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Monday, September 18, 2017

OTP 18 September 2017: Ex-Baseball Star Darryl Strawberry Criticizes Jemele Hill, Praises POTUS: Trump is ‘A Great Man’

“I think no one should call anyone anything. President Trump, he’s a great man to me. He was always gracious to me. I really love him, his family, I was on his show and he’s always been kind to me… I’ve known him quite well and every time I’ve seen him and been around him he’s always been so gracious with me and I’m always grateful for that.”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:53 AM | 1552 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: daryl strawberry, politics

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   1. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5533837)
First. So ######' what?
   2. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5533840)
I'm sure the amount of hookers & blow Trump provided Darryl in the 80's and 90's was prodigious.
   3. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:32 PM (#5533841)
blow Trump


Oh they'll be here soon enough.
   4. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:47 PM (#5533851)
Old thread 1776

Or Steven Miller in the Trump admin. He is only 32.



Miller looks like the love-child of Roy Cohn & Josef Goebbels...
   5. TDF, FCL Posted: September 18, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5533855)
To go completely off the rails on the age thing, I think the new Gogurt commercials are the funniest ads I've seen in a long time. My wife vehemently disagrees.
   6. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:11 PM (#5533860)
The glee here over Pelosi & Schumer negotiating with Trump may have been premature - Pelosi Shouted Down By Activists Over DACA Deal With Trump:
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi held a press conference Monday in San Francisco to discuss her tentative deal with President Donald Trump to protect young undocumented immigrants from deportation, but the event was disrupted for more than half an hour by activists angry at her compromise to increase border security.

Pelosi eventually left the news conference as protesters yelled, "You’re a liar.”

Don't think Dems will get a DACA deal without offering to compromise, but that remains controversial on the left.
   7. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:11 PM (#5533861)
TDF, trust your wife's judgment.
   8. PreservedFish Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5533862)
Today for the first time I clicked on Spotify's "discover weekly." This is ####### brilliant. It makes a playlist of music you'll probably like, based on what you've been listening to, but it also seems to restrict the bands to ones that you've possibly never heard of. In the first hour I got:

"The Egyptian Shumba", a weird little nugget from a forgotten girl band
This obscure Krautrock supergroup (oxymoron, I know)
"Frantic Romantic," by an Australian post-punk group I'd never heard of called The Scientists
This sexy modern Gainsbourgy Brazilian group

Right now it's playing solo Art Garfunkel doing a bossa nova cover. It played a song by "Ray Cathode," which I guess is pseudonym George Martin used while recording quirky stuff for television; Annette Peacock, who I'd never heard of before; July, a 60s psych group I had heard of but had forgetten about; a Badfinger deep cut; a Bryan Ferry solo thing I'd never heard; a few contemporary little garage rock revivalists and such. It's tremendous.
   9. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:16 PM (#5533863)
Why Donald Trump’s tweets are only going to get worse

Like others who feel frustrated by their day jobs, the president vents on social media.

Over the weekend, the president went on what can only be described as a Twitter bender.

...

What is interesting is that Trump’s more unhinged Twitter tantrums are occurring at the same time that his White House operation is being professionalized and de-MAGAfied, if you will.

...

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that these two phenomena are related. The more that the White House chief of staff weeds out the sycophants and malcontents, the more that the toddler in chief will rebel.

...

There are two ways to react to this dialectic. The first, alas, is to simply shrug off Trump’s more idiotic tweets. Yes, most of his tweets are outrageous, but they are also toothless. Some might argue that simply shrugging off deranged tweets is normalizing the Trump administration. The thing is, we are only nine months into the lamest administration in modern history. Outrage needs to be conserved as a resource for the important stuff.

The second reaction is to marvel at the ways in which Trump has neutered his presidency.

...

It is not surprising that Trump has not figured out how to run the executive branch. It is a little more surprising to see him squander the one tool he mastered during the presidential campaign. Back in January, his bravado on Twitter seemed genuinely menacing. In the run-up to Inauguration Day, he could tweet at a company and its stock price buckled.

What has changed in the past nine months is that Trump has been proven to be a weak and feckless president. Yes, his administration has racked up some accomplishments, but none that it can brag about in public. At this point, when Trump promises or threatens on Twitter, no one believes him. As he acts more and more hysterical online, he will further erode his ability to use social media to set the agenda.

It is sad and scary that Donald Trump is the president. But even as his Twitter behavior worsens, it also reveals his impotence as a leader. As insufferable as his tweets might be, it is his impotence that is worth remembering.
   10. Ishmael Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:20 PM (#5533867)
William Hague. When he became head of he Conservatives in the UK in 1997, he was only 36, but looked at least 10 years older.

Hague in 1977 addressing the Conservative party conference at the age of 16.
   11. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:21 PM (#5533868)
   12. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:25 PM (#5533870)
I loved The Fountain.
   13. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:26 PM (#5533872)
Hague in 1977 addressing the Conservative party conference at the age of 16.

