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Monday, February 19, 2018

OTP 19 February 2018: Does Buster Posey Have a Post-playing Career in Politics?

Buster Posey is one of the most accomplished catchers in baseball history. At 30 years old, he already has a Hall of Fame resume.

In eight full seasons with the Giants, Posey has won National League Rookie of the Year, NL MVP, four Silver Slugger awards, a Gold Glove, and is a five-time All-Star. While he still has plenty of years left, Posey has naturally thought a bit about what he would like to do once his playing days are done.

But, politics? Well, kind of.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 19, 2018 at 08:04 AM | 2205 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: buster posey, giants, off-topic, politics

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   1101. -- Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5628847)
Yugoslavia was Europe's Afghanistan. Nazi Germany and its allies had an occupation army of 1,000,000 men, and didn't come anywhere close to squashing the resistance like ants and suffered 130,000 killed in the process.


Yugoslavia had a regular military, and Nazi Germany had squashed like 15 other countries like ants.

So maybe the US tyranny couldn't squash 15 developed countries like ants. But it would squash the Legions of the Honorable Penis Enhancers like ants.
   1102. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5628848)
Never heard of this fellow, although I don't watch much cable news, but I suspect his campaign peaked with his announcement - Former MSNBC Host Declares For Congress:
Former MSNBC host Dylan Ratigan declared his candidacy for Congress on Wednesday, cannonballing into the wide, shallow pool of Democrats hoping to challenge Republican Rep. Elise Stefanik in the northern reaches of New York state. The 45-year-old is the ninth Democrat to seek the nomination in the 12-county 21st Congressional District, which has been a safe Republican bastion — minus five years of Democratic representation by Bill Owens during the Obama administration — since the Civil War. Stefanik was elected in 2014.
. . .
He then pre-emptively discussed several “bombs” that would emerge during the campaign, including angry on-air rants, smoking marijuana and the fact that he has never voted and only last week registered to vote in the district. [emphasis added]

I don't think actual voters will overlook that, but some seem to think otherwise:
Saratoga County Democratic Chairman Todd Kerner predicted the field will narrow with Ratigan’s entry. “I think at the end of the day, he’s going to be the Democratic candidate because he can elevate the issues and possesses an ability to discuss them that nobody else possesses at this time,” Kerner said. “There’s a lot of smart, well-intentioned candidates … but if you’re looking at someone who is going to flip this seat and get Elise talking about the real issues facing people in the district, he’s the one who can do it.”

If that's true, it would be an indication of how weak the Dems are in the North Country. Not putting this one in the candidate recruitment success column.
   1103. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5628849)
It's hard to rule over an armed populace that really, really doesn't want you there, even if you have an overwhelming advantage in terms of military hardware.


It's hard to rule over any populace that really, really doesn't want you there. The Vietnamese weren't growing organic arms in the jungle. Or hell, ask the Shah - it was unarmed protests that ended his reign, the actual armed militias just cleaned up the rump.

But hey - maybe this is another good reason to forget the wall... arms always seem to make it into nations in revolutionary spasm.
   1104. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5628851)
Nine declared candidates in a seat the (D)s have held for 5 of the last 150 years? If that's weakness, what's strength?
   1105. -- Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:45 PM (#5628852)
The 1917 revolution, before it was co-opted by the Bolsheviks, was a citizen uprising that include much of the military. I can't imagine that situation ever happening here, but if it did the troops would not be shooting everyone in Texas, but would be part of the revolution.


Then you wouldn't need an armed citizenry.
   1106. -- Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5628854)
Eventually Putin said \"######\", bought the Chechens off, and decided to prop up Ramzan Kadyrov, who was considered acceptable by most Chechens (which says a lot about Chechens really), as the boss ape of those parts.


Russia still rules Chechnya, but in any event why wouldn't the US tyranny just buy off the leaders of the Penis Enhancers?
   1107. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5628855)
So enough Red Dawn fantasy, I hear there are some elections coming up - The 18 (!) Governorships Democrats Could Pick Up This Year

The other day, we ran down the seven governorships held by Democrats or independents that could fall to the GOP in November. Today’s list of vulnerable Republican seats is more than twice as long. According to qualitative assessments by nonpartisan handicappers — The Cook Political Report, Sabato’s Crystal Ball and Inside Elections,1 — only eight GOP-held governorships are completely safe in 2018.2 That leaves 18 Republican-held governorships in some degree of danger. Although it’s still too early to fully trust the polls in these races, here is a 30,000-foot rundown of Democrats’ potential 18 in ’18:


Some good information after the link, but I am going to go out on a limb and suggest Democrats are unlikely to win all 18. :)
   1108. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5628858)
Nine declared candidates in a seat the (D)s have held for 5 of the last 150 years? If that's weakness, what's strength?


You have to remember that his President won the biggest victory ever... with 44% of the vote... and more EVs than anyone since Obama... the previous election.

