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Monday, September 18, 2017

OTP 18 September 2017: Ex-Baseball Star Darryl Strawberry Criticizes Jemele Hill, Praises POTUS: Trump is ‘A Great Man’

“I think no one should call anyone anything. President Trump, he’s a great man to me. He was always gracious to me. I really love him, his family, I was on his show and he’s always been kind to me… I’ve known him quite well and every time I’ve seen him and been around him he’s always been so gracious with me and I’m always grateful for that.”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 18, 2017 at 07:53 AM | 1552 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: daryl strawberry, politics

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   301. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 02:25 PM (#5534518)
It's beyond bizarre that he doesn't think something like speed and quality of non-"death" related visits, or customer satisfaction with product and service provided, or peace of mind and confidence in care being provided, are important "metrics."


This is typically you, ie. a lie. I never claimed anything like it. Those things are part of the equation of course. I found two metrics and pointed to them. How about you find some metrics that represent your case (USA! USA! USA! USA!) and you link to them? It is not my job to find every significant metric in the world and link to it. Promise.
   302. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 19, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5534519)
This is typically you, ie. a lie. I never claimed anything like it.


And this is typically you; saying something and then claiming to be misunderstood.

You asked for some more metrics, and I just listed some. They actually weren't even that hard to come up with for anyone playing it straight and I'm sure even a smidgen of effort could generate some more.

represent your case (USA! USA! USA! USA!)


That isn't my "case," as anyone who has read anything I've written on the topic would know. You're again being reductionist and silly.
   303. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 02:32 PM (#5534522)
And this is typically you; saying something and then claiming to be misunderstood.


I am not claiming I am misunderstood. I am stating you lied. Those are very different.

You asked for some more metrics, and I just listed some. They actually weren't even that hard to come up with for anyone playing it straight and I'm sure even a smidgen of effort could generate some more.


A few weeks ago you misused the term metric and now it is clear you really don't understand it. You should look up the meaning. Also you don't read well. I want you to find a metric and link to it. Show your work.

Or concede the issue. Either way.
   304. BrianBrianson Posted: September 19, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5534526)
No. The question is how good our health care is.


I mean, yes, but you don't ask that question. You replace "urgency" with "someone's definition of urgency", you replace "crippled" with (I'm not sure - you seem to have wholly defined it away), you replace "good treatment" with "a treatment that might once work for somebody, somewhere".

What makes health care good? How good your health outcomes are (with "death" an obvious worst case that comparatively easily measured"), how much you pay for it, how many people have access (and to some extent wait times, though that's really a piece within health outcomes.

Virtually nobody wants a choice of treatments - they want the best treatment to be available. That already incorporates the idea of "for them". Trying to pretend otherwise is too obviously disingenuous and dumb for you to pull it off. Wait times importance does depend on "for what" - if we all wait a week for warts to be removed, but all get appendectomies within ten minutes, it's much better than if we have a fifty-fifty chance of waiting a week or ten minutes for any given visit. It's no different than "how many people die?" vs "how many people are left with minor scars?" are both asking questions that matter, but don't matter nearly equally.
   305. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 19, 2017 at 02:42 PM (#5534529)
I am stating you lied.


Yeah, you say that a lot, too, and are never right about it.

Also you don't read well. I want you to find a metric and link to it. Show your work.


No, thanks. I named the metrics. If you want to educate yourself further about them, be my guest.
   306. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 02:43 PM (#5534530)
'm a fake doctor and haven't researched the issue, but I feel that they do hurt you, by weakening your immune system. I let my body fight off any colds or flu on its own, without preemptive help. I very rarely get sick.


Most people don't realize this so don't take it too hard. You feeling sick -- all the symptoms there of -- is a RESULT of your immune system working. When your cells get infected (by either a virus or a bacteria) your immune system basically runs scorched earth on anything and everything it thinks might be infected. For certain types of viral infections you gain a "permanent" resistance to future infection by something with the same immune signature. This is how vaccines (like the flu shot work). Inflammation (i.e your immune system being "strong") is a huge factor in severity and mortality for basically all diseases. But obviously it has served evolution well (which means - getting humans to survive long enough to birth and raise the next generation).

Probably you never get sick because you are not really exposed to infections.

Finally another horrible fallacy is your assumption that your situation (level of exposure, innate resistance to infection) MIGHT not apply to everyone else. Your personal genetics and environment are different.
   307. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 19, 2017 at 02:53 PM (#5534536)
What makes health care good? How good your health outcomes are (with "death" an obvious worst case that comparatively easily measured"), how much you pay for it, how many people have access


Actually, that last one has nothing to do with whether health care is good for any particular consumer. It's a question that goes to distributive justice, not service quality.

I've been to my doctor a few times in the last few weeks and the quality of service I've gotten is an 11 on a 10-point scale. Extremely educated and competent doctors, with good personalities that engender confidence, with whom I've had a positive relationship for 10-plus years, and quick and efficient and high-quality responses. Who have also been spot-on with specialists to whom they've referred me here and there over my generally healthy past decade.

World-class in every particular. Could I get this in England or France or Holland or Germany or Canada? Maybe. But the question for people similarly-situated to me is: "Why take the risk?" To pretend that isn't a very real question politically and socially is ... well, it's quite odd.

The downside for me is that the service runs with my employment, so if the employment goes, the service could, too. I obviously agree that the insurance system is too dependent on employment, which is an unfortunate legacy of how the modern system came to be in the US.
   308. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 02:54 PM (#5534537)
It is many things. It is education, research, labs, care coordination and so on.
No, that's not right. Those are inputs. The proper measure of health care (or anything else) is outputs, not inputs.

No, I am explicitly saying it. I choose two metrics we can compare: health care costs and total life expectancy. I never claimed they were the only two metrics, there are more, but those two are significant. They are not "random" as you spuriously claimed and have since clearly tried to back off of. I don't blame you, it was a dumb claim on your part. I would try to distract from it as well had I said something so dumb.
No, they're random. Nobody who was making non-frivolous arguments about health care would cite cost+life expectancy as their measure, and then when caught say, "Oh, uh, I didn't mean there weren't other metrics; I just forgot to use them."