When he was 16, he looked like Peter Noone of Herman's Hermits. When he was 36, he looked like this Not into something good
   14. Ishmael Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:28 PM (#5533873)
You might enjoy this interview with Daniel Bonevac, professor of philosophy at the University of Texas.

Some highlights:
Any doubts about your religious views?

No, not at all. I have doubts about many theological issues, including free will, but not about the basic doctrines of Christianity.

Really? Zero doubts?

Pretty much. I’ll grant that it’s epistemically possible that God doesn’t exist. But it’s also epistemically possible that I’m a brain in a vat or that an evil deceiver is tricking me. None of those lead to serious doubt.

I find Pascal’s wager helpful as a defense against doubt, whatever its demerits as a positive argument in favor of belief might be. What if God doesn’t exist? There’s nothing to be gained by following that line of thinking.

How have students changed over the past 30 years, you think?

It’s hard to say, in general. At UT they‘ve become much better. Our median SAT score went from 1020 in 1980 to over 1255 a few years ago. (I’m not sure what it is now.) Students have become better writers and clearer thinkers. But they don’t necessarily know more. In fact I’m often shocked at how little history and literature they know. Who were the Romantic poets? Who were our chief allies and enemies in World War I? I think a higher percentage of students would have known the answers in 1980 than today.

On a related note, you are one of a few philosophers who recently admitted to supporting Trump.
[snip]
How do you feel about Trump's performance thus far? Is this what you expected?
I’m very pleased with his performance. I wish he’d get the White House in better order, and whip the Republicans in Congress into shape. Neither problem is surprising; there’s often a shakeup in White House staff during the first year of an administration, because campaigning and governing are two different things, and for Trump, an outsider to politics, this was bound to be worse than usual. And his outsider status meant that relations with Republicans in Congress were bound to be an issue. But otherwise I’m happy. He’s appointing judges who will follow the law rather than make it up. He’s getting rid of regulations that produce more harm than good. He’s heeding his oath of office by enforcing the law, and already employment, wages, the stock market, and consumer confidence are up. We’re regaining our credibility on the world stage. He’s doing well. But it’s still early.

I think the most important thing is that Trump is returning political decision-making to the legislative branch, where it belongs. The Obama administration relied heavily on executive branch edicts and judicial decisions. Whether you like what it did or not—I consider its actions, on the whole, disastrous—it ruled in an undemocratic, authoritarian fashion. That’s the essence of progressivism: rule by an unelected elite, unfettered by Constitutional checks and balances. I support Trump because I think he understands that and intends to reverse it.
   15. Ishmael Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:29 PM (#5533874)
Oh and I liked this bit:
Love Haidt. I’m not a theist. Why do you think most philosophers are atheists or agnostics?

Again, this hasn’t always been true. Philosophers, like other groups, however, are herd animals. At some point religious belief went out of fashion.

The late 19th and early 20th centuries witnessed a lot of intellectual assaults on religious belief, from the “higher criticism” of the Bible to Marx and Nietzsche to the anthropological/sociological/psychological attacks of Durkheim, Malinowski, Freud, Eliade, etc. And what is avant garde at one point tends to become orthodoxy about a century later—while still considering itself edgy and avant garde!

I’ve taught a course at my church on these attacks on religious belief, and, going back to the sources, it’s striking how unscientific it all is. The evidence is thin. The arguments are terrible when they exist at all. But the attitude persists that a scientifically minded person can’t believe in God.

Inspired by Alvin Plantinga, among others, more Christians are studying philosophy and becoming philosophers. So, I think this attitude’s days may be numbered.
   16. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5533875)
Any doubts about your religious views?

No, not at all. I have doubts about many theological issues, including free will, but not about the basic doctrines of Christianity.


Can you cast a magic spell on a cracker and turn it into supernatural meat? Let's not mince around with this "basic doctrines" hedging.
   17. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5533876)
That's only the Catholics, YR.
   18. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:38 PM (#5533877)
Hey, if Mr. Philosophy Dude wants to say they aren't Christian that's his call. I only know where Jack Chick falls on that theological battle.
   19. Mike A Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:40 PM (#5533879)
What if God doesn’t exist? There’s nothing to be gained by following that line of thinking.

Frees up Sunday mornings, which in turn leads to the perfect chance to make patented space-age out-of-this-world moon waffles.
   20. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:47 PM (#5533881)
I took intro philosophy from an openly Catholic professor at undergrad who never sounded this ridiculous.
   21. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:49 PM (#5533882)
Lofl.

Again, I'll believe that Hillary won't run again when I (don't) see it.

Hillary Clinton might challenge President Trump’s win if more evidence emerges of Russian meddling


BY
Jason Silverstein
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Updated: Monday, September 18, 2017, 3:49 PM

Hillary Clinton suggested in an interview Monday that she might challenge the legitimacy of President Trump’s victory if more evidence emerges of Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

On NPR’s “Fresh Air,” host Terry Gross pressed Clinton on whether she would rule out questioning Trump’s win as the investigation into Russia’s meddling continues.

“No. I would not,” Clinton said.

“No, I wouldn't rule it out.”