If they weren't being suppressed, there would be pictures of the inauguration throngs to prove it.
   1109. Stormy JE Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5628859)
OK, I give up: What's this Legions of the Honorable Penis Enhancers thing all about?
   1110. The Good Face Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5628862)
Russia still rules Chechnya, but in any event why wouldn't the US tyranny just buy off the leaders of the Penis Enhancers?


Is it still a tyranny when the people are generally pleased with whoever is in charge and he rules/governs with their consent?

Because Kadyrov was (and is) pretty popular in Chechnya. He's basically a vassal of Putin, but as long as he acknowledges his feudal overlord and keeps his people from making too much trouble, he's allowed to run Chechnya as he sees fit.
   1111. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5628864)

Never heard of this fellow, although I don't watch much cable news, but I suspect his campaign peaked with his announcement - Former MSNBC Host Declares For Congress:
I guess the Dems decided the "call her a little girl" strategy wasn't likely to be effective.
   1112. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:58 PM (#5628866)

OK, I give up: What's this Legions of the Honorable Penis Enhancers thing all about?
Shredder and a couple of his sycophants -- with SBB trailing behind them cleaning up the dogshit -- have come up with the oh-so-novel insight that anyone who likes guns is compensating for, er, Donald Trump's small hands.
   1113. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5628869)
Mass shootings of the headline grabbing type are a drop in the ocean when it comes to gun deaths, or murders. And, it’s certainly possible that the murder rate isn’t closely connected to gun ownership. I think what you’d really have a chance of addressing by trying to cut down on gun ownership would be accidental deaths and suicides. But the thing about accidental deaths and suicides is that they don’t command attention, and they don’t appear to galvanize public opinion.


That's because accidental deaths and particularly suicides are of a different class entirely.

And you don't need a gun for suicide. Here in NYC someone throws themselves off a building every month. Happened just the other day. Outlaw buildings?
   1114. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:03 PM (#5628871)
Nine declared candidates in a seat the (D)s have held for 5 of the last 150 years? If that's weakness, what's strength?

Did you read the article? Even the bold part in the excerpt? A "celebrity" who has never voted in his life, who wasn't even registered to vote until a week ago, with tenuous, limited connections to the District, is a serious candidate? Perhaps even the front runner for his party's nomination? Sorry, that's not a good sign.
   1115. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:03 PM (#5628873)
And indeed we see that most of the time these things don't in fact stop until the cops show up.

By the time the cops entered Stoneman Douglas HS, the shooter was at Walmart


First you ignored the word "vouchers." Now you ignore the word "most." I'm beginning to think you're not posting in good faith.
   1116. Traderdave Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5628875)
Answer the question, Ray. What is your experience with and knowledge of these weapons that you think belong in classrooms?
   1117. BDC Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:08 PM (#5628879)
A "celebrity" who has never voted in his life, who wasn't even registered to vote until a week ago, with tenuous, limited connections to the District, is a serious candidate? Perhaps even the front runner for his party's nomination? Sorry, that's not a good sign

Given how thrilled you are with Donald Trump, why would a could-give-a-#### celebrity candidate be a bad sign?
   1118. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5628881)
Did you read the article? Even the bold part in the excerpt? A "celebrity" who has never voted in his life, who wasn't even registered to vote until a week ago, with tenuous, limited connections to the District, is a serious candidate? Perhaps even the front runner for his party's nomination? Sorry, that's not a good sign.


Was "Celebrity" Donald Trump being a serious candidate (perhaps even front runner) a good sign for Republicans? Asking for a friend.

EDIT: DAMN IT! Coke to BDC. Make it Diet Lime, because I am Bitter. Almost Bitter enough to go back to my previous handle.
   1119. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5628882)
Wow.... Every school in West Virginia closed today as teachers staged a walkout over their pay and benefits...

Didn't they notice all those extra tax cut dollars in their paychecks?
   1120. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5628884)
#1104:
Nine declared candidates in a seat the (D)s have held for 5 of the last 150 years? If that's weakness, what's strength?


Clapper has his finger on the pulse of these voters. The good people of NY-21 will certainly reject a television dilettante parachuting into their politics (Presidential races aside).

Nevertheless, they're definitely not going to put up with some fancy elitist as their representative (the Harvard graduate they just reelected with 66% of the vote aside).

Look, YC's doing the best he can scavenging for good news. I also predict the GOP will do acceptably well in House districts they won by 37% margins.

A little Wikibird tells us that current Rep. Stefanik voted against the tax cut bill, argued on behalf of net neutrality, and vocally opposed Trump's Muslim ban and his leaving the Paris climate accord. May more Republican scoreboard victories continue in this fashion.


[EDIT: Let's just give BDC a Coke shower from a Gatorade bucket.]
   1121. Tom T Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5628885)
And you don't need a gun for suicide. Here in NYC someone throws themselves off a building every month. Happened just the other day. Outlaw buildings?


C'mon Ray, I know you are much better than this high school dropout-level blather. (As in, what all the guys I know who either didn't or barely graduated from high school keep trotting out as justification for not doing anything about our country's ridiculous level of gun-related deaths relative to almost the remainder of the "advanced" world.)

