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Monday, February 19, 2018

OTP 19 February 2018: Does Buster Posey Have a Post-playing Career in Politics?

Buster Posey is one of the most accomplished catchers in baseball history. At 30 years old, he already has a Hall of Fame resume.

In eight full seasons with the Giants, Posey has won National League Rookie of the Year, NL MVP, four Silver Slugger awards, a Gold Glove, and is a five-time All-Star. While he still has plenty of years left, Posey has naturally thought a bit about what he would like to do once his playing days are done.

But, politics? Well, kind of.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 19, 2018 at 08:04 AM | 2205 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: buster posey, giants, off-topic, politics

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   501. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:05 AM (#5627914)
Started trying to read Verducci's book on the 2016 Cubs and one of the first chapters has content about Rizzo and his high school years at Stoneman Douglas.
   502. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5627915)
I really, really liked Bonfire of the Vanities and thought it was outstanding and criminally underrated, but that might have been a product of time and place. I have on my to-do list catching back up with it to see if I still think so and how it's aged. (The movie, of course, was dreadful.)


Bonfire is great - I think Man in Full is better, but Bonfire of the Vanities is right up there with it. I think Charlotte Simmons is a cut below both - but Wolfe's prose is still in fine form.
   503. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5627916)
Which began under Obama, and which was the result, not of politics, but of technological advances in fracking.
Right, it happened in spite of the Obama administration doing its very best to throw roadblock after roadblock to exploration on federal lands.
   504. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:09 AM (#5627917)
They've probably all got prior bookings....
Zonkaboutism?
   505. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:11 AM (#5627918)
They experienced a mass shooting and/or it killed a bunch of people they knew, why shouldn't they speak up? And fine for MSM to cover it though fair to note most reporters and outlets are anti gun.11
And that's my point: When there's a jihadi terror attack that kills students' parents, does CNN promise to fawn all over them as they demand an end to refugees from Afghanistan and Pakistan?
   506. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5627922)
Geez, now we are at the point of talking about future hypothetical whataboutisms?
   507. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5627924)
Geez, now we are at the point of talking about future hypothetical whataboutisms?
Oh? Care to show us CNN tape of fawning interviews with mature students from the March for Life protests?
   508. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5627927)
They've probably all got prior bookings....


Zonkaboutism?


No, see - you're missing part of the equation... namely, CNN/etc reporting on the march and saying those students are too young to have their opinions count, the equivalent of D'Souza (IDK - buy a condom you horny sluts?), and the spreading like wildfire nonsense conspiracy theories claiming that those marchers are all just paid actors.

You'd think Juanabout would know how this works.
   509. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5627930)
Oh? Care to show us CNN tape of fawning interviews with mature students from the March for Life protests?


Show me the CNN show mocking or otherwise claiming they lack standing to voice their opinions.
   510. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:23 AM (#5627931)
309

The kids are being used as pawns here.


Maybe the shootings got them woke.
   511. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:23 AM (#5627932)
As noted yesterday afternoon, I'm not a fan of journalists exploiting traumatized high school students but if care is taken to identify mature 16 and 17-year olds, interview them.
   512. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5627934)
Show me the CNN show mocking or otherwise claiming they lack standing to voice their opinions.
Non-responsive.

#evergreen
   513. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5627935)
Oh? Care to show us CNN tape of fawning interviews with mature students from the March for Life protests?


What a weird demand: "I insist media show me exactly what I deem to be fair! News worthy? Why bother? I insist on a balancing of the scales according to MY views! Now!"

You realize the world doesn't work that way, right? I hope your whining is cathartic for you though.
   514. -- Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5627937)
Probably not, but maybe this is actually a tipping point on guns. Not exactly analogous, but things moved quickly on gay marriage and pot legalization.
   515. -- Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5627938)
As noted yesterday afternoon, I'm not a fan of journalists exploiting traumatized high school students but if care is taken to identify mature 16 and 17-year olds, interview them.


There's no "exploitation" going on whatever. It's a purely organic movement of the students and journalists are covering it appropriately.
   516. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5627939)
When there's a jihadi terror attack that kills students' parents, does CNN promise to fawn all over them as they demand an end to refugees from Afghanistan and Pakistan?


This is a bit like a child on Mother's day complaining "When is kids day?" Or a white person complining about Black History month by asking "When is white history month."

