Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, February 19, 2018

OTP 19 February 2018: Does Buster Posey Have a Post-playing Career in Politics?

Buster Posey is one of the most accomplished catchers in baseball history. At 30 years old, he already has a Hall of Fame resume.

In eight full seasons with the Giants, Posey has won National League Rookie of the Year, NL MVP, four Silver Slugger awards, a Gold Glove, and is a five-time All-Star. While he still has plenty of years left, Posey has naturally thought a bit about what he would like to do once his playing days are done.

But, politics? Well, kind of.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 19, 2018 at 08:04 AM | 2205 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: buster posey, giants, off-topic, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 9 of 23 pages ‹ First  < 7 8 9 10 11 >  Last ›
   801. Lassus Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:30 PM (#5628376)
for the loons

As in, your preferred choice for President.
   802. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:33 PM (#5628377)
You unhinged TDSers keep beclowning yourselves again and again. When will you realize that Donald Trump was a visionary genius for believing he could flip a state that the Democrats had won by 9.5% (MI), while Hillary Clinton was a deluded fool to even dream she could flip a state that Republicans had won by 9% (AZ)?
   803. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:34 PM (#5628378)
If you're the type of monster who likes to laugh at other people's downfalls, you'll want to find out what kind of a week the late Milo Yiannopoulos has been having.
   804. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:40 PM (#5628380)
#803 From avclub:


Bird MILF
2/21/18 6:10pm

If you need further proof of how shitty InfoWars is, Milo Y. now works for them. If you needed proof of how shitty Milo Y. is, he now works for InfoWars.
   805. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:41 PM (#5628381)
When will you realize that Donald Trump was a visionary genius for believing he could flip a state that the Democrats had won by 9.5% (MI), while Hillary Clinton was a deluded fool to even dream she could flip a state that Republicans had won by 9% (AZ)?

If only there was a way to measure which belief was more realistic.
   806. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:42 PM (#5628382)
That's the "up" part of Milo's week. At least it's a gig.
   807. -- Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:43 PM (#5628383)
There’s no sense hiding where we are with this right now.


Thousands of teachers will leave and not enter the profession rather than have to train and carry a gun around, and be expected to use it. Parents by the thousands will pull their kids out of schools where all the teachers are armed.

It's a ludicrous idea that renders the nation a worldwide embarrassment. It's the stupidist idea ever seriously discussed in my lifetime.

A mandatory five cops per school is a way better idea. Armed drones flying over every school is a better idea. Cloning Bitter Mouse and assigning one to every school to bore would-be killers to death with a cavalcade of banalities is a better idea.
   808. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5628384)
#805:
If only there was a way to measure which belief was more realistic.


"Are you ready for some Monday morning football?"

The Trump campaign also repeatedly touted its belief that they could or would flip Nevada (they didn't) and New Hampshire (they didn't) and Colorado (they didn't) and Virginia (they didn't). The latter two drives were especially ineffective: Colorado didn't move an inch, and the GOP actually slipped in Virginia.

But those failures were most definitely not the least bit LOL-worthy, and were nothing at all like Team Clinton's risky and wasteful target shortfalls. Why not? Because the Trump campaign successfully threaded a series of needles. For all we know, those cunning flops may actually have been feints to trick the Clinton strategists!
   809. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:48 PM (#5628385)
It's a ludicrous idea that renders the nation a worldwide embarrassment. It's the stupidist idea ever seriously discussed in my lifetime.

A mandatory five cops per school is a way better idea. Armed drones flying over every school is a better idea. Cloning Bitter Mouse and assigning one to every school to bore would-be killers to death with a cavalcade of banalities is a better idea.


+1

What can I say, credit where credit is due.
   810. Lassus Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:48 PM (#5628386)
It's a ludicrous idea

By your preferred choice for President.


that renders the nation a worldwide embarrassment.

That continues the path harkened by your preferred choice for President.


But go ahead, blame the NY Times or Hillary Clinton.


   811. stig-tossled,hornswoggled gef the talking mongoose Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:50 PM (#5628388)
I had no idea that Buddy Hackett was still alive, let alone that he worked for the White House.
   812. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:54 PM (#5628389)
Thousands of teachers will leave and not enter the profession rather than have to train and carry a gun around, and be expected to use it.

I haven't seen it suggested that carrying a gun would be required of any teacher, just that some may volunteer and be trained to provide an additional level of security.
   813. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 08:58 PM (#5628391)
Knowledge of this would act as a deterrent to a would-be attacker, Trump claimed. “You know, a lot of people don’t understand that airline pilots now, a lot of them carry guns, and I have to say that things have changed a lot. People aren’t attacking the way they would routinely attack and maybe you would have the same situation in schools.”


Very little of that has to do with pilots being armed. And if I may speak out of turn, based on my anecdotal evidence, a lot fewer are armed than used to be. I know a lot of pilots, and most signed up for the FFDO program after 9/11. Most have quit since, due in prt to the onerous requirements to keep up the rating.

Anyway, the armed pilots are at best the 4th or 5th line of defense. In no particular order, the following are far more important in preventing hijackings: Reinforced cockpit doors, a knowledge that a hijacked aircraft may be purposefully flown into the ground, a willingness of the US military to shoot down hijacked aircraft, the awareess of passengers that a hijacked aircraft could be flown into the ground, armed Air marshals.

