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Monday, October 16, 2017

OTP 16 October 2017: Sorry, Yankee fans: Trump’s claim that he can ensure victory simply isn’t true

As is sometimes the case with Trump’s tweet’s, his claims don’t hold up. We identified 14 games that Trump has attended since 1988, including two preseason games and the game above. Of those 14 games, the Yankees won eight and lost six — 57 percent of the time during seasons when the Yankees won 60 percent of their games overall.

In other words — Trump might be a jinx.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 16, 2017 at 07:49 AM | 1967 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, playoffs, politics, yankees

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   601. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5556100)
It's basically all we have been talking about here since Joe posted it yesterday.

I realize that, but so what? Popovich said it better.
No, he didn't say it better; he said the exact thing. That's what we've been talking about. You should probably not get all your news from Pony Express or whatever it was they used in 1963, where you're stuck.
   602. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:36 PM (#5556102)
The "you can't tell the cost unless you're a trained sommelier" cost is a bit higher than that, but yes - past ~$20, you're paying for advertising/prestige, not quality of wine.


I'd say that number is above $50, maybe above $75 for Cabernet. There's a lot of $40 wine out there that crushes $20 wine. The returns diminish rapidly above that, though.
   603. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:40 PM (#5556104)
Well, seeing as we're all about booze and wine and current events and baseball and whatnot...

Tom Seaver's vineyard survives.
   604. The Good Face Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:40 PM (#5556105)
I agree, but the price scale doesn't always line up with quality. Parmigiano-Reggiano is a world-class product that costs about $28 per lb. The knockoff Argentinian stuff is half that, and the green tube of Kraft parmesan is half that again or less. But in booze you can quickly find bottles that sell for thousands of dollars. The spread in whiskey prices is wild and crazy compared to the spread in cheese prices.


A big part is, as you describe, the availability of cheaper substitutes, which applies to most luxury goods. You might not be able to afford a Ferrari, but you might be able to afford a Corvette. If you can't afford a Corvette, you might be able to afford a Nissan 370Z, etc. And most whiskies tend to work the same way. If you don't want to spend $600 on a bottle of George T Stagg, you can probably procure a bottle of Elijah Craig Barrel Proof for ~$75 and get something virtually indistinguishable in quality. And if that's too rich for your blood, you can pretty easily find a bottle of Knob Creek Single Barrel for ~$45. A drop in quality, but still a good, high proof bourbon. If you're pinching pennies, Old Grand Dad 114 is still around for ~$25; another drop in quality, but a lot of bang for the buck.

But there are a few high end whiskies that just don't really have cheaper substitutes in the marketplace yet. Part of that is likely due to the recency of the bourbon/rye boom. It takes years to produce the stuff, and while production has ramped up over the past few years, that booze isn't ready for market yet.
   605. Nasty Nate Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:41 PM (#5556106)
Tom Seaver's vineyard survives.
But what about Bret Saberhagen's golf clubs?
   606. Satan Says Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:42 PM (#5556107)
I understand about the whiskey. It's an item I enjoy upon occassion. It simply wouldn't be worth it to me north of a Ulysses.

I like this stuff. Don't think it's even aged.
   607. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:44 PM (#5556108)
Wine? I thought studies showed that most people couldn't tell the difference between some random $10 California wine and a $300 French vintage. Not sure if they've done any of those blind taste tests with whiskey.


Probably depends on the commodity and one's experience with it, I'd think....

I'm a gin man, not a whiskey guy - but there's absolutely a level I wouldn't go below. Of course - 'twasn't always the case, but I wouldn't consider my palate especially refined. I probably couldn't tell the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $300 bottle.... Of course, the problem is variety with wine -- even wine snobs, I think, would say that you can find perfectly fine bottles at - well, maybe not $10, but say, $20 or so.

Nowadays, I think I could definitely -- and easily -- taste test out a cheap gin. And that wouldn't even necessarily be an "ah-ha! I found it!" - it would be more of an "Ugh, that's got a rather unpleasant rubbing alcohol character about it".
   608. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:47 PM (#5556109)
PF, regarding luxury goods, does it work for culinary equipment? Knives, etc.? Le Creuset?
   609. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5556110)
Some guy on an island in the Pacific just blocked the latest version of Trump's notaban.

A federal judge in Hawaii has blocked President Donald Trump's revised travel ban one day before it was set to take effect.


Judge Derrick Watson said the travel ban -- Trump's third version of the policy -- "plainly discriminates based on nationality."

The President's executive order "suffers from precisely the same maladies as its predecessor: it lacks sufficient findings that the entry of more than 150 million nationals from six specified countries would be 'detrimental to the interests of the United States,'" Watson wrote.


Does anyone even pretend anymore that this is merely a temporary ban put in place until extreme vetting procedures can be established? it's been what, 250 days or so since the original 90 day temporary ban?
   610. The Good Face Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5556111)
But what about really good CHEAP bourbon? By really good I mean good enough to sip neat. By really cheap I mean less than $25 a throw.


Several bonded bourbons qualify:

Evan Williams Bonded $12-15
Beam Bonded $20-ish
Very Old Barton bonded $20-ish but damn hard to find



Also:

Buffalo Trace $21-25
Four Roses Yellow label $20ish
George Dickel $16-18


Anyone have others to suggest?