And if you want to claim that cost and life expectancy don't relate at all to a discussion of health care system efficacy and efficiency ... well go for it. Give it a try.
In fact, I will indeed say that life expectancy is a pretty poor measure of health care. If you look at international rankings, the top countries (yes, including the U.S.) are all close together. Of course there's a huge gap down to places like sub-Saharan Africa. The quality of treatment one receives plays only a small role in the differences.
   309. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5534540)
represent your case (USA! USA! USA! USA!)


Claiming that the US doesn't have one of the best health care systems in the world is batshit anti-Americanism.

It didn't cover everyone the elites on the left and the right wanted it to cover. Whether that was a "problem" with the system depends on one's ideology, but it didn't mean the system was broken per se. It was one of hte best in the world. Granted it could have stood to be improved, and greatly -- and still of course could -- but not in the way the left wants.
   310. Lassus Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5534541)
I've been to my doctor a few times in the last few weeks and the quality of service I've gotten is an 11 on a 10-point scale. World-class in every particular.
Could I get this in England or France or Holland or Germany or Canada? Maybe.

Now there's a compelling conclusion.
   311. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5534543)
The EC is a bizarre anachronism which I have never liked aesthetically but we are assuredly stuck with unless the government completely collapses and we have another convention.

Part of the sillyness is the winner-take-all aspect, so I would be fine with replacing it with allocation based on district. Although it should really be 1 vote per 200,000 people. Which would give CA 191 votes to WY's 3.

How about this - since clearly low pop states need more services maybe if they want to keep their out-sized federal power they should pay some extra "proportional representation tax". Although I suspect this requires congressional super-majorities so it's probably irrelevant.


I think the actual, beyond-any-argument anachronism of the EC is that we still bother with "electors" and actually having the electoral college meet to "vote".

Make a case that the nature of the Republic still demands the proportional 'points scoring' if you like, but bothering with the whole charade of actually slating electors and having them "vote" is stupid.

The whole point of the actual EC was that some group of wise and knowing individuals would prevent a boob loved by rubes from becoming President. If the EC cannot prevent a Trump, then there is literally no purpose or point for it anymore.

Just score the "points" based on the individual state votes and be done with it.

It's utterly stupid to keep actual EC if it's just a pro forma rubber stamp.
   312. BDC Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5534546)
What makes health care good?

People will clearly have lots of different answers. I go to two MDs regularly, internal-medicine and ophthalmology. I like these doctors because they read my chart carefully, talk a lot with me, and never let me leave the office without scheduling a return visit – which could be a year off if there's nothing much wrong with me, but it gets on both our calendars. I get the impression that both are monitoring my health. They might forget me 30 seconds later, they might go home and laugh about what a stupid old man I am, but they humor me while I'm in the office.

I've had internists who would simply never schedule routine visits, would be hard to see if you were sick, and if you were quite sick would just say "go to the ER," which actually shouldn't be the first stop unless you are actively at risk of life or limb. They might be good MDs (good diagnosticians, knowledgeable about treatment), but their panels are too large and their approach to overall health reactive instead of proactive.

The American medical system often promotes the latter approach, and to that extent isn't as good as systems which promote the former (ie you have to be pretty lucky with your choice of doctor to get consistent proactive care). That's my two cents. Y'all's will surely differ.
   313. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:05 PM (#5534548)
The most obvious reform, replacing the winner-take-all allocation, can even be done by individual states under the current system.

Isn't the most obvious reform* the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact?

In the original context "obvious" included ease of accomplishing. Any state can modify its use of the winner-take-all method by changing state law through the normal legislative process. Maine and Nebraska have already done so. The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact requires states with a majority of the electoral votes to act, and like other interstate compacts would require approval of Congress. Additionally, the states that are perceived as benefiting from the current system have no incentive to join. Thus, its highly unlikely that anything ever comes from the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact effort.
   314. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:05 PM (#5534549)
Virtually nobody wants a choice of treatments - they want the best treatment to be available.


This is frankly a statement that a child would make.

By which I don't mean an immature person. I mean an uninformed person. By which I don't mean one who hasn't been informed by the facts yet; I mean one whose intelligence and knowledge hasn't formed yet.

Which treatment is "best" depends on one's goals. If we take cancer treatments for example, does one want to merely be comfortable until one dies? Does one want to undergo a greater risk for a greater chance at a cure? Does one want to undergo a risky surgery for a greater chance at a cure? Does one want to participate in a clinical trial? These are all options that a good system would present.
   315. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:06 PM (#5534550)
There is something to be said for the negative correlation of national population and life expectancy, but I am pretty sure that "the number of people bringing down the average" is absolutely not an explanation for this, but I suppose it depends on the shape of the distribution. In pro sports we only care about the TAIL of the distribution... so unless you are saying that the bigger countries outliers are strongly skewed towards "dying early" (which could be shown, I suppose), I am not buying this.

Really is the US more like China, Russia, Japan, Germany, or United Kingdom? Those are all large, developed countries. Japan may be an outlier because of genetic and cultural homogeneity, but Germany is 24th and the UK is 20th. As noted above, China is 53 and Russia 110. I think you would also have to consider separately infant mortality from these rankings, and throw in whatever else you could quantify. And also not use averages. Smoking, Drinking and Drug use rates probably relevant. Genetics possibly relevant, although big countries are ususally reasonably diverse. What happens when you fractionate these metrics by economic quintiles?

You do often see simple charts of health care expenditures as a function of "outcome" ... but this isn't really showing the distribution of expenditures. One could imagine the top 5% (in wealth) of US citizens throwing this off quite a bit.

Life expectancy is a classic "trap" metric. It's easy to calculate and interpret. Ditto expenditure/GDP or whatever. Still when ALL that information points to the US Health system being wildly inefficient, I think the burden of proof is on the defenders of said system.

Hey, maybe like Earth Sciences there is some stubborn minority in Public Health researchers that believe that the US system is ideal.
   316. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:06 PM (#5534551)
The system almost certainly costs more than it should because we compensate private non-providing bureaucrats quite handsomely to compete for business. The competition for business is wasteful.
   317. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:07 PM (#5534552)
261

Would No Reasonable Prosecutor bring it?


