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Monday, September 18, 2017

OTP 18 September 2017: Ex-Baseball Star Darryl Strawberry Criticizes Jemele Hill, Praises POTUS: Trump is ‘A Great Man’

“I think no one should call anyone anything. President Trump, he’s a great man to me. He was always gracious to me. I really love him, his family, I was on his show and he’s always been kind to me… I’ve known him quite well and every time I’ve seen him and been around him he’s always been so gracious with me and I’m always grateful for that.”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:53 AM | 1552 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: daryl strawberry, politics

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   1001. Srul Itza Posted: September 21, 2017 at 07:20 PM (#5536231)
Yes but your mother sucks dwarf cocks.


How could you tell, unless you'd seen the dwarf?
   1002. TDF, FCL Posted: September 21, 2017 at 07:20 PM (#5536232)
So according to TDF's logic:

A white actor playing a racist in a movie can never use the n-word.

A white professor trying to educate about the subject can never use the n-word.

A white parent trying to teach his or her children about the subject can never use the n-word.

A...... etc etc etc.

I've never used the n-word, not in any context. But there are legitimate, non-racist contexts in which a white person can use the word, mainly for discussion and education purposes. Or acting in a movie. Or narrating a book. Etc.
That's not what I'm saying, and you know it.

And none of these are close to a bunch of white sorority girls jumping around singing a song, completely ignoring the context of the word and its history.
   1003. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 21, 2017 at 07:21 PM (#5536233)
Yes but your mother sucks dwarf cocks.

Well yes, she does complain a lot that yours is so tiny.
   1004. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 21, 2017 at 07:21 PM (#5536234)
Someone hadn't played enough Witcher. Sad.
   1005. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 21, 2017 at 07:27 PM (#5536236)
And none of these are close to a bunch of white sorority girls jumping around


"Sorority girls" gives away your game. It's not that no white people can sing along, it's that sorority chicks can't sing along.

No great surprise. This is just another opportunity to try to take "privileged" sororities down a peg. A pure power play. As many of these incidents are.

No one can take such a thing seriously. Fortunately, the effort was apparently a complete whiff.
   1006. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 21, 2017 at 07:28 PM (#5536237)
I suppose this is technically true - John Kerry Running For President In 2020 Wouldn't Be The Craziest Thing. Only 73, younger than Biden or Sanders!
   1007. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 21, 2017 at 07:52 PM (#5536239)
Jason Sokol's There Goes My Everything: White Southerners in the Age of Civil Rights, 1945-1975 should be right up your alley. He might have even interviewed some people you know.

My best friend in college, Harry Boyte, whose father was the only white member of King's SCLC Executive Committee, actually befriended the (Catholic!) head of the St. Augustine (Fla.) KKK during the Atlantic Ocean "wade-ins" there in 1964 that were met with violence by the KKK and other whites. He was from the South himself, and although he was a dedicated civil rights worker, he had an uncanny way of relating to (at least some) counter-demonstrators who initially were threatening to kill him and worse. I've befriended many a racist, but never an actual Klansman.


I figured you might have a suggestion. Thanks


I was serious about the suggestion. I think you'd find a lot in that book to interest you.

What I found both perplexing and fascinating at the time, when I was a child, then a teen and a young adult, was the way people could be viciously racist (in word more than deed—I don’t know of anyone who carried out any lynchings or even did any terrorizing)--and also be just regular people otherwise, petty and looking out for themselves and their own, yes, but kind, generous, and self-sacrificing, too.

People aren't always one dimensional, even if some of them can sure as hell seem like it.

To my mind, I had to figure out a way to incorporate that racism into the run of the mill normality that Life and Man. Many, of course, see racism as virulent pathology (but not racial pride, of some races and ethnic groups, anyway), or at least aberrantly inconsistent.

I can't imagine that real racial pride has anything to do with racial prejudice. 99% of the "racial pride" one usually finds among minority groups is based on seeing group members achieve goals that the larger society for a long time told them them were incapable of achieving, or were effectively prevented from achieving. Unlike white racism, it doesn't have anything to do with any sense of racial superiority.**

Remember Jem in To Kill A Mockingbird? He was confused by a teacher’s outraged reaction to the trial of Tom Robinson and Negroes in general (they need to be kept in their place) while, he remembers, she was genuinely also outraged by the way Hitler was treating the Jews in Germany. Yes, if you like, what I doing can be seen as justifying racism in a sense. I’m not sure how to get around that except by lying to myself. Prominent in doing that would be white hatting/black hatting it, and that would not serve to ever get us out of merry-go-round of blame and guilt and resentment. Any suggestions how to resolve that dilemma?

Like all of us, Morty, you're a work in progress. You drive me nuts with some of your comments, but underneath it all I don't get the feeling you're doing anything more than expressing those conflicted feelings out in the open. I might advise you to read a lot of classic black literature (DuBois; Langston Hughes [his short stories in particular]; Albert Murray; Stanley Crouch; etc.) and try to put yourself inside the authors' skin, but it wouldn't surprise me greatly if you've already spent a fair amount of time doing that, and anyway it's not a magic formula.

** That's not to say that there aren't any black racists who are more or less the Bizarro World counterparts of white racists. Nation of Islam adherents who take their doctrine as literally as white racists who cite Bible verses as justification for their bigotry are just as pathetic as anyone.
   1008. BDC Posted: September 21, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5536246)
The Nearness of You (Carmichael/Washington)

Ah, yes, that's a gorgeous song too, thanks for finding that reference :)
   1009. Greg K Posted: September 21, 2017 at 08:18 PM (#5536247)
-He wants to close the Seven Oaks Roman Letter Clubs
-That's good, isn't it? Everyone was against them.
- No.
- Come on. There's no justification for those places. They're exclusive and elitist.
-The point that Violet makes is that they can't be elitist. They're morons.
-Yeah, elitist morons.
-You'll grant they're morons, then. That's a handicap. Such people should be helped, not hounded and persecuted.
- Persecuted?
- Yes, losing the roof over your head? That's the worst thing that can happen.

   1010. zenbitz Posted: September 21, 2017 at 08:42 PM (#5536264)
Inflection point for rap as popular mainstream music, as opposed to "urban contemporary" has got to be when the Beastie Boys released License to Ill in 1987.

