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Monday, September 18, 2017

OTP 18 September 2017: Ex-Baseball Star Darryl Strawberry Criticizes Jemele Hill, Praises POTUS: Trump is ‘A Great Man’

“I think no one should call anyone anything. President Trump, he’s a great man to me. He was always gracious to me. I really love him, his family, I was on his show and he’s always been kind to me… I’ve known him quite well and every time I’ve seen him and been around him he’s always been so gracious with me and I’m always grateful for that.”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:53 AM | 1552 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: daryl strawberry, politics

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   1201. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 22, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5536983)
"I take no pleasure in announcing my opposition. Far from it. The bill's authors are my dear friends, and I think the world of them. I know they are acting consistently with their beliefs and sense of what is best for the country.


Beliefs founded on killing children for being born defective, apparently.
   1202. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:01 PM (#5536987)
McCain is a NO on Graham-Cassidy

Shocker. It's great to have a governmental system that largely hinges on the fleeting whims of John McCain.
   1203. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:03 PM (#5536988)
Zizek says lots of fun stuff!

Yes he does. Thanks for your discussion of Turkey, Greg.
   1204. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5536999)
Zizek likes to say that in the Yugoslavia he grew up in, actually being an ideological true-believer was a sure fire way to never be allowed within 1,000 feet of the apparatus of the government.

That's pretty consistent with what I've heard from others who grew up behind the Iron Curtain. It usually doesn't take too long before all but the most deluded true believers figure out that Communism doesn't work. But the institutions that surround and support the regime are powerful levers of control, so might as well keep up the pretense and use them to maintain political power.
Yugoslavia was also a special case, in part because Tito was maybe the only 20th century dictator who was actually good at running a state for the benefit of people other than himself and his cronies, and also because the extreme polyglot nature of the state and the equally extreme economic backwardness of most of it made doctrinaire Marxism a non-starter there. The other governments in the East Bloc tended to become cynical about Marxism, but Yugoslavian communism started out wary and stayed that way.

I have a bunch of Bosnian friends, most but not all of them Bosniaks. (If you live in Chicago and meet one Bosnian, you end up meeting thirty Bosnians.) They inevitably get incredibly sad when they think back to the Tito era. As one said, "Then everyone had jobs and no one was trying to kill us."
   1205. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5537002)
Millions and millions and millions of white people in the US respected the rights of blacks in the South, including against other white people. This isn't even debatable

It isn't even debatable because it's as vague as all hell and also quite eccentric.

And more to the point, the respect of those "Millions and millions and millions of white people" somehow managed to keep either slavery or Jim Crow intact for about 350 years. It's not as if Atticus Finch was filing Amicus Curiae briefs in support of Thurgood Marshall, or that a single southern congressman voiced ever support for even a ####### anti-lynching bill.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

It isn't even debatable because it's as vague as all hell and also quite eccentric.

That level of untethered idiocy has to have come from Sugar Bear, yeah?

Since at that point OJ hadn't made any comments since late this morning, all signs point to the Fake-in-Chief.
   1206. tshipman Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:40 PM (#5537008)
Shocker. It's great to have a governmental system that largely hinges on the fleeting whims of John McCain.


I agree with this. The current Republican party has shown the risks of relying on informal norms in government.
   1207. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5537014)
Shocker. It's great to have a governmental system that largely hinges on the fleeting whims of John McCain.

He's not the only or deciding vote.
   1208. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:54 PM (#5537016)
1142

Moreover Andy is draining the state's resources far more than David is. And that number is likely to only increase over the remainder of Andy's life.


Aaaah, but is Andy a hipster homeless...?
   1209. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 22, 2017 at 03:59 PM (#5537018)
And more to the point, the respect of those "Millions and millions and millions of white people" somehow managed to keep either slavery or Jim Crow intact for about 350 years.


So? That isn't what you said, or even close, and what you said is ahistorical and senseless.

And even the thing I quoted above that you wrote isn't true. The North had neither slavery nor Jim Crow at any time, much less for 350 years.

Since at that point OJ hadn't made any comments since late this morning, all signs point to the Fake-in-Chief.


When BM charges in and says, "So let me get this straight, you're saying Jim Crow wasn't bad???," the vaudeville act will be complete.
   1210. Srul Itza Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:01 PM (#5537020)
If we're on a desert island, that's true. If we're living among other people, it isn't. Whether you live up to your contract will affect how others deal with you.


So, wouldn't it also affect people in this world?

Maybe it is different in a tiny, small town where everyone knows everyone.

In the real world, people breach contracts and it does not affect them much, they go on about their lives.

Hell, Trump made not honoring his deals into a business model.
   1211. Srul Itza Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5537022)
Full text of McCain's statement



Shorter version, reading between lines:


Hey Trump, suck on this!
   1212. BrianBrianson Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:09 PM (#5537025)
And the obvious business model then becomes control the flow of information, so you're never the one squelching on agreements, only the other party. Most people really want to avoid being involved in disputes between two other parties, so you can go a long way on "Look, we had a disagreement we couldn't resolve, it's unfortunate" while they're condemning you. And, of course, if you go around saying you've been cheated - you're advertising that you're an easy mark. And then everyone's cheating you, and no one's believing it.

Or - the obvious - if you live in a big city, you'd need to break many hundreds of contracts to develop a reputation. I saw some Toronto Star series about some woman who'd rent a place, not pay rent, resist eviction for many months - then rinse and repeat. In a city of 5 million, it's really, really hard as an individual to have any reputation.
   1213. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:09 PM (#5537028)
Zizek likes to say that in the Yugoslavia he grew up in


Zizek is the Euro pomo whore version of Dershowitz. He says whatever keeps his name in the papers.
   1214. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:10 PM (#5537030)
Zizek is the Euro pomo whore version of Dershowitz. He says whatever keeps his name in the papers.
Yes.
   1215. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:11 PM (#5537031)
In a city of 5 million, it's really, really hard as an individual to have any reputation.


Unless you don't want to bake a cake for a wedding.
   1216. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5537033)
Shocker. It's great to have a governmental system that largely hinges on the fleeting whims of John McCain.


But since Trump is a dictator he can just repeal Obamacare unilaterally.
   1217. cmd600 Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5537047)
McCain makes it clear he voted against repeal for not going through the proper procedure last time. So GOP senators next plan? Try to run it through again without the proper procedure. It's blatantly clear that they don't want to pass this, but just play Trump 3D chess on their constituents and go "but we tried really hard!". The Rays of the world will still defend them going forward, and Obama can still remain a strawman to attack when they need to rile up the plebs.
   1218. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 22, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5537050)
McCain makes it clear he voted against repeal for not going through the proper procedure last time. So GOP senators next plan? Try to run it through again without the proper procedure. It's blatantly clear that they don't want to pass this, but just play Trump 3D chess on their constituents and go "but we tried really hard!". The Rays of the world will still defend them going forward, and Obama can still remain a strawman to attack when they need to rile up the plebs.