Clinton acknowledged that she doesn’t know of any established method for challenging Trump’s win — which would create an unprecedented situation of a defeated presidential candidate disputing an election long after it has been settled.

But she suggested the overturn this month of Kenya’s presidential election might provide a path.

“What happened in Kenya, which I'm only beginning to delve into, is that the Supreme Court there said there are so many really unanswered and problematic questions, we're going to throw the election out and re-do it,” Clinton said.

"We have no such provision in our country. And usually we don't need it.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/clinton-challenge-trump-win-russia-evidence-article-1.3504595


Ahhh, the grand American tradition of Accepting The Results Of A US Election.
   22. BDC Posted: September 18, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5533883)
Ishmael, you buried the lede :)

As a kid, what did you do for fun?

Baseball. I followed the Pirates religiously. I read books on the history of baseball. I played baseball. I invented imaginary baseball leagues in which my stuffed animals were key players. (Even today, my head is full of baseball statistics.) Highlights from my childhood are the times I got to go to games at Forbes Field. I saw a lot of greats play: Roberto Clemente, Willie Stargell, Bill Mazeroski, Willie Mays, Juan Marichal, Orlando Cepeda, Don Drysdale, Frank Howard, Maury Wills, Ken Boyer, Hank Aaron, Ernie Banks, Dick Allen, the Alou brothers—the list goes on and on. When I was in graduate school in the late 1970s I saw dozens of games each year at Three Rivers Stadium, including the three World Series games played in Pittsburgh in 1979. I still have the baseball fouled into the stands by Dave Parker in the first inning of game 5.


No wonder he believes in God, following the Pirates in the 1970s. It's all the Cub fans who became atheists.
   23. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:04 PM (#5533884)
Ray, elections have been overturned due to " irregularities". You could look it up if you don't believe it.
   24. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:06 PM (#5533885)
Ahhh, the grand American tradition of Accepting The Results Of A US Election.


Billy Collins was a loser, he couldn't accept the results of his boxing match.
   25. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:06 PM (#5533886)
Ray, elections have been overturned due to " irregularities".


Those people are losers.
   26. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:09 PM (#5533887)

How have students changed over the past 30 years, you think?

It’s hard to say, in general. At UT they‘ve become much better. Our median SAT score went from 1020 in 1980 to over 1255 a few years ago. (I’m not sure what it is now.) Students have become better writers and clearer thinkers. But they don’t necessarily know more. In fact I’m often shocked at how little history and literature they know. Who were the Romantic poets? Who were our chief allies and enemies in World War I? I think a higher percentage of students would have known the answers in 1980 than today.


I sympathize with the prof's alarm, but I wonder how much his students in 1980 knew about Reconstruction? That would have been about as distant to them as World War I would be to today's students, and its lessons are equally important, maybe even more so.
   27. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:13 PM (#5533889)
So, Trump wants to have a parade in DCshowing off our military hardware. Am I wrong, or is that an incredibly bad idea? Those are the sorts of things Chiona, Russia, NK, South American dictatorships do, not us.
   28. PreservedFish Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:15 PM (#5533890)
What if God doesn’t exist? There’s nothing to be gained by following that line of thinking.


Great argument, prof.

But I'm not one for philosophy. I listened to a podcast this weekend about the ontological argument and I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

Anselm defined God as "that than which nothing greater can be thought", and argued that this being must exist in the mind, even in the mind of the person who denies the existence of God. He suggested that, if the greatest possible being exists in the mind, it must also exist in reality. If it only exists in the mind, then an even greater being must be possible—one which exists both in the mind and in reality. Therefore, this greatest possible being must exist in reality.

This doesn't make a damned bit of sense to me.
   29. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:21 PM (#5533894)
Clinton said if she had been elected president and the US intelligence community told her of Russia’s involvement, “I would’ve never stood for it.”

“Even though it might’ve advantaged me, I would’ve said, ‘We’ve got to get to the bottom of this.’ I would’ve set up an independent commission with subpoena power and everything else,” she said in the interview published online Monday.


Tee. Hee.
   30. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:22 PM (#5533895)
Speaking of the Russians and the way they've managed to spread fake news during the election campaign, did anyone see this cover story from yesterday's Times Magazine?

RT, Sputnik and Russia’s New Theory of War - How the Kremlin built one of the most powerful information weapons of the 21st century — and why it may be impossible to stop.

It's a fairly long article, but there were three paragraphs that really jumped out:

Within the fake-news network, Kelly explained, RT** was high on the list of most-followed accounts, but it was not the highest — it ranked No. 117 out of roughly 12,000 accounts he was tracking. Its website was the 12th-most-cited by the fake-news consumers and purveyors — ahead of The New York Times and The Washington Post but behind Breitbart and Infowars.

What was more interesting was who followed RT. It drew substantially from all quadrants of Kelly’s fake-news universe — Trump supporters and Bernie Sanders supporters, Occupy Wall Streeters and libertarians — which made it something of a rarity. “The Russians aren’t just pumping up the right wing in America,” Kelly said. “They’re also pumping up left-wing stuff — they’re basically trying to pump up the fringe at the expense of the middle......