Here's your serious response:

The US fights terrorism, but not school shootings

Upon learning of the murder of 17 people at a Florida high school on Wednesday, the activist Michael Skolnik reissued a plea for gun-control measures that he’s made in the wake of previous mass shootings. “One shoe bomber tried to blow up a plane and now we are forced to take off our shoes,” he wrote on Twitter, in reference to airport-security policies implemented after a terrorist attempted to detonate explosives in his shoes on a Miami-bound flight in 2001. “1606 mass shootings since Sandy Hook Elementary School and Congress has done NOTHING.” The academic Brian Klaas expressed a similar sentiment: “After 9/11, we reinforced cockpit doors & tightened security. We didn’t say ‘the only thing that stops a hijacker is a good guy on a plane.’”
.
.
.
While efforts to reform gun laws have made progress in a number of U.S. states, they’ve repeatedly stalled in Congress in recent years. The U.S. government spends roughly $22 million a year on gun-violence research—a “tiny fraction of what it spends on other major health threats,” according to NPR. It’s an even tinier fraction of what it spends on counterterrorism; we’re talking the equivalent of 22 baggage-screening machines. Even when Barack Obama, a staunch gun-control advocate, asked Congress for more money to counter gun violence, his requests were in the low billions of dollars.


Despite what you wish it was, the threat of jihadi terrorists and refugees is dwarfed by the threat to US citizens from other US citizens, the vast majority regular white guys. While the efforts to stop jihadi terrorism is many, orders of magnitude higher.
   517. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5627940)
Non-responsive.


You're really not very good at this... Try adding an "ie" - I hear that's clever in certain minds...

Non-responsiveie?
   518. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5627941)
There's no "exploitation" going on whatever. It's a purely organic movement of the students and journalists are covering it appropriately.


Thousands of south Florida HS students now walking out of class to march and gather in solidarity. I'm sorry if this newsworthy event gives Jason a sad (not really).
   519. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5627942)
his is a bit like a child on Mother's day complaining "When is kids day?" Or a white person complining about Black History month by asking "When is white history month."


It also perpetuates the rather blatant lie that "jihadi terror attacks" have been carried out by Pakistani or Afghan refugees.
   520. -- Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5627943)
Thousands of south Florida HS students now walking out of class to march and gather in solidarity. I'm sorry if this newsworthy event gives Jason a sad (not really).


I'm not sure why Ray objected to my "failed by their elders" construction. Kids born after Columbine are HS juniors and seniors and have lived their whole lives under the threat of their schools being shot up.

They can't vote, and therefore have no representation; thus, the conditions under which they've lived are entirely a product of their elders.

There's really no reason they should have been subject to a society that would let a 19-year-old make threats against their school, which the FBI ignored, and then be able to go out and buy the weaponry and ammunition necessary to carry it out. Who in their right mind wouldn't rise in protest against such a state of affairs?
   521. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5627944)
Thousands of south Florida HS students now walking out of class to march and gather in solidarity. I'm sorry if this newsworthy event gives Jason a sad (not really).
I hope this solidarity will sustain them when their "assault weapons" ban demand goes nowhere.
   522. DavidFoss Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5627948)
Kids born after Columbine are HS juniors and seniors and have lived their whole lives under the threat of their schools being shot up.

Columbine was April 1999. I know kids born that month. They're in their first year of college now. The 'born after 9/11' kids are HS juniors now. This is the post-millenial generation. "Generation Z" (I hope they find a better name... they never did for 'Gen-X').
   523. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5627949)
I hope this solidarity will sustain them when their "assault weapons" ban demand goes nowhere.


Mocking the voiceless and powerless trying to make their grievences heard in the wake of an atrocity perpetuated on them is shall we say, not a good look, especially coming from someone of a certain ethnicity.
   524. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5627950)
364

The issue was that Mueller has thus far publicized virtually no evidence with regard to Trump-Russia collusion.


So of course that means he doesn't have any.

Please...
   525. BrianBrianson Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5627951)
“One shoe bomber tried to blow up a plane and now we are forced to take off our shoes,”


I hate this argument so much because taking off shoes for security theatre is pants-on-head retarded. There's absolutely no justification for doing it other than you're a complete, unmitigated moron. So, it's not an example to point to and suggest we follow.
   526. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5627952)
I hope this solidarity will sustain them when their "assault weapons" ban demand goes nowhere.


If not, many of them will be eligible to vote by this November - and virtually all of them will be by November 2020.
   527. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5627953)
366

I thought of typing "latent" and then I quickly corrected myself because, no, it's blatant.


Oh, good for you, Ray...
   528. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5627955)
Noted Trumpkin Jason Miller just now on CNN: "The President has taken swift and decisive action WRT gun violence."

I assume by that he means having a "listening session" about gun violence, and tweeting about backround checks. You can't make it up.
   529. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5627956)
If not, many of them will be eligible to vote by this November - and virtually all of them will be by November 2020.
Other than economic/paycheck issues, there's probably no better way for the GOP to flatten the electoral wave that was cresting at the start of the year than to have gun rights/control be the signature issue this fall.
   530. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5627958)
.
   531. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5627960)
384

We're simply pointing out that the longer this investigation goes on without the collusion unicorn being found the less likely it would seem that collusion will be found.