It is extremely well-documented that suicide by gun leads all other forms of suicide...not in terms of attempts, but in terms of success. Then you are being silly about the whole false equivalency to the building bit...the intended function of a building is not to lead to the death of a living entity (though I'm open to being proven wrong).
   1122. Stormy JE Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5628886)
Didn't they notice all those extra tax cut dollars in their paychecks?
So you finally noticed the private sector is more attuned to the needs of employees?
   1123. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5628888)
A "celebrity" who has never voted in his life, who wasn't even registered to vote until a week ago, with tenuous, limited connections to the District, is a serious candidate? Perhaps even the front runner for his party's nomination? Sorry, that's not a good sign

Given how thrilled you are with Donald Trump, why would a could-give-a-#### celebrity candidate be a bad sign?

Really? That's the best you can do, BDC? You're now in Bitter Mouse territory. So sad. Go ahead, delude yourself into thinking Ratigan is a strong candidate. Send him some money even. Or pick one of the other unheard of challengers. The bottom line is that the Dems are not in good shape in that District, and if you think that article indicates otherwise, you are seriously mistaken.
   1124. Morty Causa Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5628889)
Has any government ever fostered precepts for its overthrow? Or made it easier to overthrow it? Is a political system obligated to collaborate in its overthrow? If we reach the point of open violent defiance or war, it's kind of absurd to talk about the obligations to you, or of what's right and wrong under the law--the law does not adhere at the point where you take arms against it, the system is kaput, and it seems childish to think what you violently defy is going you and your beliefs. We're beyond government and what it owes you at that point. But, good luck in those endeavors. Just don't expect the aid and abet you in those endeavors. It's the adversary.
   1125. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5628892)
Didn't they notice all those extra tax cut dollars in their paychecks?


$1.50/week doesn't go as far as it used to.
   1126. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5628893)
Shredder and a couple of his sycophants -- with SBB trailing behind them cleaning up the dogshit -- have come up with the oh-so-novel insight that anyone who likes guns is compensating for, er, Donald Trump's small hands.

I don't think this is necessarily true (unlike large pickup trucks), although I do think a very, very large majority of them fantasize about shooting people.


C'mon Ray, I know you are much better than this high school dropout-level blather.

Nope.
   1127. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5628894)
C'mon Ray, I know you are much better than this high school dropout-level blather.


No he isn't.
   1128. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5628895)
Didn't they notice all those extra tax cut dollars in their paychecks?



$1.50/week doesn't go as far as it used to.


In unrelated news, all WV Costcos are jammed with membership renewals.
   1129. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5628897)
C'mon Ray, I know you are much better than this high school dropout-level blather.


I'm beginning to think he's not posting in good faith.
   1130. BDC Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5628898)
Really? That's the best you can do, BDC?

I am stung by this rhetorical parry, and, writhing in defeat, I hereby give back all my Cokes.
   1131. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5628900)
Well the current rep in NY 21:

Stefanik moved into the 21st Congressional District immediately prior to beginning her first campaign, and her official residence is in Willsboro, where her parents have owned a vacation home for many years.[61][62] She owns a minority interest in a townhouse near Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C., valued at $1.3 million.[63]


   1132. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5628904)
Yeesh... the people whose party controls the WH, both congressional chambers, all those governor's mansions, and all those state legislatures sure do seem to be getting angrier and crankier by the day.

They should take some time to smell the extra tax cut roses in their paychecks.
   1133. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5628906)

And you don't need a gun for suicide. Here in NYC someone throws themselves off a building every month. Happened just the other day. Outlaw buildings?


The data seems to indicate that if you put a fence around the top of a building so people can't throw themselves off, a significant fraction of them end up not killing themselves at all. Suicide barriers are effective at preventing suicides, not just redirecting them. I'm most familiar with the one on the Bloor Viaduct you may recognise from the Resident Evil movie, but they're put up in a lot of places - the Golden Gate Bridge is currently building one, for instance. Because healthy adults don't rationally choose suicide - they undergo some kind of catastrophic thinking failure, and if you prevent the short term actions, their thinking can get restored. Something like half of people who commit suicide decide to do so less than a half hour before they do it. it's not a calculated, rational priority.
   1134. -- Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5628908)
Shredder and a couple of his sycophants -- with SBB trailing behind them cleaning up the dogshit -- have come up with the oh-so-novel insight that anyone who likes guns is compensating for, er, Donald Trump's small hands.


No, not "anyone." Two broad categories. You have a wide contingent of losers and geeks and misfits and delusions of grandeur types who are compensating for penis insecurities and/or fancying themselves tyranny slayers, in much the same way that seven-year-old girls imagine one day marrying a prince. These people have confreres of similar outlook throughout wide swaths, though certainly not all, of the Western world.

Allied with them, you have a number of educated people who have talked themselves into supporting current gun laws, or even loosening current gun laws, in order to service their political ideologies -- typically some blend of libertarian conservatism, as those terms are used in the American sense. This category has no analogue in the educated precincts of the rest of the world, and exists only in the United States. Aside from a few random eccentric one-offs, had these people (and I would include Szym, Nieporent, and RDP among them) been born a citizen of any other country, and educated/acculturated therein, there is no way whatever they would be saying the things about guns that they say. It is a uniquely American phenomenon.
   1135. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5628911)
[Republicans] should take some time to smell the extra tax cut roses in their paychecks.