Wild Turkey 101. I like it significantly more than any of those bourbons and I've seen it on sale for $36.99 per handle. Old Grand Dad 114 is around $25 a bottle and is pretty good. The bottled in bond version of Old Grand Dad is even cheaper than that and can be found in handles as well. If you're in or around Kentucky, Heaven Hill's 6 year bottled in bond (white label) is a steal at under $15 per bottle, but unfortunately it's not widely distributed outside of the state. Heaven Hill also produces Fighting ####, which is around $17. Used to be really good, but recently lost its 6 year age statement and has suffered a bit for it. Still, $17 bucks for a 103 proof bourbon ain't terrible.

IMO Wild Turkey 101 is the undisputed pound for pound king when it comes to value and quality.
   611. Shredder Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:50 PM (#5556113)
Wine? I thought studies showed that most people couldn't tell the difference between some random $10 California wine and a $300 French vintage. Not sure if they've done any of those blind taste tests with whiskey.
I'm no wine connoisseur, but since I've been married, I've been drinking it a lot more*. I'd say that I can tell the difference between a $3 bottle of wine and a $10 bottle of wine, and probably between a $10 bottle and $25 bottle. Above that and I can't really tell you that one is better than the other. This is an improvement, though, because I used to basically know the difference between "red" and "white" and that was it. Now I can tell a Cab from a Pinot Noir, or a sav blanc from a chardonnay. Baby steps.
Depends. A lot of luxury goods really are very, very good. I used to be married to someone who was appalled if I bought domestic "parmesan" instead of Reggiano. I would think, I'm just going to grate this stuff on top of Paul Newman sauce and Skinner's spaghetti, if I'm doing that with Reggiano I do have too much money. But for other purposes, indeed, real Parmesan is worth the difference. The same probably applies to whiskey and just about any consumable.
Isn't this just the parmesan version of buying a spirit to drink vs. buying one to mix? You're not making margaritas with $100 tequila, presumably.

But the concept of prices rising incongruently with quality very much exists in the beer space. I have a bottle of Bourbon County Rare Stout* from 2010 that I could probably sell for $350. If I poured it next to a glass of regular 2016 Bourbon County, you could probably tell them apart, and you might even be able to tell which one you like more, but you probably couldn't tell that one would cost you 20x what the other costs. It's crazy the way people wait in line or "chase trucks" for what are admittedly really good beers when there are arguably just as good or nearly as good beers on the shelf at your local craft beer store every day of the week.

*because my wife likes wine, not because I'm boozing more...at least any more than normal.
**Aged for two years in Pappy 23 barrels.
   612. BrianBrianson Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:51 PM (#5556115)
I'd say that number is above $50, maybe above $75 for Cabernet. There's a lot of $40 wine out there that crushes $20 wine.


The data suggests this is true, but it's also true if you just switch the labels. e.g., or this one The only meta-analysis I could find does find some overall correlation here - but, I could've sworn I have seen the "there's a correlation at low prices that goes away above $10-$20/bottle" study people seem to recall.
   613. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:54 PM (#5556117)
I should revisit WT 101. I haven't had it in years because I was underwhelmed, but it's probably time to try again.

Grandad is a bit harsh for sipping, IMO, though the high rye makes it good for coke or whiskey sours
   614. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:55 PM (#5556118)
Well, I am finished for the day.

See you tomorrow, gentlemen.
   615. Shredder Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:59 PM (#5556119)
Of course, the problem is variety with wine -- even wine snobs, I think, would say that you can find perfectly fine bottles at - well, maybe not $10, but say, $20 or so.
Alpanah Singh, who is a former TV personality and current restaurateur in Chicago was a master sommelier at age 23. One of the portions of the exam requires a taste test where they need to identify not only the grape, but the region from which it came, and the vintage. I can't find the quote, but I'm pretty sure she said something like she never personally would pay more than $25 for a bottle of wine. So the $20 range is probably pretty accurate. Of course, there is some thrill in drinking something really rare, I suppose, that goes beyond just the taste.
   616. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:59 PM (#5556120)
PF, regarding luxury goods, does it work for culinary equipment? Knives, etc.? Le Creuset?


I think it's similar. Copper pots are in fact better, but you need to be at a professional level to be able to take advantage of the difference. All-Clad is better than the cheap aluminum. But the cheap aluminum works too, and cast iron is cheap and great and lasts almost literally forever.

Knives ... most people goof by buying expensive knives at Williams-Sonoma and then never sharpening them. A $10 sharp knife from Chinatown is better than a dull one forged by an elite Japanese master. If you can get to the point where your knives stay sharp - either by sharpening yourself or paying someone else to do it routinely - then we can talk about spending money on some fancy ####.
   617. Satan Says Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:00 PM (#5556121)
"plainly discriminates based on nationality."


So?
   618. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:00 PM (#5556123)
The data suggests this is true, but it's also true if you just switch the labels. e.g., or this one The only meta-analysis I could find does find some overall correlation here - but, I could've sworn I have seen the "there's a correlation at low prices that goes away above $10-$20/bottle" study people seem to recall.


I imagine those numbers are true for the broader population, but among wine connisseurs I think the threshold rises to 50 (75 cab)

   619. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:01 PM (#5556124)
Isn't this just the parmesan version of buying a spirit to drink vs. buying one to mix? You're not making margaritas with $100 tequila, presumably.


Absolutely. There's a famous (and authentic!) Italian cheese named Grana Padano that is not quite as good as Parmgiano, but for many applications they're indistinguishable.
   620. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5556127)
Judge Derrick Watson said the travel ban -- Trump's third version of the policy -- "plainly discriminates based on nationality."


Uh, that's the whole idea. And of course current immigration law discriminates based on nationality.
   621. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:04 PM (#5556128)
Cheeses and kitchen equipment are different from whiskey because one can use technique to make the cheese or pot work better or worse. Cooking ability.

