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Monday, October 16, 2017

OTP 16 October 2017: Sorry, Yankee fans: Trump’s claim that he can ensure victory simply isn’t true

As is sometimes the case with Trump’s tweet’s, his claims don’t hold up. We identified 14 games that Trump has attended since 1988, including two preseason games and the game above. Of those 14 games, the Yankees won eight and lost six — 57 percent of the time during seasons when the Yankees won 60 percent of their games overall.

In other words — Trump might be a jinx.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 16, 2017 at 07:49 AM | 1967 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, playoffs, politics, yankees

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   801. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 18, 2017 at 09:53 AM (#5556823)
That longer incarceration increases recidivism is a little surprising - a criminal record makes it really hard to get work, so it certainly motivates a lot of petty crime, but I'm surprised the length matters much.
Didn't you ever watch Shawshank Redemption?
   802. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:08 AM (#5556832)

Depending on how you say it, it could certainly be either really insensitive, or maybe really venerating.

I mean - I can't fault people for not giving Trump the benefit of the doubt. Fool me sixteen times, shame on you. Fool me seventeen or more times, shame on me.


To the pregnant widow in your condolences call?

No, sorry... That may well be something a particularly stiff upper lipped widow says back, but I can think of no circumstance where it would be anything other than insensitive... Perhaps it's something a family member or therapist might voice months later if the widow is having trouble moving on, but there is no conceivable way it is something a President should say.

The guy is a human cockroach.
   803. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5556833)
Obviously liberals are to blame for Trump's statement to the widow.

If we hadn't criticized him for not calling her, he never would have made such a fool out of himself.

I, for one, feel bad about it.

/sbb


It's so interesting to me each next bout of derangement. There's nothing wrong with such a statement to a widow of a soldier. It's a statement of respect, essentially saying "He knew the risks, but he was such a courageous and patriotic man that he enlisted anyway, although it still hurts when tragedy strikes." It means that her husband's death wasn't senseless, that her husband went in eyes open taking on the risks out of duty to self, family, and country.

Why this is spun as something negative is an exercise very well left to the reader. It's just interesting that Trump was in a lose-lose: Don't call the families and you're an asshat. Call the families and say something completely reasonable and respectful, and we'll pretend you said something horrible and even though we're doing that, you're still the asshat.

The emperor is quite wearing no clothes here, but those in the throes of derangement are too unhinged to notice.

I do actually feel bad for people who are going through life this way, enraged with blood boiling at every next turn over things that they imagine to be happening.

Go out, live your life, take in a ballgame, spend time with your families, go on some road trips... Enjoy life and unplug from this since it's making you completely crazy and you're ruining your life, is what I'd say and suggest. You are incapable of observing and analyzing events rationally. Which is basically how crazy people go through life.

(See, Misirlou? This is what a full throated defense looks like. In which I actually analyze the issue and make comments defending Trump. Nothing like this was present from me for the issue yesterday about Trump saying past presidents didn't call families.)
   804. PreservedFish Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5556834)
"Your husband is a patriot and a hero. He knew what he was signing up for and he knowingly put his own life on the line in order to fight for the freedom that the rest of us enjoy. We will never forget his bravery."
   805. PreservedFish Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:16 AM (#5556835)
I do actually feel bad for people who are going through life this way, enraged with blood boiling at every next turn over things that they imagine to be happening.

Go out, live your life, take in a ballgame, spend time with your families, go on some road trips... Enjoy life and unplug from this since it's making you completely crazy and you're ruining your life, is what I'd say and suggest.


Holy crap Ray, please chill out and dial down the condescension. Posting about stupid things Trump does doesn't mean that anyone's blood is boiling. Your flamboyantly advertised ennui doesn't mean that you're somehow living life more fully than the rest of us.
   806. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:19 AM (#5556837)
No, sorry... That may well be something a particularly stiff upper lipped widow says back, but I can think of no circumstance where it would be anything other than insensitive... Perhaps it's something a family member or therapist might voice months later if the widow is having trouble moving on, but there is no conceivable way it is something a President should say.

The guy is a human cockroach.


Lol.

Imagining that Trump would actually say something disrespectful to a widow of a soldier.

It truly is to laugh. Out loud, even.
   807. BrianBrianson Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:21 AM (#5556840)
Indeed, #804 is a sensible way you could say that phrase in a way that appropriate. It could also be in a "He knew what he was signing up for, so tough ####, don't blame me" way, which wouldn't. I get why people would assume it'd be the latter, per boy who cried wolf. But it doesn't work much as an attack because it's ambiguous.
   808. BrianBrianson Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5556841)
Imagining that Trump would actually say something disrespectful to a widow of a soldier.


Indeed, presumably he wants to save his A+ insults for when he calls the parents of fallen soldiers.
   809. Shredder Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:24 AM (#5556844)
Indeed, presumably he wants to save his A+ insults for when he calls the parents of fallen soldiers.
Or Hurricane victims. "Have a great time!". Look, there's abundant evidence that the guy simply doesn't even know how to fake empathy. Largely because he's a sociopath.
   810. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5556845)
My policy of largely ignoring the things Trump says and tweets continues to serve me very well*. His actions (and in actions such as Puerto Rico, SCHIP) provide plenty of proof he is a terrible president.

* He long since proved he is unqualified for the Presidency by knowledge and temperament, I don't need more proof at this juncture.
   811. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5556847)
Imagining that Trump would actually say something disrespectful to a widow of a soldier.


Spin and defend all you want, Ray, but the fact remains. Trump is literally the worst person to ever be elected dog catcher in America, much less POTUS. He has absolutely no redeeming qualities.
   812. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5556850)
Holy crap Ray, please chill out and dial down the condescension. Posting about stupid things Trump does doesn't mean that anyone's blood is boiling. Your flamboyantly advertised ennui doesn't mean that you're somehow living life more fully than the rest of us.


If people don't unplug for the sake of themselves, do it for the sake of your children. You're poisoning their minds with foolishness, setting them up to go through life with a warped baseline and an inability to perceive events rationally, which sets them up for failure. They probably won't fail, but if they don't it's because they'll manage to overcome the ill effects of whatever Kool-Aid you're pumping into their brains.