Something different about those boys... Can't quite put my finger on it...
   1011. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 21, 2017 at 08:43 PM (#5536266)
In 1st Amendment news, Court Rejects Feminist Majority Foundation's Demand That Public University Block Yik-Yak. That requests seems akin to demanding the university block cell phone service if some don't like the calls or texts they receive, or the material circulated about them.
   1012. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 21, 2017 at 08:55 PM (#5536269)
The question, for the point I was making earlier today, was not when rap became a cross-over hit producing genre, but rather when hip hop and the form's stylings utterly subsumed pop music itself. The question was not when did a rap act "cross over," but rather "when did the Taylor Swifts of the world realize they needed to sample bass heavy dance lines in order to compete on the charts?"
   1013. Omineca Greg Posted: September 21, 2017 at 08:55 PM (#5536270)
Ah, yes, that's a gorgeous song too...


That was great. I like this one.

Not Rod Stewart OR William Riker.

EDIT. I'm told my link is hooped. Works for me...that's the worst kind of bad link. The url is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMs2TVFI1LQ.

I'll try another one in a different post.
   1014. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 21, 2017 at 08:57 PM (#5536272)
The Nearness of You (Carmichael/Washington)


Ah, yes, that's a gorgeous song too, thanks for finding that reference :)

Mel Torme is one of the best, but there are too many great (and different) versions of that song to count. This particular rendition by Sarah Vaughan is my favorite.
   1015. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 21, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5536273)
That was great. I like this one.

That MJQ link doesn't work, Greg.
   1016. Omineca Greg Posted: September 21, 2017 at 09:05 PM (#5536277)
How 'bout this one?
   1017. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 21, 2017 at 09:11 PM (#5536281)
And back to earth (while there's still time left), I'm wondering what Trump will now do to top this one:

North Korean leader on Trump: ‘I will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged U.S. dotard with fire’

So what other Elton John records does Trump have lying around in his vast arsenal? Surely this cries out for at least a dozen retaliatory tweets!

Seriously, have any two other cartoon "leaders" ever been better suited for one another?
   1018. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 21, 2017 at 09:12 PM (#5536282)
Inflection point for rap as popular mainstream music, as opposed to "urban contemporary" has got to be when the Beastie Boys released License to Ill in 1987


The Beastie Boys "License to Ill" was considered a stupid novelty album for partying frat boys. MC Hammer's "Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em" was the album that gave rap mainstream appeal through production values and bright, catchy synth-heavy tracks.
   1019. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 21, 2017 at 09:13 PM (#5536283)
How 'bout this one?

Oh, Jesus, Ben Webster. You hooked me with that one on the first note.
   1020. simon bedford Posted: September 21, 2017 at 09:24 PM (#5536285)
Run Dmcs 'raising hell' went to number 4 and had a huge hit with the aerosmith duet, the band even signed a massive ad deal with adidas, I am not sure you could get more mainstream than that.
Hammer was a horrible sell out but I am not sure thats the moment it went "mainstream' just because it had more sales.
   1021. greenback is not cosmopolitan Posted: September 21, 2017 at 09:40 PM (#5536298)
Speaking of sellouts, this deal between Wisconsin and Foxconn sounds like racketeering. How can this be legal?

The legislation would exempt the Foxconn project from a state environmental impact statement and from some state rules to protect wetlands and waterways. That has raised the possibility that environmental groups may sue over the law and project in the near future.

To head off delays from that potential litigation, GOP lawmakers and Walker added special requirements on the courts system for handling any Foxconn lawsuits.

First, the legislation would expedite appeals of Foxconn-related lawsuits, creating a path that would likely get any case more quickly to the state Supreme Court, where conservatives have a solid majority.

Second, the measure requires higher courts to take appeals of a trial court order in a Foxconn case even if the order is not final. In general, appellate courts have to take appeals of the final judgments and orders made by trial courts but get to decide whether to take appeals of preliminary orders.

Finally, the trial court rulings in that litigation would be automatically stayed until the higher court decided what to do.
   1022. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 21, 2017 at 09:53 PM (#5536315)

Something different about those boys... Can't quite put my finger on it...

David Duke wants to subscribe to your newsletter.
   1023. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 21, 2017 at 09:57 PM (#5536320)
Is there anything sillier than a bunch of old white guys on the internet playing race police?
   1024. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: September 21, 2017 at 10:00 PM (#5536324)
Haven't seen the show*, but based on comments and reviews, I thought the two episodes in question were supposed to be very, very good:


Many Rick and Morty fans already know the brilliant Adult Swim animated comedy shook up its writers’ room boys club for the current third season, and now have a gender-balanced writing staff. But while this summer’s episodes have received the usual raves from critics and most fans, there has also been some ugly online backlash against the show’s newest team members. The second and third episodes of the season (the Mad Max trope-busting spoof “Rickmancing the Stone” and the gleefully bonkers “Pickle Rick”) were credited to two of the show’s female writers (Jane Becker and Jessica Gao), who were then harassed on Twitter and even had their personal information put online (a.k.a. doxxed).

We spoke to executive producer Dan Harmon (who co-created the show along with Justin Roiland) about what went down.

“I’m on a Twitter sabbatical, so the last thing I saw about that was [the Reddit thread detailing the harassment], and I’ve seen the tweets they’ve sent to the female writer,” Harmon says. “I was familiar going into the third season, having talked to Felicia Day, that any high-profile women get doxxed, they get harassed, they get threatened, they get slandered. And part of it is a testosterone-based subculture patting themselves on the back for trolling these women. Because to the extent that you get can get a girl to shriek about a frog you’ve proven girls are girly and there’s no crime in assaulting her with a frog because it’s all in the name of proving something. I think it’s all disgusting.”

Continues Harmon: “These knobs, that want to protect the content they think they own — and somehow combine that with their need to be proud of something they have, which is often only their race or gender. It’s offensive to me as someone who was born male and white, and still works way harder than them, that there’s some white male [fan out there] trying to further some creepy agenda by ‘protecting’ my work. I’ve made no bones about the fact that I loathe these people. It f—ing sucks. And the only thing I can say is if you’re lucky enough to make a show that is really good that people like, that means some bad people are going to like it too. You can’t just insist that everybody who watches your show get their head on straight … And I’m speaking for myself — I don’t want the show to have a political stance. But at the same time, individually, these [harassers] aren’t politicians and don’t represent politics. They represent some #### that I probably believed when I was 15.”