I can cook a better meal with crap ingredients than my wife can with exceptional ones, hands down.

But unless you really #### up serving it, whiskey is just whiskey.
   622. Satan Says Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:05 PM (#5556129)
just as good or nearly as good beers on the shelf at your local craft beer store every day of the week.

Which goes back to consumer appeal -- "I'm buying something better because it costs more." A lot of money can be made this way.

I've bought expensive beers, but I won't go past $10 for a six. Maybe a Belgian at a French restaurant, but that's part of the deal.

It's beer
   623. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:05 PM (#5556130)
I'm like maybe a AA-level cook/baker who was promoted too soon because someone got killed in a car accident, but I love my Le Creusets.
   624. BrianBrianson Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:07 PM (#5556132)
I imagine those numbers are true for the broader population, but among wine connisseurs I think the threshold rises to 50 (75 cab)


One probably overestimates how much of a conisseur they really are - blind tasting is probably worthwhile - but at least, to pass the sommelier tests, you can start telling the difference, aye.
   625. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:07 PM (#5556133)
Isn't this just the parmesan version of buying a spirit to drink vs. buying one to mix? You're not making margaritas with $100 tequila, presumably.


I'm not sure this is necessarily true -- it may well be the case with whiskeys (i.e, if you want an X and coke, there's no reason not to just go with Jack) -- but I think there are tequilas that pair well with lime juice and a sweet liquor.

I know with gins -- I'd definitely say you're doing it wrong if you get a gin and tonic where the gin is Hendricks... but something like Williams Chase is tailor-made to go with a (good) tonic.
   626. Omineca Greg Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:08 PM (#5556134)
At this moment I'm enjoying some Quebec brie (both the Euros and the Yanks are trying to kill our dairy industry, if you see that NAFTA talks have failed, it could be the dairy doing it). I'm putting it on top of a weird thing I'd never tried until yesterday...

Malt loaf.

This is the most delicious thing I've had since the last time I had a delicious thing.

The cheese is rich and creamy, the malt loaf is sweet and "squidgy" (apparently "squidgy" means "has the texture of a malt loaf").

This is fantastic.
   627. BrianBrianson Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:08 PM (#5556135)
I've bought expensive beers, but I won't go past $10 for a six.


The most extreme trolling I've seen on this site.
   628. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:09 PM (#5556137)
I can cook a better meal with crap ingredients than my wife can with exceptional ones, hands down.

Truth. Not to steal Andy's shtick, but I was in a pool league playing against a team with a real loudmouth - a good one - once, and our top guy made a point to walk over and grab the most warped piece of crap stick in the hall and then proceed beat that dude like a rented mule in about 20 minutes.
   629. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:10 PM (#5556139)
Le Creusets are very good. They're also beautiful, which is part of the price tag.
   630. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:11 PM (#5556140)
#626 looks like the banana bread I made last night.
   631. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:13 PM (#5556143)
Wine? I thought studies showed that most people couldn't tell the difference between some random $10 California wine and a $300 French vintage.

That's certainly true in my case; my wine palate's not very sophisticated, and the expensive stuff is definitely wasted on me. Whiskey, OTOH...

Not sure if they've done any of those blind taste tests with whiskey. and But what about really good CHEAP bourbon? By really good I mean good enough to sip neat. By really cheap I mean less than $25 a throw.

I'll handle both these queries at once. Yes, they certainly do blind taste tests of whiskeys. The mystery "house bourbon" in the carafe adorning our hutch (I'll end the mystery for this audience: it's Benchmark) comes in a plastic 1.75-liter bottle that costs around 16 bucks, is the bottom-rung product of one of our many fine nearby bourbon distilleries (Buffalo Trace), and apparently has won multiple blind taste tests. Now, I think many bourbons are better, but for the price point it's remarkably good--there are certainly many that are worse (Evan Williams, I'm looking at you). Quite smooth, and easily drinkable neat (as if there were another way to drink unmixed bourbon).

Buffalo Trace is, AFAIC, the best distillery there is dollar for dollar, across the board. Their standard bourbon is excellent, and is priced lower than Maker's Mark, which is a pretty boring, overly sweet low-mid priced spirit IMO, and as mentioned Benchmark packs a ton of value for what it is. And if you're lucky enough to stumble across a bottle, they produce George T Stagg, not to be confused with Stagg Junior (though I wish you luck with finding a bottle of Stagg--they're pretty damn secretive about their production and distribution of it). Not to be missed if the opportunity presents itself.

EDIT: Another thoroughly non-awful, extremely cheap bourbon? Trader Joe's brand, also produced by Buffalo Trace. Can't speak for elsewhere, but it retails for around 12 bucks in Louisville.

   632. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:15 PM (#5556144)
Le Creusets are very good. They're also beautiful, which is part of the price tag.

Gifts, mercifully. And TJ Maxx. Could also probably double as GoT bludgeoning weapons.
   633. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:17 PM (#5556146)
I've bought expensive beers, but I won't go past $10 for a six.

The most extreme trolling I've seen on this site.