So far, 28 GOP Representatives are doing just that.
   1136. BDC Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5628912)
I do think a very, very large majority of them fantasize about shooting people

I agree, having heard some of this fantasy from Texans first-hand. Needless to say, they're not dreaming about lives of crime. Such talk tends to be about white-knighthood or protecting the castle. But it's a recurrent theme; people don't just assume their guns will be mainly deterrents. If you doubt this, Google "handgun stopping power."
   1137. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5628916)
The bottom line is that the Dems are not in good shape in that District


They're probably not in good shape in any district they win once every couple centuries. Does the (R)s nominating an actual Nazi is some hopeless Chicago district mean all the ClownHitler remarks were literal and prescient?
   1138. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5628918)
Allied with them, you have a number of educated people who have talked themselves into supporting current gun laws, or even loosening current gun laws, in order to service their political ideologies -- typically some blend of libertarian conservatism, as those terms are used in the American sense. This category has literally no analogue in the educated precincts of the rest of the world, and exists only in the United States. Aside from a few random one-offs, had these people (and I would include Szym, Nieporent, and RDP among them) been born a citizen of any other country, and educated/acculturated therein, there is no way whatever they would be saying the things about guns that they say. It is a uniquely American phenomenon.


You're killing the game man. Nice.
   1139. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5628922)
Yugoslavia had a regular military, and Nazi Germany had squashed like 15 other countries like ants.


Yugoslavia had a regular military, that is correct. Germany crushed it in the spring of 1941 true. Then, over the next 4 years, they occupied the country with upwards of 1,000,000 men, and had over 10% of them killed by the resistance.

That's kind of the opposite of squashing them like bugs.
   1140. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5628925)
12-county 21st Congressional District, which has been a safe Republican bastion — minus five years of Democratic representation by Bill Owens during the Obama administration — since the Civil War. Stefanik was elected in 2014.

Errrr.... I might be missing something that Politico isn't, but NY-21 has had 14 Dem reps vs. 4 GOP reps over the past 100 years, including the current GOP rep. Sure it's full of Adirondack weirdos and wackos and mountain living and misplaced stars-n-bars flags (seriously, guys, the freakin' Adirondacks, really?), but also Saratoga and college towns like the afore-mentioned unfortunate Plattsburgh.

NOTE: This dope seems like a crappy candidate, but not as crappy as the President.
   1141. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:42 PM (#5628927)
Uh, until 1980, NY-21 was in Manhatten (per Wikipedia). It was also Albany for a while. The fault of using numbers for districts.
   1142. The Good Face Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:42 PM (#5628928)
I do think a very, very large majority of them fantasize about shooting people

I agree, having heard some of this fantasy from Texans first-hand. Needless to say, they're not dreaming about lives of crime. Such talk tends to be about white-knighthood or protecting the castle. But it's a recurrent theme; people don't just assume their guns will be mainly deterrents. If you doubt this, Google "handgun stopping power."


There are a few people right here in this thread that fantasize about killing people.

And "stopping power" is a sore spot among more educated shooters. The best comparison I can make is how SABR-aware fans feel listening to sportswriters talking about X being a "real clutch hitter".
   1143. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5628932)
Uh, until 1980, NY-21 was in Manhatten (per Wikipedia). It was also Albany for a while. The fault of using numbers for districts.

I admit it's a little goofy to get the history straight, I just wonder how Politico is measuring.

But yes, upstate NY is a red stronghold, that's easy to see as a resident and native.
   1144. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5628933)
There are a few people right here in this thread that fantasize about killing people.

Nice shunt from "shooting", there.
   1145. Stormy JE Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5628937)
There are a few people right here in this thread that fantasize about killing people.
Shooty hasn't done OTP in like, forever.
   1146. The Good Face Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5628938)
There are a few people right here in this thread that fantasize about killing people.

Nice shunt from "shooting", there.


Well, I don't know if they're gun owners or not. But is it somehow better if somebody fantasizes about stabbing people instead of shooting them?
   1147. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5628940)

Uh, until 1980, NY-21 was in Manhatten (per Wikipedia). It was also Albany for a while. The fault of using numbers for districts.
Yeah, I have to say that I'd really like to see us adopt the Canadian/UK policy of naming districts rather than numbering them.
   1148. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5628944)
Is it somehow better if somebody fantasizes about stabbing people instead of shooting them?


Or constructing tall buildings for them to jump off of?
   1149. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5628947)
Good lord, enough with Howard Roark.
   1150. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5628954)
1146

But is it somehow better if somebody fantasizes about stabbing people instead of shooting them?