Armed teachers are in no way analogous to armed pilots.
   814. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:04 PM (#5628393)
Hitler became emboldened with success. The invasion of France wasn't his plan and he didn't have much to do with it outside of meddling with it at the end. After France he started to really deep diving into his press clippings and meddle with the military to a great deal and pretty much at that point on the leadership and strategy of the Germans was a messy quagmire that wasted manpower and resources a great deal for often times futile reasons.

Give Trump and Hitler for credit for doing something that 9 times out of 10 fails but succeeded for them because they were ballsy and shameless but recognize that those same traits that got them up to a point also brings about their downfall. Generally catastrophically for all involved.
   815. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:05 PM (#5628394)
I haven't seen it suggested that carrying a gun would be required of any teacher, just that some may volunteer and be trained to provide an additional level of security.


I know a lot of pilots, and most signed up to be FFDOs after 9/11. Most have quit due to the onerous requirements to keep up the rating. And unlike teachers, most of those guys were ex-military. Arming teachers will likely not be the boon you are hoping for.
   816. BDC Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:11 PM (#5628397)
I think that liability issues would make arming teachers a non-starter of an idea in almost all districts. Maybe it'll fly in Libertario, Montana where there are those grizzly-bear attacks at recess, but not many other places.
   817. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5628399)
I can't imagine a teacher with a gun in their desk is going to be safe or effective. Hell, I recall kids stealing things out of teacher's desks all the time when I was a kid. I can't imagine how often that will happen when ordinary citizens have to make sure their guns are secure. There is also a tendency to see a reason to use a tool you have in your possession and then to use that tool regardless of whether or not it should be used. If you think cops use of deadly force is occasionally unjustified just wait when you have some home ec teacher having a bad day with a rambunctious kid in their class. And if you actually have an active shooter in your school what then? 30 teachers wandering around a school in a uncoordinated fashion? That should end well.
   818. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5628400)
Here's a pre-election article that explains what I'm talking about re Clinton wasting resources on trying to flip blood red states, and laughably so.
I guess it's obvious to Dilbert why Hillary getting 45.5% of the vote in a state makes it retroactively "laughable" to campaign there, while Trump getting 47.5% of the vote in Michigan makes him a Very Stable Genius.
   819. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:19 PM (#5628401)

If you're the type of monster who likes to laugh at other people's downfalls, you'll want to find out what kind of a week the late Milo Yiannopoulos has been having.
I know he dropped his doomed-from-the-outset lawsuit. Anything else?
   820. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5628405)
Maybe 2020 will be the year you’re finally allowed to carry guns at the RNC.
   821. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:29 PM (#5628406)
I can't imagine a teacher with a gun in their desk is going to be safe or effective. Hell, I recall kids stealing things out of teacher's desks all the time when I was a kid. I can't imagine how often that will happen when ordinary citizens have to make sure their guns are secure.
I'm pretty sure that any conception of this plan would involve keeping guns in lockboxes in the classroom; they're not just sticking them in the top drawer of their desks under copies of next week's pop quiz.
There is also a tendency to see a reason to use a tool you have in your possession and then to use that tool regardless of whether or not it should be used. If you think cops use of deadly force is occasionally unjustified just wait when you have some home ec teacher having a bad day with a rambunctious kid in their class.
About as likely as the shop teacher hitting rambunctious kids with hammers or using power saws on them.
And if you actually have an active shooter in your school what then? 30 teachers wandering around a school in a uncoordinated fashion? That should end well.
Setting aside that anti-gun nuts have been inaccurately predicting shootouts every time a jurisdiction allows gun carry, I think the theory is that the teachers can protect their classes, not that they're going to go on search and destroy missions.
   822. -- Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5628407)
I'm pretty sure that any conception of this plan would involve keeping guns in lockboxes in the classroom


Then they'll be useless in the face of an AR-15 attack. Initiative lost, panic, etc.

Meanwhile, a bunch of kids will be dead. A bunch of kids will be dead even if the lockbox is unlocked perfectly and the teacher kills the gunman. Best case isn't that no kids are killed, but only that fewer are killed.

Not really the preferred path.
   823. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5628408)
There is also a tendency to see a reason to use a tool you have in your possession and then to use that tool regardless of whether or not it should be used. If you think cops use of deadly force is occasionally unjustified just wait when you have some home ec teacher having a bad day with a rambunctious kid in their class.

This is quite similar to the arguments made against easing Right-To-Carry restrictions. It was widely predicted that those with concealed weapons would turn every traffic fender-bender into a shootout. That didn't happen. Law abiding citizens tend to be law abiding. Funny that.
   824. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:37 PM (#5628409)
Milo the Hobbled Troll went from his inept self-representation in court on Monday, to hitting the eject button on himself on Tuesday, to pretending to enjoy the delicious taste of Alex Jones' sawdust vitality pills today.

Not that things had gone any better for him two weeks ago.
   825. zenbitz Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5628410)
Post 807 is why you should take sbb off ignore. That was a quality burn. To be fair the signal to noise ratio is like a billion to one, but credit where credit is due.
   826. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5628411)
I'm pretty sure that any conception of this plan would involve keeping guns in lockboxes in the classroom; they're not just sticking them in the top drawer of their desks under copies of next week's pop quiz.