Stop doing this, would be my advice. Here, this is just some message board. At home, you're proselytizing insanity.
   813. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5556851)
It's so interesting to me each next bout of derangement. There's nothing wrong with such a statement to a widow of a soldier. It's a sign of respect, essentially saying "He knew the risks, but he was such a courageous and patriotic man that he enlisted anyway, although it still hurts when tragedy strikes." It means that her husband's death wasn't senseless, that her husband went in eyes open taking on the risks out of duty to self, family, and country.

Why this is spun as something negative is an exercise very well left to the reader.


As a reader, I will explain. He didn't say "He knew the risks, but he was such a courageous and patriotic man that he enlisted anyway, although it still hurts when tragedy strikes." , He said something different. That is YOUR extremely positive spin on what he said. Why you and SBB bend over backwards to give this President every possible and even some impossible benefits of the doubt while continually claiming to not support his is an exercise for other readers. And you guys do this with the full knowledge of everyone here that you, like SBB and others, wouldn't give Obama or a Clinton even 1% as much positive spin on anything they said. How many times have we heard "57 states" mocked over the years just to pick one example?

I'm not going to jump in with both feet and take the word of a political enemy of Trump as to what was said, however she was in the car and claims she heard the words, and would be taking a risk in the form of a contradictory statement from the widow had she grossly mischaracterized what he said. Rep Wilson also claims that after the call the widow turned to her crying and said "He didn't even know his name." Again, hearsay, but hearsay with a good chance of being accurate.

However, I'm most certainly not going to put an extremely positive spin on this. And i don't know why anyone would unless they have a vested interest in supporting this President.
   814. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5556853)
Lol.

Imagining that Trump would actually say something disrespectful to a widow of a soldier.

It truly is to laugh. Out loud, even.
The dude has said "something disrespectful" to literally every type of person he's talked to or about - women, minorities, foreigners, foreign leaders, parents of those KIA, his employees, his appointees....Even without specific evidence, at this point you should assume he badmouths someone in every single conversation.
   815. Morty Causa Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5556855)
A massive review of the evidence shows letting people out of prison doesn’t increase crime

Should this be taken into consideration wrt specific, high-profile crimes, or allegations of crimes that result in high level of notoriety? There are always some in the news.

Seems as if the point of the study is that it's all pointless, all counterproductive. Why charge, why prosecute, why incarcerate? Hey, it's all one big hippie commune, man, where everyone has chilled out, gets along. Just smoke that weed and eat those veggies, and only veggies, and everything will be copacetic.


   816. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:33 AM (#5556856)
"Your husband is a patriot and a hero. He knew what he was signing up for and he knowingly put his own life on the line in order to fight for the freedom that the rest of us enjoy. We will never forget his bravery."


All of a sudden, Trump is a skilled wordsmith who, if he truly had wanted to articulate his message well, could have done that.

That's not the history of the man. It's not in his skill set. And at that, there's nothing wrong with what he did say.

And I would bet that he did convey these other thoughts, but the unhinged Congresswoman didn't report them, perhaps didn't even notice them.
   817. BrianBrianson Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5556857)
Rep Wilson also claims that after the call the widow turned to her crying and said "He didn't even know his name."


See - now that's something to criticise him for. But criticising him for saying something that's not an issue is ... pointless.
   818. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5556858)
Why charge, why prosecute, why incarcerate?


Same reason we always have, Morty. To make jackoffs feel morally superior to those evil ne'redowells from the wrong side of the tracks.
   819. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5556859)
All of a sudden, Trump is a skilled wordsmith who, if he truly had wanted to articulate his message well, could have done that.


No. He's still a simpering simpleton moron with the moral standing of a child predator.
   820. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5556861)
As a reader, I will explain. He didn't say "He knew the risks, but he was such a courageous and patriotic man that he enlisted anyway, although it still hurts when tragedy strikes." , He said something different.


You actually don't know that. We're relying on the Congresswoman's version of what he said. And she's not exactly showing that she's operating with a full deck.
   821. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5556863)
It should be self-evident that tougher sentences don't deter crime because the sentences are all effectively infinitely tough.

Doesn't have to do with the fact that most crimes are committed by young people and they age out or die out. Once you hit 35 or so, men don't commit as much crime. I think that keeping people locked up past the age of 40 is ridiculous (with rare exceptions).
   822. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5556864)
If people don't unplug for the sake of themselves, do it for the sake of your children. You're poisoning their minds with foolishness, setting them up to go through life with a warped baseline and an inability to perceive events rationally, which sets them up for failure. They probably won't fail, but if they don't it's because they'll manage to overcome the ill effects of whatever Kool-Aid you're pumping into their brains


Ray literally going "for the sake of the children." And by "for the sake of the children" he means "in order to turn the children into mindless, morally insipid shitheels like the current president and his supporters."
   823. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5556865)
And I would bet that he did convey these other thoughts, but the unhinged Congresswoman didn't report them, perhaps didn't even notice them.


Again, the unhinged congresswoman was in the car with the widow when she took the call, and risks a contradictory statement from the widow if she grossly mischaracterizes what the President said. I'm sure she put her own spin on it, but I don't doubt the awkwardness, at best, of the conversation. And I don't doubt the traumatized widow crying that he didn't even know his name.
   824. Shredder Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5556866)
What Ray fails to understand is that when one native speaker of English is speaking to another native speaker of English, a translator usually isn't required.
   825. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:38 AM (#5556867)
Stop doing this, would be my advice.


Yes, I would agree. At this point, it's an addiction. I say that in all seriousness, understanding that the response may be for me to #### off or somesuch.

Unplug.

Or at least plug in less.
   826. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5556868)
A massive review of the evidence shows letting people out of prison doesn’t increase crime
I hate clickbait headlines; I really hate them when they're covering science. "I estimate, that at typical policy margins in the United States today, decarceration has zero net impact on crime" is not remotely the same thing as "letting people out of prison doesn’t increase crime."