EW

Obviously, this must really be about ethics in online entertainment journalism ...

[edit] *Well, I'm watching Rickmancing the Stone on YouTube right now and it's been pretty funny so far ...
   1025. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 01:48 AM (#5536558)
That's not what I'm saying, and you know it.


That is what you're saying. Now, I'm happy to accept a clarification, but that was indeed you seemed to be saying.

And none of these are close to a bunch of white sorority girls jumping around singing a song, completely ignoring the context of the word and its history.


What's wrong with you? They're singing a song that was written and performed by a black artist and that was commercially marketed to them -- and they're enjoying themselves. I don't see the problem.
   1026. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 02:28 AM (#5536564)
Catching up after a day of praying for all of your souls:
Webster's defines totalitarian as "relating to a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state."

By that standard, the Jim Crow South wasn't strictly totalitarian, since the subservience was "only" to customs and mores that were enforced and reinforced by law. But whenever there was a breach in the code, you can be sure that the state would deal with it by any means necessary, both legal or extra-legal if necessary. In reality, for black people it was a distinction without all that much of a difference,.
No, it's not even a little bit right. (Maybe if one went for authoritarian, but not totalitarian.) The problem isn't just that the subservience was (sometimes) to customs and mores rather than the state. The problem is that subservience and totalitarianism aren't the same thing. Blacks in the Jim Crow South had their options restricted. (So, of course, did blacks in the north, in different ways.). But restrictions and totalitarianism are very different things. (The word "total" in "totalitarian" ought to be a clue.). As long as blacks in the JCS "knew their place," they were generally free to live their lives. Being forced to ride in the back of the bus is not the same as needing to prove one had a justification to ride a bus before being allowed to ride it. (Which is why apartheid isn't a good analogy either.)
   1027. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 02:46 AM (#5536565)
Not even Trump's (sane) critics have accused him of being an "outright white supremacist."

There's literally no way to read Trump's history and positions regarding black people as anything other than white supremacy.
There's literally no way to read it as white supremacy. This is of a piece with the left trying to redefine boorishness as "misogyny." As an initial matter, white supremacy is an ideology, and Trump doesn't have any ideology because that word literally refers to a system of ideas, and Trump doesn't have any well-formed ideas. But even pretending that his various whims and mental flatulence and such add up to an ideology, the phrase 'white supremacy' wouldn't even remotely capture his. ('Trump supremacy,' maybe.) Trump is a casual bigot, full of unexamined (like every other 'thought' of his) racial prejudices. He's not motivated by any larger race-based agenda.

Words have meaning, and when we define deviancy down, it just debases the language. The people marching in Charlottesville were actual white supremacists. People who merely harbor negative views of minorities are not white supremacists. You'd think you people would have learned something from the failure of the Clinton campaign's Deplorables strategy. When you relabel disapproved ideas or conduct as the ultimate evil, you don't convince people that those disapproved ideas really are the ultimate evil; you convince people that you aren't a serious person with serious ideas. (Not that anyone ever thought that of you personally, but...)

EDIT: To put this in terms you lefties might understand: you guys routinely argue that the term "anti-semitism" is misused to encompass any criticism of Israel, and you argue that doing so dilutes true accusations of anti-semitism. It's the same principle.


He doesn't have to be. Every indication from his past and present shows him to believe, fully and without doubt, that black people can not be fully formed members of American society.
No indication of his shows any such thing. If you can't tell the difference between Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln, you're too stupid to live. Not that we didn't know that about you.
   1028. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:02 AM (#5536567)
Daily Mail. Did the girls do anything wrong here? Yes or no?

This is easy. Yes.

Now, is it "close down the sorority" or "expel them from school" wrong? No. It's more "sit them all down and make sure they realize what they did" wrong.

It's one of the two worst things you can call someone
Okay, but according to the excerpt posted (like Ray, I don't care enough to read beyond that), they didn't call anyone that.


I realize you don't get this, because I've brought it up any number of times over the years in response to your lily-white, upper-class, elitist crap, but you don't get to decide what offends someone else.
If you mean in a descriptive sense, sure. If someone says, "That offends me," I can't say, "No, it doesn't."¹ But (and I realize you don't get this) just because someone is offended doesn't make him right. If you're offended about something stupid, that makes you stupid, not the person who did the thing that caused you to be offended. There is a difference between "I am offended" and "This is offensive."


¹Well, I can decide whether the person is being sincere or not. Sometimes, it's obvious that the outrage is feigned for political purposes. Such as wrt the Google guy who was fired.
   1029. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:23 AM (#5536569)
And this is White Boy Ray deciding what should or shouldn't offend blacks. Again.
Person deciding what should or shouldn't offend people, I think you meant. "Blacks" are not a special class of people who are entitled to unchallenged opinions.


While "irritate" isn't the same as "offend", if someone says s omething that really offends you, you should speak up.
No. You should stop and think, "Is it rational and reasonable that I am offended?" Unless the answer is yes, you should ignore it.
   1030. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:32 AM (#5536571)
Y'all idiots arguing over rap lyrics while the Koch brothers destroy healthcare
Not sure what the Koch brothers have to do with this, but you're apparently another liberal who doesn't know the difference between health insurance and health care.
   1031. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:44 AM (#5536572)
Speaking of sellouts, this deal between Wisconsin and Foxconn sounds like racketeering.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
   1032. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:48 AM (#5536573)
¹Well, I can decide whether the person is being sincere or not. Sometimes, it's obvious that the outrage is feigned for political purposes. Such as wrt the Google guy who was fired.

Out of curiosity, do you think the outrage over what he wrote was feigned? Or the outrage over the fact that he was fired over what he wrote was feigned? Or perhaps both?
   1033. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:07 AM (#5536576)
Out of curiosity, do you think the outrage over what he wrote was feigned?
I think people were genuinely upset by the policy implications of what he was saying, and therefore pretended to be outraged by the rest of what he was saying so that they could ignore those policy implications. The fact that they so blatantly lied about what he had actually said is evidence of the fact that their outrage was feigned.
   1034. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 06:38 AM (#5536582)
If you can't tell the difference between Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln, you're too stupid to live.