Do you always answer a question with a question?
   318. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:08 PM (#5534554)
What makes health care good? How good your health outcomes are (with "death" an obvious worst case that comparatively easily measured"), how much you pay for it, how many people have access (and to some extent wait times, though that's really a piece within health outcomes.
We mostly agree. But everyone dies, and it's rarely attributable to health care.

Virtually nobody wants a choice of treatments - they want the best treatment to be available.
That's not even true on its own terms. If you have an injury, you may want rehab, you may want surgery. It's not based on which is "best," but on a mix of tradeoffs.
That already incorporates the idea of "for them".
You miss the point. You can't have the treatment best for you unless there is a choice of treatments available. Each of us only needs one thing on the restaurant menu that we want to eat -- but since we want different things, we need a menu with choices. (Of course, what treatment is best for you may not be an issue of choice, but of biology, but that doesn't change the point.)
Wait times importance does depend on "for what" - if we all wait a week for warts to be removed, but all get appendectomies within ten minutes, it's much better than if we have a fifty-fifty chance of waiting a week or ten minutes for any given visit. It's no different than "how many people die?" vs "how many people are left with minor scars?" are both asking questions that matter, but don't matter nearly equally.
In assessing the quality of health care as a whole -- or the quality of anything, really -- one cannot focus solely on the severity of the problem to the exclusion of the frequency of the problem. (And of course there are lots of things between the severity of appendicitis and a wart.)
   319. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:08 PM (#5534555)
Oh by the way - my personal opinion on flu shots is that I am happy to get one as long as my effort to do so is minimal. Basically I will go across the street at lunch to get one (if I remember), or if they have a kiosk set up when I am already at the doctors/medical center for some other reason.
   320. BrianBrianson Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:15 PM (#5534562)
Which treatment is "best" depends on one's goals. I


This is frankly a statement a disingenuous moron who can't speak English would make. "Best has a meaning that's too complicated for me to understand, so I'll pretend it means nothing at all" is not an argument. "Cancers" are a lot of things, and so the best treatment will vary for individual cancers - but for a skin cancer that's easily removed, say, having the option to remain comfortable until death is not valuable. If one uses the ordinary, everyday meaning of the word "best", this "counter" makes no sense at all.

Options for their own sake aren't valuable. Options because they represent the best treatment for different circumstances are valuable - because they represent the best treatment.
   321. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:16 PM (#5534564)

The problem with flu shots is not that they're going to make you autistic or weaken your immune system or whatever; the problem is that they don't work particularly well. Polio is polio; it's easy to vaccinate against. But the flu is not a single pathogen that can be successfully inoculated against. They just guess what they think will be the right strain to attack in a given year, and they don't guess all that well, so getting the shot doesn't prevent you from getting the flu.
   322. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5534565)
In fact, I will indeed say that life expectancy is a pretty poor measure of health care.


But it's *A* measure. ( Although I appreciate the anti-symmetry with the IQ arguments we so often have). What is the evidence that the US system does produce better outcomes?

But everyone dies, and it's rarely attributable to health care.


Wait a minute here. Can we agree that life extension is a measurable goal of health care? Let's say, someone has cancer (someone on this very board...). Untreated, they die (on average) in 2 years. Treated, they die (on average) in 10 years. This effect is DIRECTLY attributable to health care, no? (Let's just factor out "quality of life" for those years for now).
   323. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5534566)
Options for their own sake aren't valuable. Options because they represent the best treatment for different circumstances are valuable - because they represent the best treatment.


Oh, come now -- don't be silly. A 50 year old non-athlete tears his ACL mowing the lawn -- probably no surgery. Steph Curry tears his ACL tomorrow -- obviously surgery.

There are very few things that have an automatic "best treatment."
   324. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5534567)
They just guess what they think will be the right strain to attack in a given year, and they don't guess all that well, so getting the shot doesn't prevent you from getting the flu


You have a citation for this? EDIT: I agree that they DO guess, but I am disputing that the don't guess well enough to prevent a significant number of infections).
   325. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:20 PM (#5534568)

"Cancers" are a lot of things, and so the best treatment will vary for individual cancers
Do you get surgery, or chemo? Or both? Which drug do you use?


Options for their own sake aren't valuable. Options because they represent the best treatment for different circumstances are valuable - because they represent the best treatment.
Your first statement isn't true, but even if it were, it would be unimportant, because of the second statement. Options are valuable because if you don't have options, then you might not have the best treatment for you.
   326. BDC Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:21 PM (#5534570)
I'm not sure how this "options" discussion arose. Is it people's impression that you go to a doctor in Germany or France and are only offered a single state-approved course of action, or something? :)
   327. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:21 PM (#5534572)
You have a citation for this? EDIT: I agree that they DO guess, but I am disputing that the don't guess well enough to prevent a significant number of infections).
No, they do prevent a significant number, but that's very different than the vaccinations we usually get for other diseases, which prevent almost all.
   328. BrianBrianson Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:21 PM (#5534573)
You miss the point. You can't have the treatment best for you unless there is a choice of treatments available. Each of us only needs one thing on the restaurant menu that we want to eat -- but since we want different things, we need a menu with choices. (Of course, what treatment is best for you may not be an issue of choice, but of biology, but that doesn't change the point.)


No, this isn't remotely true. Unless you're a hypochondriac, you don't want worse medical treatment because it's quirkier. Having trepanning, or homeopathy, or leeches available to treat syphilis does not make a medical system better. The substitute argument here that different conditions may need different treatments doesn't make choices inherently better. For any given injury/illness/condition, whether the best treatment is available matters - and if it is, I don't care that I could've have worse treatment.

In assessing the quality of health care as a whole -- or the quality of anything, really -- one cannot focus solely on the severity of the problem to the exclusion of the frequency of the problem. (And of course there are lots of things between the severity of appendicitis and a wart.)


