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Monday, January 01, 2018

OTP 1 January 2018 - Athlete boycotts of White House didn’t start with Donald Trump — but he sure helped

Amateur teams began going to the White House as far back as the mid-1860s, while the first championship winning pro baseball team attended in 1925. That was the Washington Senators, winners of the previous year’s World Series. They were hosted by then-president Calvin Coolidge.

Teams that later followed include the Super Bowl-winning Pittsburgh Steelers. The squad was on hand for the same ceremony in 1980 with then-president Jimmy Carter as baseball’s Pittsburgh Pirates. In June 1991, the Penguins were the first NHL team to visit after capturing a title, meeting George H.W. Bush.

Bird’s decision to skip the visit in 1984 — usually consisting of handshakes and photo ops — is said to be the first snub of significance, even though he didn’t give political reasons.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 01, 2018 at 03:22 PM | 1771 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: champions, politics

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   501. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5600343)
Almost everybody here is immediately recognizable from posting style alone.


As I said, I don't play the meta game well. Sugar Bear is very easy to spot. Some others, who don't tend to change their handle completely probably as well. But most, aside from political allegiance, not so much.
   502. Traderdave Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5600344)
Speaking of book shopping... been looking for a good WWII history book. Been eying Clash of the Titans for a different perspective (i.e., presents the Eastern Front from the Soviet view). Any thoughts on that text or other WWII recommendations?


Adam Tooze, The Wages of Destruction. Very in-depth look at the German economy before and during the war. It's both fascinating & a fresh angle on a story told many times.
   503. BDC Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5600345)
Poverty-stricken is Madvillain.

Almost everybody here is immediately recognizable from posting style alone


Apologies to madvillain. I guess I go more by content. Madvillain if I remember is from Seattle and wont to complain about aggressive panhandlers there. Unless I am confused.

I doubt anybody would know who I was if I changed my handle, unless maybe I started insulting Mitch Moreland or complaining about the temperature at my ballpark.
   504. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5600348)
Almost everybody here is immediately recognizable from posting style alone.


I once emailed a friend about this site, and that I was posting on it but not under my real name. He emailed me back three minutes later with a two-word reply: "Gonfalon Bubble."
   505. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5600353)
#487

Maybe not ... from Gizmodo:


Intel has released a statement regarding this vulnerability. (You can read the statement in full here.)

The most significant part is that Intel claims this vulnerability is not unique to Intel CPUs. The statement says (bold is Gizmodo’s emphasis):

Recent reports that these exploits are caused by a “bug” or a “flaw” and are unique to Intel products are incorrect. Based on the analysis to date, many types of computing devices — with many different vendors’ processors and operating systems — are susceptible to these exploits.

This would mean the flaw could be found in computers containing AMD and even Qualcomm and ARM processors. We’ve reached out to those CPU manufacturers for comment and clarification and will update when we hear back.


[edit] coke to David
   506. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5600355)
Apologies to madvillain. I guess I go more by content. Madvillain if I remember is from Seattle and wont to complain about aggressive panhandlers there. Unless I am confused.


Yea there's no White Sox threads right now so I can't be found elsewhere (I self banned myself from the NBA thread) but here. Haven't posted in the gaming or soccer threads in a while either. Just staring out the window mostly waiting for spring.
   507. dlf Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5600356)
I doubt anybody would know who I was if I changed my handle, unless maybe I started insulting Mitch Moreland or complaining about the temperature at my ballpark.


Unless you intentionally tried to use a different voice, I suspect you are mistaken. You have one of the more memorable ways of analyzing current topics, have a tendency to post on a certain subset of topics beyond even the need for proper HVAC units in DFW, combined with a simple yet scholarly style that is unique and with over 31,000 examples over the years, there would be plenty of clues.
   508. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5600360)
Unless you intentionally tried to use a different voice, I suspect you are mistaken. You have one of the more memorable ways of analyzing current topics, have a tendency to post on a certain subset of topics beyond even the need for proper HVAC units in DFW, combined with a simple yet scholarly style that is unique and with over 31,000 examples over the years, there would be plenty of clues.

Thirded. Count me as part of the BDClique.
   509. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5600361)
I admit I was able to spot Cofvefe as Zonk fairly quickly
   510. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5600362)
There are many people here who would be recognizable -- Andy, Ray, SBB, BDC, Sam, me (I think), OJ, YC, YR, BM, Good Face (at least if we're talking about politics; he's more sane in other areas), Morty -- but many others who all blur together in my mind into some sort of amorphous lefty blob.
   511. zack Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5600366)
amorphous lefty blob.

Redistribution of mass shall immediately follow the redistribution of wealth!
   512. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5600368)
OK, this sounds like a challenge. We should all change our handle to an eight digit number and see how long it takes to out each other...
   513. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5600372)
Yeah good luck picking me out of the crowd at Stormfront or James Woods' Twitter feed, normies.