Yup. "But we're really going to get it done this time!" and "Hillary!!!" is their 2018 rallying cry. That's the extent of the modern "conservative" party in America. In other news, Kid Rock leads all GOP contenders for Senate in MI. Kid. Rock. You people are ####### morons.
   1219. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 05:01 PM (#5537055)
Moreover Andy is draining the state's resources far more than David is. And that number is likely to only increase over the remainder of Andy's life.

Aaaah, but is Andy a hipster homeless...?


The only thing hip about Andy is what he's going to break if he falls.
   1220. cmd600 Posted: September 22, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5537066)
But since Trump is a dictator he can just repeal Obamacare unilaterally.


"My side is either too incompetent or scared to pass pretty much the only thing they campaigned on for about six years. See how dumb that makes liberals?"
   1221. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5537068)
really, really hard as an individual to have any reputation.

Which goes back to why society largely depends upon goodwill bewtween its members. The Jim Crow South and Segregationist North weren't totalitarian, they just excluded some people from the voluntary social construct. Drill down and that's Ta-nehisi Coates position -- you can pass whatever laws you like, but if people don't practice equality, you're SOL.
   1222. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 05:32 PM (#5537072)
Zizek is the Euro pomo whore version of Dershowitz. He says whatever keeps his name in the papers.
Yes.

Don't strain your wee brains over philosophy, lads.
   1223. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 22, 2017 at 05:35 PM (#5537073)
rile up the plebs.

Who needs GOP when there's always a condescending "liberal" close at hand?
   1224. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2017 at 05:45 PM (#5537075)
Don't strain your wee brains over philosophy, lads.

When yours moves beyond the mirror, let me know.
   1225. BDC Posted: September 22, 2017 at 05:53 PM (#5537077)
An LA Times story this afternoon makes a good point about the Graham-Cassidy plan:

would mark the biggest change to how the nation’s healthcare is financed in more than 50 years


While that may be a little melodramatic (Obamacare itself was a pretty big change), it does underscore the magnitude of suddenly block-granting Medicaid. Not that the idea is new (it's a favorite-pet conservative notion that Trump voiced during his campaign), but that actually enacting it, like over the weekend without much public debate, would be a heck of a change.
   1226. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 06:08 PM (#5537079)
Meanwhile, those kooky kids, Donnie and Lil' Kim are still going at it ...

]
The latest fiery exchange between the United States and North Korea has produced a new kind of threat. On Tuesday, during his speech at the United Nations, President Trump said his government would “totally destroy North Korea” if necessary to defend the United States or its allies. On Friday, Kim Jong Un responded, saying North Korea “will consider with seriousness exercising of a corresponding, highest level of hard-line countermeasure in history.”

The North Korean leader didn’t elaborate on the nature of this countermeasure, but his foreign minister provided a hint: North Korea might test a hydrogen bomb in the Pacific Ocean.

“It could be the most powerful detonation of an H-bomb in the Pacific,” Foreign Minister Ri Yong-ho told reporters at the United Nations General Assembly in New York. “We have no idea about what actions could be taken as it will be ordered by leader Kim Jong Un.”

North Korea has so far conducted nuclear tests in underground chambers and ballistic-missile tests in the sky. Conducting a hydrogen-bomb test in the ocean could mean putting a nuclear warhead on top of a ballistic missile and launching them together toward the sea. If North Korea followed through, the test would be the first detonation of a nuclear weapon in the atmosphere in nearly 40 years.


The Atlantic

Isn't this fun?
   1227. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 22, 2017 at 06:16 PM (#5537080)
Aaaah, but is Andy a hipster homeless...?

The only thing hip about Andy is what he's going to break if he falls.

Ah, but then I'll be draining Ray's tax money with my government-paid for replacement hip. I'll be a Lucky Ducky.
   1228. madvillain Posted: September 22, 2017 at 06:42 PM (#5537087)
“It could be the most powerful detonation of an H-bomb in the Pacific,” Foreign Minister Ri Yong-ho told reporters at the United Nations General Assembly in New York. “We have no idea about what actions could be taken as it will be ordered by leader Kim Jong Un.”


Somehow I don't think it will top this one.

   1229. Morty Causa Posted: September 22, 2017 at 06:43 PM (#5537088)
Moreover Andy is draining the state's resources far more than David is. And that number is likely to only increase over the remainder of Andy's life.

Well, to know that, we would really need to know both the positive and negative. The debit as well as the credit side of the ledger as to both profession. Not just look at their income but also consider their losses, and by that, I also mean the losses of their clients and the cost to our economic system. It can get complicated, especially when inventorying the lawyer's assets and costs. For instance, if in a case he asks for a $1million, but only gets his client $100k, how would that factor as to society's and the state's gain? Has he provided a gain of $100k or a loss of $900k to the overall nation's account. And not just that, but that party who pays out--isn't that hurting the economy as a whole, says the libertarian and free-market conservative. Something similar applies if the lawyer represents the defendant, too. We're paying for those insurance defense attorneys who charge clients $150 for research when the $20 an hour paralegal is doing almost all the actual work. Really, is the legal system a net gain or a real loss? Many people would hold it is a tremendous drain on the economy. How does all that sucking sound on the nation's plenty compare vis-a-vis the drain on the economy of the second-hand bookstore industry?
   1230. cmd600 Posted: September 22, 2017 at 07:04 PM (#5537096)
Who needs GOP when there's always a condescending "liberal" close at hand?


Only a GOPer would consider it "condescending" to be referred to as a commoner.
   1231. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 22, 2017 at 07:47 PM (#5537113)
Only a GOPer would consider it "condescending" to be referred to as a commoner.


Only the jackass perros would post 1223 after his 1222. Gah what a complete tool you are, perros. Does anyone IRL care for your BS?
   1232. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:04 PM (#5537138)
And the obvious business model then becomes control the flow of information, so you're never the one squelching on agreements, only the other party. Most people really want to avoid being involved in disputes between two other parties, so you can go a long way on "Look, we had a disagreement we couldn't resolve, it's unfortunate" while they're condemning you. And, of course, if you go around saying you've been cheated - you're advertising that you're an easy mark. And then everyone's cheating you, and no one's believing it.
No. The neutral arbitrator that the parties agreed to is the one deciding which party is at fault.

But of course that would only be one aspect of how the system would be different. (One thing I find fascinating is that when people discuss how the world would be different if a libertarian system were in place, they (a) imagine a world pretty much exactly like this one, with only one change, (b) argue that changing this one thing would make the system fail, and (c) assume that the system would therefore fail.) For significant contracts, the parties would rely on bonding companies. It would be those companies that would track reputations.