Sure, this is certainly true.
   329. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:22 PM (#5534574)
Which treatment is "best" depends on one's goals. If we take cancer treatments for example, does one want to merely be comfortable until one dies? Does one want to undergo a greater risk for a greater chance at a cure? Does one want to undergo a risky surgery for a greater chance at a cure? Does one want to participate in a clinical trial? These are all options that a good system would present.


Do you contend that a single-payer system necessitates these choices being removed?
   330. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5534576)
If a Premier League guy rips up his knee, does he typically get surgery through NHS?

What's the mechanism there whereby the best surgeons are assigned to the most valuable knees? Obviously, first dibs on the best knee surgeons should be guys like Harry Kane, and not some 50-year-old estate housing slob whose most strenuous activity is walking a block to the pub for bangers and mash.
   331. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5534577)
you don't want worse medical treatment because it's quirkier.
You may want different medical treatment (calling it "worse" begs the question) because the side effects are different. Or because the treatment which offers the likely better outcome also has a higher risk of a bad outcome. (In a given situation surgery may cure you in a way that drugs wouldn't -- but there's the greater risk of dying during surgery.)
   332. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5534578)
No, they do prevent a significant number, but that's very different than the vaccinations we usually get for other diseases, which prevent almost all.


Well not the mumps vaccines they gave out in the early 70s (at least in CA). But OK sure getting a flu shot is not a social/moral imperative like getting your MMR shots.
   333. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5534580)
Well not the mumps vaccines they gave out in the early 70s (at least in CA). But OK sure getting a flu shot is not a social/moral imperative like getting your MMR shots.
That's all I was saying. My attitude is kind of like what you said above: if there's no effort to me in getting the shot, fine. But I'm not going to go out of my way to get it just for a partial reduction in the chance of getting the flu, whereas I would do so to avoid getting smallpox.
   334. Lassus Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:29 PM (#5534581)
A 50 year old non-athlete tears his ACL mowing the lawn -- probably no surgery.

I haven't torn my ACL, but live with someone who did in their late 40s. It was quite painful at the start and then lingered painfully as other incorrect diagnoses and treatments were used, and surgery was required to end that pain. I admit not knowing how ubiquitous that is per ACL tear, but I'm guessing if YOU tear your ACL, you'd certainly opt for surgery.
   335. Lassus Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5534582)
But I'm not going to go out of my way to get it just for a partial reduction in the chance of getting the flu

Also a great seatbelt strategy.
   336. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5534584)
whereby the *best* surgeons are assigned to the most valuable knees


I think this is an interesting comment. "Best" surgeon, "good" doctor. I mean it would be our expectation that there is some variance in MD performance - but I question as to whether this is a significant factor at the scale of a health care system. What is the difference in outcomes between a good, mediocre, or bad orthopedic surgeon? Should the best ones get assigned to the most difficult cases? Donald Trump and Steph Curry both probably have the means to to procure the "best" knee surgeon... but obviously one needs a good knee more than the other.


I kind of feel the same way about trial lawyers, where the performance difference seems like it must be greater.
   337. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:35 PM (#5534585)
I admit not knowing how ubiquitous that is per ACL tear, but I'm guessing if YOU tear your ACL, you'd certainly opt for surgery.


I have a friend who tore his at around age 30 in a Fake Lawyers League basketball game and opted not to have surgery. No issues, beyond not skiing anymore.

Yes, if I had tore mine at 30, I would have had surgery -- and would today -- but I'm athletic.
   338. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:36 PM (#5534588)
What is the difference in outcomes between a good, mediocre, or bad orthopedic surgeon?


Ask Bernard King. Or Billy Sims. Or the kid in Hoop Dreams who had a hack arthroscopic job in the mid-90s from which he was never really the same.
   339. BDC Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:37 PM (#5534589)
Is Steph Curry OK?
   340. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:45 PM (#5534592)
With eight days to go, the Alabama Senate do-over GOP primary-- in which the incumbent Senator has been prominently and emphatically backed by both the President and the Majority Leader-- currently has a price tag of almost $6 million. This doesn't count money spent on the original GOP primary, which brings the total over $10 million.

The spending total also doesn't count the cost of flying in Donald Trump this Saturday to personally campaign on behalf of Luther Strange.

Nor does any of that money include one dime towards the general election, which will be against a Democrat who recently trailed one of the two Republicans by just 4% and the other by 3%. The closest Alabama Senate race in the past two decades (for either seat) was a 19% GOP win, in 2002. The average margin over the last 20 years of Alabama Senate elections was 27% (or 37%, if you include the unopposed year).

Senator Strange trails Roy Moore in a totally normal and not at all worrisome development. Fortunately, none of this, let alone a loss for Strange, would have any effect on any other Republican Senators currently expected to have an easy ride in next year's GOP primaries.

Anyway, whatever it ends up costing Republicans to hold onto one of their safest seats for one-half of a term, it's worth it!
   341. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:45 PM (#5534593)
Ask Bernard King. Or Billy Sims. Or the kid in Hoop Dreams who had a hack arthroscopic job in the mid-90s from which he was never really the same.


This post seems like it needs some stats.
   342. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:46 PM (#5534594)
Would No Reasonable Prosecutor bring it?

Do you always answer a question with a question?


Only when I'm pretending to be Jewish.

Obligatory:

Meanwhile, in the kitchen, Martin complains to Niles.

Martin: I don't know how to be Jewish.
Niles: Well, just answer questions with a question.
Martin: Like what?
Niles: What, I have to explain everything?
Martin: Can't you give me an example?
Niles: What, I should give you an example?
Martin: Are you going to help me or not?
Niles: You're saying I'm not being helpful?
Martin: Oh, forget it!

Frasier pours the wine.

Niles: Wait, Frasier, is that for Helen?
Frasier: Yes.
Niles: What if she's expecting Jewish wine?
Frasier: Gosh, I'm afraid I don't have any of that on hand.
Niles: It's all right, it's easy enough. It's just like regular
wine plus a little bit of this...

Niles takes some sugar and puts two teaspoons into the glass.

Niles: Try that.
Frasier: [he does] It's dreadful!
Niles: Perfect.

Frasier: I don't know how much longer we can continue this charade.
My God, when Dad started talking about working on his own
car I thought we were goners!