That's merely a fervent hope, if not a fairy tale. You, me, Andy, Clapper...none of us have any idea whether or not there will be any collusion found, because Mueller and his team aren't leaking anything.

Which I find commendable.
   532. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5627961)
Personally I believe the law should be that 5 shot revolvers and bolt actions rifles and single or double barrel shotguns should be the only allowable firearms to own and use.
   533. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5627962)
Mocking the voiceless and powerless trying to make their grievences heard in the wake of an atrocity perpetuated on them is shall we say, not a good look, especially coming from someone of a certain ethnicity.
Mocking the voiceless and powerless? Didn't this issue arise because news outlets were shoving microphones into students' faces?

My point was simple but I'll repeat it for your benefit: If these students feel mature enough to play hooky from school to issue serious public policy demands, go for it, but they should also be prepared for the disappointment that awaits.
   534. -- Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5627964)
That's merely a fervent hope, if not a fairy tale. You, me, Andy, Clapper...none of us have any idea whether or not there will be any collusion found, because Mueller and his team aren't leaking anything.


But the authorities were leaking everything and anything for months, and still are -- the alleged Papadopolous drunken chat was leaked. There's little reason to believe Mueller is finding anything not already found.
   535. Traderdave Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5627966)
As noted yesterday afternoon, I'm not a fan of journalists exploiting traumatized high school students but if care is taken to identify mature 16 and 17-year olds, interview them.


I saw a tweet yesterday that said the same people who said 13 & 14 year olds were mature enough to date Roy Moore think that 16 and 17 year olds are not mature enough to talk about guns.

The GOP has some mighty ###### up priorities.....
   536. BrianBrianson Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5627967)
Certainly also old-timey muskets!
   537. -- Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5627968)
My point was simple but I'll repeat it for your benefit: If these students feel mature enough to play hooky from school to issue serious public policy demands, go for it, but they should also be prepared for the disappointment that awaits.


You're certainly right that they probably aren't old enough to understand the penis insecurities that ultimately drive much of this issue. When they get old enough to realize it, they'll likely scoff -- as most informed people do.
   538. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5627970)
I think we'll have to classify that as artillery and outlaw it.
   539. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5627971)
Personally I believe the law should be that 5 shot revolvers and bolt actions rifles and single or double barrel shotguns should be the only allowable firearms to own and use.


Seconded, with the provision that one can own or rent, semi automatic rifles to be kept only at a licensed shooting range, never to leave the premises. Many people claim that it is fun to shoot semis at targets, and I don't doubt them. Just as it's fun to drive a race car at 150 MPH, but you can't do that around your neighborhood.
   540. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5627973)
My point was simple but I'll repeat it for your benefit: If these students feel mature enough to play hooky from school to issue serious public policy demands, go for it, but they should also be prepared for the disappointment that awaits.

And what a weird way you expressed that sentiment. Almost feels like you went searching for a higher (and yet still vapid reason) ideal once you got called out for making an overly heartless post.
   541. Traderdave Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5627974)
Personally I believe the law should be that 5 shot revolvers and bolt actions rifles and single or double barrel shotguns should be the only allowable firearms to own and use.


This avid hunter agrees. There is no conceivable reason other than mass destruction for any more than that.
   542. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5627975)
I saw a tweet yesterday that said the same people who said 13 & 14 year olds were mature enough to date Roy Moore think that 16 and 17 year olds are not mature enough to talk about guns.

The GOP has some mighty ###### up priorities.....
May we have the names of these recognizable GOP figures and their quotes please?
   543. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5627976)


Seconded, with the provision that one can own or rent, semi automatic rifles to be kept only at a licensed shooting range, never to leave the premises. Many people claim that it is fun to shoot semis at targets, and I don't doubt them. Just as it's fun to drive a race car at 150 MPH, but you can't do that around your neighborhood.


Thought about that but I don't know. If someone is manufacturing semi automatic weapons then they are going to get out there.
   544. Shredder Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5627977)
Certainly also old-timey muskets!
As an originalist, I believe in the second amendment's unrestricted right to own the types of arms that existed at the time that the second amendment was written.
   545. -- Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5627978)
Personally I believe the law should be that 5 shot revolvers and bolt actions rifles and single or double barrel shotguns should be the only allowable firearms to own and use.


Pretty much, yeah. And even then, they have to be fully registered and traceable, much like cars.
   546. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5627980)
Many people claim that it is fun to shoot semis at targets, and I don't doubt them. Just as it's fun to drive a race car at 150 MPH, but you can't do that around your neighborhood.