Or - the obvious - if you live in a big city, you'd need to break many hundreds of contracts to develop a reputation. I saw some Toronto Star series about some woman who'd rent a place, not pay rent, resist eviction for many months - then rinse and repeat. In a city of 5 million, it's really, really hard as an individual to have any reputation.
No, it isn't. That story (which I also saw) was really about government failure; the woman knew how to exploit the system. First, it's prohibitively expensive to evict someone. Second (quoting one of the articles about the woman), "Privacy laws kept landlords in the dark when vetting a future tenant. In Ontario, a renter or landlord’s track record — no matter how tainted — is sealed and kept secret."

(Now, contrast that with Uber's customer and driver rating systems for managing reputations. All without the need for governmental involvement.)
   1233. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:28 PM (#5537157)
"Privacy laws kept landlords in the dark when vetting a future tenant. In Ontario, a renter or landlord’s track record — no matter how tainted — is sealed and kept secret."

(Now, contrast that with Uber's customer and driver rating systems for managing reputations. All without the need for governmental involvement.)


I agree in general, but a person's need for housing is far more important than a person's need for a convenient ride from point A to point B. I wouldn't want someone's ability to find housing affected by a 1 star rating from a dickish landlord.
   1234. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:42 PM (#5537164)
"Privacy laws kept landlords in the dark when vetting a future tenant. In Ontario, a renter or landlord’s track record — no matter how tainted — is sealed and kept secret."

(Now, contrast that with Uber's customer and driver rating systems for managing reputations. All without the need for governmental involvement.)

I agree in general, but a person's need for housing is far more important than a person's need for a convenient ride from point A to point B. I wouldn't want someone's ability to find housing affected by a 1 star rating from a dickish landlord.

It's also true that landlords with many multiple cases of housing code violations and / or tenant harassment are often allowed to stay in business as if nothing had happened. When was the last time any well connected landlord was forced out of business even after it was shown that he'd hired goons to harass tenants out of their apartments, or deliberately let code violations go unrepaired?
   1235. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:47 PM (#5537169)
Only the jackass perros would post 1223 after his 1222. Gah what a complete tool you are, perros. Does anyone IRL care for your BS?


Personally I go between ignoring him and Ignoring him. Every once in a while it is worth responding, but mostly he is background.

Every once in a while SBB is worth responding to, but he is also ignore and Ignore worthy IMO.

And for the record may I comment I love having SBB argue Libertarianism. He is a much more ... amusing proponent than David is (mostly because David actually knows what he is talking about).
   1236. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:07 PM (#5537180)
And for the record may I comment I love having SBB argue Libertarianism. He is a much more ... amusing proponent . . .

Sugar Bear is a gun-grabbing, soda-taxing, Michael Bloomberg style liberal. His expertise is the difference between liberalism and "modern liberalism", not libertarianism.
   1237. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:25 PM (#5537188)
Sugar Bear is a gun-grabbing, soda-taxing, Michael Bloomberg style liberal. His expertise is the difference between liberalism and "modern liberalism", not libertarianism.


When you are right ... you are right.
   1238. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:34 PM (#5537196)
That story (which I also saw) was really about government failure.

You don't say.
   1239. simon bedford Posted: September 22, 2017 at 10:35 PM (#5537197)
I live in Ontario and there is no such law that seals records of either tenants or landlords and most landlords insist on getting reference from previous landlords and running credit checks, I have no idea where you get the idea they cant do this, they always could and still do.
   1240. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 22, 2017 at 11:00 PM (#5537211)
I have no idea why you're talking about references, since I didn't say one word about that. I "get the idea" that the government conceals records from the article I quoted that said so. (This article describes the relevant privacy laws.)
   1241. simon bedford Posted: September 22, 2017 at 11:12 PM (#5537214)
Yeah well thats a very specific set of laws , nothing to do with landlords doing their homework, you do a credit check and get references from other lanlords , both of which are completely legal , the landlord tennant board a tory idea that never worked as a bureaucratic right wing mess which heavily favors landlords in its findings but does not make that info public, for either side.
   1242. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 12:06 AM (#5537237)
Given our past dealings here (McDonalds coffee, anyone?), I am not going to waste time debating law with the comic stylings of Simon Bedford. But unless socialist Canada is really different than the far more conservative U.S., calling landlord-tenant court "right wing" or "heavily favoring landlords" is delusional.
   1243. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 12:10 AM (#5537238)
(One thing I find fascinating is that when people discuss how the world would be different if a libertarian system were in place, they (a) imagine a world pretty much exactly like this one, with only one change, (b) argue that changing this one thing would make the system fail, and (c) assume that the system would therefore fail.)


And that seems to describe the charities issue well. So if the libertarian argument is that without so much taxpayer money going to the poor, charitable donations would fill the gap, we get as a rebuttal, "We already see that charitable donations aren't nearly enough." Well, yeah. Because right now the government is taking care of it, and people know that. But the argument is that *if government were doing less*, people would give much more in charitable donations.
   1244. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 12:17 AM (#5537240)
It's also true that landlords with many multiple cases of housing code violations and / or tenant harassment are often allowed to stay in business as if nothing had happened. When was the last time any well connected landlord was forced out of business even after it was shown that he'd hired goons to harass tenants out of their apartments, or deliberately let code violations go unrepaired?


And why did the landlords hire goons to harass the tenants out of their apartments, in the example you cited? Because the government had stuck its nose into the process by creating "rent-stabilized" tenants. So the brothers were unable to rent at market value. So they decided to break the law in order to compensate.

It still makes the landlords criminals and terrible people, but my point isn't that they're excused from bad behavior; rather, my point is that by implementing an unfair and immoral rent-control law, the government caused unintended consequences to result.
   1245. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 12:20 AM (#5537241)
1239-1242 is a fun sequence of posts.
   1246. simon bedford Posted: September 23, 2017 at 06:45 AM (#5537258)
David
I live here and know the history of the LTB and have actually had the misfortune of having had to deal with it, the process BEFORE it was enacted was far superior but the Conservative party of Ontario decided to place this new model in an attempt to be more responsive to Landlord complaints ( and they still have tons as that article demonstrates.)
Over the last few years with the liberals in power the balance has shifted however it is not how it is presented in that 3 year old article, Landlords have the ability to remove people at a much quicker rate although they now can be penalized much more harshly for not giving the correct amount of notice.
Given that you represented yourself as dimly and pedantic as always during the "Mcdonalds" non debate I expect nothing from you here , except that you have no clue what you are talking about which seems to be more and more the case of late.
   1247. simon bedford Posted: September 23, 2017 at 06:48 AM (#5537259)
Under the LTA landlords had many ways to get around "rent control" its only been since that article that the loopholes have been closed.
The LTA board were a slow moving apparatus and the Toronto real estate market for renters was doing booming business so it was faster to try and skate around the law than to suffer through the long drawn out process of trying to get before one of their tribunals and the endless appeal process that was available to renters.
   1248. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 23, 2017 at 08:32 AM (#5537265)
It's also true that landlords with many multiple cases of housing code violations and / or tenant harassment are often allowed to stay in business as if nothing had happened. When was the last time any well connected landlord was forced out of business even after it was shown that he'd hired goons to harass tenants out of their apartments, or deliberately let code violations go unrepaired?