Amusingly enough I was at a conference last month and ran into a fellow boxing enthusiast. We chatted, he asked which forums I contributed to, and it turns out he knew my "nom de goon" and remembered something I'd written some time ago about Ray Arcel.
   514. dlf Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5600373)
There are many people here who would be recognizable -- Andy, Ray, SBB, BDC, Sam, me (I think), OJ, YC, YR, BM, Good Face (at least if we're talking about politics; he's more sane in other areas), Morty -- but many others who all blur together in my mind into some sort of amorphous lefty blob.


You've listed most of the frequent posters to OTP. I'd add a few more from all points of view including snapper, Dan, ishmael, Misir, JE, Zonk, OG, Gonfalon, MikeA, and (the departed?) RonJ. I can't, for the life of me, keep the Gregs straight though.

Edit: I just realized how sad that is. I spend waaaaay too much time here.
   515. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:48 PM (#5600377)
Where the hell is Ron, anyway?
   516. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:48 PM (#5600378)
Srul, Shredder, BBC, Walt Davis. Meatwad.
   517. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5600379)
Adam Tooze, The Wages of Destruction. Very in-depth look at the German economy before and during the war. It's both fascinating & a fresh angle on a story told many times

Thanks, but I actually read it in Summer 2016. It was a great read and dispelled a number of myths about the "Nazi economic miracle." Bought it right after DJT secured the nomination and was interested in seeing what career opportunities might be for an economist under a fascist regime (semi-serious).
   518. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5600380)
amorphous lefty blob.


Yeah, yeah. I know I need to lose weight.
   519. dlf Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:55 PM (#5600382)
Yeah, yeah. I know I need to lose weight.


You, my friend, are not amorphous.

...

Thinking about it, there are posters who've been gone from here for quite a while (Brattain, Harveys, Vincences, Enders, Dial, etc.) who if they either elected to or found a way to post from where they are now would immediately be recognizable.
   520. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5600384)
Otherwise, killing time -- possibly a poor choice of words under the circumstances -- until heading over to my hometown for my sister's visitation at the funeral home. Funeral is tomorrow at 11 a.m.

In the meantime, for some reason an editor/publisher/comic artist is paying me to write my reminiscences of being in junior high a few miles from Fouke, Ark., site of The Legend of Boggy Creek, while the alleged sightings leading up to that landmark-in-certain-circles movie were the stuff of local headlines & then during the film's making & release. Drove over there a couple of hours ago (it's only about 20 miles, if that, from the motel where I'm typing this) for the first time since the Southern Baptist church choir I was in sang there in probably '75 at the very latest. (Looking back, I dunno if I was an atheist then, but I was sure as hell well on the way to it.) Till just now that was the only time I'd been there. Took some pix for the article I'm writing.
   521. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:59 PM (#5600385)
Thinking about it, there are posters who've been gone from here for quite a while (Brattain, Harveys, Vincences, Enders, Dial, etc.) who if they either elected to or found a way to post from where they are now would immediately be recognizable.


I miss Harveys. As a lurker who only occasionally posts, you all should know that you are minor celebrities in my life, no matter what your political stripes are.
   522. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5600387)
You, my friend, are not amorphous.


I regret to report that my waistline disagrees. (I've decided the dozen or so prescriptions I'm on have slowed my metabolism to a standstill. That's just got to be why I weigh twice what I did in grad school. Right?)

Edit: Weigh, not way. Jesus god in the morning.
   523. Omineca Greg Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:04 PM (#5600389)
Where the hell is Ron, anyway?

After he hadn't posted for the longest time I was worried about him, thinking he might be sick or dead.

But then he popped up on one of the threads, and so I was quite relieved.
   524. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5600390)
Stevenson could have stayed atop the D ticket - and instead, pushed for Solidarity on the two spots that the loathesome LaRouchies wrested. But he didn't.

Zonk doesn't have that quite right. Illinois law required the Governor & Lt. Governor nominees to run as team and share a single spot on the ballot. It wasn't possible to vote for Stevenson on the Democratic line without also voting for the LaRouchie Lt. Governor candidate. To win as a Democrat, Stevenson would have had to convince the voters that he was such a good candidate, and/or the GOP nominee was so bad, that they should elect him and run the risk of having a LaRouche follower a heart beat away from being Governor. Not surprisingly, most political observers thought that'd be an extremely tough sell, so Stevenson and other "normal" Democrats chose to run on a different label, as Democrats who just happen to be on another ballot line. Pragmatically, that was probably Stevenson's best chance, but the insistence that Illinois Democrats were motivated by their superior morality is quite a stretch, even by OTP standards. They made a pragmatic political decision while portraying themselves as being virtuous, but again, they were choosing from bad options and were unable to escape the electoral consequences that came from that.
   525. BDC Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5600391)
AND OF COURSE DON'T FORGET TOLAXOR
   526. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5600392)
What happened to BBC? I hope she reconciled with the Astros in time to be excited that they won in her lifetime. I remember that she was super mad when they moved to the AL.
   527. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:07 PM (#5600393)
Speaking of which, SBB seems to have slunk off.