Well that's easy, one was a president who thought the negro entirely inferior to the white man, and the other...wait, this is harder than I thought.
   1035. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 07:50 AM (#5536588)
Catching up after a day of praying for all of your souls:

Forget souls, you need to pray for functioning brains. But once philosophy's heaved overboard...
   1036. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:06 AM (#5536591)
Is there anything sillier than a bunch of old white guys on the internet playing race police?


Literally everything you've ever vomited forth into the world.
   1037. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:08 AM (#5536593)
There is a difference between "I am offended" and "This is offensive."


The only notable difference is that the first statement acknowledges the "I" that is offended, while the second does not. I'm not sure if David is presenting the second as a case where what is "offensive" is a part of the natural world, but of course, it is not. The offense lies in the perceptions of the reader.
   1038. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:09 AM (#5536594)
Catching up after a day of praying for all of your souls:


Tell Abusive Sky Fairy Dad we all said sorry and hope he stops beating us.
   1039. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:22 AM (#5536601)
I've got quite the foul-mouthed fan club here. As soon as I come across a herd of swine...
   1040. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:46 AM (#5536608)
At the Movies

I put Soderbergh and Aronofsky on hold for a week and figured I'd catch a critically well received summer flick on the season's last day... and made the mistake of picking both reboot AND sequel in Planet of the Apes.

At best, the idea might work as a Saturday morning cartoon for the tykes (is that still a thing?), but even then it'd be hare-brained. My main complaint is that neither ape nor human displayed evidence of having been at the War in the title. The monkeys were portrayed as peace-loving simians, and the humans as some kind of white supremacist extermination squad. I gave up when the mute girl* walked in and out of the concentration camp like it was a field of daisies.

Should have just watched the original classic again. Instead, I ditched it for Chris Nolan's overpraised Dunkirk: while hardly the greatest war movie or anything close, it well captured the helpless/hopelessness of warfare. I particularly liked the ending of the returning troops on the train. How could ypu ever talk about your experiences, especially when they are immediately swallowed up in the mythologies of war?

* the mute girl meets mutated beast story of the year -- hopefully the movie of the year -- will be Guillermo del Toro's The Shape of Water. Plus I'd watch Michael Shannon in another bad Werner Herzog flick without batting an eye.

   1041. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:48 AM (#5536609)
Added bonus: both of these movies amounted to private screenings, as anybody who wanted to see them evidently has already.
   1042. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:49 AM (#5536610)
I don't see the problem.


The problem is sororities. Leftists have had bugs up their asses about fraternities and sororities for decades. "Havens of privilege," "non-inclusive," predominantly white people, etc., etc.

That's why he was all on about "white sorority girls jumping around."
   1043. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:52 AM (#5536612)
Webster's defines totalitarian as "relating to a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state."

By that standard, the Jim Crow South wasn't strictly totalitarian, since the subservience was "only" to customs and mores that were enforced and reinforced by law. But whenever there was a breach in the code, you can be sure that the state would deal with it by any means necessary, both legal or extra-legal if necessary. In reality, for black people it was a distinction without all that much of a difference,.


No, it's not even a little bit right. (Maybe if one went for authoritarian, but not totalitarian.) The problem isn't just that the subservience was (sometimes) to customs and mores rather than the state. The problem is that subservience and totalitarianism aren't the same thing. Blacks in the Jim Crow South had their options restricted. (So, of course, did blacks in the north, in different ways.). But restrictions and totalitarianism are very different things. (The word "total" in "totalitarian" ought to be a clue.). As long as blacks in the JCS "knew their place," they were generally free to live their lives. Being forced to ride in the back of the bus is not the same as needing to prove one had a justification to ride a bus before being allowed to ride it. (Which is why apartheid isn't a good analogy either.)


Again, I'm not equating the South of the Jim Crow era with Soviet or Nazi style totalitarianism, but you're ignoring the many similarities.

As long as blacks in the JCS "knew their place," they were generally free to live their lives.

That's as meaningless a statement as would be "As long as Soviet citizens under Stalin didn't oppose him, they were generally allowed to live."

Of course both of those statements would not only be untrue in many cases (innocent blacks were often lynched; Soviet peasants were stripped of their land regardless of their political preferences), but more to the point, it trivializes the meaning of "free to live their lives".

If a Communist state taxed your earnings at 100% and redistributed it along classic Communist lines,** but otherwise left you alone, and the only reason it remained in power was that it was continually re-elected by Rooseveltian margins, clearly it wouldn't be "totalitarian" by any normal definition. But would you feel you were "free to live" your life? Wouldn't it seem to you as if your life had been 100% stolen from you by the state?

Again, the point isn't that being born black in a sharecropper's shack in Alabama in 1920 was an identical experience to being born in Russia in 1917, it's that in both cases your life choices were almost 100% dictated, by the state in the case of the USSR, and by a combination of the state and racial mores in the case of Alabama. A "good nigger" might live a relatively peaceful life in Alabama, and a docile Soviet citizen might live his life relatively unscathed by the secret police, but neither of those cases would remotely address the underlying realities of those two alleged civilizations.

As for the apartheid comparison, while there was a difference between Soweto and the generic black ghetto in terms of exactly how they came into being, and while the hardships of Soweto were exacerbated by its geographical isolation, other than that the life of a black person in South Africa and a black person in Mississippi were scarcely any different in any substantive way.

** From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs
   1044. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:54 AM (#5536614)
"As long as Soviet citizens under Stalin didn't oppose him, they were generally allowed to live."


Except they weren't. The difference was so pronounced that black people in the Jim Crow South politically agitated for their complete equality and freedom and were permitted to do so.(*) Soviet citizens under Stalin had no such political freedoms, or anything close.

It's utterly bizarre, though not surprising, that you're unable to discern this straightforward distinction.