Yes. Treating hobbyist weapons like "track days" is a perfectly rational solution. Of course this will go nowhere, because the same people who tell you that the AR/M4/M16 type of military grade weapons and their sundry add-ons are "just like any other rifle" will follow that up by telling you that you can't regulate access to those perfectly normal, absolutely not-military grade weapons because they're the Freedom and Liberty Militia's primary defense against Barack Obama's looming takeover of Texas.
   547. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5627982)
   548. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5627983)
Almost feels like you went searching for a higher (and yet still vapid reason) ideal once you got called out for making an overly heartless post.
Bartenders are adorable when they start imagining they're board certified psychologists.
   549. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5627985)
If these students feel mature enough to play hooky from school


Their school is still an active crime scene, and is closed until next Tuesday or Wednesday. The aren't plaing hooky, the were forced out of their school by a mass murdering gun nut. And they want to say something about that. And you mock them. Would you feel better if they were all home on their play station today?

As for the other demonstrations today, maybe that woldn't have happened if the Republican dominated state legislature hadn't given a big FU to the students travelling to the Capitol last night.
   550. Traderdave Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5627986)
And even then, they have to be fully registered and traceable, much like cars.


And like cars, they should require a license and liability insurance.
   551. dlf Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5627988)
Personally I believe the law should be that 5 shot revolvers and bolt actions rifles and single or double barrel shotguns should be the only allowable firearms to own and use.



This avid hunter agrees. There is no conceivable reason other than mass destruction for any more than that.


Just curious: have you ever hunted wild boar? With the amount of muscle and gristle on the chest, a single shot is quite often only enough to wound the future bbq. I'm 100% for restrictions on high capacity magazines, but I'm not sure that essentially going to a limit of one is the right number.
   552. Shredder Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5627989)
Many people claim that it is fun to shoot semis at targets, and I don't doubt them. Just as it's fun to drive a race car at 150 MPH, but you can't do that around your neighborhood.
It's all fun and games until you let an eight year old girl shoot an uzi and she proceeds to blast her instructor in the head.
   553. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5627993)
Mocking the voiceless and powerless? Didn't this issue arise because news outlets were shoving microphones into students' faces?

My point was simple but I'll repeat it for your benefit: If these students feel mature enough to play hooky from school to issue serious public policy demands, go for it, but they should also be prepared for the disappointment that awaits.


Good grief. You're better than this.
   554. Traderdave Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5627994)

Just curious: have you ever hunted wild boar?


I've taken 8-10 of them (forget exactly), all but one with archery. Only one of them took more than one arrow. The one with a rifle was 1 round from a 30.06

Shot placement is key -- don't take the shot if you don't have the best angle to make it a kill shot. A chest shot, as you describe, is generally not recommended. Broadside and quartering away are the best ways to go. Poor shot placement is the usual reason for needing more than one. And if you need more than one, a bolt action is perfectly fine provided you've practiced sufficiently at the range before heading out to the field. (And obviously, pratcie and safe operation should always be followed in ANY shooting situation.)
   555. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5627995)
Just curious: have you ever hunted wild boar?


With a spear. Like a real man.
   556. Shredder Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5627997)
Good grief. You're better than this.
You're living in the past. You must have missed Jason's transition to full on Trumpaloon.
   557. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5627998)
The aren't plaing hooky, the were forced out of their school by a mass murdering gun nut. And they want to say something about that. And you mock them.


The reason Jason and the GOP are so adamant about denying women basic reproductive freedom is because they need to demand pregnancies be carried to term to replace the mass shooting attrition rate of American children.
   558. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5627999)
I repeat that people who want guns regulated like cars are either gun enthusiasts or don't know what they're talking about. We would have to eliminate all regulations on possession, and most on use, to have guns regulated like cars. You anti-civil-rights nuts don't want that.
   559. Traderdave Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:18 AM (#5628000)
I repeat that people who want guns regulated like cars are either gun enthusiasts or don't know what they're talking about.


With some hesitancy, I ask you to elaborate how I don't know what I'm talking about.
   560. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:18 AM (#5628001)
Billy Graham finally keeled the #### over. 99 years. Proof that their is no god. And his atrocity of a child is still ####### around and shitting all over the country.
   561. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5628002)
Traderdave: heading into court. Can't talk now. Short version is that guns are already regulated much more heavily than cars. Long version I'll go over later.
   562. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5628005)
Any students who are playing hooky to lobby on behalf of a gun ban aren’t enrolled in the school where the mass shooting took place. FFS.
   563. Traderdave Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5628006)
We would have to eliminate all regulations on possession, and most on use, to have guns regulated like cars. You anti-civil-rights nuts don't want that.