He hasn't been seen since I offered to come to the softball game, oddly enough.
   528. dlf Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:09 PM (#5600394)
gef - my condolences on your loss. Having grown up with a special needs family member too, I know you had challenges, but the joy they can show and share makes it worthwhile and your sister will be missed.
   529. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5600395)
AND OF COURSE DON'T FORGET TOLAXOR


Admiral Akbar dies.
   530. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5600396)
From memory this is the list I have of current OTP posters:

CONSERVATIVES
Yankee Clapper
JE

HARDER RIGHT?
Good Face

LIBERTARIANS
David
Ray (though David would disagree)

SUI GENERIS
SBB

INDEPENDENT
Howie Menckel

UNCLASSIFIABLE
OJ
Morty
Hysterical & Useless
Swoboda (right?)
The Gregs
dlf
mrams

THE AMORPHOUS LEFTY BLOB
Zenbitz
Zonk
Andy
McCoy
Peptech
BDC
TraderDave
Sam
Random Transaction Generator
Joe Bivens
Greenback
Shredder
Srul
Gef
Fancy Pants
Joyful Calculus Instructor
Ishmael
Count
Misirlie
villageidiom
BrianBrianson
TShipman
PreservedFish
Mets Fan Charlie
Nate
TDF
Sleepy's
YR
Billy Ripken
CoB
BDC
BM
Madvillain
Hot Wheeling American
Gonfalon
Lassus
DavidFoss
Trout

--

But tell us again, Andy, how the lefties posting here don't massively outnumber the right/libertarians.
   531. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5600397)
I'm more libertarian than you are, Ray.
   532. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5600399)
Thinking about it, there are posters who've been gone from here for quite a while (Brattain, Harveys, Vincences, Enders, Dial, etc.) who if they either elected to or found a way to post from where they are now would immediately be recognizable.


Snapper, Eraser-X, Mefisto, Jeff K.
   533. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5600400)
Miserlou is a conservative.
   534. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5600402)
you can toss me into the amorphous lefty blob as well. :)
   535. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5600403)
Clapper is a party shill. He is neither liberal nor conservative. He is whatever needs to be said to get a vote to the R column.

Jason is reactionary, not conservative.
   536. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5600404)
I'm more libertarian than you are, Ray.

Thirded
   537. dlf Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5600406)
I'm not sure if I should be thrilled to be unclassifiable or incredibly offended to be classed with OJ.
   538. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5600407)
dlf, if you want me to move you from the box of chocolates group to another group, feel free to classify yourself.

You seem more middle of the road to me -- or at least non-controversial.

Trout, I have so placed you.
   539. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:20 PM (#5600408)
There's a lot of variation within the Amorphous Lefty Blob.
   540. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5600409)
Thinking Trump is a pathetic hot mess <> lefty. For example, Kasich, Romney, Bannon...
   541. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5600410)
But tell us again, Andy, how the lefties posting here don't massively outnumber the right/libertarians.


Not our fault that the existance of Trump drove most of the righties away. snapper and bobm are two that quickly come to mind. And d'zop or whatever he's calling himself these days is very conservative.

edit:

Thinking Trump is a pathetic hot mess <> lefty.


yes, that too.

Also. Before candidate Trump became nominee Trump, there was a much more equal balance here. Many adults on the right went away rather than deal with the hot mess, while many former lurkers on the left began speaking up.
   542. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:26 PM (#5600412)
But tell us again, Andy, how the lefties posting here don't massively outnumber the right/libertarians.

I love some of those names you put in some of those categories. Just to take one of the more obvious examples, when someone spends 99% of his time here railing against "modern liberals", I doubt if too many people would classify him only as "Sui Generis", even if he thinks Washington Redskins fans are kissing cousins to Hitler.

And for Christ's sake, OJ is about as unclassifiable as Steve Bannon.
   543. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:31 PM (#5600415)
It doesn't seem likely that anyone could have convinced Moore to drop out, and since they were past the statutory deadline for replacing candidates on the ballot, the Alabama GOP didn't have any realistic options, either. Sure, party leaders could have tried to mount a write-in campaign for a more palatable candidate, but that would have also lead to the seat going to the Democrats. In American politics, there are no good options when a bad candidate wins the nomination. There's no Politburo to just push him/her aside.
So instead of doing the right thing, forcing the evil person off their label, and maybe losing, the R's chose to go all in on the evil person wearing a big scarlet R. And lost anyway.

The whole thing was really quite beautiful.
   544. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5600416)
yes, that too.