"Would it make you feel any bettah, little goil, if 'dey was pushed outta windahs?" -- A. Bunker
   1151. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:02 PM (#5628955)
Stefanik moved into the 21st Congressional District immediately prior to beginning her first campaign

LOL. She was born & raised in the area, before leaving for college and then serving on the White House staff, before returning to work in her family's business. Geez, this is ridiculous, you clowns are objecting to mocking a frivolous Democratic primary candidate for being frivolous.
   1152. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5628959)
LOL. She was born & raised in the area, before leaving for college and then serving on the White House staff, before returning to work in her family's business. Geez, this is ridiculous, you clowns are objecting to mocking a frivolous Democratic primary candidate for being frivolous.


I think you might be misreading who the object of the mocking is...
   1153. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5628960)
I might be missing something that Politico isn't, but NY-21 has had 14 Dem reps vs. 4 GOP reps over the past 100 years, including the current GOP.

You're missing quite a bit. You don't go by the number of the Congressional District but the territory. New York once had as many as 45 seats in the House of Representatives, and the 21st District from decades ago has no resemblance to the current District.
   1154. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5628961)
C'mon Ray, I know you are much better than this high school dropout-level blather. (As in, what all the guys I know who either didn't or barely graduated from high school keep trotting out as justification for not doing anything about our country's ridiculous level of gun-related deaths relative to almost the remainder of the "advanced" world.)

It is extremely well-documented that suicide by gun leads all other forms of suicide...not in terms of attempts, but in terms of success. Then you are being silly about the whole false equivalency to the building bit...the intended function of a building is not to lead to the death of a living entity (though I'm open to being proven wrong).


Throwing yourself off the 10th floor has a pretty high success rate.

I'm not persuaded by your point.

Moreover, the means of suicide doesn't interest me. We should try to reduce overall suicide rates, but the success rates of the various means doesn't interest me. Why not? Because at least those people are doing it to themselves -- and may even have a good reason. Suicides are often tragedies (sometimes not) but what are definitely tragedies, every time -- and of a far greater magnitude -- are homicides.

And yet people here don't actually seem able to understand the difference between a suicide and a homicide, on a fundamental level. You can't have a reasoned discussion with people like that.
   1155. zenbitz Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5628962)
David are you really complaining about an opinion piece that came out of a PRIVATE University, published by a PRIVATE media corp? Not a good look on a libertarian. Or are you trying to get me to defend my employer?

Or are you just mocking someone with "outrageous" ideas? Frankly - she has a point. I think it's predicated on the conflation of the word "colonization" and it's implication on unoccupied worlds. I think her answer is WRONG but you have to the acknowledge that "SHOULD we be doing this?" is a valid question. "Patriarchy" is not a wholly disregardable socio-biological explanation for the so-called "human desire" to explore (and conquer ) new territory/continents/worlds.

You should all read the Red Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson.



   1156. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:10 PM (#5628963)
Wow.... Every school in West Virginia closed today as teachers staged a walkout over their pay and benefits...

Didn't they notice all those extra tax cut dollars in their paychecks?


So you finally noticed the private sector is more attuned to the needs of employees?

Well, when your Governor and the state legislature are 2/3 Republican, even Trump University is likely to be looking generous by comparison. I'm only mildly surprised they haven't outsourced the schools to the West Virginia Coal Association.
   1157. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5628965)
More good news where you can find it, from the Drudge Report: Border Wall construction begins...

Read it and weep, liberals:

The federal government began work Wednesday to replace a section of border wall in California, the first wall contract awarded in the Trump administration outside of eight prototypes that were built last year in San Diego.

Customs and Border Protection is replacing a little more than two miles in downtown Calexico, a sliver of the president's plan for a “big, beautiful wall” with Mexico.
   1158. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5628967)
Also on Drudge, a link to Newsbusters:
CNN's Tapper Sits Back as Student Equates Rubio to School Shooter

Wednesday's CNN town hall to promote gun control and gun grabbing was off the rails from the start. So-called moderator Jake Tapper sat back as the wild crowd targeted Republican Senator Marco Rubio (Fla.) with boos and jeers for basically just being there.


Shocking inertia! Inevitably, here's Newsbusters again, on the CNN moderator from 2012:
Candy Crowley Disgraces Herself With Outrageous Tagteam Hit on Romney Over Libya

CNN correspondent and second presidential debate moderator Candy Crowley disgraced herself tonight, repeatedly intervening to save a floundering President Obama and showing why many Americans were rightfully suspicious of her ability to moderate a presidential debate fairly.
   1159. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5628968)
Trump wants to give bonuses to up to 1.4 million teachers to carry weapons. He also wants only highly trained and capable teachers to have guns. Guys like (his example) Gen Kelly.

Let's unpack this. First of all, there are approx 3.5 million teachers in this country. What % of teachers are as highly trained as Gen Kelly? Certainly not 40%. Certainly not 4%. Doubtful is 0.4%. 0.4% of 3.5 million is 14,000. Are there 14,000 teachers as highly trained as a guy who spent 30+ years in the Marines?

Second, the bonus. He didn't specify how much a bonus. What sort of bonus would entice someone indifferent to the idea of packing in the classroom to go through extensive weapons and tactic training? $1,000? $5,000? Let's say it's $1,000. That's $1.4 billion annually. Who's going to pay for that?