I haven't read the guy's underlying study, but I skimmed some of his blog posts about it while on the train. There are some problems. He compares the "societal benefit" of letting someone out of prison to the "societal cost," and concludes that the worst case is that it's breakeven. But his "societal benefit" consists of two main components: lower taxpayer costs to incarcerate someone and "the money value of gained liberty," while his "societal costs" are increased crime. The problem with that is that "the money value of gained liberty" accrues to the criminals, while the costs of increased crime are incurred by crime victims. That's the problem with the liberal approach of looking at "society" rather than individuals; by the same approach, there are few "societal costs" to embezzlement because the embezzler gains a benefit equal to the loss to the embezzlee.


EDIT: I would note further that the main argument by this guy is that the negative aftereffects of prison seem to cancel out the positive benefits of incapacitation while people are in prison. But there's another possible policy conclusion one could draw from that, which is that fewer people should be let out of prison.
   827. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5556870)
Why you and SBB bend over backwards to give this President every possible and even some impossible benefits of the doubt while continually claiming to not support his is an exercise for other readers.


Perhaps because folks here are unhinged and spin everything to its utmost negative about him.

If you say that OJ killed 10 people I'll stand up and say no, he killed 2 people. And you'll then look around bewildered and ask why I'm "defending" him. That's what's going on here.

I've said before: When I visited family in Texas last Thanksgiving, they were singing Trump's praises to such an extent and vilifying Hillary to such an extent that they saw me as a Hillary supporter for pushing back.

It all depends on where I'm standing. Folks here are standing on the opposite side of the spectrum from the Texas crew.

And you guys do this with the full knowledge of everyone here that you, like SBB and others, wouldn't give Obama or a Clinton even 1% as much positive spin on anything they said. How many times have we heard "57 states" mocked over the years just to pick one example?


Never, from me. I've pointed out that it's a useful example of media bias: Had Bush said it they wouldn't have given him a pass. They'd have harped on it over and over again.

However, I'm most certainly not going to put an extremely positive spin on this. And i don't know why anyone would unless they have a vested interest in supporting this President.


Hilarious. It's not a positive spin. It's an accurate assessment. But it's telling that when the accurate assessment is a positive one, you get your back up and deny it.
   828. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:43 AM (#5556872)
Ray literally going "for the sake of the children." And by "for the sake of the children" he means "in order to turn the children into mindless, morally insipid shitheels like the current president and his supporters."


Ray's whole bit on this issue would be WAY more compelling if he wasn't the one who spent countless posts parsing many many Obama and Clinton utterances, and being all "tsk tsk" over them. To turn around now and piously pontificate on the evils of over parsing such statements is laugh out loud pathetic.
   829. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:44 AM (#5556873)
I'm not going to jump in with both feet and take the word of a political enemy of Trump as to what was said, however she was in the car and claims she heard the words, and would be taking a risk in the form of a contradictory statement from the widow had she grossly mischaracterized what he said. Rep Wilson also claims that after the call the widow turned to her crying and said "He didn't even know his name." Again, hearsay, but hearsay with a good chance of being accurate.


Now, see, I can believe that Trump forgot the soldier's name. You can call that what you want but it's not in the same universe as being intentionally disrespectful, which is what the BS of the day is about the "He knew what he signed up for" comment.
   830. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:46 AM (#5556874)
The problem with that is that "the money value of gained liberty" accrues to the criminals, while the costs of increased crime are incurred by crime victims.

Plus also we have the gain in the cost of not locking someone up. The fixed costs are still there, but release enough prisoners, and you save not only on the food, medical, but the salaries of guards. There is also potential savings in the family of the released person. Fewer costly visits and charges for phones. If they can contribute to the family, probably less people on welfare. Then the long term advantages if they have a family (better support for kids).
   831. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:47 AM (#5556876)
t's so interesting to me each next bout of derangement. There's nothing wrong with such a statement to a widow of a soldier. It's a statement of respect, essentially saying "He knew the risks, but he was such a courageous and patriotic man that he enlisted anyway, although it still hurts when tragedy strikes." It means that her husband's death wasn't senseless, that her husband went in eyes open taking on the risks out of duty to self, family, and country.

Why this is spun as something negative is an exercise very well left to the reader.
Why you would add a bunch of words he didn't say at all (to our knowledge) and claim that they're "essentially" what he said is left as an exercise -- no, I'll give the answer: you're a rabid Trump supporter.


EDIT:
It's just interesting that Trump was in a lose-lose: Don't call the families and you're an asshat. Call the families and say something completely reasonable and respectful, and we'll pretend you said something horrible and even though we're doing that, you're still the asshat.
As always, while you invent words he didn't say and pretend that he did say them, you ignore what he actually did say. Which was, "Hey, look at me! I'm better than Obama and all the presidents before me because I call the families, unlike those guys!" When one says something like that, one invites detailed scrutiny. If he hadn't said that, nobody would have been paying attention to this issue. So the first "lose" in your alleged "lose-lose" is entirely on him.

Further, as always, you pretend that doing something bad is the only thing to do. The second "lose" is also entirely on him; he didn't need to say what he said. He could have acted like a normal human being and said what any other president would have said.

I would point out that when Trump does something unconventional -- like his approach to campaigning -- and then he succeeds, you and Dilbert insist on giving him credit for it, even if the success was an accident. But when he does something unconventional and it backfires, you insist on pretending everyone who rejects him is the problem. "Trump deliberately made himself unpopular so he could win the Electoral College by pitching to the score! Brilliant! He was so much smarter than all those experts who thought his approach wouldn't work!" "Trump says things now that people don't like -- they're deranged for not liking it!"
   832. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:50 AM (#5556878)
Why you would add a bunch of words he didn't say at all (to our knowledge)


To our knowledge, indeed.

Let's bring that phrase out of the shadows; no need to stash it in a parenthetical.

The message Trump was trying to convey -- or perhaps even did explicitly convey -- is clear to any sane person.
   833. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:54 AM (#5556881)
Now, see, I can believe that Trump forgot the soldier's name.


I can believe he did an overall crappy job in the call. But even assuming that, why I'm supposed to be paying the utmost attention to such trivia -- day after day, utterance after utterance -- completely escapes.

Trump is crappy at interacting with and comforting individual citizens. He gets an F in that part of the job. Let's stipulate that. Fine.

Unplug. Live your lives.
   834. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5556885)
Perhaps because folks here are unhinged and spin everything to its utmost negative about him.