A far greater portion of Americans own autos than guns, and the auto business in aggregate -- everything from factories to lenders to DMV clerks -- is one of the largest hunks of the US economy. How the hell does that square with "elimination on all regulations of possession?"


EDIT: Caught your last post: Short version is that guns are already regulated much more heavily than cars. Long version I'll go over later.


That is HIGHLY debatable. Consider requirements for operator license and liability insurance, as well as state tracking of VIN numbers. You probably consider such things TYRANNY but most of the other 7 billion humans think they're quite rational.

   564. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5628008)
Please tell me what you find so offensive, gef.
   565. BDC Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5628009)
Short version is that guns are already regulated much more heavily than cars

I have no time to rebut this, I've got to take my 9mm in for state inspection and then go pay my gun-insurance premium so I can get my gun-registration sticker renewed.
   566. BrianBrianson Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5628011)
Driving is fairly regulated. Owning a car is unregulated. It's kind of semantic.
   567. SteveF Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5628012)
I have no time to rebut this, I've got to take my 9mm in for state inspection and then go pay my gun-insurance premium so I can get my gun-registration sticker renewed.

And in some states you couldn't drive your car in public without an extra special license the state now refuses to actually issue.
   568. Traderdave Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5628013)
Owning a car is unregulated.


It's taxed and formally registered every year in every state.
   569. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5628014)
Please tell me what you find so offensive, gef.


Knee-jerk opposition to kids trying to effect -- however fruitlessly, & for that matter however (in your opinion) misguidedly -- what they perceive as positive change. Would you have dismissed black children in Birmingham who marched for voting rights in the "Children's Crusade" of 1963? Would you have cheered Bull Connor & his uniformed thugs for violently suppressing the little miscreants for daring to skip school?

Wait. Maybe I don't want you to answer that.
   570. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5628017)
Driving is fairly regulated. Owning a car is unregulated. It's kind of semantic.
If that's the distinction, it's more sophistic than semantic.
   571. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5628018)
Primey for 394
   572. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5628022)
398


Aide to Florida Republican state rep from Tampa area uses official state email account to claim to a reporter that Parkland kids appearing on TV aren’t real students there but ”actors that travel to various crisis when they happen.”


And his ass was fired before it hit the chair this morning.
   573. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5628023)
The idea that the young should not engage in political discourse, shouldn't protest, is ridiculous on multiple levels.

First of all, the young have always protested, with student revolutions figuring large historically multiple times and places. Second the idealism of the young is a valuable resource, one that needs to be tempered by knowledge and expertise (see yesterdays discussion). Third they will be running the country soon enough, seeing protests from the other side is good experience. Fourth, losing a day or so of schooling is hardly a tragedy, especially in a good cause. Regular absenteeism is a huge warning sign, missing a day or so, not so much.
   574. Lassus Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5628024)
Didn't this issue arise because news outlets were shoving microphones into students' faces?

D'Souza mocked the emotion shown in a photograph when the shooting survivors reacted to the vote that meant no change in current regs were coming. There were no NEWS OUTLETS and their microphones or other Satanists present in said photograph.


If these students feel mature enough to play hooky from school to issue serious public policy demands, go for it, but they should also be prepared for the disappointment that awaits.

Did you mean to write "mockery and outright lies" here? Because that's what happened to the students from (EDIT) various conservatives. EDIT: Before you whatabout it instead of addressing D'Souza's assholery, I'm aware that Dems lie about conservatives.
   575. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5628025)
Owning a car is unregulated.


It's taxed and formally registered every year in every state.


I'll save everyone the specultion. david's argument is that cars that never leave private property are essentilly unregulated. they don't require regstration nor insurance, operators do not need to be licensed, they do not need to meet EPA standards.

it's a silly, pedantic argument, but that's our David. Of course what people mean when they say they want guns regulated like cars, what the mean is regulated like 99.9999% of the cars are regulated.
   576. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5628028)
423

Noting the hypocrisy of some on the left here does provide a bit of amusement, but you'll note that my mocking of politicians or other posters doesn't include such sexist terminology.


You are just so much...better...than the rest of us.

Thank you for being you, Clapper.
   577. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5628029)
That's merely a fervent hope, if not a fairy tale. You, me, Andy, Clapper...none of us have any idea whether or not there will be any collusion found, because Mueller and his team aren't leaking anything.


We'll see. The problem is that we're not just starting. Several indictments have been handed down already, none of which have to do with collusion.

Obviously if you target a bunch of politicians and rich people who have been involved in a gazillion business ventures you're going to uncover crimes related to money laundering and the like, or related to obstruction during the investigations. That's not the slightest bit surprising.
   578. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5628030)
And in some states you couldn't drive your car in public without an extra special license the state now refuses to actually issue.


Which would seem to mean that my "repeal and replace 2A" idea ought to be able to get bipartisan support.