It’s hard to imagine Russia’s state-backed media getting any traction in the United States if there wasn’t already an audience for it. For some subset of Americans, the intelligence report singling out RT and Sputnik was just another attack from the supposed “deep state” that Breitbart, for instance, had been fuming about for months — and it was less than surprising when, this spring, Sputnik hired a former Breitbart reporter, Lee Stranahan, to start a radio show in Washington. As Stranahan told The Atlantic, though his paycheck might now come from the Russians, “Nothing about it really affects my position on stuff that I’ve had for years now.

Emphasis added

** Russia’s state-financed international cable network, available on all our basic cable providers
   31. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:22 PM (#5533896)
Now, I do believe we should abolish the Electoral College, because I was sitting listening to a report on the French election and the French political analyst said, `You know in our country the person with the most votes wins, unlike in yours.’ And I think that’s an anachronism. I’ve said that since 2000​,” Clinton told NPR​.


Shocking.

France: Where you can go to get your crappy health care, your crappy gun control laws, and your crappy elections.
   32. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:27 PM (#5533898)
More from that Times Magazine article:


In a handful of cases, picking through the tangles of information, true and otherwise, that shaped the election, it was possible to isolate a single strand that could be traced to Russian news sources. One of the most striking cases came in late July 2016, when Sputnik and RT reported that thousands of police officers had surrounded a NATO air base in Turkey amid rumors of a coup attempt — a report that turned out to be exaggerated (there was a planned, peaceful demonstration, and the police were there to secure the area in preparation for a visit the next day by the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff). Three internet-security analysts, now working together at the Alliance for Securing Democracy at the German Marshall Fund, followed the story’s progress through the social-media landscape. Within the first 78 minutes, a large number of Twitter accounts — many of which they identified as pro-Russian bots — picked up the flawed story and blasted it out in some 4,000 tweets, one of the researchers, a former F.B.I. agent named Clinton Watts, testified before the Senate last spring.

Some of the accounts added the hashtag “#Benghazi” and warned that thousands of Muslims were on the brink of acquiring the nuclear weapons held at the NATO base. Others included “#TrumpPence16” hashtags, along with words like “America,” “Constitution” and “conservative.” Large numbers of the tweets included accusations that the “MSM” — mainstream media — wasn’t covering the attack. The RT story racked up thousands of shares on Reddit and was picked up on David Duke’s webpage. About two weeks later, in an interview with Jake Tapper of CNN, Trump’s campaign manager at the time, Paul Manafort, said: “You had the NATO base in Turkey being under attack by terrorists.” He claimed the media had ignored it. Watts told me: “That’s when we were like, ‘Whoa, this is a whole new level.’ ”

But such clear-cut instances were rare. In other cases, the network simply nudged along existing or nascent conspiracy theories: about Hillary Clinton’s health, about a Google plan to rig the election for her, about stock conspiracists’ obsessions like the Rothschild family, the Bilderberg Group and the Illuminati. In general, the social-media matrix is so opaque, with anyone able to set up an account under any persona, that “you can only crack a piece of it,” Watts’s colleague J.M. Berger told me.

After the D.N.C. staff member Seth Rich was, according to the police, murdered in a botched robbery attempt on July 10, one of the first inklings of the conspiracy theory that continues to swirl around his death — that he might have been behind the leaked D.N.C. emails that WikiLeaks distributed that summer — was a video posted to YouTube on July 29 of the American RT host Lori Harfenist wondering aloud: “No one in the media is reporting that one of the D.N.C.’s employees who had ready access to the email servers was just mysteriously murdered in the middle of the night?” But far-right media outlets, and the Republican presidential nominee, had spent the election trafficking in baseless conspiracy theories, too. As Simonyan pointed out to me, “Fox raised similar questions” about Rich’s death....

What was P. T. Barnum saying?
   33. BDC Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:31 PM (#5533903)
France: Where you can go to get your crappy health care, your crappy gun control laws, and your crappy elections

I believe the term for this attitude is esprit de clocher :)
   34. Mike A Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:32 PM (#5533904)
Your (probable) next US Senator from Alabama, Roy Moore:

We have blacks and whites fighting, reds and yellows fighting, Democrats and Republicans fighting, men and women fighting. What’s going to unite us? What’s going to bring us back together? A president? A Congress? No. It’s going to be God.

It's hard to be less progressive than the-man-he-will-replace Jeff Sessions, but Moore has somehow accomplished that feat.
   35. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:34 PM (#5533905)
So, Trump wants to have a parade in DCshowing off our military hardware. Am I wrong, or is that an incredibly bad idea? Those are the sorts of things Chiona, Russia, NK, South American dictatorships do, not us.


It's not really news - he tried to do something similar for the inauguration.
   36. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:35 PM (#5533906)
Hey, if HRC gets the election overturned, does Bivens get his money back? ;)

ETA: Lest Ray think I'm serious, HRC is batshit crazy, but feel free to keep obsessing over her, it's entertaining!