Hey, many consumers of shitty beer are people too...
   634. Mike A Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:18 PM (#5556148)
to pass the sommelier tests, you can start telling the difference, aye.
It has been suggested that the wine connoisseur learns what to 'taste for' and therefore can start to tell expensive wines from cheaper ones. But does the expensive wine actually taste better, or are they conditioned to think it tastes better? It's really quite fascinating how much our perception affects our judgment:

"In 2001 Frédérick Brochet of the University of Bordeaux asked 54 wine experts to test two glasses of wine – one red, one white. Using the typical language of tasters, the panel described the red as 'jammy' and commented on its crushed red fruit. The critics failed to spot that both wines were from the same bottle. The only difference was that one had been coloured red with a flavourless dye."
   635. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:19 PM (#5556149)
Two thumbs up from me for Le Creusets. Have a few and love, aesthetically and functionally. Got my ex-wife the red heart-shaped one for Valentines Day and now have it back after the breakup. Great piece. She kept the big huge white one that you could cook a small cochon in. I actually bought myself a blue LC tea kettle, which is also primo.
   636. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:20 PM (#5556151)
Buffalo Trace is, AFAIC, the best distillery there is dollar for dollar, across the board


Four Roses is a candidate for that title as well. List price on their single barrel is 40ish but I occasionally see it on sale for high 20's, which is a STEAL.

   637. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:21 PM (#5556152)
I know with gins -- I'd definitely say you're doing it wrong if you get a gin and tonic where the gin is Hendricks.

It's like I don't even know you anymore, man.

Hendricks is the ONLY gin I drink, mixed or otherwise, which may be proof positive I'm not much of a gin enthusiast. Most of it tastes to me the way gasoline smells. Hendricks has that nice floral botanical flavor.
   638. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:22 PM (#5556153)
I've bought expensive beers, but I won't go past $10 for a six.

I am not much of a beer drinker these days. I really can't stand the fancier beers. I drink Stella or Yuengling and that is fine by me. I won't drink Bud/Coor or that kind of crap but I find the stouts, IPAs, too much for my taste. I occasionally like the weiss beers (not blue moon)
   639. Omineca Greg Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:23 PM (#5556155)
#626 looks like the banana bread I made last night.

It tastes like raisins/figs/dates, that sort of taste.

But the texture is incredible, I've never had anything else like it. Unique.

It's English, I don't know how popular it is there, but as it comes in a foil wrapped pack, apparently it can travel the world.

They have squidgy loafs, and squidgy cakes, and even squidgy ice cream. It's something else.
   640. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:23 PM (#5556156)
Four Roses is a candidate for that title as well. List price on their single barrel is 40ish but I occasionally see it on sale for high 20's, which is a STEAL.

Indeed-- Four Roses would be a close second in my book (though Wild Turkey is criminally underrated, and is a candidate for that distinction as well. Rare Breed is terrific.)--I didn't mention them because the Four Roses bourbons I drink (the single barrel usually) are a little above the price point you described, but still excellent value.

Plus, the single barrel comes in that cool-ass obelisk-shaped bottle with the etched roses. Makes for a most presentable (and drinkable) gift.
   641. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:24 PM (#5556157)
Yuengling is great beer at a great price
   642. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:24 PM (#5556158)
Hendricks is the ONLY gin I drink, mixed or otherwise, which may be proof positive I'm not much of a gin enthusiast.

GF hated it, sticks with Tanqueray.
   643. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:24 PM (#5556159)
I find the blind testing issue fascinating, because they suggest that the entire industry is something of a farce.

But I've also seen studies with absurd conclusions - I recall one that stated that most people couldn't tell hot water from hot chocolate. I think it's tough to trust the conclusions.

I know a Master Sommelier (there are 239 of them - it's a big ####### deal). He really does have an extraordinary palate. He also admits that blind tests can be very humbling.
   644. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:25 PM (#5556161)
I am not much of a beer drinker these days. I really can't stand the fancier beers.

I drink much less beer than I used to, largely because I can't abide the recent sour beer craze--seems like the tap lists at our local brewpubs are dominated by sours or some variation (i.e., the impulse to throw sour fruit flavors into otherwise perfectly respectable non-sour beers). If most gin tastes like gasoline smells, sour beers generally taste like wet dog smells. Gross.
   645. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:27 PM (#5556163)
Wild Turkey is criminally underrated, and is a candidate for that distinction as well. Rare Breed is terrific.


I really do need to try WT products again. In my younger days I was ambivalent to 101 and haven't tried in years, and palates do change. I bought a bottle of Russel's 10 year a while back. It was alright, no complaints except price. It was $20 whiskey with a $40 price tag. I will try Rare Breed and re-try 101 soon.
   646. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:30 PM (#5556167)
Hendricks is the ONLY gin I drink, mixed or otherwise, which may be proof positive I'm not much of a gin enthusiast. Most of it tastes to me the way gasoline smells. Hendricks has that nice floral botanical flavor.


Ha! -- and here I was about to slam YOU for your beer snobbery (IIRC, you can get a sixer of most Revolution brews for about $10-$12 --- and you almost can't wrong with any of them).

Anyway, that floral - I'd go with buttery -- flavor with Hendricks gets lost with tonic (or limes, for that matter). It's best by it's lonesome - maybe a cucumber slice. I'm actually not a big martini drinker, but I'd say that would be another avenue for it.

I've got nothing against gin and tonics generally -- it's a perfectly fine cocktail that even the worst bartender ought to be able to pour -- I'd just say go with something like Beefeater... at the upper levels, Plymouth is another gin that pairs well with tonic.
   647. Shredder Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:30 PM (#5556168)
Hey, many consumers of shitty beer are people too...
Hey man, drink what tastes good. I have similar rules for beer and golf courses. When it comes to golf*, if I'm deciding where to play, it's going to be somewhere good, and it's probably going to be somewhat expensive. But if you make a tee time at a cheap muni and need a fourth, I'm very likely to show up. When it comes to beer, if I'm stocking my fridge or at a bar, I'm almost certainly buying or ordering something on the high end (but with a purpose - not just looking at dollar signs). But if I'm out with friends or at someone's home, and they're buying, I will gladly drink whatever you put in front of me.