Once again, neither you nor the ######## reject formerly known as SBB have any standing to lecture others on this sort of thing. You're Clinton derangement was 1000x worse than anything people here say negative about Trump. The fact that you have family in Texas even more unhinged doesn't reckon into it.
   835. PreservedFish Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5556886)

If people don't unplug for the sake of themselves, do it for the sake of your children. You're poisoning their minds with foolishness, setting them up to go through life with a warped baseline and an inability to perceive events rationally, which sets them up for failure. They probably won't fail, but if they don't it's because they'll manage to overcome the ill effects of whatever Kool-Aid you're pumping into their brains.

Stop doing this, would be my advice. Here, this is just some message board. At home, you're proselytizing insanity.


Holy crap, you just made a lot of assumptions about my private life.
   836. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:57 AM (#5556887)
The message Trump was trying to convey -- or perhaps even did explicitly convey -- is clear to any sane person.

No they don't. You are correct, if you can frame them correctly, they are benign. But he didn't seem to do that and the mother of the soldier is supporting what the congresswoman said, and saying that Trump was disrespectful.
   837. Hot Wheeling American Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:57 AM (#5556889)
If people don't unplug for the sake of themselves, do it for the sake of your children. You're poisoning their minds with foolishness, setting them up to go through life with a warped baseline and an inability to perceive events rationally, which sets them up for failure. They probably won't fail, but if they don't it's because they'll manage to overcome the ill effects of whatever Kool-Aid you're pumping into their brains.


Projection, baby. 25+ years of the right wing echo chamber brought us to this point. As your e-pal The Good Face is so fond of running into the ground...'we learned it from you!'
   838. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:57 AM (#5556890)
The message Trump was trying to convey -- or perhaps even did explicitly convey -- is clear to any sane person.
Agreed. Unfortunately for you, you're on the wrong side of that equation.
   839. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5556892)
I'm fine with my stipulation above, but there's no reason in this ultra-tribal age, to believe an opposition Congresswoman's account of a private call that she did not listen to.

That's a simple empirical and experiential reality of our times.
   840. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5556893)
As always, while you invent words he didn't say and pretend that he did say them, you ignore what he actually did say. Which was, "Hey, look at me! I'm better than Obama and all the presidents before me because I call the families, unlike those guys!" When one says something like that, one invites detailed scrutiny.


Where "detailed scrutiny" is "spinning the positive to the negative."

If he hadn't said that, nobody would have been paying attention to this issue.


Oh, please. You can't believe that.
   841. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:02 AM (#5556896)
The message Trump was trying to convey -- or perhaps even did explicitly convey -- is clear to any sane person.


Yes. It is clear to any sane person. Pity that repeated cockholstering has deteriorated your sanity and ability to recognize patterns.

That everything is all about him.

Everything else is FAKENEWS to be attacked because "they started it".

Gimme a break. Trump was annoyed because someone asked about the silence over the American deaths that got nary a mention while he was waging his awesome, respect the troops jiahd against the NFL. He was further annoyed when his standard attempts to deflect and inflate himself didn't play out well.

If you think he's then able to set that aside and make a simple, respectful phone call that requires putting your own adolescent needs on the backburner for a minutes then I say that you're either a liar or an idiot. You choose.

This has been his pattern over and over and over and over and over again on EVERYTHING.

   842. tshipman Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:03 AM (#5556897)
The message Trump was trying to convey -- or perhaps even did explicitly convey -- is clear to any sane person.


Yes. Trump is forced into an awkward phone call that he would rather not have to take. He is deeply uncomfortable with someone dying and feels a sense of guilt. Rather than comfort the man's pregnant widow, he says something that makes himself feel better--that the pregnant woman's husband "knew the risks."

That is what is so deeply offensive. He didn't bother to prepare, and when he found himself in an uncomfortable situation, he defaulted to making himself feel better.
   843. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:03 AM (#5556899)
Imagining that Trump would actually say something disrespectful to a widow of a soldier.

It truly is to laugh. Out loud, even.
We're laughing at you, Ray, not with you. I agree that a good default assumption is that someone would not do such a thing. If one is approaching such a statement behind a veil of ignorance, one should therefore assume that the statement was not meant to be disrespectful. But we're not behind that veil here; we know who said it, and we know his track record. We don't need to use the default assumption for how a randomly-chosen person would behave. There's a high probability with anything Trump says that it is meant to be disrespectful. There's compelling evidence that he doesn't respect anyone or anything besides himself.
   844. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5556900)
If he hadn't said that, nobody would have been paying attention to this issue.




Oh, please. You can't believe that.


Surely you must admit that Trump's incredibly foolish statements about previous President's handling of bereavement calls contributed greatly to the scrutiny he faces in his own bereavement calls, right?
   845. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5556902)
All of a sudden, Trump is a skilled wordsmith who, if he truly had wanted to articulate his message well, could have done that.

That's not the history of the man. It's not in his skill set.
Nice try, but no sale. You and Dilbert have spent the last two years telling us how he's a "master persuader" who always knows exactly what to say and chooses his words very carefully to convey his message.
   846. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:06 AM (#5556905)
But we're not behind that veil here; we know who said it, and we know his track record.


"I like people that weren't captured"
   847. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5556906)
If he hadn't said that, nobody would have been paying attention to this issue.

Oh, please. You can't believe that.
Uh, it's empirically correct. He's been president for nine months this week. Not once in that time was there any scrutiny about what Trump said to the families of dead soldiers until after he himself mouthed off about it and made it an issue.
   848. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5556907)
Surely you must admit that Trump's incredibly foolish statements about previous President's handling of bereavement calls contributed greatly to the scrutiny he faces in his own bereavement calls, right?


Oh, it contributed to the derangement he now faces, yes.

There's no world in which Wilson went into that call as a neutral participant.
   849. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:08 AM (#5556910)
All of a sudden, Trump is a skilled wordsmith who, if he truly had wanted to articulate his message well, could have done that.

That's not the history of the man. It's not in his skill set.

Nice try, but no sale. You and Dilbert have spent the last two years telling us how he's a "master persuader" who always knows exactly what to say and chooses his words very carefully to convey his message.


So you DO think Trump is a skilled wordsmith? Is that what you're going with?