I'm pretty sure about that as well. Doesn't prevent theft and teachers making boneheaded mistakes with their gun.

About as likely as the shop teacher hitting rambunctious kids with hammers or using power saws on them.

Except with a gun and its training you are telling a teacher to use deadly force when they think it is warranted. People do stupid things. Arming thousands of people and having that weapon available to them 5 days a week will lead to gun accidents and unreasonable use of force. Now maybe in your calculations the amount will be small enough that what you think it prevents or protects outweighs it but generally that is not how society reacts. We are reactionary. Some teacher guns down a kid with an airsoft rifle and their will be a national outrage about arming teachers and the nations isn't going to be able to factor that having guns prevented 24 mass shootings because people generally cannot comprehend that which did not happen especially when comparing it to that which did happen.

Setting aside that anti-gun nuts have been inaccurately predicting shootouts every time a jurisdiction allows gun carry, I think the theory is that the teachers can protect their classes, not that they're going to go on search and destroy missions.

This is odd because being more relaxed in regards to gun laws has led to more gun mistakes. People with carry licenses and conceal and carry have shot themselves and others. They've had their guns taken away from them when they've decided to act and they have even been killed because they felt the need to get involved.
   827. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:44 PM (#5628412)

This is quite similar to the arguments made against easing Right-To-Carry restrictions. It was widely predicted that those with concealed weapons would turn every traffic fender-bender into a shootout. That didn't happen. Law abiding citizens tend to be law abiding. Funny that.


Except giving cops weapons has led to, shocker, more death by weapons. If the criteria is "every traffic fender-bender" then yes who ever foolishly spoke in hyperbole was wrong but that shouldn't be the threshold in regards to whether or not to do something.

If you give a 2 million people each a stick you will have more stick related incidents than if you didn't give 2 million people a stick. That's just basic probability at work. The idea that more people walking around with a loaded gun wouldn't create more gun related incidents is absurd.
   828. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 21, 2018 at 09:48 PM (#5628413)
A mandatory five cops per school is a way better idea. Armed drones flying over every school is a better idea. Cloning Bitter Mouse and assigning one to every school to bore would-be killers to death with a cavalcade of banalities is a better idea.


Not a lot of people can write good prose and although yours is usually filled with absurdities -- it is good prose. Are you sure you weren't a writer or something and not a lawyer? Lawyers write like ray and dave.
   829. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:02 PM (#5628415)
Except with a gun and its training you are telling a teacher to use deadly force when they think it is warranted.
No. You'd be telling teachers that they can use guns if and only if there is an active shooter in the building.
   830. Howie Menckel Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:02 PM (#5628416)
This is going to be state of the art wall

Art Wall won the 1959 Masters by chasing down Arnold Palmer down the stretch, and no one older than him (age 51-7) has won a PGA Tour event since he captured the 1975 Greater Milwaukee Open.

the 45 career holes-in-one, also cool

coincidence?
   831. Srul Itza Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:03 PM (#5628417)
Arming teachers will likely not be the boon you are hoping for.


All police officers are required to carry their fire-arms, and to regularly qualify.

Leaving aside all the cases where these highly trained law enforcement officers lost their shit and start shooting when they shouldn't, how many times have you read about cases here a bunch of cops get into a shoot out, fire 70-80 shots, and maybe three are on target. So where do the others go....?

But hey, sure, go arm one the teachers -- the same people you regularly excoriate as incompetent for a dozen different reasons.

What could go wrong?
   832. Lassus Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:03 PM (#5628418)
Gas Tax Increase Would Hit Trump States Hardest, Koch Groups Say
A federal gas tax increase to help pay for upgrading U.S. roads and bridges would fall hardest on states won by Donald Trump in 2016, according to a report released Tuesday by two groups tied to the billionaire Koch brothers and opposed to increasing the levy.

The impact of raising the gas tax by 25 cents per gallon, as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has suggested and Trump reportedly has offered to support, would vary widely from state to state because of differences in the current tax rate and fuel consumption, the report by Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Partners shows. Of the top 10 states identified by the groups as facing the highest percentage increase in total gas tax liability, Trump won nine.

At least Killary isn't in office.
   833. Lassus Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5628419)
No. You'd be telling teachers that they can use guns if and only if there is an active shooter in the building.

What if some kid won't shut up about Howard Roark?
   834. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5628420)
All police officers are required to carry their fire-arms, and to regularly qualify.

Leaving aside all the cases where these highly trained law enforcement officers lost their #### and start shooting when they shouldn't, how many times have you read about cases here a bunch of cops get into a shoot out, fire 70-80 shots, and maybe three are on target. So where do the others go....?
Law enforcement officers are not highly trained.
   835. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5628421)
Maybe 2020 will be the year you’re finally allowed to carry guns at the RNC.

Put that on PPV and the RNC could finance its next five election cycles, assuming there were any surviving Republicans to run for office.
   836. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5628422)

What if some kid won't shut up about Howard Roark?
Then you should probably listen; you might learn something.
   837. BDC Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:14 PM (#5628423)
any conception of this plan would involve keeping guns in lockboxes

Trump specifically said “concealed carry,” but of course it’s not clear that Trump statements are “conceptions.”
   838. Lassus Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:15 PM (#5628425)
Then you should probably listen; you might learn something.