Martin and Niles enter the living room.

Helen: So, Marty, both your sons are doctors. How'd you work that
out?
Martin: I've no idea. [then]... Do I?

   343. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:52 PM (#5534598)

It's weird, because I totally don't remember the libs here mocking YC for posting polls during the last election season.
   344. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:55 PM (#5534600)
I admit not knowing how ubiquitous that is per ACL tear, but I'm guessing if YOU tear your ACL, you'd certainly opt for surgery.

I had a friend who tore his ACL in March or April. He eventually had the surgery, but waited till the end of the summer, cause he didn't want to spend the summer hobbling around. He could do a lot, swim, he could jog even. No sports though. If he was 50, he might not have had the surgery.
   345. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:55 PM (#5534601)
Which treatment is "best" depends on one's goals. If we take cancer treatments for example, does one want to merely be comfortable until one dies? Does one want to undergo a greater risk for a greater chance at a cure? Does one want to undergo a risky surgery for a greater chance at a cure? Does one want to participate in a clinical trial? These are all options that a good system would present.

Do you contend that a single-payer system necessitates these choices being removed?


No. I contend -- note that I was responding to a specific comment -- that people DO want a choice of treatments and therefore that the "best choice" has a subjective component regarding what the patient's goals and wishes are.

The comment I was responding to:

"Virtually nobody wants a choice of treatments - they want the best treatment to be available."
   346. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 19, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5534603)
Ask Bernard King. Or Billy Sims. Or the kid in Hoop Dreams who had a hack arthroscopic job in the mid-90s from which he was never really the same.


This post seems like it needs some stats.


Bernard King averaged 32.9 points per game before he tore his ACL.
   347. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:00 PM (#5534604)
Which treatment is "best" depends on one's goals. I

This is frankly a statement a disingenuous moron who can't speak English would make. "Best has a meaning that's too complicated for me to understand, so I'll pretend it means nothing at all" is not an argument. "Cancers" are a lot of things, and so the best treatment will vary for individual cancers - but for a skin cancer that's easily removed, say, having the option to remain comfortable until death is not valuable. If one uses the ordinary, everyday meaning of the word "best", this "counter" makes no sense at all.


Do you think if you yell and scream it will lift your argument out of frivolousness?
   348. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:04 PM (#5534608)
Do you think if you yell and scream it will lift your argument out of frivolousness?


Obviously we need to ask Fraser who gets what treatment.
   349. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:04 PM (#5534609)
That's all I was saying. My attitude is kind of like what you said above: if there's no effort to me in getting the shot, fine. But I'm not going to go out of my way to get it just for a partial reduction in the chance of getting the flu, whereas I would do so to avoid getting smallpox.


You monster. How many old people will have to die because you didn't get your shot?
   350. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:07 PM (#5534611)
At least Ray has stopped defending his "larger countries have a hard time with health care" contention and I see his "flu shots are a cult" has also been mysteriously left behind, so progress.

It is sad I consider less outright stupidity to be progress, but there you go.
   351. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:08 PM (#5534613)
But I'm not going to go out of my way to get it just for a partial reduction in the chance of getting the flu

Also a great seatbelt strategy.


Indeed I went without a seatbelt for roughly 35 out of my 44 years. Then when NYC kept fining me up the wazoo for not wearing one they finally broke me down.

The chances of ever needing a seatbelt are miniscule. Granted if you don't wear one and get into an accident you could die -- or not, though I agree having one on is much better on average if you're in an accident -- but for the vast majority of people a seatbelt won't prove life saving or life altering.

Unfortunately the state interfered with my ability to make my own decision, stupid or not.
   352. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:08 PM (#5534614)
I see his "flu shots are a cult" has also been mysteriously left behind


Flu shots really gum up his circuit boards.
   353. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:09 PM (#5534616)
Obviously we need to ask Fraser who gets what treatment.


Spelling.
   354. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:10 PM (#5534617)
At least Ray has stopped defending his "larger countries have a hard time with health care" contention and I see his "flu shots are a cult" has also been mysteriously left behind, so progress.


Stop misrepresenting. I haven't changed my opinion on these things.
   355. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:22 PM (#5534627)
Spelling.


No. Brendan Fraser. Not your silly sit-com obsession, Niles.
   356. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:23 PM (#5534628)
For example, sure. It's so pathetic, lots of people there can't even speak English.


Thgose French have a different word for everything.
   357. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:24 PM (#5534629)
David N, #343:
It's weird, because I totally don't remember the libs here mocking YC for posting polls during the last election season.


David N may also not totally remember all manner of poll postings and polling discussions from numerous people during the last election season. And the election seasons before that. Many of these discussions were even instigated by "libs."

YC gets mocked for his polling zest because of the way that his updating energy waxes and wanes. I've posted numerous polling and playing field assessments that were bad news for libs. But when the polls go south for conservs, Clapper suddenly loses interest and turns his attentions to the apocalyptic internecine savagery on the California left.

And the more strange Moore-Strange Alabama runoff is still a laugh and a half. It's just as entertaining even if the Republican establishment manages to claw its way back into the general election.
   358. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:28 PM (#5534631)
Stop misrepresenting. I haven't changed my opinion on these things.


My apologies. I will stop misrepresenting your dumb opinion. You apparently still believe - for no reason at all - that health care doesn't scale in larger countries. For reasons.

My faith in humanity has betrayed me again.

Do you still believe getting a flu shot is "a cult" (or however you put it)? I wouldn't want to misrepresent that.
   359. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:28 PM (#5534632)
Since I'm all about creating unforgettable polling memories for David:

538.com: Trump’s Popularity Has Dipped Most In Red States:
Trump’s continued popularity in the Midwest (relatively speaking) is important because (i) there are a ton of Electoral College votes in those states, and (ii) it shows that Democrats still have a problem there. That may also mean that Clinton didn’t lose the election because she was uniquely unpopular in key swing states. (She likely didn’t lose Wisconsin, for example, because she didn’t campaign there, as some have argued.) Trump may just have outsized appeal in the Midwest. Or perhaps the region — which used to lean slightly more Democratic than the nation as a whole — has simply become more Republican-leaning relative to the country. That trend could have little to do with Clinton or Trump.