Also. Before candidate Trump became nominee Trump, there was a much more equal balance here.


No, there wasn't.

Many adults on the right went away rather than deal with the hot mess, while many former lurkers on the left began speaking up.


And people like Mefisto left.

Srul and even BM were gone for a stretch.

I can name other lefties that don't post here anymore -- I had to cull some of them from the list after I did the first cut.

--

Regardless, what is the contention offered here? That this board isn't overwhelmingly lefty and hasn't always been?

Also: If you disagree with my list, let me know and if the disagreement is valid I'll reclassify. Simply saying "Oh, "thinking Trump is a pathetic hot mess <> lefty", or "I love some of those names you put in some of those categories" doesn't cut it.
   545. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:35 PM (#5600417)
So instead of doing the right thing, forcing the evil person off their label, and maybe losing, the R's chose to go all in on the evil person wearing a big scarlet R. And lost anyway.

The only relevant question is whether anything the GOP did in AL for the December 2017 election is going to harm them going forward. I'm not sure that it will (i.e., they didn't really damage the brand for 2018, at least not in the age of DJT). As such, it's hard to fault them for how they played a very bad hand.

That's not to say Moore isn't deplorable. But the GOP really didn't have any good options other than to try to do what they could to keep it away from the Democrat.
   546. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5600418)
Most of the people here are well educated, that alone predicts mostly liberal leanings, does it not? Sample bias. Go check Breitbart or /theDonald -- they might have more of what you're looking for Ray.
   547. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5600420)
Most of the people here are well educated, that alone predicts mostly liberal leanings, does it not? Sample bias. Go check Breitbart or /theDonald -- they might have more of what you're looking for Ray.

We're also almost entirely male and mostly white, which predicts more conservative leanings.
   548. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5600421)
Thank you, dlf. My sister was almost always happy, & she made everyone around her almost always happy, too.

All things considered, I'm not sure anyone could hope for a better legacy.
   549. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5600422)
But tell us again, Andy, how the lefties posting here don't massively outnumber the right/libertarians.

It also depends on the topic. When it comes to Trump, virtually no sane person defends him, which I suppose makes all of his attackers either liberals or part of the Deep State, with the one exception of David. (And come to think of it, Deep State is probably how TGF and OJ would label him.)

And yet change the topic to Hillary Clinton, and how many people here have really defended her in any ways beyond "she isn't Trump", other than me, the Rodent, and maybe half a dozen others? (And even the Rodent never seemed to embrace her in anything other than pragmatic terms.)

Talk about speech codes, and how many hard core "liberals" do you find around here, given that in your mind "liberals" are all in favor of them?

You love to play these labeling games, but all you're doing is trying to put scores of round pegs into square holes solely to advance your little talking point.
   550. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5600423)
Poor, poor lonely trumpkins.

Fact is that there are four Trumpkins - SBB, Ray, Clapper, and JE... two occasional Trumpkins in TGF and Perros.... and all the sane people of varied stripe, the majority of whom may well be lefties - but Trumpkins vs sane people is the easiest and most descriptive shorthand.
   551. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5600425)
Andy, when I said "tell us again," I didn't actually need you to tell us.

Your contention that the lefties here don't massively outnumber the others combined is preposterous.
   552. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5600427)
We're also almost entirely male and mostly white, which predicts more conservative leanings.


We are obviously the most important focus group going forward and should be carefully studied.
   553. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5600428)
Back to Breaking Badbannon....

It appears the WH is gonna go with \"##### set us up!"
   554. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5600429)
Fact is that there are four Trumpkins - SBB, Ray, Clapper, and JE... two occasional Trumpkins in TGF and Perros.... and all the sane people of varied stripe, the majority of whom may well be lefties - but Trumpkins vs sane people is the easiest and most descriptive shorthand.


"Trumpkins" vs. TDSers, however interesting that breakdown may be, doesn't get at the left/right divide.

If it did, David would be a liberal. But nobody sane thinks he is.

In fact David is pretty much the only hard/loud anti-Trumper here who *isn't* liberal.
   555. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5600431)
If you disagree with my list, let me know and if the disagreement is valid I'll reclassify.
What do you mean by "lefty"? I'm certainly not a registered Democrat. Even in Washington State I've voted a mix of R and D up and down the ticket over the years, and McMullin last year. I'm a bit left of center socially, and a bit right economically.

And Trump is a pathetic hot mess lying sack. Which has nothing to do with any of the former.
   556. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5600432)
Simply saying "Oh, "thinking Trump is a pathetic hot mess <> lefty", or "I love some of those names you put in some of those categories" doesn't cut it.

Translation: You think that someone who spends 99% of his OTP energy attacking "modern liberals", and attacking any attempt to investigate Trump's ties to Russia----can't be classified in the Conservative category.