Who to use as a human shield.
   839. McCoy Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:22 PM (#5628427)
re 829. Yes the government has always been good at containing their habits of embiggening that which they get involved in.


We also tell cops to only use their guns when the danger is real and yet somehow they keep on killing people that pose absolutely no threat to anyone.
   840. Srul Itza Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5628428)
Law enforcement officers are not highly trained.


But the teachers will be?

Are you really expecting better results?

Oh and Shame on you, for denigrating our brave first responders, New York's Finest.


[EDIT: And it's time to take your sarcasm/irony detector in for its 100,000 post check up.]
   841. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:25 PM (#5628429)
At least Killary isn't in office.


Don't worry, someone will just tell him Obama was for it as well and the idea will go poof.

Such a tax should be debated by policy experts, but those seem in short supply.
   842. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 21, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5628430)
No. You'd be telling teachers that they can use guns if and only if there is an active shooter in the building.

What if some kid won't shut up about Howard Roark?



A is AAAAAAAAA!!!!!
   843. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:05 PM (#5628434)
Except with a gun and its training you are telling a teacher to use deadly force when they think it is warranted.

No. You'd be telling teachers that they can use guns if and only if there is an active shooter in the building.


It's a well known fact that people that have access to guns always use them in the prescribed and proper method.
   844. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:14 PM (#5628436)
   845. OCF Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:20 PM (#5628437)
I saw a little local story this evening that at the large high school that is a block from my house, a student (a "male juvenile") was arrested by the School Resource officer (a position much discussed above) for making a "verbal threat." Threat of what? Not in the story, which makes it hard to evaluate. And there were rumors all day about some kind of pending attack at the large high school my children attended. (Or that could have been about some other school with a similar name in some other place. It was a rumor, after all.) Meanwhile, a dozen miles away, sheriff's deputies investigated a threat to another high school and found a student who owned an arsenal.

Yes, a lot of this is just noise. But how is anyone to know which needle in the haystack is real?
   846. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5628438)
Marco Rubio fails to read the room in a SPECTACULAR FASHION.


I saw that live. Rubio's reacion was priceless. "You mean, you ant to ban every semi automatc rifle? Surley you can't be serious."

OTOH, he was orders of magnitude more eloquent on the issue than Bill Nelson. God help us! I mean, I won't vote for Skeletor over him but Jeeze, give me something I can work with!
   847. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5628439)
Harvard/Harris Poll: Trump Job Approval Gains As Voters Warm To Tax Bill:
President Trump’s job approval rating has rebounded from its low point as voters warm to the GOP tax bill and express optimism over the economy, according to the latest Harvard CAPS/Harris poll, viewed first by The Hill. Forty-five percent of voters approve of the job Trump is doing. That’s up from 41 percent in December, the low point for his presidency in the Harvard CAPS/Harris poll. . . . According to the RealClearPolitics average of polls, Trump is at 41.8 approval, up from his December low of 37.1.
. . .
Forty-eight percent of voters say the economy is on the right track, against 39 who said t's on the wrong track. That compares favorably to voters' views of the country overall — only 37 percent say the nation as a whole is on the right track, while 54 percent say it is on the wrong track.
. . .
“The 57 percent who approve of the job he is doing on the economy is the highest positive number he has ever achieved,” Penn said.

With many not yet aware that 80% of households are getting a tax cut, there could be more movement.

   848. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:35 PM (#5628443)
You unhinged TDSers keep beclowning yourselves again and again. When will you realize that Donald Trump was a visionary genius for believing he could flip a state that the Democrats had won by 9.5% (MI), while Hillary Clinton was a deluded fool to even dream she could flip a state that Republicans had won by 9% (AZ)?


This response might have been a SICK BURN in a world in which Trump's strategy didn't win out.
   849. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:36 PM (#5628444)
There’s no sense hiding where we are with this right now.

Thousands of teachers will leave and not enter the profession rather than have to train and carry a gun around, and be expected to use it. Parents by the thousands will pull their kids out of schools where all the teachers are armed.


Nobody said anything about mandatory training or possession. You'll get a significant fraction of teachers willing to do this.

   850. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:39 PM (#5628445)
I think that liability issues would make arming teachers a non-starter of an idea in almost all districts. Maybe it'll fly in Libertario, Montana where there are those grizzly-bear attacks at recess, but not many other places.


What do you mean, more specifically, by liability issues?

Existing law is equipped to handle this. No changes need be made.
   851. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:41 PM (#5628446)
I can't imagine a teacher with a gun in their desk is going to be safe or effective. Hell, I recall kids stealing things out of teacher's desks all the time when I was a kid. I can't imagine how often that will happen when ordinary citizens have to make sure their guns are secure. There is also a tendency to see a reason to use a tool you have in your possession and then to use that tool regardless of whether or not it should be used. If you think cops use of deadly force is occasionally unjustified just wait when you have some home ec teacher having a bad day with a rambunctious kid in their class. And if you actually have an active shooter in your school what then? 30 teachers wandering around a school in a uncoordinated fashion? That should end well.