As far as poorly thought out proposals go, this one's Really poorly though out.

Of course it's not thought out at all. Just typical Trump word salad.
   1160. -- Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5628969)
"Would it make you feel any bettah, little goil, if 'dey was pushed outta windahs?" -- A. Bunker


Wow, this is at least two, maybe three Archie Bunker references in the last 24 hours. Is he having a moment here?
   1161. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5628970)
You should all read the Red Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson.


I tried. It seemed preachy (and I'm sympathetic to the POV). Some pretty awesome imagery though and yea you convinced me to finish at least the first book. Got a long flight next week seems as good of time as any.
   1162. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:17 PM (#5628971)
LOL. She was born & raised in the area, before leaving for college and then serving on the White House staff, before returning to work in her family's business. Geez, this is ridiculous, you clowns are objecting to mocking a frivolous Democratic primary candidate for being frivolous.


But she didn't live in the district before deciding to run. Carpetbagger really.
   1163. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5628972)
Wow, this is at least two, maybe three Archie Bunker references in the last 24 hours. Is he having a moment here?


I know I dropped one about a week ago...
   1164. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5628977)
You should all read the Red Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson.


Ugh. I read the first book, really wanted to like it but ... way too preachy and I was not fond of the structural conceit. Then I read the second book, hey everyone said how great it was and maybe I just missed the bus on the first one. Nope, hated it also. I have a bunch of friends that love them all and tell me I should read the third book. Thus far I have resisted the urge (quite easily actually). The prose is solid, I give it that.

Such is life in the big city.
   1165. manchestermets Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5628978)
I guess the Dems decided the "call her a little girl" strategy wasn't likely to be effective.


He should run as a Republican, he'd win the nomination handily.
   1166. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5628980)
You should all read the Red Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson.

Done and done - 20 years ago, Oy. I didn't find it all that preachy, it was more hopeful and almost semi-realistic. But I was younger, of course. Now, the more recent Science in the Capital series, THAT's preachy.

Continuing on, I was disappointed (unlike many others, apparently) by Years of Rice and Salt, and have been meaning to read Galileo's Dream, 2312, and New York 2140, but haven't gotten around to it.
   1167. Ishmael Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5628982)
Moreover, the means of suicide doesn't interest me. We should try to reduce overall suicide rates, but the success rates of the various means doesn't interest me. Why not? Because at least those people are doing it to themselves -- and may even have a good reason. Suicides are often tragedies (sometimes not) but what are definitely tragedies, every time -- and of a far greater magnitude -- are homicides.

I agree that some suicides are less tragic than others, and that there is only so much we can, and should, be doing to prevent suicides.

But I don't think it follows that we therefore shouldn't care about the means people choose. If you can lower the suicide rate by having fewer guns (or other easy, effective ways of committing suicide) in people's immediate environment, then that suggests that you are preventing suicides that are tragedies, that are not the result of a carefully considered, settled will to self-annihilation. As Brian says upthread, many people who choose a gun as a method apparently don't have such a will. And if you are not determined to do it, suicide isn't generally an easy thing. Overdoses and wrist-cuttings don't have a particularly high success rate. But guns are very good at killing, fewer people survive a suicide attempt by gun than by other methods.

It might be that there are other ways to achieve the same result, perhaps investment in mental health treatment, or even legalising assisted suicide. And it may not be worth the cost to personal freedom. But it is worth caring about.
   1168. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:31 PM (#5628986)
Shredder and a couple of his sycophants -- with SBB trailing behind them cleaning up the dogshit -- have come up with the oh-so-novel insight that anyone who likes guns is compensating for, er, Donald Trump's small hands.

Someone likes Shredder enough to be one of his sycophants? That surprises me.
   1169. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5628988)
Stefanik would have to seem to be on the short list for a 2024 GOP presidential run/pick, wouldn't she?
   1170. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5628989)
Wow, this is at least two, maybe three Archie Bunker references in the last 24 hours. Is he having a moment here?

I know I dropped one about a week ago...



As a famous lovable bigot who shall not be named said, "After once or twice, a thing like this gets vulgarious."
   1171. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5628991)
Stefanik would have to seem to be on the short list for a 2024 GOP presidential run/pick, wouldn't she?


Not unless she changes her mind on climate change.
   1172. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5628992)
Stefanik would have to seem to be on the short list for a 2024 GOP presidential run/pick, wouldn't she?


Undoubtedly. But for which party?
   1173. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5629002)
I agree that some suicides are less tragic than others, and that there is only so much we can, and should, be doing to prevent suicides.

But I don't think it follows that we therefore shouldn't care about the means people choose. If you can lower the suicide rate by having fewer guns (or other easy, effective ways of committing suicide) in people's immediate environment, then that suggests that you are preventing suicides that are tragedies, that are not the result of a carefully considered, settled will to self-annihilation. As Brian says upthread, many people who choose a gun as a method apparently don't have such a will. And if you are not determined to do it, suicide isn't generally an easy thing. Overdoses and wrist-cuttings don't have a particularly high success rate. But guns are very good at killing, fewer people survive a suicide attempt by gun than by other methods.