And why did the landlords hire goons to harass the tenants out of their apartments, in the example you cited? Because the government had stuck its nose into the process by creating "rent-stabilized" tenants. So the brothers were unable to rent at market value. So they decided to break the law in order to compensate.

It still makes the landlords criminals and terrible people, but my point isn't that they're excused from bad behavior; rather, my point is that by implementing an unfair and immoral rent-control law, the government caused unintended consequences to result.


There's a certain amount of logic to that, I suppose, if you think that rent control laws represent some sort of evil.

So what do you think about Palestinians who randomly murder West Bank settlers who are living on formerly Palestinian land that was confiscated by the Israeli government, in its pursuit of what some might call lebensraum for Jewish settlers? Is that the fault of the state of Israel? Did that land seizure cause those settlers to be murdered, or as you might put it, did it cause those "unintended consequences"?

There are countless laws that countless numbers of people consider unjust, and countless numbers of people who rightly or wrongly feel themselves victimized by them. Is there something extra special and abhorrent to you about rent control laws that makes you want to explain (though not justify) a violently criminal reaction to them? What other laws would fall into that category?

If your rationale here is that rent control laws are effectively stealing the lives of property owners, then am I right to assume that we should have expected every slave to have murdered every slave owner, even those benign slave owners depicted in Gone With The Wind?

This isn't a Gotcha. I'm just trying to see what the underlying principle might be that triggered your reaction to my comment. Note that I'm NOT claiming you were justifying the landlords' hiring of the goons.
   1249. simon bedford Posted: September 23, 2017 at 08:37 AM (#5537266)
I am going to take the time to explain the system and how this person was able to play it just in case anyone is actually interested in how Ontario renting laws actually work. This woman is a scam artist who knows how to play the system and doesnt care what the consequences are for her and here is how she does it.
In our province the current laws heavily favour landlords, they can and do rent out units that do not come close to meeting code and can keep collecting rent on these units until a renter takes action (although they only have a short allotted time to do so) so the onus is on the renter to 'prove" a unit is in fact not a legal one. So this woman finds unsophisticated home owners who are renting out part of their houses , they dont do a credit check so they dont find out shes a scam artist , she moves in and immediately starts filing all the necessary paperwork to start the process against the landlords who are renting out non coded units. This is a long drawn out process that came into being thanks to "the renters protection" bill that was passed back in 1998, the Landlord tennant act did not close any of the loopholes for either side it simply removed the actions from the regular court system and placed them in the hands of a new board.
This woman then refuses to pay rent during the process and holds out as long as she can. End result? she goes to jail for fraud.
   1250. simon bedford Posted: September 23, 2017 at 08:40 AM (#5537268)
Andy
"rent control" in Ontario is a complete misnomer, it only applies to long term tenants who are allowed to extend their leases. Landlords can make a "n-12" claim which states they are taking control of the unit for themselves for the next 12 months either for "renovations" or for "family use", there is no appeals process for this action and when the Landlord puts the unit back on the market the previous rent is not a factor in what they can charge.
   1251. Greg K Posted: September 23, 2017 at 09:18 AM (#5537273)
And that seems to describe the charities issue well. So if the libertarian argument is that without so much taxpayer money going to the poor, charitable donations would fill the gap, we get as a rebuttal, "We already see that charitable donations aren't nearly enough." Well, yeah. Because right now the government is taking care of it, and people know that. But the argument is that *if government were doing less*, people would give much more in charitable donations.

Although the history of poor relief doesn't precisely track this conversation (Church programs and parish relief systems in England were always around, there never was a totally government-free system of poor relief), it is kind of useful.

One of the reasons you get larger, and more centralized systems of poor relief emerging in the 19th century is that the old systems, which relied on a mixture of private charity and local regimes of taxation and welfare where everyone knew the individual stories of the recipients, was the fact that those systems were totally swamped by the realities of a modern economy.

So while it's not fair to say, humanity tried completely private systems of charity and they failed, our current version of poor relief emerged out of a total failure of the previous system. Private charity wasn't stepping in to fill the gap, the free market advocates in Britain tried out market solutions in the early 19th century and those didn't work out so great. I don't think history disproves the idea that private charity would step in to replace government poor relief, but to me, it suggests it quite heavily.
   1252. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 23, 2017 at 09:39 AM (#5537281)
The Blowhard in Chief in Alabama last night:

(CNN)President Donald Trump criticized some in the National Football League Friday night at a rally for Alabama Republican Senate candidate Luther Strange, saying team owners should fire players for taking a knee during the national anthem.

Trump added that if fans would "leave the stadium" when players kneel in protest during the national anthem, "I guarantee, things will stop."

Trump said NFL owners should respond to the players by saying, "Get that son of a ##### off the field right now, he's fired. He's fired!"


If only he could have mustered 1/10th that much outrage against White Supremecists. Also this little tidbit:

Trump also took aim at NFL efforts to prevent concussions. "They're ruining the game, right?" he said. "They're ruining the game."


That's borderline sociopathic. What a dirtbag.
   1253. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 23, 2017 at 09:51 AM (#5537284)
That's borderline sociopathic. What a dirtbag.


He's our Nero.
   1254. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 09:55 AM (#5537285)
He's our Nero.


I'd rather he was Caligula, at least then we'd get Claudius ...
   1255. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 23, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5537288)
Andy
"rent control" in Ontario is a complete misnomer, it only applies to long term tenants who are allowed to extend their leases.


AFAIK that pretty much applies to rent control laws everywhere. My ex-GF and I paid $200 a month for a rent controlled 2 bedroom apartment in the Adams-Morgan section of Washington in 1975. By 1991, when my wife and I bought a house in Maryland, we were paying $546. By early 2001, that same apartment was up to $2000, and now it's about $3600. By contrast, if the rent in that apartment had merely mirrored the CPI, it'd now be just under $900. I wonder what the sole remaining tenant from 1975 is now paying, as the rest have either all moved out or died.
   1256. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 23, 2017 at 11:14 AM (#5537293)
Re: #1252--

The full transcript:
Luther and I, and everyone in this arena tonight, are unified by the same great American values. We’re proud of our country. We respect our flag! Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say ‘Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out, he’s fired!’ HE’S FIRED!

[walks away from podium while extending hands sideways and making resigned “can you believe this?" expression]
[crowd chants “U! S! A!”]