We might do better to respond to arguments actually being made. I suggested a lockbox that the principal or VP or some higher up could activate only in an active shooter scenario, after which teachers would need to use their fingerprints to authenticate and open the safe.

And mainly this would be to protect classrooms in case the shooter came in.
   852. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:43 PM (#5628447)
Nobody said anything about mandatory training or possession. You'll get a significant fraction of teachers willing to do this.


Oh good. That will work out great! Give teacher a gun, hope for the best.
   853. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:45 PM (#5628448)
I suggested a lockbox that the principal or VP or some higher up could activate only in an active shooter scenario, after which teachers would need to use their fingerprints to authenticate and open the safe.


What color is the sky in the planet you live in?
   854. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:49 PM (#5628451)
Rep Hakeem Jefferies: Donald Trump is like Archie Bunker without the charm.

Triple thumbs up!
   855. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:54 PM (#5628453)
Oh good. That will work out great! Give teacher a gun, hope for the best.


How surprising. Those in favor of stricter gun control laws but claim they're not for banning gus oppose teachers having guns.

What is the primary goal in the push for much stricter gun control laws? It's, nominally, to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people who would shoot up a school. Yet that appears to be a pretext; the opposition to the proposal to arming teachers gives the game away, because in this proposal only those teachers who have passed your much ballyhooed "strict background checks" would be able to have access to a gun on campus, and at that access would only be for the purpose of an active shooter scenario. And yet the proposal is being opposed, because of blind ideology.

I'm not one with a dog in the gun control fight; I think gun nuts are loony men with small penises and yet the 2nd Amendment is in place to allow them their penis extensions. So I can see quite objectively that we have a disastrous problem with school shootings that calls for open-minded strategies, of which arming teachers is one. Folks with agendas OTOH can't see it.

No amount of "gun control" will eliminate the 10 minutes that a shooter has to go around shooting up a school unchallenged, with no armed person on campus to combat him, which is the actual problem. The shooter knows that he has 10 minutes unchallenged; that's part of why a school is a target -- they're gun-free zones. The shooter knows that he's brought a gun to the gun fight and nobody else has. This is a ridiculous state of affairs for a modern society to find itself in, and the situation has to be equalized if we want to have a chance at stopping it, and no amount of gun banning is going to do that.

You're letting ideology get in the way of a rational solution to the problem.
   856. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:58 PM (#5628456)
What is the primary goal in the push for much stricter gun control laws? It's, nominally, to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people who would shoot up a school. Yet that appears to be a pretext; the opposition to the proposal to arming teachers gives the game away, because in this proposal only those teachers who passed strict background checks would be able to have access to a gun on campus and at that access would only be for the purpose of an active shooter scenario. And yet the proposal is being opposed, because of blind ideology.


You fool. The mockery was all about the armed people having no training. That may not concern you, but that's because you are a fool.
   857. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 21, 2018 at 11:59 PM (#5628457)
What color is the sky in the planet you live in?


One in which the school shooter gets a head start of 10 free minutes to murder children without anyone else with a gun showing up on the scene.

What color is the sky in yours?
   858. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:01 AM (#5628459)
You fool. The mockery was all about the armed people having no training. That may not concern you, but that's because you are a fool.


Yet another strawman in a haystack of them.

Nobody was suggesting that the volunteering teachers not be trained.
   859. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:01 AM (#5628460)
What color is the sky in yours?


One which is not in a James Bond movie.
   860. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:02 AM (#5628461)
Nobody was suggesting that the volunteering teachers not be trained.


You did.
   861. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:07 AM (#5628464)
What color is the sky in yours?

One which is not in a James Bond movie.


Open your eyes. That's exactly the situation we're dealing with. An armed shooter with an AR-15 going through a school picking off unarmed victims including many children like fish in a barrel.

Actually it's worse than a Bond movie.
   862. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:08 AM (#5628465)
Nobody was suggesting that the volunteering teachers not be trained.


You did.


Nope. Wrong again. I'm beginning to think you're being disingenuous in your responses.

All I suggested was that teachers not be forced to do this; those who wanted to would have training.
   863. Traderdave Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:14 AM (#5628466)
Ray,

What, if any, experience do you have with guns? Long term gun owner? Military or police training? Ever hunted and then field dressed the kill to see what a bullet does? Can you strip and clean a firearm?
   864. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:19 AM (#5628467)
Open your eyes. That's exactly the situation we're dealing with. An armed shooter with an AR-15 going through a school picking off unarmed victims including many children like fish in a barrel.

Actually it's worse than a Bond movie.


Your proposal was for a gun lockbox to be unlocked by someone in the front office by electronic button. Who's delusional here?
   865. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:24 AM (#5628468)
Your proposal was for a gun lockbox to be unlocked by someone in the front office by electronic button. Who's delusional here?


Still you. As well as having a reading comprehension problem. I suggested a lockbox that the principal or VP or some higher up could activate only in an active shooter scenario, after which teachers would need to use their fingerprints to authenticate and open the safe.
   866. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:26 AM (#5628470)
Still you. As well as having a reading comprehension problem. I suggested a lockbox that the principal or VP or some higher up could activate only in an active shooter scenario, after which teachers would need to use their fingerprints to authenticate and open the safe.