If so I'd be obliged if you'd state it on the record.
   850. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5556911)
but there's no reason in this ultra-tribal age, to believe an opposition Congresswoman's account of a private call that she did not listen to.


I already gave the reason, the widow who can easily refute her in public, or through a spokesperson, which would cause far greater harm to the congresswoman than she hopes to do to Trump. I'm not going to believe her exact characterization, but I can believe that she got the jist and the tone essentially correct. There is a lot of potential downside for her is she's making things up. And if it turns out she is, then she's worse than Trump.
   851. Chicago Joe Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5556912)
Holy crap, you just made a lot of assumptions about my private life.


I do find it interesting that two posters without children are the most full-throated defenders of Trump.
   852. PepTech Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:10 AM (#5556913)
Go out, live your life, take in a ballgame, spend time with your families, go on some road trips... Enjoy life and unplug from this since it's making you completely crazy and you're ruining your life, is what I'd say and suggest. You are incapable of observing and analyzing events rationally.
Spectacular advice, if a little odd from someone who's gotta be in the top ten in postcount around here. Speaking from experience, perhaps.

---------------

Someone mentioned it yesterday, but it's worth not getting lost in the shuffle - all this has distracted from the circumstances under which the soldiers died. Has there been a credible recap of the events, why they were there, whether it was out of the ordinary? I don't know, it's an actual question. Here's the most recent story I could find, from TIME:
The Defense Department is opening an investigation into the deaths of four U.S. soldiers in Niger earlier this month, as President Trump faces criticism for how he has approached the bereaved families.
The probe will examine the military's preparation for the operation as questions swirl about the quality of the U.S. Africa Command's intelligence reports, including why the October 4 ambush wasn't anticipated, CNN reports.
The soldiers, part of a 12-strong Special Forces team led by Green Berets, were on their back from a meeting with local community leaders when they were ambushed by a group of 50 ISIS-affiliated fighters
It's dated today, and it seems odd the DoD is just opening that investigation now. It seems odd you'd send 12 Special Forces to meet "community leaders". If you're sending 12 elite troops, why wouldn't they be better equipped? If they're not better equipped, what do you need 12 elite troops for? Is it normal to have three Staff Sgts in a unit of 12 guys? What was the rank of the unit commander? Were they escorting civilians of some kind?

If this info is already out there, I haven't heard. It's pretty clear the notification fiasco has at the very least dimmed the spotlight somewhat on these questions.
   853. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:10 AM (#5556914)
Yes. Trump is forced into an awkward phone call that he would rather not have to take. He is deeply uncomfortable with someone dying and feels a sense of guilt. Rather than comfort the man's pregnant widow, he says something that makes himself feel better--that the pregnant woman's husband "knew the risks."

That is what is so deeply offensive. He didn't bother to prepare, and when he found himself in an uncomfortable situation, he defaulted to making himself feel better.


No.

You're still pretending he's capable of empathy. He's not, not even subconsciously. He felt no "sense of guilt" (and FTR, a president cannot really think that way anyway. A sense of responsibility? Sure, absolutely.) He was annoyed because the press shamed into making the call. He was probably annoyed ON the call because the widow likely didn't vocally fellate him like he expects everyone to do.

People need to stop with the silly pretending that he's capable of processing anything in somewhat more common ways. The narcissist never does.
   854. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5556920)
Is it normal to have three Staff Sgts in a unit of 12 guys?


Probably. You don't go directly into an elite unit right from basic training. You probably need 4 years of experience minimum, and if you are exceptional enough to get selected, you would have easily made Sgt in the intervening 4 years.
   855. Shredder Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5556921)
If one is approaching such a statement behind a veil of ignorance, one should therefore assume that the statement was not meant to be disrespectful.
I'll cut Trump some slack here. I don't think he meant it to be disrespectful. Also, the scorpion didn't intend to sting the frog. It's just his nature. Sociopaths gonna sociopath.
   856. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5556922)
Go out, live your life, take in a ballgame, spend time with your families, go on some road trips... Enjoy life and unplug from this since it's making you completely crazy and you're ruining your life, is what I'd say and suggest. You are incapable of observing and analyzing events rationally.


Spectacular advice, if a little odd from someone who's gotta be in the top ten in postcount around here. Speaking from experience, perhaps.

47,948 posts and still going strong, and he didn't even start posting until three years after the site was re-launched in 2004. Just think of the number of road trips and the hours of family time he's missed out on.
   857. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:21 AM (#5556930)
So you DO think Trump is a skilled wordsmith? Is that what you're going with?
B- for the idea of trying to turn the discussion around on me; D+ for the execution of that idea. There's no contradiction in what I'm saying. I do not think he's a "skilled wordsmith." I do think he makes it clear what his personal sentiments are, however. (When he's not reading someone else's words from a teleprompter, obviously.)

You, on the other hand, have based two years of compliments towards him on the idea that he is a master at persuading people of his views with carefully chosen words ("linguistic kill shots" is one of the many ways you have fluffed him), and only now are pretending that he's so bumbling that he actually conveys the opposite of what he thinks.
   858. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:24 AM (#5556932)
I'll cut Trump some slack here. I don't think he meant it to be disrespectful. Also, the scorpion didn't intend to sting the frog. It's just his nature. Sociopaths gonna sociopath.


This is likely true, and literally the best reading one could ever give Trump on any issue.
   859. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5556938)
B- for the idea of trying to turn the discussion around on me; D+ for the execution of that idea. There's no contradiction in what I'm saying. I do not think he's a "skilled wordsmith." I do think he makes it clear what his personal sentiments are, however. (When he's not reading someone else's words from a teleprompter, obviously.)


There's no indication that he's skilled at accurately communicating his thoughts. That's what not being a skilled wordsmith IS.

You, on the other hand, have based two years of compliments towards him on the idea that he is a master at persuading people of his views with carefully chosen words ("linguistic kill shots" is one of the many ways you have fluffed him), and only now are pretending that he's so bumbling that he actually conveys the opposite of what he thinks.


You seem to be confusing me with the cartoonist.
   860. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5556939)
That is what is so deeply offensive.


Unplug. Live a life. It's not healthy to obsess about every word and action Donald Trump takes and makes and every comment anyone on Twitter makes about Donald Trump's words and actions.