You know, some owner is going to do that. He’s gonna say, ‘That guy who disrespects our flag, he’s fired. And that owner, they don’t know it, they don’t know, they’re friends of mine, many of the, they don’t know, they’re going to be the most popular person, for a week. They’re going to be the most popular person in this country. ‘Cause that’s a total disrespect of out heritage, that’s a total disrespect of everything that we stand for, okay? Everything that we stand for.

And I know we have freedoms, and we have freedom of choice and many, many different freedoms, but you know what? It’s still totally disrespectful, and you know when the NFL ratings are down, massively. Massively. The NFL ratings are down massively. Now the #1 reason happens to be that they like watching what’s happening on, you know, with yours truly. They like what’s happening.

This, because you know, today, if you hit too hard, right, if they hit too hard, FIFTEEN YARDS, throw him out of the game. They had that last week, I watched for a couple of minutes. [puts fists together to symbolize a helmet-on-helmet collision] Two guys, just, beautiful tackle, BOOM, FIFTEEN YARDS, the referee gets on television, his wife is sitting at home, she’s so proud of him, they’re ruining the GAME! Right? They’re ruining the game. Look, that’s what they want to do. They want to hit. They want to hit. But it is hurting the game.

But you know what’s hurting the game more than that? When people like yourselves turn on television, and you see those people taking the knee, when they’re playing our great national anthem. [pantomimes turning a TV knob off] The only thing you could do better is if you see it, even if it’s one player, leave the stadium, I guarantee things will stop. Things will top. Just pick up and leave. Pick up and leave. Not the same game anymore, anyway.
   1257. Count Posted: September 23, 2017 at 11:19 AM (#5537294)
L+T court favors landlords in that most of the tenants are unrepresented and the landlords' attorneys are in front of the courts constantly (see the classic essay about repeat players versus one shotters). It is not difficult for a landlord to take advantage of an unrepresented tenant with a BS rent breakdown or failure to inform the tenant or the court that the building is de facto rent stabilized etc. Even when the tenants get lawyers they've often already signed a bad stipulation or defaulted or fallen way behind on rent that they could or should have had subsidized. The judges vary considerably in their sympathy towards tenants.

Meanwhile, one of (or the) most notorious landlords in NYC got one year in jail and a five million dollar fine. He also was allowed to start his jail sentence after Yom Kippur, which I am fine with but which I am guessing is the sort of courtesy not extended to most convicts. These landlords can't get a break!

(You can make a broader argument that the system of rent control / regulation / etc. in NY drives up prices for everyone and ultimately hurts the poor; I remember hearing this in, literally, Economics 101, and I am open minded about it. But that's a separate question from whether the court system favors tenants).
   1258. dlf Posted: September 23, 2017 at 11:21 AM (#5537295)
The full transcript:


Not the full transcript. He spoke for over an hour and a half. NYT reported that at the 60 minute mark folks were leaving. The event was supposed to be a campaign stop to support Luther Strange, but during the course of the rambling talk, he also praised Roy Moore and said that if Moore wins the run off, Trump will support him. Apparently, he spent more time during the speech attacking McCain and McConnell, complaining that the Senate won't take action on ACA, talked about folks in Mexico catapulting drugs over the wall, and how easy it would have been for him to have won the popular vote if he wanted than the man he was there to campaign for.
   1259. Count Posted: September 23, 2017 at 11:26 AM (#5537296)
re Google Guy - I probably would not have fired him because I believe in very strong protections for speech, including at the workplace, and it seemed like google was encouraging employees to speak freely. His essay was not good. There probably are some innate gender differences that are reflected in workforce composition, but his specific arguments, as BDC discussed, were junk. And his twitter activity this week suggests he is a trollish guy looking for attention.
   1260. Count Posted: September 23, 2017 at 11:33 AM (#5537298)
dlf any chance the Dem wins in Alabama? Any? At all?
   1261. dlf Posted: September 23, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5537302)
#1260 - I moved away more than a decade ago, but still have family in Mobile and Birmingham, so I keep up a little. The GOPe *hates* Roy Moore, but much of the DJT base *loves* him. Doug Jones, the Democratic nominee, is a pretty bland guy. Former US Attorney who prosecuted the B'ham church bombers something like five decades after the cowardly acts. But he isn't dynamic and has no natural constituency. Basically, he will get the D votes and, if Moore wins the primary, may also get some of the B'ham monied vote too. The D's haven't had a Senator in Alabama since Heflin retired and Shelby changed parties several decades back and they have a real uphill battle. If I were a betting man, I'd say that if Strange wins the nomination, the odds are 90:10 for the R's, but if Moore wins it is more like 60:40.
   1262. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 23, 2017 at 11:56 AM (#5537303)
The full transcript:

Not the full transcript. He spoke for over an hour and a half.



Yeah, okay. The full transcript of Trump's football/kneeling/fire the son of a bitch segment that Misirlou was posting about.
   1263. Count Posted: September 23, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5537304)
So you're saying there's a chance? 60/40 against Moore is better than I would have thought to be honest.
   1264. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 23, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5537307)
The full transcript of Trump's football/kneeling/fire the son of a ##### segment that Misirlou was posting about.


F'ing dirtbag. F'ing low life pond scum dirtbag. Same goes for anyone who supports him. How dare the NFL takes steps to protect the health and well being of its employees. trump and his ####### deplorables want to be entertained. Bunch of low life scum, all of them.
   1265. dlf Posted: September 23, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5537308)
Last time there was a contested election for Senate in Alabama, Shelby won with about 65% of the vote. I figure that is the base level of support that a fungible R candidate would expect and Strange would be close to that absent something unexpected. (Perhaps folks staying home because Big Luther is McConnell's candidate? I doubt it, but again if I expected it, it wouldn't be unexpected ...)

Moore, though, has a spotted history. He twice won election to Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court before twice being removed because he takes actions in defiance of a long history of and court decrees related to separation between church and state. But he has also twice run for other state-wide office, loosing by a lot in R primaries for Governor in '06 and '10. There is a natural ceiling on his support and the possibility of a lot of downside. Clearly, he is the candidate with a much wider distribution of expectations.
   1266. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 12:55 PM (#5537313)
trump and his ####### deplorables want to be entertained.


ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!?!?!?
   1267. BDC Posted: September 23, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5537317)
More fun with my Facebook group this morning. We post historical pictures of New York. I posted one and got a note pronto from a group admin saying that I really needed to post a source for the image! I explained that it was from the New York Tribune and that I had carefully noted the Tribune and the date of the issue as the source. (It's from the year 1901, it's in the public domain, there is no photographer credit.)

He said yes, you've got the location and the date, that's great, but we really need the source!

I felt like Don Mattingly talking to Mr. Burns about his sideburns.
   1268. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 23, 2017 at 01:51 PM (#5537334)
You don't often see Presidential endorsements as stirring as this one:
But I'm gonna tell you, I'll just tell you this quick crazy story, so why do I like Luther, because you know, I have a lot of friends, and some of them called: 'Do you mind if I go for the other candidate?' I said 'Really, you can,' because some of 'em are working for me, and they feel, and that's fine. Course, they may not have a job on Monday, these are my, right, Richard? We may have to get rid of a few of them. I’ve already gotten rid of a few of them. But they're good people, no, they're good people.