That's not better. It's the stuff of Sci Fi fantasy that you eshew in favor of Columbo.
   867. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:27 AM (#5628471)
Where we are as a nation: Libertarians are arguing we should give guns to the NEA.
   868. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:43 AM (#5628473)
Where we are as a nation: Libertarians are arguing we should give guns to the NEA.


Where we are as a nation: Children being executed in schools.

We need to mitigate the advantage the shooter has in those first 10 minutes. Every solution that doesn't address that lacks efficacy.

   869. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:44 AM (#5628474)
Okay, that second penalty on you all was rubbish, but that slashing penalty we took was bullshit, so I think it evens out.
   870. Ray (CTL) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:49 AM (#5628475)
That's not better. It's the stuff of Sci Fi fantasy that you eshew in favor of Columbo.


We have self-driving cars now. We can have lockboxes.
   871. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:50 AM (#5628476)
We have self-driving cars now. We can have lockboxes.


Or we can just install automated turrets that shoot anything that moves.
   872. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 12:54 AM (#5628477)
We have self-driving cars now. We can have lockboxes.


Will they automatically deploy when a fire-alarm is pulled?
   873. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:19 AM (#5628478)
Sure. Or when the smoke alarm goes off. Plus, you'd need to have live fire drills every couple of days.
   874. canadian shield Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:20 AM (#5628479)
What's the cost of the principal button that allows all of the fingerprint secured gun safes to be opened by all the teachers that have them? Who pays for that? That's a lot of hardware, wiring, and control systems. Some schools don't have dedicated home rooms and the teachers use different rooms based on their schedule. Why not just increase background checks and limit magazine sizes?
   875. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:30 AM (#5628480)
All I suggested was that teachers not be forced to do this; those who wanted to would have training.


So, if a teacher doesn't want to take the training, does that mean they don't get a magic gun safe* in their classroom? Or their fingerprints don't open the safe?
Or do the untrained teachers still get access to the gun?

*You have it with TWO locking mechanisms (both of which have to be unlocked for it to open), one of which is remotely activated**, and the other scans a set of fingerprints (since multiple teachers use the same room).

**So the principal determines there is an active shooter and hits a button that 1/2 unlocks (sort of) ALL of the safes simultaneously? What if the principal is unaware of the active shooter in his school because he's on the phone? What if the principal is away from the button in his office? Is the button ALSO fingerprint activated for just the principal, or could a janitor press the button if he wanted to?
   876. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:31 AM (#5628481)
Where we are as a nation: Children being executed in schools.

LOL. If you're so politically impotent that you can't advocate the obvious policy choice, then you don't get to use this rhetoric.

But I guess I should be happy that you're not calling for deployment of slaughterbots. I assume that's next, when the NEA-with-guns idea gets laughed out of the room by everyone but gun manufacturers.

   877. canadian shield Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:31 AM (#5628482)
In Canada, the magazine size for long guns is 5. If that shooter had multiple 5 round magazines to change there would have been less carnage. You could respond with 'he would have used illegal magazines if that restriction was in place!' but that's just a ridiculous slope to 'he could have setup an MG42 at the front door!' This shooting, Vegas, and Sandy Hook were all done with legal weapons. Whats the downside to magazine restrictions? (cue slippery slope in 3..2..1..)
   878. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 01:36 AM (#5628483)
What's the cost of the principal button that allows all of the fingerprint secured gun safes to be opened by all the teachers that have them?


"I think you take costs into account, but what's the cost of freedom?


Me? All my eggs are in the ED-209 basket!

[edit] I probably owe some sort of fizzy beverage to #876 ...
   879. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: February 22, 2018 at 02:24 AM (#5628486)
Whats the downside to magazine restrictions? (cue slippery slope in 3..2..1..)

Accuracy. People don't aim guns like James Bond, especially in high-pressure situations. Needing multiple magazines gives the person who chose to initiate a larger advantage in preparation.

And yes, slippery slope *is* an argument because it *has* happened with high-capacity magazines. First, above 10 was "high-capacity" then NY argued it was 7 and you're arguing 5 is what's reasonable. What's next, 3? 1? Then one can argue "well, with only bullet, it's not good for defense so it doesn't matter if it's banned."

The NRA should be as suspicious of people arguing "what's the downside" of gun restrictions as Planned Parenthood is about people arguing "reasonable" restrictions on abortion. When your opponents are arguing in bad faith, there's no reason to give them a millimeter.

But hey, if 5 bullets is all you need for self-defense, then make the police and Secret Service also only have 5 bullets in their guns.

   880. canadian shield Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:18 AM (#5628487)
Accuracy. People don't aim guns like James Bond, especially in high-pressure situations. Needing multiple magazines gives the person who chose to initiate a larger advantage in preparation.