ETA2: Countdown to "All you lefties have been stumping for the election to be overturned since the beginning" in 3...2...1...
   37. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:36 PM (#5533907)
reds and yellows fighting


Native Americans and Asians? Communists and cowards? The sunburned and the jaundiced?

What is he talking about?
   38. BDC Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:39 PM (#5533909)
Take all the reds
On their boxes made for soap
Whites on Fifth Avenue
Blues down on Wall Street losing hope
Big bargain today
Chief, take 'em away
   39. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:40 PM (#5533911)
Clinton said if she had been elected president and the US intelligence community told her of Russia’s involvement, “I would’ve never stood for it.”

“Even though it might’ve advantaged me, I would’ve said, ‘We’ve got to get to the bottom of this.’ I would’ve set up an independent commission with subpoena power and everything else,” she said in the interview published online Monday.


In the spirit of Jerry's retort to George Costanza's absurd remarks about his "artistic integrity," you aren't President, Hillary, and you have no integrity.
   40. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:44 PM (#5533914)
you aren't President, Hillary


Even if she's not the president, she's just as qualified as anyone else to say what she'd do if she were.
   41. TDF, FCL Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:47 PM (#5533916)
“Now, I do believe we should abolish the Electoral College, because I was sitting listening to a report on the French election and the French political analyst said, `You know in our country the person with the most votes wins, unlike in yours.’ And I think that’s an anachronism. I’ve said that since 2000​,” Clinton told NPR​.

Shocking.
Ray - I have to wonder if you'd feel the same way about the EC if Rs had won the popular vote, but lost the EC, twice in the past 5 elections - after it had happened twice in the previous 200 years.

   42. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:48 PM (#5533917)
Even if she's not the president, she's just as qualified as anyone else to say what she'd do if she were.


People who congenitally lie about real things tend not to tell the truth about hypotheticals, but YMMV.
   43. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:50 PM (#5533919)
I think the guys i paid off are honorable and would refund me their winnings. I'd call it square.
   44. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:51 PM (#5533920)
“No. I would not,” Clinton said.

“No, I wouldn't rule it out.”

Clinton acknowledged that she doesn’t know of any established method for challenging Trump’s win — which would create an unprecedented situation of a defeated presidential candidate disputing an election long after it has been settled.

But she suggested the overturn this month of Kenya’s presidential election might provide a path.

“What happened in Kenya, which I'm only beginning to delve into, is that the Supreme Court there said there are so many really unanswered and problematic questions, we're going to throw the election out and re-do it,” Clinton said.


Yeah, that's well-adjusted. "Delving into" the possibility of the "Kenya precedent" to overturn an American presidential election a year-plus after it happened.

Great candidate you picked there, Dems.
   45. zenbitz Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:51 PM (#5533921)
My sister is a philosophy/classics prof who converted to Catholicism (like seriously... almost became a nun before going back to teaching). Catholicism and Philosophy are very internally consistent.

I am having trouble squaring Philosophy and Trump *support*. Maybe some kind of Conservative Utilitarian.

...He’s appointing judges who will follow the law rather than make it up. He’s getting rid of regulations that produce more harm than good. He’s heeding his oath of office by enforcing the law, and already employment, wages, the stock market, and consumer confidence are up. We’re regaining our credibility on the world stage...


Hey he did appoint that one Judge!

   46. zenbitz Posted: September 18, 2017 at 05:56 PM (#5533924)
But the attitude persists that a scientifically minded person can’t believe in God....
Inspired by Alvin Plantinga, among others, more Christians are studying philosophy and becoming philosophers.


Wait, is he conflating philosophers and "scientifically minded" people? Of course scientists (who, I would imagine are "scientifically minded people") can be religious. But if their _definitionally_ unprovable beliefs get in the way of their science, then they are poor scientists. Note that non-religious beliefs and biases can also make poor science!.

   47. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:01 PM (#5533926)
In the spirit of Jerry's retort to George Costanza's absurd remarks about his "artistic integrity," you aren't President, Hillary, and you have no integrity.


She lost to Trump. It's just so funny.

But perhaps not as funny as the hordes of Hillary fans left crying in the Javitz Center after their predestined candidate failed to win - or to even show up to console them.
   48. zenbitz Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:02 PM (#5533928)
I wonder how much his students in 1980 knew about Reconstruction


Unknown, but I am sure they were all taught about how Great it was that the Union went easy on the defeated Southerners (well, the white ones anyway). This is what I was taught in high school in 1985. In San Francisco.
   49. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:04 PM (#5533929)
Hey he did appoint that one Judge!

Actually, six Trump judicial nominees have been confirmed; with 47 more nominees awaiting Senate action. Almost 100 more vacancies in the current pipeline, too.
   50. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:05 PM (#5533930)
Given that our 44th President was Kenyan it's not inappropriate.
   51. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:06 PM (#5533933)
People who congenitally lie about real things tend not to tell the truth about hypotheticals, but YMMV.