Rewrite it up to require adjudication of application to purchase and possess a gun within 14/20/30/whatever days - hell, write up it up that a failure to adjudicate the application within a limited timeframe means automatic licensing. Put limits on the application costs - make it a dollar... make it no more than 1% of the gun price... whatever. Require all sales and transfers of whatever type to follow the licensing process - carve out exceptions for estates, eliminating gun show and private sale loopholes. Nationalize the law that only 11 states have requiring reporting of (allegedly) 'lost' or 'stolen' guns. Require licensing renewals every 3 years or whatever where the owner has to swear to possession.

I'm perfectly happy to land on a middle ground between say, Texas and Illinois.

Up until the last week, while I make no claims to be any 2A guy - it wasn't particularly an issue I would supported spending any political capital on...

But now? Not because of this particular shooting - lord knows that camel's back would have broken long ago if it was a camel's back to break - but because of the batshit insane reactions to anyone advocating any measures... the absolutely moronic hyperbole hurled at anyone who dares suggest anything.

So congrats... I've changed my mind - NOT because of the latest mass shooting, but because I'm annoyed about the dumb reactions by the paranoid dick extenders. I tolerate plenty of other security theater for dumb reasons. If nothing else, subjecting some of the folks who sound like paranoid loons about being loaded into cattle cars like the Nazis because no guns! to a little of the same would probably actually help suss out those suffering from serious mental illness.
   579. SteveF Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5628032)
But now? Not because of this particular shooting - lord knows that camel's back would have broken long ago if it was a camel's back to break - but because of the batshit insane reactions to anyone advocating any measures... the absolutely moronic hyperbole hurled at anyone who dares suggest anything.

Well, my only point is that David is right. In some places at least, guns are regulated more heavily than cars. They, of course, should be.

I'm in favor of repealing the second amendment and allowing states to regulate sale/possession in whatever manner they deem fit.
   580. Traderdave Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5628034)
The problem is that we're not just starting. Several indictments have been handed down already, none of which have to do with collusion.


I will bet you that the final result of all this is a quid pro quo of Russian support & money in exchange for a light touch with Russia. The indictments of Kelly and Manafort are central to this, though not the only ones. Examples of light touch are removal of Ukraine plank from platform and tapping the brakes on sanctions.


   581. Count Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5628035)
577- Ray, gonna keep bringing this up: lying about communications with Russians about sanctions during the transition and about getting dirt on Hillary during the election both are evidence of collusion. The Manafort and Gates indictments are not yet, though Manaforts work for Russia may end up being related.
   582. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5628036)
Knee-jerk opposition to kids trying to effect -- however fruitlessly, & for that matter however (in your opinion) misguidedly -- what they perceive as positive change. Would you have dismissed black children in Birmingham who marched for voting rights in the "Children's Crusade" of 1963? Would you have cheered Bull Connor & his uniformed thugs for violently suppressing the little miscreants for daring to skip school?
I don't possess a "knee-jerk opposition." Emotionally mature students should take part in protests, whether it's about guns, Israel, abortion, etc. Unfortunately, I suspect a majority of participants aren't sufficiently developed to understand these issues.

Speaking of which...

Like the students currently organizing in Florida, I'm sure most students who take part in the annual March for Life are convinced their cause is comparable to the "Children's Crusade." Does that make it so? Are you prohibited from questioning whether they possess all of the facts or are mindlessly repeating something a parent said? Must you endorse the outlawing of abortion?
   583. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5628037)
Unfortunately, I suspect a majority of participants aren't sufficiently developed to understand these issues.


At least 17 of them will never be so "sufficiently developed."
   584. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5628038)
Lowry:

The Russians didn’t do anything to us that we weren’t already doing to ourselves

By Rich Lowry

February 20, 2018


If only Joe McCarthy had lived to see this moment, when it’s suddenly in vogue to attribute large-scale events in American politics to the hand of Russia and to inveigh against domestic subversion.

...

Mueller obviously isn’t a McCarthyite, and can’t be held responsible for the hysteria — and hopeful expectations of an impeachment-level event — that has built up around his work. His indictment [of the 13 Russians] is, as far as anyone can tell, rigorously factual.

That’s probably the point of it — to create a record of an episode that we should want to know as much about as possible and prevent from ever happening again.

The Russia campaign was a shockingly cynical violation of our sovereignty. President Trump would do himself and the country a favor by frankly denouncing it.

But the scale of the operation shouldn’t be exaggerated. In the context of a hugely expensive, obsessively covered, impossibly dramatic presidential election, the Russian contribution on social media was piddling and often laughable.

The Russians wanted to boost Trump, but as a Facebook executive noted, most of their spending on Facebook ads came after the election. The larger goal was to sow discord, yet we had already primed ourselves for plenty of that.