*Not as true anymore since I joined a club about five hours away. I hardly ever play in Chicago anymore. I think I've played six rounds in Chicago this year, and two were one the same day at the club. My M.O. these days is to go to my club for the weekend, play 4-6 rounds over a couple days, and put the clubs away until the next trip about a month later.
   648. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:30 PM (#5556169)
#420:
That we've declined from Disco Demolition Night is barely even debatable at this point.

Well, our tendency to murder each other has declined sharply since Disco Demolition Night. That much is certain.



Ironically, we're doing better than we did in the disco era at ah ah ah ah stayin' alive.
   649. The Good Face Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:31 PM (#5556170)
I should revisit WT 101. I haven't had it in years because I was underwhelmed, but it's probably time to try again.


WT 101 has a noticeable rye pop in its flavor profile as well, so if you're not a fan of rye notes in your bourbon, that might be why you were underwhelmed.

Grandad is a bit harsh


Period. But I like that about it. I find smoothness in whiskey to often mean "lacking in flavor/alcohol content".
   650. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:31 PM (#5556171)
Russell's Reserve isn't really my thing--I like my bourbons a little rough--and as you note is overpriced. The 101 was a standby on my liquor shelf before I moved to the land where every liquor store and every restaurant has a bourbon list at least two pages long.

Rare Breed has sort of an odd peppery flavor that I haven't found anyplace else, and though it's a little pricey (~$45) it's worth it IMO.
   651. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:33 PM (#5556173)
Period. But I like that about it. I find smoothness in whiskey to often mean "lacking in flavor/alcohol content".

See my last--I generally like a rough bourbon as well, but a really smooth one (e.g. Basil Hayden) is a pleasure to drink.

Anyway, harsh or not, you can't really complain about the price with Old Granddad at least....
   652. Satan Says Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:33 PM (#5556174)
I like good beer, IPAs and porters mostly. Your mass-market micros -- Stone, Sierra Nevada -- are good enough and meet my price point. Most smaller breweries price similarly. Uinta's Hop Nosh is outstanding, and it's routinely on sale at $8.

I'll spend a lot more at a pub to try different stuff (cask ales).
   653. BrianBrianson Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:34 PM (#5556175)
I drink much less beer than I used to, largely because I can't abide the recent sour beer craze.


There's a sour beer craze? I was under the impression North America was entirely in the bitter-bitter-bitter west coast IPA craze.

Trois Pistoles, Weyerbacher QUAD, Midas' Touch, Dark Island .. man, those're some beers
   654. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:34 PM (#5556176)
(IIRC, you can get a sixer of most Revolution brews for about $10-$12 --- and you almost can't wrong with any of them

Even that nasty hibiscus crap ("Rosa," I think it's called?)?
   655. Shredder Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5556177)
If most gin tastes like gasoline smells, sour beers generally taste like wet dog smells. Gross.
It's definitely an acquired taste, and even then the gamut runs from lightly sour things like Berlinners or Goses to seriously moth puckering acid bombs. I love sours, but I don't love them all the time, and they're pricey. The first time I had one six or seven years ago (La Folie), I didn't like it, but I didn't NOT like it. A couple weeks later I had to try one again, and they grew on me. You pay for quality, though. DeStihl makes a line of $10/4pk sours that are pretty good if you want a sour, but not necessarily great sours. Decent for the price, though.
Even that nasty hibiscus crap ("Rosa," I think it's called?)?
It's just seasonal. My wife loves it. I may have one or two per year. Fun fact: We were married there.
   656. madvillain Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5556178)
Your mass-market micros -- Stone, Sierra Nevada


uh, those are legendary breweries that produce some of the best beer in the world, "mass market" is a compliment to them.
   657. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5556179)
WT 101 has a noticeable rye pop in its flavor profile as well, so if you're not a fan of rye notes in your bourbon, that might be why you were underwhelmed.

Yes, there's a good bit of rye spice, and if one has an issue with general alcoholic harshness, there's that too (it is 101 proof, after all).

Anyone else like the offerings of the cleverly named KBD ("Kentucky Bourbon Distillers") in Bardstown? Among them are Noah's Mill, the smoothest 115-proof whiskey you'll ever drink, and Rowan's Creek, which is a $40 bottle that punches way the hell up. Highly recommended.
   658. BDC Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5556180)
there are a few high end whiskies that just don't really have cheaper substitutes

This is true of Texas wine. All they make is expensive wine, some of which is terrible, and some of which you don't want to pay enough to find out whether it's terrible or not. And there are reasons for that; it's a low-volume boutique business and they can't crank out drinkable bottles of wine for $12.95 yet, if they ever will. It must be very tough to gain a foothold in such industries.

One maker to look for, if you should be so inclined, is McPherson. They do offbeat things – Cinsault, Viognier, Albariño – as opposed to the Cabernet/Chardonnay offerings that a lot of vintners seem locked into. And they have figured out how to sell them for less than the $44.95 or whatever some of the other Texas wines sell for.

   659. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:40 PM (#5556183)
There's a sour beer craze? I was under the impression North America was entirely in the bitter-bitter-bitter west coast IPA craze.