I tend to lose track of these things - are you the fake lawyer?
   52. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:06 PM (#5533934)
I wonder how much his students in 1980 knew about Reconstruction

Unknown, but I am sure they were all taught about how Great it was that the Union went easy on the defeated Southerners (well, the white ones anyway). This is what I was taught in high school in 1985. In San Francisco.


Yes, and we know that the period from 1877 to 1953 was one of great "reconciliation"---as long as you were white.
   53. zenbitz Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:07 PM (#5533936)
He suggested that, if the greatest possible being exists in the mind, it must also exist in reality. If it only exists in the mind, then an even greater being must be possible—one which exists both in the mind and in reality. Therefore, this greatest possible being must exist in reality.


Hey, it's pretty cutting edge for the 11th Century AD. But obviously absurd. Just replace "being" with "hot dog".
   54. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:08 PM (#5533937)
Holy Hurricane; looks like Dominica is the next candidate for de-population. They look completely screwed; they don't seem to have fully recovered from Tropical Storm Erika in 2015, and this one is a Cat 4 direct hit. Guadeloupe is going to get the NE fury sector treatment; hopefully France is ready with some supplies this time...
   55. TDF, FCL Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:09 PM (#5533938)
Unknown, but I am sure they were all taught about how Great it was that the Union went easy on the defeated Southerners (well, the white ones anyway). This is what I was taught in high school in 1985. In San Francisco.
Luckily my American History teacher (I graduated HS in '81) wasn't up for such shenanigans; he was definitely in the "the Civil War was about slavery" camp. It's from him that I learned that the Confederacy was a bunch of traitors who started the war so they could own slaves. He also to this day gives speeches to HS students and civic groups as Lincoln (and actually looks passably like ol' Abe).
   56. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:09 PM (#5533939)
Rockwell sounds like Joey B.
   57. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:11 PM (#5533940)
What was P. T. Barnum saying?

That those suggesting there were otherwise persuadable Hillary voters who didn't vote for her because of Russia Today are suckers? How many elections did the GOP lose because of the harsh coverage by Pravda & Izvestia?
   58. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:13 PM (#5533941)
Ray - I have to wonder if you'd feel the same way about the EC if Rs had won the popular vote, but lost the EC, twice in the past 5 elections - after it had happened twice in the previous 200 years.


No, I wouldn't. Why would any sane person feel that way? The rules were established at the outset. The EC is what controls, not the fake-newsy "popular vote," since there is no actual popular vote in the way people using that term mean. Yes, they counted all of the votes and summed it up into a so-called "popular vote." No, this isn't a true popular vote count since the election was not casted that way.

It would be like me whining that the Red Sox lost to the Yankees even though the Red Sox got more hits. It's whining, totally and utterly, and of the bizarre and insane variety given that the whining relates to an election contest that nobody - except perhaps Hillary - thought they were having. Trump did not compete for the popular vote; he competed for the EC.
   59. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:14 PM (#5533942)
People who congenitally lie about real things tend not to tell the truth about hypotheticals, but YMMV.


It is categorically impossible for a hypothetical to be determined to be either true or false. That's what makes it hypothetical in the first place.
   60. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:14 PM (#5533943)
Hey, if HRC gets the election overturned, does Bivens get his money back? ;)

ETA: Lest Ray think I'm serious, HRC is batshit crazy, but feel free to keep obsessing over her, it's entertaining!


The Daily News story I quoted was front page. So clearly I can't be the only one obsessing.

I see why you don't want to obsess over her; she's proving more and more each day that she belonged nowhere near the White House. Consequently she reveals that your judgment was terrible for pretending otherwise.
   61. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:18 PM (#5533945)
I see why you don't want to obsess over her; she's proving more and more each day that she belonged nowhere near the White House. Consequently she reveals that your judgment was terrible for pretending otherwise.

Whereas every minute Donald Trump is proving how Presidential he is, and how much that sort of things matters to you.
   62. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:18 PM (#5533946)
What was P. T. Barnum saying?

That you're a junky for any horse #### NYT prints.

Its website was the 12th-most-cited by the fake-news consumers and purveyors — ahead of The New York Times and The Washington Post but behind Breitbart and Infowars.

If fake-news purveyors cite NYT, doesn't guilt-by-association make NYT "fake news"?

Without looking, name the NATO airbase.
   63. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:21 PM (#5533948)
. It's from him that I learned that the Confederacy was a bunch of traitors who started the war so they could own slaves

Sheer genius!
   64. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:22 PM (#5533949)
Anselm defined God as "that than which nothing greater can be thought", and argued that this being must exist in the mind, even in the mind of the person who denies the existence of God. He suggested that, if the greatest possible being exists in the mind, it must also exist in reality. If it only exists in the mind, then an even greater being must be possible—one which exists both in the mind and in reality. Therefore, this greatest possible being must exist in reality.


*puts down bong*
   65. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:24 PM (#5533951)
Consequently she reveals that your judgment was terrible for pretending otherwise.
Again, Ray, the world is not binary. Just because I see Trump for the charlatan he is doesn't mean I have anything to do with HRC.