(*) Occasionally oppressed and interfered with, often completely unjustly, to be sure -- but big picture, entirely true.
   1045. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:00 AM (#5536616)
All the talk is in the Senate, but the House is not exactly a slam dunk - Passing Graham-Cassidy could be a disaster for vulnerable House Republicans in swing districts

Sen. Lindsey Graham said Wednesday that House Speaker Paul Ryan told him to his face, "If you pass it, we pass it." It's still not clear Senate Republicans will make it to 50, but even if they do, it's no done deal in the House either and, frankly, Ryan hasn't proven to be much of a vote counter. The biggest problem? The version of the GOP healthcare bill that cleared the House earlier this year did so by just four votes, and the Senate's current bill deals a major financial blow to states that house 45 districts represented by Republicans who are either considered vulnerable or being targeted by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. The Washington Post does the math:

That’s a total of 22 GOP-held seats currently rated as vulnerable by Cook Political Report that are in states that would lose billions in federal funding under Graham-Cassidy. Adding in the seats that the DCCC is targeting beyond those, and you get a total of 45 targets in these 11 states.

When the Republicans’ previous Obamacare repeal passed the House in May, 20 Republicans voted no, as the measure passed by just a four-vote margin, 217-213. Thus, if all those Republicans vote no on Cassidy-Graham, it would take only a shift of a handful of Republican yes votes to halt Cassidy-Graham, should it reach the House floor.



And of course remember pretty much every Health Care group (yes, David, Health Insurance is part of the Health Care System, even if it makes you sad) has come out against the bill. Basically no one is speaking up for it and the scare ads basically write themselves. The odds of the GOP holding the House is they pass it are pretty low. But as the Democrats showed over ACA if you want something, have the levers of power, and are willing to pay the political price then you can get it done.
   1046. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:02 AM (#5536617)

Andy: There are differences and similarities.

SBB: Andy is totally wrong, there are differences.
   1047. Greg K Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:03 AM (#5536618)
Added bonus: both of these movies amounted to private screenings, as anybody who wanted to see them evidently has already.

I saw The Trip to Spain last week. Still fun, but decidedly the least interesting trip.

But the audience started out as me and one other guy. At some point along the line the other guy had had enough and left, so I got to watch most of it privately. Very relaxing. I've long suspected that my enjoyment of Frances Ha was heavily influenced by the fact that I watched it in an empty theatre.
   1048. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:03 AM (#5536619)
(*) Occasionally oppressed and interfered with

- laughter -
   1049. BrianBrianson Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:08 AM (#5536622)
Well that's easy, one was a president who thought the negro entirely inferior to the white man, and the other...wait, this is harder than I thought.


Lincoln was extremely responsive to all his constituents. For instance, he grew that beard because a little girl wrote him a letter suggesting he do that. Do you think Trump would do that?
   1050. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:08 AM (#5536623)
SBB: Andy is totally wrong, there are differences.


The differences go directly to whether it was totalitarian, so yes, Andy is completely wrong.
   1051. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:10 AM (#5536624)
Andy: Nieporent is a woman.

Sane person: No, he isn't.

Andy: You're ignoring the many similarities. He's human, just like women, and I'm sure there are some women with the initials, "DMN."

Sane person: [slinks away]
   1052. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:11 AM (#5536628)
Andy: Nieporent is a woman.

Sane person: No, he isn't.

Andy: You're ignoring the many similarities. He's human, just like women, and I'm sure there are some women with the initials, DMN.

Sane person: [slinks away]


It is cute you have these little internal fantasies, but honestly there is no need to share them with the class.
   1053. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:11 AM (#5536630)
I watched it in an empty theatre.

Omly previous time I recall was watching Blue Valentine at its last showing.

Def a downer.
   1054. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:14 AM (#5536632)
Again, I'm not equating the South of the Jim Crow era with Soviet or Nazi style totalitarianism, but you're ignoring the many similarities.


The differences go directly to whether it was totalitarian, so yes, Andy is completely wrong.


Watch in awe as SBB misses the point. Again. On accident a normal poster would occasionally keep up with a given conversation (and might also remember I think the use of the word totalitarian was misplaced, despite some similarities), but alas this is not the case with the fearsome stretchy band warrior.
   1055. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:16 AM (#5536634)
Lincoln was extremely responsive to all his constituents. For instance, he grew that beard because a little girl wrote him a letter suggesting he do that.

Or all the vampires he killed.
   1056. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:23 AM (#5536640)
(and might also remember I think the use of the word totalitarian was misplaced, despite some similarities)


The similarities are superficial, and irrelevant to the topic under discussion. The Jim Crow South was really bad. It wasn't remotely totalitarian.

   1057. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:35 AM (#5536649)
Greg --

To get back to your question re: thr nytm piece on RT, specifically the "fake news" of a military coup, not only doesn't thr story mention the context of the attempted coup on Erdogan two weeks prior, it doesn't report that coup leaders used Incirlik to attack the government by air, nor Erdogan's hardline speech the very day of the "fake news", let alone the real concerns of the Germans that led thrm to withdraw from the base. Power was cut at Incirlik after the coup attempt for a lengthy period of time, which interfered with NATO air strikes in Syria.

The Sputnik/RT story may have been largely unsubstantiated reporting, but they didn't create a crisis out of whole cloth...

Which is true of the supposed influence campaign of Russia -- it's largely effective because the West is facing social and economic crises that are poorly covered, if at all, by the US press. Which overrelies on govt sources, unnmaed or otherwise, for most of its foreign coverage.

What the NYT piece did is write in-depth enough to piece together holes in thr narrative. For instance, it talks about US cold war propaganda campaigns funded through the Marshall plan... which is funding the source critiquing the Ircilik report!

Can people not understand that our government still runs very sophisticated propaganda and disinformation campaigns to this day, both home and abroad? Not that they have to try all that hard at home with the press constantly carrying their dirty water.

Finally, the story accurately posits that what the Russians are doing through the Western press is aboveboard and legit, in that they operate on thr same terrain as thr press as a whole, with the added difficulty of corraling information on the internet and social media.

The crisis in Western democracy is self-made, largely aided by our unquestioning faith in the good of technology. The world is full of hackers of non-Russian (non-govt) origin who have long breeched our computer systems, not excluding electronic voting machines.

Russia ain't the problem, Poindexter.
   1058. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:38 AM (#5536652)
Russia ain't the problem, Poindexter.