That was certainly the case until a few years ago, but I think at a point people got a little tired of the "HOPPIEST BEER EVARRRR!!!!" (HopSlam! Hop Devil! Hop Behemoth!) dicksize contest that seemed to be going on with a lot of the prominent microbrews (Stone is one of the primary offenders; their beers are terrific, but man...it's possible to live a fulfilling life without a quintuple IPA. Honest.).

But yeah--seems like every microbrewery or decent pub I go to now has multiple sours on tap.
   660. BDC Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:40 PM (#5556184)
If you can get to the point where your knives stay sharp - either by sharpening yourself

I spent $150 on a pretty good home sharpener last year and it was instantly as if I had bought an entire kitchenful of new knives. And every few months since, too. Things "paying for themselves" is not a cliché.
   661. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:41 PM (#5556186)
Even that nasty hibiscus crap ("Rosa," I think it's called?)?


Hey - I added necessary qualifiers :-)

I'm not a big fan of their pilsner either (though, not a fan of the style generally)... I'm probably a bit dated and out of the loop on what they're brewing nowadays, but I think I feel like they hit on 9 out of 10 of their IPA variants and that's usually where my tastes lie.

   662. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5556190)
Fun fact: We were married there.

Nice. It's a good place for that. (A friend had his bachelor shindig at their restaurant on Milwaukee, which I've always been a fan of. The beer's good, but the food's better.)
   663. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:44 PM (#5556191)
WT 101 has a noticeable rye pop in its flavor profile as well, so if you're not a fan of rye notes in your bourbon, that might be why you were underwhelmed.


Four Roses SB has a lot of rye & I like that. It's been so long since I tried WT101 that I don't remember why I wasn't impressed, but the rye is prob not the reason.

I find smoothness in whiskey to often mean "lacking in flavor/alcohol content".


That is often the case, but not always. Weller, for example, is smooth as glass & not lacking anything in flavor, and it's 107 proof. Grandad is almost industrially harsh.
   664. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:44 PM (#5556192)
I spent $150 on a pretty good home sharpener last year and it was instantly as if I had bought an entire kitchenful of new knives. And every few months since, too. Things "paying for themselves" is not a cliché.


Ken Onion?
   665. Hysterical & Useless Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:44 PM (#5556193)
I used to be married to someone who was appalled if I bought domestic "parmesan"


When my kids were little they preferred romano to parmesan. But not just any romano; it had to be made with sheep's milk. You could not sneak a cow's-milk romano past them. I have no idea how they could tell the difference; it all tastes like sand to me.
   666. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:45 PM (#5556194)
I spent $150 on a pretty good home sharpener last year and it was instantly as if I had bought an entire kitchenful of new knives.


Do you mind telling us the brand?
   667. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:47 PM (#5556195)
My beer tastes have gone toward the milder types in recent years--I used to be into stouts and porters, then I moved on to being a hophead, but lately? I've become a big fan of pilsners (I credit a trip to Germany and the Czech Republic that taught me that pilsners needn't be flavorless. Quite the opposite.) and lagers. (I agree with zonk that Revolution's pilsner isn't particularly good.)

And because pilsners can be tough to find at my local watering holes, I tend to drink something else.
   668. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:47 PM (#5556196)
I was under the impression North America was entirely in the bitter-bitter-bitter west coast IPA craze


Twenty years ago I really liked IPA but the stuff that's on the street now is just ridiculous. Beer needs at least some balance.
   669. The Good Face Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5556198)
Indeed-- Four Roses would be a close second in my book (though Wild Turkey is criminally underrated, and is a candidate for that distinction as well. Rare Breed is terrific.)--I didn't mention them because the Four Roses bourbons I drink (the single barrel usually) are a little above the price point you described, but still excellent value.

Plus, the single barrel comes in that cool-ass obelisk-shaped bottle with the etched roses. Makes for a most presentable (and drinkable) gift.


Four Roses is an outstanding producer and their Single Barrel offering is wonderful, although at around $40 isn't really a bargain. However, their barrel proof store picks can be some of the best bourbon on the market, and usually run between $60 and $70. It'll be interesting to see how they hold up once the juice produced by Jim Rutledge, their recently retired master distiller, is all gone. Hopefully the new guy, Brent Elliot, is up to snuff.

See my last--I generally like a rough bourbon as well, but a really smooth one (e.g. Basil Hayden) is a pleasure to drink.

Anyway, harsh or not, you can't really complain about the price with Old Granddad at least....


Basil Hayden IS Old Grandad. Same mashbill anyway, just watered down to within an inch of its life.

Rare Breed has sort of an odd peppery flavor that I haven't found anyplace else, and though it's a little pricey (~$45) it's worth it IMO.


While I love all things Wild Turkey, I feel Rare Breed is the odd bird out in their lineup. It's not significantly better than 101 to me, but costs a good chunk more. I find Russell's Reserve to be a better value at ~$50, especially if you can get hold of a good barrel via a store pick.

One of the things I like about bourbon is that all of the big American producers have at least one product that I really enjoy. Even Jack Daniels produces the wonderful Single Barrel Barrel Proof, that is to regular Jack Daniels as a race car is to your family sedan.
   670. Satan Says Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:49 PM (#5556200)
uh, those are legendary breweries that produce some of the best beer in the world

Precisely.
   671. Morty Causa Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:49 PM (#5556201)
Richard Wilbur Obit

That he wasn't more appreciated and promoted by the literary establishment is inexcusable. He deserved the awards he got, and all the compliments, however backhanded. That he didn't get a Nobel is a major discredit to that phony august institution.


They gave him horse and harness, helmet and mail,
A jeweled shield, an ancient battle-sword,
Such gifts as are the hero's hard reward
And bid him do again what he has done.
These things he stowed beneath his parting sail,
And wept that he could share them with no son.