It makes people unreflective and literally changes their ability to properly process and contextualize things. It actually makes people poor citizens for pluralist democracies. The sane among us do not like to see our partners in self-government in the throes of this deranged obsession -- anymore than we'd like them all to be crack addicts.
   861. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:33 AM (#5556942)
Trump: I didn't say that! I have proof!

Political analyst: I disagree, and I have proof!

Grab a seat and pull out the popcorn!

Let's see who reveals their proof first!

   862. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5556943)
There's no indication that he's skilled at accurately communicating his thoughts. That's what not being a skilled wordsmith IS.
Um, yes, I know they're different. That's why I said he's not a skilled wordsmith, but is skilled at accurately communicating his thoughts. (Actually, I said "sentiments," because dignifying them with the word "thoughts" seems like grade inflation.)
   863. PepTech Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:35 AM (#5556945)
I'll cut Trump some slack here. I don't think he meant it to be disrespectful. Also, the scorpion didn't intend to sting the frog. It's just his nature. Sociopaths gonna sociopath.

This is likely true, and literally the best reading one could ever give Trump on any issue.
I'll third that. In case anyone's keeping score:

1) Bringing other president's behavior into question: Needless; part of Trump's compulsion to present himself favorably in *any* situation. Partial pass for "spur of the moment", but it's more than a little unsettling that a POTUS' weird compulsions have become normalized.
2) Bringing Kelly into it, after having time to ponder strategy: Utterly reprehensible.
3) Making the call: I can't pretend I'd know what to say. If it's "he's a hero who was committed to his country, even though he knew the risks" then I don't see anything wrong with that. If it's "I know you must feel bad, but hey, he knew the risks" then that's clumsy and awful. Barring a transcript it's dumb (TDS?) to assume either one.
   864. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5556949)
What Ray fails to understand is that when one native speaker of English is speaking to another native speaker of English, a translator usually isn't required.

Well sure, if you insist on holding the leader of the free world to THAT sort of unfair standard...
   865. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5556951)
You seem to be confusing me with the cartoonist.

Well, in all fairness...
   866. PepTech Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5556955)
You, on the other hand, have based two years of compliments towards him on the idea that he is a master at persuading people of his views with carefully chosen words ("linguistic kill shots" is one of the many ways you have fluffed him), and only now are pretending that he's so bumbling that he actually conveys the opposite of what he thinks.

You seem to be confusing me with the cartoonist.
Ray, please take this constructively: When you present quotes without comment (whether Adams or Dershowitz or anyone else), the default implication is that you agree with the sentiment. By posting repeated articles from Adams without comment, *and* also in other posts praising Adams for his insights, it is logical to conclude you agree with the cartoonist unless otherwise explicitly stated.
   867. Omineca Greg Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:42 AM (#5556959)
Ishmael, #793 was great.

I'll resist the urge to say "Do God Told Nicodemus! Do God Told Nicodemus!"

Well-a God told Nicodemus, God told Nicodemus
God, oh yes He did, He told Nicodemus a man he must-a be born again
Well-a God told Nicodemus, God told Nicodemus
God, oh yes He did, He told Nicodemus a man he must-a be born again

Well there was a man among the Pharisees
By the name of Nicodemus who did not believe
Same Nicodemus came to God by night
Talkin' 'bout religion from the human sight
He brought along his silver, diamonds, and gold
Wanted to buy his way to Heaven and save his soul

Repeat Chorus

Well the same Nicodemus came a runnin' hard
Said "Has anybody here done seen the Lord?
I want to buy some 'ligion, but what will it cost
To get myself to Heaven 'fore my soul be lost?
Then my God spoke, He spoke so sweet
Sounded like the shuffle of angels feet
He said "Marvel thou man, if you want to be wise
You got to believe and be baptized"

Repeat Chorus

Then old Nicodemus was taken back
Cause God done told him 'bout the natural fact
He said "Marvel thou man, if you want to be wise
You got to believe and be baptized"
Old Nicodemus was taken back
Cause God done told him 'bout the natural fact
He said "I don't understand! I want to know
How can a man be born when he's old?"
Then my God spoke, His voice did ring
Sounded like the shuffle of angels wings
He said, "Marvel thou man, if you want to be wise
You got to believe and be baptized"

Repeat Chorus (x2)

Well-a God told Nicodemus, God told Nicodemus
God, oh yes He did, He told Nicodemus a man he must-a be born again
I said man you must-a be born again
We know that man you must-a be born again

Unknown


Wow, I looked it up on wikipedia, a lot to unpack there!
   868. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5556962)
1) Bringing other president's behavior into question: Needless; part of Trump's compulsion to present himself favorably in *any* situation. Partial pass for "spur of the moment", but it's more than a little unsettling that a POTUS' weird compulsions have become normalized.


Every president does this. Always have, always will.

3) Making the call: I can't pretend I'd know what to say. If it's "he's a hero who was committed to his country, even though he knew the risks" then I don't see anything wrong with that. If it's "I know you must feel bad, but hey, he knew the risks" then that's clumsy and awful. Barring a transcript it's dumb (TDS?) to assume either one.


This misses the real issue, which is why people are so obsessed with such minutia. So Trump is shitty at consoling loved ones of dead soldiers. (*) So what? The only reasonable answer to that question is social media and the reinforcing and amplifying echo chambers to which they inevitably lead.

(*) Assuming he is. He might not be. He very well might be.

   869. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5556965)
And Hillary apparently outright lied to the loved ones of the Benghazi deceased, according to direct testimony by said loved ones. Were you people following the Twitter feeds all day and all night about that?(*)

I don't recall anything like that, there.

(*) I can assure you I wasn't.
   870. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:52 AM (#5556966)
There's no world in which Wilson went into that call as a neutral participant.


I'm sure she didn't -- because as the original story noted, that's one of the reasons she was with the family.... I.e., the soldier had participated in a mentoring program some time back.
   871. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5556969)
Lol.

Imagining that Trump would actually say something disrespectful to a widow of a soldier.


Who could imagine him doing something so undignified.
   872. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5556970)
I've said before: When I visited family in Texas last Thanksgiving, they were singing Trump's praises to such an extent and vilifying Hillary to such an extent that they saw me as a Hillary supporter for pushing back.