Of course SBB's no more of a genuine conservative than Donald Trump; "batshit insane and seething with resentments" would be a more precise label. But it's funny how both of them spend so much time attacking liberals.
   557. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5600433)
In fact David is pretty much the only hard/loud anti-Trumper here who *isn't* liberal.

Another way of putting that might be to say that David is the only hard/loud anti-liberal around here who's demonstrated the simple talent of looking at Trump and seeing him for what he is, and then drawing the obvious conclusion from that insight. As opposed to all the bogus "#NeverTrumpers" who expend most of their current energy defending him against all comers and trying to change the subject to the Sins of Hillary Clinton.
   558. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5600434)
Translation: You think that someone who spends 99% of his OTP energy attacking "modern liberals", and attacking any attempt to investigate Trump's ties to Russia----can't be classified in the Conservative category.


I guess in order to more properly classify SBB we could have a separate category for classic liberals and leftists. Then we could put SBB in the former and argue who in the amorphous lefty blob also is also a member of the former. Nobody jumps out though; everyone in the ALB seems to be leftist; that's simply where the Democratic party is right now.
   559. Lassus Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:55 PM (#5600435)
Any thoughts on that text or other WWII recommendations?

For another singular perspective, I've heard good things about BLITZED: Drugs in the Third Reich by Norman Ohler.
   560. Shredder Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:55 PM (#5600436)
There's a lot of variation within the Amorphous Lefty Blob.
I'm actually quite morphous, really.
Thank you, dlf. My sister was almost always happy, & she made everyone around her almost always happy, too.

All things considered, I'm not sure anyone could hope for a better legacy.
My condolences, gef. I'm not really sure what else to say, but our first child, due in just over seven weeks, is T21 positive. Definitely going to be a challenge, but we're fairly well prepared, and of course the resources available for early intervention and education are certainly a lot better than they were when your sister was born. We plan to do all we can to make sure he has as normal and productive a life as possible.
   561. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:57 PM (#5600438)
You see us as you want to see us - in the simplest terms, in the most convenient definitions. But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain, an athlete, a basket case, a princess, and a criminal.
   562. dlf Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5600439)
Wishing your family the best Shredder. It won't be easy for any of you, but here is hoping that the pleasures far, far outweigh the burdens.
   563. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5600440)
My condolences, gef. I'm not really sure what else to say, but our first child, due in just over seven weeks, is T21 positive. Definitely going to be a challenge, but we're fairly well prepared, and of course the resources available for early intervention and education are certainly a lot better than they were when your sister was born. We plan to do all we can to make sure he has as normal and productive a life as possible.


My condolences to Gef also.

And good luck and best wishes to Shredder's child and to the whole family (though I realize he won't see this).
   564. Lassus Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:02 PM (#5600444)
#561: I laughed.
   565. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:03 PM (#5600445)
Just to take one of the more obvious examples, when someone spends 99% of his time here railing against "modern liberals", I doubt if too many people would classify him only as "Sui Generis" . . .

Sugar Bear is a gun-grabbing, soda-taxing, Mike Bloomberg-admiring liberal. That he apparently doesn't think much of many liberals of slightly different stripes is perhaps an oddity, but it doesn't remove him from the liberal camp*.

*Unless you folks have secretly excommunicated him, in which case I stand corrected.
   566. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:11 PM (#5600449)
But tell us again, Andy, how the lefties posting here don't massively outnumber the right/libertarians.
I'm more centrist/technocrat than anything, although I've been tacking left as I get older. In principle I generally identify with (l)ibertarians but many of the (l) positions are bound up in orthodoxy and just don't make sense/can't be implemented/are massively inefficient and wasteful.

I'm definitely anti-R at this point, since it's really hard to even consider supporting a party that abhors science the way the R's do. But that doesn't make me pro-D. I'm happy to hate on anyone that deserves to be hated on. It's just that the recent R policies and candidates have been so bad and so incredibly easy to make fun of that I don't blame you for thinking I'm a blobbist.
   567. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5600450)
classic liberals


neo-liberal policy is often troublesome to me, but far less so than the republican party in general and reagan/bush jr/trump in specific. i'm not sure who these "classic liberals" are but if stretchy is any indication they are often denigrating things like PC culture and come off seeming like bigots. i do NOT want to be put into that bag.
   568. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5600451)
So instead of doing the right thing, forcing the evil person off their label, and maybe losing, the R's chose to go all in on the evil person wearing a big scarlet R. And lost anyway.

The premise that there was a legal way to involuntarily remove a nominee from the ballot is incorrect.
   569. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:18 PM (#5600452)
Mike Bloomberg-admiring liberal


Purity tests are the most noxious outcome of the two party system. Bloomberg isn't a liberal and I'd have a hard time classifying anybody who admires him politically as a liberal as well.