He died in his own country a kinless king,
A name heavy with deeds, and mourned as one
Will mourn for the frozen year when it is done.
They buried him next the sea on a thrust of land;
Twelve men rode round his barrow all in a ring,
Singing of him what they could understand.
"Beowulf"
   672. BDC Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5556203)
Do you mind telling us the brand?

Not at all; it's a Chef's Choice 15 Trizor XV EdgeSelect.
   673. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5556204)
Four Roses is an outstanding producer and their Single Barrel offering is wonderful, although at around $40 isn't really a bargain.

I'm spoiled. I get it for around 30 most times.
   674. BDC Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5556205)
Sad to hear about Richard Wilbur, Morty. But what a rich life. Thank you for posting the link to the obit.
   675. Hysterical & Useless Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5556206)
627. BrianBrianson Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:08 PM (#5556135)

I've bought expensive beers, but I won't go past $10 for a six.



The most extreme trolling I've seen on this site.


Where I live, the only time you see a six of even half-decent beer as low as $10 is at a "going out of business" sale
   676. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:52 PM (#5556207)
Basil Hayden IS Old Grandad. Same mashbill anyway, just watered down to within an inch of its life.

Wait, what? I may have to buy a bottle of both and have the missus administer a blind taste test. (Seriously, I did not know that, and while I've probably drunk Grandad twice in my life, I don't remember the two tasting particularly similar.)
   677. Morty Causa Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:53 PM (#5556208)
Wilbur reflects:

“I feel that the universe is full of glorious energy,” he said in an interview with The Paris Review, “that the energy tends to take pattern and shape, and that the ultimate character of things is comely and good. I am perfectly aware that I say this in the teeth of all sorts of contrary evidence, and that I must be basing it partly on temperament and partly on faith, but that’s my attitude.”
   678. Mike A Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5556209)
I finally found a beer my wife likes in the Goses, so I'm happy about that craze. Some we like are Cigar City's Guava/Mango, Boulevard's Hibiscus, and Founders' Green Zebra (watermelon). Great for a hot, muggy Georgia night.
   679. The Good Face Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5556210)
Anyone else like the offerings of the cleverly named KBD ("Kentucky Bourbon Distillers") in Bardstown? Among them are Noah's Mill, the smoothest 115-proof whiskey you'll ever drink, and Rowan's Creek, which is a $40 bottle that punches way the hell up. Highly recommended.


NDP, so inconsistency reigns supreme. 5+ years ago, Noah's Mill was amazing, went through a ton of it. Bought a bottle a few months ago and almost poured it down the drain. KBD is actually distilling their own product now (they're Willet), but mostly just releasing very young ryes, so all that other stuff is sourced and quality... varies.

That is often the case, but not always. Weller, for example, is smooth as glass & not lacking anything in flavor, and it's 107 proof.


Wheated bourbon is smooth like that, and I like it, but prefer some rye backbone as a general rule. The biggest issue with Weller is finding a bottle in the NYC area.
   680. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:56 PM (#5556212)
While I love all things Wild Turkey, I feel Rare Breed is the odd bird out in their lineup. It's not significantly better than 101 to me, but costs a good chunk more.

To me it's not so much that it's so much better than other bourbons (though I think it's very good) as it's UNIQUE. Sometimes it's just what I want, and that's one bourbon I pretty much guarantee I could identify in a blind test.

Even Jack Daniels produces the wonderful Single Barrel Barrel Proof, that is to regular Jack Daniels as a race car is to your family sedan.

Blasphemy. Jack ain't even bourbon. ;-) (Yes, it's pretty much a bourbon mash, but the wood chip additives ruin it for me. Not a fan.)
   681. Hysterical & Useless Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:57 PM (#5556213)
I can't abide the recent sour beer craze


Ugh, awful stuff. My older son...it's like I don't even know him anymore! Tried to poison me with some of that.

   682. The Good Face Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5556214)
Wait, what? I may have to buy a bottle of both and have the missus administer a blind taste test. (Seriously, I did not know that, and while I've probably drunk Grandad twice in my life, I don't remember the two tasting particularly similar.)


Yup. Both Beam products that share the same high rye mashbill. To be fair, it's possible the Basil Hayden is aged longer or benefits from better barrel selection, but a blind taste test might be worth your while. Could save a lot of money buying a handle of bonded Grandad and watering it down.
   683. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:00 PM (#5556215)
NDP, so inconsistency reigns supreme. 5+ years ago, Noah's Mill was amazing, went through a ton of it. Bought a bottle a few months ago and almost poured it down the drain. KBD is actually distilling their own product now (they're Willet), but mostly just releasing very young ryes, so all that other stuff is sourced and quality... varies.


That mirrors my experience with KDB.
   684. The Good Face Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:01 PM (#5556216)
Blasphemy. Jack ain't even bourbon.


JACK IS BOURBON GODDAMNIT.

Ahem.

Yes, it's pretty much a bourbon mash, but the wood chip additives ruin it for me. Not a fan.)


You didn't like the barrel proof Jack? I love that stuff. Tastes like a big stack of cornmeal pancakes dusted with cinnamon and smothered in maple syrup and bananas to me.
   685. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5556219)
Remember when Clinton said "The Benghazi attack started because of a video", then later basically said "well, I don't know, somebody told me that", and Ray and others said "yeah, we're cool with that explanation". Seems like it was yesterday.


Lol. She was telling her daughter "Diane Reynolds" the truth at the same time, out of the other side of her mouth.