It might be that there are other ways to achieve the same result, perhaps investment in mental health treatment, or even legalising assisted suicide. And it may not be worth the cost to personal freedom. But it is worth caring about.


The problem is that the anti-2A people disingenuously use suicides as a tool to argue for more gun restrictions. If they weren't being disingenuous they wouldn't pretend that suicides should be lumped in with homicides as "gun deaths." That gives the game away.

We should be trying to reduce suicide attempts; healthy societies have low suicide rates. But again suicides are of a different kind than homicides, and until folks demonstrate that they understand that point they have nothing to add -- only to subtract -- from this discussion.
   1174. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5629004)
Whoa?! Did you just assume Mars is an unoccupied world?
   1175. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5629007)
If they weren't being disingenuous they wouldn't pretend that suicides should be lumped in with homicides as "gun deaths." That gives the game away.


Err, this is backwards. Homicides shouldn't be lumped in with suicides as "gun deaths". Homicides will get committed anyways. But in the absence of the guns, the some of the suicides won't. So, as far as the facts go, reducing suicides is a reasonable reason for at least some elements of gun control. Waiting periods, for instance.
   1176. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5629009)
Waiting periods, for instance.


"3 days! But I'm mad NOW!!"
   1177. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5629010)

Waiting periods, for instance.
I think that waiting periods for gun purchases should be the same as waiting periods for abortions.
   1178. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5629011)
I think that waiting periods for gun purchases should be the same as waiting periods for abortions.


And to buy houses and to go to a dentist! Because different things should have the exact same rules. Because LOGIC!
   1179. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5629012)
I think that waiting periods for gun purchases should be the same as waiting periods for abortions.


If gun dealers were as few and far between as abortion clinics, I'd agree.
   1180. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5629017)
If waiting periods are just to make sure people are serious, they could be done by having to schedule your appointment 2 days ahead of time or so, and be fine for guns, and not a significant burden on ladies who needed an abortion. In practice, they usually make you show up, to try to make it too much of a burden for the poor to be able to do it.
   1181. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5629018)
We should try to reduce overall suicide rates,


Not from Republicans.
   1182. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5629019)
From a few days back I thought this was very interesting and challenges some fairly deeply held left opinions (which makes it even more interesting IMO). As always take any single study with a grain of salt.

Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men?

Sarah Kliff points today to a new study from Denmark on the gender wage gap. Danes are famously egalitarian, and labor force participation is nearly equal between men and women these days. However, Denmark still has a large gender wage gap—nearly as large as the United States, in fact. Why? Researchers Henrik Kleven, Camille Landais, and Jakob Egholt Søgaard conclude that it’s almost purely a childbearing penalty:


Click through for charts and stuff.
   1183. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5629020)
Because Kadyrov was (and is) pretty popular in Chechnya.


No one could have predicted TGF coming in hard with the defense of Putinite authoritarian overseers.
   1184. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5629027)
Yeah, it's only a single study, but I'm pretty convinced that's the bulk of it, from two results

Men who hold reactionary gender role views make more than those who hold progressive views, and women who hold progressive gender role views make more than women who hold reactionary gender role views.

Gay men make less than straight men, but gay women make more than straight women.

It's how households are being arranged. Now, you can argue that's not really a free choice, and certainly, that's my experience in the practical sense - I would've been interested in taking paternal leave, but it cost too much (even though, up until the age my wife was when she gave birth, she'd actually earned more than I had at that age - but I'm four years older, and was making more at the time).
   1185. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5629028)
If anyone's in the mood to see Roy Cohn and Gore Vidal debate McCarthyism... here you go.

The faceoff includes some entertainingly serpentine and non-actionable gaydar barbs from Vidal, to Cohn's visible discomfort.
Vidal: To me, the nicest thing, let’s be affirmative. The nicest thing that I have ever heard about Joe McCarthy was told me by Senator Flanders of Vermont: that he was a full-time homosexual. Is this true?

Cohn: No, I’m sure you’d think that merited a badge of honor, but it is not true.

Vidal: Well, I’m getting to you in a minute, but what about Senator McCarthy?

Cohn: Oh, sure, that’s your favorite topic of conversation. I know that.

Vidal: I know; it’s aroused by the obvious.

...

Cohn: I hate to eliminate or eradicate the one plus you ever did give to Senator McCarthy, but the statement and the charge is totally untrue.

Vidal: You would know.
   1186. -- Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5629031)
Vidal: I know; it’s aroused by the obvious.


