pathological liar in the White House, unfit intellectually, emotionally, and psychologically to hold this office (*), and the whole world knows it (**), especially those around him every day.(***) The people who work with this president should be ashamed (****), because they know better than anyone just how unfit he is, and yet they choose to do nothing about it. This is their shame most of all.(*****)”


Insisted that we celebrate that unhinged claptrap. They insisted that. They posted it, high fived it, and acted as if it had issued from Moses on Mount Sinai. That.

(*) Fine, you're entitled to that opinion. It's a little ... odd ... to be sure, but you're entitled to it.

(**) No, they "know" no such thing. Hinges starting to weaken.

(***) No, they "know" no such thing. Hinge one, down.

(****) Who do you mean, exactly? Are you including the professional civil service in your absurdity? Hinge two, down.

(*****) So, then, as bad as Donald Trump is, other people who work in government are more shameful. OK, then. No hinges left to dehinge at this point. Core meltdown complete. Flying through outer space like the poor sap HAL unmoored from the spaceship.
   1591. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 20, 2017 at 12:53 PM (#5559004)
Hillary wasn't good at email security.


Hillary affirmatively set up a rogue server.
   1592. BrianBrianson Posted: October 20, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5559010)
Note: From personal experience some women's health issues really do drive costs in an absurd fashion. Years ago there were sextuplets (I think it was) and that event ended up costing millions of dollars in total.


And she was impregnated by another woman?
   1593. BDC Posted: October 20, 2017 at 01:04 PM (#5559014)
British dental standards

Obligatory
   1594. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 01:05 PM (#5559015)
OT baseball:

Dusty Baker & staff OUT in Washington...
   1595. BDC Posted: October 20, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5559016)
this man has turned every cheek on his body. If everyone here were like BDC, there'd be no need for heaven: we'd already be there

I feel like I should respond with some OTPish remark like "#### you, you ####ing ####," but being me I will just say thanks :)
   1596. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5559017)
British dental standards


Lemming! Lemming! Lemming of the BD, BD, BD, Lemming of the BDA!
   1597. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5559018)
1561:

Father, not mother.

1565:

Father, not mother.

Okay. Noted.

1575:

well, I don't know which mother he's referencing.

announcing the arrival of Sir Raymond the Disingenuous!


You're either a jackass or a moron. Or both. The post I read and responded to was 1559, which came before all of those.
   1598. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 20, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5559021)
The sending of the check erases the not sending of the check yet.
See, that's where you're wrong. Doing something eventually does not "erase" the period where one didn't do it. "Better late than never" is not the same thing as saying, "Late doesn't matter."

This was all charity, a gift, out of the goodness of Trump's heart -- or if not goodness then whatever the hell was in his heart because I don't know and neither do you. But the point is that he did a nice thing that he didn't have to do, and so for people to then #### all over him because they don't like the way this went down is utter lunacy.
No, the point is that he promised to do a nice thing and then didn't do it, until he was caught. If he hadn't been caught he never would have. That's why people are shitting all over him, and it's entirely appropriate; the fact that he didn't have to make the pledge in the first place doesn't make it okay to not follow through.
   1599. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 20, 2017 at 01:11 PM (#5559023)
OT baseball:

Dusty Baker & staff OUT in Washington...

They weren’t able to breach their NLDS ceiling under Davey Johnson or Matt Williams, who both managed exactly as long as Baker did: two years. The Nationals will hope that their fourth manager in this era, whoever he is, gets them over the top.

Yeah, it couldn't be that the players had anything to do with those four straight crapouts.
   1600. PepTech Posted: October 20, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5559026)
David, now that Ray has posted 1543 and is no longer lying about the nature of the criticism, it's a difference of opinion. There's enough other crap to wrangle over without beating this dead horse any more.
Page 16 of 20 pages ‹ First  < 14 15 16 17 18 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogHow an Astros player helped high-school kids have a cool World Series celebration
(1 - 12:20am, Nov 19)
Last: ajnrules

NewsblogOTP 13 November 2017: Politics, race now touching every sport
(1992 - 11:58pm, Nov 18)
Last: PreservedFish

Hall of MeritMock 2018 Modern Baseball Committee Hall of Fame Ballot
(76 - 11:33pm, Nov 18)
Last: robd4701

NewsblogOT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread
(1410 - 11:06pm, Nov 18)
Last: don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all

NewsblogOT: Winter Soccer Thread
(197 - 10:58pm, Nov 18)
Last: SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY

NewsblogThe Eric Hosmer Dilemma | FanGraphs Baseball
(37 - 9:34pm, Nov 18)
Last: 6 - 4 - 3

NewsblogOT - November* 2017 College Football thread
(181 - 7:36pm, Nov 18)
Last: Jay Z

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(240 - 5:49pm, Nov 18)
Last: The Honorable Ardo

NewsblogStanton, Altuve capture first MVP Awards | MVP
(51 - 4:35pm, Nov 18)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

NewsblogJim Palmer on Mark Belanger and Omar Vizquel: The Hardball Times
(98 - 4:33pm, Nov 18)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogFangraphs: Let's Make One Thing Absolutely Clear About Aaron Judge
(22 - 3:42pm, Nov 18)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogThe story of Alex Anthopoulos: From tragedy to prodigy to Braves GM
(1 - 8:30am, Nov 18)
Last: bfan

NewsblogBraves will lose prospects, and possibly a lot more, for violating international market rules
(48 - 1:30am, Nov 18)
Last: Armored Trooper VOTTO

NewsblogJudge, Bellinger named BBWAA Rookies of Year | MLB.com
(86 - 9:25pm, Nov 17)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogDerek Jeter addresses Giancarlo Stanton rumors | MLB.com
(24 - 7:38pm, Nov 17)
Last: Khrushin it bro

Page rendered in 1.3902 seconds
47 querie(s) executed