Instead, Trump has seen a disproportionate decline in his popularity in red states. …There’s a clear negative correlation… In states where Trump won by at least 10 points, his net approval rating is down 18 percentage points, on average, compared to his margin last November. In states that were decided by 10 points or less in November, it’s down only 13 points. And it’s down 8 points in states Clinton carried by at least 10 points.

The fact that Trump has lost the greatest number of supporters in red states is perhaps the clearest indication yet that he is losing ground among some form of his base, if you think of his base as those who voted for him in November

…It’s possible that the polls are merely underestimating Trump in these red states. Trump most outperformed his polling in 2016 in red states. Maybe that’s happening again. That said, he also beat his polls in Midwestern states, and he’s holding his own (relatively speaking) there, which argues that his red-state decline can’t be written off only as polling error.

…Trump was able to win in 2016 in large part because he was able to win a decent share of the vote among people who held an unfavorable view of him… So perhaps what we’re seeing isn’t a decline in Trump’s support in conservative states, but rather a reflection of its weakness from the start: Red-state voters who pulled the lever for Trump but didn’t like him, still don’t like him.

What will be interesting to see is how many of these red-state voters who dislike Trump now will be willing to vote for Republicans in 2018 without Clinton on the ballot. Off-year elections, like those coming up in 2018, are usually a referendum on the party in power. We’ve already seen that Democrats have been able to do well in special elections this year, as Trump’s approval ratings have slumped. We’ve also seen that House Republicans are picking up very few supporters among people who disapprove of Trump’s job performance in national polling. That is, there aren’t a lot of voters who dislike Trump and are still willing to say they’re going to vote Republican.

If red state voters who dislike Trump but voted for him in 2016 abandon the Republican Party in 2018, it could lead to some unexpected electoral results. It’s another reason that Democrats, if they want to maximize their chances of winning back the House, should compete in a wide variety of districts.

Yeah, they totally should.
   360. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:30 PM (#5534634)
And the more strange Moore-Strange Alabama runoff is still a laugh and a half. It's just as entertaining even if the Republican establishment manages to claw its way back into the general election.


Yeah, the whole thing is total popcorn material. Not my circus, not my monkeys. But I get to laugh at whatever choice the good citizens of Alabama make, though I certainly respect their freedom to choose as their representative whoever they want within the rules of the game.
   361. BrianBrianson Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:31 PM (#5534635)
Stop misrepresenting. I haven't changed my opinion on these things.


No, you just realised it's too dumb and too obviously conterfactual to keep defending.
   362. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5534637)
Even the 9th Circuit recognizes Freedom of Soda:
A U.S. appeals court sided with the beverage industry on Tuesday, granting its request to block a San Francisco ordinance mandating health warnings for soda and other sugary drinks.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that San Francisco’s ordinance unfairly targeted one group of products. The plaintiffs, including the American Beverage Association and the California Retailers Association, were likely to succeed with their claim that the ordinance was unjustified and violated commercial speech under the First Amendment, the court ruled.

Text of the ruling here.
   363. PepTech Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:33 PM (#5534638)
At least Ray has stopped defending his "larger countries have a hard time with health care" contention and I see his "flu shots are a cult" has also been mysteriously left behind, so progress.

Stop misrepresenting. I haven't changed my opinion on these things.
No one said you changed your opinion. The term was "stopped defending". You haven't responded to #267, so you've "stopped defending".

ETA: And what Brian, Son of Brian said.
   364. madvillain Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:33 PM (#5534639)
I'm an interesting case. Two ruptured patella tendons at 31 playing tennis, athletic history, wanted to keep being athletic. Didn't have insurance at the time. I'm 50k in debt but I had one of the best surgeons in the PNW do the repair -- probably because I was a "prestige" job, as there's only about a dozen bilateral ruptures in the US in any given year to get some live bullet practice on: and after weight loss, a ton of work in the gym and on the track I'm as athletic and active as I was prior to the injuries, and have no real lasting pain beyond the usual aches of being athletic in middle age.

So I had a great outcome other than the crushing debt. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it. I wish I had had insurance, but if I had had insurance I might have had a shittier surgeon and had to have waited for the repairs -- a critical component of a successful outcome, or the most successful outcome possible, is having the repairs done immediately while the tendons are still relatively stretchy. I had my repairs done less than 24 hours after the ruptures. Quite a few people I've talked to online have had to wait weeks or even a month or more.

I have no context to place this in, just wanted to throw it out as a real life case in the medical world.
   365. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:34 PM (#5534640)
Trump was able to win in 2016 in large part because he was able to win a decent share of the vote among people who held an unfavorable view of him… So perhaps what we’re seeing isn’t a decline in Trump’s support in conservative states, but rather a reflection of its weakness from the start: Red-state voters who pulled the lever for Trump but didn’t like him, still don’t like him.


Obsessive poll watchers: Pay very close attention to this paragraph.
   366. PepTech Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5534641)
Indeed I went without a seatbelt for roughly 35 out of my 44 years. Then when NYC kept fining me up the wazoo for not wearing one they finally broke me down.

The chances of ever needing a seatbelt are miniscule. Granted if you don't wear one and get into an accident you could die -- or not, though I agree having one on is much better on average if you're in an accident -- but for the vast majority of people a seatbelt won't prove life saving or life altering.

Unfortunately the state interfered with my ability to make my own decision, stupid or not.
The state didn't interfere with anything - it was your free will to stop risking the fine.
   367. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5534642)
Shorter #357: Internal GOP fights in Alabama are worth noting; internal Democratic fights in California aren't.
   368. PepTech Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5534643)
Madvillain - Roberts? He did the UCLs on my two sons...
   369. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5534646)
Shorter #357: Internal GOP fights in Alabama are worth noting; internal Democratic fights in California aren't.


One fight is going to result in not much of anything. The other seems likely to result in someone who is the avowed enemy of the Senate Leader being elected running against someone endorsed by the President and leader of the GOP, but only after millions of dollars are spent.