"Ask Sean Hannity!"
   873. PepTech Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5556971)
Seems like I've heard this theory once or twice.
The foreign desk had a more sophisticated purpose, according to Max, who worked in that department. "It’s not just writing ‘Obama is a monkey’ and ‘Putin is great.’ They’ll even fine you for that kind of [primitive] stuff," he told Dozhd. In fact, those who worked for the foreign desk were restricted from spreading pro-Russia propaganda. Rather, Max said, their job was more qualitative and was geared toward understanding the "nuances" of American politics to "rock the boat" on divisive issues like gun control and LGBT rights.

"Our goal wasn’t to turn the Americans toward Russia," he added. "Our task was to set Americans against their own government: to provoke unrest and discontent, and to lower Obama’s support ratings."
Hmm. America has become more divided lately. Mission seemingly accomplished. Wasn't even that hard.
   874. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:56 AM (#5556972)
I'll cut Trump some slack here. I don't think he meant it to be disrespectful. Also, the scorpion didn't intend to sting the frog. It's just his nature. Sociopaths gonna sociopath.

This is likely true, and literally the best reading one could ever give Trump on any issue.
I'll third that. In case anyone's keeping score:


Absolutely. I don't think anyone is saying that he set out to be mean to grieving widow... it's just who he is.

   875. BrianBrianson Posted: October 18, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5556974)
It's not healthy to obsess about every word and action Donald Trump takes and makes and every comment anyone on Twitter makes about Donald Trump's words and actions.


It's certainly a lot easier for his defenders if his detractors don't pay attention to anything he says or does.
   876. PepTech Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5556979)
1) Bringing other president's behavior into question: Needless; part of Trump's compulsion to present himself favorably in *any* situation. Partial pass for "spur of the moment", but it's more than a little unsettling that a POTUS' weird compulsions have become normalized.

Every president does this. Always have, always will.
Going to have to ask for some citations, here, for that claim.

Trump is the guy who has to have the highest IQ, the best ratings, knows more than the generals, the most about debt, and on and on. It's a bit of rhetoric he employs *constantly*, and it's legitimately an open question as to whether he actually believes all his claims. He certainly gets defensive if questioned about them.

Among those he compares himself to, by putting them down, are his predecessors. He's done more than any other POTUS, he has enacted more legislation, he has the biggest inaugural crowd, he's better at comforting soldiers... specifically better at ALL these things than ANY OTHER POTUS.

Do you have any quotes from any other POTUS along these lines, apart from some generic "compared to my predecessor" emptiness? Trump is much more specific, and much more pervasive, and much more indignant that he's *actually* better.
   877. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5556984)
and it's legitimately an open question as to whether he actually believes all his claims.


I think it very unlikely he believes it. Everyone I have ever known who talks even half as much about how great they are has turned out to have a raging inferiority complex. And that fits with what we know of him and his childhood. I mean I am not pretending to know if he has one, maybe he is just delusional, but I am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe (absent more information) he is just really insecure and not an actual lunatic.
   878. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:18 PM (#5556988)
Absolutely. I don't think anyone is saying that he set out to be mean to grieving widow... it's just who he is.


And of course, the follow on fact that no such person could ever be remotely qualified to hold the nuclear codes should go without saying. Unless you're a Trumpkin cockholster, this is self evident.
   879. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:33 PM (#5556999)
I'm fine with my stipulation above, but there's no reason in this ultra-tribal age, to believe an opposition Congresswoman's account of a private call that she did not listen to.
I already gave the reason, the widow who can easily refute her in public, or through a spokesperson, which would cause far greater harm to the congresswoman than she hopes to do to Trump. I'm not going to believe her exact characterization, but I can believe that she got the jist and the tone essentially correct. There is a lot of potential downside for her is she's making things up. And if it turns out she is, then she's worse than Trump.
It would be a yuuge risk, especially for an elected official, since things Trump says are likely being recorded by someone (from the perspective of the accuser, you have to take into account the possibility). It would be very dangerous, probably a career-ending mistake, to lie or misrepresent what he said. That gives her some credibility.
   880. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5557002)
Should this be taken into consideration wrt specific, high-profile crimes, or allegations of crimes that result in high level of notoriety? There are always some in the news.

Seems as if the point of the study is that it's all pointless, all counterproductive. Why charge, why prosecute, why incarcerate? Hey, it's all one big hippie commune, man, where everyone has chilled out, gets along. Just smoke that weed and eat those veggies, and only veggies, and everything will be copacetic.
This sounds an awful lot like Holder's "collateral consequences" guidance. That has worked out great for the financial industry.
   881. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5557001)
And Hillary apparently outright lied to the loved ones of the Benghazi deceased, according to direct testimony by said loved ones.


And Donald Rumsfeld lied to the loved ones of the Iraq War of Adventure when he said we knew where the WMDs were! Where was the outrage there?

Anyways, back to the real issue at hand - BENGHAZI!
   882. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:37 PM (#5557004)
Everyone I have ever known who talks even half as much about how great they are has turned out to have a raging inferiority complex.

"Turned out to have," as if it were ever in doubt?
   883. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:38 PM (#5557005)
"Turned out to have," as if it were ever in doubt?


"Was confirmed as I knew them better over the years."

   884. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5557008)
An update: “Even though he knew what he signed up for it still hurts.” So - not purposefully hurtful (for once), but about as ignorant to one's feelings as he could be.

As my older brother says about 17 times a week when discussing the latest Trumpisms, "Imagine Obama doing something like that. Oh wait, you can't."
   885. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:42 PM (#5557012)
Seems as if the point of the study is that it's all pointless, all counterproductive. Why charge, why prosecute, why incarcerate? Hey, it's all one big hippie commune, man, where everyone has chilled out, gets along. Just smoke that weed and eat those veggies, and only veggies, and everything will be copacetic.
It can only possibly "seem" that way if you didn't read it, or read the blog posts about it, or even the Vox article about it.
   886. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:42 PM (#5557013)
And of course, the follow on fact that no such person could ever be remotely qualified to hold the nuclear codes should go without saying.


There isn't the slightest connection between the two.