Indeed, the one who initiated this FLA shooting had a very large advantage. Are you saying that you need high capacity magazines so you can defend your castle with multiple magazine changes? If you want to defend your castle, get a shotgun and you'll be fine. (if you need more than 5 rounds in your AR15 to defend yourself you might be scarface)
And yes, slippery slope *is* an argument because it *has* happened with high-capacity magazines. First, above 10 was "high-capacity" then NY argued it was 7 and you're arguing 5 is what's reasonable. What's next, 3? 1? Then one can argue "well, with only bullet, it's not good for defense so it doesn't matter if it's banned."
Ah yes, restricting to 5 leads to 1 just like what has happened here in Canada (NB: we don't have a castle doctrine here). It's an impossible argument to counter with your hypothetical. So New York has changed the "high-capacity" law from >10 to 7? Is that a bad thing? Is that a slippery slope to single shot muskets?
The NRA should be as suspicious of people arguing "what's the downside" of gun restrictions as Planned Parenthood is about people arguing "reasonable" restrictions on abortion. When your opponents are arguing in bad faith, there's no reason to give them a millimeter.
Wow that's a great comparison, is there a public problem of mass non-consensual abortions happening in schools and Las Vegas concerts? The 2nd amendment is the law of the land, there will be no banning of guns. A magazine restriction to <10 rounds is a valid restriction on what arms the well regulated militia can wield (I believe).
But hey, if 5 bullets is all you need for self-defense, then make the police and Secret Service also only have 5 bullets in their guns.
I don't have any bullets for self-defense. I have guns, I don't keep ammo in the house. To paraphrase the comedian Jim Jeffries, "You think that people are coming to murder your family? How many ####### enemies do you have?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

   881. canadian shield Posted: February 22, 2018 at 03:36 AM (#5628488)
Watching Rubio and the NRA female rep at the FLA town-hall I see a difference from Sandy Hook. It may not lead anywhere but the cover has been blown off. When Sandy Hook happened there was 'gridlock in the capital' issues and Info-wars: 'false flag!' BS that muddied the waters. Now it's all Republicans in power at all levels. So...what are they going to do about it? Some have tried some weak tea 'those aren't students, they're Soros actors!' or 'they're being used by the left!' but it looks like that's not polling well. It's possible that the Trump administration may end up as one of the most liberal ever just by removing all of the cover and claimed 'gridlock' that the Republicans have been using to stifle the popular liberal positions that poll well with the majority of Americans. The only possible upside of Orangemandius I guess, he might do some good things because his only motivation is chasing ratings. We shall see I suppose.
   882. Ishmael Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:19 AM (#5628489)
You made that up. I've never made that argument.

Provide the citation.

I think this is in the spirit of what Misirlou is saying:

3382. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 20, 2015 at 01:54 PM (#4960378)
[snipped post Ray is responding to]
You don't bandy about the term "pro choice" unless you want people to think that's your general philosophy on things. Because it sounds great. And we see that in practice liberals apply it to abortion - and, yes, more generally to sex (*). But not to much else.

(*) Liberals don't apply the exact term "pro choice" to sex but they certainly apply the concept, speaking generally about sexual freedom, etc.

Link.
   883. DavidFoss Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:32 AM (#5628490)
First, above 10 was "high-capacity" then NY argued it was 7 and you're arguing 5 is what's reasonable. What's next, 3? 1? Then one can argue "well, with only bullet, it's not good for defense so it doesn't matter if it's banned."

In the movies guns always had six bullets. :-) For that reason, it would be hard to argue that 'high capacity' would be less than seven. I mean, you don't want to reshoot all of those movies.
   884. Ishmael Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:36 AM (#5628491)
The NRA should be as suspicious of people arguing "what's the downside" of gun restrictions as Planned Parenthood is about people arguing "reasonable" restrictions on abortion. When your opponents are arguing in bad faith, there's no reason to give them a millimeter.

Dan, (David, Ray etc.) do you think that there should be any legal restrictions on weapon ownership? I mean both what sorts of weapon ownership do you think the Second Amendment guarantees, and what restrictions or allowances would you introduce if you could impose your own unrestricted preferences?

   885. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:41 AM (#5628492)
Once again you dopes are going round and round with ridiculous proposals from a limited palate of pre-chewed options. YR, being a solutions-oriented guy living in the real world, keeps having to provide viable solutions because you pumpkins are stuck in the quagmire of your own creative limitation.

All you need to do is give each teacher a sword. Everyone knows if you outlaw guns, bad guys will find some other way to kill people just as efficiently because it is the evil intent in their heart that we need to fear, not the sizzling hot projectiles hurtling forth from at 100 rounds a minute. A sword, as you may need to be reminded, has been efficiently killing people for thousands of years. A sword will not discharge by accident and send out a murderous projectile at 3000 feet per second. A sword won’t need a high-tech magic lockbox requiring fingerprints and magic spells and a papal blessing before opening (they tried that during the Crusades).

Magic lockbox, LOL. You guys are something else.
   886. Chicago Joe Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:41 AM (#5628493)
A Pershing gun in every classroom would be kind of cool.
   887. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 05:58 AM (#5628495)
No. You'd be telling teachers that they can use guns if and only if there is an active shooter in the building.

What if some kid won't shut up about Howard Roark?


My advice would be to use the gun but only for pistol-whipping.
   888. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 06:14 AM (#5628498)
Bald, self-absorbed simpleton needs notes to remind him to pretend to care about peasants.