The problem? No single thing is the problem. Russia is, however, a problem. And a fairly serious one. Pretending it isn't, ignoring it, is just as bad as believing it is the only problem.
   1059. BDC Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:42 AM (#5536654)
black people in the Jim Crow South politically agitated for their complete equality and freedom and were permitted to do so.(*)

I'd have bet anything that that asterisk was going to lead to "Citation Needed" :-D
   1060. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:43 AM (#5536655)
Lincoln was extremely responsive to all his constituents. For instance, he grew that beard because a little girl wrote him a letter suggesting he do that. Do you think Trump would do that?


I don't think he has the testosterone.
   1061. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5536656)
Andy: There are differences and similarities.

SBB: Andy is totally wrong, there are differences.


Mellow Mouse: He reads the trolls so I don't have to.
   1062. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:46 AM (#5536657)
966

(when I'm not at the opera)


BDC, you an opera buff?

Keep an eye on a rising young soprano, Mary Evelyn Hangley.

https://www.maryevelynhangley.com

She's my niece.
   1063. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:49 AM (#5536658)
black people in the Jim Crow South politically agitated for their complete equality and freedom and were permitted to do so.(*)

I'd have bet anything that that asterisk was going to lead to "Citation Needed" :-D

Always glad to help. Here's a citation.

   1064. Greg K Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:51 AM (#5536659)
To get back to your question re: thr nytm piece on RT, specifically the "fake news" of a military coup, not only doesn't thr story mention the context of the attempted coup on Erdogan two weeks prior, it doesn't report that coup leaders used Incirlik to attack the government by air, nor Erdogan's hardline speech the very day of the "fake news", let alone the real concerns of the Germans that led thrm to withdraw from the base. Power was cut at Incirlik after the coup attempt for a lengthy period of time, which interfered with NATO air strikes in Syria.

I thought the New York Times piece you linked was from earlier this summer (ie. 12 months after the coup, not 2)? Though I might be confusing it with another article? The one I read in your link was about the German withdrawal from Incirlik, not about RT and fake news.

Did the New York Times claim that the coup was fake news perpetuated by RT? Or did RT claim the coup was Western-backed, and the Times said that was fake news? I feel like I missed an important element here.

I certainly agree that the US media in general does a pretty poor job of covering foreign news. Though I would guess that has as much to do with American media outlets not having much faith in their audiences to care about non-American stories as anything else.

For what it's worth - this is the article I had read.
   1065. BDC Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:52 AM (#5536660)
DMN on critics of Google Guy (#1033):

they so blatantly lied about what he had actually said is evidence of the fact that their outrage was feigned

I think there was some "I don't have to read it, I know what it says" on both left and right re: the Damore Manifesto. Damore is careful to argue that gender differences represent overlapping ranges, not yes/no binaries, and careful to argue that those differences should not occasion bias against individual women.

But he also lays out the usual dorm-room BS about how a prehistory of hunting the mighty mammoth while producing billions and billions of mighty sperm in the mighty sperm sack (*) mean that current gender inegalities "may" (he's that careful) be the natural result of immutable evolutionary differences, a result we tamper with at our peril. Which is (a) an evolutionary just-so story and (b) irrelevant to corporate policy in any case.

(*) I paraphrase here :)
   1066. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:55 AM (#5536661)
The Trump administration has had a ... rocky start in many ways, at least partly because of the administration staffing. It doesn't look to get any better any time soon.

Trump Aides Head for the Exits

“A fast-growing number of White House staffers are starting to look for the exits, even though the one-year mark of President Trump’s first term is still months away. Many who joined the administration in January did so with the explicit idea that they’d stay for at least a year, enough to credibly say they’d served,” Politico reports.

“But in the aftermath of a wave of abrupt, high-profile departures over the summer that culminated with former strategist Steve Bannon’s ouster in August, aides up and down the chain are reaching out to headhunters, lobbyists, and GOP operatives for help finding their next job.”
   1067. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:56 AM (#5536662)

The Beastie Boys "License to Ill" was considered a stupid novelty album for partying frat boys. MC Hammer's "Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em" was the album that gave rap mainstream appeal through production values and bright, catchy synth-heavy tracks.

It had been building for a few years, with Run DMC, LL Cool J, the Beastie Boys and Will Smith all helping to make rap more crossover and commercially viable, but 1989-1990 was probably the tipping point, with "Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em", "Mama Said Knock You Out", "To The Extreme" and "Stone Cold Rhymin'" (by Young MC) all being released in that time frame. That was also the year that "The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" premiered on t.v.

I'm not sure what the tipping point was for it going the other way, i.e. other genres of music incorporating hip hop elements. Maybe it was when Jay-Z / Linkin Park had their successful collaboration in 2004.
   1068. Ishmael Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:57 AM (#5536664)
That's as meaningless a statement as would be "As long as Soviet citizens under Stalin didn't oppose him, they were generally allowed to live."

Of course both of those statements would not only be untrue in many cases (innocent blacks were often lynched; Soviet peasants were stripped of their land regardless of their political preferences), but more to the point, it trivializes the meaning of "free to live their lives".

I remember noticing when I first read the latter the similarities of style and theme between Langston Hughes’ Let America Be America Again and Yevgeni Yevtushenko’s Babi Yar.

I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery’s scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek—
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.


And I myself, like one long soundless scream
Above the thousands of thousands interred,
I’m every old man executed here,
As I am every child murdered here.
   1069. BDC Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5536665)
Keep an eye on a rising young soprano, Mary Evelyn Hangley

Thanks, Charlie! I am not a buff so much as a developing fan (over the last 10 years or so) and now a regular subscriber here in Dallas and Ft. Worth. I hope your niece has a chance to sing here some day. I see she was in Oklahoma last summer at Glimmerglass with one of our local young stars, Vanessa Becerra.
   1070. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:02 AM (#5536666)
Keep an eye on a rising young soprano, Mary Evelyn Hangley.

She was at Glimmerglass this summer, Charlie. Could have seen her AND the HOF.

BDC doesn't need a Coke, he has AC.
   1071. Greg K Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:03 AM (#5536668)
On the topic of Turkey and fake news, I did have a student last year argue that Erdogan had engineered the coup attempt himself to create a pretext for his purges and constitutional reform. And I have also heard from students that Gorbachev was a CIA plant to bring down the Soviet Union.