   570. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:21 PM (#5600453)
I'm definitely anti-R at this point, since it's really hard to even consider supporting a party that abhors science the way the R's do. But that doesn't make me pro-D. I'm happy to hate on anyone that deserves to be hated on. It's just that the recent R policies and candidates have been so bad and so incredibly easy to make fun of that I don't blame you for thinking I'm a blobbist.

Third all but the last clause. I do blame him for not seeing or acknowledging nuance. Voted W both times (whoops), grew up on conservative blogs in the early to mid aughts and was a Drudge-a-holic. But...things change and DONALD TRUMP IS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
   571. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:21 PM (#5600454)
The premise that there was a legal way to involuntarily remove a nominee from the ballot is incorrect.
They couldn't get him off the ballot, but they could have formally withdrawn the nomination. Votes for him would have not counted. link
If the party were to formally withdraw Moore's nomination, his name would still appear on the ballot. State law says that someone can only be added or replaced on a ballot 76 days prior to an election.

If Moore were to still win the most votes, his election would be a scratch. He would not be allowed to take a seat in the Senate because the state would not certify his election. (The Alabama secretary of state's office has confirmed this to NPR.)

The Senate would consider Moore's credentials to not be in order.

A new special election would be called. The governor would have to call one "forthwith," which is vague. All that means is quickly and within a reasonable time frame to be able to pull one off, but it's open to Ivey's interpretation.

   572. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:25 PM (#5600455)
There's a lot of variation within the Amorphous Lefty Blob.


That's because Ray doesn't know anything about political theory, political philosophy, or nuanced breakdowns of positions and schools of thought. Hell, he thinks he's a libertarian, for chrissakes.

David is a doctrinaire legalistic libertarian.

I'm a left-wing libertarian/social anarchist.

Ray is a know-nothing populist.

TGF is a far right reactionary-authoritarian.

Jason is a reactionary right winger who tries to convince people that he's not.

SBB is a 70's era, former communist-professor type who would rationally be in the "liberal" camp.

Ray's misuse of "classic(al) liberalism" is one of his greater tells for how little he actually knows about anything related to political theory. Most libertarians of David's ilk would describe themselves as "classical liberals" when people point out that they are, more often than not, water carriers for authoritarians and theocrats.

Andy is probably the most down the line, old-school, crusading Democratic liberal we have. Mouse hues pretty close to the standard DLC liberal line too.

Bivins is a pretty standard fare labor focused liberal.

Lassus is a social liberal certainly.

I have 6-4-3 in the conservative camp, mostly. It's hard, as people noted already, because the American right has become so far unbalanced toward reactionary fascism that the terms have a hard time holding onto their proper meaning.
   573. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:27 PM (#5600457)
I have 6-4-3 in the conservative camp, mostly. It's hard, as people noted already, because the American right has become so far unbalanced toward reactionary fascism that the terms have a hard time holding onto their proper meaning.

Wait, how the hell am I in the conservative camp? I'd go with moderate, independent, or maybe unclassified. But conservative?
   574. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:27 PM (#5600458)
I have 6-4-3 in the conservative camp, mostly


I thought strikeouts were fascist and ground balls were democratic.
   575. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:27 PM (#5600459)
Purity tests are the most noxious outcome of the two party system. Bloomberg isn't a liberal and I'd have a hard time classifying anybody who admires him politically as a liberal as well.


True, but the description of SBB with or without the "liberal" tag is correct. He's an authoritarian who wants a mother-state looking over the population at all times. He is absolutely Bloomberg-ian in that way, and his hatred of "modern liberals" is precisely that the Dems and the "left" in America has moved off of his preferred authoritarian platforms over the years.
   576. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5600461)
Also, just as a reminder, in addition to being an authoritarian Bloombergian, SBB is also a spineless coward.
   577. Omineca Greg Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:32 PM (#5600462)
I like "The Gregs", that's awesome. Greg D. and Greg K. are both historians, Greg K. and Omineca Greg are both Canadians...makes it tough for people I guess...

I don't know how unclassifiable I am, my kids made me take an on-line quiz, and it turns out I'm unequivocally "Ravenclaw On The Streets and Hufflepuff In The Sheets", to which I responded, quite naturally enough, "What the #### does that mean?!". They assured me that in fact that was the best combination, but I did some research, and I'm not so sure. I think they were humouring me.
   578. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:33 PM (#5600463)
Just to take one of the more obvious examples, when someone spends 99% of his time here railing against "modern liberals", I doubt if too many people would classify him only as "Sui Generis" . . .

Sugar Bear is a gun-grabbing, soda-taxing, Mike Bloomberg-admiring liberal. That he apparently doesn't think much of many liberals of slightly different stripes is perhaps an oddity, but it doesn't remove him from the liberal camp*.


And yet on the major issues that spur the most hardline partisan splits---Trump / Russia, immigration and racial identity politics in general---he comes solidly down on the side of the Trumps and the Bannons. Being in favor of soda taxes, denouncing the Redskins name, and favoring some form of gun control doesn't change that.