President Trump held a worthwhile listening session Wednesday featuring a range of views on how to combat gun violence in schools. And while Trump's at-times-meandering comments about arming teachers will certainly raise eyebrows, for the most part he did listen.

Thanks in part, it seems, to a helpful little reminder.

Washington Post photographer Ricky Carioti captured this image of Trump's notes:
   889. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2018 at 06:20 AM (#5628499)
As a nod to reality, we actually do not have self-driving cars now.
   890. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 06:32 AM (#5628500)
**So the principal determines there is an active shooter and hits a button that 1/2 unlocks (sort of) ALL of the safes simultaneously? What if the principal is unaware of the active shooter in his school because he's on the phone? What if the principal is away from the button in his office? Is the button ALSO fingerprint activated for just the principal, or could a janitor press the button if he wanted to?


Why not wire it to the fire alarm? Pull the alarm and an armored closet opens up spilling forth a variety of weapons for teacher and student alike - you aren’t the sort of monster who would deny children the right to self-defense against murderers are you? There would be a few guns of course, but also swords, knives, nunchucks, flash bang grenades, maybe a net with a trident, whatever seems appropriate.

This approach empowers schools to take responsibility for their own safety. What could be more American than this sort of rock-ribbed self-reliance?
   891. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: February 22, 2018 at 06:41 AM (#5628501)
Anyone supporting armed teacher militias is too goddamned stupid to live.
   892. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: February 22, 2018 at 07:46 AM (#5628504)
So I can see quite objectively

Christ, what an #######.
   893. Joe Bivens will never admit, will make some excuse Posted: February 22, 2018 at 08:02 AM (#5628506)
Pajama boy thinks some teachers want to be armed? Lol!
   894. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 08:03 AM (#5628507)
Where we are as a nation: Libertarians are arguing we should give guns to the NEA.
Liberals never have been able to tell the difference between unions and union members.
   895. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 08:04 AM (#5628508)

Why not just increase background checks and limit magazine sizes?
Why do either of those things? Is there any evidence that either would have ever done a thing to stop the very rare mass school shootings?
   896. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2018 at 08:08 AM (#5628509)
How do you think data for this type of evidence is actually created?

We could go the route for which there actually IS data from all first-world countries, but I doubt you'd like that.
   897. SandyRiver Posted: February 22, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5628513)
Fair enough, I can agree with that. Note the difference between our max capacity is hair splitting. What is important is the elimination of high capacity semiautos and I'm guessing we both agree on that.


And that would be a good guess. However, the post to which you had responded appeared to call for elimination of ALL pump/semi-auto firearms, no matter what the capacity, which goes beyond hairsplitting. Most hunter-purposed pump/semi-auto centerfires hold only 4 or 5 cartridges.
   898. manchestermets Posted: February 22, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5628514)
It's a shame Milo's dropped his case. Him representing himself was going to be some of the best comedy this year.
   899. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: February 22, 2018 at 08:27 AM (#5628515)
Until you guys support my proposal to put the dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you in every classroom, it's clear that you're not serious about the school execution problem, as Ray calls it.
   900. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 22, 2018 at 08:29 AM (#5628516)
Flip.
Page 9 of 23 pages ‹ First  < 7 8 9 10 11 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 2018 June 18: How Life Imitates the Congressional Baseball Game
(1509 - 7:24pm, Jun 23)
Last: Stormy JE

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (World Cup)
(918 - 7:23pm, Jun 23)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

NewsblogWeekend OMNICHATTER for June 23-24, 2018
(39 - 7:19pm, Jun 23)
Last: Jess Franco

NewsblogOT - 2018 NBA Summer Potpourri (finals, draft, free agency, Colangelo dragging)
(1855 - 7:13pm, Jun 23)
Last: sardonic

NewsblogBrewers first baseman Eric Thames goes on DL with torn thumb ligament
(50 - 5:49pm, Jun 23)
Last: Nasty Nate

NewsblogLate Yankees Pitching Coach Billy Connors: A Character With A Huge Appetite For Life
(21 - 5:49pm, Jun 23)
Last: Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB)

NewsblogMariners rallying to get Ichiro in Home Run Derby
(20 - 5:43pm, Jun 23)
Last: willcarrolldoesnotsuk

Sox TherapyA Pleasant Trip So Far
(53 - 5:11pm, Jun 23)
Last: Darren

NewsblogMike Trout Is Compiling a Historic Season and the Angels Are Wasting It Again
(53 - 2:15pm, Jun 23)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

Hall of Merit2019 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(123 - 1:07pm, Jun 23)
Last: Rob_Wood

NewsblogOMNICHATTER disagrees with your presentation, for June 22, 2018
(66 - 9:06am, Jun 23)
Last: Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

NewsblogKelvin Herrera Trade Start of Something Big for Nationals
(55 - 7:41pm, Jun 22)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogTaking Back the Ballparks - Arizona Diamondbacks
(24 - 7:13pm, Jun 22)
Last: QLE

NewsblogBBTF ANNUAL CENTRAL PARK SOFTBALL GAME 2018
(127 - 5:24pm, Jun 22)
Last: catomi01

Gonfalon CubsClicking
(92 - 3:57pm, Jun 22)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

Page rendered in 0.6567 seconds
47 querie(s) executed