...I'm here sort of for two. I'm here for Luther, and I'm actually here, it's a Friday night, and I really do love the people of Alabama, 'cause you've treated me so good. In fact, in fact, I said, I don't want to speak negatively, I said if I lose this election, maybe I'll end up moving to ALABAMA, or KENTUCKY, or, like, some states! Be nice to go where people love you, and you love them, because it's special, so here's what happened! Here's what happened. But we never want to lose, right?

... So, Luther, that's why I call him Big Luther. Everyone's now calling him Big Luther.

...Now I call Luther Strange. I say, "Uchh, I gotta call this guy,' and he's a No. Right? And I say, 'Senator, I need your help.' I said, 'I've got to get your vote on healthcare,' he says, 'You've got it.' True! I said, 'What do you mean, I have it? 'Cause I've just been hammered by all of these people. What do you mean, I have it?' He said, 'Sir, I was for you right from the beginning. I knew you were going to win, I knew you were going to win the whole thing. I've always been for you, my family's always been for you. And honestly, Mr. President, if you want my vote, you have it.' I said, 'Do I have to come and meet you someplace? Do I have to have dinner with your family?' I think his wife, by the way, is fantastic, but I said, 'Do I have to have dinner with you and your wife?'

... So, anyway, time goes, time goes by, and I see Luther's in a race. And he, he, people are saying he's friendly. Whether you like Mitch McConnell or not doesn't matter but. They're saying he's friendly with Mitch, he doesn't know Mitch McConnell, he was just there for a few months, and they've put that mantle around his neck and I told Mitch, I'd like to say this, I don't like to, but, I'm telling you. He doesn't know Mitch McConnell at all. Luther is a tough, tough cookie. He doesn't deal with, and kowtow to anybody. So they put it around, so all of a sudden I see, he's down in the race by a lot.

...And I checked, and he was down, because of being saddled with stuff, he was down by quite a bit. And I said, 'I'm going to endorse you,' and he didn't believe it. He said, 'You would do that?' I said, 'Yeah, I'm going to do that.' I shouldn’t be doing it. The last thing I want to do is be involved in a primary. Okay? I could be sitting home right now, getting to watch some of the games tomorrow, getting ready, right? But, but seriously, the last thing I wanted to do was get ready, but, I'll never forget the way he did that, it was really cool.

... And I remembered Luther. We have to be loyal in life. You know, there's something called loyalty, with these folks. And I might have made a mistake. And I’ll be honest, I might have made a mistake. Because, you know, here's the story. If Luther doesn’t win, they’re not going to say we picked up 25 points in a very short period of time. They're going to say 'Donald Trump, the President of the United States, was unable to pull his candidate across the line. It is a terrible, terrible moment for Trump. This is total embarrassment,' I mean these are bad people.

And by the way, both good men. Both good men. And you know what, and I told Luther I have to say this, if his opponent wins, I’m going to be here campaigning like hell for him. But, I have to say this, and you understand this, and just look at the polls.

... So I said, ‘I’ll be there.’ And then, I saw some things that I didn’t like. He was down a little further than I like [half-laugh], I said, ‘I’m not sure.’

... I can tell you that when Big Luther, we call him now Big Luther, did people call you Big Luther before you met Trump? You know, I brand people. Some people I brand as this or that, I, we don’t have to go into it because a lot of them are now friends of mine. A lot of them are friends of mine, but, so nobody ever called you Big Luther, I think it’s a great name, the guy’s seven feet tall, what are you going to do, call him? Can’t call him, I can never call him Little Luther, right? But I do, I just saw him, I said, ‘He’s Big Luther.’

…And I have to tell you, friends of mine, ‘cause I have a lot of friends in Alabama, and friends of mine have told me, very strongly, that if Luther wasn’t appointed to office, for the short term, if he just said he’s going to run when you have to run, which is now, he’d be leading every poll by 50 points. He’d be killing everybody. But the fact that he got appointed, hurt him. In fact, he was thinking about not accepting that.
   1269. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 23, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5537336)
Politico notes:
Alabama does not register voters by party, so all registered voters are eligible to cast ballots next Tuesday.


It would be very funny if there was a big Democratic turnout for Roy Moore.
   1270. greenback is not cosmopolitan Posted: September 23, 2017 at 02:11 PM (#5537340)
It would be very funny if there was a big Democratic turnout for Roy Moore.

Yeah, that worked so well last year.
   1271. Lassus Posted: September 23, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5537342)
More fun with my Facebook group this morning. We post historical pictures of New York.

I'm going to see Harold Lloyd's "Speedy" (filmed on location in NYC in 1928) on a big screen tonight at the local museum, which I'm pretty excited about.
   1272. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 23, 2017 at 02:58 PM (#5537357)
@chrislhayes
Yesterday POTUS met w/ a foreign leader whose thugs beat the crap out of American protesters in DC. He boasted of their "great friendship"

Today the President called American citizens who express their political views sons of #######.

   1273. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5537358)
Stephen Curry declined going to the White House, so the President pretended he pulled the invite. LeBron:

U bum @StephenCurry30 already said he ain't going! So therefore ain't no invite. Going to White House was a great honor until you showed up!
11:17 AM - 23 Sep 2017
   1274. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:01 PM (#5537360)
F'ing dirtbag. F'ing low life pond scum dirtbag. Same goes for anyone who supports him. How dare the NFL takes steps to protect the health and well being of its employees. trump and his ####### deplorables want to be entertained. Bunch of low life scum, all of them.


Bears repeating. But libs are triggered, so congrats, MAGAs.
   1275. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:19 PM (#5537368)
But libs are triggered, so congrats, MAGAs.


All the hubub today is about Trump picking fights with ex-football players and current NBA players, which is a shame. Yeah, it shows once again how small a person Trump is. But we already knew that several times over. I could give a #### about this new piece of evidence. But I'm far more concerned with the President of the US telling owners of private busnisses that they should fire employees for expressing political opinions. And at the same time berating those businessmen for taking steps to protect the health and welfare of those employees. It's disgusting.

That said, I can certainly keep more than one thought in my head. I can express my disgust with Trump while still worrying about larger issues. So save your breath ray.
   1276. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5537370)
I'm going to see Harold Lloyd's "Speedy" (filmed on location in NYC in 1928) on a big screen tonight at the local museum, which I'm pretty excited about.