   887. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:43 PM (#5557014)
Sgt Johnson's mom -- also in the car and on the call -- backs up Wilson's account.

   888. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5557016)
Sgt Johnson's mom -- also in the car and on the call -- backs up Wilson's account is unhinged and suffering from TDS.
   889. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:50 PM (#5557018)
Word.

But I want to step back from the immediate moment of this call to look at this whole unfolding moment over the last two or three days. It’s what I said yesterday. President Trump is poison. Everything around him gets damaged and degraded. It’s not any one thing. It’s everything. It’s hard to evaluate the dynamics of this call out of the context of waiting ten days, lying about his predecessors, creating this hideous spectacle with James Kelly’s son. Was the family prepped for something off because of the preceding three days? Probably. Was Trump angry about all the criticism? Probably so. It’s a perfect storm. And it all builds out of one man, Donald Trump.

There’s a big debate about Trump and clinical diagnoses. Malignant narcissism is the one most clinicians refer to. But that’s a distraction. You’re talking about someone with a profound selfishness, a jarring inability to have empathy and a kind of ravenous emotional predation. Someone who is a profound narcissist is inherently erratic and destructive to those around him since they are acting according to their own impulses, angers and appetites with a relative indifference or even a sort of blindness to those around him. They don’t exist. Lots of wreckage is inevitable. That’s what it’s like living, trapped, in a house with an abuser. This is what it’s like living in a country with a President who’s a predator.
   890. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:50 PM (#5557019)
There's no world in which Wilson went into that call as a neutral participant.
Um, Wilson didn't "go into the call" with anything. The call was made to Johnson's widow, and Wilson just happened to be there.
   891. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:51 PM (#5557020)
All the derangement simply feeds into a point I've made many times. We need a figurehead to do things like comfort the loved ones of fallen soldiers -- a king, a queen, a Kardashian, whatever -- and someone else to do the important work as chief executive.

Combining the head of state and the head of government is a surpassingly stupid idea, and we're seeing why here. It turns the citizenry into a bunch of mush-heads.

Maybe Great Britain would take us back.
   892. Hysterical & Useless Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:52 PM (#5557021)
That longer incarceration increases recidivism is a little surprising - a criminal record makes it really hard to get work, so it certainly motivates a lot of petty crime, but I'm surprised the length matters much.


This summer I read Malcolm Braly's On the Yard, his fictionalized account of his years in the California prison system. In his telling, many of the long-timers simply had no skills for coping on the outside, and would, once released, do something stupid almost immediately in order to get sent "home" to prison again.
   893. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:53 PM (#5557022)
But I want to step back from the immediate moment of this call to look at this whole unfolding moment over the last two or three days. It’s what I said yesterday. President Trump is poison. Everything around him gets damaged and degraded. It’s not any one thing. It’s everything. It’s hard to evaluate the dynamics of this call out of the context of waiting ten days, lying about his predecessors, creating this hideous spectacle with James Kelly’s son. Was the family prepped for something off because of the preceding three days? Probably. Was Trump angry about all the criticism? Probably so. It’s a perfect storm. And it all builds out of one man, Donald Trump.

There’s a big debate about Trump and clinical diagnoses. Malignant narcissism is the one most clinicians refer to. But that’s a distraction. You’re talking about someone with a profound selfishness, a jarring inability to have empathy and a kind of ravenous emotional predation. Someone who is a profound narcissist is inherently erratic and destructive to those around him since they are acting according to their own impulses, angers and appetites with a relative indifference or even a sort of blindness to those around him. They don’t exist. Lots of wreckage is inevitable. That’s what it’s like living, trapped, in a house with an abuser. This is what it’s like living in a country with a President who’s a predator.


This kind of drivel could only come from an addict and reads as the scribblings of an addict would read.

Unplug. Live your life.

It really doesn't matter if Donald Trump isn't good at consoling soldiers' wives.(*) It really and truly does not.

Balance and proportion, proportion and balance.

(*) Assuming he isn't.
   894. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:53 PM (#5557023)
Anyways, back to the real issue at hand - BENGHAZI! Hillary's Email Server


FTFY.


Wow, FBI confirms report that James Comey drafted letter exonerating Crooked Hillary Clinton long before investigation was complete. Many..
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 18, 2017

...people not interviewed, including Clinton herself. Comey stated under oath that he didn't do this-obviously a fix? Where is Justice Dept?
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 18, 2017

As it has turned out, James Comey lied and leaked and totally protected Hillary Clinton. He was the best thing that ever happened to her!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 18, 2017
   895. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:53 PM (#5557024)
All the derangement simply feeds into a point I've made many times. We need a figurehead to do things like comfort the loved ones of fallen soldiers -- a king, a queen, a Kardashian, whatever -- and someone else to do the important work as chief executive.

Combining the head of state and the head of government is a surpassingly stupid idea, and we're seeing why here. It turns the citizenry into a bunch of mush-heads.


Yet somehow, the previous 44 Presidents managed to pull it off... and stop pretending like you're original, rather than nakedly ganking a pretty famous Mike Royko column without attribution.
   896. madvillain Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:54 PM (#5557025)
If there was ever a man that deserves the benefit of the doubt based on his kind, emphatic record -- it's Trump!

Is this real life? Ray? Are you serious with this ####?
   897. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:56 PM (#5557026)
Unplug. Live your life.


You keep saying this, but you're still here.
   898. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5557027)
whole unfolding moment


There is no "unfolding moment." A guy made a phone call.

That one would think there is, is a sign of deep addiction.
   899. Traderdave Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5557028)
Trump is indeed a narcissist of stupendous proportion. Thing is, though, he's lousy at it. Lots of politicians are narcissists, and even the humblest ones who aren't generally have very healthy egos. Ego is just about a requirement for the job.

But skilled narcissists know how to cloak their extreme self-centeredness and make it look like, at least for a while, that they can have such feelings as empathy & regret. That's how they hook in their targets.

Trump sucks at being one, just as he sucks at most things.
   900. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5557031)
Word.


How do you read anything at that site? It won't let me read the text, it continually jumps to the bottom of the page to show me the video ad. I tried about 20 times to scroll up to read the text, and every time I did, the page jumped to the bottom to put the ad on screen.
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