So at least some of the youth today are getting their news and history from alternative sources!
   1072. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:05 AM (#5536669)
I'm not sure what the tipping point was for it going the other way, i.e. other genres of music incorporating hip hop elements. Maybe it was when Jay-Z / Linkin Park had their successful collaboration in 2004.


Uhh...how about the collaboration of the previous century, Puff Daddy and Jimmy Page, coming together to help the little movie that could.
   1073. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:14 AM (#5536674)
Jimmy Kimmel vs. Cassidy, round 3: “If these guys would tell the truth … I wouldn’t have to”

On Thursday, the late-night host gave his third monologue in three nights attacking the Louisiana senator, who’d appeared on his show months earlier and promised that any bill he’d support would have to protect people with preexisting conditions (including Kimmel’s son, who was born prematurely and required significant medical care).

Kimmel specifically took aim at a critique that has circulated through conservative media: that he should stay out of the debate because he isn’t a health care expert.

“A lot of people have been saying I’m not qualified to talk about this,” Kimmel said. “And that is true, I’m not qualified to talk about this. I think those people forget that Bill Cassidy named this test after me. Am I supposed to just be quiet about that?”
   1074. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:15 AM (#5536675)
Uhh...how about the collaboration of the previous century, Puff Daddy and Jimmy Page, coming together to help the little movie that could.

That's a good point -- around the same time Puff Daddy also did "I'll be Missing You" sampling "Every Breath You Take", as well as the remix of "It's All About the Benjamins" with Dave Grohl and others, which I believe were more popular. All of these, however, were still Puff Daddy incorporating rock elements for crossover appeal rather than the other way around.
   1075. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:17 AM (#5536676)
Clapper lectured me last time I suggested it was likely that Moore would win in Alabama, so I won't make that mistake again!

Moore Keeps Lead In Alabama

A new FOX10 News/Strategy Research poll in Alabama finds Roy Moore (R) leading Sen. Luther Strange (R-AL) in the Republican U.S. Senate primary runoff, 54% to 46%.


Now my official stance is the two opponents (unofficially tagged as Corrupt versus Crazy) have an equal chance to win. But some chances are even more equal than others.
   1076. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5536679)
Bannon vs. Trump In Alabama


Edward Luce: “At stake in Alabama’s Republican primary election is the loyalty of the president’s base. Are they set on humbling America’s establishment come what may, as Mr Trump originally promised? Or is their allegiance to the president as a person, regardless of what he does? Next week will test the theory of Mr Trump’s base. Alabama is the laboratory.”


After the link there is also a link to a Crystal Ball analysis of the race.

Of course I am interested in how well the Democrat does in the race after the primary is over, it could add yet another data point in the "get your surfboards ready ... a wave is coming" stance or it might just dump some water on that theory.
   1077. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:23 AM (#5536680)

Did the New York Times claim that the coup was fake news perpetuated by RT? Or did RT claim the coup was Western-backed, and the Times said that was fake news? I feel like I missed an important element here

NYT didn't mention the real news at all -- IOW, they provided no context to understand why heightened tensions at Incirlik might create alarm about higher security at thr base.

It's not that NYT is blatantly fake, it's that its editors create narratives and then shape the facts to fit them. And there's a trickle down effect upon American journalism.
   1078. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:23 AM (#5536682)
I'm not sure what the tipping point was for it going the other way, i.e. other genres of music incorporating hip hop elements. Maybe it was when Jay-Z / Linkin Park had their successful collaboration in 2004.


REM had KRS-One do some rapping on Radio Song in early 1991. I wouldn't call that the date though, or necessarily say they incorporated hip hop elements into the song. I guess they kind of did. It was more of a recognition/shout out of/to the way things were headed.

'89-'90 was definitely the tipping point in the crossover direction, as you noted. Do the Right Thing (mid-'89) had some cinematic influence that hit music.
   1079. Howie Menckel Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:25 AM (#5536683)
am at least a dozen pages behind - so what's this about Samantha Power and "unmasking?"

real news or fake news? the right-wing radio guys are all in a lather x 3, but I don't see much about it otherwise
   1080. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:28 AM (#5536685)
Deleted. Sigh. I misread.
   1081. Morty Causa Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5536687)
Well that's easy, one was a president who thought the negro entirely inferior to the white man, and the other...wait, this is harder than I thought.

Yeah, it is hard, but let’s not get all Charley Reese about it. Lincoln showed a marked tendency, a definite trajectory, in his thinking toward evolution in his thinking about race. (Samuel Clemens, to name another flagship American cultural figure, is also a study as to this evolution in sensibilities.) Jefferson Davis? Hmm.
   1082. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5536688)
I heard Yevtushenko speak once in the 80's before the fall.

He preferred Oklahoma to New York. “In some provincial cities you can find the real soul of a country,” he told The New York Times in 2003. “I like the craziness of New York, but New York is really not America. It’s all humanity in one drop. Tulsa is very American.” He called Tulsa “the bellybutton of world culture.”

Perceptive man.
   1083. Morty Causa Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5536690)
If a Communist state taxed your earnings at 100% and redistributed it along classic Communist lines,** but otherwise left you alone, and the only reason it remained in power was that it was continually re-elected by Rooseveltian margins, clearly it wouldn't be "totalitarian" by any normal definition. But would you feel you were "free to live" your life? Wouldn't it seem to you as if your life had been 100% stolen from you by the state?

There is no way for there to be a community, a State, especially a complex organization that doesn’t impinge on anyone’s liberty in some way. And, actually, it will constrict everyone’s “freedom” in some way.
   1084. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5536693)
“In some provincial cities you can find the real soul of a country,”


Ugh. I hate this sort of romantic and superficial nonsense. It is endemic and yet dumb every single time. Countries don't have souls. Heck, people don't have souls - countries really really don't and pretending otherwise in a metaphoric homage to "simple living" or "country goodness" or whatever else doesn't make it so.
   1085. Morty Causa Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5536694)
I think people were genuinely upset by the policy implications of what he was saying, and therefore pretended to be outraged by the rest of what he was saying so that they could ignore those policy implications. The fact that they so blatantly lied about what he had actually said is evidence of the fact that their outrage was feigned.