Does anyone believe, absent Russian trolls on Twitter and Facebook, that we were headed to a placid election season involving an incendiary, mediagenic former reality TV star bent on blowing up the political establishment and a longtime pol who had stoked the enmity of Republicans for 30 years and was under FBI investigation?

...

In a better world, Trump would be less defensive about the Russian investigation and his opposition would be less obsessively invested in it (at least until such time that it produces a genuine bombshell).

...


   585. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5628040)
577- Ray, gonna keep bringing this up: lying about communications with Russians about sanctions during the transition and about getting dirt on Hillary during the election both are evidence of collusion.
And I still don't understand your point. If the lying wasn't to federal investigators, then what's the charge?
   586. dlf Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5628041)
Emotionally mature students should take part in protests, whether it's about guns, Israel, abortion, etc. Unfortunately, I suspect a majority of participants aren't sufficiently developed to understand these issues.


I wouldn't use "developed" but rather informed and possessed of sufficient wisdom to weigh the information available. But unfortunately, I would further argue that this is true of a huge number of folks well over the age of majority as evidenced by the clear misunderstanding of facts, or the necessary inferences therefrom, present on this page today.
   587. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5628044)
I do think it's possible that we're about to see a sea change here on the effort to significantly change the gun laws (i.e., significant restrictions). Democrats have managed it with same-sex marriage, and with the #MeToo movement, etc.

But there's a problem.

The problem with the effort succeeding is two-fold. (1) The type of gun control that Democrats want remains unpopular among the pro-2A constituencies, and so it's going to be difficult to get enough support in Congress to significantly change the laws. (2) That pesky Constitution. You're going to need enough judges in the lower courts, and enough Supreme Court justices, to ignore the Second Amendment.

Ultimately I think this ends up like immigration: a groundswell to change the immigration laws to provide essentially for amnesty, but not enough political will to do so.

We'll see.
   588. SteveF Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5628046)
I would further argue that this is true of a huge number of folks well over the age of majority as evidenced by the clear misunderstanding of facts, or the necessary inferences therefrom, present on this page today.

You could extend that critique to the NY Times and Washington Post, based on what I've read in the past. The Guardian tends to be the best on gun issues.
   589. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5628047)
Like the students currently organizing in Florida, I'm sure most students who take part in the annual March for Life are convinced their cause is comparable to the "Children's Crusade." Does that make it so? Are you prohibited from questioning whether they possess all of the facts or are mindlessly repeating something a parent said? Must you endorse the outlawing of abortion?


If armed agents of the state start beating these students down, siccing dogs on them, battering them with high-pressure water hoses, etc., I would definitely have problems with that.

Even if it's on a school day. And even if they lean conservative.
   590. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5628049)
Well, my only point is that David is right. In some places at least, guns are regulated more heavily than cars. They, of course, should be.

I'm in favor of repealing the second amendment and allowing states to regulate sale/possession in whatever manner they deem fit.


Fair enough...

FWIW, I guess my proposal would actually be more NRA friendly, as I'd be fine nationalizing a process that allows for legal gun purchases and ownership everywhere with certain safeguards to prevent pricing or delays from being de facto bans.

Again, I lay no claim to being any defender of gun ownership... but (*Clapper trigger alert - personal anecdote incoming*) more than half my family and friends from HS are - and frankly, the way some of them are reacting makes me want to suggest a psych evaluation. One classmate posted a wholly non-hyperbolic piece on social media about regulating magazine size and another, a guy I was pretty close with (played baseball together for a good 10 years, even double-dated to senior prom) suggested it would "be a shame if my 2nd amendment rights silenced your 1st amendment"... just a real WTF moment. Yeah, yeah... it's the internet - but this is someone using his own name telling someone who knew and also was a classmate of for 12 years to STFU or I might shoot you. Utterly surreal - and it's not isolated.
   591. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5628050)
Like the students currently organizing in Florida, I'm sure most students who take part in the annual March for Life are convinced their cause is comparable to the "Children's Crusade." Does that make it so? Are you prohibited from questioning whether they possess all of the facts or are mindlessly repeating something a parent said? Must you endorse the outlawing of abortion?


You keep bringing this up as if it's some kind of gotcha... but - while the internet is a big place and sure someone, somewhere has - I'm not aware of a single person that has ever questioned under-18 participation or otherwise invalidated the expression of the opinion because they "don't count" somehow.

So prohibited? No, I guess not... yet no one has... why?