Don't like her, never did, didn't vote for her, and approximately six posts upstream described her as "batshit". Kindly stop with the lying misrepresentation.
   66. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:25 PM (#5533952)
I'm good if we never talk about HRC again.
   67. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:30 PM (#5533953)
I am sure they were all taught about how Great it was that the Union went easy on the defeated Southerners (well, the white ones anyway). This is what I was taught in high school in 1985. In San Francisco.

Damned good thing Frisco has ditched history for ethnic studies then.
   68. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:30 PM (#5533954)
Our median SAT score went from 1020 in 1980 to over 1255 a few years ago.
They rescaled the SAT in between those dates, dumbing it down for millennials.
   69. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:37 PM (#5533957)
I'm good if we never talk about HRC again.
I couldn't care less if HRC is mocked; what I object to is A) HRC's mockworthiness being used to excuse Trump's behavior, and B) the ongoing implications that HRC somehow represents or speaks for any individuals here. To wit:

Poster X: Trump did something else stupid today.
Trumpkin: Your opinion is ridiculous because HRC.

   70. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:37 PM (#5533958)
No, I wouldn't. Why would any sane person feel that way? The rules were established at the outset
Strangely, you didn't feel that way before the convention in Cleveland, when you insisted that any result other than a Trump nomination was unacceptable, even if he didn't have enough delegates under the established rules.
   71. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:38 PM (#5533959)
I'm good if we never talk about HRC again.

Ray would curl up and collapse into a black hole, destroying the solar system.
   72. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:39 PM (#5533960)
They rescaled the SAT in between those dates, dumbing it down for millennials.


To be fair, it's been re-scaled a bunch of times, so it's not just a millennial thing.
   73. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:46 PM (#5533961)
. . . the ongoing implications that HRC somehow represents or speaks for any individuals here.

She is the most recent presidential nominee of the Democratic Party, and up until the moment she lost the election, many here defended her every move, although perhaps not Pep Tech. However, his foresight on that seems like an insufficient reason for others to stop mocking Hillary and those who turned a blind eye to her flaws.
   74. JJ1986 Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:49 PM (#5533962)
Isn't the SAT out of 2400 now? It was when my younger brother took it. Or did they change it back?
   75. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:53 PM (#5533964)
Clapper, kindly point to where I said "please stop mocking Hillary" or "turn a blind eye to her flaws". Oh, right, you can't. Have at her; heck, Ray even thinks she's starting to look hot.

HRC is certainly the most recent standard bearer of the Dems, and if you want to say that the "Dems have no standing to criticize Trump because their choice was worse", that's fine. But if I independently conclude that Trump is an Oompa Loompa, please find an argument other than "HRC" to refute me. Is all I'm asking here.



   76. PepTech Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:54 PM (#5533965)
JJ1986, they changed it back. It's 1600 again.
   77. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:54 PM (#5533966)
They rescaled the SAT in between those dates, dumbing it down for millennials.

Doesn't that rescaling account only for ~ 35 points on the SAT? Seems plausible that the University of Texas could have become more selective given the considerable population growth in that interval, not to mention the increased budget.
   78. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:55 PM (#5533968)

The glee here over Pelosi & Schumer negotiating with Trump may have been premature - Pelosi Shouted Down By Activists Over DACA Deal With Trump

Feinstein and Pelosi are going to be driven from office as Nazi collaborators. Or just old white women out of touch with their constituency.
   79. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2017 at 06:57 PM (#5533969)
The glee here over Pelosi & Schumer negotiating with Trump may have been premature

"Glee"? If there was any glee it was from SBB - "TRIANGULATION LIKE SOMEONE SAID. LIKE WHO SAID? LIKE I SAID, BITCHES!" Seriously, talk to him.

What glee there was on the left was from people laughing because he would just do something different ten minutes later.
   80. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:14 PM (#5533976)
What was P. T. Barnum saying?

That those suggesting there were otherwise persuadable Hillary voters who didn't vote for her because of Russia Today are suckers? How many elections did the GOP lose because of the harsh coverage by Pravda & Izvestia?


Obviously no single factor caused Hillary to lose the electoral college volte, but in the heyday of Pravda and Izvestia, Russian propaganda was read almost exclusively over here by the CIA and a handful of domestic Communists who could read Russian, and the FBI had lists of all their subscribers. You could listen to Radio Moscow's English language broadcasts, but only via shortwave, and even then only when their dim signal could get through.

By contrast, RT's fake news efforts are available to just about any cable TV viewer, and as the Times article notes, among those most addicted to the genre its website was the 12th most cited. Once again, your attempt at some kind of equivalence doesn't pass even a smell test of reality.
   81. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:16 PM (#5533978)
Mouse and Zonk were the OTP glee clubbers over GOP disunity. Though to be fair, the news serves as entertainment here more often as not.
   82. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:17 PM (#5533979)
"Glee"? If there was any glee it was from SBB - "TRIANGULATION LIKE SOMEONE SAID. LIKE WHO SAID? LIKE I SAID, #######!" Seriously, talk to him.