And again, what people and groups does he spend nearly all of his time attacking? He's got resentments up the wazoo, and the people he resents the most are the ones he calls "modern liberals".

Oh, and how many other liberals have you met who try to defend French colonialism? On that issue he's about as liberal as the late William F. Buckley, Jr.
   579. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:34 PM (#5600464)
Wait, how the hell am I in the conservative camp? I'd go with moderate, independent, or maybe unclassified. But conservative?


Let me quote myself for a second:

It's hard, as people noted already, because the American right has become so far unbalanced toward reactionary fascism that the terms have a hard time holding onto their proper meaning.


To clarify, if I were to ask you to choose one of the four positions, which would you choose?

1. I believe change is both good, and immediately necessary.

2. I believe change is inevitable, and generally good, and we should manage that change in a manner that benefits society.

3. I believe change is potentially dangerous, and we should manage what change that comes in a way as to limit it's impact as much as possible.

4. I believe change is bad, we have lost our way, and we should take immediate steps to return to our previous proper state.
   580. Lassus Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:35 PM (#5600465)
Lassus is a social liberal certainly.

I wouldn't shy away from any of the classic liberal definitions of me.

Like anyone old I generally think the kid liberals are fucking things up, sometimes a lot, sometime a little. I also like to (properly) make fun of irritating, Park Slope/Portland Brooklyn Co-op liberals and tenured idiot reactionary Progressives. Hell, one of my closest friends from college described her inability to get her beach-house remodeled in time a first-world problem. No, J, not being able to get the brand of ketchup you like at the grocery store is a first-world problem, not a 4-day delay on your beach house. I know an art professor convinced that Obama is the devil and he instead knows best how to deal with the race problem in America ("treat people equal!").

Ultimately, I am what I seem to be, though. (Outside of over-reach criticisms, I differ a bit by being a hard-on-crime liberal as well, with very little sympathy for non-reactionary lawbreakers, as well as police.)
   581. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:36 PM (#5600466)
He's an authoritarian who wants a mother-state looking over the population at all times.
Really? I thought he was a single issue (pro-life) whore who supports whatever party is trying to achieve his objective (currently the R's), memorizes and recites whatever random talking points they present, and occasionally gets bored and posts remarkably bad economic ideas to troll for responses from folks.
   582. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:36 PM (#5600467)

To clarify, if I were to ask you to choose one of the four positions, which would you choose?

1. I believe change is both good, and immediately necessary.

2. I believe change is inevitable, and generally good, and we should manage that change in a manner that benefits society.

3. I believe change is potentially dangerous, and we should manage what change that comes in a way as to limit it's impact as much as possible.

4. I believe change is bad, we have lost our way, and we should take immediate steps to return to our previous proper state.

#2
   583. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:37 PM (#5600469)
"Ravenclaw On The Streets and Hufflepuff In The Sheets"


This is definitely NOT the best possible combination.
   584. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:38 PM (#5600470)
#2


Okay, then you'd be classically liberal. My bad.
   585. DJS Holiday-Related Pun Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:38 PM (#5600471)
Ray, I'm a libertarian too. A geolibertarian technically, but no need to split the hairs too much.
   586. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:40 PM (#5600473)
I don't know how unclassifiable I am,

All I know about you is that you tell the best stories of anyone around here. I'm still cracking up about those counterfeit George Brett baseball gloves. In another life and with a slight twist you could've been either Saki** or George Herriman.

** As in, for example, The Unrest Cure
   587. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:48 PM (#5600477)
You can tell our Little Lord is befuddled by the complexity of the Big World when he has me buried with the rest of you hippies. Far out, man.

“Peace, love, and don’t make me kick your ass.”
   588. Hysterical & Useless Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:51 PM (#5600478)
My condolences, gef. I'm not really sure what else to say


Back in the auld sod I believe the usual thing to say is "I'm sorry for your trouble." And I am.


As for the classification business, I guess I'm unclassifiable because I try very hard not to throw my worthless opinions in (overflowing with them though I am). Thing is, I'm not all that fond of arguing (though it's a great spectator sport!); I like all of you whom I've met, and am pollyanna-ish enough to assume that I'd like the rest of you too if we were to meet. So why fight about stupid stuff? I'd rather have Greg K educate me about 17th century Britain, or OG regale me with his tales of life out in the back of beyond. Or chat about movies.

Night all.
   589. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:56 PM (#5600479)
Mouse hues pretty close to the standard DLC liberal line too.


Meh. When the DLC was a thing I was not a huge fan. I am nearly as socially liberal as it is possible to be, I am reasonably fiscally conservative, but with a strong feeling that the wealthy can take care of their own, so I can freely advocate against them, knowing they have more than enough power without my voice.