You should be, and not just because of Babe Ruth's eventful cab ride. It's also one of Lloyd's best movies. I've seen it on TV and youtube many times, but only a big screen will do it full justice. It's worth it just for the street scenes in 1928 Manhattan, when traffic was a bit more spontaneous than it is today.
   1277. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:43 PM (#5537380)
F'ing dirtbag. F'ing low life pond scum dirtbag. Same goes for anyone who supports him. How dare the NFL takes steps to protect the health and well being of its employees. trump and his ####### deplorables want to be entertained. Bunch of low life scum, all of them.


On the list of objectionable things that Trump has done or said this is... quite low. It's an interesting thing to get one's back up over.

70 year old man thinks the NFL was better before the rules changes turned the players into fairies. Film at 11.

The players aren't indentured servants. They're making a ton of money to play. A great many of them prefer the earlier rules. Some don't. Those who don't are free to go and do something else. Some of them have.

And I support the rules changes -- in fact, I'd go further to turn the NFL into flag football tomorrow. But it's not my league. Most people wouldn't watch.

The stupidity in Trump's remarks is that the owners can't just "fire" a player without satisfying their obligations remaining under the contract. Nor would an owner want to release a productive player.

The stupidity in your remarks is that you assume the NFL owners give a rat's ass about player safety. They don't, or they would have done something long before the public tide turned against them. They care about being able to continue to market and sell and profit from their business.

(Which is not to say that the lawsuits against the NFL by players of past decades have any merit. They're frivolous. But that's a separate issue.)

Again, frankly I'd watch flag football or two-hand touch. I like seeing the base athletic skills. I don't want or need the collisions.

As to inviting or disinviting players to the White House, again, the ship of Trump being "presidential" on these issues has long since sailed. He's decided that when people criticize him he's going to respond in kind. It is what it is. There's a certain amount of logic to not bending over while people attack you. Then again, traditionally the president has done a massive amount of bending over in these situations.

But I'd say that the overall issue of players protesting the national anthem amounts to (a) extreme silliness, as it pretends that 2017 US is a bad place, and (b) is rich coming from players who are... well... rich. Colin Kaepernick once signed a $126 million contract. The idea that racism has kept him out of the league is ridiculous. Steph Curry is worth god knows what at this point. They and their supporters pretend that they're part of the unwashed masses. Similar to how JLaw and her $XXX million net worth are supposed to be the victims of sexism. (One could certainly be rich AND the product of a "gender pay gap." But there's absolutely nothing to believe that JLaw is, or that a gender pay gap exists once proper context is taken into account.)

Once again I say: the message the left is feeding their constituents -- that the US is led by white supremacists and racism has a boot on their necks -- is pure poison. It prevents people from believing that they can succeed in the US. As such it's a wrong and despicable message.
   1278. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:48 PM (#5537382)
70 year old man thinks the NFL was better before the rules changes turned the players into fairies.


Fairies!

Do they mince and prance about now, RayRay, is that the problem?

   1279. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5537383)
Frankly I'd watch flag football or two-hand touch. I like seeing the base athletic skills. I don't want or need the collisions.


I agree with this and much of what preceded it. But have you ever watched rugby? It's great. I haven't figured out all the rules (I guess I could wiki them), but what little I have figured out keeps me watching. 4 tries (or 5,, i forget) and then they kick it away (or try for a 2 pointer...or is it a 1 pointer..who knows, who cares, it's fun!)

edit...you don't see as many serious injuries in rugby than you do in the NFL. Not sure about CTE, it seems like they might have a problem there, but not as much of a problem as the NFL has.


edit to edit...yeah, Trump has said lots worse, but so what? It isn't as if he's Donald Trump circa 2000. He's the POTUS now, so, for the umpteenth time, his words matter much more now.
   1280. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:58 PM (#5537387)
Ray, you know nothing of nuance. It's a lot harder to deny opportunity to people in the entertainment industries than it is in, say, patent law. No one is watching patent attorneys work their magic (substitute whatever white collar job for patent attorney). Adequate is good enough, if you own a firm and are hell bent on predominantly hiring white males.
   1281. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:59 PM (#5537390)
But I'm far more concerned with the President of the US telling owners of private busnisses that they should fire employees for expressing political opinions.


Last week the mayor of NYC told John Jay college it should fire its "economics" professor for expressing a political opinion.

Granted John Jay is a public college, but still.
   1282. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:07 PM (#5537393)
On the list of objectionable things that Trump has done or said this is... quite low. It's an interesting thing to get one's back up over.


So, the only valid criticizm of Trump is over the worst thing he's ever done and said? Do you apply that principle to the Clintons?

70 year old man thinks the NFL was better before the rules changes turned the players into fairies. Film at 11.


Are we talking about Uncle leo or the president of the US? It's funny how when he does or says something ridiculous, he's just another old man set in his ways. When the president of the US acts like Uncle Leo, saying he's just Uncle Leo is hardly a defense. If he wants to be Uncle Leo, let him, and let an adult be President.

He's decided that when people criticize him he's going to respond in kind.


I'm sorry. Which of the SOBs (his words) who kneel during the anthem attacked him? He picked this fight, not them. And how does he get off attacking their mothers? Oh right, the Uncle Leo defense.
   1283. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:08 PM (#5537394)
Ray, you know nothing of nuance. It's a lot harder to deny opportunity to people in the entertainment industries than it is in, say, patent law. No one is watching patent attorneys work their magic (substitute whatever white collar job for patent attorney). Adequate is good enough, if you own a firm and are hell bent on predominantly hiring white males.


Law firms -- at least those in NYC and at least those who are more than a few practitioners -- go out of their way to be diverse. I imagine this suit is followed around the country.

But the alleged Hollywood actress pay gap is interesting. Let's say you make a movie starring JLaw as an attorney or something. So a man could be in the lead role just the same, as the role itself is not gender dependent. The movie with JLaw grosses $100 million. But now let's say the same movie is made with Matt Damon. It makes $200 million.

Should Damon not be paid more for the same work? Audiences turn out for him more.

Salaries on a movie depend I would think in part on drawing power of the star. If movies with male leads draw more than movies with female leads then it would seem to me that the problem is not a discrimination within the industry but is simply an external issue of what draws audiences.

Salaries may also depend on how long the actor/actress is on set for, how large their par in the movie is, etc. If the movie stars Tom Cruise, Matt Damon, and Jennifer Lawrence and Cruise and Damon are bigger stars and thus attract bigger audiences it would seem that that would be the driver of why they would get a bigger salary.
   1284. Ishmael Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:09 PM (#5537395)
I agree with this and much of what preceded it. But have you ever watched rugby? It's great. I haven't figured out all the rules (I guess I could wiki them), but what little I have figured out keeps me watching. 4 tries (or 5,, i forget) and then they kick it away (or try for a 2 pointer...or is it a 1 pointer..who knows, who cares, it's fun!)