So sure, one is much more watchable than the other. The OJ trial was more watchable than your typical traffic court as well.

EDIT: I initially wrote Speaker, I meant Senate leader. My mistake.
   370. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:43 PM (#5534648)
No one said you changed your opinion. The term was "stopped defending".


And I didn't say he said I changed my opinion. I said he misrepresented that I had. The term was "misrepresenting."
   371. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:44 PM (#5534649)
And I didn't say he said I changed my opinion. I said he misrepresented that I had.


And in any event I apologized.
   372. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:47 PM (#5534651)
The state didn't interfere with anything - it was your free will to stop risking the fine.


Lol. So if the state were to fine women for having abortions you'd argue that the state hadn't "interfered with anything"?

Somehow I doubt it.

Why embarrass yourself with a frivolous argument here? To what end?

   373. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5534652)
madvillain that is interesting. I don't 100% know what to make of it, but I am glad you are seemingly happy with the outcome and best wishes. That is a ton of money, but money is supposed to be spent.

My understanding is in many countries you can still have that sort of procedure done if you are willing to pay for it (as you did), but I admit I am not an expert on the details of other nations health care.
   374. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5534653)
One fight is going to result in not much of anything. The other seems likely to result in someone who is the avowed enemy of the Senate Leader being elected running against someone endorsed by the President and leader of the GOP, but only after millions of dollars are spent.

Bitter Mouse predicts the future yet again. Well, with his track record we should certainly only follow what he tells us is important. Oh, wait . . .
   375. PepTech Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:53 PM (#5534655)
Was there some post other than #350? Hard to tell, sometimes there are post-edits that don't get credited.

Regardless of what Mouse has or has not posted, and/or has or has not apologized for, you've stopped defending your indefensible position from #233 that appears to claim some sort of correlation between life expectancy and population rank. If this summary misrepresents your thinking, please illuminate with my apologies. Or continue with the silence; we all know what that means.
   376. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5534656)
but I admit I am not an expert on the details of other nations health care.


You know life expectancy and cost. Isn't that enough, or do you now agree that there are other factors to be considered?
   377. PepTech Posted: September 19, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5534661)
The state didn't interfere with anything - it was your free will to stop risking the fine.


Lol. So if the state were to fine women for having abortions you'd argue that the state hadn't "interfered with anything"?

Somehow I doubt it.

Why embarrass yourself with a frivolous argument here? To what end?
I guess I left off the smiley face, there. It was certainly intended. Re-read it with one and see if it helps.

But broadly speaking, there is an interesting discussion to be had as to what constitutes "interference". Maybe we can save that for a less interesting week ;)
   378. Lassus Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:04 PM (#5534663)
Iceland: Issues.
Iceland is preparing for its second election in a year after its government collapsed over a letter of recommendation written by the prime minister’s father on behalf of a convicted pedophile.

Bjarni Benediktsson is Iceland’s fifth prime minister since its banking system collapsed in the 2008 financial crisis, taking office this past January at the head of a precarious coalition. A scandal involving offshore money had resulted in the resignation of one predecessor and had pushed another toward electoral defeat: Now Mr. Benediktsson may end up serving a shorter tenure than either of them.
   379. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5534665)
Bitter Mouse predicts the future yet again. Well, with his track record we should certainly only follow what he tell us is important. Oh, wait . . .


Hey if you want to think this mess results in a Democratic Senator being elected in Alabama I disagree, but I admit that would be funny. In any event I get to be amused when amusing things happen.

You know life expectancy and cost. Isn't that enough, or do you now agree that there are other factors to be considered?


If by now you mean always, then yes I now (always) "admit" that there are many factors in evaluation. When someone links to additional factors that matter so we can compare France and US (to pick a "random" pair of nations - random as per David's seeming definition of the word) I will gladly speak to those factors.

The whole subject is a bit silly, because obviously it is very reductive to reduce any such comparison to only better or worse. But then again I didn't start down this road, you did. And you never really did back up your initial contention about how terrible France was.

But here (again) is your chance. Any actual evidence? Or are we still in assertion land?
   380. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5534667)
365...if he makes it to another election it's unlikely he'll face as weak a candidate as hevdid in 16.
   381. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5534668)
Clapper, #367:
Shorter #357: Internal GOP fights in Alabama are worth noting; internal Democratic fights in California aren't.


Yes, Clapper, leftist in-fighting over the California Democratic chair is exactly as big a deal as a primary election-- and not just an election, but an unwanted runoff-- and not just a runoff, but a runoff that the sitting Senator, the President, the Majority Leader, and the mainstream money men are in position to lose. All in a state the GOP hasn't had to think about since before the invention of the Spice Girls.

The tension between moderate leftists and emphatic leftists is real. It always has been. It is absolutely worthy of reporters' attention. Though the political ramifications within California will be feeble, the tensions could augur a more general ideological jostling. And it still can't compare to the GOP's Alabama problem, which is of far more concern to that party's happiness, and far more emblematic of imminent electoral tsuris.

Senators Flake and Heller were already in the firing line-- it's people like Bob Corker and Roger Wicker who are watching this runoff at the ASPCA so they'll have an ample supply of dogs to kick. The 2018 Senate map is a terrible thing to waste.

Besides, someone with your enthusiasm gap in monitoring Obama's flaccid approval numbers vs. Trump's grim approval numbers is an imperfect messenger for your sort of "if A, why not B?" criticism.
   382. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:12 PM (#5534670)
Manafort won an election?

As part of the Trump campaign, he was allegedly wiretapped by the opposition Administration using its extraordinary foreign survellance powers.
   383. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:13 PM (#5534671)

Probably you never get sick because you are not really exposed to infections.

Ray is a bubble boy?
   384. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:17 PM (#5534673)
the top countries (yes, including the U.S.) are all close together

Cuba is only ninety miles away.
   385. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:18 PM (#5534675)
Manafort won an election?

As part of the Trump campaign, he was allegedly wiretapped by the opposition Administration using its extraordinary foreign survellance powers.


His wires were tapped.

   386. BrianBrianson Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5534678)
Shorter #357: Internal GOP fights in Alabama are worth noting; internal Democratic fights in California aren't.