Anyway in Ray's simple classification I am happily in the amorphous lefty blob. And I am also OK with the thought there are more lefty types here than conservatives, but so what? I don't know why that is any sort of problem.
   590. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 03, 2018 at 06:59 PM (#5600482)
2. I believe change is inevitable, and generally good, and we should manage that change in a manner that benefits society.


Yeah. This is me.
   591. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 07:03 PM (#5600484)
1. is radically left (aka "revolutionary")

2. is liberalism

3. is conservatism

4. is radically right (aka "reactionary")

The problem with discourse on this subject in 2017 America is that the American right is nearly universally reactionary, to the point that the vanguard "far right" is now actually fascist. The right wing has been so successful at moving the Overton window further and further rightward at every tilt that basic run of the mill liberalism is labeled "socialism" or "communism" these days. It's just another way in which you people are generally ####### idiots.
   592. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: January 03, 2018 at 07:04 PM (#5600485)
I am nearly as socially liberal as it is possible to be, I am reasonably fiscally conservative, but with a strong feeling that the wealthy can take care of their own, so I can freely advocate against them, knowing they have more than enough power without my voice.

I'd subscribe to your newsletter.

The fact of the matter is that, at least at this point in time, the Democrats are the party for fiscal responsibility. That hasn't always been the case and it may not be in the future. But, at least in 2018, a vote for a Democrat is a vote for a more balanced budget.

And yes that absolutely means raising taxes on Ray. Sorry, buddy.
   593. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 07:05 PM (#5600486)
Oh. Perros is so in love with the idea of being a radical leftist/revolutionary that he's wrapped himself around the back of the circle to fully embrace the reactionary fascism of Trumpism. This is a thing that often happens in the deep fringes.
   594. manchestermets Posted: January 03, 2018 at 07:16 PM (#5600488)
Really? I thought he was a single issue (pro-life) whore who supports whatever party is trying to achieve his objective (currently the R's), memorizes and recites whatever random talking points they present, and occasionally gets bored and posts remarkably bad economic ideas to troll for responses from folks.


That sounds more (but not exactly) like snapper than anyone else, certainly more than SBB.

What is DLC in this context? Google gives me only downloadable content, and a British debt collection company.

Also, as a UK lefty, the idea that anything in mainstream US politics is "lefty" amuses me greatly. I mean, if I was a USian I'd no doubt vote Democrat as a rule, but only as the best of a bad lot.
   595. BDC Posted: January 03, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5600489)
Do Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff have any character notes except not being Gryffindor or Slytherin?
   596. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: January 03, 2018 at 07:27 PM (#5600490)
Ravenclaw are the sorority girls who put on black and go dancing at goth clubs, but are scared of actual goths.

Hufflepuff supplied the campus with weed.
   597. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 03, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5600491)
Mouse hues pretty close to the standard DLC liberal line too.


Certain mouse hues are quite pretty indeed. Agouti is one of my favorites. But I'm not at all sure what that has to do with the Democratic Leadership Council.
   598. Howie Menckel Posted: January 03, 2018 at 07:42 PM (#5600493)
Thank you, dlf. My sister was almost always happy, & she made everyone around her almost always happy, too.

All things considered, I'm not sure anyone could hope for a better legacy.

absolutely. I have a 30-year-old nephew with Down Syndrome, and he has helped all of us in the family become better people.

if I didn't have this experience, trust me that I would find it impossible to believe, too. one of those things where you just have to "be there."

He's part of the reason why family get-togethers are always so peaceful. it's hard to work up a head of steam about some ridiculously minor slight when you get "distracted" from it by someone who just wants a hug or a high-five, or to show you some YouTube videos (passengers making videos from airplanes is a recent fave).

Shredder, my experience as an uncle is but a tiny commonality to your journey, obviously. but I know enough now to say that with all the challenges, you'll also be surprised that there are different, unexpected joys as well.

SPOILER ALERT FOR 25 YEARS FROM NOW: Fellow mothers who are friends with your wife will struggle mightily to try to explain that they are almost, well, kinda, not really but kinda little bit jealous that she has one that isn't leaving the nest - and one who still delights in the umpteenth showing of "Toy Story," and who never stops being enthralled by visits to Disneyland (not to mention how many parents practically "hate" their kids for a period of their obnoxious teenage phase - but not you).

Godspeed....
   599. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 03, 2018 at 08:01 PM (#5600495)
Being Canadian pretty much guarantees that I'd be listed as part of the "lefty blob" for Ray, even if I was a parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party of Canada
   600. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: January 03, 2018 at 08:09 PM (#5600496)
I guess I don't post enough to get classified. Vote D more than R, but most ballots I've cast have included at least one vote for a Republican. Sleepy's 566 is roughly in line with my views.

But I'll readily acknowledge that the current president is human garbage, completely unqualified in every way to hold public office at any level. So I assume Ray would add me to the blob.
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