You are describing Rugby League, btw. You get six tackles. But, as in the NFL, teams will kick on the final tackle to avoid a turnover. It's four points for a try (a score like a touchdown), two more for a converted try (like an extra point). Two for a penalty (a place kick awarded for an infraction by the defending team). One for a drop-goal (a drop-kick that can be attempted at any time during live play, but usually only used late in the game when it's likely to be the deciding score).

League is the dominant form of the game in the north of England and in Australia. New Zealand is really the only other country that plays league at a world class level. Union is the alternative code, and is the more popular sport worldwide.

Both forms of the game have serious head injury problems that they are only beginning to take seriously.
   1285. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:10 PM (#5537397)
He's decided that when people criticize him he's going to respond in kind.

I'm sorry. Which of the SOBs (his words) who kneel during the anthem attacked him?


I see what you did there. I was talking specifically about Curry's criticism of him.
   1286. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5537398)
But I'm far more concerned with the President of the US telling owners of private busnisses that they should fire employees for expressing political opinions.

Last week the mayor of NYC told John Jay college it should fire its "economics" professor for expressing a political opinion.

Granted John Jay is a public college, but still.


Here's the learned opinion that John Jay professor tweeted, as reported in the NY Post:

The head of the city’s largest police union is calling for the firing of a John Jay College professor after he tweeted “it’s a privilege to teach future dead cops.”

Professor Michael Isaacson, a self-proclaimed member of the Antifa movement who works in the economics department at the CUNY Manhattan college, tweeted from the account @VulgarEconomics: “Some of ya’ll might think it sucks being an anti-fascist teaching at John Jay College but I think it’s a privilege to teach future dead cops” on Aug. 23.


I'm not shedding any tears for this professor, who was placed on administrative leave. Are you?
   1287. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:14 PM (#5537399)
I see what you did there. I was talking specifically about Curry's criticism of him.


Irrelevant. You defend Trump attacking and insulting people because they attacked him. But he also attacked and insulted people who didn't attack him, and he insulted their mothers. So, the defense that he counterpunches is not a blanket defense of him attacking people.
   1288. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:15 PM (#5537401)
I'm not shedding any tears for this professor, who was placed on administrative leave. Are you?


The issue wasn't the number of tears I'm shedding for this professor; the issue was a politician weighing in on who should be fired from their jobs.
   1289. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:16 PM (#5537402)
And how does he get off attacking their mothers? Oh right, the Uncle Leo defense.


Colin Kaepernick's mother, responding this afternoon:
"Guess that makes me a proud bitch!"
   1290. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:16 PM (#5537403)
Irrelevant. You defend Trump attacking and insulting people because they attacked him. But he also attacked and insulted people who didn't attack him, and he insulted their mothers. So, the defense that he counterpunches is not a blanket defense of him attacking people.


Why is it "irrelevant" that I was talking about Curry?

In any event, I haven't followed the reasons for Kaepernick's protests but I assumed Trump was one of them. Does Kaepernick's protesting of the anthem have nothing to do with Trump??
   1291. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:18 PM (#5537404)
the issue was a politician weighing in on who should be fired from their jobs.


Is there anything beneath Trump?
   1292. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:18 PM (#5537405)
Does Kaepernick's protesting of the anthem have nothing to do with Trump??


Don't know either way. Is it your contention that a political protest against the President deserves personally insulting the protester and his mother and calling for him to be fired?
   1293. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:19 PM (#5537407)
the issue was a politician weighing in on who should be fired from their jobs.


The issue was the President of the United States doing so.
   1294. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:24 PM (#5537411)
Does Kaepernick's protesting of the anthem have nothing to do with Trump??

Don't know either way.


Then what in the world are you carrying on by asking which of the players who kneel during the anthem attacked him? If he is a large target of their ire then, WTF is your point here?

Is it your contention that a political protest against the President deserves personally insulting the protester and his mother and calling for him to be fired?


Wait -- insulted his mother? Did Trump actually do that, or are you just being pedantic and exceedingly silly by focusing on the word "SOB"?

You can't be carrying on that Trump's usage of SOB is actually an insult of the player's mother, can you? If that were true that it is -- I can't believe we're talking about something so silly -- then Trump didn't actually insult the player at all; he insulted the player's mother. Which means you can no longer say that Trump attacked the player.

My word how silly this discussion is.

When A calls B an SOB A is simply insulting *B*, not B's mother. Everyone sane understands this.

But no I wouldn't advise that the POTUS personally attack a protester in this way. Neither will I shed a tear when people who want to fight a unilateral battle get attacked by their target in return. I don't see the value in a one-sided fight, where you can just level vicious attacks at someone and expect that the person will have to fight back with both hands tied behind his back by being muzzled in return. If that's your idea of fairness, I won't be joining you in it.

   1295. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:31 PM (#5537418)
When A calls B an SOB A is simply insulting *B*, not B's mother. Everyone sane understands this.


Nope. I have Puerto Rican friends who tell me that SOB is a top-shelf 5 alarm insult because it insinuates the mother, who is sacred in Puerto Rican society.
   1296. BDC Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:35 PM (#5537420)
Let's say you make a movie starring JLaw as an attorney or something. So a man could be in the lead role just the same, as the role itself is not gender dependent. The movie with JLaw grosses $100 million. But now let's say the same movie is made with Matt Damon. It makes $200 million.

Should Damon not be paid more for the same work? Audiences turn out for him more


This all sounds logical, but Hollywood is not a logical place. Star salaries are highly speculative, and the number of hit movies is a very small sample size; stars' reputations are volatile: I'd say your calculus is just about impossible to study objectively. If a film really makes huge money, the star's salary is going to be minuscule compared to the worldwide gross. So salary can get somewhat arbitrary, and is about prestige and positioning as much as ROI. (The Hunger Games movies took in something like $3 billion. So far. Lawrence earned ~$25M in salary for them, though I don't know if she also gets a continuing percentage.)

It's hard enough to figure out what to pay free-agent ballplayers, and we know their contributions down to a tenth of a win :) Suffice it to say that women have had legitimate complaints at the high end of the Hollywood pay scale for some time. It's a complaint you might want to break out a very small violin for, since at the very top it's about more money in a year than I could make in several lifetimes, but it's not an irrational complaint.
   1297. Ishmael Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5537422)
Does Kaepernick's protesting of the anthem have nothing to do with Trump??

I was under the impression that the anthem protests are about police violence, primarily, and racism.

To the extent that Trump is in favour of those things, he is a target. But Kaepernick's protest began before the election.
   1298. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:43 PM (#5537423)

I'm not shedding any tears for this professor, who was placed on administrative leave. Are you?


No one who misspells "y'all" deserves a job.
   1299. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:44 PM (#5537425)
the issue was a politician weighing in on who should be fired from their jobs.

The issue was the President of the United States doing so.


"Your Honor, everything about these two cases is different. Why, even the parties' names are different."
   1300. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 23, 2017 at 05:19 PM (#5537431)
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