Go back and read the thread, Lassus.
   83. PreservedFish Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:20 PM (#5533981)
Nobody thinks that they should have eliminated the Electoral College on November 9, that would obviously be bull ####. But the current system, where a vote in Wyoming is worth more than a vote in California, and where some states split the vote and other do not, and such, is bizarre. I wouldn't mind reform, and a pure popular vote would seem to be the simplest solution.

I do wonder how it would change election year politics. Could be for the worse. There's something nice about incentivizing our candidates to meet in the middle and battle over the purple states.
   84. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:23 PM (#5533985)
By contrast, RT's fake news efforts are available to just about any cable TV viewer, and as the Times article notes, among those most addicted to the genre its website was the 12th most cited. Once again, your attempt at some kind of equivalence doesn't pass even a smell test of reality.

C'mon, no one who watches RT for its anti-Hillary take - and I know of no such persons - was ever a Hillary persuadable voter. You're talking about a few people who may cast a wide net that includes everything anti-Hillary. Hillary Clinton had a huge money advantage (~$500M) and the overwhelming support of the mass media, and still lost! And you're whining about Russia Today?
   85. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:24 PM (#5533986)
"WHAT ABOUT KENYA?!?!?!?!" makes "You forgot Poland" sound like a collaboration between J.P. Sartre and A. F. Einstein.

Kenya!

Kenya!

She's "delving into" Kenya!

She's not quite done yet, but she's delving.

Into Kenya.
   86. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:28 PM (#5533987)
But the current system, where a vote in Wyoming is worth more than a vote in California

Kinda. California votes are irrelevant now because they are a Dem lock. But I wouldn't be surprised if no candidate ever visited Wyoming. It might as well not count.
   87. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:29 PM (#5533989)
The EC is not getting ditched for the same reason the Senate's not being disbanded.

Plus it's right there in our name.
   88. For the Turnstiles (andeux) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:31 PM (#5533994)
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
   89. TDF, FCL Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:32 PM (#5533995)
The EC is, by definition, an anachronism.
1. something or someone that is not in its correct historical or chronological time, especially a thing or person that belongs to an earlier time
It exists not because the Founders thought it was a great way to elect the POTUS, but because they didn't trust that us rubes were smart enough.
   90. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:33 PM (#5533998)
It saved us from a president who thinks there's a chance the election can be re-run because of precedent issued by the Supreme Court of Kenya.

That's no anachronism, that's genius.
   91. PreservedFish Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:38 PM (#5534002)

Kinda. California votes are irrelevant now because they are a Dem lock. But I wouldn't be surprised if no candidate ever visited Wyoming. It might as well not count.


I wasn't referring to where candidates concentrate their visits, but rather the actual value of a vote, the ratio of EC points to population. It is literally unfair.
   92. TDF, FCL Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:38 PM (#5534003)
The EC is not getting ditched for the same reason the Senate's not being disbanded.
Not true. The Senate literally cannot be disbanded, unless the entire Constitution is thrown out; the EC can be changed or gotten rid of through the regular amendment process.
   93. Omineca Greg Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:39 PM (#5534005)
But the current system, where a vote in Wyoming is worth more than a vote in California...

Yeah, same thing here. Those ############# Prince Edward Islanders have had it too good for too long...

And their dirt is isn't even red, like I was promised.

They're full of it, they've been taking and taking since 1873. I'm sick of them.
   94. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:40 PM (#5534009)
It exists not because the Founders thought it was a great way to elect the POTUS, but because they didn't trust that us rubes were smart enough
And they were right.

Unfortunately, the rubes aren't even smart enough to know that they're not smart enough.
   95. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:42 PM (#5534011)
Not true. The Senate literally cannot be disbanded, unless the entire Constitution is thrown out;
Not actually; the provision could be changed if the states unanimously consented.
   96. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:45 PM (#5534012)
the regular amendment process.

Which takes 2/3rds of the Senate to propose and 3/4ths of the states to ratify.

Why would less populous states vote to make themselves less politically relevant?
   97. TDF, FCL Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:47 PM (#5534015)
Not actually; the provision could be changed if the states unanimously consented.
From what I've read, that's just an opinion - others opine that "everyone has no suffrage" isn't the same as "equal suffrage".
   98. TDF, FCL Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:51 PM (#5534018)
the regular amendment process.

Which takes 2/3rds of the Senate to propose and 3/4ths of the states to ratify.

Why would less populous states vote to make themselves less politically relevant?
It is highly improbable that I'm going to mail you a check for $1000 just because I'm a nice guy; that doesn't make it impossible.

Even if DMN's opinion is right - that the states could disband the Senate - it still would take 100% vs. 75% of them to do it, which is still more difficult.
   99. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:53 PM (#5534020)
Before the page ends, let me suggest going back and re-reading events of July 2016 in Turkey and the resulting fallout, in both NYT and the foreign press.

Pay particular attention to Germany and Incirlik.
   100. BDC Posted: September 18, 2017 at 08:05 PM (#5534025)
Pancake Flop
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