We have the emails.
   686. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:06 PM (#5556222)
I have found that Jack Single Barrel has a very wide bottle variance, perhaps the widest of any SB. Some are not worth the money at all, while some are supernaturally good.
   687. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5556223)
The Spurs' coach Gregg Popovich** on Trump's latest lying smear of Obama:


A bit late for the Popovich circle jerk, Andy.

We already know that Popovich is a hero. He did something that few are courageous enough to do: attack Trump.

For his next bid for a medal in courage, Popovich will come out in support of gay rights.

Start your right hands!
   688. PepTech Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5556224)
We interrupt Whiskey and Winos to bring you your regularly scheduled dose of TDS: This week, we have proof that there is nothing racist about Trump's response to Puerto Rico. It turns out California is even bluer!
All the things Trump has tweeted about since fires started:

Fake News: 9 tweets
Obamacare is imploding, but is being dismantled: 8 tweets
Tax 'reform': 6 tweets
How great the stock market/economy is doing since Election Day: 5 tweets
Promoting interview with Sean Hannity: 4 tweets
....
Lou Dobbs complimented me: 1 tweet
....
'Really good book' about me: 1 tweet
....
Thanks for the 'beautiful welcome,' South Carolina!: 1 tweet
California wildfires: 0 tweets
I guess Trump doesn't own any wineries, either. No reason to expend resources for a state that is already Dem in 2020.
   689. Satan Says Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5556226)
Gose makes a good summer beer. I like it with my eggs.
   690. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:14 PM (#5556231)
Jesus Christ Andy. You been hiding under a rock for the last 24 hours?

Not sure what that's supposed to mean.


It means they've already switched to their left hands.

Please do try to keep up.
   691. The Good Face Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:14 PM (#5556232)
I have found that Jack Single Barrel has a very wide bottle variance, perhaps the widest of any SB. Some are not worth the money at all, while some are supernaturally good.


The single barrel barrel proofs, or just the regular single barrels? I've found Four Roses to be the most consistent of any SB, with Beam bringing the most variance; Knob Creek SB is wildly inconsistent.
   692. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:21 PM (#5556236)


The single barrel barrel proofs, or just the regular single barrels?


Regular. I have only sampled one of the Barrel proof SB so I can't speak on its bottle variance.

Until about 5 years ago I was a big fan of Evan Williams SB. It was on the thin side at 86 proof, always thought 100 would be right, but it was good whiskey and a tremendous value. The last few years have gone to shite, in much the same was as Noah's has. Noah's, though, is NDP so has little control over its quality. EW doesn't have that problem.. It seems that they are putting weaker and weaker barrels into the SB to try to cash in. I get wanting to cash in, I'm a for profit entity myself, but IMO they have sharply weakened the brand by doing that.
   693. Omineca Greg Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5556237)
THE DEATH OF A TOAD

A toad the power mower caught,
Chewed and clipped of a leg, with a hobbling hop has got
To the garden verge, and sanctuaried him
Under the cineraria leaves, in the shade
Of the ashen and heartshaped leaves, in a dim,
Low, and a final glade.

The rare original heartsblood goes,
Spends in the earthen hide, in the folds and wizenings, flows
In the gutters of the banked and staring eyes. He lies
As still as if he would return to stone,
And soundlessly attending, dies
Toward some deep monotone,

Toward misted and ebullient seas
And cooling shores, toward lost Amphibia's emperies.
Day dwindles, drowning and at length is gone
In the wide and antique eyes, which still appear
To watch, across the castrate lawn,
The haggard daylight steer.

Richard Wilbur


Always liked this one.
   694. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5556238)
Why so bitter about Popovich, Ray? He spoke his conscience. People appreciated his comments. Maybe if you speak your conscience some day, people will praise you, too.
   695. Traderdave Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:24 PM (#5556239)
Can't speak what you don't have.
   696. strong silence Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:24 PM (#5556240)
What are your favorite essential oils?

<asking for a friend>

he he. Nope, buying a gift for my wife. Any suggestions out there? Doterra has hundreds...
   697. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:25 PM (#5556241)
Jeeze, how much do you guys drink?
   698. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:27 PM (#5556242)
Ha! Winner.
   699. BDC Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:31 PM (#5556245)
the recent sour beer craze

This reminded me that I had some (Texan) Berliner Weiße in the fridge. It's OK – not too sour, sharp and refreshing.

I had never really taken in what Berliner Weiße was till I was in Berlin this summer. There it is popular with added syrups, green or red. It looked horrible and I didn't have any there. Interestingly enough, I saw it marketed heavily to young hipsters, but drunk mainly by elderly people. Kind of a hopeful gesture toward a retro, your-dad's-beer craze, I guess.
   700. The Good Face Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:32 PM (#5556246)
Until about 5 years ago I was a big fan of Evan Williams SB. It was on the thin side at 86 proof, always thought 100 would be right, but it was good whiskey and a tremendous value. The last few years have gone to shite, in much the same was as Noah's has. Noah's, though, is NDP so has little control over its quality. EW doesn't have that problem.. It seems that they are putting weaker and weaker barrels into the SB to try to cash in. I get wanting to cash in, I'm a for profit entity myself, but IMO they have sharply weakened the brand by doing that.


I suspect Heaven Hill has been cannibalizing some of their lower end brands to meet demand for some of their higher end stuff. They've already dropped age statements on Elijah Craig and Fighting Cock; despite their vast stockpiles of juice, I don't think they were quite ready for the bourbon boom when it hit 5 years or so ago.
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