That is just deliciously well-played.
   1187. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:39 PM (#5629032)
Turley's read:

Mueller Reportedly Files New Manafort Charges As Investigators Look Into Alleged Quid Pro Quo Deal Of $16 Million Loan

February 22, 2018 jonathanturley Criminal law, Politics, Society

Paul Manafort has been something of a target rich environment for Special Counsel Robert Mueller who has piled on an assortment of charges for financial and fraud crimes. The charges were not much of a surprise for many of us in Washington where Manafort has long held a reputation for dubious clients and practices. Indeed, as discussed before, it is astonishing that Donald Trump selected Manafort to head his campaign when minimal vetting would have revealed his controversial history and clients. Now Mueller has reportedly filed new charges under seal. There is a new allegation of mortgage fraud but one recently disclosed inquiry could present an even more serious issue for Manafort and the Administration. All of the past charges have been unrelated to election or the campaign. The new allegation is no exception, but it does involve the Administration in Manafort allegedly securing a $16 million loan in exchange for an appointment of the banker to a prestigious Administration position. Mueller is reportedly seeking information on the appointment of Stephen Calk to Trump’s council of economic advisers in August 2016. He is the president of Federal Savings Bank and gave Manafort the over-sized loan. As discussed in my most recent column, this is why I have been arguing the financial allegations are more important to watch than the collusion allegations.

...

This is still not an allegation linked to Russian collusion but it would be the first to allege serious criminal conduct touching upon the Administration itself.
   1188. The Good Face Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5629034)
No one could have predicted TGF coming in hard with the defense of Putinite authoritarian overseers.


I did?

I mean, Kadyrov is rather funny from a distance, in a horrifying sort of way. A kind of real life Borat-as-fratboy, only if Borat was a ruthless warlord.
   1189. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5629035)
Vidal: To me, the nicest thing, let’s be affirmative. The nicest thing that I have ever heard about Joe McCarthy was told me by Senator Flanders of Vermont: that he was a full-time homosexual. Is this true?

Cohn: No, I’m sure you’d think that merited a badge of honor, but it is not true.

Vidal: Well, I’m getting to you in a minute, but what about Senator McCarthy?

Cohn: Oh, sure, that’s your favorite topic of conversation. I know that.

Vidal: I know; it’s aroused by the obvious.

...

Cohn: I hate to eliminate or eradicate the one plus you ever did give to Senator McCarthy, but the statement and the charge is totally untrue.

Vidal: You would know.


Now THAT was cold.
   1190. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 22, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5629036)
So do we go with the over or the under?

Organizers plan for 500,000 attendees at ‘March For Our Lives’ rally in Washington

Organizers of a rally against mass shootings planned for next month in Washington are expecting up to 500,000 attendees, according to an event permit application.

The application filed this week with the National Park Service indicates the “March For Our Lives” will be March 24, although a location hasn’t been determined. The rally, organized by survivors of last week’s school massacre in Parkland, Fla., will have “sister marches” in other major cities, organizers said.

The event will include “student speakers, musical performers, guest speakers and video tributes,” according to the permit application, with 14 Jumbotrons and 2,000 chairs.

Mike Litterst, a spokesman for the National Park Service, said that organizers initially proposed holding the event on the Mall, but are looking at moving the rally to another location in Washington.

“We’ve had our first meeting with the organizers and for scheduling and logistics reasons they are now focusing on alternate locations for the event, including Pennsylvania Avenue and West Potomac Park,” Litterst wrote in an email. ....

The rally’s website and Facebook page indicate marches in London, Philadelphia, Houston and Broward County, Fla., where a gunman killed 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Feb. 14. ...

On Tuesday, [Oprah] Winfrey tweeted: “These inspiring young people remind me of the Freedom Riders of the 60s who also said we’ve had ENOUGH and our voices will be heard.”
   1191. Traderdave Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:07 PM (#5629038)
Mueller Reportedly Files New Manafort Charges As Investigators Look Into Alleged Quid Pro Quo Deal Of $16 Million Loan


As I have stated here several times, collusion with Russia, in the form of quid pro quo arrangements, will ultimately be proven by money changing hands via Manafort. This is but one step closer.
   1192. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5629040)
If anyone's in the mood to see Roy Cohn and Gore Vidal debate McCarthyism... here you go.


That was great. I love listening to Vidal speak.
   1193. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5629042)
CPAC sounds like a riot.. Pence lecturing you hippies on how to listen respectfully like noted obnoxious ######### Donald Trump.
   1194. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5629043)
There was a good clip-filled documentary about Vidal and William F. Buckley centering on their infamously nasty 1968 convention debates called "Best of Enemies." It was available on Netflix at one point, and may still be.
   1195. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5629045)
“March For Our Lives”

How long before the pro-abortion types object because that formulation is too close to The March for Life?
   1196. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:25 PM (#5629048)
Looks like Paul Manafort isn't the only one getting indictments today -

Missouri governor Eric Greitens has been indicted for his little tied up naked photo blackmail scheme...
   1197. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:27 PM (#5629049)
Ha! And Trump opposes schools having "active shooter drills" because it will make students think negative things.

Man, Clapper... your party is sumpin' else!
   1198. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5629051)
Missouri governor Eric Greitens has been indicted for his little tied up naked photo blackmail scheme...


It's the age-old political story.
   1199. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5629056)
   1200. -- Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:55 PM (#5629058)
Ha! And Trump opposes schools having "active shooter drills" because it will make students think negative things.


He's right, of course -- rendering it unclear why you would ridicule him on the point.
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