If someone was challenging Feinstein and polling at 30+%, forcing her to spend millions on the primary, that would certainly be news.

That some college kids show up to yell at her is not an indication of any internal Democratic fight, never mind a noteworthy one.

Yeah, BM's posting the article because he's giddy that his side is in good shape. But it's at least intrinsically newsworthy. If Strange was facing off against a bakery patron whose main policy was building more nukes to fight the aliens that keep kidnapping him, and was polling 98%-2%, that wouldn't be (politically) interesting.
   387. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5534679)
Hey if you want to think this mess results in a Democratic Senator being elected in Alabama I disagree . . .

Not to flaunt my cognitive privilege, but Bitter Mouse is making up stuff again. I never suggested that a Democrat would win the Alabama Senate election, just that Bitter Mouse's prediction as to who would win the GOP primary run-off, and the significance of that compared to developments in California should not be taken any more seriously than his other comments. In Bitter Mouse's world, a 6-month appointed GOP Senator leaving office would be a Big Deal, but 25-year incumbent Senator Diane Feinstein facing a contested primary or being driven to retirement is a Nothingburger. Amusing.
   388. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:24 PM (#5534680)
The state didn't interfere with anything - it was your free will to stop risking the fine.

/sarcasm
   389. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:27 PM (#5534682)
If someone was challenging Feinstein and polling at 30+%, forcing her to spend millions on the primary, that would certainly be news.

That's how it's shaping up. Did you miss the articles on the vultures circling?
   390. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:28 PM (#5534683)
One of my friends just posted this conspiracy theory to social media. I'll just leave it here, without comment:

To all of you saying that girl walked into that freezer by herself, you have been fooled. That girl was frozen solid in a double- steel door freezer that does not close on its own. I know how heavy those doors are. They have the power to let you see what they want you to see Do your own research. I won't put any details, but its out there. Black market organ harvesting is not new. It's big business that runs deep and is worth more than prostitution and drugs combined. It's been going on since slavery. Why do you think so many black kids and adults have gone missing? Your body is worth over 1 million broken down. It's very easy to edit a video.
   391. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:31 PM (#5534684)
YC, #387:
a 6-month appointed GOP Senator leaving office


"Obviously there has been some discussion of Paul Manafort, who played a very limited role for a very limited amount of time."



#387:
In Bitter Mouse's world, a 6-month appointed GOP Senator leaving office would be a Big Deal, but 25-year incumbent Senator Diane Feinstein facing a contested primary or being driven to retirement is a Nothingburger. Amusing.


Feinstein's replacement, if any, will not be running on a platform of ousting Chuck Schumer.
   392. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:33 PM (#5534686)
he's giddy that his side is in good shape

Dude was giddy most of 2016, too. Seems like those post-election ect treatments worked.
   393. BDC Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:33 PM (#5534687)
As if on cue, Science-Based Medicine has a flu-shot-BS post today, borrowing Tara Haelle's lengthy list of myths:

Myth #6: Flu vaccines don’t work.
Myth #8: Flu vaccines make it easier for people to catch pneumonia or other infectious diseases.
Myth #12: The flu vaccine weakens your body’s immune response.
Myth #15: Influenza isn’t that bad. Or, people recover quickly from it.
Myth #19: The flu shot doesn’t work for me, personally, because last time I got it, I got the flu anyway.
Myth #20: I never get the flu, so I don’t need the shot.
Myth #21: I can protect myself from the flu by eating right and washing my hands regularly.
Myth #22: It’s okay if I get the flu because it will make my immune system stronger.
Myth #23: Making a new vaccine each year only makes influenza strains stronger.
Myth #24: The side effects of the flu shot are worse than the flu.


Full disclosure: the last time I had a flu shot was 1976, the infamous swine flu year. Immediately after getting the shot I got a bad case of the flu, and on the cat/stove-lid principle I have never gotten a flu shot since. It may be time for me to rethink my recalcitrance :-D
   394. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:35 PM (#5534689)
Feinstein's replacement, if any, will not be running on a platform of ousting Chuck Schumer.

That's good news for the GOP, but the claim that internal GOP disputes are more significant than internal Democratic disputes is BS.
   395. Morty Causa Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:36 PM (#5534691)

It always surprises me how little non-US healthcare systems seem to be a part of the American discussion.

Yes. We Americans don't feel foreigners have anything to inform our opinions. We're not just exceptional. We're unique. An entirely separate species.
   396. BrianBrianson Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:38 PM (#5534692)

That's how it's shaping up. Did you miss the articles on the vultures circling?


Yes, because no article remotely like that exists. A couple dozen kids who probably have no affiliation with the Democrats doesn't represent a huge infight. If there was actual indication Pelosi was in a primary problem - a named challenger who polls indicated would get more than five or six votes - that would be news. "College students want to think they're edgy" is not news.
   397. Howie Menckel Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:39 PM (#5534693)
I've never had a flu shot - and I've never had the flu.

I'm a multi-faceted noncombatant!
   398. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:42 PM (#5534695)
As if on cue, Science-Based Medicine has a flu-shot-BS post today, borrowing Tara Haelle's lengthy list of myths:

On the same page? A link to the science-based story, "Donald Trump's filthy richness exposed in 33 photos. Crazy."
   399. zenbitz Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:43 PM (#5534696)
Here is my candidate to replace Feinstein (whom I have never voted for):

Michael Eisen If that amuses and delights the GOP, more power to them.

If Pelosi quits, I might run.
   400. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 19, 2017 at 05:55 PM (#5534699)
That's how it's shaping up. Did you miss the articles on the vultures circling?

Yes, because no article remotely like that exists. A couple dozen kids who probably have no affiliation with the Democrats doesn't represent a huge infight. If there was actual indication Pelosi was in a primary problem - a named challenger who polls indicated would get more than five or six votes - that would be news. "College students want to think they're edgy" is not news.

The discussion was about Dianne Feinstein, not Nancy Pelosi. There have been recent articles in both the national and California media about a possible primary challenge to Feinstein by the State Treasurer or the State Senate President Pro Tempore, some of which were even linked here. Try to keep up.
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