That happens a lot. Insistently distorting assertions is maybe the most prominent way to control the argument and to evade addressing a point one finds inconvenient to address. It's a first step toward villainizing your opponent. See also James Watson.
   1086. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5536695)
1070

Keep an eye on a rising young soprano, Mary Evelyn Hangley.

She was at Glimmerglass this summer, Charlie. Could have seen her AND the HOF.



I know! Summer was crazy and I regret I didn't get the chance. Perhaps next year: I believe she's been invited back.
   1087. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5536698)

'89-'90 was definitely the tipping point in the crossover direction, as you noted. Do the Right Thing (mid-'89) had some cinematic influence that hit music.

1988.

Though it probably took those of you in Vanilla City another year or so.
   1088. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:43 AM (#5536701)
1077

It's not that NYT is blatantly fake, it's that its editors create narratives and then shape the facts to fit them. And there's a trickle down effect upon American journalism.


You act like this is something new.

A couple threads ago, I quoted Hearst's famous dispatch to his reporter covering the Spanish-American War: "You write the story, I'll provide the war."
   1089. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM (#5536702)
Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....
   1090. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5536703)
If a Communist state taxed your earnings at 100% and redistributed it along classic Communist lines,** but otherwise left you alone, and the only reason it remained in power was that it was continually re-elected by Rooseveltian margins, clearly it wouldn't be "totalitarian" by any normal definition. But would you feel you were "free to live" your life? Wouldn't it seem to you as if your life had been 100% stolen from you by the state?

** From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs


There is no way for there to be a community, a State, especially a complex organization that doesn’t impinge on anyone’s liberty in some way. And, actually, it will constrict everyone’s “freedom” in some way.


Of course it will. I was merely alluding to David's longstanding assertion that taxation amounts to "stealing" one's life.
   1091. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:46 AM (#5536704)
You act like this is something new.

It's news to Andy, Morgan Freeman, and the Church of Liberalism of Latter-day Democrats.
   1092. dlf Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:50 AM (#5536707)
Now my official stance is the two opponents (unofficially tagged as Corrupt versus Crazy) have an equal chance to win. But some chances are even more equal than others.


I have been watching Strange's public persona change at an incredibly rapid rate. Until the last ~18 months, he was pretty much bog standard business issues Republican. His professional career has been representation of big business, whether as a lobbyist or as an attorney. He has done that well; some may have philosophical (or is it mathematical?) problems with the positions taken, but none were out of the mainstream. His successful run for Attorney General was also pretty centrist, running against the incumbent, an old law school classmate of mine who was on the far religious right. The start of his term as AG was likewise not out of the norm and, compared to his predecessor who had personal / personnel issues (paying a relatively large state salary to his young boytoy to travel the state with him, etc.), had a clean office.

Then, for whatever reason, he decided to abandon his principles and basically ignore the misdeeds of the Governor and throw sand in the gears of the state legislature's investigation into Bentley. In what appears to be a quid pro quo, Strange was then appointed to Session's unfilled term. And now, his entire campaign is premised on the singular fact that he has been endorsed by DJT. He has no policy, no principle, nothing for which he advocates but being a DJT supporter. Instead of the intelligent, functional, stolid, business focused person he once was, he has become the loud, angry populist that he believes his current mentor to be.

Moore, of course, is a whole 'nother type of crazy. His messianic beliefs and behavior scare the hell out of me and should scare anyone who believes in separation of church and state.
   1093. BDC Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5536709)
In some provincial cities you can find the real soul of a country,”

Ugh. I hate this sort of romantic and superficial nonsense


Yes – among other things, the idea has a blind-men-and-elephant quality to it. "I have been to Amarillo, I know what the real Texas is like."

But it has been powerful rhetorically. I was reading recently about Nuremberg, which by the mid-19th-century was an economic backwater compared to the Rhine cities, to Hamburg, and to capitals like Berlin and Munich and Dresden, which had had their 17th/18th-c. periods of neoclassical grandeur and subsequent rapid modern development. Nuremberg by contrast looked like something out of a medieval fairy tale, so it began to attract artists and photographers who recorded its "authentic" qualities – and so Nuremberg became a focus for imperial and then Nazi ideology of the real soul of Germany.

   1094. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:53 AM (#5536710)
Then, for whatever reason

T-R-U-M-P
   1095. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:57 AM (#5536713)
REM had KRS-One do some rapping on Radio Song in early 1991. I wouldn't call that the date though, or necessarily say they incorporated hip hop elements into the song. I guess they kind of did. It was more of a recognition/shout out of/to the way things were headed.


Public Enemy rerecorded "Bring the Noise" with Anthrax in 1991, both released the version on subsequent albums and they went on a joint tour where the finale would be both bands on stage performing the song.
   1096. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5536715)
Sometimes it takes a foreigner to spot the heart and soul of America culture...

I wonder why we listen to poets when nobody gives a ####.
   1097. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 11:02 AM (#5536718)
so Nuremberg became a focus for imperial and then Nazi ideology of the real soul of Germany.

Tulsa's not too far if you wanna take a ride...
   1098. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5536720)
Can't talk about the mainstreaming of hiphop without giving a nod to Blondie for "Rapture".

By the way, Blondie has a new album this year and it's great. Debbie Harry is the coolest chick in rock history. She has no right being this cool in 2017. Madonna probably wants to stab her.
   1099. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5536721)
1096

I wonder why we listen to poets when nobody gives a ####.


'Cause they're so good with words and stuff...
   1100. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 11:06 AM (#5536723)
Cue the horse laugh* ... Trump publicly backs health care effort, privately harbors doubts

In fact, many Republicans on Capitol Hill believe that Trump cost them Murkowski’s vote in a private phone call this summer. And the president has refrained from making as many calls this go-round, one person familiar with his whipping said.

Several White House officials described the president as determined to sign something — anything, really. And they noted that the bill has drawn concerns from conservative groups for enshrining some parts of Obamacare and taking attention away from tax reform.

“That’s not a very ringing endorsement, when people start out with it’s better than nothing,” Paul said when asked about the White House and leadership argument. “They think that people just want us to do something and do anything."


* though of course the last laugh must wait until the bill passes or doesn't.
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