I would say that because the pro-choice argument can stand on its own and vilifying or otherwise dismissing young people expressing a contrary opinion is dumb. Maybe you should ask yourself why yours cannot follow the same pattern.
   592. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5628051)
If armed agents of the state start beating these students down, siccing dogs on them, battering them with high-pressure water hoses, etc., I would definitely have problems with that.
Enough with the hysterics, gef. You were the one who initiated the comparison.
   593. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5628054)
You keep bringing this up as if it's some kind of gotcha... but - while the internet is a big place and sure someone, somewhere has - I'm not aware of a single person that has ever questioned under-18 participation or otherwise invalidated the expression of the opinion because they "don't count" somehow.
You seem to be confusing me with David or Ray.

But yes, I'll continue to ask you to wake me when CNN runs the fluff pieces and convenes town halls to hear what March for Life participants think should be done about late-term abortions.
   594. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5628055)
I'm not understanding the criticism here to Trump's reaction to the FL shooting, which is not even a week old. Already he's ordered that regulations be written to ban bump stocks. And he tweeted that he's open to more thorough background checks. He seems to be starting to become engaged with the issue (FN).

What more do you or did you want him to do in the first week? Other than "not be president," I mean?

--

FN: WaPo: "The president also surveyed Mar-a-Lago Club members about whether he ought to champion gun control measures in the wake of last week’s school massacre in nearby Parkland, telling them that he was closely monitoring the media appearances by some of the surviving students, according to people who spoke with him there."

Now, you might think it's silly that he's "surveying" rich white people at his country club, but at least it shows he's thinking about the problem.
   595. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5628056)
I do think it's possible that we're about to see a sea change here on the effort to significantly change the gun laws (i.e., significant restrictions). Democrats have managed it with same-sex marriage, and with the #MeToo movement, etc.

But there's a problem.

The problem with the effort succeeding is two-fold. (1) The type of gun control that Democrats want remains unpopular among the pro-2A constituencies, and so it's going to be difficult to get enough support in Congress to significantly change the laws. (2) That pesky Constitution. You're going to need enough judges in the lower courts, and enough Supreme Court justices, to ignore the Second Amendment.

Ultimately I think this ends up like immigration: a groundswell to change the immigration laws to provide essentially for amnesty, but not enough political will to do so.

We'll see.


Perhaps.

Losing elections sucks, but then - one can also take solace that taking the occasional stand based on a real issue, even if the stand is imprecise, even if it needs subsequent expert formulating is actually a pretty good immunization against seeing your party get taken over a by a ridiculous reality TV clown who probably doesn't give a real #### about any of it.
   596. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:27 PM (#5628059)
I'm not understanding the criticism here to Trump's reaction to the FL shooting, which is not even a week old. Already he's ordered that regulations be written to ban bump stocks. And he tweeted that he's open to more thorough background checks. He seems to be starting to become engaged with the issue (FN).

What more do you or did you want him to do in the first week? Other than "not be president," I mean?

--

FN: WaPo: "The president also surveyed Mar-a-Lago Club members about whether he ought to champion gun control measures in the wake of last week’s school massacre in nearby Parkland, telling them that he was closely monitoring the media appearances by some of the surviving students, according to people who spoke with him there."

Now, you might think it's silly that he's "surveying" rich white people at his country club, but at least it shows he's thinking about the problem.


The problem is that problem he's thinking about is what it means to his popularity.

I mean, do you really think he gives a #### about guns one way or another? 10-15 years ago he was a veritable lefty gun grabber on the issue. He runs for President and then he's the NRA's best friend. Now, he's investigating how much slack his base will give him to satiate suburban soccer moms.

I honestly don't know why you folks keep trying to pretend he's something he's not rather than just accepting what he is.
   597. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:28 PM (#5628060)
What more do you or did you want him to do in the first week?


This attitude is the problem. It's not the first week. Sutherland Springs was 3.5 months afo. Las Vegas was 4.5 months ago. Orlando was 20 months ago. Roseburg was 28 months ago. Sandy hook was over 5 years ago.

Last week wasn't the first time people were demanding action.
   598. Stormy JE Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5628061)
The problem is that problem he's thinking about is what it means to his popularity.

I mean, do you really think he gives a #### about guns one way or another? 10-15 years ago he was a veritable lefty gun grabber on the issue. He runs for President and then he's the NRA's best friend. Now, he's investigating how much slack his base will give him to satiate suburban soccer moms.

I honestly don't know why you folks keep trying to pretend he's something he's not rather than just accepting what he is.
I wonder if zonk appreciates that in his response he's describing a typical politician.
   599. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5628062)
What more do you or did you want him to do in the first week?

This attitude is the problem.


Uh huh.
   600. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5628063)
That’s probably the point of it — to create a record of an episode that we should want to know as much about as possible and prevent from ever happening again.


This, I can agree with, even though no respectable fish would want to find itself wrapped in the New York Post...
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